This was already answered in Zatanna’s 1993 miniseries.
A black one.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Was he normal? Wasn't his mom a witch or something?
3 months ago
Anonymous
His mom was a elder magic user, but he was a normal jazz musician.
3 months ago
Anonymous
ew
3 months ago
Anonymous
Huh?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Racism
3 months ago
Anonymous
Man, Zatanna is so hot in that open blouse and panties. I dig the art style too.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Zatanna is kind of a bawd.
Like, she's not an overt prostitute, but she does seem to get around a lot.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Had she ever been shown to have any romantic or sexual involvement with anyone in the comics before the John Constantine reveal in mid-80’s Swamp Thing and after this jazz guy?
Not sure about Mary Marvel, but this is absolutely not true in the case of Captain Marvel and the decades of litigation over the name is why he's Shazam now.
3 months ago
Anonymous
i think ive got my points completely mixed around, your point makes more sense than mine.
The comicbook title "Captain Marvel" is what Marvel Comics owns. They can't copyright "Marvel" alone cause it's a proper word. It would be like DC owning "Detective".
Like you said - depends on the writer.
Nothing being written today could support even a one shot. Congratulations on having LESS imagination than all these writers combined.
>Congratulations on having LESS imagination than all these writers combined.
Has nothing to do with imagination, it has to do with viability in the marketplace. They might as well release a comic about an OC if they’re doing anything about anyone other than Mary on that list.
When someone says “support an ongoing” they don’t mean “can some egotistical douchebag on the internet come up with fan fic tier stories” they mean “can they sustain the sales to maintain viability?”
Real answers?
Batgirl. Supergirl. Harley Quinn. Poison Ivy.
But personally I've always wanted a Blackfire series. Maybe not an ongoing, but I think she could support a mini. She's such a beautifully flawed character. A 12 issue mini dealing with realpolitik on Tamaran and in the Vega system has a lot of promise.
What do you mean? Poison Ivy is about to hit 2 years on her solo series. ICv2 doesn't publish full sales charts but it was a top 50 book just a few months ago.
This thread is full of people who have literally no idea what they're talking about. They think books that actually exist/have existed and done well are insane impossibilities.
Supergirl, Batgirl, Catwoman, Powergirl, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy are all characters who have actually managed to keep an ongoing for a decent time. Personally, I think a Starfire or Zatanna, or Raven series would probably be decently successful but Dc is full of morons who would bungle any easy layup.
>Lol pure fan girl tism there.
literally has a book out right now
>She’s really more of a character for boys and men but they refuse to let that reality sink in.
The character sold best aimed at little girls(and Captain MArvel when aimed at little boys). Adult fanboys barely care about captain Marvel, let alone his sister.
Actually, no. I'm thinking of galaxy-spanning quests, universal birthrights, the relationship between trauma and identity, what is life (x2), and extreme violence.
Oh, and Mary Marvel - that's my dick 🙂
Rose & Thorn
Mazikeen
Fatality
Death
Green Lantern (Tangent)
Mary Marvel
Zealot
Cassandra frickin' Cain. She'd be Nightwing level constantly in print if not for Didio.
Real answers?
Batgirl. Supergirl. Harley Quinn. Poison Ivy.
But personally I've always wanted a Blackfire series. Maybe not an ongoing, but I think she could support a mini. She's such a beautifully flawed character. A 12 issue mini dealing with realpolitik on Tamaran and in the Vega system has a lot of promise.
People like this clearly don’t pay for comics they just say things they’d like to read for free.
Kind of a weird question because we have 80 years of evidence and the answer is "literally only Wonder Woman and Catwoman" since no other female DC characters have managed to keep one going. Maybe Batgirl if you count all of the various different Batgirl titles as one, though that's cheating as it's multiple different Batgirls. Is Cass's Batgirl the third-longest female solo ongoing with the same character after WW and CW?
Real answers?
Batgirl. Supergirl. Harley Quinn. Poison Ivy.
But personally I've always wanted a Blackfire series. Maybe not an ongoing, but I think she could support a mini. She's such a beautifully flawed character. A 12 issue mini dealing with realpolitik on Tamaran and in the Vega system has a lot of promise.
12 issues isn’t a mini it’s a maxi. A mini and maxi are both “limiteds”. Blackfire could not at all do a maxi, any character can “sustain” a mini because it would be complete before starting and go to market no matter the sales.
Oh, no, I'm laughing at the Nightwing comparison.
In those last few years leading up to IC, even at its worst, Nightwing was pushing a good 10k more issues per month than Batgirl.
And higher sales thanNightwing early on, and then still higher than the Robin book when she got cancelled.
You too. Why say shit that's so easily disprovable?
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2006/2006-02.html
>You too. Why say shit that's so easily disprovable?
