I actually think it's starting to hit, people are openly criticising the latest Thor movie, I've heard people saying it's just boring "lol-so-random" style humour.
Maybe I'm just coping, but it's interesting to see critics openly panning it when they're always reticent to criticise any Marvel flick, I haven't seen it in a while.
Same goes for all the nuwars criticism too like Kenobi, I guess Disney hasn't got the same stranglehold on critics it had in the past.
Reviews used to be positive because the content promised something interesting, something more, and the only way to get invited to future events was to be very positive. Not even the reviewers really care to be invited to a pre-screening of Ant Man 3 and the Wasp 2.
I Thor to crack a billion, and it might meet the milestones in this chart, but Top Gun will probably still have a higher gross. It made more than Doctor Strange, which had a much higher opening weekend than Thor.
>I've heard people saying it's just boring "lol-so-random" style humour
Tiki was old by the time Jojo Rabbit came out.
Normies will never get bored of Marvel shit. They love it so much they memed Morbius into another zanny quipfest.
It really isn't, it's not only the worst JoJo part (and it isn't close) but the main villain was so bad people were SURE he wasn't the final boss all the way until the end.
Its simple. Disney has employed tactics to ensure great reviews for the last 10 years. They would invite critics to "meet the stars parties" for every film. If you wrote a bad review, you would not get an invite.
Then covid happened and these parties didnt happen anymore.
Personally I think they probably should've taken a break after endgame. Naturally we're living in a capitalist society so usually the path with the most wealth is the one taken, but it stood as such a satisfying conclusion that most of what comes after will inevitably pale in comparison. Let it simmer for a bit, then when people are hungry start producing again, but corporate hungry execs will not have it.
These films are becoming less and less about passion and more about just being released for money's sake. You could make the argument that's the case for... any fricking move, obviously, but with how ridiculously saturated phase 4 it's becoming more apparent than ever. That won't stop people from seeing them, I think what will is when people wake up to how formulaic they are. Not to say the formula doesn't work, but we need to see some innovation.
What also doesn't help, is from what I've heard from talking with moviegoers is most people are seeing phase 4 films as stepping stones to a greater conclusion-- alla phases 1-3 building up to endgame. With that comparison in mind, I think people aren't viewing the films/shows as singular entities: they're only seeing them for the sake of the pay off that comes later on. And when that mindset is established, I think it's only natural that in the public eye each film just seems like cannon fodder HAHAHA, like "just get me on to the next one so I can get my fat dopamine rush from seeing all the heroes clash against a big threat"
not that there's anything wrong with that, but it really diminishes the value of these cinematic universes... like really? You should enjoy the ride. The sum of the parts make up the whole, not the opposite.
>Personally I think they probably should've taken a break after endgame
But they did though? They went 1 year and half without releasing shit after Endgame and Spider-Man Far From Home.
Wandavision released in Jan 2021.
I think my main point was that it becomes less about creating something artful/thought provoking when you can just hammer out film after film that follow pretty much the same plot structure and make millions every time
then again I suppose it's debatable what the meaning of "artful" is, but there isn't a lot of substance when something is just put out for the sake of money then an actual desire to create something striking
I disagree. I think Phase 4 was nothing but a shift in "grand strategy" for Disney. They adapted to covid where noone went to the cinema. Phase 4 is essentially just a way to force MCU fans to subscribe to Disney+. The same fans gobble up whatever trash with a SW or MCU label is thrown at them. Just look at She-Hulk. It looks sooooooo bad. From the CGI, to the acting, plot etc. It feels like a show thats on Nickelodeon.
