What does this mean for the future prospects of the hit Amazon™ Prime® Video series The Wheel of Time®?
What will Rand's ending look like?
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Wheel of Time -?
What does this mean for the future prospects of the hit Amazon™ Prime® Video series The Wheel of Time®?
What will Rand's ending look like?
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>five years later and we're finishing s2
Just let this die please. Jesus christ its so bad.
>MC won’t even have a harem
Women do ruin everything.
does rand really need a harem though?
It's the only positive thing to happen to him in the entire series
I dont really understand why he had a harem in the first place other than a robert jordan self insert because his wife let him frick other women.
It never really serves the plot besides making elayne and avi sister wives or w/e
Maiden, Mother and Crone.
This. I forget all the mythology, but Greek, Norse, and other pantheons have this triumvirate in them. I think they're also linked to, or a counter too a moon goddess. So Lanfear. Essentially all furthering the idea that the archetypes in WoT are age old, older than man, and will play out again and again forever.
It makes perfect sense considering harems were the natural way we evolved. Rand is at the top of the sexual marketplace and living in a fudalistic society where marriage for power was common. It would have made less sense for him to be monogamist. All of his marriages have a clear purpose. Elanye to secure the throne and his elite connections. Ave to secure the support of the aiel and min because she's min and she is pure and loves him.
You don't understand why the farm boy who was born of a savage and is destined to become a king of kings might benefit from having a savage, a princess, and a streets smart soothsayer as wives?
in fact, he needs to breed every single woman with channeling ability. the top 1% need at least 5-10 babies with him. If he’s ever unwilling, he should be raped by every fertile aes sedai in the white tower.
It makes no sense this was never implemented. they could have an unbeatable army in no time.
>assuming i'm gonna gut that entire story and ruin everything
Yes.
While generally Yes, Rafe is also an honourary woman apparently.
>how much of a hack
One whole rafe's work a rafewhole if you will.
Lol homosexual yes.
I know there have probably been worse decisions in this show, but I keep getting stuck up on Egwene healing Nynaeve at the end of the first season. Obviously Rafe just took a bunch of character moments from the male characters throughout the first book and gave them to women, but that's understandable (not good clearly, but we all know what his politics are), but this just keeps sticking in my head. I buy the idea that the non-main three (and really all non-Rand characters) needed a few extra character moments in the first few seasons, and I don't think a resurrection is the worst moment you could possibly add (I don't think introducing resurrection as a thing accessible to our protagonists is a good idea, but I suppose you could always claim that it only works on the mostly dead Princess Bride style), but the thing that boggles my mind is that Egwene healed Nynaeve. Egwene, whose character is not incredibly strong in the power but is very politically savvy, healed Nynaeve. Nynaeve, who invents new healing weaves before breakfast and is one of the strongest channelers in the series, whose whole wilder block is based around protecting her people. How much of a fricking hack do you have to be to screw that up?
He did say that she was only mostly dead. Special effects went too hard or something? But goddamn. In a circle? It's fricking moronic.
Well damn that's what I get for not actually watching this shitshow. I actually don't have too much of a problem with circles working different and those kinds of changes. Again, they aren't ideal, but I understand some edges getting filed off in the process of adaptation (though I feel like it would be easier to just not do a lot of these changes). It speaks to the showrunners not actually caring about the books, but I don't think that things like the raceswapping or magic changes are really fatal flaws of the show (I'll still be dinging the bell though). But even if I look past those sorts of changes there's still a massive amount to hate.
In order to understand how it all went wrong, you have to understand how people like Rafe think. They view the world within this spectrum of privilege that combines many different social causes. They call it "intersectionality". And it's how they measure everyone and everything about then. When Rafe says "I'm a feminist", he's not only saying he believes in women's rights to vote and woke and be equal. No, his version of feminism comes attached with aaaaaallll this other bullshit.
So you're like, "I'm ok with race changing, but why is everyone so ugly?"
Because intersectionality accounts for body diversity concerns. Everyone should be counted as "sexy", even wrinkled old grannies.
"Why can't they just accept that men reincarnate as men, and women reincarnate as women?"
Intersectionality accounting for concerns of gender identity.
"Why can't Rand have a harem?"
Intersectionality trying to avoid patriarchal depictions of sexuality.
"Why does Rafe make any decision?"
Intersectionality.
I'm well aware of intersectionality and the mindset of the people serving us this slop. I'll clarify, I don't think the raceswapping and a lot of the other things I think of as "minor changes" are good things. Like I said, partially because it shows that the showrunners don't care about why Robert Jordan wrote the way he wrote, but also just because the race swapping is clumsy and doesn't really make sense. My point was more that if the only thing changed from the books were how circles worked or something like that then it would probably be a decent show. I agree that Rafe is coming at this with a fricked up mentality that makes all the men whiney and ineffectual and makes everyone ugly and brown, and that because of that mentality he was never going to just stop with minor changes.
Yeah the healing thing is just what stuck in my mind as a really weird change that I couldn't wrap my head around. What they did to Rand is worse, but is perfectly in keeping with the obvious ideology and mindset of Rafe.
>My point was more that if the only thing changed from the books were how circles worked or something like that then it would probably be a decent show.
And if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, something about a good time.
There's really no point in thinking about what could have been, because there's zero hope for those in charge to ever make it that way.
Agreed that was the last sentence of my reply to you.
Speaking as a member of the racist community it is very weird for me to be kind of defending blackwashing here. You're right that I shouldn't have called it a minor change though. My point was that if they copied the books beat for beat and the characters just happened to be black it would not be a completely unforgivable sin (saying "happened to be black" also feels really wrong because we all know they're casting with an agenda). Yeah it's really bizarre to make the two rivers resemble a London slum, but if they otherwise faithfully adapted the books I think I could live with it. I'd probably still grumble about it though.
I still hate the blackwashing and setting changes, but my core criticism of the show is that even if you look past all of the typical Hollywood bullshit of raceswapping and changes to the setting, it still is just not telling a good story. The reduced roles Perrin, Mat, and particularly Rand have in the show are much more egregious changes from my point of view. Like people are saying in this thread
what has Rand even done so far in this series? Simp for Egwene?
>what has Rand even done so far in this series?
He was able to break through an iron door and shoot arrows into the bullseye by using the one power.
I'm not racist. And my opinions reflected yours for the most part before the show aired. But after witnessing the show. It just confirmed all the worst fears everyone had with how Rafe was handling production. Holding on to this hypothetical scenario where maybe the writing could make up for the raceswapping is no longer relevant.
