>What went wrong?
the MCU is nothing without RDJ. The hype was born on Iron Man, and carried by Robert's iconic charisma, and as soon as Iron Man left (Endgame) the whole thing became rotten
They knew it, too, it's why he was in every Spiderman til the character was killed off, to guarantee they broke the bombing curse the Garfield ones suffered from
>OH SO YOU LIKE CAP AMERICA? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A BLACK GUY NOW >OH SO YOU LIKE IRONMAN? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A BLACK LADY NOW >OH SO YOU LIKE THOR? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A israeli LADY NOW >OH SO YOU LIKE HULK? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A israeli LADY NOW >OH SO YOU LIKE SPIDERMAN? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A BLACK GUY NOW >OH SO YOU LIKE BLADE? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A BLACK LADY NOW
ETC ETC ETC
BLack Panther was pretty harmless, he didn't even wind up being some significant factor in anything past Civil War, and even in that one he was basically a non-issue
You're forgetting that the actor of Black Panther was sick and later died else Marvel would have given him the position of Captain America in leading the team which in the end was again given to a black man-Falcon
It was never going to last. The novelty of seeing your favorite characters together for the first time has already worn off. Who cares if Captain marvel meets Daredevil now.
1. Built the brand around one incredibly charismatic lead (RDJ), and then finished his story in a pretty conclusive way, breaking the audience's attachment. Honestly they should have had the balls of closing the franchise there instead of forcing these new characters nobody gives a shit about, it'd have been somewhat fondly remembered by people instead of the butt of jokes it is now.
2. What says, the idea of "superhero cinematic universe" just lost its luster. Like, everything has its expiration date and all fads eventually end. It's just the MCU's time.
>What went wrong?
The MCU died the exact second they made the Bohner joke in Wandavision. The entire MCU just collapsed afterwards. Hacks had fully taken over.
This sounds like a dismissable comment at first but I do think there is an element of strong truth here.
WandaVision hit at the right time and was structured interestingly enough to have everyone talking about it and thinking Marvel could do prestige TV shows.
Pulling over Quicksilver from the Fox-Men was hype, even people who didn't get it were excited when it was explained what MIGHT be happening.
And then they popped it like a wet fart, everyone felt betrayed and let down.
They didn't have the balls or the sense to do it.
And then we find out later on that they had no intent to do most of the things people were hoping for or guessing and all the references were accidental. They lost their ability to be in touch and they lost their confidence at THE crucial mark.
All the subsequent choices after that failure led to downhill consequences.
Only No Way Home and Guardians had any juice and both were propped up by other factors.
Prof X and the Illuminati in Strange 2 were a response to fricking up Quicksilver, but too late and too inept.
Like 25 movies in 16 or so years time all being connected. The whole idea of bringing a couple heroes together was cool at first. But then they kept putting them in one anothers movies so it was more like hour and a half long series episodes rather than stand alone movies
>so it was more like hour and a half long series episodes rather than stand alone movies
and there's absolutely no logical reason that shouldn't work, since series do this all the time successfully, and get hugely popular doing so
but of course you have to be competent and actually make everything to the same rough quality level to do this
When they started catering to audiences outside of comic book fans or people who generally expected that kind of movie.
It's like making a Super Mario movie and basing it around Sex and the City.
That's the biggest problem, like with Star Wars, they're catering to some imaginary audience that doesn't even exist; if they did they wouldn't have to blame the audience they're basically telling to get fricked for not watching it.
i mean that show is a lot like those comic books. 4th wall breaks are pretty annoying, and deadpool gets away with it because he's also insane so there's an in universe explanation. She-hulks 4th wall breaks were dumb even in her comics because they alter things.
The big problem with She-hulks commentary is that it seems to make fun of the audience for consuming the media Marvel produces. At the end, they say its dumb to just want some big CGI battle at the end that doesn't really make sense or whatever, but thats what all the movies do now, so why are you criticizing people for watching? I don't even disagree with the basic idea of what its saying, but you can't be mad at me about the movies you make. The audience isn't forcing you to put a bunch of CGI in shit, those are your choices that you assume the audience wants, even though its the biggest criticism.
i don't think there's a single chance you ever liked a shehulk comic
4 months ago
Anonymous
"I-I swear ! She j-just like in the c-comics"
You wish.
