The man fought a fricking ice elemental when he could have just let the ice witch ostracize herself and I'm expected to believe he was actually a bad guy all along?
I think Hans would have been dtf with Elsa, he's giving her interesting looks at the coronation. And he was definitely attracted to Anna at first, but then talking to and interacting with her killed that attraction
Hans actually seemed to genuinely pity Elsa. He was also the only one to get physically closer to Elsa than back away when she released the icy blast in the ballroom.
Yeah, and he was animated to have looks of compassion or whatever towards her at various stages, like at the coronation, and a lot of empathy at the dungeon.
He also managed to immediately connect with her and knew how to appeal to her with the "don't be the monster they fear you are" line. (Meanwhile Anna can't read Elsa at all, and tries to connect with her, but instead gets shot through the heart because instead of calming, she aggravates her)
It's so interesting. There's no way I can buy that he was plotting to "arrange for an accident" for Elsa at the time when they're in the ice palace, because why didn't he just let her take an arrow to the back? It's not his fault, it's Weselton's men, everyone saw the queen's gone crazy and is trying to impale people, Hans is engaged to the princess first in line to the throne. He could just comfort her and assume power. Just stand aside and claim "it was so fast, we were too late".
But nooo he saves her, from herself and the arrow, and brings her unharmed to the dungeon and pleads with her, full of empathy and politeness.
Even when he hears she can't stop it and realises it means she has to die, he looks distressed. When he turns away, his face sinks into a look of sadness where she can't see, as opposed to there being a barely concealed look like in front of the dignitaries when he's pretending to be devastated over Anna's death.
What the hell, movie. It's in total conflict with what he later claims his motivation or thought processes were.
Sacrificed so Elsa could be good.
Got the villain-card.
Hence the forced 180° which also lets him apparently think that he could just let Anna die in room and noone will go in, instead letting her percieved corpse in there rot.
>She killed her, honest - but DON'T go in, nothing to see there, just a corpse!
Jennifer Lee took a personal offense to him.
He was always gonna be the true villain >Frozen went through many different iterations, but here are some common elements from some of the early drafts: Frozen was to open with a prophecy that "a ruler with a frozen heart will bring destruction to the kingdom of Arendelle." We're then introduced to Anna, our pure-hearted heroine, and Elsa, an unrelated evil Snow Queen. We learn Elsa is a scorned woman; she was stood up at the altar on her wedding day and froze her own heart so she would never love again. Both Elsa and the audience assume she's the villain from the prophecy. Fast-forward to the final act: Elsa creates an army of snow monsters to attack our heroes while Kristoff has "a Han Solo moment" and comes to help Anna. To halt Elsa's attacking army, the two-faced Prince Hans triggers a massive avalanche—not caring that the avalanche also puts Anna, Elsa, and all of Arendelle in jeopardy. Anna realizes Elsa is their only hope, so she convinces her to use her powers to save the kingdom. The twist is that the prophecy from the beginning is actually not about Elsa, but about Hans—he's the one with a metaphorical frozen heart because he's an unfeeling sociopath. Elsa's heart is then unfrozen allowing her to love again.
The villain used the expectations and cliches against the protagonist the same way the movie used them to the audience.
The smile scene wasn't a problem for me. Why didn't he have Elsa die at the ice castle? Maybe he was trying to look good to the others (and there is a theory that he intentionally had the ice crashing down on her). Not sure why people just believed him when he said he and Anna said their wedding vows when they were the only people in the room though.
>Not sure why people just believed him when he said he and Anna said their wedding vows when they were the only people in the room though.
They were telling him to his face to abandon his second attempt at going to look for Anna to rescue her, and just abandon her to her fate and assume the position as the head of state. "You can't go out there, if anything happens to the princess, you are all that Arendelle has left".
And also, when he tells them Elsa froze Anna's heart which led to her death, he's not lying lying per se as that's what he thinks happened, that's how Anna told it to him. Elsa froze her heart, she'll die unless a true love's act saves her. But there's no true love, no one to love Anna - Elsa doesn't love her, hell she cursed her to death basically. Hands certainly doesn't love her, he can barely stand her. Servants are servants, employees, no true love there either. He didn't know about Kristoff or Olaf. And in any case, they didn't realise it has to be Anna's act out of true love SHE feels that'd do it, not someone else loving her.
So he skips ahead a bit, and says Anna's dead instead of saying she's about to die any moment.
But the wedding vows aren't what gives him power, theyre just nice extra legitimization decoration. Him having been left in official charge and having led well in a crisis, and all the nobility now thinking as the hands on temp regent he should just stay in power and let Anna get lost( in the winter without a horse or equipment) is what gives him power. The military follows him and his order to execute their own queen, they trust him over her and led them at the ice palace, that's what gives him power.
A villain is good when they can exploit the hero's greatest weakness.
Frozen is about the dangers of being too much of a shut-in (Elsa) and too much open (Anna). Elsa alienates everyone and allows an evil savvy guy exploit the situation. Anna blindly trust the guy and also only gives him more opportunities to usurp the throne.
Hans is openly villainous only in the first act, but all his actions were exploiting the heroines' weaknesses. He vows Anna, gaining her trust. He let's stupidly Anna rush after Elsa on her own, as quickly as she is stupid enough to appoint him a substitute ruler. He leads Elsa's army against her, gaining her soldiers' trust and nearly 'accidently' killing her. Moments before Anna returns the entire kingdom is ready to abandon both princesses just to have Hans in charge.
On the rewatch (or if you had been already spoiled), you know his true agenda and see him for a cunning opportunist he is.