>What also doesn't help, is from what I've heard from talking with moviegoers is most people are seeing phase 4 films as stepping stones to a greater conclusion-- alla phases 1-3 building up to endgame. With that comparison in mind, I think people aren't viewing the films/shows as singular entities: they're only seeing them for the sake of the pay off that comes later on. And when that mindset is established, I think it's only natural that in the public eye each film just seems like cannon fodder HAHAHA, like "just get me on to the next one so I can get my fat dopamine rush from seeing all the heroes clash against a big threat"
Interconnectivity was the formula that made MCU a success in the first place. People gave characters like Antman and GotG a chance even though they knew nothing about them. Because the formula was
>watch all the movies in the phase and piece together the story >watch the Avengers team up to conclude the phase >repeat until you reach the conclusion of the saga
If you skipped Antman, you wouldn't have the full story and when he eventually shows up at the Avengers end of phase movie, you'll feel like you missed out. That was the magic formula. Marvel changed it for phase 4. Not giving us those Avengers end of phase conclusion movies to tie everything together, it makes the standalone movies and tv shows feel pointless, like you said. This means that the phase 4 equivalent of Antman and GotG, Shang Chi and the Eternals and the like, they won't be must watch movies like Antman and GotG were, because it doesn't look like we're getting any sort of grand Avengers style payoff anytime soon.
>watch all the movies in the phase and piece together the story >watch the Avengers team up to conclude the phase >repeat until you reach the conclusion of the saga
Repeating something until you run out of ideas is terrible movie making homosexual. And you want more of the same.
>Let it simmer for a bit, then when people are hungry start producing again
They did its been 5 years since 2017s last major film.
Nature has nothing to do with capitalism you fascist frick. Frick you.
Uh, now? The viewing figures for the shows have progressively decreased, Eternals bombed, and all the movies aside from NWH have had middling fan reactions?
Those shows aren't canon with MCU, the only shit they retroactively made canon so far are the Netflix shows.
I heard they recently managed to get Mike Colter back for Luke Cage, and also probably Krysten Ritter for Jessica Jones.
They won't get the homosexual back for Iron Fist though, his show was the worst one.
>canon
I'm not saying you're wrong. But by your own admission they retroactively can make shows canon. They're bringing Colson back in "The Marvels". So Shield is canon.
>They're bringing Colson back in "The Marvels". So Shield is canon.
The Colson dude is canon because he was already in every phase 1 movie, and also Captain Marvel, not because he's in the Shield show.
Agents of SHIELD was originally meant to be canon and was meant to be more interwoven with the MCU, but it didn't pan out. So they retroactively retconned it to being non-canon. I don't think it's fair to exclude it just because they decide later on the show just wouldn't work in the MCU.
another decade or two. the 60s had to happen for westerns to die so it's going to need another really big socio-cultural shift(extreme puritanism -> sexual revolution -> anti-war) to turn people away from comic book movies.
>Phase 1 is the shortest >Phase 1 is also the best phase
>Phase 4 is the longest >Phase 4 is the most worthless garbage in the entire MCU and has maybe one sort of semi decent film (No away Home)
You can see the ambition decline rapidly after Phase 1 ended and when Disney took over.
>Phase 1 is the shortest >Phase 1 is also the best phase
Phase 1 was also shit. Its just that since capeshit was kinda newish to the average normie, it was a novelty. Go back and rewatch Thor 1 etc. They are godawful films that really dont stand alone at all. Its also surprising how different in tone phase 1 was. It has death of major characters, its very serious and it feels like a real threat to earth. Phase 2 and onward just feels like "villain of the week" and its all quips and laughs.
iron man 1 is the best MCU movie... up to the final act which was shit. but that was true for every single phase 1 MCU film. captain america had the same problem. great first act, middling second act, horrible final act.
the norton hulk movie was among the better MCU flicks, though again it struggled with the villain. they were too pussy to make general ross the real villain so they forced in abomination instead.
I think I recall Feige saying that phase 4 won't have a big crossover thing.
Maybe they're trying to build the characters like they did in phase 1, because Feige clearly saw how DC fricked up by rushing things.
The only problem is that it's not clear what the current build up is. Is it Kang the Conqueror shit? Galactus shit? And then in Shang Chi there is the alien dragons foreshadowing.
The big crossover movies and shows will happen in phase 5 I think, but even then it's hard to tell what they're aiming for.
Does anyone honestly care about the shows?
I don't even care about half of Phase 4 so far (haven't seen Shang Chi, Eternals, Black Widow).
