What would you say caused more damage to Spider-Man as a whole?
>Clone Saga
>Spider-Verse
>One More Day
What would you say caused more damage to Spider-Man as a whole? >Clone Saga. >Spider-Verse. >One More Day
What would you say caused more damage to Spider-Man as a whole?
>Clone Saga
>Spider-Verse
>One More Day
the spam
OMD
One More Day, certainly. We got over Clone Saga, it had good stories associated with it and a lot of nice stuff kept being made after that, same with Spiderverse.
One More Day was a spiteful "frick you" towards Spiderman and nothing else.
Miles Morales.
Considering that the 90s cartoon managed to make decent adaptations of both the Clone Saga and Spider-Verse, OMD
Hey, Spider-Verse in the comics was actually an adaptation of the story in the’90s cartoon!
The best thing is that they did both in the same saga
The clone saga. The best result of it was Mayday and she more beloved for her idea than her actual characters or stories. She has since been done more interestingly
Shut the frick up, Slott
Clone Saga was way too convoluted but we were able to move past it eventually, it's gotta be OMD
Clone saga had some good thing that came out of it
One More Day can easily be retconned and forgotten, the problem is that the editorial doesn't want to
Spider-Verse forever marked Spider-Man as the multiverse character. You just can't go back to the comfy street stuff after this.
Spiderverse easily. Normies don't even know about OMD or the clone nonsense. But now EVERYONE thinks Spiderman is anyone with a specific power set
>Anybody can be Spider-Man
BUT I WANT HIM TO BE JUST ME- I mean, PETER!
>the character can NOT be who has has always been for 70 years straight!
The brain rot for you people is weird
t.
Spider-Verse, hands down. Spider-Man as a franchise was healing after the Clone Saga and One More Day, but Spider-Verse dealt it a terminal blow. We'll never get comfy Peter stories again, it'll just be Miles Morales chimping around.
I would need a rundown of the negatives of the Clone Saga, but I feel pretty confident nothing can touch One More Day.
Tons of better written articles to explain it, but in general it commits the four main problems people find in Spider-Man today:
>Excess executive meddling drawing out a gimmick well past its expiration date until it became a big, bloated confusing mess
>Peter Parker acting extremely out of character by basically being a rageholic brooding manchild up until the story ended in order to facilitate the rise of his intended replacement Ben Reiley
>Shitty filler villains with crap motives that basically strangled itself twisting itself into all kinds of contortions and loops until it finally ended and everyone was just glad it was over
>Too many fricking Spider-Men running around
It wasn't as all-defining as OMD became in hindsight, but there's a reason the Clone Saga was so infamous for decades
Ah, that does sound pretty bad.
The sad thing is that compared to the rest, it wasn't AS bad, if only cause Ben Reiley's introduction was intended to let Peter Parker retire to have an end to his story instead of being outright overshadowed and displaced by far lamer successors like Miles Morales. It was stupid as hell, but it was still only a harbinger of far worse things to come in retrospect.
These are the 4 nails in spider-man coffin:
clone saga 90s
sins of the past
OMD
spider-verse
Hate it all you want, but Sins Past didn't do any real damage to Spider-Man as a character or a brand.
>b-b-but it made him a cuck
Black cat and the Foreigner already did that to him in the 80s.
>b-b-but muh pure and perfect Gwen
A character who'd been dead for decades already having secret babies doesn't hurt Spider-Man as a character or a brand at all, it's just cape book melodrama.
Spider-Verse. It created this massive sprawling and even bloated universe of spider-adventures and spider people, but here's the kick, Peter can't be part of it. Peter has to stay in New York and do spider man things. This means this whole spider-man universe somehow manages to exist separate from fricking Spider-Man. Eddie Brock, of all people, is having big cosmic adventures, while Peter is still having trouble paying rent and shit. Miles is fighting Carnage, and Peter is nowhere around. It makes Peter's adventures feel isolated and disconnected from his own universe.
Spider-verse and let me tell you why
Clone Saga is bad, and bringing Norman and Aunt May back in one fell swoop retconning 2 of the most important deaths in the history of Spider-Man was ultimately a wound the book never really recovered from leading to
One More Day, which had the character make a deal with the devil rather than accept that death happens, especially considering the character in question should have already been dead as seen above
But Spider-Verse has destroyed the worth of Peter Parker as a character and reduced Spider-Man to a costume. It has obliterated the concept that drew people to the character in the first place, a guy who had problems just like you who happened to a superhero. Now he's got his own Spider-Family and often has adventures across dimensions. If there is something you don't like from the last 5 years of Spider-Man it can almost certainly be traced directly back to that event
You're no more shallow than the people who think Spider-Man is just a costume. Spider-Man has problems but the idea is that with his superpowers, he goes out of his way to turn a bad situation into a good one for others and himself even if the odds are against him. Frick anybody who thinks the takeaway from Spider-Man is him having problems and being consumed by misery drama crybaby shit.
definetly this, peter is jus feeling reduntent, plus not letting his character grow gives less reason for ppl to care about peter. it's ironic Slott wanted to do the 50th anniversary of spider-man WITHOUT peter in his spider-verse event and i bet you it was to put that message "that peter isnt the center character YOU are", and now he's getting his cake as the spiderverse is making peter more reduntant
Was gonna say OMD but I think you've actually convinced me otherwise. I really hate this multiverse shit. Not just with Spider-Man but fiction in general. It's a stupid plot device that cheapens the setting and characters of whatever work uses it.
