not every film and show has a "moral". these aren't aesop's fables.
the closest thing are themes, and the biggest theme of the two shows are "bad actions have serious consequences"
all the characters who did bad things, even if it was for good reasons, had their lives completely fricking demolished
no you're moronic. themes are central ideas that are implied throughout the work and are usually variations of values like "integrity" or ethical questions, a moral is an explicit and undeniable message the author wants you to come away from the work with, and there is always only one moral to a story.
"following vs breaking the rules" is just a running theme of the show, it's not the singular moral that they want you to come away with, because there are loads of other themes that are just as important, for example, "nature vs nurture" or "communicate with your loved ones" are just as big of a theme.
I was thinking of "objectively immoral act that may be done for "noble" causes" when I wrote that, for example:
jimmy involving himself with the cartel puts him into extremely dangerous company and helps lead to a chain of events culminating in howards death.
nacho poisons a man, leading to him being forced to act as gus' mole at threat of his father's murder, eventually leads to nacho's death
When did Saul ever show he was willing to personally get his hands dirty?
going to the desert to pick up illegal money to free a murderer that he perjured himself to help free.
>going to the desert to pick up illegal money to free a murderer that he perjured himself to help free.
Thats not the same as killing someone with his own hands
"Crime doesn't pay" is also a saying. Of course moralizing will happen, people don't want bad actions to happen and try to punish it when its found out.
homie ofc people will moralize it, I'm just saying you can serve your own point by showing the theme can be stated in a non-moral way. I never said no one should ever moralize it
Bad actions can eat away at you, sending you down darker paths. You have to face the music and accept the consequences of your actions or keep falling deeper into the darkness.
>BETTER *CLAP* CALL *CLAP* SAUL *CLAP CLAP*
Vince didn't know how to end the sorry. Also I recall them saying it was gonna take a dark turn, but then Saul pussied out of strangling that woman.
>but then Saul pussied out of strangling that woman.
Watch these zoomer imbeciles say it's perfectly in his character to randomly strangle an elderly woman for shock value. You dipshits are just mad Saul, the criminal involved in one of the largest drug dealing operations in the country, did not ride off into the sunset like some stupid cartoon charcter.
He's not going to some to some cushy low-risk federal daycare for white-collar criminals, he's going to the prison that house cartel types and murderers. Now by reputation alone, he might be fine from the other inmates but that is a long shot from Easy Street
Something about overcoming the odds and the winner takes it all. But then the last episode happened and it was such utter dogshit that maybe it's being talented and a girl let's you escape all consequences?
Also I guess their was something about what actually is the shape of success. Huel asked Jimmy why he was doing his schemes even though he had a stray income at that stage but the same question could probably be pointed at every character in the show. Chuck didn't need to go after Jimmy, neither did Howard. Kim didn't need to go with Jimmy. Mike didn't really need to make his granddaughter a multimillionaire. Gus didn't need to take revenge. Etc, etc
Wasn't as bad tbh. Walt was someone who had a massive ego and wanted to make everything that he put his hand on firmly his so him not just settling down and living in the wilderness and instead creating some bullshit scheme to support his family and kinda protect the legacy of his blue meth was overall fine.
Main issue with late game BB imo was Jesse's arc just looping back around to I'm a sad b***h and it sorta forced the writing down a shitty alleyway. I wonder if the last season would've been better if jesse was killed off and Walt was the one in the slave cage
The only things that kept him in check was Chuck and Kim, both of which failed him. Chuck, by refusing to have it out with his brother and tell him that he was appalled with the idea of him becoming a lawyer, let alone a partner in Chuck's firm and how Jimmy's history of being a scheming c**t made Chuck believe that Jimmy should never be put into a position of power or authority. Meanwhile, Kim let her own inner sociopath run wild when she met Jimmy and Jimmy underestimating how evil Kim was and how she was basically using Jimmy as her permission to be evil and ruin Howard's life.
The ending also was heavily compromised because Gilligan didn't want to make Kim pay any price/have the "moral high ground" in the relationship so Jimmy went down like a simp for Kim instead of burning her and destroying her as a sort of "scorpion and the frog" type deal where Jimmy watches Kim be dragged away to face life in prison if not the death penalty, while smiling knowing that he basically murdered Kim via betraying her and that he'll get a sweatheart plea deal for serving Kim up to be executed by the state.
>Kim instead of burning her and destroying her as a sort of "scorpion and the frog" type deal where Jimmy watches Kim be dragged away to face life in prison if not the death penalty, while smiling knowing that he basically murdered Kim via betraying her and that he'll get a sweatheart plea deal for serving Kim up to be executed by the state.
You don't get life/death penalty for trolling a lawyer.
>being a scheming c**t made Chuck believe that Jimmy should never be put into a position of power or authority
and he was right. no amount of appeasement would change that
>while smiling knowing that he basically murdered Kim via betraying her and that he'll get a sweatheart plea deal for serving Kim up to be executed by the state.
kinda cringey and ooc 2bh
he was born bad but could've been good. he tried to be a good person and was succeeding
but in Chuck's head, Jimmy was never good, and his actions, being out of spite rather than good will, ultimately caused Jimmy to fall
I never said anything about the law or cops, Jimmy was a piece of shit who hurt people and he got what he deserved in the end and he knew it. Being a criminal and getting people hurt makes you a POS who should be punished.
Jimmy didn't deserve anything that happened to him ngl
That would've been a shitty ending, his whole flaw is he can't help himself and prison was the only way to stop him. It's a lawyer going to jail, there is no dramatic irony otherwise.
Scam everyone, then when you get tired of running away, give up and live like a king in jail among people who treat you like a king.
Kinda based if you ignore that he "supposedly" did it for her.
Yeah hes basically loved at his prison. Hes probably defended half the prison anyway. The real punishment is he cant run scams that a worth a damn in prison
I see it more as the message that if you're going to dip your toe in the water of criminal life, then you have to be willing to go all the way. jimmy was a skilled con man and he was smart enough, but he didn't quite have it in him to kill that old lady, he didn't have it in him to frick over kim to get his sweet plea deal, and he didn't have it in him to live a straight and narrow life either. its his criminal tendencies combined with empathy that killed him. You can see the same thing play out in breaking bad. Walt could have killed hank and jesse and he would have died of cancer peacefully on top of a big pile of money.