That chart confirms what the other OP said:
>still higher than the Robin book when she got cancelled
Your chart shows exactly that. Don't know about the " higher sales thanNightwing early on" claim, can you provide a chart from the early years of the Batgirl run so we can see how it compares to Nightwing sales at that time?
>. Don't know about the " higher sales thanNightwing early on" claim, can you provide a chart from the early years of the Batgirl run so we can see how it compares to Nightwing sales at that time?
I said early on, check out this chart from 2000
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2000/2000-05.html
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's issue #4.
3 months ago
Anonymous
And it stays above Nightwing until issue 20.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Nta but just barely outselling issue 45 of Nightwing is not a big deal.
Marv Wolfman's contract says he gets first right of refusal if DC wants to do a Raven solo comic.
The only solo story not written by Marv is the Kami Garcia stuff, which might not count since it's not a monthly.
>Marv Wolfman's contract says he gets first right of refusal if DC wants to do a Raven solo comic.
Then just have him write it and pass it off to a writer he likes when he’s ready to leave. It doesn’t need to be difficult.
Objectively Cassandra Cain and anyone saying otherwise is mistaking their personal grudges for reality. Seven years is a LONG fricking time for any female character to carry a title and she would have gone on for longer if she wasn't sabotaged by actively hostile editorial.
Also: Supergirl, Power Girl, Harley Quinn (le sigh), Catwoman can do it with the right team. And if you can get genius level talent, honestly almost literally any character is good enough, I would read a Miss Army Knife solo if it had Morrison writing and some sick manga artist on the pen.
She carried a solo for a decade. It was rebooted at Rebirth like every other comic not named Action or Detective Comics. It ranged from upper mid to lower mid in the sales charts.
Going by relative sales, it was more popular than any other Batgirl books.
I feel like Vixen has potential but probably not an ongoing right away. DC missed their chance when JLU was around, THAT was the time to start a Vixen series.
>So replace Hawkgirl with Vixen and John with Hal? I could see Hal and Vixen hooking up.
That would have been better than what we got. The DCAU dropped the ball with John and it makes me sad. It's like they went out of their way to make him incredibly boring.
lmao since when does that matter, you know marvel will push anything out. its like chucking shit at a wall and seeing what sticks
its just lots of shit smeared walls though
>hey can we get a book about Fire and Ice being sexy and fighting crime >you can have a slice of life book where they're washed up losers
Every fricking time. We want sexy action books, they give us middling SoL, and then use this to prove it can't sell.
>We want sexy action books, they give us middling SoL, and then use this to prove it can't sell.
>Put Power Girl in limbo for years >Bring her back >Take away her name, personality, agency, curves and costume >Make her Superman's depressed loser sidekick who can't do anything herself >Focus on some random teen titan New Girl-wannabe instead >It sells like shit >"Looks like nobody wants Power Girl anymore"
Apparently this is what DC wants. They even rejected Palmiotti and Conner multiple times.Clearly, this is the direction they want for Power Girl-inoffensive, i.e, neutered and "safe". But sexy covers are just fine. Apparently cheesecake is fine as long as it's on the cover and not in the actual book itself.
>DC puts Power Girl in limbo because she's too sexy >DC sees twitter acting like Tex Avery's Wolf over any female character >DC decides now it's safe to bring back Power Girl >But DC knows about her reputation, so they make her "safe" for general audiences >But DC wants to have their cake and eat it too, so they try to print as many sexy covers as possible >The actual book is just miserable and poorly-written tumblresque crap >The only people buying it are just buying it for the covers
>We want sexy action books, they give us middling SoL, and then use this to prove it can't sell.
>Put Power Girl in limbo for years >Bring her back >Take away her name, personality, agency, curves and costume >Make her Superman's depressed loser sidekick who can't do anything herself >Focus on some random teen titan New Girl-wannabe instead >It sells like shit >"Looks like nobody wants Power Girl anymore"
Apparently this is what DC wants. They even rejected Palmiotti and Conner multiple times.Clearly, this is the direction they want for Power Girl-inoffensive, i.e, neutered and "safe". But sexy covers are just fine. Apparently cheesecake is fine as long as it's on the cover and not in the actual book itself.
>bring something back >frick it all up on purpose >"gee golly guess no-one wanted it after all ;)"
Why the hell is this pattern so consistent across every artistic medium?
>Shelve a character because they're "problematic" >Bring them back >Sabotage their return >It flops >Lose money
It doesn't make any sense. To prove a point? To keep the rights? At least with a shelved character, you aren't bleeding money printing shit no-one wants to read
The problem is there's nobody left at DC who can write Amethyst well anymore, and as evidence I submit the last attempt at rebooting Amethyst in such a way all her memories of her kingdom were fricked up.
