Huge time skips. Adding brand new characters to be the main character for each new season. It ruined any sense of continuity between seasons beyond the broad strokes, and caused massive cast bloat.
>Adding brand new characters to be the main character for each new season.
That's an overstatement, I only watched up to S2 but in that season I only remember Blue Beetle having a consistent role, the rest were one-off characters taking turns
Fricking awful
Not just timeskips but the fact that major character development happens during those timeskips.
More like an every season problem since each one has a time skip.
Timeskips
Why do people complain so much about time skips in this show when aside from S1-2, most of them were a year at most and nothing important happened in between?
Because season 2 is "nostalgic", so all of its flaws and weaknesses are blamed on the newer seasons instead. See also: The Light "always winning", even though that was more common in the first two seasons.
>The Light "always winning"
..Why are you trying so hard to downplay this? >even though that was more common in the first two seasons
And your point is? They're still always gonna be one step above the heroes when it all boils down. It's okay for season one since it's literally the first season; not so much for the other seasons when it's only really improved to "the Light loses a little bit now".
Seriously. Seasons 3 and 4 might as well been the same era. And the tease with the magic bus running into Barda essentially tells us the next season would've taken place a few months after season 4, probably not long after Targets.
Because the first timeskip probably destroyed the show, and even if S2>S3>S4 weren't that long apart chronologically, the characters/roster usually had huge changes between seasons
>nothing important happened in between
A lot of stuff happened between the time skips according to the comics and according to throwaway comments in the show. The stuff that happened during the timeskips sounds more interesting than some of the stories that they chose to tell onscreen.
No, it really wasn't.
Season One relies very heavily on telling you rather than showing. Like how Aqualad says Robin is "Destined to be the leader" and the payoff is that he's just suddenly the leader after a time skip.
And the characters weren't really characters so much as a collection of catchphrases. Their interpersonal relationships were likewise telegraphed so heavily that it wasn't very entertaining to watch.
Now having said all that I can see how if this was your first show of this sort these flaws wouldn't be as obvious.
I'd say Gravity Falls was easily more successful, Rick and Morty too, easily. Whatever Simpsons season that came out in that decade, despite being ugh, still pulled better numbers. Steven Universe even in the shittier seasons pulled bigger numbers. How many is that? 4? Well shit then maybe it makes it to the top 10, but not because of quality but due to lack of participants.
Congrats, anon. Your shit got the participation award.
>Like how Aqualad says Robin is "Destined to be the leader" and the payoff is that he's just suddenly the leader after a time skip.
I always thought that was funny since seasons 2 and 3 showed that Dick was falling into the same flaws that Bruce had, so he had to step back from leadership. Almost like Kaldur was wrong about Dick.
The show did felt odd in how it flip-flopped between being a teen team and being a justice league stealth op team. Why would you use your inexperienced teens for stealth?
It turns out Weisman unchained results in him stuffing the show with pointless bullshit like non-binary alien muslims and low effort allegories for real life racism. Just like most "genius" creators, he worked better when he had people to rein in his bad ideas.
More accurately, why would you refuse to gayify it in a way teenage girls love? Nobody gives a shit about a computer woman's fake sexuality or a fat guy kissing someone who isn't part of a relevant ship.
Bart and Eduardo could've been that, but DC apparently got weird about Bart being portrayed as gay, so the most they get is a superfast kiss on the cheek.
Male and male scares execs too much. Computer woman's fake sexuality is far more palatable, and allows you to get those diversity points without actually pushing any boat out.
Teenage girls love the hint that close bonds of friendship and camaraderie may lead to them going off for some gay sex or becoming a couple.
Think Solid Snake and Otacon.
Tim Drake coming out ultimately sunk any interest most teenage girls and women would have for him. Most actually find gay men off-putting if not disgusting. It's why in most ships the character 'isn't that way' but they have a singular homosexual attraction to another character. By the way, a lot of gay men find straight men or straight-acting men more attractive.
Plus, DC shipped him with worst guy.
>Tim Drake coming out ultimately sunk any interest most teenage girls and women would have for him. Most actually find gay men off-putting if not disgusting.
Keep lying, moron.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Brokebank Mountain, where two straight men cheat on their wives, was successful. Bros, about two gay men steeped in Western gay culture, was not.
You can't capture a female audience with the main characters being explicitly gay. You need that will they or won't they tension.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The other anon's right about the tension towards a getting together or what looks like tension tends to get more eyeballs and hunger than an established relationship most of the time. Not 100% of the time, but the 'safe' bet is milking and building the tension as long as possible for attention. Lots of romance related stories end shortly after the official getting together for a reason
From what I saw it was the usual Greg Wiesman shit: >nothing substantial ever happens besides relationship drama >constant cast shuffling >villains are somehow always one step ahead, meaning the heroes hardly ever accomplish anything >character conflicts about moronic morals while the bad guys get away with their deeds
Vandal Savage PowerPoint presentation against Lord of Chaos and Orders does feel unearned after he running away in the first place especially with how hard Zee and the other magician fighting the Child. It's look like Greg Weissman afraid to make him look bad
I think this is one of those moments that works better with voice acting. Kaldur doesn't say anything too bad, but he probably was meant to sound pissed off enough to rattle Lex.
A lot of anons said that they stopped watching somewhere around that arc.
I was indifferent to most of it, but Dr. Fate stopping by to see Vandal seethe was good. The final two arcs were more fun.
So many things... >Entire arcs happening in timeskips >Overbloated, underdeveloped cast >Writers are Megangays >Light losing focus in a way that makes most of its members interchangeable, making them even more boring than in season 1 >Lack of direction >More detailed art style starting in season 3, making the animation overall worse and stiff >Constant promise of Darkseid being fought and never delivering >Writers are Vandalgays >Both ends of bad pacing (Too fast in season 2 and 3, too slow in season 4) >Seasons 2 and 3 repeated a lot of plot beats with Dick and Kaldur'ahm >butthole characters constantly get rewarded for being buttholes (That includes heroes like M'gann, Dick and Kaldur'ahm) >Static being the best thing in season 2 then loses all spotlight >Characters constantly being randomly mute in episodes, season 3's finale had Halo and Forager mute despite how little sense it makes for them to not comment on Geo Force's actions
And other things I forgot about...
And then he comes back at the end out of nowhere to get the Kryptonians from Phantom Zone.
>Dick didn't get any character development after S1.
He ended up falling into the Batman-like habits that he swore to avoid as a teen, then removed himself from leadership once he ensured the right people were placed in order. Also, he had a mini-arc with him refusing to help Brion and Violet because he was still grieving Wally.
>Kaldur didn't get any character development after S2.
This is true in season three beyond keeping the Anti-Light's secrets, but season four had him actually stop bottling up his feelings and throwing himself into his work to avoid dealing with them. I don't think the execution was great, but they did do something new with his character.