>if the character were just morally bankrupt and had no conflicts then itd be fine
then the show would be boring, could easily watch 100x other things of sociopaths just killing others
That only by confessing your sins can you reach salivation. It just uses a secular context. Chuck even points out that there is sacred, as if its akin to scripture.
Saul had a good heart but couldn't avoid his nature of having a criminal brain.
Walter was a b***h boy that pretended to be a a big man when he had nothing left to lose.
Really does baffle me why they wanted to just fricking ruin him so badly. Like more than just an embarrassing prank, they wanted to just absolutely ruin his fricking life.
It's "CRIME DOESN"T PAY", a lesson spouted by McGruff the Crime Dog on Saturday Morning Cartoons, but that won't stop idiots from writing essays about how "Jimmy" turned into "Saul" while huffing their own farts.
But the cops are the law. And the law is good according to Better Call Saul and McGruff the crime dog. So you don't even realize how stupid you are, which proves my point.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I never said anything about the law or cops, Jimmy was a piece of shit who hurt people and he got what he deserved in the end and he knew it. Being a criminal and getting people hurt makes you a POS who should be punished.
11 months ago
Anonymous
And he's punished by the law. You moron child.
11 months ago
Anonymous
He's primarily punished by refusing to take a deal
11 months ago
Anonymous
He's primarily punished by spreading his ass wide open for the criminal justice system and this is portrayed as a good ending. You live in fairy tale land if you accept this.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It is a good thing to accept that you're dangerous to other people and shouldn't be roaming free to scam more people or get people into dangerous situations
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yes bad people go to jail and good people don't. Bad people turn good when they go to jail. McGruff taught you well.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Literally no one believes the American prison system is rehabilatory
11 months ago
Anonymous
The writers of Better Call Saul do you fricking dummy.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's not what it depicts at all moronic child
11 months ago
Anonymous
You're literally out here saying that Saul dropping to his knees and sucking the dick of the American prison system is a good ending. Keep embarrassing yourself if you want.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Thats not what happened moronic child
11 months ago
Anonymous
Strange because that's what's depicted on screen and what you have been defending this whole time.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No thats not whats depicted on screen moronic child
11 months ago
Anonymous
Oh Saul didn't choose go to prison because that's what good citizens do? My bad
11 months ago
Anonymous
No, he clearly wasn't a good citizen as shown during the whole series, thats the whole point. He choose to go to prison because he realized he was a bad person who would never be able to change. The only person left alive who gave a shit about him will never have anything to do with him unless his bad nature was harmless inside a prison
11 months ago
Anonymous
Life in prison with Kim visiting once in a while is probably better than being Gene
11 months ago
Anonymous
Life as Gene was hell, I'm surprised he didn't give up and turn himself in
11 months ago
Anonymous
He's not being buttfricked, he's an inately harmful person and its better for everyone if he's locked up moronic child
And Thank God we have the prison system to keep monsters like Saul off the streets! Can you imagine if everyone didn't turn themselves in to spend life in prison every time they did something bad? It would be a nightmare! Anyway back to the Animaniacs!
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yes unironically its good to punish people who do crime
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yes crime doesn't pay we know little one.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Retared child there is nothing wrong with that being a point
11 months ago
Anonymous
If you're watching Saturday Morning Cartoons then yeah. In the real world not so much
11 months ago
Anonymous
>le real world is le evil and too complex for morality
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yes just go to jail and turn yourselwhen you do something wrong and you'll have a happy ending
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah thats not what happened, it wasn't a happy ending, it was a "less horrible ending", if he hadn't taken his sentence he'd be back as Gene but now knowing there was no chance the last person alive who cared about could ever be interested in seeing him ever again
11 months ago
Anonymous
Again that's pro prison system Saturday Morning Cartoon fantasy land bullshit. In no way is his outcome the "less horrible ending".
11 months ago
Anonymous
No it isn't
11 months ago
Anonymous
You're an emotionless weird if you think living in complete isolation without loved ones is worse than being in prison. I'd rather be dead than live like Gene
11 months ago
Anonymous
You're a moronic child if you think that killing yourself is better than living. This has been a great thread really proving my point up and down.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Of course being dead is better than being miserable, most cultures in the world have known this, except this weird Christian one where life must be perserved at all cost even the persons own wishes
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'd 100% rather kill myself than live without my family
So the only thing that would have been a better ending than him going to jail would have been him killing himself? You guys aren't moronic children pseudointellectualizing bad storytelling after all!
11 months ago
Anonymous
That wasn't what I said at all, stop sperging out at everyone
11 months ago
Anonymous
Which one were you, the guy saying that Christians are dumb for not wanting to kill themselves or the guy who defended Better Call Saul from being a show for moronic children by saying he'd kill himself if he lost his family?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Family Guy
And that wasn't even really about the show, just that "living" isn't always better than being dead. Life without them would be more like being a zombie.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So you agree with the actual moral of Better Call Saul, just give up and let the justice system handle it. moronic nihilistic garbage
11 months ago
Anonymous
No. Why are you trying to push a bunch of stuff on me I havn't said?
11 months ago
Anonymous
You just said you'd have a nice day if your family died, the musings of an emo teenager, the target demographic of Better Call Saul.
11 months ago
Anonymous
My kids are more important than anything else, sorry you can't relate
11 months ago
Anonymous
I can tell by the amount of time you spend on the internet defending garbage television shows. Good job.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Wow sorry I spent a couple of minutes looking at Cinemaphile in my free time, clearly I'm not providing for them
11 months ago
Anonymous
The rope is the only option
11 months ago
Anonymous
Clearly you are focusing on what matters and not being fooled by stupid television shows pretending to be smart.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Pretty sure I can spend my free time however I want, hell I could be staring at the wall if I felt like it
11 months ago
Anonymous
Really lending credence to that suicide without family there sport
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why do you spend time arguing about silly stuff on Cinemaphile? Don't you also have something more important to do? Or is your life even less meaningful than you think mine is?
11 months ago
Anonymous
I’m just working up to giving myself over to the state for the rest of my life because that’s the smart play
11 months ago
Anonymous
We get it dude, you don't like the justice stystem
11 months ago
Anonymous
I’m weird like that I should be more like Saul I guess, he’s a good citizen
11 months ago
Anonymous
Jesus man stop malding
11 months ago
Anonymous
>I just can't be good I'm bad
What are you a toddler? Being good despite the powers that be is the hardest thing to do, and a mark of a true man worthy of respect. Just saying.
