> I never thought I'd be able to do any of this stuff. But I can. Anyone can wear the mask. You can wear the mask. If you didn't know that before, I hope you do now. Cuz I'm Spider-Man. And I'm not the only one. Not by a long shot.
>We've all got an inner beast. We've all got a messy, loud, weird part of ourselves hidden away. And a lot of us never let it out. But I did. How about you?
I think we can all safely agree that it's the first one, by a mile.
"Anyone can be a hero" is definitely more internally sound than "stop suppressing the shadow."
>the shadow
what?
The Galaxy brain realizes both are applicable and true to most individuals.
THE SHADOW: THE TRUE SELF!
(It’s symbolic~!)
Never tame your demons. Always keep them on a leash.
Frick tradition, frick family, be a consumer slave and allow objectively evil pop media to define you instead.
Degradation of self for popularity and miney and hypersexuLity is a good thing.
Men are spat on for emotional openness unless it's useful violence, homosexualry, or simping.
There hasn't been a good white Spiderman in media sense Garfield. And he's a kyke.
In comics, said white heros marriage and child were loutterallt sold to Satan by a white man do he can be a fricking "free" man and frick random white women. Most notably sn Aryan blonde that absolutely no one gave or gives a frick about.
Litterally everyone has hated Spiderman since
Your white erasure narrative is little more then empty rhetoric to handwaive your rank open bigotry.
Even more hilarious, he works as a teen Spiderman better the Peter Parker ever did and yet people like you are constantly pushing this ridiculous not muh Spiderman narrative when he occupies a completely different niche for the character.
Spiderman hasn't been cool to teens snd young adults since creepy losers with midlife crisis started running him into the ground.
>Men are spat on for emotional openness unless it's useful violence, homosexualry, or simping.
>wants emotional openness for men
>is homophobic
Yes, and...
anyone who isn't a troglodyte sees my point
You're entitled to your point, but it's just a vacuous diversion.
homie where is your hyphen? also
>there hasn't been a good spider-man since the last one
Yes I'm aware of sony using bendis ideas to prop up their spider-man movies is shit and has done nothing but hurt the character, why are you arguing for the BIGGEST bendis addition to be seen as anything than what bendis made him?
they are the same message: MEMEMEME but working as part of a communist system
The one that doesn't preach twerking and crotch blood and reverse-rape to kids
>reverse-rape
What in the world?
Those girls straight-up sexually harass the boy band idols
>Those girls straight-up sexually harass the boy band idols
no, they're sexually harassing the boys on the basketball court.
I'll just repost my reply from the last time we had this thread:
Everything about the Spider-Verse message was deeply offensive on multiple layers
>even *I*, an upper class kid from New York with two parents that love me, that got bit by a magic spider, and got coached by real Spider-Man, and got a suit from the real Spider-Man's aunt, can be Spider-Man as long as I wear the the right brand sneakers! if I can do it anyone can!!!
I'm honestly baffled people lapped this shit up, I thought people liked Spider-Man
>I'll just repost my reply from the last time we had this thread:
true nuff, but at least we have people bringing up women raping men in this thread.
People like being cucks more
Anon the messages in the two movies were
>it’s not about the man it’s about the brand
And
>it’s ok to sell pictures of yourself for money
Both are insidious messages from multimedia conglomerates
>upper class kid from New York
???
well maybe dude assumes everyone in NYC is upper class.
Anyways, his mother is a nurse and his father is a police officer, so maybe they make like $130,000 gross as a family? That's above average for most of NYC, but not extremely high.
But maybe he assumed he was upper class because of the high school he got into, which isn't a good assumption either.
iirc he got in through a raffle, it's mentioned in the comics and in the opening scene of spiderverse there's a quick shot of a lottery balls with Miles' number getting drawn. How the contestants were picked i'm not sure of but my best guess would be kids with the top grades since it's a pretty prestigious place and Miles is shown to be a bright kid
?t=67
Yeah, Miles gets into his charter school via lottery, which was unironically probably done for affirmative action reasons, which would play into his imposter syndrome and have him struggling under the expectations placed on him in that regard, which mirrors the expectations placed on him as a superhero.