Aunt May wasn't brought back in Clone Saga, she got brought back in Byrne's run
I'm convinced everybody would love Miles if Marvel simply wrote him saying "I love Spider-Man, I'm Spider-Man biggest fan" as a kid, that's all it would take to make him likeable, if Peter is the superhero fan self insert Miles should be the Spider-Man fan self insert.
A successor character being adversarial to the original is a poison pill every single time it's done, and yet morons keep thinking having a character go "hey look at me I'm cooler and betterer than the guy you already like" will make fans like the new guy.
The clone saga was just one long and bad story that didn't have that many lasting consequences. OMD destroyed my interest in the character. But like this anon said
Spiderverses have now reduced him to just a powerset and costume.
So it's
1. Spider-verse
2. OMD
3. Clone Saga
at this day and age, spider-verse. omd second place
One More Day and Miles Morales. That's not even a debate. With a Spiderverse you could potentially see reflections of Peter and interesting What Ifs which might enhance the storytelling instead of ONLY fanservice, diversity quotas and new toys. Clone Saga had some fun interactions despite being overall more terrible.
OMD and the editorial autistic hatred of Peter Parker being married to Mary Jane. I can take a lot of crap. But Marvel’s autism on Spider marriage is too much.
The spider-verse comic or the movie?
Comic
One More Day
OMD is where i decided Peter was no longer a hero. Certainly no longer one of mine.
Clone saga:
Started the moronic trend of "somehow Norman has returned" alongside some now forgotten dumb crap
Spiderverse:
Started the crossovers between spider people alongside a decente ring of Peter's persona, which is not arbitrary a bad thing if done correctly. It spawned some shitty crossovers and storylines but also some good movies.
Omd:
Utterly destroyed Peter (and mj) as a character, retconning over 50 years of comics and development and forcing itself as new and current Canon most of the writer are forced to follow as such....
OMD is the worst by far.
Immagine if the sequel trilogy 's Canon was kept for 15 years straight, with stories following that moronic Canon, one worst than the other.
Spider verse can be handled well as long Peter is respected, and the clone saga did way less damage in retrospective.
But odm is literally a cancer, a stain that is the foundation of the current Canon in Spiderman.
OMD, Spider-Verse, Clone Saga
In that order
Not to mention that the clone saga isn’t that bad
Reposting from the other thread
>Codified multiverse shit in the minds of normalgays causing a massive influx of shitty multiverse media
>Severely diluted the Spider-man brand worse than the Clone Saga ever did
>Legitimized Slott's worst excesses and kept the bastard working on Spider-shit
>Gave a new generation of self inserting autists an in into the franchise, which is already lousy with schizos and self inserters, with an easy way to introduce their Spidersonas
Spiderverse was arguably the worst thing to happen to the franchise, yes even worse than OMD/Quesada
While l strongly feel the Spiderverse hate is overblown because it's the newest thing l cannot deny the immense cringe factor of "spidersonas." Tolerating self-inserters has been a disaster for Cinemaphile and media at large.
Bendis.
in no particular order:
- marydumbgays
- slott
- clones
One More Day made me cancel all my Spidey pulls so...
I consider Spiderverse an extension of OMD. In my mind they're one and the same. The Mephistoverse if you will.
Hear me out on this.
>with OMD it's when editorial made their contempt for fans very clear
>the mindset Slott gladly embraced
>the original Spiderverse arc is just Slott killing fan favorites for shock value as a result of that contempt
>the idea of Spiderverse (please shut the frick up about 90s cartoon, nobody touched the multiverse shit from it for a decade until Slott and even then it was much different in the cartoon) was profitable enough to milk the shit out of and even make a movie out of, because Slott's "ideas" are that of a toy company executive wanting to sell cheap plastic shit to dumb children and not a writer
>now everything is gay multiverse shit
You can see all those dominos falling too, right?
Clone saga was nonsense, but it went away when the clones went away (mostly).
Slott's take on Spider-verse was just bad, but it didn't really have any lasting effects and even its' 'adaptations' don't actually take any elements from it.
OMD has had lasting repercussions for 15+ years. Every story since 2007 has OMD looming over it like a foul odor. OMD has done more damage. I would tell fans to stop reading before OMD because there's nothing after it that's worth reading, it's only suffering.