I think they really messed up not introducing the big bad from the start. People want a new Thanos, hurry up and hit us with a Dr Doom or Galactus. At the moment the phase is directionless aside from the multiverse.
The shows are a cool idea because it fits the episodic nature of comics
The only gripes I have with MCU shows so far is that the pacing is all over the place, unfortunately.
But the shows themselves are never episodic, you can't watch them out of order. Surely the TV shows should be for telling weekly stories, with the films being a major plot? Instead we have TV shows that are just very thin smeared single plotlines, it sucks.
It's fricking hilarious how people think that the solution to the problem is some sort of overarching big villain when that was the very reason why people were getting sick of the MCU at the time. Thanos only paid because of IW/Endgame, but all the buildup leading to it was always seen manipulative corporate-driven shit. Funny how revisionism is kicking with people saying we need another "Thanos" or "Infinity saga" to look forward to somehow make these new movies better.
It's fricking hilarious how people think that the solution to the problem is some sort of overarching big villain when that was the very reason why people were getting sick of the MCU at the time. Thanos only paid because of IW/Endgame, but all the buildup leading to it was always seen manipulative corporate-driven shit. Funny how revisionism is kicking with people saying we need another "Thanos" or "Infinity saga" to look forward to somehow make these new movies better.
>Thanos only paid because of IW/Endgame, but all the buildup leading to it was always seen manipulative corporate-driven shit.
This. I remember in the run-up to Infinity War people were memeing about how stupid Thanos looked in GOTG and mocking the idea that he could be a good big bad. It turned out he was done incredibly well in Infinity War, but that doesn't mean the prior teases weren't dumb as hell.
I haven't seen the black widow, eternals, or shang whatever. I also haven't watched arrow dude tv show, or black captain america tv show. Don't care. Probably will never watch.
Dunno. At this point the audience for that shit literally doesn't know any better.
Even if they get tired of it, they will still watch because "it's normal" to watch them and they don't want to be "left behind".
The shows are canon and pretty much required viewing. It's not like Agents of SHIELD which can be ignored. Multiverse of Madness wouldn't make a lot of sense if you don't watch WandaVision. Even if you think the shows are shit, you're going to miss out on a chunk of the story specially things like Loki and WandaVision.
To understand the plot? If WandaVision didn't happen you would be b***hing at how stupid the writing is because Wanda is suddenly a bad guy for no reason.
Likely never, well, at least not until something replaces it. To many people, marvel is the movies. They don’t go to the theater for anything else. Plus it’s such a big name at this point and so many people are familiar with it and invested in it that it’ll always be a common tv show choice for people to watch when they have nothing else to watch, it’ll always be a go to movie for people to go see when they’re going out with family, friends, or their partner. I don’t see it staying as popular as it is now, and I don’t think new characters or heroes will ever be as popular as the older and recognizable ones, but it’s definitely not going anywhere until to something else comes along and takes it’s place.
Same length as the first 3 phases and still can barely stand up to even the mid level movies like Iron Man 2 or Antman
>Antman
>mid
Opinion discarded.
I actually think it's starting to hit, people are openly criticising the latest Thor movie, I've heard people saying it's just boring "lol-so-random" style humour.
>j-just two more weeks
Maybe I'm just coping, but it's interesting to see critics openly panning it when they're always reticent to criticise any Marvel flick, I haven't seen it in a while.
Same goes for all the nuwars criticism too like Kenobi, I guess Disney hasn't got the same stranglehold on critics it had in the past.
Reviews used to be positive because the content promised something interesting, something more, and the only way to get invited to future events was to be very positive. Not even the reviewers really care to be invited to a pre-screening of Ant Man 3 and the Wasp 2.
Kek I remember this meme format back when captain marvel and endgame came out
of all the marvelshit to star in why did Christian Bale have to pick this one
His kids asked him to
I Thor to crack a billion, and it might meet the milestones in this chart, but Top Gun will probably still have a higher gross. It made more than Doctor Strange, which had a much higher opening weekend than Thor.