>Wait, WHAT reboot?
Exactly.
My point exactly.
That's how much of a nothingburger it was even before getting cancelled.
Huh. I’ve never heard of that one. I assumed the character had been dormant since the New 52. It’s a shame they don’t try more with the character with someone who gets how she be portrayed, I feel like done right you could get women who enjoy fantasy manga to get into Amethyst.
Pre-Married Lois Lane
Wonder Woman
Batgirl
Supergirl
as far less obvious ones: Black Canary or Zantana
The problem with "magic users" is that their power set is always "whatever they want" so there is no limit to what they can do.
Black Canary as a street level vigilante or as globe trotting adventurer is a popular enough premise for other comics that it can work for her too.
Fire and Ice but its written and Drawn by Adam Warren and its just Dirty Pair but less outer space stuff
>The problem with "magic users" is that their power set is always "whatever they want" so there is no limit to what they can do.
It's only a problem when your magic system is either 1. poorly explained with no defined rules or 2. the writers are too stupid to pull a Vertigo, and work in the dream logic of magic into as much a detriment as a boon to the magician.
The real problem is that DC no longer has the calibre of writers who can make magic FRICKING INTERESTING. Or...technically they do, but for whatever reason Yang, Humphries and Spurrier are sidelined (actually isn't Spurrier straight up gone from DC?) while the writers in charge of DC's narrative of a whole gave us.
Dark Crisis.
My point is fundamental problem with DC has never been the characters being able to do whatever, and the problem being the writers being unable to play with the idea creatively.
I've always thought Zee's magic should have a heavy Vancian element to it. Her magic is technically "do anything" but in practice she's limited to what she had the foresight to prepare.
DC needs to have someone like Morrison come up with some guidelines—not so much rules—on how magic should work in the DCU. He knows enough about the history of DC and its characters and knows about the actual occult so I think he could combine them in a way that’s interesting.
>Fire and Ice but its written and Drawn by Adam Warren and its just Dirty Pair but less outer space stuff
Exactly. Fire and Ice should be written like a sexy action manga. DC could easily make that work.
They (and many other characters) aren't selling because DC keeps putting absolutely horrible creators on them. No character can sell a book that has both shit writing and shit art.
DC doesn't "put" horrible creators on them, I'm willing to bet that they're characters that no one wants to write about. Waid, Johns, King, Zdarsky, Morrison, even Bendis are never going to want to write Batgirls or characters in that tier.
It's either Batman, Superman, GL, WW, etc... tier for them or some random high concept elseworld event.
Now that Billy is Shazam, should Mary Marvel still be called by that name? She’d be the only Marvel in the former Marvel Family, but maybe that could be a good thing.
Although, frankly, I’d change Billy’s name to Captain Thunder. “Shazam” is a terrible super-hero name.
She's supposed to be the same Power Girl from Pre-Crisis Earth-Two. Leah even references her past sometimes (mainly just Superman and her symbioship), but also does the "alien doesn't understand Earth" trope (she's new to Earth and doesn't understand human customs and idioms and needs help understanding them). Not to mention the complete 180 her characterization took. She might as well be a different character altogether
Leah doesn't know how actual people talk, so she just writes everybody like they're in a tumblr fanfic. They're not even characters, just tropes (quirky, alien, etc...)
I want her to interact more with space stuff. L.E.G.I.O.N., Green Lantern Corps, Adam Strange, etc. Maybe have an arc where she's chasing Blackfire through galaxies and she keeps running into the cosmic cast.
I was surprised to learn her book didn’t flop with the rest of DCYou and instead was on par with Red Hood and Batman Beyond. And those only flopped when they announced rebirth.
Meanwhile she got put into Damian’s shit team while Jason got a relaunch (+ multiple failed relaunches after) and Beyond got to go to #50…
Black Orchid (either version)
Raven (see last entry)
Zatanna (it could work if the right writer used their imagination to make the book innovative, maybe bring back Grant Morrison like in the old Seven Soldiers days)
Superman’s girlfriend, Lois Lane (that was the old title of her first “solo”, right?) >cheating on the no team rule
The Female Furies (I’m sure their book spiked in sales with that Granny Goodness/Darkseid rape retcon)
Some kind of wholesome anthology of all of the superheroes wives and girlfriends without any hint or mention of Identity Crisis
I feel like Raven solos don’t work out. They should catch some of the vibe with the cartoons and have her team up with Starfire in some kind of duo team
Zatanna but only if Dini's writing
Good choice. Who would be the artist?
Dan Mora is guaranteed sales
So essentially female characters can carry ongoings if they’re popular with cosplayers? I’ve long had that suspicion.
That's why their costumes get redesigned to cover up skin and wear jackets and shit or regular clothes
That’s too bad for the cosplayers. They usually love the sexier costumes.