I'm not holding on to a hypothetical. This show was fricked the moment Rafe picked it up, and I do not expect it to get better. This is just me marveling at how shit the show is on every level.
I will only count race swapping as a minor issue that ultimately doesn't make or break the show AS LONG AS it follows some kind of a logic and the setting is internally consistent. The moment it strays from that the race swapping actively hurts the adaptation, because it's changing the world from something that was meticulously crafted into something that makes zero sense purely for ideological reasons. If they want to make the Two Rivers non-white, at least make them all the SAME kind of non-white, because the place being extremely isolated genetically is an important plot point. Also, pick something that would believably make Rand a halfie. It wouldn't be that fricking hard, but they are just deathly allergic to any place being racially homogeneous and it shows. The Breaking messed up the land, but it was 3000 years ago and when the story takes place the different lands absolutely have distinct phenotypes. Currently there's no way in hell to guess where someone might be from in the show and that is just deliberately making the world and the setting worse for no reason, just because you prioritize quotas.
It's the same thing in Witcher and the Lawd dem Rangz (dem Rangz dem Rangz).
White people cannot - *cannot* - be permitted to be shown existing on their own, even if its just one village. The western media classes will never bend on this.
Blackwashing is not a "minor change".
It absolutely is lmao
National identity and ethnicity is a very large part of the political and cultural worldbuilding of the books. None of that shit works in the show. Rand doesn't look like an Aiel in the show because nobody looks like anything, and two-rivers becoming a multicultural haven for war-refugees literally can't be communicated in the show because it already looks like that.
All the adventuring around different countries, experiencing different cultures and learning to blend in falls completely flat because every place in the show is just Malmø
>What they did to Rand is worse
what did they do to rand? is it just making him a side character?
it's like they wanted a LOTR with no real main character and a ton of interconnected storylines when what they had was more like harry potter, with a main character and then rings of supporting characters of varying importance around him
EotW was never attempting to trick the reader into thinking Mat or Perrin were the Dragon Reborn. It was clear Rand was the one, because he had majority PoV, and all the other special markings of a main character. The show tried to deceive the viewers by spreading out attention evenly to the whole cast.
I don't mind them doing that as a hook to the show. But now that we know he's the dragon, they should treat him like the MC
>I don't mind them doing that as a hook to the show.
I do, because 1. the entire mystery was absolutely pointless, a single google search of just the characters' names will instantly reveal the answer and 2. by doing so, they forced their own hand to cut every interesting, impactful and long-awaited scene from him, making his story and journey much worse. They should've used the same hook the books had: what does the Dark One want with them and can they even trust Moiraine in the first place?
It's also funny how they chose to invent a "mystery" that was never there and instead demystified the Aes Sedai completely, instead of gradually revealing their complacency, all because Rafe thinks the series is about them.
>the entire mystery was absolutely pointless, a single google search of just the characters' names will instantly reveal the answer
That's a dumb argument because you could say that about literally every cliffhanger or twist in any adaptation.
If you Google Ned Stark, you know that he gets executed despite agreeing to confess. If you google Frey wedding, you know about the red wedding. If you google Baromir, you know that he dies. If you google Helm's Deep (or have ever read/watched a fantasy book/movie), you know the good guys win. And so on.
>by doing so, they forced their own hand to cut every interesting, impactful and long-awaited scene from him, making his story and journey much worse. They should've used the same hook the books had: what does the Dark One want with them and can they even trust Moiraine in the first place?
That's a problem with bad writing, which the show has in spades. They would've butchered staying accurate to the lore as well, so I don't see this as a good argument either.
>That's a dumb argument because you could say that about literally every cliffhanger or twist in any adaptation.
I don't think you understood my point. Yes, everyone can find out about those things just as easily as you said, therefore it would be extremely dumb to adapt those stories while trying to pretend that they are not going to happen and avoiding giving the important people any significance or screentime. Especially when you're just going to do the scenes anyway in the end. It will only cause you to hurt your own story because you can't do any of the groundwork and build up, because you were trying to avoid mentioning something everyone can easily find out about and there's nothing you can do to prevent that.
It's up to the viewer to not spoil themselves. I didn't read ASOIAF and so when the red wedding happened, I was surprised. Or things like SW which came out years before I watched them but some times were still a surprise.
There have been tons of times where that happened.
Now imagine if the showrunners thought that they couldn't trust the existing twist in the story and instead needed to skip every piece of foreshadowing and replaced it without something they made up as a distraction that didn't end up giving any payoff and just served to make the story worse.
>That's a dumb argument because you could say that about literally every cliffhanger or twist in any adaptation.
It's an unfortunate reality that many mysteries, surprises and twists are easy to spoil. You can still make a good adaptation with an easy to spoil mystery. Typically, it's the strong rock solid narrative that the original author crafted, which makes the story good, regardless of whether or not a mystery is revealed. However, when you dismantle a good narrative, in order to try and shroud a long known reveal, you're only setting yourself up to make mistakes, when there's really nothing to be gained by doing that.
I see what they were trying to do. They wanted a ton of online and in person discussions between people to wonder who is the Dragon Reborn. Too bad they were so fricking bad about it and the fact that the books have been out for yuears tuat inovuys was able to not be spoiled about it. Anyone searching Rand instantly gets it spoiled so it was so pointless.
>yuears tuat inovuys
you ok m8?
Bro started speaking the old tongue.
Tai Shiar Otye Caballein
>by spreading out attention evenly to the whole cast.
Except they didn't. Egwene and Nyn got far more focus then any of the boys. And even when Rand is revealed as the Dragon he does nothing of importance and get very little screen time.
>The show tried to deceive the viewers by spreading out attention evenly to the whole cast.
And also taking all attention away from Rand, thus he didn't have any significant scenes or importance before they retroactively crammed all foreshadowing into a flashback before the reveal.
It’s harder to be bi than gay?
Gay men in particular have been getting the shaft.
then what are they complaining about :^)
>He did say that she was only mostly dead
Bullshit. Absolutely fricking guaranteed that it was supposed to be a resurrection, because the moron doesn't know anything about the books, and he only retconned it to "mostly dead" after he saw that oh shit, everyone is shitting on the scene. Same with the scene where Logain sees Nynaeve's glow of saidar, it was so obvious that they had to come up with some cope afterwards when people pointed out that he shouldn't have seen anything.