The movie could not have hammered this home any harder but far too many people on Cinemaphile don't want to analyze themes when a black character is involved.
>movie is about imposter syndrome
>it says that it's good to become someone else rather than make your own name
the movie is fundamentally about the death of white heros in order to prop up black ones, that what miles is anon he's a petty cheap replacement for someone better. He's soulless and empty, but the movie sure looked pretty
>The movie could not have hammered this home any harder but far too many people on Cinemaphile don't want to analyze themes when a black character is involved.
Of course not. We are too busy calling him slurs.
Forgot my image
Also an analytical mind would've looked at this and realized how it played into the themes of social pressure and expectations. Whereas Cinemaphile just went "lol Black folk defacing public property"
Social expectations are an upper middle class issue.
you are too stupid to live
You're too stupid to put forward a coherent argument.
Why talk about imposter syndrome being a core part of his character when it was dropped within 12 issues. Hell he's been in the wrong universe for YEARS now and at no point brings up his old life or even consider it, hell he's quite literally confronted his own "real" counterpart in the current universe and just shrugged it off. and the new what if pretty much proves he LIKES this shit, god I hate it when gays try to post out of date comics to prove a point about this character. He HAS no purpose beyond being black spider-man, and any questioning that fact was literally ended right here
Because the movie was still about the origin, not the wheel spinning and lack of character growth and progression that ALL capeshit is notorious for.
the movie is about him accepting that he IS someone else anon, you just don't question the fact that it HAS to come at the cost of a life
Probably because I'm not a whiny gay constantly obsessed with and hyper focused on the idea of being replaced to the exclusion of all else.
Thanks for proving my point btw.
you're a whiny homosexual who likes to do surface level assessments of children's films while completely ignoring the subliminal messaging inside of them. That's about it, that's fine the world needs people who have no ability to critically think. what I hate is you're supporting of bendis and everything he does, while ignoring how shittily he does it
>surface level assessments
says the guy crying about plot points rather than themes.
the movie fundamentally is about how no matter who you are, or what you do you're immediately and completely replicable. It's the perfect movie to represent late capitalism for children, don't make your own way, just find a brand to safely nestle under. But bro did you see the colors in the movie? Wow all of that flash totally makes up for the lack of substance
dad is prob at least a sergeant which is is like 85k before OT and nurses start out at like 65k in most nyc hospitals so 150k absolute minimum
Yeah people just ate it up because Spider-Man is black here. You could call him Brand-Man and it wouldn't make an ounce of a difference since the only thing that makes Spider-Man Spider-Man now is the superhero work and nothing else.
miles is the superhero equivalent of rich morons saying "i'm 25, paid off my school debts and bought my first house by following these three simple steps. and my parents paid for everything"
miles hasn't earned shit, every goddamn thing about him was handed to him
I remember one of the criticisms of Miles from back when he first came out had to do with his status and upgringing.
Black people already related to Peter Parker cause, despite his skin color, he dealt with problems black people face every day.
When they made Miles they gave him a more relatable skin color but took away basically everything that made Peter relatable in the process.
Upper class? Miles is on a scholarship. To the point that the tumblr crowd were imagining scenarios where Miles steals the supplies for his art. You know shit.
>Tumblr headcanon
>being proof of anything
Is this how Milestards cope
miles mom is a surgeon in a massive NYC hospital and his father was a secret agent, he's pretty solidly upperclass. I think Tumbler got scholarship confused with the lottery that upper class schools like the one miles goes to uses to fill out their class
His dad was only a secret agent in the comics and he was still middle class. Miles needed that raffle to be in the school.
but most kids in general need raffles for schools like that in NYC, the city has over 8 million people in it and they must be flooded with applications. Besides I'd imagine that a cop and a surgeon for a top school pushes miles family income in the upper middle class
>miles mom is a surgeon
She's a nurse.
I thought Miles's mom was a nurse though? And his dad's a cop in the movie at least. Not exactly low income but considering they live in NYC they are probably around middle class. Plus Visions is a private school for rich kids, it's not something middle class parents can afford, hence why he was only able to get in through a scholarship.