What sucks about Frozen is not Hans, but Elsa learning to control her power in the most anticlimactic way possible. While Anna does learn a good lesson and fixes the mess she was in a big part responsible for, Elsa just solves her problems by realizing she always could've.
Sacrificed so Elsa could be good.
Got the villain-card.
Hence the forced 180° which also lets him apparently think that he could just let Anna die in room and noone will go in, instead letting her percieved corpse in there rot.
>She killed her, honest - but DON'T go in, nothing to see there, just a corpse!
How the frick did Olaf manage to get inside the castle? There must of been no guards around because if they saw this snow creature walking around they will immediately attack it considering that they know Elsa's ability to create living things.
They should bring him back and after getting kicked out of his country he becomes the leader of some bandit group or something and still wants to kill Elsa. Then over the course of the movie he realizes that he got what he wanted in being a leader and "king" but is the Bandit King or something and decides to stop trying to kill her.
Anna has to have the emotional growth to realize she was mistaken about her ideas on love as opposed to not actually needing to make any decisions herself as a result of reality being bashed on her head as a result of the guy she thought she like trying to kill her whole family.
He may be pale and blonde but he's a Sami, and as a member of the oppressed indigenous peoples is basically a poc
And somehow Elsa and Anna are half-Sami stand-ins. I don't think their mother was Northuldra but a runaway.
If he truly pitied Elsa he would've swiftly killed her while she was unconscious.
Hans probably was holding out for her to go all damsel-in-distress and lean onto him emotionally. Then instead of having to kill anyone, he could marry her, have a superweapon, and get to bang the most beautiful woman alive.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Hans probably was holding out for her to go all damsel-in-distress and lean onto him emotionally. Then instead of having to kill anyone, he could marry her, have a superweapon, and get to bang the most beautiful woman alive.
This could have been it. At this point he knew he didn't like Anna, so maybe he was hoping he could be the reliable emotional rock of "I'll take care of it and save you", and figure out how to tell Anna he's dumping her for her sister later - if she'd ever return.
He says Elsa was always his first choice, but she was so distant to everyone and not interested in suitors at all - well, now he knows why, and has an in compared to all the other guys.
But still, he looked really sad about her death even when he tried to hide his expression from her. It just doesn't make sense for him to be genuinely sad about her impending death, unless he actually was attracted to her at least a bit, or had some empathy or whatever
8 months ago
Anonymous
Both Hans and Elsa are characters with wasted potential. Even after the second movie i still think that Elsa is a boring and underdeveloped character.
8 months ago
Anonymous
It's the only reason that makes any sense as to why Hans saved Elsa in the ice castle battle.
What "immediate crush"?
Hans thought Anna was cute when they met at the pier, sure, but as soon as they started interacting at the ball his opinion of her plummeted so fast he was struggling to keep smiling by the end of Love is an Open Door, and his expression at "can I ask something crazy" resembles a grimace more than a smile.
He was desperate to marry out of the Southern Isles and saw his chance in how eager Anna was for interaction. But aside from initially finding her cute-looking, he doesn't like Anna at all and thinks she's an airhead
No, it does. If you look at his expressions, they become steadily more and more forced and he starts flashing "wtf" faces when she's not looking.
LIAOD was animated to show him growing increasingly uncomfortable with her but struggling to hide it from the start
8 months ago
Anonymous
continuing:
The problem is that he's trying to act enamored during the coronation ball in order to woo Anna, and because they have nice love duet and the narrative wants to dupe the audience, people fall for his act right alongside Anna.
But it's actually right there: his expressions become increasingly forced and he starts flashing really displeased looks at Anna the longer the night lasts. For examples, iirc at the "I love crazy" he hesitated and his expression is a bit too eager, too wide-eyed. Then at the sock sliding, when they hide from the guard he looks like he's uncomfortable and looks at her with a disapproving look which he quickly changes when she looks at him. By the time of "we finish each others -sandwiches" he gives a strong "what the fuuuck" look right before and during "that's what I was gonna say". Eventually when he goes for the proposal with "can I say something crazy," his face is really crazed, it caught my attention. And then when they're trying to ask for Elsa's blessing, he looks very different when he's nodding along with Anna's wedding ideas vs when he looks at Elsa, and his face kinda falls when Anna insists they should invite the brothers he just told her tormented him growing up to live with them at the palace, because it shows she either didn't listen at all or doesn't give a shit about him, and is only thinking about her own entertainment.
Seriously, knowing what we know, it's interesting to rewatch LIAOD and the "were getting married" scene, and really look at his expressions. Imo the animators did a great job. It's very easy to miss esp at first watch, but it's there.
Yes, I watched Frozen way too many times back in the day.
It honestly would have made more sense if the twist was that Hans’ kiss failed because he didn’t truly love her and it’s Elsa’s sisterly love that saved Anna. The movie didn’t benefit from a last second villain at all
He also comes off as far too likable and level headed, more than the main characters the audience is supposed to like. So they had to do something to knock him down a peg or two since he would have clearly been the superior love interest to Kristoff who is angry, standoffish, rude, and genuinely thinks about leaving Anna to die if he was not getting paid.
https://i.imgur.com/UCV2vug.jpg
What went wrong?
The villain used the expectations and cliches against the protagonist the same way the movie used them to the audience.
The smile scene wasn't a problem for me. Why didn't he have Elsa die at the ice castle? Maybe he was trying to look good to the others (and there is a theory that he intentionally had the ice crashing down on her). Not sure why people just believed him when he said he and Anna said their wedding vows when they were the only people in the room though.