I'll always find it funny that Dick wants to avoid being like Batman in season 1, when season 1 makes Batman into a surprisingly nice, if strict guy, it's to the point that the bullshit Dick pulls in season 2 look like they were done by him first, and then Batman copied them in season 3.
Kaldur'ahm's character development in season 4 is a cool idea, but it's execution is basically everyone else saying that he must be sad, and then he's out of focus for most of his arc, then it ends with him admitting he's sad... Meanwhile pet characters like Megan and Artemis (Although Artemis is way less bad) get most of the development, again.
It's why I consider the ending of Targets to be the true ending of the show (for now), which it technically is since it takes place post-season 4. The Wally flashback was also icing on the cake
Increasingly bloated cast and unbalanced focus killed it for me. Also, the fact that the villains always pulled muh keikaku continuously got old pretty fast.
Legit, this is one of those relationships where we wouldn't be hearing the end of it if the roles were reversed as M'gann was literally grooming Conner.
There's also the age gap issue. When she met him, she was 48 Earth years old and he was only 6 months old because he had been grown in the cloning pod.
Except they do at various points. Or are you talking about a permanent defeat? That's not going to happen. The entire show revolves around the war between The Light and Apokolips. They're not seasonal Big Bads like The Reach, Granny Goodness or the House of Zod were.
>Whelmed >Aster >That cackle
Was S1 YJ the best Robin cartoon adaptation ever?
Young Justice > The Batman > Teen Titans > Batman: BatB > >TTGo > Batman TAS
There was a LOSH in the early 2000s but it didn't seemed to be connected to the JLU spinoff. The only time it seems to get discussed around here though is because of Phantom Girl or very occasionally Superboy/Brainiac shippers.
>Huge timeskips that don't fricking help anything and just introduce new characters that nobody gives a frick about. Season 1 ended with wondering where the league disappeared to for a few hours and season 2 starts with a 5 year jump? The frick is that >Losing the fricking purpose of the team being young and inexperienced by season 2. They were a team of sidekicks that got the shit beat out of them by every adult villain even if they were fricking C-Tier. Why the frick are they dealing with Justice league villains now it makes no sense. >Weisman fricking saying that the show has no end in sight and is just supposed to go on until it gets cancelled. Does he want it to be a fricking soap opera? Fricking have an end goal in mind and work towards it
>Huge timeskips that don't fricking help anything and just introduce new characters that nobody gives a frick about. Season 1 ended with wondering where the league disappeared to for a few hours and season 2 starts with a 5 year jump? The frick is that
They literally answered this in the first episode of season 2 >Losing the fricking purpose of the team being young and inexperienced by season 2. They were a team of sidekicks that got the shit beat out of them by every adult villain even if they were fricking C-Tier. Why the frick are they dealing with Justice league villains now it makes no sense.
The purpose of "The Team" was to be the League's cover ops unit, and do their dirty work in stealth >Weisman fricking saying that the show has no end in sight and is just supposed to go on until it gets cancelled. Does he want it to be a fricking soap opera? Fricking have an end goal in mind and work towards it
The Light is a recurring threat that send belligerents like the Reach and Apokoliptians to fight the League, All of which had their arcs and endings. You might not like it but this is how comics work.
>The purpose of "The Team" was to be the League's cover ops unit, and do their dirty work in stealth
This was always fricking dumb >Yeah Batman's sidekick, Aquaman's successor, the kid wearing a flash emblem, the kid wearing a superman S, and a martian? They're totally unaffiliated with the Justice League. Why would you think otherwise?
The people The Team was hiding from was the public writ large. The Light caught onto the fact that this specific group of vigilantes were targeting them .. well operating against them inside of three weeks.
The cast expanded beyond the show's ability to use the new characters or continue the story arcs of the old ones. The creators probably thought they could emulate JLU, but failed entirely.
>Never bring back Wally who was the best character
I binged the whole series in one go and holy frick it felt like they would flip between confirming he was dead and everyone needed to move on to teasing bringing him back constantly, it was maddening.
Having a large cast is fine, but everyone needs a reason to be there and everyone needs their time to shine. If you have a huge cast that's hyperfocused on a handful of shitty characters (Halo, etc.) while all of the characters everyone actually wants to see are basically just standing around in group scenes with no lines and no real relevance to the story, then that becomes a problem.
I guess it doesn't get to me because I don't consider a lot of the additions to be main characters. The show consistently focuses on the original members (Dick, Kaldur, Artemis, M'gann, and Conner) with everyone else either having relevancy for the arc (Blue Beetle, Impulse, Halo, Geo-Force, Cyborg, Beast Boy, the LoSH) or just being bit players and cameos. Everyone for some reason expected the show to flesh out literally every new member instead of treating them as the minor characters they are.
I remember when season 3 was coming out, people were actually pissed off that Batwoman made a cameo as a JL member who quit, since they thought it was ANOTHER legit character to focus on and not just a cameo that aids the world-building.
Dick didn't get any character development after S1. He's a plot device there to set up the Batman Gambit that helps the team pull through and save the day.
Kaldur didn't get any character development after S2. Once they moved him to the League he was a secondary character at best.
Artemis, Megan, and Connor were the main three, but even they were taking a back seat to Beetle and Halo in S2 and 3.
>Dick didn't get any character development after S1.
He ended up falling into the Batman-like habits that he swore to avoid as a teen, then removed himself from leadership once he ensured the right people were placed in order. Also, he had a mini-arc with him refusing to help Brion and Violet because he was still grieving Wally.
>Kaldur didn't get any character development after S2.
This is true in season three beyond keeping the Anti-Light's secrets, but season four had him actually stop bottling up his feelings and throwing himself into his work to avoid dealing with them. I don't think the execution was great, but they did do something new with his character.
It's kinda divisive with it. With the large casts the show really feel crowded, unlike JLU which clear with its 7 main characters. Perhaps it's because the poster for season 3 that highlighting the Outsider, so folks got angry as they want the original team back then
Yeah, the marketing for Outsiders was pretty baffling. They even included Katana and Metamorpho and made it seem like they were major characters instead of just supporting heroes for Batman's solo mission in Santa Prisca.
>put static in the show >do literally nothing with him >literally set up him being mentored by black lightning and then get rid of it at the start of the next season
What the frick happened here?
I think that is the problem. The show look promising so much more than they can handle. I see YJ fans are usually consisting of OG team members fans or other character fans that want their character got a spotlight. Well unlike JLU or lets say Game of Thrones with similarity of handling lot of characters and plots, YJ have a hard time to give satisfying contents for all the fans
1 year ago
Anonymous
I just think it was really odd to set that up and even have Black Lightning as a main character next season and just not follow up on him mentoring Virgil.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm certain the reason why Black Lightning was a major character in S3 was because the season was called Outsiders and they didn't want the season to be completely divorced from the comic version.
Which just makes their decision of naming (essentially) the Johns' Teen Titans the Outsiders even weirder. i feel like they were just doing subversion for the sake of subversion there.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I heard there was some mandate to have Black Lightning as a main character but I don't know how much validity there is to that.