11 months ago
Anonymous
How is it nihilistic just because he ended up in jail?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>moronic nihilistic garbage
It was far from nihilistic
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah a nihilistic ending would be Saul getting the death sentence and Kim never ever showing up to see him
11 months ago
Anonymous
Christans are weirdos for thinking other people are bad people if they choose to not live anymore
11 months ago
Anonymous
No obviously not
11 months ago
Anonymous
My mistake I must have made up the part where you said that jail or suicide would be an improvement on a bored conman's life.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, you made than up because that wasnt what I said.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Ok let's both pretend that's true and the rest of the thread doesn't exist.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You clearly have poor media literacy and reading comprehension
11 months ago
Anonymous
If I send myself to prison for the rest of my life it'll get better though right?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Depends on how shit your life is, Idk I don't know you
11 months ago
Anonymous
I work at a Cinnabon and I'm depressed. Things can only improve in prison right?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Stop being so disingenuous, that wasn't what was going on
11 months ago
Anonymous
No, the rope is the only option
11 months ago
Anonymous
The rope is the only option
Not when life in prison is just sitting right there, replete with a gold star for being a good citizen!
11 months ago
Anonymous
I was joking about your moronic malding at the guy
11 months ago
Anonymous
I was joking about Better Call Saul stans thinking that suicide and life in prison are preferable to being sad for the rest of your life.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You sound like a weirdo who's baseline in life is being miserable
11 months ago
Anonymous
Oh no I’m happy I went to prison for life it really helped my outlook.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Could have fooled me since you're so mad about a TV show and people who liked it
11 months ago
Anonymous
Really I didn’t think there was any fooling Better Call Saul viewers everyone knows they’re the smartest
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's such a low effort comeback
11 months ago
Anonymous
As opposed to the arguments you guys have been making huh?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, very much so
11 months ago
Anonymous
Damn I’m gonna frame that one. Show it to your kids I’m sure they’ll be proud
11 months ago
Anonymous
NTA, I don't have kids
11 months ago
Anonymous
I’m weird like that I should be more like Saul I guess, he’s a good citizen
You remind me a lot about that one anon the other day who was really hung up on the supermax
11 months ago
Anonymous
Since you know him so well you should pick
11 months ago
Anonymous
NTA but I def think Cinemaphile posting should be punished with at least 3 years in death row at a supermax
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'd 100% rather kill myself than live without my family
11 months ago
Anonymous
What moral lessons should a show about the "real world" have?
11 months ago
Anonymous
That willingly living your life in solitary confinement because you think you're a bad person for conning people is fricking moronic.
11 months ago
Anonymous
He wasn't in solitary and he did more than just con people
11 months ago
Anonymous
Cool I guess throwing your life away for invisible justice system morality points was the smart play after all.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's not what happend moronic child
11 months ago
Anonymous
You just greentexted that he was bored so he should go to jail for the rest of his life moronic child
11 months ago
Anonymous
>constant misery as a wanted man with no human interactions is... le boredom
11 months ago
Anonymous
So you'd rather go to jail then work at Cinnabon. Go back to your Saturday Morning Cartoons
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah because it working at Cinnabon was the only issue
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's not a moral lesson
11 months ago
Anonymous
How about the justice system isn't the ultimate word on morality? That good enough for you?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Sure, but thats not what the series said
11 months ago
Anonymous
The series shows all the time that the justice systen is kinda fricked
11 months ago
Anonymous
Weird that it ends with Saul kowtowing to it then huh
11 months ago
Anonymous
Not really
11 months ago
Anonymous
You're right he just decided to give himself over to it for the rest of his life.
11 months ago
Anonymous
In no way does that imply that the justice system isn't fricked up and wrong at times
11 months ago
Anonymous
It just implies that it is the answer to all of your problems if life's got you down.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No it doesn't
11 months ago
Anonymous
I wouldnt call Saul's situation "life going down on him"
11 months ago
Anonymous
Oh so English isn't your first language. Whoops
11 months ago
Anonymous
Saul made his own mess
11 months ago
Anonymous
Thank God he has jail to clean it up for him
11 months ago
Anonymous
It didn't clean anything up except keeping him from doing more crime and giving Kim a chance to see him. All the messes he made still exist
11 months ago
Anonymous
So going to jail is performative meaningless bullshit. I'm glad we agree.
11 months ago
Anonymous
If you just ignore the two good things I just wrote
You sure seem unwilling to engage in good faith discussion, you're clearly mad about something else you're taking out here
11 months ago
Anonymous
So then it's a good ending. Or are you arguing in bad faith.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>there is not such thing as a grey ending
11 months ago
Anonymous
You just said they were good things and all the bad things were negated oh good faith boy.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Thats not what I said
11 months ago
Anonymous
I just said its a less bad ending than the alternative not that it was a happy ending
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Can you imagine if everyone didn't turn themselves in to spend life in prison every time they did something bad? It would be a nightmare!
Jesus you are moronic, no one expects this
11 months ago
Anonymous
When is prison rehabilatation depicted even once?
11 months ago
Anonymous
At the end when Saul goes to prison to be rehabilitated and the Saturday Morning Cartoon crowd starts jumping up and down and clapping.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Nothing about that implies rehabilitation whatsoever
11 months ago
Anonymous
So you agree with me that it's a shitty pointless ending written for naive children?
11 months ago
Anonymous
No obviously not, your claims make no sense and seem to be rooted in butthurt over having watched some video essays about miscarriages of justice
11 months ago
Anonymous
So you say that all cops are bastards and the prison system doesn't rehabilitate anyone, and yet you claim that Saul agreeing to get willingly buttfricked by that system is a well written ending. Wake the frick up you fricking child
11 months ago
Anonymous
He's not being buttfricked, he's an inately harmful person and its better for everyone if he's locked up moronic child
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why are you so butthurt about the justice system? Did you get framed or something?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why are you so butthurt that Better Call Saul is a bad show? Are you genuinely stupid, shilling, an AI collecting data, or a pathetic troll?