If I were Rafe, this is the excuse I would use: "Nynaeve wears her emotion on her sleeve. Unlike most Aes Sedai who remain as serene and unreadable as possible. Logain read the emotion on Nynaeve's face, and realize what she was doing.
I think the answer they came up with was "she's inexperienced and overchanneled so she did light weaves on top of the regular weaves"
That sounds even more moronic than the "he just saw the impact and results of her channeling :)" Sarah first tried to cope with before people pointed out that Logain was describing her as glowing like the sun (oops!).
While it was bad, there is absolutely no worse decision than turning Rand from the MC into some borderline irrelevant side character.
I get that it's contract negotiation shit and so Rosamund Pike being the big name of the show kinda makes sense that she would get top billing.
But the MC of the books getting FIFTH billing in his own show is still insane to me.
>behind Egwene
Not even surprised. Fcuk Rafe.
Nobody involved in this show gives a frick about the source material. It's a vehicle for their own politics/biases/fanfiction.
im pretty sure i watched all of season 1 but couldnt tell you a damn thing about it
Same. I read posts like this
and I think "did that really happen? Egwene healed Nynaeve?" I have no clue. And I'm not going to go torrent season 1 to find out either. Because it's not even worth the rewatch.
the only good thing in s1 was that choral cover of mashiara, and it’s not even on any fricking soundtracks. wtf
Look. It's a different telling of the story. It's not possible to do a 1:1 adaptation and certain things need to change. Game of Thrones was changed. LOTR was changed. This is normal. Stop being such fricking purists and accept it.
it's ok anon, you can admit you're into cuckoldry
How are they going to adapt the Dragon Reborn when they nerfed Rand so much? The whole parade of "Here is the Dragon Reborn" is definitely being cut. Rand doesn't even know Elayne yet too so how is any romance going to bud?
How is he nerfed? Iirc he took a bit to become op traveling and decapitating with a flick of his fingers
All of his feasts where given through the wonder girls.
He hasn't been trained by Lan at all and Siuan could effortlessly shield him while he was already holding saidin. All his accomplishments have been given to the girls as well.
Rand hasnt done shit in the show except let ishy free (on accident) and thats it.
>responds with a one word answer
>give me some credit do you think I’ll ruin the story with a one word answer
Look I know people see this as a shill talking point but do be less angry just see this as another turning of a wheel. Legends change with time and maybe this is some feminist telling the story hundreds of turnings later.
Your opinion is shit. Stop posting.
What the frick is this? No, seriously, what does ANY OF THIS LAME SHIT have to do with the Wheel of Time? Who is this """Lan"""?
This is the worst part for me. Lan was like Conan the Barbarian and Aragorn combined in the books. Stoic, powerful, masculine, and hyper competent... and they made him into a house husband beta b***h? All the warders are portrayed as mindless, obedient husbands who worship and serve aes sedai like ken dolls and have zero desires or autonomy. They're not even competent. We've wasted 4 episodes already on Lan just moping around some house.
once again the show the completely ignores how duality plays into the story. The Aes Sedai and Warder relationship is not one of of a servant, but of each individual complementing the others. The Aes Sedai who do need or want such a thing, dont take Warders. Warders arent butlers or robots, but effective allies.
They only have 8 episodes to work with each season and had to make character changes to give them proper motivations and to fit into a TV show. Please understand!
What would you ask Lanfear to show you? For me it'd be
>I want to see you, before Lews
pusy
>Rafe Judkins
I don't watch this shit but ain't this the guy who is on record saying he makes characters gay to pwn online trolls?
>let's just say I'm an emasculated numale bugman like almost every adult nerd nowadays and I'm into being a cuck.
is this shit actually good like Game of Thrones or is it a piece of shit like those Sword of the Seeker books or is it decent like those Raymond E Feist books?
S2 is way better than s1. But also the later books are better than the early books. S1 got is better than wot s1 and s2 so far.
Does that help you?
>S2 is way better than s1
Nope. This is pure cope.
>later books are better than the early books
lol, lmao even.
>S2 is way better than s1
It absolutely fricking isn't, stop parroting this "totally organic" shill narrative. The only thing that they improved at least slightly were the sets, but with everything else it just further doubles down on the moronation S1 started and takes it even further from the proper path.
If you can make it 5 minutes into this show you are either a homosexual or have incredible willpower
Frick you the Legend of the Seeker series was way way better than this WoKe bullshit and that was made over a decade ago.
not that anon but I was pretty pissed of with seeker at the time being a later date Hercules or xena and skipping or completely changing plot points, looking back guess I didn't know how bad it could get
I don't understand how he got to be showrunner of what is supposed to be a huge franchise.
He had 18 episode writing credits total before he was made showrunner
>3 episodes on a show cancelled 4 episodes into its airing
>9 episodes on chuck, mostly in the low-rated final 2 seasons
>5 episodes of agents of shield
>a short film (A short film looking at the gay purge currently taking place in Chechnya through the lens of a brother and sister in the rural US)
Besides the short film, his last credit before WOT was 2015. He doesn't seem to be a nepo baby. Is it just because he was cheap?
Sucked and fricked his way to the top.
This got a third season ordered last year but no one actually watches this shit
In 2021 the first three episodes had 1163 million minutes watched in the first 3 days of release. The week the first 3 episodes of season 2 were released (and were available for 3 days) all 11 eleven episodes of TWOT totaled 515 million minutes, less than half.
Just what I needed, more in-detail talk about pajeeta sex life.
they are Tinkers?
Nah, Alanna's family I assume.
Alaana is a pajeet? i thought she was a Nig- black queen
but it is appropriate that the rapist (female) is Indian
Tinkers are cut.
She knows women have 3 holes right?
every
fricking
episode
How does Loial know Rand is an Aiel? Aielmen in the show canon are a big mixed caravan. They aren't even all red heads nor are they all tall. Even if they were being tall isn't really a good indicator of your race. So what about Rand made Loial think so?
They didn't just cast any black girl, they cast a black girl with ginger features. The idea being that she's a black redhead.
Right but not all of them are redheads. Meaning having Red hair isn't the only indicator of being an Aielman. So what is?
Ah, well you see. gulp
>So what is?
Being trans, all "female" aielmen are mtf. WOT is going to give us our first trans sex scene. It will not be censored either. Dilation will be on full display.