Having a large cast is fine, but everyone needs a reason to be there and everyone needs their time to shine. If you have a huge cast that's hyperfocused on a handful of shitty characters (Halo, etc.) while all of the characters everyone actually wants to see are basically just standing around in group scenes with no lines and no real relevance to the story, then that becomes a problem.
I don't know I feel like JLU is a show that has 12 major characters.
The Original 7: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Hawkgirl, Green Lantern, J'onn.
A promotion for Supergirl, then the new group of inductees that constantly feature: Green Arrow, Black Canary, Huntress, Question, Vixen and maybe Zatanna on the outside and 45 reoccuring walk ons.
But weirdly it isn't like characters get very personal spotlights and expand their social webs. Like Vigilante is hanging out with Atom Smasher and Shining Knight all the time, and Patriot Act contrives to put him, Shining Knight, the duo of Stargirl and Stripe Green+Red Arrow, and the Crimson Avenger as an homage to the Seven Soldiers of Victory... but I think from the lack of acknowledgement it's clear that they weren't previously operating as an interdependent team of seven heroes in the canon of Justice League. Admittedly just from the lack of self-recognition and the crew as a whole having no special cohesion. Heck Stargirl is only just finding out Vigilante has razzmatazz.
But it works because the aim of the show isn't to try to make sure we know how all 60 leaguers feel about one another and a splattering of villains. Hell half the "Unlimited" plot threads all stick on the Green Arrow + Question + Canary + Huntress clique. Sure some characters do develop. But... that's not universal. Vixen isn't gal-palling around with Fire and Ice the other superheroine supermodels. We don't see a random scene where The Ray and Booster Gold participate in a race for charity. They just fill their roles for the specific episodes they may be lucky to be credited as starring in, and participate in a few group action shots.
JLU did a really incredible job of having an overarching plot for the first season, but YJ is like the ultimate Vandal Savage scheme that plays out over several generations of heroes fighting seemingly random and unconnected plots. Most of the time, no one has any idea what is going on, and SEELE-style telemeetings where "everything is going according to plan" gets old.
I wish the GL show had survived instead.
1 year ago
Anonymous
How is Reddy the best no matter the incarnation, no matter who is writing him
1 year ago
Anonymous
He's like the Vision, except fun and no Wanda angst.
Beast Boy had more screentime than Wally overall. I'm fairly certain Gar is just one of Weisman's favourite characters so he kept giving him plotlines even when the plans for seasons 3 and 4 originally didn't include him at all.
Hell, the way his arc was going, it's pretty clear it was meant to end with him meeting Raven and "curing" his depression
I like beast boy but holy frick did we really need that long of a ptsd arc? They waste so much time on beast boy being sad and halo being gay/muslim that could have been spent on anything else
>Halo spent less than an episode "being gay/muslim" and everyone loses their mind. >M'gann has an identity crisis for multiple goddamn season and no one bats an eye.
You people are hypocrites.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>yeah well what about the other reason the show fell off a fricking cliff, huh HUH???!?1!
People gave a lot more shits about bobblemegan and the absolute cringe of the bald arc than the gay brown chick in the burkini. gay drama was as engaging as the forager species dynamics it wasn't and the only reason it didn't drag the show as heavily as Megan being worstgirl was its merciful irrelevance. In the bulk of the last few seasons the diversity characters got less than a line an episode; "And I'm her too" could be a literal quote from the muslim chick for how little anything she's ever done has mattered in the show.
Or maybe he's Vietti's. I do remember them saying that Beast Boy wasn't going to be in season 3 that much, but the whole plot with the Outsiders placed him as a natural leader of that team compared to other heroes.
I heard there was some mandate to have Black Lightning as a main character but I don't know how much validity there is to that.
I doubt it. He was being seeded throughout season 2 and even in the tie-in comic. This show sometimes introduces major characters in very minor roles.
And shit, I forgot to mention that Weisman is surprisingly strict when it comes to using favorites. Captain Atom doesn't really get much to do beyond some appearances in season 2 and a story in the tie-in comic. Black Canary is more prominent as a therapist, but I'd hardly call her a major character. Scarecrow's his favorite Batman villain, but we don't even have a hint he exists.
tried to be too edgy, hip, down with it, and at the same time try to show teens can be adults in super serious relationships/situations of life and death.
>kills one guy in the heat of the moment >entire team abandons him and refuses to contact him >motherbox gf doesn’t contact him for months, only to show up and call him a homosexual for trying to maintain a country and provide safe haven to metas >sister refuses to contact him and writes him off immediately, after he spent half his life trying to find and save her >he is also getting mind controlled the entire time
To be fair, he is the one who banished the team from Markovia the moment he killed Bedlam, and even if they're on better terms as of now, he's still enacting the banishment. And Halo did try to reach out to him, but the ambassador ruined that.
>kills one guy in the heat of the moment
The guy who just escaped from prison, said he would never stop trying to take over the kingdom/try to kill him. Somehow killing him in the spot is seen as the wrong choice.
>They tried to get me to not like the best character.
Most shows for some reason wouldn't bother to make him sound reasonable after his moment. He definitely did nothing wrong besides getting manipulated.
I'm really tired of the "one bad relationship now the character is gay" bullshit because there is no risk of it being reversed and becomes the end game relationship.
>What went wrong?
The writing was not nearly as strong as the writers thought it was. The teens did not sound or act like teens at all and came off more like mildly moronic adults. The relationships were all the height of cringe in different ways that the writers were all obviously very proud of. The cast started off fine then got too big and just kept fricking growing. Large blocks of time just glossed over where the various villains being on world domination apparently sat on their thumbs. The adult heroes were weak, ineffectual or absent. Characters had new personalities that did not fit them.
The show literally felt like someone wanted to do X-Men and were told to just erase the names and call it Young Justice. Not a terrible show but maybe the most disappointing DC series and it got way more fricking love from the studio than it deserved or ever earned and they squandered every opportunity they got.
This is pretty accurate although there is more positives and negatives than that. It is basically trying to speedrun the DCAU. The wokeness is an issue. Halo becoming Muslim goes against her character arc of not being defined by her host. Also, it is fricking moronic. Their reasoning to make Black Lightning the leader feels forced because the only thing that the "anti-Light" fricked up is with Brion and slept with a spy.
For a modern show, the good thing is that the character's skin color isn't an automatic sign on what the writers want me to feel about the character.
The writing was not nearly as strong as the writers thought it was. The teens did not sound or act like teens at all and came off more like mildly moronic adults. The relationships were all the height of cringe in different ways that the writers were all obviously very proud of. The cast started off fine then got too big and just kept fricking growing. Large blocks of time just glossed over where the various villains being on world domination apparently sat on their thumbs. The adult heroes were weak, ineffectual or absent. Characters had new personalities that did not fit them.