Yeah, look at Spider-Gwen. Cosplayers jumped onto that in late 2014 and made her popular. Same with Gwenpool for a while.
>Zatanna but only if Dini's writing
He ships her with Batman, he doesn't have the character's interests at heart.
Is that better than shipping her with Constantine? At least Bruce is a decent daddy.
Both suck. The moment she gets paired with those characters, she's just their supporting character. It's better to give her own love interest.
Now I’m wondering what type of normal guy Zatanna would go for.
Steve Trevor. And her and Wonder Woman would have to mud wrestle nightly for the right to slurp his pp.
This was already answered in Zatanna’s 1993 miniseries.
A black one.
Was he normal? Wasn't his mom a witch or something?
His mom was a elder magic user, but he was a normal jazz musician.
ew
Huh?
Racism
Man, Zatanna is so hot in that open blouse and panties. I dig the art style too.
Zatanna is kind of a bawd.
Like, she's not an overt prostitute, but she does seem to get around a lot.
Had she ever been shown to have any romantic or sexual involvement with anyone in the comics before the John Constantine reveal in mid-80’s Swamp Thing and after this jazz guy?
Constantine is just as bad. Personally I ship her with that normie guy from that one 90s mini.
Zatanna, Supergirl, Batgirl, maybe Starfire
Unfortunately Harley Quinn
Mainly just older characters popular with fans and whatever character they want to push for casuals
Michael Green / Michael Johnson wrote an amazing Supergirl.
I loved that costume. Supergirl is one of those characters who should wear different costumes from time to time.
I agree. I would add Black Canary and Wonder Woman.
But it all depends on the team behind it and what vision or direction they have for the character.
Harley Quinn, apparently.
Harley absolutely cannot support an ongoing.
Rose & Thorn
Mazikeen
Fatality
Death
Green Lantern (Tangent)
Mary Marvel
Zealot
Is Mary Marvel still called Mary Marvel? Also, could DC legally call a book “Mary Marvel”?
Yes, and yes.
Interesting. I thought they couldn’t have “Marvel” in the title of a book.
shazam predates marvelman, i think. but yes DC can get away with having marvel in the title
*fricking captain marvel, not marvelman.
Not sure about Mary Marvel, but this is absolutely not true in the case of Captain Marvel and the decades of litigation over the name is why he's Shazam now.
i think ive got my points completely mixed around, your point makes more sense than mine.
Nah they just can’t have captain marvel.
The comicbook title "Captain Marvel" is what Marvel Comics owns. They can't copyright "Marvel" alone cause it's a proper word. It would be like DC owning "Detective".
Hmmm. Then DC should just release a Mary Marvel ongoing.
Mary is the only one and her last mini sold like hot dog shit on a summers day so it’s heavily reliant on the writer.
She’s really more of a character for boys and men but they refuse to let that reality sink in.
The rest of your list couldn’t sustain a one shot lol
Like you said - depends on the writer.
Nothing being written today could support even a one shot. Congratulations on having LESS imagination than all these writers combined.
>Congratulations on having LESS imagination than all these writers combined.
Has nothing to do with imagination, it has to do with viability in the marketplace. They might as well release a comic about an OC if they’re doing anything about anyone other than Mary on that list.
When someone says “support an ongoing” they don’t mean “can some egotistical douchebag on the internet come up with fan fic tier stories” they mean “can they sustain the sales to maintain viability?”
>poison ivy
Lol pure fan girl tism there.
What do you mean? Poison Ivy is about to hit 2 years on her solo series. ICv2 doesn't publish full sales charts but it was a top 50 book just a few months ago.
This thread is full of people who have literally no idea what they're talking about. They think books that actually exist/have existed and done well are insane impossibilities.
Supergirl, Batgirl, Catwoman, Powergirl, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy are all characters who have actually managed to keep an ongoing for a decent time. Personally, I think a Starfire or Zatanna, or Raven series would probably be decently successful but Dc is full of morons who would bungle any easy layup.
>Lol pure fan girl tism there.
literally has a book out right now
>She’s really more of a character for boys and men but they refuse to let that reality sink in.
The character sold best aimed at little girls(and Captain MArvel when aimed at little boys). Adult fanboys barely care about captain Marvel, let alone his sister.
More Mary Marvel solos please.
No, he thinks with his dick.
Actually, no. I'm thinking of galaxy-spanning quests, universal birthrights, the relationship between trauma and identity, what is life (x2), and extreme violence.
Oh, and Mary Marvel - that's my dick 🙂
jenny quantum
Cyclone.
People like this clearly don’t pay for comics they just say things they’d like to read for free.
See
People did pay for Cass comics for almost 10 years.