>I've heard people saying it's just boring "lol-so-random" style humour
Tiki was old by the time Jojo Rabbit came out.
Normies will never get bored of Marvel shit. They love it so much they memed Morbius into another zanny quipfest.
Found the Morbius fan
Phase 2 > Phase 1 > Phase 3 > Morbius > Phase 4
Longer but hollow, nobody fricking knows what phase 4 is aiming for
>50 hours of runtime and no goal, direction or even a main villain in sight
Phase 4 is the Jojolion of franchises
They jobbed Tony cuz he also wanted to wear red and gold. Bad idea brother!
the goal is making absurd amount of money
I watched most MCU movies in theaters when they came out. I've pirated every since thing that came out in phase 4.
NWO is pro-wakanda though?
Jojolion is good you c**t
Funny joke.
It really isn't, it's not only the worst JoJo part (and it isn't close) but the main villain was so bad people were SURE he wasn't the final boss all the way until the end.
quantity over quality argument lmao are they fricking serious?
I have never seen a Marvel movie besides Iron Man 1, Hulk w/ Ed Norton, and No Way Home.
Its simple. Disney has employed tactics to ensure great reviews for the last 10 years. They would invite critics to "meet the stars parties" for every film. If you wrote a bad review, you would not get an invite.
Then covid happened and these parties didnt happen anymore.
Personally I think they probably should've taken a break after endgame. Naturally we're living in a capitalist society so usually the path with the most wealth is the one taken, but it stood as such a satisfying conclusion that most of what comes after will inevitably pale in comparison. Let it simmer for a bit, then when people are hungry start producing again, but corporate hungry execs will not have it.
These films are becoming less and less about passion and more about just being released for money's sake. You could make the argument that's the case for... any fricking move, obviously, but with how ridiculously saturated phase 4 it's becoming more apparent than ever. That won't stop people from seeing them, I think what will is when people wake up to how formulaic they are. Not to say the formula doesn't work, but we need to see some innovation.
What also doesn't help, is from what I've heard from talking with moviegoers is most people are seeing phase 4 films as stepping stones to a greater conclusion-- alla phases 1-3 building up to endgame. With that comparison in mind, I think people aren't viewing the films/shows as singular entities: they're only seeing them for the sake of the pay off that comes later on. And when that mindset is established, I think it's only natural that in the public eye each film just seems like cannon fodder HAHAHA, like "just get me on to the next one so I can get my fat dopamine rush from seeing all the heroes clash against a big threat"
not that there's anything wrong with that, but it really diminishes the value of these cinematic universes... like really? You should enjoy the ride. The sum of the parts make up the whole, not the opposite.
>Personally I think they probably should've taken a break after endgame
But they did though? They went 1 year and half without releasing shit after Endgame and Spider-Man Far From Home.
Wandavision released in Jan 2021.
>Naturally we're living in a capitalist society
This. If we didn't have the right to own property Disney would stop making garbage.
I think my main point was that it becomes less about creating something artful/thought provoking when you can just hammer out film after film that follow pretty much the same plot structure and make millions every time
then again I suppose it's debatable what the meaning of "artful" is, but there isn't a lot of substance when something is just put out for the sake of money then an actual desire to create something striking
I disagree. I think Phase 4 was nothing but a shift in "grand strategy" for Disney. They adapted to covid where noone went to the cinema. Phase 4 is essentially just a way to force MCU fans to subscribe to Disney+. The same fans gobble up whatever trash with a SW or MCU label is thrown at them. Just look at She-Hulk. It looks sooooooo bad. From the CGI, to the acting, plot etc. It feels like a show thats on Nickelodeon.