The show literally felt like someone wanted to do X-Men and were told to just erase the names and call it Young Justice. Not a terrible show but maybe the most disappointing DC series and it got way more fricking love from the studio than it deserved or ever earned and they squandered every opportunity they got.
the appeal of this kind of show is seeing the main cast interact and grow with each other which is largely facilitated by them being young heroes. When you get away from that it loses all of its appeal. Creating some shittier version of the justice league but more melodramatic and filled with heavy handed PSAs is just a bad direction to go in. This is without even getting to the actual substance of the ongoing plots which are nothing to write home about
Tbh season 3 ruined this series. The writers turned their back on the OG fans and then told them that “there is always fanfiction.” Greg Wiseman sounds like a tool.
I still don’t get the basic premise of the show, it just doesn’t feel like the JL to turn every kid and teen hero into essentially black ops soldiers. I don’t think even Batman at this worse would be ok with this in any other universe. And it’s such a shame because this was really the first universe to have almost entire access to the DC catalog apart from a few WW-related issues in S1 and this is how it turns out.
There's the toys: any DC comics show needs to sell merch. You've got an action figure line that has way too many female characters (3 versions of M'Gann, really?). They look cheaply made. There are too many characters. And you need more villains in the line.
Poor group dynamics, too much M'Gann, and too much Justice League. The time skips and shuffling of characters didn't do the show any favors, like some anons have said.
Weisman literally said there was no ending ever planned and that he intended to keep writing stories for as long as the show was renewed. Not having at least a rough idea of where things are going to end is a recipe for disaster for any serialized story. It leads to meandering and irrelevant fluff to waste time.
They do have specific ideas for developments and endings for certain story and character arcs. All Weisman was really saying is that there's not one singular ending that ties everything in a nice, neat bow. No final boss fight against Darkseid that results in an Earth free of villains and evil in general. Even if Apokolips or the Light's endgame was in the cards, there's always another villain or force to contend with.
This approach isn't unique to YJ. There's tons of shows that tend to write as they go with no definitive end in sight. Samurai Jack wasn't supposed to have a definitive ending and I'd argue trying to give it one led to disaster. Even the DCAU is still revisited via the Harley Quinn and Fatal Five movies or the newer B:TAS and Justice League Infinity comics. I think YJ just got a lot of flack for it due to those plans being VERY long-term and also fans feeling they need an ending because the show got brought back to life.
I forget the exact verbiage, but Greg Weisman tweeted that they had a "sensitivity consultant" or something like that who reviewed their scripts for S4 and he made it sound like it was a good thing. I couldn't believe what I was reading (pic related). That was when the series died to me. If a writer can't stand behind his or her work without it being filtered by the PC police, then their product isn't worth consuming.
>Jaime and Bart
were okay enough for their purpose but Jaime's personality pales so much in comparison to his 06 comics version and for me that's hard to look past for the focus character of the adapted Reach arc >Beast Boy
okay at first then annoying the more screentime he got >M'gann
annoying >Conner
sympathetic on his own but it's annoying that he's so tied and twisted around whatever M'gann is doing with her screentime >Halo
mega super annoying, never want to see another minute >Forager
kinda annoying but would be easily forgivable if he was the only annoying one >Lor Zod and co
actually worth their screentime, wow!
Several of the focus characters were just so blah to have to sit through and some others were used in ways that felt off or like too much of a reach to believe the justification of without suspension of disbelief cracking somewhere (like how Batgirl got paralyzed). I can handle the cons that comes with YJ's attempted format and annoying timeskipping but there's too many charmless characters that aren't worth a minutes of their alloted screentime. It's a bit like "death by a thousand small annoyances"
Season 1 was mostly old school cartoon fun with a bit of drama. Season 2 was a lot of drama. Season 3 was nothing but drama, and was basically a soap opera staring comic book characters.
>maybe it just felt too real and I pity parents who have to deal with that.
It's weird because I've seen two different responses. Some people praise it for being realistic and at the same time, other people people were saying that it was stereotypical and insulting to people who actually have autism because the child was literally having meltdowns and going "REEEEEEEEEEE!" in public.
This is where the show died. When the supervillains decided that actual supervillainy is a bridge too far and killed the one guy who was willing to do something to hurt the Heroes.
They had a good set up with the first season. Then season 2 where development is skipped, tons of stupid characters are introduced. Watchable but a complete waste of the original team.
The revival seasons are the worst with their weird tangents and autistic Deviant-tier exploration of 'mature' themes instead of just being entertaining, it was horrible. Oh shit the motherbox thinks she wants to be a Muslim and called a they who gives a frick man where Darkseid
There was some rights issues in the middle of the series production where they temporarily lost access to some of the Milestone characters and so a lot of those characters sort of disappeared for a while.
Huge time skips. Adding brand new characters to be the main character for each new season. It ruined any sense of continuity between seasons beyond the broad strokes, and caused massive cast bloat.
>Adding brand new characters to be the main character for each new season.
That's an overstatement, I only watched up to S2 but in that season I only remember Blue Beetle having a consistent role, the rest were one-off characters taking turns
Fricking awful
BTW half of those characters are basically gone by season 3
And nothing of value was lost
Although nothing of value was found either
What a series
This. It's why season one is by far the best.
If season one is the best one good thing I didn't bring myself to watch the other seasons.
Why do people complain so much about time skips in this show when aside from S1-2, most of them were a year at most and nothing important happened in between?
Because season 2 is "nostalgic", so all of its flaws and weaknesses are blamed on the newer seasons instead. See also: The Light "always winning", even though that was more common in the first two seasons.
>Because season 2 is "nostalgic"
What does this even mean? Season 2 was 70% trash. Literally every season after the first one is worthless.
>The Light "always winning"
..Why are you trying so hard to downplay this?
>even though that was more common in the first two seasons
And your point is? They're still always gonna be one step above the heroes when it all boils down. It's okay for season one since it's literally the first season; not so much for the other seasons when it's only really improved to "the Light loses a little bit now".
Seriously. Seasons 3 and 4 might as well been the same era. And the tease with the magic bus running into Barda essentially tells us the next season would've taken place a few months after season 4, probably not long after Targets.
Because the first timeskip probably destroyed the show, and even if S2>S3>S4 weren't that long apart chronologically, the characters/roster usually had huge changes between seasons
>nothing important happened in between
A lot of stuff happened between the time skips according to the comics and according to throwaway comments in the show. The stuff that happened during the timeskips sounds more interesting than some of the stories that they chose to tell onscreen.
Fricking this. Jason Todd happened and Tim was recruited entirely off screen.
Jason Todd has one story and DC has two feature-length animated films about it. Nobody wanted that shit shoved into Young Justice.
And a AAA video game.
Republicans decided they couldn't watch cartoons with black people in them anymore
Are the republicans in the room with us right now?
Jesus, you certainly love to make up shit. Then again, you are a liberal, so it checks out.
What about the black republicans?
They're pissed. Royally pissed.