I have 15 long boxes full right beside me. Choke my dick with your lack of an argument, homosexual.
No you don’t
Cope and seethe, loser.
I accept your concession
I’m asking what marvel has to do with fire & ice or the thread topic you moron
>c-c-concession...
Shut the frick up and get a fricking life you absolute fricking LOSER.
I would like a Black Canary fighting series. Please.
Kind of a weird question because we have 80 years of evidence and the answer is "literally only Wonder Woman and Catwoman" since no other female DC characters have managed to keep one going. Maybe Batgirl if you count all of the various different Batgirl titles as one, though that's cheating as it's multiple different Batgirls. Is Cass's Batgirl the third-longest female solo ongoing with the same character after WW and CW?
Real answers?
Batgirl. Supergirl. Harley Quinn. Poison Ivy.
But personally I've always wanted a Blackfire series. Maybe not an ongoing, but I think she could support a mini. She's such a beautifully flawed character. A 12 issue mini dealing with realpolitik on Tamaran and in the Vega system has a lot of promise.
Speaking of minis, maybe DC should try that with some of their female characters and see if they sell enough to justify an ongoing.
12 issues isn’t a mini it’s a maxi. A mini and maxi are both “limiteds”. Blackfire could not at all do a maxi, any character can “sustain” a mini because it would be complete before starting and go to market no matter the sales.
I'm surprising that tamaran lore has never gotten a solo act
Cassandra frickin' Cain. She'd be Nightwing level constantly in print if not for Didio.
Awful character who comes off like a DONUT STEEL
This isn't a hypothetical scenario, she had one of the longest female solo DC ongoing series of all time.
And higher sales thanNightwing early on, and then still higher than the Robin book when she got cancelled.
Oh, no, I'm laughing at the Nightwing comparison.
In those last few years leading up to IC, even at its worst, Nightwing was pushing a good 10k more issues per month than Batgirl.
You too. Why say shit that's so easily disprovable?
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2006/2006-02.html
>You too. Why say shit that's so easily disprovable?
That chart confirms what the other OP said:
>still higher than the Robin book when she got cancelled
Your chart shows exactly that. Don't know about the " higher sales thanNightwing early on" claim, can you provide a chart from the early years of the Batgirl run so we can see how it compares to Nightwing sales at that time?
>still higher than the Robin book when she got cancelled
>Robin - 32,109
>Batgirl - 26,536
I don't get it.
>. Don't know about the " higher sales thanNightwing early on" claim, can you provide a chart from the early years of the Batgirl run so we can see how it compares to Nightwing sales at that time?
I said early on, check out this chart from 2000
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2000/2000-05.html
It's issue #4.
And it stays above Nightwing until issue 20.
Nta but just barely outselling issue 45 of Nightwing is not a big deal.
Batgirls shows that no one cares about Cass or Steph.
>Cassandra frickin' Cain. She'd be Nightwing level constantly in print if not for Didio.
my sides
Raven probably. It's strange DC has never seriously tried to capitalize on her popularity.
DC exclusively hires editors over 40 who are entirely out of touch.
Makes sense. DC oddly has writers/editors way more expressive about their fanboyish compared to Marvel.
I think you’re right. They put her in teams but I could see her working as a solo character with her own cast and villains.
>Raven probably. It's strange DC has never seriously tried to capitalize on her popularity.
Except they do and the fans want Raven/BB.
>beast boy isn't green
weird
It's so the Brazillian artist can self insert.
Yeah, I hate when BB isn’t green. It always feels like a storyboard for a visually boring TV show.
Raven has had two solo mini series, they're okay
Marv Wolfman's contract says he gets first right of refusal if DC wants to do a Raven solo comic.
The only solo story not written by Marv is the Kami Garcia stuff, which might not count since it's not a monthly.
>Marv Wolfman's contract says he gets first right of refusal if DC wants to do a Raven solo comic.
Then just have him write it and pass it off to a writer he likes when he’s ready to leave. It doesn’t need to be difficult.
Objectively Cassandra Cain and anyone saying otherwise is mistaking their personal grudges for reality. Seven years is a LONG fricking time for any female character to carry a title and she would have gone on for longer if she wasn't sabotaged by actively hostile editorial.
Also: Supergirl, Power Girl, Harley Quinn (le sigh), Catwoman can do it with the right team. And if you can get genius level talent, honestly almost literally any character is good enough, I would read a Miss Army Knife solo if it had Morrison writing and some sick manga artist on the pen.
Barbara Gordon
Barbara Gordon has never once carried a successful solo.
She carried a solo for a decade. It was rebooted at Rebirth like every other comic not named Action or Detective Comics. It ranged from upper mid to lower mid in the sales charts.
Going by relative sales, it was more popular than any other Batgirl books.