It also seemed like the whole movie was setting up the Duke of Weaseltown to be the actual villain. and he just sort of dropped off and was forgotten halfway through.
He claims in the movie that three of his brothers pretended for two years that he was invisible. If he was telling the truth, that's a rather extreme prank.
There was a novelization called "A Frozen Heart". It tells the story in the movie by alternating between the perspectives of Anna and Hans. The scenes with Hans as the POV character offer some detail about his brothers. According to the book, Hans hated the Southern Isles because he had a poor relationship with most of his family members.
>Moana
I'm not sure if I would call it a villain. The "villain" wanted to stop her current conditions as much as the heroes did.
The only real villain in that movie is the crab
>who thinks he deserves everything without earning it.
No, that's Anna and it worked out for her
Hans actually earned the trust of Arendelle's population and military by proving himself a capable leader in a crisis
They had to ham it up how evil he is by giving him a Bond villain monologue, because otherwise the audience might think he's preferable to Kristoff, and they might notice he's way more competent at running the country than either for the frickup sisters who prioritize their emotions over duty and basically hysterically flail around and run away when crisis hits.
Idk, I feel like he was written to be a morally grey character, a backstabbing ruthless social climber who nonetheless has a good side and wants to be noticed, admired and recognised for his (actual) merits. But because both Elsa and Anna absolutely fricking suck at their one job, ie ruling Arendelle well enough as to not topple the monarchy, he had to be made cartoonishly mean so they could look better in comparison
>yes, Elsa and Anna almost killed a whole lot of people due to their incompetence and their solution was to run away and cry, and ok maybe that's not great in a head of state - but at least they're kind!
Right? As a princess, she's a vapid airhead who only thinks of dresses, boys, and her own entertainment - even though their parents are dead and the heir to the throne, her sister, is a shut-in to the point where people are wondering "where she's been". Anna's first in line to the throne, but does she realise that she should MAYBE start preparing for the possibility of having to ascend to the throne if Elsa's idk, sick or mentally unstable? No. Then she causes a public fight at the coronation because of her rash decision and insisting on having private family matters discussed in public, causing her sister to flip out and curse the land.
At least she has the sense to leave Hans in charge, before riding off into the wintry night in a goddamn ballgown. Predictably, she almost freezes to death, but is saved by the plot putting a shop in the middle of nowhere, containing and experienced outdoorsman to guide and transport her (she destroys his sled though). When she finds her sister, she immediately proceeds to push and corner her just like she did at the coronation, and once again, Elsa lashes out, this time cursing Anna to death. Nice, Anna, I see you learned fricking nothing from the first time?
She then antagonises a snow monster necessitating them jumping off a damn cliff. After Kristoff brings her back home, she tells Hans that Elsa is a sister-murderer and intentionally fatally cursed her heart, apparently not realising that Elsa having both caused the winter and now appearing to be a murderer probably won't do great things to her public image idk.
At least she has the grace to try to sacrifice herself for Elsa, accidentally saving them both and also letting Elsa figure out how to control her powers.
In the sequel, she shows she still doesn't think like a leader, doesn't concern her mind with Arendelle's state affairs much at all aside from enjoying interacting with the admiring commoners, instead is obsessively focused on Elsa, has horrible communication with Kristoff, and is still an emotional, impulsive moron who jumps to the worst possible conclusions and isn't able to calmly assess or discuss things.
Then when Elsa goes and dies, Anna cries, sings a song about doing the right thing, and then as head of state proceeds to -
try to destroy Arendelle, her ancestral homeland she's supposed to now lead and protect, because some group of foreigners she met like 15 mins ago could benefit from it a bit and she feels bad about how her ancestors treated them badly (to make Arendelle stronger, but who cares). And it has to be rectified now now now instead of figuring out a way to take down the dam without destroying Arendelle and making her subjects tent refugees in the winter in fantasy Norway ("most of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" - Queen Anna, probably).
So again, she reacts impulsively and emotionally, without the slightest thought to the consequences her actions might have. It's her thing. Causing disasters because she didn't think and just reacted in the moment, that's Anna.
I think it's treason. She tries to destroy Arendelle for the sake of a group of foreigners she happens to be related to.
So, does she learn anything at all from all these disasters she causes? No. The movie AWARDS her for this continuous bullshit by making her queen, and pretends she's shown at some point she would be able to handle leadership, or at least learn and grow into the role (wrong).
Sorry for the rant but I hate how she's portrayed as staggeringly, persistently incompetent, unable to learn from mistakes - AND a great role model who did nothing wrong and deserves rewards, just because she's pretty and kind, I guess. Girl power!
100% the first major crisis in her reign (be it a war, famine, etc...) she's gonna handle it poorly, the people will get mad, any attempt she makes at quelling dissent will just make everyone madder, dissent will turn to revolution, she'll be overthrown and likely executed
All because her sister who, while competent, was completely mad (at least from the people's perspective) and randomly abdicated due to voices she heard
That is how Queen Anna should be played out, but as long as Lee is in charge, Anna's gonna be the perfect queen to the perfect kingdom.
It's okay is Anna isn't intelligent or a leader. Most people aren't either. I think Anna would be happiest and best at being a preschool teacher or stay-at-home mom.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah shit writing would excuse any real consequences Anna would face
8 months ago
Anonymous
As if shit writing didn't save Anna's ass in the first two movies. She never learned she needed to to take a break from relationships and work on herself in the first one. The second movie rewarded her rash actions out of mourning. A real leader would have consulted with others about solutions instead of just taking it on herself with no questioning.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, if Lee wasn't in charge, Anna would 100% go the route of Nicholas II
Say what you will about Elsa, but at least she was semi-competent and likely wouldn't end her reign with her head off if he hadn't abdicated
8 months ago
Anonymous
I think we all would like to think that Anna's only queen temporarily as Elsa takes a gap year to "find herself'.