Don't let facts get in the way of the narrative.
And ignore the fact that even if theses anons were right and that Miles is somehow ultra privileged, that actually makes the themes of expectations as a legacy and power/responsibility even stronger so it wouldn't be a bad thing.
Just see black and complain. Then get ready to see next black and complain.
he's not "ultra privilaged" he's just a character that lacks the direction and substance of the character he apes from. He has no flaws of motivation beyond "be spider-man" and that's something, that even in his most superficial interpretations of his character, that peter(spider-man) was never meant to be
it's just really pretty
I thought it looked like unfinished garbage, like they couldn't afford to render everything properly so they just threw a ton of visual effects everywhere to hide it
well the budget was $90 million. Can't win 'em all.
I absolutely despise the "message" of the first movie and the writing clearly shows they didn't know anything about Spider-Man the character.
Do you also hate the Miles Morales comic book character?
How so
I do too, since one of the whole points of Spider-Man is that he hates being a hero and wishes he could have a normal life, but knows that he has to live with the consequences of his actions and be a man. ItSV just says, you have powers be a hero for fun because anyone can be a hero. It doesn't delve into what being a hero means, just what's surface level. Also, Spidey is meant to be relatable so you can learn from his mistakes and apply his lessons into your life, not because he's meant to be a power fantasy.
>since one of the whole points of Spider-Man is that he hates being a hero
That was a fricking major thing in all of one goddamn story
ONE
Every ficking hack and moron whos never read the character has extrapolated a facet to his character that doesn't pan out under even the slightest bit of scrutiny
He doesn't hate being a hero
He hates the inconvenience and pain of self sacrifice and responsibility.
That's not a costume he wears.
That is who he is as a man.
The spider powers and costume just let's him do more.
>That was a fricking major thing in all of one goddamn story
casualtard. At least check your info before posting
Ok, fair on him only hating the pain of self sacrifice. Point still stands that though that the message of ITSV is moronic.
Pregnant Mei rubbing her clit to relieve the pressure of the contractions
>>I never thought I'd be able to do any of this stuff. But I can. Anyone can wear the mask. You can wear the mask. Save lives. Get vaccinated.
kino
>Letting our your inner beast
Why is this a bad thing when men do it, but a good thing when women do it?
They're both bankrupt, individualist messages. Give me Studio Ghibli over these any day.
IDK Whisper of the Heart also has the protagonist girl slack off on her grades so she can impress a boy with her artistic talents. Isn't that also garbage?
That's not individualistic, it's creative, sensitive and romantic. She's a teenage girl.
It's not good to neglect you're studies, but there is value in pursuing your interests and passions.
Anyways, I'd say Porco Rosso is Miyazaki's most egotistical film.
>She's a teenage girl.
well I mean, that's also the reasoning for the stuff in Turning Red.
but did the movie celebrate her selling pictures of herself by saying "my panda my choice"?
IDK it's more like if she could turn into fricken Totoro. And then prostituted herself out.
No, that's incoherent consumerist filth. Modern western kids films are designed to defy any clear moral or critical readings outside of individualist consumerism. Even classic Disney has more substance.
>black kid gets lots of power and doesn't use it to start stealing from people and murdering other nigs
Breaks my suspension of disbelief too much
I fricking hate how they wanted to rip-off Ghibli with the shit on the right.
>I fricking hate how they wanted to rip-off Ghibli with the shit on the right.
I kind of liked it like that. Luca ripped of the low key aspect of Ghibli.
The director is a Chinese-Canadian, of course she would want to pervert Japanese stories.
What Pixar did to Frida Carlo in Coco was similarly grotesque.
Mexican here, tbf Frida deserved it. Everyone over here found that fricking hilarious.
This class discussion is easily resolved by saying he's upper class for America, middle class for New York, and the top 1% rich when it comes to worldwide rankings. The issue is that Peter is lower class for America so you'd imagine his "even this guy could do it!" replacement would be someone who's even less privileged than Peter, maybe even someone without the same powers and costume, but nope, Miles' purpose is self-defeating.