I don’t think any DC character outside of Batman and Nightwing can support a book.
Supergirl
Batgirl
Harley Quinn
Catwoman
Poison Ivy seemingly
Zatanna is a good suggestion
After that it's a struggle but Black Canary and Vixen might work in limited series
I feel like Vixen has potential but probably not an ongoing right away. DC missed their chance when JLU was around, THAT was the time to start a Vixen series.
Vixen was wasted in the DCAU. She should have been the black member instead of John Stewart.
So replace Hawkgirl with Vixen and John with Hal? I could see Hal and Vixen hooking up.
>So replace Hawkgirl with Vixen and John with Hal? I could see Hal and Vixen hooking up.
That would have been better than what we got. The DCAU dropped the ball with John and it makes me sad. It's like they went out of their way to make him incredibly boring.
Talia or Lady Shiva would be fun, at least for me. But I don’t really see it happening.
To add another to the list of more obvious things people have brought up - Lois Lane has done it before.
ice and fire
Their last book bombed horribly
lmao since when does that matter, you know marvel will push anything out. its like chucking shit at a wall and seeing what sticks
its just lots of shit smeared walls though
>marvel
are you trying to say marvel dont push shit out?
It's more like it just comes flying out, y'know?
yeah like when you have a good dinner and wake up 4 hours later needing to poop
ILL FALLOW IT TILL THE VERY END OF MY CONCESSION
>hey can we get a book about Fire and Ice being sexy and fighting crime
>you can have a slice of life book where they're washed up losers
Every fricking time. We want sexy action books, they give us middling SoL, and then use this to prove it can't sell.
Fire and Ice should be written like Dirty Pair or You’re Under Arrest.
>Fire & Ice written like Dirty Pair
The problem is they aren't the types to blow shit up that much. But I get the flavor you're going for.
Pretty much all female-only books should be written as sexy action-adventure fluff unless there's a damned good reason to do something else.
>We want sexy action books, they give us middling SoL, and then use this to prove it can't sell.
>Put Power Girl in limbo for years
>Bring her back
>Take away her name, personality, agency, curves and costume
>Make her Superman's depressed loser sidekick who can't do anything herself
>Focus on some random teen titan New Girl-wannabe instead
>It sells like shit
>"Looks like nobody wants Power Girl anymore"
Apparently this is what DC wants. They even rejected Palmiotti and Conner multiple times.Clearly, this is the direction they want for Power Girl-inoffensive, i.e, neutered and "safe". But sexy covers are just fine. Apparently cheesecake is fine as long as it's on the cover and not in the actual book itself.
>DC puts Power Girl in limbo because she's too sexy
>DC sees twitter acting like Tex Avery's Wolf over any female character
>DC decides now it's safe to bring back Power Girl
>But DC knows about her reputation, so they make her "safe" for general audiences
>But DC wants to have their cake and eat it too, so they try to print as many sexy covers as possible
>The actual book is just miserable and poorly-written tumblresque crap
>The only people buying it are just buying it for the covers
this
the only people who buy female-led books like Power Girl, Catwoman and Harley nowadays are people who like the awesome covers.
>bring something back
>frick it all up on purpose
>"gee golly guess no-one wanted it after all ;)"
Why the hell is this pattern so consistent across every artistic medium?
>Shelve a character because they're "problematic"
>Bring them back
>Sabotage their return
>It flops
>Lose money
It doesn't make any sense. To prove a point? To keep the rights? At least with a shelved character, you aren't bleeding money printing shit no-one wants to read
That's because it fricking sucked. If they make it good it would sell.
All I want is a Babsgirl series that doesn't suck balls.
didnt like arkham knights?! such a good show!
all of them if the writing and art are good, none of them if the writing is bad (as it is now with catwoman, wonder woman, harley).
None, not even wonder slur
Do it, Johns/King. It'd be a trash fire, and I'm genuinely curious how bad it would go.
>For it is well established that true gods demand wore than mere words promising gore and glory
Come on Tom King, you're barely even hiding it anymore.
It honestly sad. And worrying
A new amythist series with a dark fantasy tilt by a good writer would be a buy for me. Also due for a new warlord book.
The problem is there's nobody left at DC who can write Amethyst well anymore, and as evidence I submit the last attempt at rebooting Amethyst in such a way all her memories of her kingdom were fricked up.
>Wait, WHAT reboot?
Exactly.
My point exactly.
That's how much of a nothingburger it was even before getting cancelled.
Are you talking about Sword of Sorcery from the New 52? Or was there another Amethyst book after that?
The one from Rebirth where everyone in Gemworld hated Amethyst
Huh. I’ve never heard of that one. I assumed the character had been dormant since the New 52. It’s a shame they don’t try more with the character with someone who gets how she be portrayed, I feel like done right you could get women who enjoy fantasy manga to get into Amethyst.