Rent free
The problem is you guys convinced yourselves it was ever good.
>HELLO MEGAN
>ARE YOU WHELMED? ARE YOU FEELING THE ASTER?
This was why I liked the show.
S1 was one of the best 10s cartoons
No, it really wasn't.
Season One relies very heavily on telling you rather than showing. Like how Aqualad says Robin is "Destined to be the leader" and the payoff is that he's just suddenly the leader after a time skip.
And the characters weren't really characters so much as a collection of catchphrases. Their interpersonal relationships were likewise telegraphed so heavily that it wasn't very entertaining to watch.
Now having said all that I can see how if this was your first show of this sort these flaws wouldn't be as obvious.
Name the better shows then, minus generator rex
10 better shows? Were there so many in the 2010s?
I'd say Gravity Falls was easily more successful, Rick and Morty too, easily. Whatever Simpsons season that came out in that decade, despite being ugh, still pulled better numbers. Steven Universe even in the shittier seasons pulled bigger numbers. How many is that? 4? Well shit then maybe it makes it to the top 10, but not because of quality but due to lack of participants.
Congrats, anon. Your shit got the participation award.
>and the payoff is that he's just suddenly the leader after a time skip
>time skip
Doesn't sound like a S1 problem.
More like an every season problem since each one has a time skip.
But everyone already knows the writers can't write timeskips for a living
S2 might not have been so fricking shit if it wasn't for it
It's an S1 problem because the time to show the build up to that promise would've been then.
>Like how Aqualad says Robin is "Destined to be the leader" and the payoff is that he's just suddenly the leader after a time skip.
I always thought that was funny since seasons 2 and 3 showed that Dick was falling into the same flaws that Bruce had, so he had to step back from leadership. Almost like Kaldur was wrong about Dick.
Watch better cartoons.
The 10s were dogshit
The show did felt odd in how it flip-flopped between being a teen team and being a justice league stealth op team. Why would you use your inexperienced teens for stealth?
What they did to YJ Superboy is unforgivable
It turns out Weisman unchained results in him stuffing the show with pointless bullshit like non-binary alien muslims and low effort allegories for real life racism. Just like most "genius" creators, he worked better when he had people to rein in his bad ideas.
this. The demographic of it was teenage males and girls. Why the frick would you gayify it?
More accurately, why would you refuse to gayify it in a way teenage girls love? Nobody gives a shit about a computer woman's fake sexuality or a fat guy kissing someone who isn't part of a relevant ship.
Bart and Eduardo could've been that, but DC apparently got weird about Bart being portrayed as gay, so the most they get is a superfast kiss on the cheek.
Male and male scares execs too much. Computer woman's fake sexuality is far more palatable, and allows you to get those diversity points without actually pushing any boat out.
Teenage girls love the hint that close bonds of friendship and camaraderie may lead to them going off for some gay sex or becoming a couple.
Think Solid Snake and Otacon.
Tim Drake coming out ultimately sunk any interest most teenage girls and women would have for him. Most actually find gay men off-putting if not disgusting. It's why in most ships the character 'isn't that way' but they have a singular homosexual attraction to another character. By the way, a lot of gay men find straight men or straight-acting men more attractive.
Plus, DC shipped him with worst guy.
>Tim Drake coming out ultimately sunk any interest most teenage girls and women would have for him. Most actually find gay men off-putting if not disgusting.
Keep lying, moron.
Brokebank Mountain, where two straight men cheat on their wives, was successful. Bros, about two gay men steeped in Western gay culture, was not.
You can't capture a female audience with the main characters being explicitly gay. You need that will they or won't they tension.
The other anon's right about the tension towards a getting together or what looks like tension tends to get more eyeballs and hunger than an established relationship most of the time. Not 100% of the time, but the 'safe' bet is milking and building the tension as long as possible for attention. Lots of romance related stories end shortly after the official getting together for a reason
Timeskips
Not just timeskips but the fact that major character development happens during those timeskips.
Autism.
Nightwing became a minor character by S4.
From what I saw it was the usual Greg Wiesman shit:
>nothing substantial ever happens besides relationship drama
>constant cast shuffling
>villains are somehow always one step ahead, meaning the heroes hardly ever accomplish anything
>character conflicts about moronic morals while the bad guys get away with their deeds
weird because shipping bullshit is usually pushed by teen girls, not adult men.
Vandal Savage PowerPoint presentation against Lord of Chaos and Orders does feel unearned after he running away in the first place especially with how hard Zee and the other magician fighting the Child. It's look like Greg Weissman afraid to make him look bad
>It's look like Greg Weissman afraid to make him look bad
And then the Atlantis arc happened.
Fair answer, still Vandal earning more than what he deserved.
It's also remind me of Lex face at YJ Target. Good moment I admit
I think this is one of those moments that works better with voice acting. Kaldur doesn't say anything too bad, but he probably was meant to sound pissed off enough to rattle Lex.
I was indifferent to most of it, but Dr. Fate stopping by to see Vandal seethe was good. The final two arcs were more fun.
A lot of anons said that they stopped watching somewhere around that arc.
So many things...
>Entire arcs happening in timeskips
>Overbloated, underdeveloped cast
>Writers are Megangays
>Light losing focus in a way that makes most of its members interchangeable, making them even more boring than in season 1
>Lack of direction
>More detailed art style starting in season 3, making the animation overall worse and stiff
>Constant promise of Darkseid being fought and never delivering
>Writers are Vandalgays
>Both ends of bad pacing (Too fast in season 2 and 3, too slow in season 4)
>Seasons 2 and 3 repeated a lot of plot beats with Dick and Kaldur'ahm
>butthole characters constantly get rewarded for being buttholes (That includes heroes like M'gann, Dick and Kaldur'ahm)
>Static being the best thing in season 2 then loses all spotlight
>Characters constantly being randomly mute in episodes, season 3's finale had Halo and Forager mute despite how little sense it makes for them to not comment on Geo Force's actions
And other things I forgot about...
And then he comes back at the end out of nowhere to get the Kryptonians from Phantom Zone.
I'll always find it funny that Dick wants to avoid being like Batman in season 1, when season 1 makes Batman into a surprisingly nice, if strict guy, it's to the point that the bullshit Dick pulls in season 2 look like they were done by him first, and then Batman copied them in season 3.
Kaldur'ahm's character development in season 4 is a cool idea, but it's execution is basically everyone else saying that he must be sad, and then he's out of focus for most of his arc, then it ends with him admitting he's sad... Meanwhile pet characters like Megan and Artemis (Although Artemis is way less bad) get most of the development, again.
You forgot his pathological need to include closed loop time travel and Shakespeare references in everything he writes.
Shakespeare didn't come up in this show until the fourth season.
I miss posting here when Invasion was airing. Some of that energy was back during Lor-Zod's shenanigans, but it's not really the same.
The only closed time loop we got in the series was Lor-Zod getting literally BTFO'd by Metron. Everything else operates under malleable time.