4 months ago
Anonymous
hey moron when did you ever read a shehulk comic? the whole premise is she's a big bawd who can talk to the reader. you got nothing and you know nothing. stop acting like you were a big fan getting slighted
4 months ago
Anonymous
There is not need to be upset because people who liked the comics didn't like the show.
4 months ago
Anonymous
i don't like the comics and i also don't like the show, but they are pretty much the same thing. there isn't anybody who liked shehulk comics and hated the show, because nothing was different. just be true to the opinion that the shehulk comics sucked, and so did the show
4 months ago
Anonymous
>i also don't like the show
Concession accepted. It's brave to acknowledge you were wrong anon, I appreciate that.
>When they started catering to audiences outside of comic book fans
So since the beginning? MCU actively was NOT like the comics and was always mass appeal slop. That’s why they used C listers like Iron Man because nobody would give a shit from it being different from the source
"Ally McBeal but with superheroes" could have worked but they hired producers and writers who completely misunderstood what they could and should do in respect of the storytelling potential, brand and bigger picture. Hugely expensive vanity project for messages and themes most of the audience doesn't actually want.
I don't even like whedon, but he was clearly brought in on a patch job and WB execs had their hands all over JLA. For better or worse he set the comedic tone for the early MCU that they kept all the way up till Guardians.
The streaming service ruined the brand. They let a bunch of leftist writers with an ego the size of a transatlantic develop stories with little to no engagement with the comic genre and its consoomers.
i liked watching the netflix streaming shows though, its not streaming services, lots of marvel would be better as shows. in fact, Spiderman would work better as a show, but since there's only IP prestige in movies, no one will do it. Same idea behind the Gotham TV show, a serious episodic batman tv show would be really cool, if it was like old HBO type shit. but instead we get a show that can't use batman or joker, and the budget constraints of CW.
executives think strong IPs will be diminished in value by being episodic. they treat these like real estate properties. whats even the point of having these streaming shows if they don't touch the greater universe you've invested so much in?
I think there's a lot of meme answers that pretend comics haven't always been mostly liberal social themes.
I think after the last avengers you have to start making some more risky material. regardless of what you think about the spidermans, they introduced the idea that these street level guys now had super tech, there's cool stuff you could do with punisher after that, and kingpin, or whatever. I don't blame Disney for hesitation on putting Punisher in a movie, but mixing him with Spiderman would at least be interesting. They also got all the rights to Xmen and Doctor Doom which would have been way more interesting to set up than a multiverse thing.
Multiverse is just a really bad direction, and you just know they did it because of a cooperate idea of "well the sequel has to be bigger" but audiences know time travel is already breaking the stakes, multiverse just starts removing any reason to care about anything because there's always some other universe, which time travel does too.
i don't think so, i think its pretty clear a lot of early concepts had these leftist themes about civil rights, greed, fighting fascism. The thing is, most artists are writers are going to fall somewhere on the left, it doesn't matter if these ideas populate the stories as a building block for something. Like X-men having using a lot of themes about discrimination is not heavy handed, because it also makes sense in universe. its when these ideas take a front seat, OVER the actual story it becomes a problem. This kind of writing makes these things morality plays.
For instance, there's lots of pretty good batman stories written by libertarians. I'm not a libertarian, I can see these themes, but they work for batman because it makes sense for batman to operate that way.
I don't mind political themes, every superhero story is gonna have them. but the ideology can't be the main character
> its when these ideas take a front seat, OVER the actual story it becomes a problem
Agreed, there's a lot of good comics from the 70's and 80's that deal with civil rights themes, Green Arrow, John Stewart GL, Monica Rambeau Cap Marvel....
Absolutely the multiverse. Trying to take it the multiverse seriously will almost always remove all stakes because the audience will inherently realize that nothing really matters anymore.
They didn't give enough cooldown time after Endgame.