>What also doesn't help, is from what I've heard from talking with moviegoers is most people are seeing phase 4 films as stepping stones to a greater conclusion-- alla phases 1-3 building up to endgame. With that comparison in mind, I think people aren't viewing the films/shows as singular entities: they're only seeing them for the sake of the pay off that comes later on. And when that mindset is established, I think it's only natural that in the public eye each film just seems like cannon fodder HAHAHA, like "just get me on to the next one so I can get my fat dopamine rush from seeing all the heroes clash against a big threat"
Interconnectivity was the formula that made MCU a success in the first place. People gave characters like Antman and GotG a chance even though they knew nothing about them. Because the formula was
>watch all the movies in the phase and piece together the story
>watch the Avengers team up to conclude the phase
>repeat until you reach the conclusion of the saga
If you skipped Antman, you wouldn't have the full story and when he eventually shows up at the Avengers end of phase movie, you'll feel like you missed out. That was the magic formula. Marvel changed it for phase 4. Not giving us those Avengers end of phase conclusion movies to tie everything together, it makes the standalone movies and tv shows feel pointless, like you said. This means that the phase 4 equivalent of Antman and GotG, Shang Chi and the Eternals and the like, they won't be must watch movies like Antman and GotG were, because it doesn't look like we're getting any sort of grand Avengers style payoff anytime soon.
>watch all the movies in the phase and piece together the story
>watch the Avengers team up to conclude the phase
>repeat until you reach the conclusion of the saga
Repeating something until you run out of ideas is terrible movie making homosexual. And you want more of the same.
Terrible ideas don't make you billions of dollars.
Yes they do. Look at hotdogs. Cheese in a can.
Day of our lives and the Simpsons.
>not liking hotdogs
>or cheese in a can
Opinion discarded.
Frick off, autistic off frog poster man-child.
>Let it simmer for a bit, then when people are hungry start producing again
They did its been 5 years since 2017s last major film.
Nature has nothing to do with capitalism you fascist frick. Frick you.
Uh, now? The viewing figures for the shows have progressively decreased, Eternals bombed, and all the movies aside from NWH have had middling fan reactions?
>nd all the movies aside from NWH
And NWH wasn't even MCU, it was Sony Spider-man universe.
What? No Way Home is literally part of MCU.
>When is Marvel fatigue going to hit people?
It already is.
There's no clear goal or big bad in the new movies.
They conveniently left out all 100+ hrs of Agents of Shield and Agent Carter
Frankly, I don't think any shows should be calculated
Those shows aren't canon with MCU, the only shit they retroactively made canon so far are the Netflix shows.
I heard they recently managed to get Mike Colter back for Luke Cage, and also probably Krysten Ritter for Jessica Jones.
They won't get the homosexual back for Iron Fist though, his show was the worst one.
>canon
I'm not saying you're wrong. But by your own admission they retroactively can make shows canon. They're bringing Colson back in "The Marvels". So Shield is canon.
Mark it down, Dude.
>They're bringing Colson back in "The Marvels". So Shield is canon.
The Colson dude is canon because he was already in every phase 1 movie, and also Captain Marvel, not because he's in the Shield show.
Just face it Dude. I pinned your ass to the wall with knowledge.
Not robo coulson
Agents of SHIELD was originally meant to be canon and was meant to be more interwoven with the MCU, but it didn't pan out. So they retroactively retconned it to being non-canon. I don't think it's fair to exclude it just because they decide later on the show just wouldn't work in the MCU.
I got Marvel fatigue after watching the first Avengers, and I still haven't recovered
You must be cool
another decade or two. the 60s had to happen for westerns to die so it's going to need another really big socio-cultural shift(extreme puritanism -> sexual revolution -> anti-war) to turn people away from comic book movies.
>Phase 1 is the shortest
>Phase 1 is also the best phase
>Phase 4 is the longest
>Phase 4 is the most worthless garbage in the entire MCU and has maybe one sort of semi decent film (No away Home)
You can see the ambition decline rapidly after Phase 1 ended and when Disney took over.
>Phase 1 is the shortest
>Phase 1 is also the best phase
Phase 1 was also shit. Its just that since capeshit was kinda newish to the average normie, it was a novelty. Go back and rewatch Thor 1 etc. They are godawful films that really dont stand alone at all. Its also surprising how different in tone phase 1 was. It has death of major characters, its very serious and it feels like a real threat to earth. Phase 2 and onward just feels like "villain of the week" and its all quips and laughs.
iron man 1 is the best MCU movie... up to the final act which was shit. but that was true for every single phase 1 MCU film. captain america had the same problem. great first act, middling second act, horrible final act.
the norton hulk movie was among the better MCU flicks, though again it struggled with the villain. they were too pussy to make general ross the real villain so they forced in abomination instead.
thor 1 and IM2 were both shit though
I think I recall Feige saying that phase 4 won't have a big crossover thing.