It was tied to Bendis and his Young Justice reboot I believe.
A new Amethyst book would be cool, as would a Warlord book.
Voodoo. WildC.A.T.S forevah!~
Catwoman
Harley Quinn
Poison Ivy
Cassandra Cain
Raven
Starfire
Primer
Mera
Zatanna
Ideally any of them can but as history has shown it won't last long. A new ongoing lasting 25 issues is rare these days.
I think we need more test runs before giving characters ongoings. Like a few minis to both gauge and perhaps build interest.
>Batman rolling in b***hes
>women will only bone Supes if he's the last man on Earth
Oof
Girls throw themselves at Clark too
Pre-Married Lois Lane
Wonder Woman
Batgirl
Supergirl
as far less obvious ones: Black Canary or Zantana
The problem with "magic users" is that their power set is always "whatever they want" so there is no limit to what they can do.
Black Canary as a street level vigilante or as globe trotting adventurer is a popular enough premise for other comics that it can work for her too.
Fire and Ice but its written and Drawn by Adam Warren and its just Dirty Pair but less outer space stuff
>The problem with "magic users" is that their power set is always "whatever they want" so there is no limit to what they can do.
It's only a problem when your magic system is either 1. poorly explained with no defined rules or 2. the writers are too stupid to pull a Vertigo, and work in the dream logic of magic into as much a detriment as a boon to the magician.
The real problem is that DC no longer has the calibre of writers who can make magic FRICKING INTERESTING. Or...technically they do, but for whatever reason Yang, Humphries and Spurrier are sidelined (actually isn't Spurrier straight up gone from DC?) while the writers in charge of DC's narrative of a whole gave us.
Dark Crisis.
My point is fundamental problem with DC has never been the characters being able to do whatever, and the problem being the writers being unable to play with the idea creatively.
Spurrier is writing The Flash.
I've always thought Zee's magic should have a heavy Vancian element to it. Her magic is technically "do anything" but in practice she's limited to what she had the foresight to prepare.
DC needs to have someone like Morrison come up with some guidelines—not so much rules—on how magic should work in the DCU. He knows enough about the history of DC and its characters and knows about the actual occult so I think he could combine them in a way that’s interesting.
Grant should become editor
Isn’t he already the editor for Heavy Metal? Or is it someone else now?
heavy metal goes through editors like mad, he left like 4 or 5 years ago. It's basically a scam company that doesn't even fulfill subscriptions.
Ah. It feels like time passing faster the older you get. 4 years ago feels like 1 year ago.
Only if he's a writer-editor. I'm not more inclined to buy tard comics just because Morrison wrangled them lol.
>Fire and Ice but its written and Drawn by Adam Warren and its just Dirty Pair but less outer space stuff
Exactly. Fire and Ice should be written like a sexy action manga. DC could easily make that work.
none of them
Jessica Cruz.
Title it as “Power Ring”
WW and maybe Powergirl if it was cheesecake enough.
Other than that? No
Even Batgirls aren’t selling anymore
>Even Batgirls aren’t selling anymore
They (and many other characters) aren't selling because DC keeps putting absolutely horrible creators on them. No character can sell a book that has both shit writing and shit art.
DC doesn't "put" horrible creators on them, I'm willing to bet that they're characters that no one wants to write about. Waid, Johns, King, Zdarsky, Morrison, even Bendis are never going to want to write Batgirls or characters in that tier.
It's either Batman, Superman, GL, WW, etc... tier for them or some random high concept elseworld event.
Now that Billy is Shazam, should Mary Marvel still be called by that name? She’d be the only Marvel in the former Marvel Family, but maybe that could be a good thing.
Although, frankly, I’d change Billy’s name to Captain Thunder. “Shazam” is a terrible super-hero name.
>Now that Billy is Shazam
He's just the Captain now.
>should Mary Marvel still be called by that name?
Yes because all the other alternatives suck.
Zatanna if she's mostly naked or wearing just the hat and stockings
DC should explore the more fetishy aspects of Zatanna.
Doesn't Catwoman literally have an ongoing right now?
Literally the longest running female led solo title DC has right now. It's on issue 60-something.
Harley, Poison Ivy, and Catwoman all have books.
yeah
it's also been complete garbage for 2 years since tini howard took over, with sub 100 rank sales.
Zatanna has a lot of potential for more niche stories that set her apart from the rest.
That’s true. You could do slice of life, sex comedy, romance, ect.
Give me a 7.5 yr long 90 issue run of Starfire and Blackfire sisterly love slice of life NOW
Speaking of Power Girl, is she still from the pre-Crisis Earth-2 or did they change that with Rebirth?