This. If you hate multiverse stories, then the Spider-Verse movies and No Way Home did way more damage than the comic story by making multiverse shit associated with Spider-Man to the public.
OMD was a worse story and its consequences can be felt in comics to this day
Spider-Verse is also a bad story but has also altered the character to the point where it affects what happens in his non-comic media, which is a feat OMD cannot boast.
>has also altered the character to the point where it affects what happens in his non-comic
That shit started before OMD though.
multiverse was just a convenient tool for 'spider-sonas', but Miles is the starting point of spider-sonas', not spider-verse
Miles. Morales.
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s l
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s
iolreasles?
He's a symptom
Not a cause
Individually One More Day, but the core problem of editorial/executives wanting to move past Peter Parker as a developed character without moving past Peter Parker as an established IɴteMMectuᴀM PRopeRtʏ™ is the driving force behind all three, and would've ruined things even if OMD didn't exist.
OMD happen the day year my parents got divorced
Clone Saga hurt Spider-Man sales in the mid 90s, but hasn't really done any lasting harm to the narrative of the comics, and has had very little impact on adaptations.
One More Day is a massive open bleeding wound on the comics that they can't recover from, or more accurately refuse to recover from, but it's not really had that much impact outside of comics.
Spiderverse is another massive open wound on the comics, but it's one that's actively harming Spider-Man as a brand and concept outside of comics, and normalizing multiverse team ups as what the character is about, while crap from Spiderverse adaptations is feeding back into the comics and causing more damage.
It's Spiderverse. It's absolutely Spiderverse. OMD is bad, but it's a just within comics kind of bad.
I remember someone posting this article of all these comic creators saying Peter marrying MJ was a mistake. That's when I knew Spider-Man comics would never be good again.
The Clone Saga halved Spider-Man's sales and they never recovered. I've met multiple people who quit comics altogether because of it. Easily the biggest disaster in comics history.
You're thinking of OMD. Clone Saga, for all of its many faults, sold very very well
Any idea how well the current run is selling? I just finished watching Ms. Marvel die and Paul still sticking around and I'm about ready to drop it.
Comparatively to other comics (at least issues shipped to stores)? Very well.
In terms of actual numbers? No idea.
We assume the sales are bolstered by the sheer amount of variants being put out, not to mention that a lot of the more sought after Disney variants require retailers to purchase X amount of regular issues to get them (i.e. buy 100 copies of the normal ASM to be allowed to buy one of the Disney Variant). With collectors who have every issue of ASM and not wanting to break their collection up funding it all
That makes sense. Is the current run worth sticking around for? I haven't kept up with the main comics consistently since the early 2000's with Ezekiel and this shit feels "off".
No, dear god no. Nothing about the current run is good or worth checking out.
Spencer's run is decent with a shit ending, and Beyond (the filler between Spencer's run and the current run with Ben Reilly) has a handful of decent issues but beyond that there is nothing really worth reading post-OMD.
Well there are some decent minis but that's it
To be honest, not really. It lost almost all of its energy after they answered the initial question of "What did Peter Parker Do?", the answer being "Basically jack shit", and it's kind of dragged itself from plot to plot without a visible end goal for years. Hell, there's a massive city wide gang war going on in his book, and not a single person is excited for it at all. I'd stay away, or pirate if you really need to keep up.
Understood.
Thanks anon. I saw an article pop up today the Beetle is coming back and is Tombstone's daughter or some shit? I wanna see how Paul inevitably gets killed, but I think I'm done paying for it like an idiot.
There's been a female Beetle for years, yeah. She's just involved cause all the themed super criminal gangs are openly blowing up NYC and she's looking to get revenge for her dad almost getting whacked.
Shit, there has? I really am out of the loop.
With competent writers, that gang war sounds interersing. But alas.
Read the story of the same name from the late 80s.
I thought it sounded familiar.
As
said, just read the 80s Gang War. It's got Daredevil in a fat suit picking a fight with Spider-Man, it's great.
Shit, I'm in. Thanks anons.
Let's be honest, at this point Clone Saga isn't even a contender for top five worst Spider-Man stories. It's probably not even in the top ten
>What would you say caused more damage to Spider-Man as a whole?
Continuing after the Lee/Ditko split.
Spider-Man is fine he's not real and people will make good stories with him sometimes, the fandom is damage.
The whiny fans ruined him more.
So you agree Spiderverse is the worst. Got it.
So the Marvel employees, gotcha
Huh, a kicked dog really will holler.
>What would you say caused more damage to Spider-Man as a whole?
The fanbase.
>skinner in front of broken window
of those three? OMD is the objectively correct answer
MaryWh0oregays and their delusions
Spider-Verse ruined not just the comics again, but all Spider-Man media