For the art form, yeah. TWS is the peak but CW was really good. For the business, they peaked at EG and it has been diminishing return after diminishing return since.
These superhero movies are too highly rated.
The critic websites put Batman Begins above The Prestige, even though The Prestige is a far better film.
Same with something like Captain America, which has higher marks than Jumanji.
What's up with that?
movie ratings are always on a curve. When you ask "Hey is Wall-E a good movie", obviously it's not as impressive a movie as a Kurosawa movie, but you ant to know if it's good relative to something like Shrek or Toy Story
you know what? i have just realized something.
all movie gays are fricking obnoxious they take themselves way too seriously and are always looking like a scapegoat like the current b***hing about superhero movies. while the cringe oscarbait shit they tell you to slurp up is fricking shit and is only consumed because homosexuals with their heads shoved up their own ass's say you should.
They are objectivelly right that MCU and capeshit in general is trash though.
The fact Thanos is considered one of the best superhero movie villains ever even though he's just a basic vague "he's crazy" to justify a clearly dumbass plan that sounds like something a 5 year old would make already tell everything. Or how the day is saved with a literal Deus Ex Machina time machine plot device out of nowhere.
you see you are taking things too seriously like i stated before and giving reason to why i disregard movie gays opinions i watch things because i might find it fun to watch
The main characters of any story are always the heroes. Villains are good based on how they make the heroes react. Thanos is a great villain because he's an implacable force of nature that pushes beyond the heroes' limits and forces them to unfrick themselves in order to win.
You're a moron with a persecution complex. I compared a director's superhero movie with a non-superhero, non-Oscar-bait movie that is a better movie but got a lower critic score. I realize, like most people that watch a lot of movies probably do, that critics fall for Oscar bait trash but that's not what I'm talking about.
>I have created a death trap with the intention of blowing up the city and destroying it >no! My plan is foiled and now I’m the only person the death trap of my creation will kill! You have to save me now or you’re a murderer!
If Batman is that moronic, I don’t want to be a Batman fan. Luckily, only moronic fans and modern comic writers think like this.
>Luckily, only moronic fans and modern comic writers think like this.
It's autists and the mentally ill who think that cartoon comic book bullshit applies to the real world.
>story of a guy taken over by revenge choosing a life of poverty to understand why people choose crime, eventually learns to control his anger and chooses to do the right thing for those he loves >story of a rich superstar super genius learning where his money is comming from
Begins is a better movie but IM is more watchable.
IM is a collection of strong scenes that sort of starts to fall apart in the middle(writers strike, IIRC), the charisma of the actors and the cool FX work elevates it from being a pretty standard Marvel origin movie of the time >This is the hero, this is his origin, now he fights a villain tied to his personal life
The thing a lot of people forget is that there was a string of samey Marvel movies about hero origins. Iron Man managed to break out from that helped break out the early onset fatigue people were having with these movies. It and TDK also shifted these movies from ones mostly teenagers and kids liked and adults just tolerated and watched as light fare, to ones they'd actively follow and discuss.
Begins is admittedly playing to the same formula but is better at hiding it.
>The thing a lot of people forget is that there was a string of samey Marvel movies about hero origins. Iron Man managed to break out from that helped break out the early onset fatigue people were having with these movies.
this was never a thing. IM was carried by RDJ charisma alone. The entire MCU was carried by RDJ alone.
Revisiting Begins all these years later the biggest surprise is "Wow, Bale's bat-growl isn't all that bad. It literally got worse and worse with each movie."
Begins is interesting to me because it's so different really. Yeah it's "grounded" but it could work as an origin for a more fantastical Batman, too.
Ditching the elements like the Narrows ended up hurting it
Batman Begins is just kinda boring. Doesn't have the style of Burton Batman or the audacity of Schumacher Batman, he's just dull. The Dark Knight is the only good movie of the trilogy IMO, 90% because of Heath Ledger.
Iron Man has an off-the-cuff style to it I like, most of the dialogue was ad-libbed. Though it is shameless military-industrial complex propaganda.
>Iron Man has an off-the-cuff style to it I like
That's funnily enough what ended up making the movie very flawed, it relied too much on the protagonist charisma but the villain had no charisma at all plus being a bad character in general, it took the whole movie down.