Nothing. In fact, it all went according to plan.
The constant focus on this insipid relationship.
M'gann was very clearly the writers' pet character and it made her absolutely insufferable to watch. They should have killed her off in S2.
She should've gone full villain in season 2.
It's why I consider the ending of Targets to be the true ending of the show (for now), which it technically is since it takes place post-season 4. The Wally flashback was also icing on the cake
Increasingly bloated cast and unbalanced focus killed it for me. Also, the fact that the villains always pulled muh keikaku continuously got old pretty fast.
Legit, this is one of those relationships where we wouldn't be hearing the end of it if the roles were reversed as M'gann was literally grooming Conner.
There's also the age gap issue. When she met him, she was 48 Earth years old and he was only 6 months old because he had been grown in the cloning pod.
Bite off more than you can chew. After S2 they focus in so many subplots that we lost the main plot of Vandal Savage and Apokolips.
It devolved into shipping, public service announcements and CW tier drama and it lost focus on being a superhero action/adventure show.
The Light never fricking loses and it gets annoying.
Except they do at various points. Or are you talking about a permanent defeat? That's not going to happen. The entire show revolves around the war between The Light and Apokolips. They're not seasonal Big Bads like The Reach, Granny Goodness or the House of Zod were.
>Except they do at various points
which are pretty rare in itself.
>Whelmed
>Aster
>That cackle
Was S1 YJ the best Robin cartoon adaptation ever?
Young Justice > The Batman > Teen Titans > Batman: BatB > >TTGo > Batman TAS
Yes, YJ Robin is like the perfect Dick adaption.
I wish Wally got an Arc
Timeskips
They took away Phantom Girl back to the 31st century. Show's dead now
They should've greenlit a LoSH spin-off instead of giving Bendis his own show.
They wanted to do a LOSH spinoff with Supergirl way back when JLU was still airing, but it never got off the ground.
Wasn’t that the one that ended up turning into the superboy show?
There was a LOSH in the early 2000s but it didn't seemed to be connected to the JLU spinoff. The only time it seems to get discussed around here though is because of Phantom Girl or very occasionally Superboy/Brainiac shippers.
>Huge timeskips that don't fricking help anything and just introduce new characters that nobody gives a frick about. Season 1 ended with wondering where the league disappeared to for a few hours and season 2 starts with a 5 year jump? The frick is that
>Losing the fricking purpose of the team being young and inexperienced by season 2. They were a team of sidekicks that got the shit beat out of them by every adult villain even if they were fricking C-Tier. Why the frick are they dealing with Justice league villains now it makes no sense.
>Weisman fricking saying that the show has no end in sight and is just supposed to go on until it gets cancelled. Does he want it to be a fricking soap opera? Fricking have an end goal in mind and work towards it
>Huge timeskips that don't fricking help anything and just introduce new characters that nobody gives a frick about. Season 1 ended with wondering where the league disappeared to for a few hours and season 2 starts with a 5 year jump? The frick is that
They literally answered this in the first episode of season 2
>Losing the fricking purpose of the team being young and inexperienced by season 2. They were a team of sidekicks that got the shit beat out of them by every adult villain even if they were fricking C-Tier. Why the frick are they dealing with Justice league villains now it makes no sense.
The purpose of "The Team" was to be the League's cover ops unit, and do their dirty work in stealth
>Weisman fricking saying that the show has no end in sight and is just supposed to go on until it gets cancelled. Does he want it to be a fricking soap opera? Fricking have an end goal in mind and work towards it
The Light is a recurring threat that send belligerents like the Reach and Apokoliptians to fight the League, All of which had their arcs and endings. You might not like it but this is how comics work.
>You might not like it but this is how comics work.
Yeah, but this ain't a comic
>The purpose of "The Team" was to be the League's cover ops unit, and do their dirty work in stealth
This was always fricking dumb
>Yeah Batman's sidekick, Aquaman's successor, the kid wearing a flash emblem, the kid wearing a superman S, and a martian? They're totally unaffiliated with the Justice League. Why would you think otherwise?
The people The Team was hiding from was the public writ large. The Light caught onto the fact that this specific group of vigilantes were targeting them .. well operating against them inside of three weeks.
The executive refusing to let Bart come out crossed the fujos one too many times, so they created a hypersigil and got it cancelled.
The cast expanded beyond the show's ability to use the new characters or continue the story arcs of the old ones. The creators probably thought they could emulate JLU, but failed entirely.
Anything involving Forager and Forager
it WAS supposed to be the new teen titans!! cant believe they fricked it up
>Shitty time skips
>Doubling the team size every season
>Throwing away character development in favor of adding new characters
>No real plans for arcs, just constantly tease Darkseid and have small mini conflicts each season which aren't that consequential
>Never bring back Wally who was the best character
>Spending too much time with the Justice League instead of the actual Young Justice
>Never bring back Wally who was the best character
I binged the whole series in one go and holy frick it felt like they would flip between confirming he was dead and everyone needed to move on to teasing bringing him back constantly, it was maddening.
Yeah the writers never seemed to pick up on the fact that there were too many characters.
Having a large cast is fine, but everyone needs a reason to be there and everyone needs their time to shine. If you have a huge cast that's hyperfocused on a handful of shitty characters (Halo, etc.) while all of the characters everyone actually wants to see are basically just standing around in group scenes with no lines and no real relevance to the story, then that becomes a problem.
I guess it doesn't get to me because I don't consider a lot of the additions to be main characters. The show consistently focuses on the original members (Dick, Kaldur, Artemis, M'gann, and Conner) with everyone else either having relevancy for the arc (Blue Beetle, Impulse, Halo, Geo-Force, Cyborg, Beast Boy, the LoSH) or just being bit players and cameos. Everyone for some reason expected the show to flesh out literally every new member instead of treating them as the minor characters they are.
I remember when season 3 was coming out, people were actually pissed off that Batwoman made a cameo as a JL member who quit, since they thought it was ANOTHER legit character to focus on and not just a cameo that aids the world-building.
Dick didn't get any character development after S1. He's a plot device there to set up the Batman Gambit that helps the team pull through and save the day.
Kaldur didn't get any character development after S2. Once they moved him to the League he was a secondary character at best.
Artemis, Megan, and Connor were the main three, but even they were taking a back seat to Beetle and Halo in S2 and 3.
>Dick didn't get any character development after S1.
He ended up falling into the Batman-like habits that he swore to avoid as a teen, then removed himself from leadership once he ensured the right people were placed in order. Also, he had a mini-arc with him refusing to help Brion and Violet because he was still grieving Wally.
>Kaldur didn't get any character development after S2.
This is true in season three beyond keeping the Anti-Light's secrets, but season four had him actually stop bottling up his feelings and throwing himself into his work to avoid dealing with them. I don't think the execution was great, but they did do something new with his character.