Sure, gotta keep the money printers going, but if Marvel had just done -nothing- for like 2-3 years, then announce a new 'phase,' they'd still be on top of the world. It's just when Endgame happened, everyone knew it was the end of an era. End is in the fricking name after all, so even the sub 80 IQ's mouth breathers knew it was the jumping off point.
Just like Star Wars, too much is too much, regardless of franchise/hype. If Marvel just takes some time off to let the brand cool down and reset the audience's taste, then they wouldn't be in this sorry state.
1. Making the watching of movies & television show into homework (the hype was gone after Endgame).
2. Cutting out all the Avengers & replacing them with the bench-warmers & substitutes.
3. Trying to justify Scarlet Witch's horrible crimes.
4. Continuing after Thanos. Yeah, it's a double edged sword of "we wanna see what else happens in this universe!" but I don't really care about the B & C list characters teaming up to beat up Kang, AKA Big Villain #2. Nor do I care how they handle the third guy, if they keep going after that.
Quantity over quality
OP is asking what went so wrong with the world that Marvel won, are you guys dumb?
Then OP should have learned to speak better.
It should be obvious moron
Uh huh, here's another (You), moron.
continuing past 2019
This, and not only this, but doing the same idiotic shit they tried with the comics, replacing everyone popular with teenage female versions.
No hot sexualized female characters with coomer outfits = woke trash
Constant blueballing with no actual end goal.
>What went wrong?
Capitalists hired communists to run their assets.
Huge build up with shitty payoff.
wokeism
>What went wrong?
the MCU is nothing without RDJ. The hype was born on Iron Man, and carried by Robert's iconic charisma, and as soon as Iron Man left (Endgame) the whole thing became rotten
They knew it, too, it's why he was in every Spiderman til the character was killed off, to guarantee they broke the bombing curse the Garfield ones suffered from
>it's why he was in every Spiderman til the character was killed off
so one movie
Nah he was in two of them
>OH SO YOU LIKE CAP AMERICA? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A BLACK GUY NOW
>OH SO YOU LIKE IRONMAN? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A BLACK LADY NOW
>OH SO YOU LIKE THOR? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A israeli LADY NOW
>OH SO YOU LIKE HULK? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A israeli LADY NOW
>OH SO YOU LIKE SPIDERMAN? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A BLACK GUY NOW
>OH SO YOU LIKE BLADE? WELL HE'S GONNA GET REPLACED BY A BLACK LADY NOW
ETC ETC ETC
doing the exact opposite of what your fanbase enjoys
Greed
Also women
>Black Panther
>Captain Marvel
>Endshit
Ruining your memeverse
BLack Panther was pretty harmless, he didn't even wind up being some significant factor in anything past Civil War, and even in that one he was basically a non-issue
You're forgetting that the actor of Black Panther was sick and later died else Marvel would have given him the position of Captain America in leading the team which in the end was again given to a black man-Falcon
It was never going to last. The novelty of seeing your favorite characters together for the first time has already worn off. Who cares if Captain marvel meets Daredevil now.
1. Built the brand around one incredibly charismatic lead (RDJ), and then finished his story in a pretty conclusive way, breaking the audience's attachment. Honestly they should have had the balls of closing the franchise there instead of forcing these new characters nobody gives a shit about, it'd have been somewhat fondly remembered by people instead of the butt of jokes it is now.
2. What says, the idea of "superhero cinematic universe" just lost its luster. Like, everything has its expiration date and all fads eventually end. It's just the MCU's time.
people who were 20 years old in 2008 and single today in 2024 are years old are married and with two children
THERE. I solved why your MJU flop flicks after thanos.
>What went wrong?
The MCU died the exact second they made the Bohner joke in Wandavision. The entire MCU just collapsed afterwards. Hacks had fully taken over.
Yeah. Weekly Wandavision speculation season was fun. The finale shat all over it
This sounds like a dismissable comment at first but I do think there is an element of strong truth here.
WandaVision hit at the right time and was structured interestingly enough to have everyone talking about it and thinking Marvel could do prestige TV shows.
Pulling over Quicksilver from the Fox-Men was hype, even people who didn't get it were excited when it was explained what MIGHT be happening.