She's supposed to be the same Power Girl from Pre-Crisis Earth-Two. Leah even references her past sometimes (mainly just Superman and her symbioship), but also does the "alien doesn't understand Earth" trope (she's new to Earth and doesn't understand human customs and idioms and needs help understanding them). Not to mention the complete 180 her characterization took. She might as well be a different character altogether
>this fricking cutesy pre-teen tier YA writing
I hate women
>Write what you know
Leah doesn't know how actual people talk, so she just writes everybody like they're in a tumblr fanfic. They're not even characters, just tropes (quirky, alien, etc...)
Does DC have any Red Sonja equivalent in their canon (like how Claw the Unconquered is their Conan equivalent)?
Starfire's series was cute and sexy. Wouldn't mind another one, hopefully with Blackfire.
I want her to interact more with space stuff. L.E.G.I.O.N., Green Lantern Corps, Adam Strange, etc. Maybe have an arc where she's chasing Blackfire through galaxies and she keeps running into the cosmic cast.
I was surprised to learn her book didn’t flop with the rest of DCYou and instead was on par with Red Hood and Batman Beyond. And those only flopped when they announced rebirth.
Meanwhile she got put into Damian’s shit team while Jason got a relaunch (+ multiple failed relaunches after) and Beyond got to go to #50…
06/2015: Starfire #1 -- 50,928 [52,638]
07/2015: Starfire #2 -- 33,659 (- 34.7%) [34,389]
08/2015: Starfire #3 -- 30,207 (- 9.7%) [31,052]
09/2015: Starfire #4 -- 30,485 (- 0.4%) [30,930]
10/2015: Starfire #5 -- 28,714 (- 6.2%) [29,021]
11/2015: Starfire #6 -- 27,941 (- 3.7%)
12/2015: Starfire #7 -- 21,230 (- 23.9%)
01/2016: Starfire #8 -- 24,378 (+ 14.7%)
02/2016: Starfire #9 -- 22,918 (- 6.0%)
03/2016: Starfire #10 -- 18,044 (- 21.3%)
04/2016: Starfire #11 -- 20,131 (+ 11.6%)
05/2016: Starfire #12 -- 16,361 (- 18.7
06/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #1 -- 44,078
07/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #2 -- 26,829 (- 33.9%)
08/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #3 -- 23,841 (- 11.1%)
09/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #4 -- 22,113 (- 7.2%)
10/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #5 -- 21,025 (- 4.9%)
11/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #6 -- 19,857 (- 5.6%)
12/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #7 -- 25,789 (+ 29.9%)
01/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #8 -- 22,900 (- 11.2%)
02/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #9 -- 22,341 (- 2.4%)
03/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #10 -- 17,707 (- 20.7%)
04/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #11 -- 19,711 (+ 11.3%)
05/2015: Red Hood/Arsenal #12 -- 16,402
06/2015: Batman Beyond #1 -- 59,151
07/2015: Batman Beyond #2 -- 35,000 (- 34.4%) [35,238]
08/2015: Batman Beyond #3 -- 30,806 (- 12.0%) [31,276]
09/2015: Batman Beyond #4 -- 31,202 (+ 1.3%) [31,518]
10/2015: Batman Beyond #5 -- 29,409 (- 5.7%) [29,626]
11/2015: Batman Beyond #6 -- 27,778 (- 5.5%)
12/2015: Batman Beyond #7 -- 21,946 (- 21.0%)
01/2016: Batman Beyond #8 -- 20,342 (- 7.3%)
02/2016: Batman Beyond #9 -- 19,449 (- 4.4%)
03/2016: Batman Beyond #10 -- 21,578 (+ 10.9%)
04/2016: Batman Beyond #11 -- 18,061 (- 16.3%)
05/2016: Batman Beyond #12 -- 18,133
Supergirl
Zatanna
Harley Quinn
Poison Ivy
Catwoman
You know what was great?
"Black Canary and Oracle: Birds of Prey."
Great book, great dynamic. Totally got fricked over.
Black Orchid (either version)
Raven (see last entry)
Zatanna (it could work if the right writer used their imagination to make the book innovative, maybe bring back Grant Morrison like in the old Seven Soldiers days)
Superman’s girlfriend, Lois Lane (that was the old title of her first “solo”, right?)
>cheating on the no team rule
The Female Furies (I’m sure their book spiked in sales with that Granny Goodness/Darkseid rape retcon)
Some kind of wholesome anthology of all of the superheroes wives and girlfriends without any hint or mention of Identity Crisis
I feel like Raven solos don’t work out. They should catch some of the vibe with the cartoons and have her team up with Starfire in some kind of duo team
>They should catch some of the vibe with the cartoons and have her team up with Starfire in some kind of duo team
Now that's an idea I like.