What will it take to bring back theatrical 2D animaton?
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What will it take to bring back theatrical 2D animaton?
What will it take to bring back theatrical 2D animaton?
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Some arbitrary numbers to convince invertors.
Look outside the US
animating in 2d takes skill and meritocracy is dead in the west
3D takes skill
not nearly as much as drawing
NTA but you autists seriously need to stop looking at animation this way. It's just a different medium. There's not a low or high effort type of animation, it's all entirely dependent on how much time and effort you're willing to put into whatever you're using.
No one is arguing the merits of 3D vs 2D. It's just an objective fact that it is way more time + money to get acceptable results with 2D and it's much harder to move things around once the shot is done.
Disney has been using 3D to cut costs of animating by hand since Cinderella and the Lion King https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFL5xbxc0AY&t=910s before that they were rotoscoping
It is even easier to do 3D today than it was back then too, since we have tools like Hoodini, PBR textures, the physics tools that are used in CGI (forgot what it's called, but it was originally intended for games), physics based animations like Cascadeur (Maya also has tools for this, etc...
Even 3d artists would agree >>>/3/
>It's just an objective fact that it is way more time + money to get acceptable results with 2D
Sure, if you ignore literally every facet of reality and pretend we can't easily look up most budgets of feature films. If you just turtle up and ignore that Lion King adjusted for inflation cost 20 million less than Despicable Me 2, I say that again Lion King cost 20 million LESS than Despicable Me 2 ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION(It's much steeper in raw numbers), then sure, it's an objective fact.
Don't look up How To Train Your Dragon's budget and realize the biggest name in it is Jonah Hill after 3 consecutive bombs or your head might explode. It is well known and one of the easiest things in the world to look up to see that CGI, objectively, has been more expensive than 2D since it's inception, and even the highest quality stuff like Ghibli films come in vastly underneath cheap shlock like Chicken Little. Ponyo was 30 million, Chicken Little was 135 million dollars.
TLDR get out of here with that dumb shit and just do basic ass budget lookups before you say something that stupid again.
>Movies where half the cast are a-list celebrities cost more
Wow you sure showed me.
where half the cast are a-list celebrities cost more
Oh holy shit your brain really did pop after looking up How To Train Your Dragon, huh. Who the frick could possibly be A-list on that roster?
Also I love the implication was that somehow Lion King wasn't filled with A-List actors. Turtle harder buddy you'll find someone scared of google eventually.
No I stopped reading after you compared Despicable Me to Lion King.
In the past 3d was used to help speed up the 2d process but I guess it changed.
>No I stopped reading after you compared Despicable Me to Lion King.
You stopped reading when I compared the budgets of what was at the time Disney's highest budget 2D animated movie ever that still to this day holds up as one of the best movies in terms of animation period, and a rapidly pushed out CGI film who's director literally bragged they had come in majorly under costs due to cheaping out on assets and locations that still somehow came out to be more expensive?
You know I was honestly just poking fun when I said if you ignore every facet of reality it's an objective fact, but you sure put that to the test.
where half the cast are a-list celebrities cost more
Hey anon guess the movie, here's a hint it cost 180 million dollars to make.
Ben Burtt
Elissa Knight
Jeff Garlin
Fred Willard
John Ratzenberger
Kathy Najimy
Sigourney Weaver
This film costs 200m and has a cast of literal goddamn whos
Why are movie budgets so bloated nowadays?
The Bad Guys, Mario, and Puss in Boots only had half the cost each and their visuals hold up.
Even those older movies adjusted for inflation still cost pennies of the dollar compared to every CGI movie we get now.
Thats good that means we are hopefully going to see new names pop up rather than fricking seth rogan and his egotistical "I only voice characters with my real voice" ass
Its time for the new generation of celebrities to appear and not just the women
Dudev I draw and I also love 3D. But you need more skill to put out a Disney level movie. Period. There are just not enough skilled animators left.
>There are just not enough skilled animators left.
There absolutely are and make it all the time, Green Eggs and Ham came out not that long ago and it has some pretty fricking good animation. What's more, considering it's budget, you could make a literal trilogy of movies with that level of animation for the exact same cost as Abominable. Do you remember Abominable? It cost the same as 6 hours of Green Eggs and Ham level animation, with that celebrity voice cast.
This is not Disney level.
Depends on the Disney? Home on the Range never moved this good.