8 months ago
Anonymous
If Disney has any sense at all they'll bring Elsa back to take the throne in F3. Anna has her own charms but she just is not head-of-state material. Honestly I'd more see her travel the North with Kristoff and have adventures or something
8 months ago
Anonymous
Anna was unbearable in Frozen II, and that's saying a lot since Anna was already annoying in Frozen I.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I really hated the "ha ha misunderstandings ha ha he's trying to propose" dynamic they had. It killed the feeling that they have a good relationship, because she didn't even listen to him, their communication is shit.
8 months ago
Anonymous
She was toned down a lot in the first movie. There are a lot of deleted scenes that show off Anna is a constant trouble making fricking disaster for everyone around town. Constantly breaking stuff, causing accidents, sinking boats etc.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>If Disney has any sense at all
Well there's your problem
I'm convinced if Hans wasn't written to kill Elsa everybody would see him as a better endgame than Kristoff
This sounds more like shipper 'logic' and we wouldn't be having this conversation if not for thirsty girls making excuses and guys self inserting into him for whatever reason.
>both Elsa and Anna absolutely fricking suck at their one job, ie ruling Arendelle well enough as to not topple the monarchy
It’s almost like locking your two heirs in a castle with no real training or social interaction was a bad idea
>Ah, Mr. Bond. In 2 minutes you will completely be covered by acid and die a horrible death!
Now excuse me, I have to go to take over the world, there is NO way you can escape anyway!
Probably explainable that it was Olaf's act of love rather than the fire that warmed her up magically, but since Olaf isn't a real person it doesn't do the trick because he is just a creation of Elsa's magic.
Very shit character and very stark change in personality. Children's movies keep repeating this shit and I hate it. Ruby gillman and zootopia do the same shit.
He exists solely for a twist that you can see coming the second he shows up on screen. Hans exists to make Elsa look better but they figured out at some point that her shtick of running to her room and crying like a whiny teenage girl made him look a lot better than her, so they made him comically evil to compensate.
when I first heard they were making a Frozen 2 I immediately said this has a huge chance of being really fricking awful.
All they ever needed to do was make another very shallow, surface level only magical adventure where Elsa, Anna, and Hans go on some little adventure, sing a few songs and make friends etc. Nothing else, nothing deep. And the worst fricking thing they can do is get weird with it, start exploring where the magic comes from, or make it some kind of creepy existential, cerebral piece about Elsa not fitting in, being too different, or getting too deep into explaining shit and it turns the movie boring.
and they decided to do the latter, and made one boring as shit movie that everyone likes to pretend never happened. Who in the frick wants to see Olaf die on screen? What the frick?
I figured you'd have posted the one from Frozen 1 Life's Too Short but that was cut because they changed the story so much.
The cut Krostoff rocket song was much better than the cut Anna bike song
Anna should have been the one to propose to Kristoff. Now I want Kristofferson to break it off with her, probably for being too clingy.
I figured you'd have posted the one from Frozen 1 Life's Too Short but that was cut because they changed the story so much.
The cut Krostoff rocket song was much better than the cut Anna bike song
I liked the song "Home" but it did sound too much like "Riptide"
>no don't you understand in order to have two characters have an awkward relationship we can't actually have them ever have to them being awkward together as opposed to them having conflicts because of their issues.
Elsa or Anaa don't inspire discussion about the film or their characters, though. It's just all muh dick lusting and repeated phrases about >tfw no Anna/Elsa gf
and sighing about how perfect they are
We spent years talking about them in regards to the films, but I guess most people got exhausted by that, so now they're discussing boring characters like Hans. And yes, Elsa IS perfect.
He tried to be an antagonist in a Disney movie.
The man fought a fricking ice elemental when he could have just let the ice witch ostracize herself and I'm expected to believe he was actually a bad guy all along?
he was a straight white man.
>Straight
>Doesn't want to frick Elsa or Anna
[X] doubt
I think Hans would have been dtf with Elsa, he's giving her interesting looks at the coronation. And he was definitely attracted to Anna at first, but then talking to and interacting with her killed that attraction
It would we weird dating someone your sister wanted to marry, what Is this, Star Vs?
That's royalty baby.
Hans actually seemed to genuinely pity Elsa. He was also the only one to get physically closer to Elsa than back away when she released the icy blast in the ballroom.
Yeah, and he was animated to have looks of compassion or whatever towards her at various stages, like at the coronation, and a lot of empathy at the dungeon.
He also managed to immediately connect with her and knew how to appeal to her with the "don't be the monster they fear you are" line. (Meanwhile Anna can't read Elsa at all, and tries to connect with her, but instead gets shot through the heart because instead of calming, she aggravates her)
It's so interesting. There's no way I can buy that he was plotting to "arrange for an accident" for Elsa at the time when they're in the ice palace, because why didn't he just let her take an arrow to the back? It's not his fault, it's Weselton's men, everyone saw the queen's gone crazy and is trying to impale people, Hans is engaged to the princess first in line to the throne. He could just comfort her and assume power. Just stand aside and claim "it was so fast, we were too late".
But nooo he saves her, from herself and the arrow, and brings her unharmed to the dungeon and pleads with her, full of empathy and politeness.