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not butthurt about anything, I just dont get your sperg out
11 months ago
Anonymous
You sound super sincere, maybe reread the thread slowly one or two more times and you'll understand?
11 months ago
Anonymous
I just don't see why this became about whining about corruption in the justice system
11 months ago
Anonymous
All cats are beautiful?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, but also the other thing
11 months ago
Anonymous
But the cops are the law. And the law is good according to Better Call Saul and McGruff the crime dog. So you don't even realize how stupid you are, which proves my point.
So we shouldn't have laws because some cops are corrupt?
Also "the law" is more than just cops, there are judges, legislators, prosecutors and LAWyers, one would think you'd realize that since you're discussing a show about a lawyer
11 months ago
Anonymous
You just said ACAB. They are the executors of the law, and a cog of the machine you described. You are dumb.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Cops aren't bastards because they enforce the law
11 months ago
Anonymous
Oh they're not? I guess they just wake up on the wrong side of the bed every morning you moron child.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Most cops are buttholes because they're backed up by a union that encurages their workers to abuse their power or cover up for their friends when they do that
11 months ago
Anonymous
Someone should tell the other parts of our justice system about this!
11 months ago
Anonymous
You think its a problem thats easily solved?
11 months ago
Anonymous
As easily solved as clearing your conscience by choosing to spend the rest of your life in prison you idiot.
11 months ago
Anonymous
He didn't clear his conscience moronic child
11 months ago
Anonymous
So it's almost like it was a meaningless pointless act huh
11 months ago
Anonymous
No obviously not moronic child
11 months ago
Anonymous
Explain how. Oh wait
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Constantly stressed and affraid as Gene >Gene life is boring hell >Knows he will just frick up again due to his nature and hurt more people >Kim might regain some respect for him if he accept he's a menace
Pay attention to what you're watching autismo
There is no moral. They made him lose in the end because normies can't handle beating the system.
As a similar kind of swindler of lower intellect I abuse every position of trust I have given to me and I get caught, fired, and I repeat it again. I can't help myself any more than he can help himself. Sure people like us get caught in the end, sometimes, but we're just oriented that way. Life is a game, you aren't supposed to exploit but exploiters gonna exploit.
NOOO! NOT MY HECKIN CHARACTERINO!! SAUL SHOULD CONTINUE BEING A SNIVELING BALDING LONELY LOSER IN HIDING WHO EVERYDAY FEARS BEING CAUGHT! HE CANT ATONE FOR HIS CRIMES AND REDEEM HIMSELF NOOO!!!
People who want this really need to read more or get more life experience.
There is no moral. They made him lose in the end because normies can't handle beating the system.
As a similar kind of swindler of lower intellect I abuse every position of trust I have given to me and I get caught, fired, and I repeat it again. I can't help myself any more than he can help himself. Sure people like us get caught in the end, sometimes, but we're just oriented that way. Life is a game, you aren't supposed to exploit but exploiters gonna exploit.
So it’s performative bullshit for pseuds. Glad you agree
11 months ago
Anonymous
No? Stop putting words into others mouths just because you can't make a convincing argument
11 months ago
Anonymous
Going to jail won’t fix his soul or anyone else’s, so it’s pointless. Those are your words
11 months ago
Anonymous
No that's not what I said
11 months ago
Anonymous
>prison has to fix him
He can't be fixed, he can't help himself, that's the whole point of his character. That's why he chooses himself to be put in prison.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Nihilistic childish bullshit
11 months ago
Anonymous
Ah yes because children are known for being nihilistic
11 months ago
Anonymous
>thinking the story is even remotely nihilistic
the moron is showing, your arguments are invalidated sorry
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Other prisoners cheer for him >The love of his life respects him and comes visiting him even after everything >This is nihilism somehow
I dont think that anon knows what nihilism is
11 months ago
Anonymous
Some anons dont like this, which is fine, but they try to come up with moronic reasons why its somehow bad writing instead of just accepting that they just didnt like it
11 months ago
Anonymous
it's a suitable ending, if he just got killed or died (which honestly would be the alternate comeuppance) it would just be the ending of breaking bad again
11 months ago
Anonymous
I agree, it was about how I expected it would turn out
Yeah I think atoning for driving your brother to suicide, killing his partner, corrupting your wife and making her sacrifice her one passion in life, getting innocent people killed, and helping others get away with committing evil is justified but I don't know maybe I'm crazy. If a nig killed your kids he should get let go because that wouldn't fix anything, right? You're fricking moronic man lol.
Howard yeah but I think it'd be harder to sell the Munchausen syndrome with Chuck if he had kids that would intervene. Would take some of the focus off his wife's influence as well.
>moral
Let's be honest, they didn't put that much thought into the story.
It's just "watch character as he does things."
but the gas station and the wolves and sheep
what?
Did you watch the show?
yes and I have no recollection of a gas station or wolves or sheep being important plot elements
You should probably rewatch it then because either you speedwatched or missed a long ass scene by forgetting to pause while going to the toilet
just tell me so i can watch the scene on youtube
the moral is that white girl mommy pussy is worth it
not every film and show has a "moral". these aren't aesop's fables.
the closest thing are themes, and the biggest theme of the two shows are "bad actions have serious consequences"
all the characters who did bad things, even if it was for good reasons, had their lives completely fricking demolished
>bad actions have serious consequences
That's a moral, you twat.
no you're moronic. themes are central ideas that are implied throughout the work and are usually variations of values like "integrity" or ethical questions, a moral is an explicit and undeniable message the author wants you to come away from the work with, and there is always only one moral to a story.
"following vs breaking the rules" is just a running theme of the show, it's not the singular moral that they want you to come away with, because there are loads of other themes that are just as important, for example, "nature vs nurture" or "communicate with your loved ones" are just as big of a theme.
>the biggest theme of the two shows are "bad actions have serious consequences"
define bad action
I was thinking of "objectively immoral act that may be done for "noble" causes" when I wrote that, for example:
jimmy involving himself with the cartel puts him into extremely dangerous company and helps lead to a chain of events culminating in howards death.
nacho poisons a man, leading to him being forced to act as gus' mole at threat of his father's murder, eventually leads to nacho's death
going to the desert to pick up illegal money to free a murderer that he perjured himself to help free.