And also there are other redheads too, like Elayne, so the feature isn't even unique to the Aiel.
They aren't all red hair but being red haired is like a very high chance it's an aiel
They do look different than wetlanders and ogyre are wise
>Episode 8
>Everyone dies against Ishamael and Lanfear
>"I have won again, Lews Therin"
>Flicker
>Lews Therin Telamon wanders through a palace filled with dead bodies lying everywhere. The palace is smeared in soot and has scorch-marks on the walls, floors and ceiling as a result of the lighting and fires, which killed many. It had once been pretty, with bright murals, colorful tapestries and paintings and finely carved furnishing inlaid with ivory and gold.
Something about the show timeline is fricked. Moiraine is 42 when the series starts and this hag is supposedly her younger sister in the show, they even showed a portrait where Moiraine already looks like an adult and the (supposed) little sister is still a kid.
Aes Sedai do no age remember?
Than why does moiraine look like she is on her 12th round battling the wall?
First of all, they do, they even cut their lifespan in half like morons. The point, however, was that if Moiraine has her canon age, this poor lady is the most walled ~30-year-old I've ever seen.
Moiraine is 42 in the books when the series starts (998). So the "little sister" should be in her 30s.
It's probably best explained by her being aged up a lot like everyone else.
>It's probably best explained by her being aged up a lot like everyone else.
Which then brings up the problem with the timeline before she met Lan and started looking for the DR. Gitara's foretelling was ~20 years ago, if show Moiraine is supposed to be her little sister moiraine is 70years old at the minimum. Was she an accepted until her fifties?
I thought Moiraine was the older sister. To make the "ooh wow the old lady is the younger woman's younger sister!!111".
But anyway it could be something as simple as the prophecy not happening until she was in her 50s and she had just been fricking around doing nothing until then.
Lanfear tells Rand that "she used to come up here with a man", meaning Lews, but that's impossible because they were together in the AoL, before the Breaking.
>I thought Moiraine was the older sister. To make the "ooh wow the old lady is the younger woman's younger sister!!111".
Yes, that's what they did, but the point is that if that woman, who looks to be at least 60, is the younger sister, it would make Moiraine at least 70, meaning she heard the foretelling when she was already 50.
>that's impossible because they were together in the AoL, before the Breaking.
why is that impossible?
Do you know what happened to the landscape during the Breaking?
no
>let's take this mountain/ocean/valley
>and push it somewhere else
Every piece of land broke and new continents were formed. It was a cataclysm, but there are still broken statues from the AoL so its possible some places are similar
Yeah, just because a lot of things were moving around doesn't mean every single part of the planet had every structure destroyed or was completely rearranged. Even if it would mean the surrounding area might look totally different
Don't be deliberately obtuse. The things we see from AoL is shit like that one weird structure embedded into a mountainside in the Waste and even then Asmodean had no idea where it could've originated from. The statues and old ruins we see are from the 3000 years AFTER the Breaking, when nations rose and fell. It's insane to think that Lanfear would recognize a cliff that remained in the same place since AoL.
Yes that's literally what the breaking was.
maybe she's just lying, drawing him into a tale
The only explanation that makes any sense, really.
the costume design is so fricking shit
>selene, a literal perfect, ethereal beauty, is dressed in fricking rags
>everybody's wearing fricking rags
>rags that are somehow perfectly clean
>selene, a literal perfect, ethereal beauty, is dressed in fricking rags
Noooo you don't get it she was posing as an innkeeper in the Foregate because... SHE JUST WAS OK?
Nobody writing for this show GIVES A FRICK. The sooner you realize this all the dumb shit they keep doing makes a lot more sense. The show is being written by talentless morons who never read the source material. It's a way to push identity politics and destroy the work of a white man.
When Mat said he was from Manetheren in the first book (or was it the second?) how crazy does that make him sound?
It's like telling someone you're from the Holy Roman Empire.
I can't believe they put the fricking prologue in the Origins that they cancelled already.
Which Origins episode was this?
It's one of the newer ones. It glosses over it significantly though. You just see Lews wandering, then screaming at his dead wife.
>newer ones
You got a torrent link? All I can find are still the S1 ones.
?t=851
Enjoy. Or rather try not to puke.
Yeah, that is the first one.
Wait, I just checked and it's literally from the first one.
Why are the origins the only thing true-ish to the books?
Most likely a different team making them and the people actually like the books. It's very clear they want to stay as far from the main show as possible without Rafe/Amazon noticing. Hell, they even managed to make the Ogier look not terrible and were somehow allowed to mention the saidar/saidin split.
What the frick are these moronic ear piercings?
Why do so many of these characters have some kind of tribal tattoo? What do the showrunners think they mean?
Well the show is full of various darkies, so
I doubt there's anything deeper than "must make it clear we're not following muh european beauty standards" to it. Everything about this show is extremely superficial.
They are messages to the elite. They speak to each other in plain site and use this show as a means of passing messages on. Theres no other explaination why this show is still being made
>Rand sticks out in EF
>Everyone is a different raced
>Rand is an aielman in looks
>Aiel are a mixed race group
Where the frick is muh consitency? Make them all black, Asian, Indian, Spanish, anything but be fricking consistent.
The people making the show literally can't imagine a world that doesnt look like their muttified down town city. They think the entire world is just filled with every race of person living on top of each other
Question. Why did the Seanchan do a tidal wave at the end of Season 1? There wasn't anything there but a little girl.
Because it's a metaphor for how the seanchan are going to wash over the land like a tidal wave
Oh shit that's radical man.
Tuon's not going to be a cute brown legal e-girl is she?
Tuon's casting is a tall Swedish woman.
You mean a tall Swedish woman (male).
idk bros this was pretty cool
it wasnt
>let's cram an entire season's worth of character development into minute
>cool
It is cool.
this vs
>"You must choose, Rand." "The world will be broken whether you break it or not. Tarmon Gai'don will come, and that alone will tear the world apart. Will you still try and hide from what you are, and leave the world to face The Last Battle undefended? Choose."
>They were all watching him, all waiting. Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain. He had made his decision.
I know which one I think is more kino.
I wish this was an animated series so we could get inner monologues done without it being shit (never works in live action). I dont watch the show but i always wanted to see rand always reminding himself he needed to be steel. Without the inner monologue he will just come off as a rock with no emotion instead of someone terrified to show any weakness under the weight of responsibilty.