Even when he hears she can't stop it and realises it means she has to die, he looks distressed. When he turns away, his face sinks into a look of sadness where she can't see, as opposed to there being a barely concealed look like in front of the dignitaries when he's pretending to be devastated over Anna's death.
What the hell, movie. It's in total conflict with what he later claims his motivation or thought processes were.
This. His interactions with Elsa make zero sense with his later villainy.
If he truly pitied Elsa he would've swiftly killed her while she was unconscious.
Kristoff is whiter than him
He may be pale and blonde but he's a Sami, and as a member of the oppressed indigenous peoples is basically a poc
Pfft so what, celts are paler than most europeans and theyre always whining about oppression
Disney remembered that the story has to have a villain halfway through the movie.
He was always gonna be the true villain
>Frozen went through many different iterations, but here are some common elements from some of the early drafts: Frozen was to open with a prophecy that "a ruler with a frozen heart will bring destruction to the kingdom of Arendelle." We're then introduced to Anna, our pure-hearted heroine, and Elsa, an unrelated evil Snow Queen. We learn Elsa is a scorned woman; she was stood up at the altar on her wedding day and froze her own heart so she would never love again. Both Elsa and the audience assume she's the villain from the prophecy. Fast-forward to the final act: Elsa creates an army of snow monsters to attack our heroes while Kristoff has "a Han Solo moment" and comes to help Anna. To halt Elsa's attacking army, the two-faced Prince Hans triggers a massive avalanche—not caring that the avalanche also puts Anna, Elsa, and all of Arendelle in jeopardy. Anna realizes Elsa is their only hope, so she convinces her to use her powers to save the kingdom. The twist is that the prophecy from the beginning is actually not about Elsa, but about Hans—he's the one with a metaphorical frozen heart because he's an unfeeling sociopath. Elsa's heart is then unfrozen allowing her to love again.
https://ew.com/movies/2017/03/29/frozen-original-ending/
He still sounds like a one-note twist villain
>a ruler with a frozen heart will bring destruction to the kingdom of Arendelle.
Weirdly this now refers to Anna in the final version
The villain used the expectations and cliches against the protagonist the same way the movie used them to the audience.
The smile scene wasn't a problem for me. Why didn't he have Elsa die at the ice castle? Maybe he was trying to look good to the others (and there is a theory that he intentionally had the ice crashing down on her). Not sure why people just believed him when he said he and Anna said their wedding vows when they were the only people in the room though.
>Not sure why people just believed him when he said he and Anna said their wedding vows when they were the only people in the room though.
They were telling him to his face to abandon his second attempt at going to look for Anna to rescue her, and just abandon her to her fate and assume the position as the head of state. "You can't go out there, if anything happens to the princess, you are all that Arendelle has left".
And also, when he tells them Elsa froze Anna's heart which led to her death, he's not lying lying per se as that's what he thinks happened, that's how Anna told it to him. Elsa froze her heart, she'll die unless a true love's act saves her. But there's no true love, no one to love Anna - Elsa doesn't love her, hell she cursed her to death basically. Hands certainly doesn't love her, he can barely stand her. Servants are servants, employees, no true love there either. He didn't know about Kristoff or Olaf. And in any case, they didn't realise it has to be Anna's act out of true love SHE feels that'd do it, not someone else loving her.
So he skips ahead a bit, and says Anna's dead instead of saying she's about to die any moment.
But the wedding vows aren't what gives him power, theyre just nice extra legitimization decoration. Him having been left in official charge and having led well in a crisis, and all the nobility now thinking as the hands on temp regent he should just stay in power and let Anna get lost( in the winter without a horse or equipment) is what gives him power. The military follows him and his order to execute their own queen, they trust him over her and led them at the ice palace, that's what gives him power.
It's a coup.
This.
A villain is good when they can exploit the hero's greatest weakness.
Frozen is about the dangers of being too much of a shut-in (Elsa) and too much open (Anna). Elsa alienates everyone and allows an evil savvy guy exploit the situation. Anna blindly trust the guy and also only gives him more opportunities to usurp the throne.
Hans is openly villainous only in the first act, but all his actions were exploiting the heroines' weaknesses. He vows Anna, gaining her trust. He let's stupidly Anna rush after Elsa on her own, as quickly as she is stupid enough to appoint him a substitute ruler. He leads Elsa's army against her, gaining her soldiers' trust and nearly 'accidently' killing her. Moments before Anna returns the entire kingdom is ready to abandon both princesses just to have Hans in charge.
On the rewatch (or if you had been already spoiled), you know his true agenda and see him for a cunning opportunist he is.
What sucks about Frozen is not Hans, but Elsa learning to control her power in the most anticlimactic way possible. While Anna does learn a good lesson and fixes the mess she was in a big part responsible for, Elsa just solves her problems by realizing she always could've.
>in the final act
Sacrificed so Elsa could be good.
Got the villain-card.
Hence the forced 180° which also lets him apparently think that he could just let Anna die in room and noone will go in, instead letting her percieved corpse in there rot.
>She killed her, honest - but DON'T go in, nothing to see there, just a corpse!
How the frick did Olaf manage to get inside the castle? There must of been no guards around because if they saw this snow creature walking around they will immediately attack it considering that they know Elsa's ability to create living things.
They should bring him back and after getting kicked out of his country he becomes the leader of some bandit group or something and still wants to kill Elsa. Then over the course of the movie he realizes that he got what he wanted in being a leader and "king" but is the Bandit King or something and decides to stop trying to kill her.
Jennifer Lee took a personal offense to him.