>The issue is that Peter is lower class for America
I have to wonder how true that actually is these days. Has anyone actually broken down how much money Peter earns/spends a month lately or is everyone still basing their idea of Peter's life on 1970s dollars?
Because this board has a tendency to look very far in the past when it comes to comic books.
1970s is the real Peter Parker. The Tom Holland films are morally bankrupt too.
1970's Peter has a house he's going to obviously inherit from his elderly aunt. That's not exactly poor.
Owning a house now means a lot more than it did then. You are being disingenuous, Peter Parker wasn't as middle class as Miles Morales.
>Owning a house now means a lot more than it did then.
Yeah no shit. That's why I asked what time period we were basing the argument on.
Does May even still own a house these days? MCU puts them in a shitty apartment for a reason.
May didn't own a house in the comics you moron. She paid rent. I hate Raimigays so fricking much.
I feel like even marvels writers forgot about this point pretty quickly. I remember may moving out in the 70s but moved back in with a bunch of her old folks home buddies in the late 70s
It's intentionally made to be self-defeating in that way. To send a demoralising message to those that get that subtext, and to hoodwink those that don't get it to praise only the superficial progressive message
that's not even really the problem, he's just a boring character who only wants to be spider-man because spider-man is someone everyone wants to be. But he also has no connection to the character and never expresses ANY interest in the hero before the plot gave him his powers. He's just black spider-man because marvel saw that was a potential market, but there is no motivation there to make him more than a surface level replacement for a popular character
let's face it anon, the most unrealistic thing about peter these days is that an underemployed deadbeat would be able to afford a rooftop apartment with a skylight. Just like the most unrealistic thing about superman is that there's a functional, profitable, newspaper that has earnest and brave reporters reporting about the misdeeds of billoinairs
@131682901
>A legacy character having the motivation of living up to the legacy isn't a motivation.
I wish you guys would stop trying so hard. It's no fun engaging.
it's a pretty empty thing when the movie ends with his father, who b***hed about the original spider-man in the movie, telling him that spider-man did a good job. That and when he learns that it's not a legacy of one guy choosing to do good, but a universal constant of superheros all with the same powers and theme, that he's working in really reduces the initial concept of the character
>It's not a legacy when there's even more people that set a standard you have to live up to.
Man you're really not good at this.
it's not living up to anything when it the movie ends with him doing the thing the predecessor couldn't do anon. He's surpassed dead peter while being told by alive peter that he has. There is no emotional or personal connection there anon, there never HAS been between miles and peter
Why does there need to be?
why shouldn't there be any story connection between two characters who share a name? especially with a character like spider-man where the over all story was always important to the character. Miles has no personal life or connection to his OWN life in these movies, it seems reasonable to want some sort of connection to peters life. But it's about shitting on peter, not writing a good story
Interesting how you went from emotional/personal connection to story connection when story connections can be thematic.
But of course, I don't expect you to acknowledge the idea that Miles' story is thematically a mirror to Peter's. All that melanin is getting in the way.
>spider-mans Uncle is a villain!
wow anon, what an insightful thematic turn
>He thinks Aaron is Miles' Uncle Ben
I shouldn't laugh. Being that literal minded is just a symptom of autism after all.
miles doesn't have an uncle ben anon, he has a jefferson davis like the good little broken buck he is
>I-It's not stealing, it's mirroring for le themes!
Lol
They're both basic b***h "just b urself" morals.
They're trying to reach out to kids to boost their self-esteem but it doesn't actually them.
I wonder if Across the Memeverse will make less than ItS. The concept is so fricking dry and to this day I barely see anyone talk about this film in real life. When Spider-Man talk comes up they usually debate the big guns only.
all my friends think it's going to make more than the last movie.
Why do they think that?
Well it's a well-liked movie. The first one is. And they're big movie fans who keep track of the business and they just think there will be buzz, when it's time.
>I barely see anyone talk about this film in real life. When Spider-Man talk comes up they usually debate the big guns only.Few people saw it compared to the the live action movies. Despite all the hype and shilling it gets, it was a very modest hit at best.
Maybe it was more popular in home media, I don't know.