Stop making this general. Just fricking stop please. You're keeping the show alive. Either your a mindless shill from Amazon or you're completely ignorant of the damage you're doing. Either way, stop making this thread. I don't care how you do it. You can stop typing or destroy your keyboard/phone, you can blow your brains out, just stop, whatever it takes.
There's nowhere else to vent about how shit the show is. It will go on at minimal to Season 3 this is a fact. So calm down.
I'm no troony but this shows existence has changed my opinion on people being "triggered" by things. Every time I see this general pop up I experience unending depression and impotent rage, similar to what a troon feels when they look in the mirror. This general is giving me society dysphoria. So frick off
Glad to have you with us in each and every thread friend.
>You're keeping the show alive.
There are 18 posters in this thread. 18 people calling the show shit isn't going to decide its fate, especially when they clearly don't give a shit about viewership numbers since they greenlight new seasons before the previous ones have even aired.
Imagine showing this to Jordan and telling him it's supposed to be Lan.
Wasn't Lan supposed to be an almost 7ft tall goliath with huge muscles? I don't remember the part in the book where it described him as a hungry skeleton dyel.
The scale is absolutely fricked. Just look at that tiny-ass Cairhien.
So has Rafe said any really dumb shit this season? I haven't been paying attention.
He did a Q&A not long ago so we'll see.
can you imagine watching this show after the very first episode?
lmao gays
So he's like her stepdad or something? I didn't get her infatuation with him.
They gave best girl this ugly as hell side shave and turned her into a jaded old hag. God I hate Rafe so much it's unreal.
Why does every low rent fantasy/history show have this goddamn side cut shit?
Because the writers are all hipster gays from the west coast so that's what chicks in their immediate social circles have.
Ming Rickshaw
shes 38 which means she'll be 50 by the end of the show
I've never liked Min. She's a bore. Avi and Elayne were both better.
>elayne
>better than anyone
>better than MIN
you are worse than rafe
>hot bimbo princess
You have to be a gay to say no to that.
i didn't say i wouldn't bang her brain out
what a cute boy
she's also a darkfriend and working with ishy.
>no she's not a darkfriend she just made a deal with the devil for personal gain
wow i love that change. cant wait to see what rafe does next
Why do I picture all the Seanchan as black? Is there anything in the books that'd do this?
Well they do act like Black folk raping and pillaging everywhere they go.
What are you talking about? Who did the seanchan rape?
Tuon is black, so maybe that. They're the group that's actually supposed to be the "every ethnicity under the sun" thing the show turned everything else into as well, because they are essentially an entire continent conquered under one flag.
>if our friends are in trouble why would you think I'd ever stay here?
Unbelievable, the show actually made Egwene less of a self serving c**t for once.
There's a very obvious editing error in episode 4 when Ishamael says "I've got so many names in this age" to Min. His posture shifts in split second and the lighting of the scene changes.
Or wait no, it's apparently intentional.
it's to show that Ishy isn't as good in the dream world as Lanfear, who doesn't do that
I can see why they did it, it's just a weird way to adapt the shifting in TAR and ends up looking like an error instead. I always thought it was supposed to be like existing things and items blending and fading into the new things, instead of this kind of a split second change.
Oh that reminds me Lanfear calls him Ishy, what the frick? Thats short hand we use they never ever have a nick name for him in the books no one ever fricking calls him 'ishy'
In the show they were all bffs
I hate rafe so much its unbelievable
>they were inseparable, just like you and your friends now, Rand.
how has no-one murdered this c**t yet?
Who did he blow to get God of War? The guy is an unmitigated disaster
Hollywood runs on nepotism covering for failures in a never ending death spiral until it crashes, is bailed out, and the spiral begins again.
The things cut are not cut and we will see them in later seasons. Saidin will be explained later in the proper time.
nah
In the ultimate battle we will get a 4 hour long exposition dump describing everything.
Lel
Frick, did that really happen?
>Suroth just casually says that Turak made a mistake
>and then goes "I beg for your forgiveness lmao"
This annoyed me a lot. The blood and Seanchan in general are serious about decorum and knowing your place. If you sBlack person at the high blood, chances are decapitation are the better ending you get. Maybe he was wowed by the horn which is it's own issue. But on the other side, he has the horn now and the only one stopping him from making up a spiffing story about how he killed 50 myrdryll and 3 oathbreaking kings is this bint.
Okay, book canon only. Ishmaael vs Lanfear, in the world of dreams (physically or not on their preference), full on fight. Who wins? My money is still on Ishy, Lanfear may escape but I have a feeling if things went sour Ishy would just up stakes, enter physically and wreck shit.
Lol go home rafinor you're a fricking hack.
>Ishmaael vs Lanfear, in the world of dreams
I think Lanfear wins. She's a lot more powerful there than in IRL. Moghedien is even better than Lanfear, though.
I always presumed that was Lanfear huffing her own farts.
isn't the dream world basically all about confidence and willpower? she's supremely confident in her ability of being stronger than anybody else, so i would think that alone puts her at the top. especially if she really was kicking people like ishy out
If that's true would nihilism be a super power or a liability in the dream?
>basically all about confidence and willpower
Not entirely. It is a Talent, different people have it to different degrees and it isn't actually One Power related. Anybody can learn the basics with help like ter'angreal rings, all the Forsaken have those basics (in the Age of Legends it seems to have been the equivalent of high school or college level education to get TAR instruction) but you can't go beyond the basics without having some level of talent at dreamworld.
Lanfear always claimed TAR for her own, but Moghedien is stated to be THE best of the Forsaken at Dreamworld shit, she could do things Mierin couldn't even conceive. Only Ishamael could rival Moggy there.
>but Moghedien is stated to be THE best of the Forsaken at Dreamworld shit
According to herself.
No, by others. Namely Birgitte, and she is somebody who lives in the dreamworld between incarnations. Brigitte had no problems spying on Forsaken more generally, but she backed the frick up from Moghedien in dreamworld.
cool. Google some more evidence.
Go to bed Mierin. Lews Therin will never frick you when he has a big tit blonde wife.
>had
Huehuehhue
I'm amazed that they more or less got everyone wrong.
>Lawful Good
Moraine, Lan
>Neutral Good
Rand and Perrin, Nynaeve
>Chaotic Good
Matt, most peasants and soldiers.