He literally reminds her of her exes
It's why he still gets shat on whenever there's a chance
Pic fricking related as well as kickstarting the poorly done twist villain trend
I'm convinced if Hans wasn't written to kill Elsa everybody would see him as a better endgame than Kristoff
He should've just kissed Anna and both be devastated it doesn't work because their immediate crush isn't true love
And then what? Hans just hanging around awkwardly while Anna tries to figure out who truly loves her in the world?
Yes, it was established before the twist that he was cool enough to do that.
Anna has to have the emotional growth to realize she was mistaken about her ideas on love as opposed to not actually needing to make any decisions herself as a result of reality being bashed on her head as a result of the guy she thought she like trying to kill her whole family.
Can't have the princess choose between two guys.
And somehow Elsa and Anna are half-Sami stand-ins. I don't think their mother was Northuldra but a runaway.
Hans probably was holding out for her to go all damsel-in-distress and lean onto him emotionally. Then instead of having to kill anyone, he could marry her, have a superweapon, and get to bang the most beautiful woman alive.
>Hans probably was holding out for her to go all damsel-in-distress and lean onto him emotionally. Then instead of having to kill anyone, he could marry her, have a superweapon, and get to bang the most beautiful woman alive.
This could have been it. At this point he knew he didn't like Anna, so maybe he was hoping he could be the reliable emotional rock of "I'll take care of it and save you", and figure out how to tell Anna he's dumping her for her sister later - if she'd ever return.
He says Elsa was always his first choice, but she was so distant to everyone and not interested in suitors at all - well, now he knows why, and has an in compared to all the other guys.
But still, he looked really sad about her death even when he tried to hide his expression from her. It just doesn't make sense for him to be genuinely sad about her impending death, unless he actually was attracted to her at least a bit, or had some empathy or whatever
Both Hans and Elsa are characters with wasted potential. Even after the second movie i still think that Elsa is a boring and underdeveloped character.
It's the only reason that makes any sense as to why Hans saved Elsa in the ice castle battle.
What "immediate crush"?
Hans thought Anna was cute when they met at the pier, sure, but as soon as they started interacting at the ball his opinion of her plummeted so fast he was struggling to keep smiling by the end of Love is an Open Door, and his expression at "can I ask something crazy" resembles a grimace more than a smile.
He was desperate to marry out of the Southern Isles and saw his chance in how eager Anna was for interaction. But aside from initially finding her cute-looking, he doesn't like Anna at all and thinks she's an airhead
What anon meant is that the story should've gone with
instead of what you said. And what you described is only true becuase of the twist, it doesn't really look like that.
No, it does. If you look at his expressions, they become steadily more and more forced and he starts flashing "wtf" faces when she's not looking.
LIAOD was animated to show him growing increasingly uncomfortable with her but struggling to hide it from the start
continuing:
The problem is that he's trying to act enamored during the coronation ball in order to woo Anna, and because they have nice love duet and the narrative wants to dupe the audience, people fall for his act right alongside Anna.
But it's actually right there: his expressions become increasingly forced and he starts flashing really displeased looks at Anna the longer the night lasts. For examples, iirc at the "I love crazy" he hesitated and his expression is a bit too eager, too wide-eyed. Then at the sock sliding, when they hide from the guard he looks like he's uncomfortable and looks at her with a disapproving look which he quickly changes when she looks at him. By the time of "we finish each others -sandwiches" he gives a strong "what the fuuuck" look right before and during "that's what I was gonna say". Eventually when he goes for the proposal with "can I say something crazy," his face is really crazed, it caught my attention. And then when they're trying to ask for Elsa's blessing, he looks very different when he's nodding along with Anna's wedding ideas vs when he looks at Elsa, and his face kinda falls when Anna insists they should invite the brothers he just told her tormented him growing up to live with them at the palace, because it shows she either didn't listen at all or doesn't give a shit about him, and is only thinking about her own entertainment.
Seriously, knowing what we know, it's interesting to rewatch LIAOD and the "were getting married" scene, and really look at his expressions. Imo the animators did a great job. It's very easy to miss esp at first watch, but it's there.
Yes, I watched Frozen way too many times back in the day.
It's not even the only problem with the story, as others have mentioned ITT. Frozen has always been an overrated bad movie.
It honestly would have made more sense if the twist was that Hans’ kiss failed because he didn’t truly love her and it’s Elsa’s sisterly love that saved Anna. The movie didn’t benefit from a last second villain at all
He also comes off as far too likable and level headed, more than the main characters the audience is supposed to like. So they had to do something to knock him down a peg or two since he would have clearly been the superior love interest to Kristoff who is angry, standoffish, rude, and genuinely thinks about leaving Anna to die if he was not getting paid.
It also seemed like the whole movie was setting up the Duke of Weaseltown to be the actual villain. and he just sort of dropped off and was forgotten halfway through.
He was a narcissist
?t=7
Nothing, he's perfect. He just got fricked because he was in a Disney movie
>tfw I will never see Helsa where Hans convinces Elsa he loves her and he uses her powers to conquer the land
>named after the author of the original story
What did Disney mean by that?
They're all named after the dude sans Olaf and Elsa
>Hans Christian Anderson
>Hans Krisoff Anna Sven
More like they were shitting on HCA and what he stood for; that’s why they changed so much of his story and made him the villain.
Seems like a typical North German upbringing.
Yes
What if Hans' brothers were big scary Prussians?
Wasn't there a side story where Hans was abused by his family members and he suffers trauma?
He claims in the movie that three of his brothers pretended for two years that he was invisible. If he was telling the truth, that's a rather extreme prank.