Didn't even Rio 2 make more than that film? That's pretty bad for Spider-Man
no, it didn't. Not in NA+Canada. Well, the overseas sales were pretty lackluster for Spider-Verse.
Rio 2 Box office
>~500 Million
SpiderVerse Box Office
>~376 Million
I kind of liked Spider-Verse but it just seemed average to me outside the art style.
Turning Red though made me feel a lot of sympathy for the main character. So I liked it more.
honestly surprises me Spider-Mens came to this thread.
what else is there to talk about with turning red? it's a run of the mill coming of age story with some weird uses of sexuality about early teenage girls, which, while admittedly probably not to inaccurate, seems odd to celebrate in a children's movie. Suffice to say this threads trajectory was still probably what OP intended
>what else is there to talk about with turning red?
plenty IMO, just doesn't have a lot of comic book lore for people to sperg out over.
Though the heydey of Turning Red threads getting lots of replies might be over.
>To of Cinemaphile‘s biggest hateboners pitted against each other
>Shitflinging over Miles dominating the thread
Lol, lmao even
Well, yeah. At the end of the day Mei is still an asian e-girl. Of course Cinemaphile is gonna spare her the brunt of their ire when Miles is over there having exaggerated swagger.
I honestly didn't know Cinemaphile hated Spider-Verse because it's so well liked outside, by the general audience.
I mean Turning Red will probably win the Oscar just like Spider-Verse did.
>I honestly didn't know Cinemaphile hated Spider-Verse because it's so well liked outside, by the general audience.
How new are you?
Cinemaphile has hated Miles since his first preview image.
Well I knew they hated comic book miles but the movie I thought would be a different story.
why would people like bendis shit getting popular anon? Especially since the movie doubles down on everything that people hate about miles in the first place
well I'm a pleb who doesn't care about the comics.
>by the general audience.
General audience really didn't give it much of a chance, it made like, what, half the gross of the Spider Man who performed so poorly they nixed the entire series and went to disney? Critics loved it, but you know critics are pretty resoundingly ignored by the public at large because they tend to be dumb as frick and push stuff that's also badly made because it checks the right boxes, never forget that somehow Ghostbuster 2016 was certified fresh and has a better score than Joker. If that doesn't prove that critics are stupid fricks who should be ignored, nothing will. Still, I'm sure people will give the sequel a chance since No Way Home got everyone jazzed for Multiverse Spider-Men shenanigans and made hella bank. So long as they don't frick over Real Peter, they'll probably do pretty well even, but if they do go that route expect a HARD drop like Dr Strange or The Last Jedi or... fricking everything that does that went. Surely Sony wouldn't want that and learned their lesson, right?
Really hoping they do better on the script for the next one, the first one's script was an absolute mess. Visuals were pretty much the only thing that saved it because WOW that plot was broken.
I haven't watched it in a while, but could you explain what's actually wrong with the story of the film? Not disagreeing, just wanna know.
Well you said it’s been a while so I’ll take you at face value on that. Post count is limited so I’ll stick to the worst stuff
>Gwen
This is a big one because she’s a big chunk of the plot and her entire story is a massive plot hole that only gets bigger the more you think about it. She is there because she “sensed a spider” in the school. Problem with that, she’s there on Miles first day of school. Let’s ignore her getting into this tightly controlled school that’s hard to get into and it being hard to get into is a major plot point for the first third of the movie, she sensed a person being there who had never been there with powers, and this action dictates everything she does.
Then, way more egregious is Kingpin in the midsection. Now during the film we are told over and over his sole driving factor is getting his family back, his entire motivation is that and only that. Then after the Spider-men steal the computer, She-Ock reveals that because of this they’ve now got the way to turn on the previously broken machine. So, what does he do? Throws a party… just throws a Spider-Man themed party, for reasons? Him attacking Miles doesn’t even make sense, he didn’t need anything from them at that point, but after that he throws a party instead of turning it on? Just stops that motivator that’s supposedly his one driving factor just to stretch out the movie for no reason.
this bleeds right into the finale where Miles has to overcome the guy who killed the previous spider-Man. Only, he doesn’t. Kingpin has already shown he can just swing and end it, and he just… doesn’t. He just stands there while miles sloooowly gets up and puts a hand on his shoulder, the only reason he wins is because the Villain straight up stops like he bluescreened. No reason, just stops. His whole victory is hollow because it relies on him just, stopping
Then there’s the sad scene for the mecha, the other spiders just appearing, it’s a mess
> Then there’s the sad scene for the mecha,
I don’t remember that, what happened?