Maybe they're trying to build the characters like they did in phase 1, because Feige clearly saw how DC fricked up by rushing things.
The only problem is that it's not clear what the current build up is. Is it Kang the Conqueror shit? Galactus shit? And then in Shang Chi there is the alien dragons foreshadowing.
The big crossover movies and shows will happen in phase 5 I think, but even then it's hard to tell what they're aiming for.
Does anyone honestly care about the shows?
I don't even care about half of Phase 4 so far (haven't seen Shang Chi, Eternals, Black Widow).
I think they really messed up not introducing the big bad from the start. People want a new Thanos, hurry up and hit us with a Dr Doom or Galactus. At the moment the phase is directionless aside from the multiverse.
The shows are a cool idea because it fits the episodic nature of comics
The only gripes I have with MCU shows so far is that the pacing is all over the place, unfortunately.
But the shows themselves are never episodic, you can't watch them out of order. Surely the TV shows should be for telling weekly stories, with the films being a major plot? Instead we have TV shows that are just very thin smeared single plotlines, it sucks.
>Big Bad
You gay really are 2.
This guy has it right.
It's okay though because literally 0 of the tv shows had any impact whatsoever so you can skip all of it.
It's fricking hilarious how people think that the solution to the problem is some sort of overarching big villain when that was the very reason why people were getting sick of the MCU at the time. Thanos only paid because of IW/Endgame, but all the buildup leading to it was always seen manipulative corporate-driven shit. Funny how revisionism is kicking with people saying we need another "Thanos" or "Infinity saga" to look forward to somehow make these new movies better.
*Thanos only paid off
>Thanos only paid because of IW/Endgame, but all the buildup leading to it was always seen manipulative corporate-driven shit.
This. I remember in the run-up to Infinity War people were memeing about how stupid Thanos looked in GOTG and mocking the idea that he could be a good big bad. It turned out he was done incredibly well in Infinity War, but that doesn't mean the prior teases weren't dumb as hell.
it already has, just disney has been openly buying their own tickets since black panther
I haven't seen the black widow, eternals, or shang whatever. I also haven't watched arrow dude tv show, or black captain america tv show. Don't care. Probably will never watch.
Then don't post on Cinemaphile
Dunno. At this point the audience for that shit literally doesn't know any better.
Even if they get tired of it, they will still watch because "it's normal" to watch them and they don't want to be "left behind".
What is the definition of the phases? How will we know when phase 4 is over
Why would they count the shows? The movie people don't and are not even watching them. It's Agents of Shield all over again.
The shows are canon and pretty much required viewing. It's not like Agents of SHIELD which can be ignored. Multiverse of Madness wouldn't make a lot of sense if you don't watch WandaVision. Even if you think the shows are shit, you're going to miss out on a chunk of the story specially things like Loki and WandaVision.
>Required viewing
For what exactly?
Good goy points
To understand the plot? If WandaVision didn't happen you would be b***hing at how stupid the writing is because Wanda is suddenly a bad guy for no reason.
Half of their movies are starting to flop.
Likely never, well, at least not until something replaces it. To many people, marvel is the movies. They don’t go to the theater for anything else. Plus it’s such a big name at this point and so many people are familiar with it and invested in it that it’ll always be a common tv show choice for people to watch when they have nothing else to watch, it’ll always be a go to movie for people to go see when they’re going out with family, friends, or their partner. I don’t see it staying as popular as it is now, and I don’t think new characters or heroes will ever be as popular as the older and recognizable ones, but it’s definitely not going anywhere until to something else comes along and takes it’s place.
When is this thing getting it's own spinoff movies?
what the frick was the distinction between the phases anyway