Nolan's Batman movies are really about everything but Batman: >IMAX format/shots >Hans Zimmer Music >Big action set pieces >Villains >Batman is the least interesting part
Iron Man however set the precedence for the Marvel formula: >Main character and characterisation is important >Strong level of levity and humour >Still some emotional moments >So-so plots and villains
Batman movies made good standalone series with a few issues, especially in TDKR. Iron Man spoke to people more because people like soap opera drama/fun that is communicable. Marvel however forgot this formula because it keeps casting charisma vacuums, having overpowering humour etc whilst producing far too much shit when the 2 movies a year buy in was better than multiple movies + shows.
And yet Iron Man helped create the MCU and was a lynchpin of it. RDJ was paid what, close to $50 million bonus for Avengers?
Man of Steel was heavily inspired by Nolan's Batman films. Nolan was an Executive Producer, David S Goyer/Nolan wrote it, Hans Zimmer did the music. Heck, WB even tried to get Christian Bale back as Batman for the sequel to retroactively make Nolan's films the start of the DCEU. And yet the DCEU faltered at every turn.
It's really far fetched to try to tie Snyder project to TDK when ti's clearly a different new story with Snyder own style own it. Snyder already said it was his own thing not Nolan, the guy was just one of the many producers he was not a Feige counterpart.
Yes but as Snyder said several times, it was HIS vision alone not Nolan and Snyder vision, Snyder described how he made up almost every single scene where it was clearly him all the time, it was the "Snyderverse", Nolan was there to give him an approval on his choices alongside Deborah Snyder and after that other directors had to follow HIS demands, not Nolan.
Meanwhile Feige hold a tight leash on his directors and they are supposed to make a story that fit several of his plans. Absolutely no one see the MCU as anything but Feige.
>the guy was just one of the many producers he was not a Feige counterpart.
They originally wanted Nolan to be like Kevin Feige but he didn't want to do that but he still had far more involvement than you're making out. >Nolan had a story by credit and was executive producer >Goyer wrote it and he wrote for the Nolan Batman films >Hans Zimmer did the music for Batman films and Man of Steel.
Man of Steel is still tonally similar to a Nolan film, I am not saying it is exactly like one and neither am I saying that Zack Snyder had little input, of course it was his film but you're ignoring a bunch of what I am saying.
Because Man of Steel didn't do the numbers they wanted, in part because they were comparing it to Avengers numbers, they panicked, Man of Steel 2 and build up films were scrapped and replaced with BvS and Justice League coming sooner. Christian Bale was asked to return but declined. Asking Bale back is a clear indication they wanted to link those past successes to that film.
Man of Steel was an attempt to capitalise on the tone of the Nolan films and Nolan was heavily involved, and like I said, Goyer (who worked on Nolan Batman writing) and Hans Zimmer (who did the music) were there too. They wanted to differentiate it from the MCU and used the blueprint of Nolan.
Of course it was still Snyder film with his vision and tone. I feel like you're missing the point I was trying to make and think I am saying "it was a Nolan movie" when I am saying it was a Snyder film but the influence of Nolan and what WB wanted to capitalise on was there.
It is painfully obvious that Man of Steel was an attempt to Nolan-ise Superman in an effort to make a more adult superhero universe in comparison to Marvel. Only Zack is a director who gets little things wrong because he isn't a very good character/humanising director. So yes it was a Snyder project, hence why it was shit.
Spider-Man and X-Men used to be Marvel's big hitters, hence why they sold their movie rights off when the company faltered in the 90s. Iron Man and other characters were more the B or even C list sometimes. Turning one of those characters into a competitor with Batman, literally DC's A list and beloved character does say they did a lot more work even though the results are similar.
Begins has been drug down by the never-ending Batman flicks past it that feature the same goddamn plot; some crazy person in a coat wants to blow up Gotham to fix/snub his nose at Society.
Gone are the museum heists, kidnapping of the mayor, the boners....
This isn't even a >MCU is shit now who cares, or >Post Endgame who cares
I can sit down and watch Begins or TDK and be entertained. Or TDKR has meme appeal. But I can't really bother watching an Iron Man film. All the films with the improv style and who cares plots are just eh. The best Iron Man stuff is literally in Avengers movies anyway. MCU has gone the way of GoT and feels like it is culturally irrelevant because the rot set in. If I saw TDK on streaming or TV I'd probably give it a rewatch. I wouldn't bother with Iron Man.