It's kinda divisive with it. With the large casts the show really feel crowded, unlike JLU which clear with its 7 main characters. Perhaps it's because the poster for season 3 that highlighting the Outsider, so folks got angry as they want the original team back then
Yeah, the marketing for Outsiders was pretty baffling. They even included Katana and Metamorpho and made it seem like they were major characters instead of just supporting heroes for Batman's solo mission in Santa Prisca.
>put static in the show
>do literally nothing with him
>literally set up him being mentored by black lightning and then get rid of it at the start of the next season
What the frick happened here?
I think that is the problem. The show look promising so much more than they can handle. I see YJ fans are usually consisting of OG team members fans or other character fans that want their character got a spotlight. Well unlike JLU or lets say Game of Thrones with similarity of handling lot of characters and plots, YJ have a hard time to give satisfying contents for all the fans
I just think it was really odd to set that up and even have Black Lightning as a main character next season and just not follow up on him mentoring Virgil.
I'm certain the reason why Black Lightning was a major character in S3 was because the season was called Outsiders and they didn't want the season to be completely divorced from the comic version.
Which just makes their decision of naming (essentially) the Johns' Teen Titans the Outsiders even weirder. i feel like they were just doing subversion for the sake of subversion there.
I heard there was some mandate to have Black Lightning as a main character but I don't know how much validity there is to that.
I don't know I feel like JLU is a show that has 12 major characters.
The Original 7: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Hawkgirl, Green Lantern, J'onn.
A promotion for Supergirl, then the new group of inductees that constantly feature: Green Arrow, Black Canary, Huntress, Question, Vixen and maybe Zatanna on the outside and 45 reoccuring walk ons.
But weirdly it isn't like characters get very personal spotlights and expand their social webs. Like Vigilante is hanging out with Atom Smasher and Shining Knight all the time, and Patriot Act contrives to put him, Shining Knight, the duo of Stargirl and Stripe Green+Red Arrow, and the Crimson Avenger as an homage to the Seven Soldiers of Victory... but I think from the lack of acknowledgement it's clear that they weren't previously operating as an interdependent team of seven heroes in the canon of Justice League. Admittedly just from the lack of self-recognition and the crew as a whole having no special cohesion. Heck Stargirl is only just finding out Vigilante has razzmatazz.
But it works because the aim of the show isn't to try to make sure we know how all 60 leaguers feel about one another and a splattering of villains. Hell half the "Unlimited" plot threads all stick on the Green Arrow + Question + Canary + Huntress clique. Sure some characters do develop. But... that's not universal. Vixen isn't gal-palling around with Fire and Ice the other superheroine supermodels. We don't see a random scene where The Ray and Booster Gold participate in a race for charity. They just fill their roles for the specific episodes they may be lucky to be credited as starring in, and participate in a few group action shots.
JLU did a really incredible job of having an overarching plot for the first season, but YJ is like the ultimate Vandal Savage scheme that plays out over several generations of heroes fighting seemingly random and unconnected plots. Most of the time, no one has any idea what is going on, and SEELE-style telemeetings where "everything is going according to plan" gets old.
I wish the GL show had survived instead.
How is Reddy the best no matter the incarnation, no matter who is writing him
He's like the Vision, except fun and no Wanda angst.
Beast Boy had more screentime than Wally overall. I'm fairly certain Gar is just one of Weisman's favourite characters so he kept giving him plotlines even when the plans for seasons 3 and 4 originally didn't include him at all.
Hell, the way his arc was going, it's pretty clear it was meant to end with him meeting Raven and "curing" his depression
I like beast boy but holy frick did we really need that long of a ptsd arc? They waste so much time on beast boy being sad and halo being gay/muslim that could have been spent on anything else
>Halo spent less than an episode "being gay/muslim" and everyone loses their mind.
>M'gann has an identity crisis for multiple goddamn season and no one bats an eye.
You people are hypocrites.
>yeah well what about the other reason the show fell off a fricking cliff, huh HUH???!?1!
People gave a lot more shits about bobblemegan and the absolute cringe of the bald arc than the gay brown chick in the burkini. gay drama was as engaging as the forager species dynamics it wasn't and the only reason it didn't drag the show as heavily as Megan being worstgirl was its merciful irrelevance. In the bulk of the last few seasons the diversity characters got less than a line an episode; "And I'm her too" could be a literal quote from the muslim chick for how little anything she's ever done has mattered in the show.
Or maybe he's Vietti's. I do remember them saying that Beast Boy wasn't going to be in season 3 that much, but the whole plot with the Outsiders placed him as a natural leader of that team compared to other heroes.
I doubt it. He was being seeded throughout season 2 and even in the tie-in comic. This show sometimes introduces major characters in very minor roles.
And shit, I forgot to mention that Weisman is surprisingly strict when it comes to using favorites. Captain Atom doesn't really get much to do beyond some appearances in season 2 and a story in the tie-in comic. Black Canary is more prominent as a therapist, but I'd hardly call her a major character. Scarecrow's his favorite Batman villain, but we don't even have a hint he exists.
tried to be too edgy, hip, down with it, and at the same time try to show teens can be adults in super serious relationships/situations of life and death.
Go woke go broke.
They tried to get me to not like the best character. Even though he did nothing wrong
>kills one guy in the heat of the moment
>entire team abandons him and refuses to contact him
>motherbox gf doesn’t contact him for months, only to show up and call him a homosexual for trying to maintain a country and provide safe haven to metas
>sister refuses to contact him and writes him off immediately, after he spent half his life trying to find and save her
>he is also getting mind controlled the entire time
To be fair, he is the one who banished the team from Markovia the moment he killed Bedlam, and even if they're on better terms as of now, he's still enacting the banishment. And Halo did try to reach out to him, but the ambassador ruined that.
>kills one guy in the heat of the moment
The guy who just escaped from prison, said he would never stop trying to take over the kingdom/try to kill him. Somehow killing him in the spot is seen as the wrong choice.
>he did nothing wrong
he wanted to make a a non binary muslim lesbian the queen of a European country
>They tried to get me to not like the best character.
Most shows for some reason wouldn't bother to make him sound reasonable after his moment. He definitely did nothing wrong besides getting manipulated.
I'm really tired of the "one bad relationship now the character is gay" bullshit because there is no risk of it being reversed and becomes the end game relationship.
This is pretty accurate although there is more positives and negatives than that. It is basically trying to speedrun the DCAU. The wokeness is an issue. Halo becoming Muslim goes against her character arc of not being defined by her host. Also, it is fricking moronic. Their reasoning to make Black Lightning the leader feels forced because the only thing that the "anti-Light" fricked up is with Brion and slept with a spy.
For a modern show, the good thing is that the character's skin color isn't an automatic sign on what the writers want me to feel about the character.
A more interesting thread would be what are the bits that manage to be good in YJ
>What went wrong?
