Industry seniors, a little risk taking and a lot of marketing?
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What would it take to bring Western 2D films back to theater?
Industry seniors, a little risk taking and a lot of marketing?
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It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
Yes
do not put all the eggs in the same basket by spending 200 million on it, make something of a reasonable budget so that it won't flop even if it isn't massively successful
You could dress 2D up in 3Ds clothes like Klaus did.
Knowing Disney's logic, they stopped making 2D films when Treasure Planet became their biggest animated box office bomb. After a string of 2D failures such as Fantasia 2000, The Emperor's New Groove, and Atlantis: The Lost Empire; while the Pixar films and Dinosaur did well at the box office.
Meanwhile, Disney is having yet another string of box office bombs ever since COVID.
Onward, Lightyear, and especially Strange World all bombed horribly at the box office.
Encanto did well but not as well as their pre-COVID films. (similar to how Lilo & Stitch and Brother Bear did decently but not as well as the Renaissance films)
Raya and the Last Dragon's box office was hurt by being simultaneously released on Disney+ Premiere Access; while Soul, Luca and Turning Red were dumped on Disney+ and only had very limited theatrical runs outside the US.
Good 2D animation is actually cheaper than good CGI, so Disney should return to 2D if they want to make good animation while saving money.
>Good 2D animation is actually cheaper than good CGI, so Disney should return to 2D if they want to make good animation while saving money.
Now if only the suits could think that far and they had the talents for it. I can't see any of the Calarts freshmen producing the next successful 2D feature. They'd have to export abroad for actual quality.
>They'd have to export abroad for actual quality.
Which is even cheaper.
Sony saves money on their animated films because they are mostly animated in either Canada (the Spider-Verse films, Hotel Transylvania) or Japan (the Final Fantasy movies and the Resident Evil anime movies).
Illumination's films are also really cheap to make because they're animated in France.
They sabotaged both Treasures Planet, and Atlantis. They have been advertising Frozen a fricking decade AFTER it released, and its actual shit.
Atlantis didn't do better or worse than Emperor's New Groove.
disney’s 2d films were expenriencing a lull in box office starting with pocahontas
Bringing 2D animation back to the big screen is ostensibly possible...
All it would take to get back in full force on the big screen would for there to be one 2D animated movie to break a billion dollars at the box office: if this were to happen Hollywood producers and investors would lose their fear of 2D animation in a heart beat.
The thing is, the last 2D animated western film to even crack hundred million was Princess and the Frog which came out over a decade ago and was still considered a failure.
2D theatrical animation outside of anime is dead. It's never coming back without anything short of a miracle. The surest sign that it's gone is that Avatar Studios will be making the Avatar The Last Airbender movies CGI instead of 2D like the show.
Good news, actually.
Thank god.
CG Avatar would have been terrible.
Hopefully the 2D animation looks good.
The Avatar movies are going to be 2D with some CG elements. Like Treasure Planet.
There are two possibilities with 2D/3D hybrids.
They're either going to be 2D films with 3D backgrounds like Treasure Planet, or 3D but rotoscoped by hand to 2D, like Spider-Verse.
>2D theatrical animation outside of anime is dead.
Anime is a zombie that was never alive to begin with, like LGBT characters and queer themes
>2D theatrical animation outside of anime is dead.
its never even alive outside japan . no cultural footprint etc
Industry seniors does not begin to describe it. Assuming someone was 30-40 years old in 2000, the youngest they could be when the last 2D movies were made, they must be near or over retirement today.
Just make one good one and market on Renaissance nostalgia to the Disney adults and laugh all the way to the bank. You can’t make it woke and/or shit though. One honest, timeless classic and you’re back on top, promise.
2 things
>a huge string of 3d animation failures from multiple studios, it has to be multiple studios.
>a small string of 2d animation major successes
You essentially need the inverse of what happened in the early 2000s when Disney, Dreamworks, Fox, and Warner all saw major box office disasters with their 2d films while seeing Pixar, Dreamworks, and Blue Sky make bank off their 3d films. When producers and filmmakers see these major trends it causes them to overcorrect to unbelievable degree which is what killed 2d.
This is why I get pissed off when Genndy uses up a 2D movie slot on a movie about dog testicles.
I wanna give Genndy the benefit of the doubt for this movie, but this really feels like a massive wasted opportunity. Imagine what we could have got instead of it.