Way less time + effort.
Learn how the graphs work. It's literally just bullshit maths thrown over movements because 3D is fine. But it's not an art. It's more maths and figuring out how to paint a scene. More cinematic? Sure. More artistic? Nope.gif
>What will it take to bring back theatrical 2D animaton?
Software that can simulate 2D.
/thread
it would be puppet animation with extra work on top. To do what a skilled animator can do in 3d. Its even happening right now, with Spiderman and soon Ninja turtles. All that has the visual complexity of Klaus, in principle, and that was 2d with extra rendering.
whats with these shitty capchas, 5 tries, do they recognize the spacebar or not.
Dissolution of hollywood. 2D animation doesn't work in the modern industry because the investment and return is so much smaller than cgi. Lilo & Stitch only made 35 million on the opening weekend. You can't afford that kind of opening when you have to hire Hollywood stars to do all the major voices. Dwayne Johnson was paid 21 million to play the god guy in Moana.
Use cheaper voice actors.
Yeah and as long as Hollywood exists executives are gonna insist on using big names and slapping them on posters.
>You can't afford that kind of opening when you have to hire hollywood stars to do all the major voices.
Most of Disney's best movies were with no name stage actors.
It wasn't until Robin Williams voiced the genie in Aladdin that suddenly we needed the rock in every protagonist role.
A cheaper way to make quality 2D animation so more smaller studios can do them and bigger studios are allowed to take chances. 3D works because its chance for success is much higher than 2D. You think some of the 3D flops are bad, it'd be 10x worse if they were 2D.
Will rigged animation ever become acceptable? It's pretty damn cheap. Horse movie cost 6.5m and TTG was 10m. Wouldn't be shocked if some studio takes a blumhouse approach and make rigged stuff on micro budgets.
Not on a high budget
I mean that is cheaper, but you can get Winnie the Pooh or Ponyo or Demon Slayer level animation for about 30 million, which is about 1/5th a normal Disney CGI movie and quiet a lot down from 200 million, which is a normal Pixar budget. Seriously Pixar hasn't done a sub 100 million movie since, what, Nemo? After Cars I don't think a single one was under 150 million, as mentioned the vast majority are 200 million. Think about that, you could make 7 movies with GHIBLI level of quality for the cost of one Lightyear, 2d is just plain cheap as hell compared to CGI on the whole. Also the Horse Movie isn't rigged animation, it's a CGI blend.
probably an indie company making a fluke hit, and not even then. the pipelines of the current animation studios are all set up for 2d. plus, there is ways to innovate 3d coming out all the time, the best 2d work ever done has already been done.
i wonder if AI will ever get us to this point
*set up for 3d, even
>the best 2d work ever done has already been done.
I disagree. Maybe in terms of animation it has been done but in terms of direction? Hell no. There are 1000 ways to direct a 2D movies that haven't been explored.
direction yes, but all the technique cannot be improved upon.
i think 2d enjoyers should not be looking for theatrical movies to make a reoccurance, but miniseries, which can be made at lower budget with less stakes
>i wonder if AI will ever get us to this point
Frick no, the technology is inherently incompatible with animation and that entire scene is filed with nothing but grifters that already poisoned the well for the mainstream. The reputation alone is enough to drive away anyone with self-respect to work with it, let alone anyone that would want to watch it.
Based on what I've read from anons a couple threads ago, unionizing 3D animators ought to do it.
>Bring back 2d animation.
>shows cel-shaded robot
You're not making that good of a case for 2d OP.
>treasure planet is about half and half
>lilo and stitch made most of the cars and aircrafts cgi
Op doesnt know what he wants, it sure as frick isnt 2d animation.
>2004 : Teacher's Pet, Home on the Range, SpongeBob movie
>2005 : Pooh's Heffalump
>2006 : Curious George, Bambi 2
>2007 : The Simpsons Movie
>2009 : Princess and the Frog
Only theatrical american 2D films of the 00s after 2003, which had the highest grossing animation film ever at the time : Finding Nemo.
>Bambi 2
they actually did this?
It was a theatrical release in many countries.
you finally getting laid. so sadly that will never happen.
Yes it will. Come here
AI.
Why are you guys so out of the loop on the CARTOON board? Sony Animations is going to preview Genndy's 2D movie this week. Confirmed a theatrical release.
whats it about?