>going to the desert to pick up illegal money to free a murderer that he perjured himself to help free.
Thats not the same as killing someone with his own hands
no it isn't. good thing that the post asked for "examples of getting his hands dirty" and not "examples of literal murder"
The conversation was about him strangling a person
Just say "actions have consequences" and you're still right without moralizing it, there's no need to specify "bad actions".
"Crime doesn't pay" is also a saying. Of course moralizing will happen, people don't want bad actions to happen and try to punish it when its found out.
homie ofc people will moralize it, I'm just saying you can serve your own point by showing the theme can be stated in a non-moral way. I never said no one should ever moralize it
>had their lives completely fricking demolished
but saul goodman didn't have his life demolished. the guy chose to go to prison at the end
say that to Howards snapped neck
no its that shortcuts are always better and you should always take it
Yes because you can be a prick and still go to heaven
Bad actions can eat away at you, sending you down darker paths. You have to face the music and accept the consequences of your actions or keep falling deeper into the darkness.
>BETTER *CLAP* CALL *CLAP* SAUL *CLAP CLAP*
Vince didn't know how to end the sorry. Also I recall them saying it was gonna take a dark turn, but then Saul pussied out of strangling that woman.
*CLAP* CALL *CLAP* SAUL *CLAP CLAP*
>but then Saul pussied out of strangling that woman.
Watch these zoomer imbeciles say it's perfectly in his character to randomly strangle an elderly woman for shock value. You dipshits are just mad Saul, the criminal involved in one of the largest drug dealing operations in the country, did not ride off into the sunset like some stupid cartoon charcter.
Oh but he did ride off into the sunset:
He's not going to some to some cushy low-risk federal daycare for white-collar criminals, he's going to the prison that house cartel types and murderers. Now by reputation alone, he might be fine from the other inmates but that is a long shot from Easy Street
I'm sure if he wanted to escape he could. He's a demigod. He chooses to be in prison.
When did Saul ever show he was willing to personally get his hands dirty?
The show was primarily by Peter Gould
Wish you fricking morons at least knew who you were complaining about
>Vince
lol, blame that hack Peter Gould if anything. Its just another case of “talented goy creates something, israelite coopts it and destroys it”
moron
Something about overcoming the odds and the winner takes it all. But then the last episode happened and it was such utter dogshit that maybe it's being talented and a girl let's you escape all consequences?
Also I guess their was something about what actually is the shape of success. Huel asked Jimmy why he was doing his schemes even though he had a stray income at that stage but the same question could probably be pointed at every character in the show. Chuck didn't need to go after Jimmy, neither did Howard. Kim didn't need to go with Jimmy. Mike didn't really need to make his granddaughter a multimillionaire. Gus didn't need to take revenge. Etc, etc
How about this guy
Wasn't as bad tbh. Walt was someone who had a massive ego and wanted to make everything that he put his hand on firmly his so him not just settling down and living in the wilderness and instead creating some bullshit scheme to support his family and kinda protect the legacy of his blue meth was overall fine.
Main issue with late game BB imo was Jesse's arc just looping back around to I'm a sad b***h and it sorta forced the writing down a shitty alleyway. I wonder if the last season would've been better if jesse was killed off and Walt was the one in the slave cage
Thought this as well, Jesse should have been killed off season 3 at the latest
Autistic rage
Jimmy was damned from the start, born bad etc.
The only things that kept him in check was Chuck and Kim, both of which failed him. Chuck, by refusing to have it out with his brother and tell him that he was appalled with the idea of him becoming a lawyer, let alone a partner in Chuck's firm and how Jimmy's history of being a scheming c**t made Chuck believe that Jimmy should never be put into a position of power or authority. Meanwhile, Kim let her own inner sociopath run wild when she met Jimmy and Jimmy underestimating how evil Kim was and how she was basically using Jimmy as her permission to be evil and ruin Howard's life.
The ending also was heavily compromised because Gilligan didn't want to make Kim pay any price/have the "moral high ground" in the relationship so Jimmy went down like a simp for Kim instead of burning her and destroying her as a sort of "scorpion and the frog" type deal where Jimmy watches Kim be dragged away to face life in prison if not the death penalty, while smiling knowing that he basically murdered Kim via betraying her and that he'll get a sweatheart plea deal for serving Kim up to be executed by the state.
>Kim instead of burning her and destroying her as a sort of "scorpion and the frog" type deal where Jimmy watches Kim be dragged away to face life in prison if not the death penalty, while smiling knowing that he basically murdered Kim via betraying her and that he'll get a sweatheart plea deal for serving Kim up to be executed by the state.
You don't get life/death penalty for trolling a lawyer.
>being a scheming c**t made Chuck believe that Jimmy should never be put into a position of power or authority
and he was right. no amount of appeasement would change that
moronic
>while smiling knowing that he basically murdered Kim via betraying her and that he'll get a sweatheart plea deal for serving Kim up to be executed by the state.
kinda cringey and ooc 2bh
incel rambling, the post
he was born bad but could've been good. he tried to be a good person and was succeeding
but in Chuck's head, Jimmy was never good, and his actions, being out of spite rather than good will, ultimately caused Jimmy to fall
Jimmy didn't deserve anything that happened to him ngl
>he tried to be a good person and was succeeding
Meh, he was still scaming people, he tried, but he kept failing like an addict
That would've been a shitty ending, his whole flaw is he can't help himself and prison was the only way to stop him. It's a lawyer going to jail, there is no dramatic irony otherwise.
That is a good point, I didnt think about the irony of it
Scam everyone, then when you get tired of running away, give up and live like a king in jail among people who treat you like a king.
Kinda based if you ignore that he "supposedly" did it for her.
Yeah hes basically loved at his prison. Hes probably defended half the prison anyway. The real punishment is he cant run scams that a worth a damn in prison
moral of the story is that whoever decided on that ending is a beta cuck
I see it more as the message that if you're going to dip your toe in the water of criminal life, then you have to be willing to go all the way. jimmy was a skilled con man and he was smart enough, but he didn't quite have it in him to kill that old lady, he didn't have it in him to frick over kim to get his sweet plea deal, and he didn't have it in him to live a straight and narrow life either. its his criminal tendencies combined with empathy that killed him. You can see the same thing play out in breaking bad. Walt could have killed hank and jesse and he would have died of cancer peacefully on top of a big pile of money.