>Lawful Neutral
Most of the Lords in the series
>True Neutral
Egywene (Aka Selfish), Most Aes Sedai
>Lawful Evil
The Forsaken who tend towards ruling (Ishy, Rhavin, Demandred, Sammael)
>Neutral Evil
The rest of the forsaken
>Chaotic Evil
Asmodeanj (although he was noted as a good governor).
idk Lanfear could be chaotic evil
Has Birgitte ever interacted with a Forsaken other than Moghedien?
She was alive during the Age of Legends, went up against at least a couple personally during the War of Power, and while in dreamworld was regularly spying on them all. If she can spy on Lanfear or Ishamael without being detected, but is incapable of doing so with Moghedien, the progression becomes fairly clear.
Lanfear was okay with her spying though because she was using it to her advantage. Moggy is a coward so would attempt to kill anyone who she thought was spying.
Moiraine just casually killed a fricking horse kek.
and it had no impact because that guy randomly walked by
The "wolves" are so comically small.
They're coyotes. Or they look exactly like the coyotes that live near my house.
They really ruined Suian and Rand's first meeting, didn't they? It was so kino with Rand going in with Lan's warder training and getting Suian all out of step, the both of them being afraid of each other. With one being afraid of being gentled and the other afraid of seeing the literal savior of the world destined to go schizo and both of them masking that fear, but we can't have the strong independent Amyrlin Seat be afraid of a man now do we
We can't have the men do anything. Turak is going to be beaten by Nynaeve or Egwene. Just you watch.
It's more important that we see Egwene being better than Rand.
>rand gets btfo and sits there crying
>"it would've been better if you were a girl"
>cut to egwene being powerful and defiant despite her chains
I hate The Wheel of Time. I despise everything about this series. The gender dynamics are a horrific nightmare. It's basically an alternate universe where men and women despise each other and just barely agree to procreate so the species won't die out. It's not even a question that Robert Jordan had mommy issues and a miserable relationship with his wife.
All that said, I naively thought that, being that the show is early '90s proto-feminism, with a lot of inadvertent sexism towards women, that would prevent it from ever being adapted. I didn't realize how easy it would be for the modern crowd to dust it off and say,
>Wow, this is great! All we have to do is remove the sexism against women, but keep all the sexism against men! This is the greatest find in a century!
I honestly blame you for reading this shit series as a child and not being able to realize how shit it was. If you weren't constantly angry while reading this garbage, your brain is defective and should be prematurely donated to science.
>It's basically an alternate universe where men and women despise each other and just barely agree to procreate so the species won't die out. It's not even a question that Robert Jordan had mommy issues and a miserable relationship with his wife.
He constantly hits you in the head with
>see this shit?
>it's bad, things were better when men and women worked together!
and your takeaway is that he had mommy issues and bad relationships with the women in his life? He's giving you a fricking lesson.
>NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! THE GENDER DYNAMICS ARE A REFLECTION OF WHAT THIS UNIVERSE WOULD REALLY BE LIKE GIVEN IT'S HISTORY AND CURRENT STATE! IT'S ACCURATE TO THE SETTING AND LORE.
Frick you. It's accurate to Robert Jordan having an overbearing mother and a wife he hated.
Frick off secondary
You're genuinely too dumb for these books.
For being so brilliant, it was sure easy to adapt them for the woke crowd.
If it's a complete butcher job, was it really "Easy"?
Bro I'm no a tight schedule, can you give me the cliff notes for that rant?
>wife
>not wives
Dunning Kruger in action.
>It's not even a question that Robert Jordan had mommy issues and a miserable relationship with his wife.
His wife who was his editor and confidant for the entire series?
Ya dumb?
So was George Lucas' wife.
That's demonstrably untrue.
It is a feminist literature unironically. The gender roles are just reversed. You see the way men are treated and get frustrated, wtf why are they treated this way? They all have roles that compliment one another and can work together! Oh... maybe we shouldn't treat women badly.
But Rafe doesn't care for or understand what he is adapting in the slightest. A real shame. I stopped watching and won't watch anymore, sad as it is to say :/
It's egalitarian if anything. Feminists have unironically never wanted actual equality and they were always anti-men.
I appreciate your attempt to simplify things but it's still a bit too much. Could you attempt to condense your thoughts down to 120 characters or less? Thank you anon.
Instead of "women bad" (irl), the book does "men bad", to show that neither man nor woman bad and they work together good
At the time wanting equality for women in society was something feministic. These days feminism has another meaning.
>At the time wanting equality for women in society was something feministic.
Even then it was about equal privileges without equal obligations.
Why do you guys keep allowing yourselves to be baited by the same moron?
Whenever someone posts some moronic, vacuous, awful take, just ignore it, he's trying to bait you again.
Loregays. I see people speculate that had Asmodean not been killed he had a solid chance of turning to the light again. Do you agree with this? Also which other Forsaken also can with time be brought back to the Light?
>Also which other Forsaken also can with time be brought back to the Light?
Demandred
Lol. Lmao. The only way he'd even consider it would've been Lews dying (preferably killed by him) and the people hailing him as their new savior and Champion. He had no allegiance to anything beyond seething at Lews.
Honestly, it's hard to see anyone but Asmo turning
I always felt Moridin had a shot.
is it true that robert jordan cheated on his wife and that's why rand has 3 wives?
No that was confirmed to be fake.
No.
Robert Jordan once had two girlfriends at the same time who got along, and mythology has the mother, maiden, crone motif. He's combining the two.
This sounds like one of those stupid creepy pastas.
i know this is moronic but my brain bad what is the book that had the black guy people want in everything that got turned into movie and was shit
Dark tower
thanks
no idea what this series is but you guys are idiots for liking haremshit
does Lanfear really just want Rand for the same reason she wanted Lews (the glory of having him as her husband and the prospect of ruling the world together) or did she actually learn something in the last 3000 years?
She learned nothing in 3000 years, she wants him entirely as a power statement.
>did she actually learn something in the last 3000 years?