And then they popped it like a wet fart, everyone felt betrayed and let down.
They didn't have the balls or the sense to do it.
And then we find out later on that they had no intent to do most of the things people were hoping for or guessing and all the references were accidental. They lost their ability to be in touch and they lost their confidence at THE crucial mark.
All the subsequent choices after that failure led to downhill consequences.
Only No Way Home and Guardians had any juice and both were propped up by other factors.
Prof X and the Illuminati in Strange 2 were a response to fricking up Quicksilver, but too late and too inept.
Shut up, you'll watch Echo and like it.
Like 25 movies in 16 or so years time all being connected. The whole idea of bringing a couple heroes together was cool at first. But then they kept putting them in one anothers movies so it was more like hour and a half long series episodes rather than stand alone movies
>so it was more like hour and a half long series episodes rather than stand alone movies
and there's absolutely no logical reason that shouldn't work, since series do this all the time successfully, and get hugely popular doing so
but of course you have to be competent and actually make everything to the same rough quality level to do this
>Nothing!
Where did you get this photograph of all of Cinemaphile and 1/3 of Cinemaphile's userbases?
When they started catering to audiences outside of comic book fans or people who generally expected that kind of movie.
It's like making a Super Mario movie and basing it around Sex and the City.
That's the biggest problem, like with Star Wars, they're catering to some imaginary audience that doesn't even exist; if they did they wouldn't have to blame the audience they're basically telling to get fricked for not watching it.
i mean that show is a lot like those comic books. 4th wall breaks are pretty annoying, and deadpool gets away with it because he's also insane so there's an in universe explanation. She-hulks 4th wall breaks were dumb even in her comics because they alter things.
The big problem with She-hulks commentary is that it seems to make fun of the audience for consuming the media Marvel produces. At the end, they say its dumb to just want some big CGI battle at the end that doesn't really make sense or whatever, but thats what all the movies do now, so why are you criticizing people for watching? I don't even disagree with the basic idea of what its saying, but you can't be mad at me about the movies you make. The audience isn't forcing you to put a bunch of CGI in shit, those are your choices that you assume the audience wants, even though its the biggest criticism.
>i mean that show is a lot like those comic books
Just like how mixing some meat with water is a lot like a human body.
you can't tell me you were a fan of the comics or something and didn't like the show? they are pretty much the same thing
>they are pretty much the same thing
Just like how putting meat and water in a blender is pretty much the same thing as a human body
i don't think there's a single chance you ever liked a shehulk comic
"I-I swear ! She j-just like in the c-comics"
You wish.
hey moron when did you ever read a shehulk comic? the whole premise is she's a big bawd who can talk to the reader. you got nothing and you know nothing. stop acting like you were a big fan getting slighted
There is not need to be upset because people who liked the comics didn't like the show.
i don't like the comics and i also don't like the show, but they are pretty much the same thing. there isn't anybody who liked shehulk comics and hated the show, because nothing was different. just be true to the opinion that the shehulk comics sucked, and so did the show
>i also don't like the show
Concession accepted. It's brave to acknowledge you were wrong anon, I appreciate that.
>When they started catering to audiences outside of comic book fans
So since the beginning? MCU actively was NOT like the comics and was always mass appeal slop. That’s why they used C listers like Iron Man because nobody would give a shit from it being different from the source
"Ally McBeal but with superheroes" could have worked but they hired producers and writers who completely misunderstood what they could and should do in respect of the storytelling potential, brand and bigger picture. Hugely expensive vanity project for messages and themes most of the audience doesn't actually want.
>What if we make this ip to sell crap for boys for fems, cool wine aunts and gays instead
Joss "The Boss" Whedon
the MCU was in one of it's stronger eras under Whedon
people shit all over him, but he knew what he was doing. Marvel fricked up by bringing in all these random directors on projects
>he knew what he was doing.
this was disproven by his DC involvement, the early MCU succeeded despite him
I don't even like whedon, but he was clearly brought in on a patch job and WB execs had their hands all over JLA. For better or worse he set the comedic tone for the early MCU that they kept all the way up till Guardians.