>if the character were just morally bankrupt and had no conflicts then itd be fine
then the show would be boring, could easily watch 100x other things of sociopaths just killing others
I don't think anon meant that the show should be like that, just that its what would be needed of the characters to escape without punishment
The moral of the story is that Howard was right.
Saul obtaining one of those Inception briefcases and using it on Howard would have made more fricking sense than the moronic cocaine conspiracy.
get a smart b***h
the moral is you can milk any boring spinoff character if the main series is popular enough, and you don't even need good acting
Where's the Lyle spinoff?
Soon
Right after Vince ruins a few other side characters
Lyle plays John Tapper and heads to struggling chicken franchises to berate them into buying his POS system
filtered
BCS is better than BrBa
Its miles ahead of breaking bad. The cinematography alone makes the show at a base 7/10.
brba is capeshit tier writing
That only by confessing your sins can you reach salivation. It just uses a secular context. Chuck even points out that there is sacred, as if its akin to scripture.
>That only by confessing your sins can you reach salivation
I reached salivation because of kim's feet.
BONG
>non-homosexual version of Kevin Smith
I miss him
I thought it was a movie, not a fable by La Fontaine.
it seems a bit like uncut gems to me, he just can't help himself. but yeah crime bad, lawyer bad
morals?
slippin jimmy? more like i want to slip it in kimmy
Saul had a good heart but couldn't avoid his nature of having a criminal brain.
Walter was a b***h boy that pretended to be a a big man when he had nothing left to lose.
No moron
Traditional families always win, and trying to get out of your chaste will only bring you suffering. Know your place. Social mobility doesn't exist.
These are the lessons of this series, including breaking bad. Just think about it and analyze the characters and what happened to them
Was it ever mentioned that Skyler came from a trailer park, because that would be some good writing
She was a waitress at some trashy dinner place. That's how she met Walt, so the odds are that she was trailer trash yes.
Bravo Vince
Le bottle cap... le bottle cap has le meaning???!!!
Self-fulfilling prophecies, with chuck dragging this homie to the ground
just bee urself
spoken like a true speedwatcher
post-chuck was so bad i forgot this show existed until now
I loved the last three seasons, they werent quite as good by they were still great TV
god I love what happened to both him and that squeaky b***h for what they did to my homie howard
Really does baffle me why they wanted to just fricking ruin him so badly. Like more than just an embarrassing prank, they wanted to just absolutely ruin his fricking life.
Jimmy projected all his rage around Chuck onto him
Brava Goold
Simply a masterstroke.
Bravo Vince!
hooking up with a damaged woman will land you in prison
moron
It's "CRIME DOESN"T PAY", a lesson spouted by McGruff the Crime Dog on Saturday Morning Cartoons, but that won't stop idiots from writing essays about how "Jimmy" turned into "Saul" while huffing their own farts.
The lesson gets retold because its a lesson that deserves to be
It's a simplistic slogan for children. And connoisseurs of "prestige television"
Simple things aren't bad
Good thing I said simplistic then moron child.
The lesson isn't simplistic moronic pseud
It absolutely is dumbfrick. Go suck a cops dick.
I'm pretty on the side of ACAB, try harder
But the cops are the law. And the law is good according to Better Call Saul and McGruff the crime dog. So you don't even realize how stupid you are, which proves my point.
I never said anything about the law or cops, Jimmy was a piece of shit who hurt people and he got what he deserved in the end and he knew it. Being a criminal and getting people hurt makes you a POS who should be punished.
And he's punished by the law. You moron child.
He's primarily punished by refusing to take a deal
He's primarily punished by spreading his ass wide open for the criminal justice system and this is portrayed as a good ending. You live in fairy tale land if you accept this.
It is a good thing to accept that you're dangerous to other people and shouldn't be roaming free to scam more people or get people into dangerous situations
Yes bad people go to jail and good people don't. Bad people turn good when they go to jail. McGruff taught you well.
Literally no one believes the American prison system is rehabilatory
The writers of Better Call Saul do you fricking dummy.
That's not what it depicts at all moronic child
You're literally out here saying that Saul dropping to his knees and sucking the dick of the American prison system is a good ending. Keep embarrassing yourself if you want.
Thats not what happened moronic child
Strange because that's what's depicted on screen and what you have been defending this whole time.
No thats not whats depicted on screen moronic child
Oh Saul didn't choose go to prison because that's what good citizens do? My bad
No, he clearly wasn't a good citizen as shown during the whole series, thats the whole point. He choose to go to prison because he realized he was a bad person who would never be able to change. The only person left alive who gave a shit about him will never have anything to do with him unless his bad nature was harmless inside a prison
Life in prison with Kim visiting once in a while is probably better than being Gene
Life as Gene was hell, I'm surprised he didn't give up and turn himself in
And Thank God we have the prison system to keep monsters like Saul off the streets! Can you imagine if everyone didn't turn themselves in to spend life in prison every time they did something bad? It would be a nightmare! Anyway back to the Animaniacs!
Yes unironically its good to punish people who do crime
Yes crime doesn't pay we know little one.
Retared child there is nothing wrong with that being a point
If you're watching Saturday Morning Cartoons then yeah. In the real world not so much
>le real world is le evil and too complex for morality
Yes just go to jail and turn yourselwhen you do something wrong and you'll have a happy ending
Yeah thats not what happened, it wasn't a happy ending, it was a "less horrible ending", if he hadn't taken his sentence he'd be back as Gene but now knowing there was no chance the last person alive who cared about could ever be interested in seeing him ever again
Again that's pro prison system Saturday Morning Cartoon fantasy land bullshit. In no way is his outcome the "less horrible ending".
No it isn't
You're an emotionless weird if you think living in complete isolation without loved ones is worse than being in prison. I'd rather be dead than live like Gene
You're a moronic child if you think that killing yourself is better than living. This has been a great thread really proving my point up and down.
Of course being dead is better than being miserable, most cultures in the world have known this, except this weird Christian one where life must be perserved at all cost even the persons own wishes
So the only thing that would have been a better ending than him going to jail would have been him killing himself? You guys aren't moronic children pseudointellectualizing bad storytelling after all!