Neither is a particular good film; both are definitely technically proficient but that's not a high bar when you are spending in the multiples of millions.
Iron Man. I really don't like Begins and think it is a terrible adaptation of Batman for multiple reasons, namely that it rushes Year One and the League of Shadows is ass as well. Ra's should have been saved for the last movie, but they couldn't help themselves so we get a moronic 'bomb the city with fear gas' plot that may as well have been from a DCAU nothingburger episode. The Dark Knight and Rises are the only two Nolan Batman films worth watching, and Rises only because of the memes.
Iron Man is better than Begins but not better than TDK. Iron Man is the measuring stick by which all capeshit should be measured but TDK transcended genre to actually be a good movie even if you changed the comic characters to normal guys with hidden identities.
Batman
Begins, by far.
the best one is your favorite one
I'm going to say Iron Man since it turned a B lister into a solid A list character
Hyodrogen Bomb vs Coughing Baby
Batman begins, iron mans kinda shitty looking back at it
Technically they peaked on Winter Soldier which is still not great considering how many things have come after and that they're still going.
For the art form, yeah. TWS is the peak but CW was really good. For the business, they peaked at EG and it has been diminishing return after diminishing return since.
>they peaked on Winter Soldier
Yeah, pretty much.
>iron mans kinda shitty looking back at it
It's literally the best looking one compared to what came after. It still looks like an actual movie.
batman
Back to Cinemaphile, capeslopeater.
Cinemaphile is a capeslop board. Go back to your preschooler cartoon thread.
Batman Begins is the best superhero movie.
Right is the MCU at their best which is sad in hindsight
These superhero movies are too highly rated.
The critic websites put Batman Begins above The Prestige, even though The Prestige is a far better film.
Same with something like Captain America, which has higher marks than Jumanji.
What's up with that?
movie ratings are always on a curve. When you ask "Hey is Wall-E a good movie", obviously it's not as impressive a movie as a Kurosawa movie, but you ant to know if it's good relative to something like Shrek or Toy Story
They're both kind of shitty, corny movies, but RDJ as Tony Stark is better than any actor in Begins.
Agreed. Bale was so much better in Prestige than as Batman.
you know what? i have just realized something.
all movie gays are fricking obnoxious they take themselves way too seriously and are always looking like a scapegoat like the current b***hing about superhero movies. while the cringe oscarbait shit they tell you to slurp up is fricking shit and is only consumed because homosexuals with their heads shoved up their own ass's say you should.
They are objectivelly right that MCU and capeshit in general is trash though.
The fact Thanos is considered one of the best superhero movie villains ever even though he's just a basic vague "he's crazy" to justify a clearly dumbass plan that sounds like something a 5 year old would make already tell everything. Or how the day is saved with a literal Deus Ex Machina time machine plot device out of nowhere.
maybe so but Oscar bait is still trash and not a good alternative
you see you are taking things too seriously like i stated before and giving reason to why i disregard movie gays opinions i watch things because i might find it fun to watch
The main characters of any story are always the heroes. Villains are good based on how they make the heroes react. Thanos is a great villain because he's an implacable force of nature that pushes beyond the heroes' limits and forces them to unfrick themselves in order to win.
You're a moron with a persecution complex. I compared a director's superhero movie with a non-superhero, non-Oscar-bait movie that is a better movie but got a lower critic score. I realize, like most people that watch a lot of movies probably do, that critics fall for Oscar bait trash but that's not what I'm talking about.
Begins was dogshit and didnt understand batman at all
Read more comics before the 90's, especially Mike Barr.
It did understand Batman.
>I don't have to save you.
>Therefore, you will die.
>Murder by circumstances.
K, keep me updated Bruce.
>I have created a death trap with the intention of blowing up the city and destroying it
>no! My plan is foiled and now I’m the only person the death trap of my creation will kill! You have to save me now or you’re a murderer!
If Batman is that moronic, I don’t want to be a Batman fan. Luckily, only moronic fans and modern comic writers think like this.
>Luckily, only moronic fans and modern comic writers think like this.
It's autists and the mentally ill who think that cartoon comic book bullshit applies to the real world.
>story of a guy taken over by revenge choosing a life of poverty to understand why people choose crime, eventually learns to control his anger and chooses to do the right thing for those he loves
>story of a rich superstar super genius learning where his money is comming from
Begins is a better movie but IM is more watchable.