Peni Parker's Mecha ded.
I remembered it got destroyed but I didn’t remember it being a sad scene. I don’t remember most of the other spider people
That’s really fricking stupid
>That’s really fricking stupid
I mean this is the same movie that ends with Kingpin just deciding "You know, lets see where this goes" after hitting Miles once and letting him stand up. I guess he was expecting this new Spider-Man to pull out a candy bar or something, who fricking knows because the movie doesn't bother explaining why he went all RPG boss and waited his turn.
In the final battle the mecha that Penny pilots gets destroyed.
Now, at first, it looks like they're implying they killed the Spider who actually controls it and everyone's standing around looking all sad and there's sad music, the whole nine yards. Which would make sense, right? There's a big sad scene because this cute little spider who clearly means a lot to the character got squished.
But no! The spider crawls out and is completely unharmed, and you'd think this would mean that everyone cheers up because yay the little guy lived. Instead they just keep looking on sadly at the robot, who I remind you is established as NOT an AI, but something the little spider controlled and otherwise had no like, mind or personality or anything. So they're all gathered around mourning this robot and treating it like this serious emotional death.
It's like they really wanted a sad scene to up the stakes but they wouldn't let them kill the spider, only they didn't have anything better in this already very messy script. I mean damn, the other spiders just drop in and say one note thing and the movie just doesn't develop them at all and somehow it's supposed to be all sad when they have to go home. Bye, uh, person I met an hour ago and I only know one thing about because you didn't develop anything else.
This thing needed a lot more polish.
>Ghostbuster 2016 was certified fresh and has a better score than Joker
Well, it's more complicated than that, but sure maybe critics were too harsh on your incelKino.
Still won at the Venice Film Festival.
Turning Red's message is literally the same one as Cars 2.
Something to do with alternative fuels and being a hayseed redneck?
>We've all got a messy, loud, weird part of ourselves hidden away. And a lot of us never let it out.
The only difference is that Mater always keeps it out.
I want to say what makes Spider-Man 2099 a good character and Miles a bad one. A few people in this thread have been talking about Mile's thematic connection to Peter, and while that is a valid criticism it only works against Miles. Case in point, Miguel. Miguel is somebody who donned the Spider-Man identity solely because he had spider powers, not because he wishes to live up to the previous guy. Miguel doesn't give a frick about Peter, and that isn't better shown than their differences. Miguel is a straight up butthole, not a joking butthole, just an a massive and rude prick; while his Spider-Man is serious and no-nonsense, barely quipping. Plus, unlike Peter, Miguel doesn't have any gripes about killing his enemies. All these things I said may make it seem like he doesn't have a thematic connection to Peter, and that is the case. What makes Miguel an interesting character is that he isn't the original and doesn't try to be either, he just chose the name because it fit. On the other hand we have Miles, who is a character who is basically just Peter except black and speaks in ebonics. His entire character doesnt work without Peter, and as such he can never stand on his own. The fact that most normies don't know that Spider-Man 2099 being a beaner just proves that Miles is only popular for being the " Black Spider-Man ", not because he's actually interesting; whereas Miguel is popular because he's actually cool. One character tries to be Peter and loses himself in those shoes, another just does his own thing.
First one's kind of stupid when you think about it, because it implies his identity is tied to the name rather than himself and his own accomplishments are doomed to be compared to another. "Anyone can wear the mask" instantly devalues it because it implies it takes nothing of value in order to become it and discounts the actual feats that made that mask and name what it was.
Second one is just someone wanting to be a little bit shittier and not be judged for it, which isn't the worst idea. I don't know why she wants it celebrated when those things usually cause problems for people who aren't them, but I guess it appeals more to kids who constantly feel stifled because people don';t want to deal with their shit.
Both are really only appealing to a very specific subset of people.