That wasn't what I said at all, stop sperging out at everyone
Which one were you, the guy saying that Christians are dumb for not wanting to kill themselves or the guy who defended Better Call Saul from being a show for moronic children by saying he'd kill himself if he lost his family?
Family Guy
And that wasn't even really about the show, just that "living" isn't always better than being dead. Life without them would be more like being a zombie.
So you agree with the actual moral of Better Call Saul, just give up and let the justice system handle it. moronic nihilistic garbage
No. Why are you trying to push a bunch of stuff on me I havn't said?
You just said you'd have a nice day if your family died, the musings of an emo teenager, the target demographic of Better Call Saul.
My kids are more important than anything else, sorry you can't relate
I can tell by the amount of time you spend on the internet defending garbage television shows. Good job.
Wow sorry I spent a couple of minutes looking at Cinemaphile in my free time, clearly I'm not providing for them
The rope is the only option
Clearly you are focusing on what matters and not being fooled by stupid television shows pretending to be smart.
Pretty sure I can spend my free time however I want, hell I could be staring at the wall if I felt like it
Really lending credence to that suicide without family there sport
Why do you spend time arguing about silly stuff on Cinemaphile? Don't you also have something more important to do? Or is your life even less meaningful than you think mine is?
I’m just working up to giving myself over to the state for the rest of my life because that’s the smart play
We get it dude, you don't like the justice stystem
I’m weird like that I should be more like Saul I guess, he’s a good citizen
Jesus man stop malding
>I just can't be good I'm bad
What are you a toddler? Being good despite the powers that be is the hardest thing to do, and a mark of a true man worthy of respect. Just saying.
How is it nihilistic just because he ended up in jail?
>moronic nihilistic garbage
It was far from nihilistic
Yeah a nihilistic ending would be Saul getting the death sentence and Kim never ever showing up to see him
Christans are weirdos for thinking other people are bad people if they choose to not live anymore
No obviously not
My mistake I must have made up the part where you said that jail or suicide would be an improvement on a bored conman's life.
Yes, you made than up because that wasnt what I said.
Ok let's both pretend that's true and the rest of the thread doesn't exist.
You clearly have poor media literacy and reading comprehension
If I send myself to prison for the rest of my life it'll get better though right?
Depends on how shit your life is, Idk I don't know you
I work at a Cinnabon and I'm depressed. Things can only improve in prison right?
Stop being so disingenuous, that wasn't what was going on
No, the rope is the only option
Not when life in prison is just sitting right there, replete with a gold star for being a good citizen!
I was joking about your moronic malding at the guy
I was joking about Better Call Saul stans thinking that suicide and life in prison are preferable to being sad for the rest of your life.
You sound like a weirdo who's baseline in life is being miserable
Oh no I’m happy I went to prison for life it really helped my outlook.
Could have fooled me since you're so mad about a TV show and people who liked it
Really I didn’t think there was any fooling Better Call Saul viewers everyone knows they’re the smartest
That's such a low effort comeback
As opposed to the arguments you guys have been making huh?
Yes, very much so
Damn I’m gonna frame that one. Show it to your kids I’m sure they’ll be proud
NTA, I don't have kids
You remind me a lot about that one anon the other day who was really hung up on the supermax
Since you know him so well you should pick
NTA but I def think Cinemaphile posting should be punished with at least 3 years in death row at a supermax
I'd 100% rather kill myself than live without my family
What moral lessons should a show about the "real world" have?
That willingly living your life in solitary confinement because you think you're a bad person for conning people is fricking moronic.
He wasn't in solitary and he did more than just con people
Cool I guess throwing your life away for invisible justice system morality points was the smart play after all.
That's not what happend moronic child
You just greentexted that he was bored so he should go to jail for the rest of his life moronic child
>constant misery as a wanted man with no human interactions is... le boredom
So you'd rather go to jail then work at Cinnabon. Go back to your Saturday Morning Cartoons
Yeah because it working at Cinnabon was the only issue
That's not a moral lesson
How about the justice system isn't the ultimate word on morality? That good enough for you?
Sure, but thats not what the series said
The series shows all the time that the justice systen is kinda fricked
Weird that it ends with Saul kowtowing to it then huh
Not really
You're right he just decided to give himself over to it for the rest of his life.
In no way does that imply that the justice system isn't fricked up and wrong at times
It just implies that it is the answer to all of your problems if life's got you down.
No it doesn't
I wouldnt call Saul's situation "life going down on him"
Oh so English isn't your first language. Whoops
Saul made his own mess
Thank God he has jail to clean it up for him
It didn't clean anything up except keeping him from doing more crime and giving Kim a chance to see him. All the messes he made still exist
So going to jail is performative meaningless bullshit. I'm glad we agree.
If you just ignore the two good things I just wrote
You sure seem unwilling to engage in good faith discussion, you're clearly mad about something else you're taking out here
So then it's a good ending. Or are you arguing in bad faith.
>there is not such thing as a grey ending
You just said they were good things and all the bad things were negated oh good faith boy.
Thats not what I said
I just said its a less bad ending than the alternative not that it was a happy ending
>Can you imagine if everyone didn't turn themselves in to spend life in prison every time they did something bad? It would be a nightmare!
Jesus you are moronic, no one expects this
When is prison rehabilatation depicted even once?
At the end when Saul goes to prison to be rehabilitated and the Saturday Morning Cartoon crowd starts jumping up and down and clapping.
Nothing about that implies rehabilitation whatsoever
So you agree with me that it's a shitty pointless ending written for naive children?
No obviously not, your claims make no sense and seem to be rooted in butthurt over having watched some video essays about miscarriages of justice
So you say that all cops are bastards and the prison system doesn't rehabilitate anyone, and yet you claim that Saul agreeing to get willingly buttfricked by that system is a well written ending. Wake the frick up you fricking child
He's not being buttfricked, he's an inately harmful person and its better for everyone if he's locked up moronic child
Why are you so butthurt about the justice system? Did you get framed or something?
Why are you so butthurt that Better Call Saul is a bad show? Are you genuinely stupid, shilling, an AI collecting data, or a pathetic troll?
I'm not butthurt about anything, I just dont get your sperg out
You sound super sincere, maybe reread the thread slowly one or two more times and you'll understand?
I just don't see why this became about whining about corruption in the justice system
All cats are beautiful?