IM is a collection of strong scenes that sort of starts to fall apart in the middle(writers strike, IIRC), the charisma of the actors and the cool FX work elevates it from being a pretty standard Marvel origin movie of the time
>This is the hero, this is his origin, now he fights a villain tied to his personal life
The thing a lot of people forget is that there was a string of samey Marvel movies about hero origins. Iron Man managed to break out from that helped break out the early onset fatigue people were having with these movies. It and TDK also shifted these movies from ones mostly teenagers and kids liked and adults just tolerated and watched as light fare, to ones they'd actively follow and discuss.
Begins is admittedly playing to the same formula but is better at hiding it.
>The thing a lot of people forget is that there was a string of samey Marvel movies about hero origins. Iron Man managed to break out from that helped break out the early onset fatigue people were having with these movies.
this was never a thing. IM was carried by RDJ charisma alone. The entire MCU was carried by RDJ alone.
begins but only for scarecrow
Revisiting Begins all these years later the biggest surprise is "Wow, Bale's bat-growl isn't all that bad. It literally got worse and worse with each movie."
Begins is interesting to me because it's so different really. Yeah it's "grounded" but it could work as an origin for a more fantastical Batman, too.
Ditching the elements like the Narrows ended up hurting it
>Ditching the elements like the Narrows ended up hurting it
I agree. gotham's aesthetic really died in the TDK and TDKR
Iron Man and it's not even close.
Batman Begins is just kinda boring. Doesn't have the style of Burton Batman or the audacity of Schumacher Batman, he's just dull. The Dark Knight is the only good movie of the trilogy IMO, 90% because of Heath Ledger.
Iron Man has an off-the-cuff style to it I like, most of the dialogue was ad-libbed. Though it is shameless military-industrial complex propaganda.
>Iron Man has an off-the-cuff style to it I like
That's funnily enough what ended up making the movie very flawed, it relied too much on the protagonist charisma but the villain had no charisma at all plus being a bad character in general, it took the whole movie down.
Iron Man main villain is having terrible villains
no villains, no b***hes, only booze
Ironman created an empire. Batman and superman destroyed theirs
>superman
Rent free.
Nolan's Batman movies are really about everything but Batman:
>IMAX format/shots
>Hans Zimmer Music
>Big action set pieces
>Villains
>Batman is the least interesting part
Iron Man however set the precedence for the Marvel formula:
>Main character and characterisation is important
>Strong level of levity and humour
>Still some emotional moments
>So-so plots and villains
Batman movies made good standalone series with a few issues, especially in TDKR. Iron Man spoke to people more because people like soap opera drama/fun that is communicable. Marvel however forgot this formula because it keeps casting charisma vacuums, having overpowering humour etc whilst producing far too much shit when the 2 movies a year buy in was better than multiple movies + shows.
>Iron Man spoke to people more
both trilogies had nearly identical box offices
And yet Iron Man helped create the MCU and was a lynchpin of it. RDJ was paid what, close to $50 million bonus for Avengers?
Man of Steel was heavily inspired by Nolan's Batman films. Nolan was an Executive Producer, David S Goyer/Nolan wrote it, Hans Zimmer did the music. Heck, WB even tried to get Christian Bale back as Batman for the sequel to retroactively make Nolan's films the start of the DCEU. And yet the DCEU faltered at every turn.
It's really far fetched to try to tie Snyder project to TDK when ti's clearly a different new story with Snyder own style own it. Snyder already said it was his own thing not Nolan, the guy was just one of the many producers he was not a Feige counterpart.
Nolan was the guy who recommended him after watching his Watchman adaptation...
Yes but as Snyder said several times, it was HIS vision alone not Nolan and Snyder vision, Snyder described how he made up almost every single scene where it was clearly him all the time, it was the "Snyderverse", Nolan was there to give him an approval on his choices alongside Deborah Snyder and after that other directors had to follow HIS demands, not Nolan.
Meanwhile Feige hold a tight leash on his directors and they are supposed to make a story that fit several of his plans. Absolutely no one see the MCU as anything but Feige.
>the guy was just one of the many producers he was not a Feige counterpart.
They originally wanted Nolan to be like Kevin Feige but he didn't want to do that but he still had far more involvement than you're making out.