She slept. The age of legends was yesterday for most of the forsaken, except the ones that woke early
Iirc they were sort of semi aware as time was passing. Aginor thinks back to it as having "endless nightmares", though I guess you could make an argument that the ones who were sealed deeper were not as aware as him.
yea exactly because aginor and bethamel were on the edge and still almost awake
Ishy and maybe Lanfer too were spun out into the world every once in a while
>maybe Lanfer too
FRICK OFF YOU REDDIT WIKI READING homosexual, only Ishy was RELEASED every 100 years, SPUN OUT is completely different, FRICK OFF
who released Ishy?
no-one he almost escaped the 100 companions sealing the bore more then all the rest, aginor and bethamel were close seconds but didn't quite make it, he released himself, but only for brief periods every 100 years, jfc why are you asking these questions? I'd like you to say
>I have no clue what i'm talking about and is it ok if I ask some questions because I have no fricking clue what I am trying to discuss
do that, i will explain anything you'd like
>every 100 years
Every thousand years or so, for a few decades at a time, but yeah.
no i'm sure its every 100 years after all he fricked with the seanchan version of the karetheon cycle, the name of which I can't remember right now, he was Arturs "merlin" he was involved the trolloc wars, I swear its every 100, definitely not 1000
Nah, it's roughly thousand years. He wasn't fully sealed with the rest, so he spent some time dicking around outside when the Breaking was starting, this was when he confronted Lews during the prologue. Then he was pulled in and emerged during the Trolloc wars and then after another thousand years he appeared as Hawkwing's advisor like you said.
>Nah, it's roughly thousand years.
nah it fricking isn't because the trolloc wars happened 500 years before the start of the series and the hawkwing wars happened a 100 before the start of the series, get fricked wikihomosexual
>happened a 100
*happened a 1000
Your timeline is completely fricking off, I don't know what else to say. Breaking was 3000 years ago, Trolloc Wars were roughly thousand years after that and Hawkwing was again roughly thousand years after that. You remember wrong. Go look it up if you don't believe me.
its not every thousand years, he instigated the trolloc wars 500yrs before the start of the series, he was merlin 1000 years before the start of the series
>doubling down instead of just admitting you made a mistake
Rafe is that you? You know you could just read the books, right? It won't kill you.
Mistakes aren't real, that's just your opinion of my interpretation of facts.
>and the hawkwing wars happened a 100 before the start of the series
In living memory? You've lost your mind
lol their you are again, you could just read the books you know? ishy was not released every thousand years it was every 100 just accept the loss and move on, its ok it a big series mistakes are fine bullheaded shit is not, your new tactic of calling everyone rafe isn't working are you a bot? because this is some brain dead shit
Just call him what he was: Merlin
>not realizing who the real Merlin is
Anon, don't tell me you missed the Merrilin who advised King al'Thor who pulled the Sword from the Stone?
time repeats again and again, ishy was trying to play the game by being a stand in during arturs time, ishy out of all the forsaken understood the wheel and the recurring themes
>ishy out of all the forsaken understood the wheel and the recurring themes
Ishy understood a lot, but also missed a lot. His entire reason of going to the Shadow was misunderstanding what it means that the battle is eternal. He thought that helping the Shadow win would grant him oblivion, but didn't realize that if there was any possibility for that to happen, it would have happened already, after infinite turnings, because by his own logic the Shadow only needs to win once.
yea I know, that doesn't change the fact he was released every 100 years
Read the books.
this is kinda pathetic m8, just admit your wrong or if you are incapable of that, just SHUT THE FRICK UP
>I have never read the books lmao
good for you, i guess?
Frick off wikigay shill FRICK OFF YOU'RE SO OBVIOUS FRICK OFF
good thing my favorite book serie isn't famous enough to a live action
What series?
I got you covered Bro. This who we going with:
Croaker - Idris Elba
Lady - Tessa Thompson
Goblin - Riz Ahmed
One-Eye - Danny DeVito
Silent - Ross Butler
Raven - Michael B. Jordan
Soulcatcher - Charlize Theron
Crockett - John Boyega
Elmo - Dev Patel
Darling - Zendaya
The Dominator - Javier Bardem
Stormbringer - Lupita Nyong'o
Shapeshifter - Evan Rachel Wood
Water Sleeps - Gemma Chan
hell yes I love it my man
>just imagine the scene where where jailbait Lady orders demon to rape Whisper
it's not like it matters, you can still enjoy whatever that is and laugh at the modern adaptation of it
I watned to watch this and laugh and i couldnt make it 3 minutes. It was just terrible and not in a fun way
rafe
>Rape Chudkins
>polyamory
kek I'll bet the other guys fricking his women are black
how did they do?
There's no way that's real
>logain, lan evil
?
>egwene lawful good
?
>moiraine chaotic
?
>any of the main chast neutral
?
Literally 100% incorrect but the most egregious of these would be that anyone besides the Fade are outside of the Good bar.
Egwene follows the rules and never gets a paddling.
LOL! LMAO even! This is easily one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen.
>Lanfear can you help me escape
>*burns down foregate*
>Rand does the shocked pikachu face
Bot thread. I haven't ment a single person who's even heard of the WoT series let along watched it.
As a fan of the books I’m just gonna wait for all the episodes to be released and speedwatch and skip parts I don’t like. I know I’ll be upset, buts it’s my childhood.
it's not worth it
>skip parts I don’t like
so all of it?
Does lann give the guy his powers back?
what?
the fake dragon guy in the robe who was gentled
yes
He gives them in the book but only after they get married.
God why can't they just follow the plot of the books?
In two episodes lan gets accused of being a darkfriend for some reason then gives up rand althor as the dragon to someone he might suspect is a darkfriend. To learn the ancient art of tying off weaves because rand can't see the weaves on moiraine for some reason? Then siuan Sanche decides to kidnap rand.
Because the point of making the series is to poison any goodwill people might have had for the novels.
That would be problematic, the books were a product of a racist, sexist, white, patriarchal system of oppression of POC and needed to be systematically deconstructed and presented in a kinder more accepting light. The show is an unmitigated success and has finally given us the true version of the story that Jordan would have wanted to create if he had been alive now.
>trans kids
>polyamory
>nonbinary
>sphincter-sexual
Jesus Fricking Christ what is all this disgusting israeli shit?
>WHEEL OF TIME?