Yes, but also the other thing
So we shouldn't have laws because some cops are corrupt?
Also "the law" is more than just cops, there are judges, legislators, prosecutors and LAWyers, one would think you'd realize that since you're discussing a show about a lawyer
You just said ACAB. They are the executors of the law, and a cog of the machine you described. You are dumb.
Cops aren't bastards because they enforce the law
Oh they're not? I guess they just wake up on the wrong side of the bed every morning you moron child.
Most cops are buttholes because they're backed up by a union that encurages their workers to abuse their power or cover up for their friends when they do that
Someone should tell the other parts of our justice system about this!
You think its a problem thats easily solved?
As easily solved as clearing your conscience by choosing to spend the rest of your life in prison you idiot.
He didn't clear his conscience moronic child
So it's almost like it was a meaningless pointless act huh
No obviously not moronic child
Explain how. Oh wait
>Constantly stressed and affraid as Gene
>Gene life is boring hell
>Knows he will just frick up again due to his nature and hurt more people
>Kim might regain some respect for him if he accept he's a menace
Pay attention to what you're watching autismo
The ends do not justify the means.
Why is everyone in this fricking franchise a cuck? Walter is a cuck, Saul is a cuck, Howard is a cuck etc.
Cuck spamers need to die
People who make cuck propaganda like BB and BCS need to die.
Good thing neither show is that
Walt was the only one that got cucked
Men have to deal with women and women are prostitutes
You thankfully your mom is pretty cheap
I’m on episode 5 and I’m not hooked yet.
Does it get better?
I'd say so, the first season has a pretty great twist
Yeah. So start sucking. It ain't gonna suck itself.
If your a shitty person there's no way to change and your best option is spending your entire life in jail
Sauls problem was that he didnt change even when he tried
Sometimes its just too late
Changing at that point wouldnt have fixed anything or made anything better
There is no moral. They made him lose in the end because normies can't handle beating the system.
As a similar kind of swindler of lower intellect I abuse every position of trust I have given to me and I get caught, fired, and I repeat it again. I can't help myself any more than he can help himself. Sure people like us get caught in the end, sometimes, but we're just oriented that way. Life is a game, you aren't supposed to exploit but exploiters gonna exploit.
This is the type of person who dislikes the ending, people unfit for society
this was just embarrassing to read lol
Yeah it sounds like the musings of someone who is def going to be caught once his dumb luck runs out
bro's trying to impress anons bragging about petty crimes and compare himself to tv characters fricking sad really
Yeah I don't know if I should kek or feel sad
That anon:
>Saul is literally me!
>what's the moral of the story?
that nothing happens
The moral of the story is that crime doesn't pay
you cant be this stupid right?
He is that stupid
They can
Reminder
They should have shown it in the movie
Crime makes you irredeemable. Unless you're Jesse.
Kim got away ligh too. Jimmy's problem was that he was incapable of change.
Don't be a dummy. Take the 7 years.
NOOO! NOT MY HECKIN CHARACTERINO!! SAUL SHOULD CONTINUE BEING A SNIVELING BALDING LONELY LOSER IN HIDING WHO EVERYDAY FEARS BEING CAUGHT! HE CANT ATONE FOR HIS CRIMES AND REDEEM HIMSELF NOOO!!!
People who want this really need to read more or get more life experience.
People like
need some wish fulfillment, please understand
I NEEDDDDD TO ATTOONNNEEEEEE GIVE ME LIFFFEEEE IN PRISONNNNN IM SURE THATLL FIXXX EVERYTTHIINNNGGGGG
Only children believe this
You sound like a child
Yes adults know that prison fixes the soul
But no one has said prison was going to fix his soul
So it’s performative bullshit for pseuds. Glad you agree
No? Stop putting words into others mouths just because you can't make a convincing argument
Going to jail won’t fix his soul or anyone else’s, so it’s pointless. Those are your words
No that's not what I said
>prison has to fix him
He can't be fixed, he can't help himself, that's the whole point of his character. That's why he chooses himself to be put in prison.
Nihilistic childish bullshit
Ah yes because children are known for being nihilistic
>thinking the story is even remotely nihilistic
the moron is showing, your arguments are invalidated sorry
>Other prisoners cheer for him
>The love of his life respects him and comes visiting him even after everything
>This is nihilism somehow
I dont think that anon knows what nihilism is
Some anons dont like this, which is fine, but they try to come up with moronic reasons why its somehow bad writing instead of just accepting that they just didnt like it
it's a suitable ending, if he just got killed or died (which honestly would be the alternate comeuppance) it would just be the ending of breaking bad again
I agree, it was about how I expected it would turn out
Its like you didnt read anything anyone wrote
Being willing to atone is a sign of maturity, which is why I guess a lot of anons don't get it
Thinking going to jail for the rest of your life equals atoning for anything is the thought of a moronic child
>moronic child
Oh man you brought it back! I thought you got tired of it 30 replies ago. Classic
You clearly love it
Its kinda cute
Like a catchphrase!
tell us then what should have happened, what's the proper ending?
He has no idea he just wants to be mad and sperg out
How should one atone?
Not by throwing yourself at the mercy of the prison system, that’s for sure
Ok but how then? What should he have done? Let Howards widow torture him?
Why is being in prison the most horrible ending possibly for him? He has Kim to visit and the other inmates like him.
Yeah I think atoning for driving your brother to suicide, killing his partner, corrupting your wife and making her sacrifice her one passion in life, getting innocent people killed, and helping others get away with committing evil is justified but I don't know maybe I'm crazy. If a nig killed your kids he should get let go because that wouldn't fix anything, right? You're fricking moronic man lol.
That anon is projecting his rage towards the justice system (which is flawed) towards the show, its sad
Test
motherfrickers will watch a tragedy and complain that there's not a happy ending hahaha
Wtf did they expect?
>what’s the moral of the story?
This
Poor Howard and Chuck, they could have had normal family lives but for whatever reason they never got kids
Howard yeah but I think it'd be harder to sell the Munchausen syndrome with Chuck if he had kids that would intervene. Would take some of the focus off his wife's influence as well.
Fair point. For the sake of the plot Chuck probably needed to be childless, but there was no good reason for Howard to be Imho.
If they didn't want to deal with child actors they could have just shown them in pictures in their house
It's never too late to change