The writing was not nearly as strong as the writers thought it was. The teens did not sound or act like teens at all and came off more like mildly moronic adults. The relationships were all the height of cringe in different ways that the writers were all obviously very proud of. The cast started off fine then got too big and just kept fricking growing. Large blocks of time just glossed over where the various villains being on world domination apparently sat on their thumbs. The adult heroes were weak, ineffectual or absent. Characters had new personalities that did not fit them.
The show literally felt like someone wanted to do X-Men and were told to just erase the names and call it Young Justice. Not a terrible show but maybe the most disappointing DC series and it got way more fricking love from the studio than it deserved or ever earned and they squandered every opportunity they got.
I remember an episode by the tail end of s1 or 2 that was basically the characters summing up the main plot points, that's when I dropped out.
They killed wally west and then time skip for no fricking reason.
Wally never got to knock up artemis
greg weisman got creative freedom after s1
the appeal of this kind of show is seeing the main cast interact and grow with each other which is largely facilitated by them being young heroes. When you get away from that it loses all of its appeal. Creating some shittier version of the justice league but more melodramatic and filled with heavy handed PSAs is just a bad direction to go in. This is without even getting to the actual substance of the ongoing plots which are nothing to write home about
I remember dropping it because too many new characters I didn't give a shit about.
It was never good to begin with
Huge timeskips and specially wokeness out of nowhere is what killed it for me.
Everything after season 2 is worthless.
Season 1 was amazing, Season 2 was great, Season 3 was meh and boring, I didn't even watched Season 4
Tbh season 3 ruined this series. The writers turned their back on the OG fans and then told them that “there is always fanfiction.” Greg Wiseman sounds like a tool.
>there is always fanfiction
But is there good yj fanfiction?
This never happened again
Some have said that’s the only thing everyone agreed was good
Really wonder how or what went on making this since the episode was delayed and showed at San Diego comic con to. And how obvious it is
I,shine seeing her ina crowd with the creators. Thst had to be funny. Any video of the sdcc event? I only found an interview with one of the actresses
This is the most dc has shown in a non adult show or movie I think. That had to be funny seeing that in a crowd with the creators there
I still don’t get the basic premise of the show, it just doesn’t feel like the JL to turn every kid and teen hero into essentially black ops soldiers. I don’t think even Batman at this worse would be ok with this in any other universe. And it’s such a shame because this was really the first universe to have almost entire access to the DC catalog apart from a few WW-related issues in S1 and this is how it turns out.
There's the toys: any DC comics show needs to sell merch. You've got an action figure line that has way too many female characters (3 versions of M'Gann, really?). They look cheaply made. There are too many characters. And you need more villains in the line.
I don't know this exists, even Google image not showing it. Yeah I'm suprised they aren't making Klarion toys for example
Poor group dynamics, too much M'Gann, and too much Justice League. The time skips and shuffling of characters didn't do the show any favors, like some anons have said.
Chaos pussy
Weisman literally said there was no ending ever planned and that he intended to keep writing stories for as long as the show was renewed. Not having at least a rough idea of where things are going to end is a recipe for disaster for any serialized story. It leads to meandering and irrelevant fluff to waste time.
They do have specific ideas for developments and endings for certain story and character arcs. All Weisman was really saying is that there's not one singular ending that ties everything in a nice, neat bow. No final boss fight against Darkseid that results in an Earth free of villains and evil in general. Even if Apokolips or the Light's endgame was in the cards, there's always another villain or force to contend with.
This approach isn't unique to YJ. There's tons of shows that tend to write as they go with no definitive end in sight. Samurai Jack wasn't supposed to have a definitive ending and I'd argue trying to give it one led to disaster. Even the DCAU is still revisited via the Harley Quinn and Fatal Five movies or the newer B:TAS and Justice League Infinity comics. I think YJ just got a lot of flack for it due to those plans being VERY long-term and also fans feeling they need an ending because the show got brought back to life.
I forget the exact verbiage, but Greg Weisman tweeted that they had a "sensitivity consultant" or something like that who reviewed their scripts for S4 and he made it sound like it was a good thing. I couldn't believe what I was reading (pic related). That was when the series died to me. If a writer can't stand behind his or her work without it being filtered by the PC police, then their product isn't worth consuming.
Do you realize how many shows nowadays are mandated to have that? He probably didn't have a choice.
Really? The series died in S4 for you? Not S2 where they spent 60% of the screentime on Blue Beetle and Impulse?
Season 2 was fine with me because I liked The Reach so much. Still shocked Scientist has no porn.
>Jaime and Bart
were okay enough for their purpose but Jaime's personality pales so much in comparison to his 06 comics version and for me that's hard to look past for the focus character of the adapted Reach arc
>Beast Boy
okay at first then annoying the more screentime he got
>M'gann
annoying
>Conner
sympathetic on his own but it's annoying that he's so tied and twisted around whatever M'gann is doing with her screentime
>Halo
mega super annoying, never want to see another minute
>Forager
kinda annoying but would be easily forgivable if he was the only annoying one
>Lor Zod and co
actually worth their screentime, wow!
Several of the focus characters were just so blah to have to sit through and some others were used in ways that felt off or like too much of a reach to believe the justification of without suspension of disbelief cracking somewhere (like how Batgirl got paralyzed). I can handle the cons that comes with YJ's attempted format and annoying timeskipping but there's too many charmless characters that aren't worth a minutes of their alloted screentime. It's a bit like "death by a thousand small annoyances"
Lore overdose
Season 1 was mostly old school cartoon fun with a bit of drama. Season 2 was a lot of drama. Season 3 was nothing but drama, and was basically a soap opera staring comic book characters.
Rocket’s autistic child was the cringiest thing in S4 to me, maybe it just felt too real and I pity parents who have to deal with that.
>maybe it just felt too real and I pity parents who have to deal with that.
It's weird because I've seen two different responses. Some people praise it for being realistic and at the same time, other people people were saying that it was stereotypical and insulting to people who actually have autism because the child was literally having meltdowns and going "REEEEEEEEEEE!" in public.
This is where the show died. When the supervillains decided that actual supervillainy is a bridge too far and killed the one guy who was willing to do something to hurt the Heroes.
seems like a cop out for why the Light would obviously know who everybody is and do nothing about it
There wasn't enough rape
There was an entire Miss Martian mindrape subplot.
They had a good set up with the first season. Then season 2 where development is skipped, tons of stupid characters are introduced. Watchable but a complete waste of the original team.
The revival seasons are the worst with their weird tangents and autistic Deviant-tier exploration of 'mature' themes instead of just being entertaining, it was horrible. Oh shit the motherbox thinks she wants to be a Muslim and called a they who gives a frick man where Darkseid
Long time skips
Shit ton of characters
Vandal's defeats somehow all end up meaning nothing
I liked the New Genesis plot they went with, but I also would've liked some focus on Dakota.
There was some rights issues in the middle of the series production where they temporarily lost access to some of the Milestone characters and so a lot of those characters sort of disappeared for a while.
Does anybody actually care about Jason Todd? Why does it matter that this show ignored him?