Money. Lots and lots of money. It is still a problem that you can throw money at. Recruit the old animators and pay fat money in salaries, materials and promotion. Quickly before they become too geriatric to draw. Once you have only millenial animators at your disposal you're fricked. Their education was horrible.
The problem with creative industries is that they're more industry than they are creative. So inevitably it'll all be about filling some overpaid executive's coffers as cheaply, quickly and efficiently as possible. So long as cinematic 2D animation remains more costly, time-consuming and specialised than 3D animation, it will always be rejected by higher ups
But 2D animation is actually cheaper than Disney and Pixar's $200 million budgets, and can look better.
The most expensive Japanese film of all time is The Tale of the Princess Kaguya, and the 2D animation is great. Yet it only costs half the budget of your average Illumination film.
I think it's supposed to be easier to train people to do 3D animation and find people who can just churn it out? Maybe it's a speed thing.
>Maybe it's a speed thing.
Absolutely not. The rendering process alone takes upwards of a year to complete so any sort of speed you gain by creating an interchangeable pipeline is lost because computers can only calculate a 3d image so fast.
The budgets aren't via embezzlement. 3d really is just that expensive. It takes expensive software, ran on expensive harware, ran by expensive technicians to make a 3d movie. People like to meme about how much talent goes into a 2d film but the reality is that it's a lot cheaper to get a small team of people to draw a bunch of images over and over than it is to get technicians of multiple specialities creating seperate assets, lighting effect, simulations, animation, and renders.
Honestly the big push for cel shaded 3d is probably to try and supercede the render process as flat shades of color are far less difficult and easier to render than realistic shaders and textures.
Those budgets are massive because of em embezzlement/ whatever other shady israelite money magic. I refuse to believe they're paying those legions of indians anything more than a bowl of rice.
I think someone spilled the beans on twitter how “”””executive producers””””” have an easier time stealing from a 130 million movie budget than say a 10 million budget
Isn't that common knowledge? They made a broadway musical and two movies about it
It's not stealing/embezzlement. It's greed, sure, but not illegal.
Studios give the producer a budget to get things done. As long as the producer is able to deliver something that meets the studio's specifications, they don't care how the work is accomplished or how the budget was used. A producer's worth is in their connections and abilities to negotiate. Instead of being incentivized to squeeze every drop out of the budget to increase the quality of the product, they are incentivized to use the least amount of the budget so they can pocket the leftovers. This becomes a problem in animation because the studios don't have enough sophistication or taste to understand whether what they're given is worth what they paid for it. They don't have an opinion on art.
This is why ever time the Hirches and the Terraces of the world publicly position themselves on the side of the animators, I get a laugh out of it. They're the producers. They're the ones in control of the budget.
Tell us how we know you are a israelite
I'm just laying out the problem for you. If you want to fix it, you have to fix the incentives.
These animators work for the network. The network is their customer, in the same way that comic shops are the real customers of the comic publishers. That's why they do shit readers don't like. They don't have to respond to readers directly.
Animation needs to be independent. When they are, they have every reason to use budgets wisely, trim out the fat and the greed, and make sure what they do serves the audience.
>But 2D animation is actually cheaper than Disney and Pixar's $200 million budgets, and can look better.
I remember reading an article about how much the iPhone would cost if it were made in the US. One of the head Apple guys estimated it would be between $30,000 to $100,000. It's not because of the pay gap. It's because, despite their perceived reputation for making cheap stuff, China actually has advanced manufacturing and precision tooling abilities far ahead of the US. They can make things better, faster, and cheaper. The number of American tooling engineers in the US would fill a room. In China, they would fill a football stadium or two.
Traditional animation is likely in the same boat. Comparing budgets of modern 3d films with 2d films of the past is pointless if we no longer have the industry to make those films. We don't have enough talent, and individually they don't have the productivity/efficiency to match foreign animators.
>They can make things better, faster, and cheaper. The number of American tooling engineers in the US would fill a room.
Complete horseshit.
I'm just quoting Tim Cook. You can argue with him.
>In the U.S. you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I’m not sure we could fill the room. In China you could fill multiple football fields.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/01/17/how-much-would-an-iphone-cost-if-apple-were-forced-to-make-it-in-america/
>that small team of americans can design anything, even things that don't exist yet, using literal magic, make one hundred when they only need one, and it will work perfectly for decades, with little to no maintenance, using garage tools, no one will die, and everyone on the planet will want it.