There was a novelization called "A Frozen Heart". It tells the story in the movie by alternating between the perspectives of Anna and Hans. The scenes with Hans as the POV character offer some detail about his brothers. According to the book, Hans hated the Southern Isles because he had a poor relationship with most of his family members.
I would like this story.
has there been a disney movie since little mermaid where the villain was female?
Tangled, Zootopia, Moana
>Moana
I'm not sure if I would call it a villain. The "villain" wanted to stop her current conditions as much as the heroes did.
The only real villain in that movie is the crab
Being the 7th born and acting like a typical millenial who thinks he deserves everything without earning it.
13th born
>who thinks he deserves everything without earning it.
No, that's Anna and it worked out for her
Hans actually earned the trust of Arendelle's population and military by proving himself a capable leader in a crisis
Being a dick.
Nothing. He was the villain and he was a good one at that.
I would agree, but he was not particulary memorable, he's servicable but certainly no Hades or Frolo.
Hans is a lousy villain, but he would make an incredible hero.
They had to ham it up how evil he is by giving him a Bond villain monologue, because otherwise the audience might think he's preferable to Kristoff, and they might notice he's way more competent at running the country than either for the frickup sisters who prioritize their emotions over duty and basically hysterically flail around and run away when crisis hits.
Idk, I feel like he was written to be a morally grey character, a backstabbing ruthless social climber who nonetheless has a good side and wants to be noticed, admired and recognised for his (actual) merits. But because both Elsa and Anna absolutely fricking suck at their one job, ie ruling Arendelle well enough as to not topple the monarchy, he had to be made cartoonishly mean so they could look better in comparison
>yes, Elsa and Anna almost killed a whole lot of people due to their incompetence and their solution was to run away and cry, and ok maybe that's not great in a head of state - but at least they're kind!
Second movie had Anna intentionally attempt to destroy the entire village. Then she's awarded by becoming queen...
Right? As a princess, she's a vapid airhead who only thinks of dresses, boys, and her own entertainment - even though their parents are dead and the heir to the throne, her sister, is a shut-in to the point where people are wondering "where she's been". Anna's first in line to the throne, but does she realise that she should MAYBE start preparing for the possibility of having to ascend to the throne if Elsa's idk, sick or mentally unstable? No. Then she causes a public fight at the coronation because of her rash decision and insisting on having private family matters discussed in public, causing her sister to flip out and curse the land.
At least she has the sense to leave Hans in charge, before riding off into the wintry night in a goddamn ballgown. Predictably, she almost freezes to death, but is saved by the plot putting a shop in the middle of nowhere, containing and experienced outdoorsman to guide and transport her (she destroys his sled though). When she finds her sister, she immediately proceeds to push and corner her just like she did at the coronation, and once again, Elsa lashes out, this time cursing Anna to death. Nice, Anna, I see you learned fricking nothing from the first time?
She then antagonises a snow monster necessitating them jumping off a damn cliff. After Kristoff brings her back home, she tells Hans that Elsa is a sister-murderer and intentionally fatally cursed her heart, apparently not realising that Elsa having both caused the winter and now appearing to be a murderer probably won't do great things to her public image idk.
At least she has the grace to try to sacrifice herself for Elsa, accidentally saving them both and also letting Elsa figure out how to control her powers.
How long you wanna bet she lasts before being overthrown
Jennifer Lee is in charge. Anna will be a perfect ruler. Elsa will frick off in the woods and become a lesbian.
In the sequel, she shows she still doesn't think like a leader, doesn't concern her mind with Arendelle's state affairs much at all aside from enjoying interacting with the admiring commoners, instead is obsessively focused on Elsa, has horrible communication with Kristoff, and is still an emotional, impulsive moron who jumps to the worst possible conclusions and isn't able to calmly assess or discuss things.
Then when Elsa goes and dies, Anna cries, sings a song about doing the right thing, and then as head of state proceeds to -
try to destroy Arendelle, her ancestral homeland she's supposed to now lead and protect, because some group of foreigners she met like 15 mins ago could benefit from it a bit and she feels bad about how her ancestors treated them badly (to make Arendelle stronger, but who cares). And it has to be rectified now now now instead of figuring out a way to take down the dam without destroying Arendelle and making her subjects tent refugees in the winter in fantasy Norway ("most of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" - Queen Anna, probably).
So again, she reacts impulsively and emotionally, without the slightest thought to the consequences her actions might have. It's her thing. Causing disasters because she didn't think and just reacted in the moment, that's Anna.
I think it's treason. She tries to destroy Arendelle for the sake of a group of foreigners she happens to be related to.
So, does she learn anything at all from all these disasters she causes? No. The movie AWARDS her for this continuous bullshit by making her queen, and pretends she's shown at some point she would be able to handle leadership, or at least learn and grow into the role (wrong).
Sorry for the rant but I hate how she's portrayed as staggeringly, persistently incompetent, unable to learn from mistakes - AND a great role model who did nothing wrong and deserves rewards, just because she's pretty and kind, I guess. Girl power!
100% the first major crisis in her reign (be it a war, famine, etc...) she's gonna handle it poorly, the people will get mad, any attempt she makes at quelling dissent will just make everyone madder, dissent will turn to revolution, she'll be overthrown and likely executed
All because her sister who, while competent, was completely mad (at least from the people's perspective) and randomly abdicated due to voices she heard
That is how Queen Anna should be played out, but as long as Lee is in charge, Anna's gonna be the perfect queen to the perfect kingdom.