>Nolan had a story by credit and was executive producer
>Goyer wrote it and he wrote for the Nolan Batman films
>Hans Zimmer did the music for Batman films and Man of Steel.
Man of Steel is still tonally similar to a Nolan film, I am not saying it is exactly like one and neither am I saying that Zack Snyder had little input, of course it was his film but you're ignoring a bunch of what I am saying.
Because Man of Steel didn't do the numbers they wanted, in part because they were comparing it to Avengers numbers, they panicked, Man of Steel 2 and build up films were scrapped and replaced with BvS and Justice League coming sooner. Christian Bale was asked to return but declined. Asking Bale back is a clear indication they wanted to link those past successes to that film.
Man of Steel was an attempt to capitalise on the tone of the Nolan films and Nolan was heavily involved, and like I said, Goyer (who worked on Nolan Batman writing) and Hans Zimmer (who did the music) were there too. They wanted to differentiate it from the MCU and used the blueprint of Nolan.
Of course it was still Snyder film with his vision and tone. I feel like you're missing the point I was trying to make and think I am saying "it was a Nolan movie" when I am saying it was a Snyder film but the influence of Nolan and what WB wanted to capitalise on was there.
It is painfully obvious that Man of Steel was an attempt to Nolan-ise Superman in an effort to make a more adult superhero universe in comparison to Marvel. Only Zack is a director who gets little things wrong because he isn't a very good character/humanising director. So yes it was a Snyder project, hence why it was shit.
Spider-Man and X-Men used to be Marvel's big hitters, hence why they sold their movie rights off when the company faltered in the 90s. Iron Man and other characters were more the B or even C list sometimes. Turning one of those characters into a competitor with Batman, literally DC's A list and beloved character does say they did a lot more work even though the results are similar.
That's an indictment on the Nolan movies given where both characters were in the mass audience zeitgeist prior to those respective movies.
Batman Begins is all about Batman. It even takes pains to get into the different parts of the costume and gadgets.
That wasn't the point I was making. I said Batman was the least interesting part.
And you're saying most of the movie is the least interesting part.
I love Batman Begins but Iron Man is the better movie. I'll go as far as to say Iron Man was better than The Dark Knight.
>Batman is an option
It's Batman.
Iron Man is way better.
Begins has been drug down by the never-ending Batman flicks past it that feature the same goddamn plot; some crazy person in a coat wants to blow up Gotham to fix/snub his nose at Society.
Gone are the museum heists, kidnapping of the mayor, the boners....
Holy shit youre right
it's like Superman and every other movie having to do with terraforming
yeah that really started to get tiring
Iorn Man
Begins is terrible honestly
The one I had a speaking role in
Well dont keep us in suspense. What movie were you in and what was your speaking role?
This isn't even a
>MCU is shit now who cares, or
>Post Endgame who cares
I can sit down and watch Begins or TDK and be entertained. Or TDKR has meme appeal. But I can't really bother watching an Iron Man film. All the films with the improv style and who cares plots are just eh. The best Iron Man stuff is literally in Avengers movies anyway. MCU has gone the way of GoT and feels like it is culturally irrelevant because the rot set in. If I saw TDK on streaming or TV I'd probably give it a rewatch. I wouldn't bother with Iron Man.
Neither is a particular good film; both are definitely technically proficient but that's not a high bar when you are spending in the multiples of millions.
Iron Man. I really don't like Begins and think it is a terrible adaptation of Batman for multiple reasons, namely that it rushes Year One and the League of Shadows is ass as well. Ra's should have been saved for the last movie, but they couldn't help themselves so we get a moronic 'bomb the city with fear gas' plot that may as well have been from a DCAU nothingburger episode. The Dark Knight and Rises are the only two Nolan Batman films worth watching, and Rises only because of the memes.
>Rises
>worth watching
Opinion discarded.
>only because of the memes
Read homie, read.
I did read. That's a dogshit reason.
Batman is best film than any other Marvel movie.
Iron Man is better than Begins but not better than TDK. Iron Man is the measuring stick by which all capeshit should be measured but TDK transcended genre to actually be a good movie even if you changed the comic characters to normal guys with hidden identities.
Comparing Iron Man to Batman Begins is like comparing The Marvels to Iron Man.
Ouch.
Iron Bat
Iron Man all the way. The Dark Knight was better than Begins.