>those football feilds will barely be able to make poor bootlegs, have a casualty rate of 50% from the industrial machining alone, and the bulk of final prodicts will eat thier user alive, and then explode.
Quality > quantity
Tim Cook is fricking moron
Why would it be horseshit? China has a billion more people than the US and engineers have been seen as "upper class" ever since the communists tamed the yellow river and stopped people from dying regularly from it flooding and shit like that. Seems likely they'd have a frickton more engineers than the US with that kind of culture and massive population.
This guy gets it. A studio's goal is to be sold to a larger studio/network for profit, not to take risks. This is how it works. With all the big studios/networks in trouble right now a lot of smaller studios are holding the bag and will likely close down. Artists jobs in the west will be even more competitive, disposable and desperate than before. This climate will push many artists away and/or make it even more expensive to make anything remotly profitable.
Get a rich guy who loves 2D animation like Phil Knight loves stop-motion.
Probably midbudget stuff through a production house lik A24 or Neon that angled more for prestige and critical attention as opposed to huge commercial success. Probably with a cosign from a noted actor or director. Del Toro and Wes Anderson did it with stop motion to moderate success so I dont see why 2D in that vein wouldn't be comparable.
its over. Let it go, the people from the renaissance you associate with have mostly died/retired/burned too much bu disney
The talent to make them in the first place without Korea doing 99% of the worst. American animators are fricking trash none of these fricking goofs even know their fundies for frick sakes. Being an animator means one is a skilled draftsmen.
Look man animation died because so many guys in the 90' retired. The ones that tried teaching just couldn't do it because..... Rich kids going to art school that can't draw for shit. They fricking cry for having to sit down and draw for 7 hours straight. They don't have the attention to do it to. AND IT AINT LE ADHD OK AHDH ALSO MAKES YOU HYPER FOCUS ON SHIT YOU LIKE I can read in the same fricking spot for 12 hours along with other shit.
Aint gonna happen look at animation schools in Asia what they do the time and the skill need
a lot of work for a dying medium. (cinema)
Did you go see Teen Titans Go To The Movies? What about MLP the Movie?
I mean, you may feel dirty the morning after, but you have to go watch these things if you want them to make more. Heck, go watch anime films. One Piece and Demon Slayer got limited releases. Watch them even if you hate anime. The only way to convince companies to invest in these things is to show them there's a market. Send a message.
>Puppetrig slop
No
>Anime
Yes
>dude sequels
No
>”Just get this acclaimed director”
>”Just get this billionaire to fund”
You dumbass
homies. Those alone wont change the modern audience’s attitudes and would just be throwing money to the fire
Do modern audiences actually hate 2D?
no, but it isnt exactly a draw either
Just get a billionaire willing to burn money.
AI
Alright ppl hear me out.... SONIC heroes
but get the animator and art style that did mania op
Don't need the rest of the other teams
Metal as twist villain optional. (I'll give reason as to why eggman not on angel island cause he was trapped )
Wacky ass vibrant locations pop out
Like casino park and bingo highway. (big ass casino place floating above a city)
Mystic mansion and rail canyon.
Simple plot metal or Eggman just going fight me or in 3 days I'll send a star wars size fleet to take over the world
Voices actors are the sonic x ppl
War seemed to pump out a lot of 2D movies. Start a war I guess.
>Start a war I guess.
We are still in a war
We are still in a war, and propaganda if animated will still look like cocomelon.
Shit like MCU , Top gun and Call of Duty already fulfill that purpose in the modern day
The complete destruction of the illegitimate state of Israel
Disney would be smart to re-release classics in theaters, until they start making money again.
That's bring new engagement to the medium.
>Disney would be smart to re-release classics in theaters
They already did tho?
They've been doing remakes, sure.
About once every few years, they'll get one in the theaters.
But they could release one every quarter at minimal cost.
It's most likely going to be CG but with traditional animation aesthetics. You're already seeing that with Klaus, Spiderverse and Bad Guys. Hopefully at some point we reach a level of technology where a Paperman style full length film is practical.
>What would it take to bring Western 2D films back to theater?
someone with a shit ton of money paying for it
Nothing less than the complete destruction of all the top players in the industry. There needs to be a long drought of good animated movies, so much that people are willing to drag themselves into cinema for 2D movies again.
Ironically, Disney is already working on that drought lmao.
Sony and maaaaaaaybe Dreamworks could be bullied into making 2D movies again, but Disney needs to be destroyed so much that none of their properties will be touched ever again.