It's okay is Anna isn't intelligent or a leader. Most people aren't either. I think Anna would be happiest and best at being a preschool teacher or stay-at-home mom.
Yeah shit writing would excuse any real consequences Anna would face
As if shit writing didn't save Anna's ass in the first two movies. She never learned she needed to to take a break from relationships and work on herself in the first one. The second movie rewarded her rash actions out of mourning. A real leader would have consulted with others about solutions instead of just taking it on herself with no questioning.
Yeah, if Lee wasn't in charge, Anna would 100% go the route of Nicholas II
Say what you will about Elsa, but at least she was semi-competent and likely wouldn't end her reign with her head off if he hadn't abdicated
I think we all would like to think that Anna's only queen temporarily as Elsa takes a gap year to "find herself'.
If Disney has any sense at all they'll bring Elsa back to take the throne in F3. Anna has her own charms but she just is not head-of-state material. Honestly I'd more see her travel the North with Kristoff and have adventures or something
Anna was unbearable in Frozen II, and that's saying a lot since Anna was already annoying in Frozen I.
I really hated the "ha ha misunderstandings ha ha he's trying to propose" dynamic they had. It killed the feeling that they have a good relationship, because she didn't even listen to him, their communication is shit.
She was toned down a lot in the first movie. There are a lot of deleted scenes that show off Anna is a constant trouble making fricking disaster for everyone around town. Constantly breaking stuff, causing accidents, sinking boats etc.
>If Disney has any sense at all
Well there's your problem
This sounds more like shipper 'logic' and we wouldn't be having this conversation if not for thirsty girls making excuses and guys self inserting into him for whatever reason.
Based on what? He actually is written in a nonsensical, self conflicting way
>both Elsa and Anna absolutely fricking suck at their one job, ie ruling Arendelle well enough as to not topple the monarchy
It’s almost like locking your two heirs in a castle with no real training or social interaction was a bad idea
He should've either killed Anna immediately or stayed to make sure she died. Typical amateur villain mistake of not monitoring the guy they want dead.
>Ah, Mr. Bond. In 2 minutes you will completely be covered by acid and die a horrible death!
Now excuse me, I have to go to take over the world, there is NO way you can escape anyway!
What confuses me was that Anna could barley move until Olaf lit up the fire, but she's able to run out into the fricking blizzard just fine.
Probably explainable that it was Olaf's act of love rather than the fire that warmed her up magically, but since Olaf isn't a real person it doesn't do the trick because he is just a creation of Elsa's magic.
Very shit character and very stark change in personality. Children's movies keep repeating this shit and I hate it. Ruby gillman and zootopia do the same shit.
He exists solely for a twist that you can see coming the second he shows up on screen. Hans exists to make Elsa look better but they figured out at some point that her shtick of running to her room and crying like a whiny teenage girl made him look a lot better than her, so they made him comically evil to compensate.
All that was missing was for him to put on a mustache to dramatically twirl
That was this guy's job, but for someone reason the writers never did anything interesting with him.
gingers are evil
It amazmes me that there two diferent porn games were he is the protag.
Two? I know of bad manners, what's the other one?
Bound and Frozen by DaloKnight.
making him a villain
Redeemed Hans + Snow Queen Elsa = Billions of $ in Merchandise
I don't think Frozen II even cracked a billion in toy sales. It was that boring. What little girl wants an RC ice canoe of Anna and Olaf?
AAA Such wasted potential, it's a tragedy
when I first heard they were making a Frozen 2 I immediately said this has a huge chance of being really fricking awful.
All they ever needed to do was make another very shallow, surface level only magical adventure where Elsa, Anna, and Hans go on some little adventure, sing a few songs and make friends etc. Nothing else, nothing deep. And the worst fricking thing they can do is get weird with it, start exploring where the magic comes from, or make it some kind of creepy existential, cerebral piece about Elsa not fitting in, being too different, or getting too deep into explaining shit and it turns the movie boring.
and they decided to do the latter, and made one boring as shit movie that everyone likes to pretend never happened. Who in the frick wants to see Olaf die on screen? What the frick?
Good song, of course deleted.
I figured you'd have posted the one from Frozen 1 Life's Too Short but that was cut because they changed the story so much.
The cut Krostoff rocket song was much better than the cut Anna bike song
Anna should have been the one to propose to Kristoff. Now I want Kristofferson to break it off with her, probably for being too clingy.
I liked the song "Home" but it did sound too much like "Riptide"
>no don't you understand in order to have two characters have an awkward relationship we can't actually have them ever have to them being awkward together as opposed to them having conflicts because of their issues.
oh
It's been 10 years. let it go
Never!
So we're all in agreement? Hans didn't do wrong as much as the writer fricked up.
I'm bumping this thread one more time before bed. Hans is the best character in Frozen.
I actually think so too, yep
You misspelled "Elsa"
Elsa or Anaa don't inspire discussion about the film or their characters, though. It's just all muh dick lusting and repeated phrases about
>tfw no Anna/Elsa gf
and sighing about how perfect they are
We spent years talking about them in regards to the films, but I guess most people got exhausted by that, so now they're discussing boring characters like Hans.
And yes, Elsa IS perfect.
I mean, Frozen II was a boring cluster duck, so...
*ClusterFRICK
Now all of china knows you typed this on your phone.
They were probably talking about how poorly written they were
That whole movie was poorly written, and yes, there was a lot of discussion about that, too.
Unironically one of the ever Disney villains
What do you guys think of Disneys better twist villains like King Candy/Turbo?
he was supposed to be the protagonist.
He was a dumb twist villain