A dog's night out.
Before he gets his nuts chopped off.
One movie only you know of is not a good example. Disney/Pixar, Dreamworks, Illumination exclusively make 3D releases.
Your example would have even been worse if you said anime like Suzume.
I WANT 2D back but holding my breath would have killed me.
>Suzume
I genuinely am shocked more companies aren't trying to grab feature anime since that movie made 320 million on a 30 million budget.
Disney does try to grab up anime to exclusively dub. And Netflix does strangle anime on their platform. And Sony holds Crunchyroll. But yeah not sure either.
Theatrical american 2D films became hit or miss in those last years. For every Lilo & Stitch, there was a Titan AE.
But that also applies to CG movies.
For every Frozen there's a Lightyear.
>Other people should risk their millions of dollars so that I can get the entertainment I want
How about the opposite, you go to work, take your cash and produce a movie like that.
A Phil Collins soundtrack.
Phil Collins needs a rival to push him back into the soundtrack production game.
What's Peter Gabriel doing these days?
>What will it take to bring back theatrical 2D animaton?
2d animation being able to print a metric shitton of money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_animated_films
>The Lion King remake made almost double the original
>Shitty sequels mogging the frick out of the entirety of traditional animation
The sad thing is we still have traditional animation.
It's just all Netflix IP cash grabs and/or wanna-be anime.
The only thing that'd bring it back is some sort of revolutionary tools to make the process cheaper and faster.
It's called Flash
according to Cinemaphile that's flash and not real animation.
>What will it take to bring back theatrical 2D animaton?
Make it look like they are more profitable than 3D.
Good luck!
Better movies than those first two flops
I gotta say. I really hate how almost every single trad cartoon now has a rim shadow. Even though it's more detail it looks so cheap. You had shadows in old cartoons but they were usually used as a character detail, like how Disney wanted their protagonist in Treasure Planet to look like a neanderthal for some reason.
A miracle
Why didn't you see my movie, Cinemaphile?
When either computers die out or live restart.
2D animation is dead in Hollywood because the institutional knowledge has been lost. The last generation of 2D animators are passing on without having trained the next generation. Hollywood would have to reinvent the wheel to bring back theatrical 2D.
>2D animation is dead in Hollywood because the institutional knowledge has been lost. The last generation of 2D animators are passing on without having trained the next generation.
Don Bluth is actually running a school teaching what he knows these days.
Richard Williams dumped everything he knew into a book before dying, although it's not as good as working with the man hands on.
There are a ton of art books by famous Disney animators of various generations.
There are probably more examples that someone could scrape together if they really wanted.
I doubt a general audience gives a shit about really really high end animation. The beanmouth style we see and mediocre anime-knockoff is "good enough". I don't even think the animators themselves care. Almost all pro artists I've talked to days are entirely focused on getting a job. I don't even know why they got into art in the first place they could've just learned a trade and made more money with less stress.
The skills for it can be found all over the place. There's just nobody willing to hire those people so most of them end up working overseas for anime studios now.
>I don't even know why they got into art in the first place
You would be shocked by just how many artists stick with art even though it's killing them, just for the praise. I could talk for hours about the overinflated egos of my "fellow artists" especially post-social-media.
This. People used to respect artists a little more in the last century. I completely understand why they aren't respected in this era though. We turned the arts into a big joke in the american cultural sphere.
A 2D movie becoming a runaway success at the box office. show companies it can make money and they will show interest in developing 2D movies
The best candidate for this would be the upcoming ATLA movie
>The best candidate for this would be the upcoming ATLA movie
Don't hold your breath on that one.
The problem with animation is the same as video games have had for the longest time: the audience doesnt give a frick.
What the companies put out is what the average movie goer actually believes to be the peak of the medium, they cant think of any ways to improve it.
They dont see any value being lost with 2D being dead as they can get their low brow talking animal 3D movies with pop culture references they can point out and laugh at.
To them animation is simply something to pass time with and to keep kids occupied, they have no respect for the craft or anything related to it.
What the industry decides to do is almost always accepted by default by the consumers because they dont care about the quality of the product due to them not thinking or understanding that it could be or even needs to be better for any reason you could come up with.
Impossible. Amerimutts are too fricking lazy unskilled and fat to animate 2D. You might say you can outsource it to Korea and other third world shitholes but outsourced trash can never be quality