The streaming service ruined the brand. They let a bunch of leftist writers with an ego the size of a transatlantic develop stories with little to no engagement with the comic genre and its consoomers.
i liked watching the netflix streaming shows though, its not streaming services, lots of marvel would be better as shows. in fact, Spiderman would work better as a show, but since there's only IP prestige in movies, no one will do it. Same idea behind the Gotham TV show, a serious episodic batman tv show would be really cool, if it was like old HBO type shit. but instead we get a show that can't use batman or joker, and the budget constraints of CW.
executives think strong IPs will be diminished in value by being episodic. they treat these like real estate properties. whats even the point of having these streaming shows if they don't touch the greater universe you've invested so much in?
phase 4 no avengers
I think there's a lot of meme answers that pretend comics haven't always been mostly liberal social themes.
I think after the last avengers you have to start making some more risky material. regardless of what you think about the spidermans, they introduced the idea that these street level guys now had super tech, there's cool stuff you could do with punisher after that, and kingpin, or whatever. I don't blame Disney for hesitation on putting Punisher in a movie, but mixing him with Spiderman would at least be interesting. They also got all the rights to Xmen and Doctor Doom which would have been way more interesting to set up than a multiverse thing.
Multiverse is just a really bad direction, and you just know they did it because of a cooperate idea of "well the sequel has to be bigger" but audiences know time travel is already breaking the stakes, multiverse just starts removing any reason to care about anything because there's always some other universe, which time travel does too.
>mostly liberal social themes
Only the spinoffs and solo series that they gave to leftist writers.
Most big events and big comics were pretty straight-forward in the "hero's journey" storyline.
i don't think so, i think its pretty clear a lot of early concepts had these leftist themes about civil rights, greed, fighting fascism. The thing is, most artists are writers are going to fall somewhere on the left, it doesn't matter if these ideas populate the stories as a building block for something. Like X-men having using a lot of themes about discrimination is not heavy handed, because it also makes sense in universe. its when these ideas take a front seat, OVER the actual story it becomes a problem. This kind of writing makes these things morality plays.
For instance, there's lots of pretty good batman stories written by libertarians. I'm not a libertarian, I can see these themes, but they work for batman because it makes sense for batman to operate that way.
I don't mind political themes, every superhero story is gonna have them. but the ideology can't be the main character
> its when these ideas take a front seat, OVER the actual story it becomes a problem
Agreed, there's a lot of good comics from the 70's and 80's that deal with civil rights themes, Green Arrow, John Stewart GL, Monica Rambeau Cap Marvel....
Absolutely the multiverse. Trying to take it the multiverse seriously will almost always remove all stakes because the audience will inherently realize that nothing really matters anymore.
Loki, S1 and 2 combined, are only things the MCU did right after Age of Ultron. The decline in quality is not something that started after endgame.
Modern Feminism
They didn't give enough cooldown time after Endgame.
Sure, gotta keep the money printers going, but if Marvel had just done -nothing- for like 2-3 years, then announce a new 'phase,' they'd still be on top of the world. It's just when Endgame happened, everyone knew it was the end of an era. End is in the fricking name after all, so even the sub 80 IQ's mouth breathers knew it was the jumping off point.
Just like Star Wars, too much is too much, regardless of franchise/hype. If Marvel just takes some time off to let the brand cool down and reset the audience's taste, then they wouldn't be in this sorry state.
Former MCU fan, here.
1. Making the watching of movies & television show into homework (the hype was gone after Endgame).
2. Cutting out all the Avengers & replacing them with the bench-warmers & substitutes.
3. Trying to justify Scarlet Witch's horrible crimes.
4. Continuing after Thanos. Yeah, it's a double edged sword of "we wanna see what else happens in this universe!" but I don't really care about the B & C list characters teaming up to beat up Kang, AKA Big Villain #2. Nor do I care how they handle the third guy, if they keep going after that.
it continued after endgame
They forgot to make their current heroes cool and badass. Just look at Spider-Man, Hulk and Thor. They are emasculated joke characters now.
Too many Rick & Morty writers and other super green people who are just in it for the paycheck.
Iron Man died