>mfw the homosexual warders show up
If they wanted the Two Rivers to be brown, they should've all made them brown you know. Hell I've always imagined them looking Mediterranean
this will be the best post in Cinemaphile for the rest of the week
incidentally this is RJ's approved Heron Marked Sword, this is what its suppose to look like they didn't even have to make it they could have just bought it
Why do they make such a big deal about the Heron mark in the books? Couldn't someone like etch in their own Heron mark LOL?
that would be incredibly stupid of the person to do that, the blade masters would find out and deal with them, think of it like walking around with a hells angels vest or idk a navy seal tattoo, you might get a away with it for a few days but not for long
Doesn't Rand get away with it for like 2 books?
yes I knew that would be your next one ok, first of
Ta'veren b***h I ain't gotta explain shit, but lets go into it, he first gets called out in camyln, as gareth says in the throne room yes he's way to young but it "belongs" to him, as a sword master himself he gets the say on this, after eotw he is with Lan and the Aes Sedai and if they are cool with it no-ones gonna say shit, then the hunt beginnings, Rand ends up in the alt reality for a good portion then Falme where he defeats a sword master in single combat, by the rules that makes him eligible, then of course he goes on his schizo wanderings in TDR and then end of which he proclaims himself the Dragon and thats that
How are any Seanchan blademasters? Haven't they basically been like away from the rest of the world for like a thousand years? Who is certifying any of them?
because the blade masters have been around since hawkwings time, turok sees the heron mark and immediately calls rand out as a fake, he also has a heron marked blade
There are not very many instances of Rand having to justify the sword to someone before it gets destroyed. In Caemlyn the sword is disguised with the red cloth for the most part and as the other anon said, Bryne saved his ass when it was revealed in the palace. Apart from that, he was mostly on the run and never stayed in one place for a long time, hell, they knew that the Fade that was following them had been telling people about "thieves who carry a heron mark sword", so he had a reason to keep the sword as hidden as possible. Then finally he was reunited with Moiraine and the others so there were no real opportunities for some rando to challenge him anyway. After book 1 people were mostly treating him as a young lord in disguise and he was given the command (against his will, but still), so they were being careful with him by default and nobody who was with him was going to challenge him to a duel when they had way more important things to do. Lan was also the only actual blademaster who was even around him for the majority of the story and he knew the truth. Then when he finally met another blademaster who had no reason to be careful about offending this "secret lord who has been given command of our troops" and who had an actual motivation to test his skill he gets immediately challenged to a duel to the death.
autism
>how dare you actually read these books and know about them?
Calm down Rafe.
>the paid shill is calling others rafe now
They're trying to fit in
You're not fooling anyone.
meant for
not him but what? thats just the story, are you moronic? you asked a question we answered please frick off forever
Please understand, the shills get fricking livid when people discuss the books and show how little Rafe and the rest know about them.
yes I know take this shit
he's getting desperate
>he said shillingly
Go to bed rafe, you've been at it all night.
FRICK OFF YOU ARE SO OBVIOUS
The worlds most obvious samegay. The thread has already hit the bump limit shill, you're not getting paid anymore. Oh you don't know what that means do you? Frick off.
And he straight embarrassed that blademaster that challenged him
he had learned a fair bit from Lan but not nearly enough to best a sword master that was Lews, who was with be'lal one of the first sword masters
Rand picks up swordsmanship extremely quickly, but around book 7 he is in the top 5 swordsman alive. Among those 5 it would be very difficult to truly pick out the best.
yea because his memories and lews were leaking into each other, in times of extreme stress its the lews side that would take over, but its still rand because of course it is they are the same person, its how rand knew to weave a fire sword among many many other instances of him pulling shit out his ass, that was the rest of him
>Among those 5 it would be very difficult to truly pick out the best.
Lan
Not really, Turak was absolutely toying with him for the most part and very disappointed because he thought that the level of blademasters at this side of the ocean had fallen so low. It was only at the very end that Rand managed to get his void together and caught Turak by surprise when he suddenly started being way more skilled and managed to finish him before Turak had time to properly respond.
I wasnt talking about Turak...I was talking about the later one maybe book 7 or 8. They are sword fighting and then get interrupted by Mashadar
Well yeah, but we're talking about the time when he was carrying his heron marked sword around and whether that got him into trouble, so book 1-2 stuff.
Personally this one is my favorite design, since it has the "braided quillons" the sword is supposed to have.
actually yea thats my favorite, my post was the only one I could find, but I knew their was another one
A mediocre book becomes a catastrophically bad series. Story at 11.
LOL
what the everloving frick were they thinking
Everything about the damane/sul'dam is fricking moronic.
>gets BTFO and starts insisting that it's actually everyone else who is wrong
Anon, let it go. I don't understand this brand of shitposting where you make a complete fool of yourself instead of just admitting your memory failed you.
because he doesn't post in good faith
>posts some nonsense
>we try and explain politely why he is wrong
>goes schizo and starts calling everyone rafe
he's been doing it for weeks now
I quite enjoyed the Egwene breaking scenes.
She should've been taken permanently by the Seanchan, Lord Dragon willing.
That's reserved for Elida and Landrin later.
>one guy claims it's every 1000 years
>other guy claims it's every 100
>neither are backing their claims up with facts or logic, quotations nor evidence
It's obvious they're both wrong.
>neither are backing their claims up with facts or logic, quotations nor evidence
I'm backing it up by pointing out the books once again he was involved in the trolloc wars 500 years ago, he was involved in the hawkwing war 1000 years ago, get it, its not every 1000 years
The troll is just waiting for someone to link to the wiki so that he can start sperging out about "wikigays" and pretend he won. It's every thousand years, trolloc wars were 1000 years after breaking and Hawkwing was 2000 years after breaking and the current story is 3000 years after breaking. Anyone who actually doubts that can just check it themselves.
no they aren't you idiot, trolloc wars 500 years befoer, hawking 1000 years before, simple as you were wrong, just accept it, you are the wiki homosexual again its really fricking obvious and your attempts to obfuscate the matter aren't working, since you are talking to people who actually read the books
I have sperged again Lews Therin.
so just stop, you are doing it in the wrong place you will always be called out for the dipshit you are, ishy was released every 100 years, and one last time trolloc wars 500 years ago, hawkwing 1000 years before, why do you do this?
Here you go.
1000ab is 500 years before the start of the series you idiot, le
Alright, here's your last (you). You have successfully convinced me that you're a moron, good job.
fricking idiot
So the records from that time are spotty at best. Therefore it could have actually only been 500 years ago and it's possible the aes sedai are lying to cover up their failure. There's no evidence to contradict this. It was 500 years ago confirmed.
>he keeps sperging after getting BTFO
jfc guys the fall of manethern happened 500 years ago during the trolloc wars, can I make it any more plain, stop getting gaslit
>500 years ago
It was actually 50 years ago you dumbass, how else would anyone remember it?
>Manetheren dissolved into the Two Rivers in 50 years
Why do you think Cenn Buie was always so grumpy?
All aiel are darkfriends
Calm down treekiller.