Who's should be Red hood wife ?

Yeah, I really didn't understand the dynamics behind having Tim come out, it literally strikes me as an editorial decision where they put names into a hat and drew one out. There were a few people online using the same justifications they used for Iceman - he's had lots of relationships with women that never went anywhere, he's always felt like the one guy who never really belonged in a group of outsiders, etc. Which, okay, if we're using that logic, why not Dick? Dick's notorious for being one of the biggest manprostitutes in the entire DCU, all of his relationships outside of Babs and Starfire have been post-combat hookups at best. Tim's been more defined by the fact that he's had two long-term girlfriends, Ariana and then Steph. I'm not saying he can't have a sudden realisation that maybe he likes girls AND boys, that happens, but it's the kind of thing you build up to, maybe over a couple of years, not just go 'oh hey, I'm dating this guy now, dwi'.

...

>Your ex had a kid? That means she's a MILF, dude, can we have a threeway?

>Thigh highs
>Miniskirt

HNNNNGG!!!!

Reminder that this tennis playing chad is about to serve her some love in a few weeks. And I'm sure he won't have to court her long before he gets to smash.

>Chad

Anon you seem to forget she submits to pic related.

Redpill me on Bette, for all I know she only became a hero because she wanted to frick Dick, which if true, explains why she gets dismissed by others so much.

Huh, well, I guess that's a good enough motivation, I wonder if we'll ever see her again.

Bette had a lot of regular appearances in Batwoman.

>Wings
>Antenna
>Tigers?!

Can it be that Moth Wars is finally upon us?

>wanting the Batgirls writers anywhere near Killer Moth
After how badly they handled their own villains I can't imagine how they'd screw up an existing one.

>She's rumored in an interview to be appearing in the Batgirls book. Which will be first time re-appearing since Detective Comics back in 2016.

Thats something to look foreward too. Hopefully they get her out of that glorified military school and back into action as flamebird and treat her better than batwoman did.

Wait he’ll appear out of Gotham Academy? I don’t believe it

So is Maps Robin still on the table?

So is Maps Robin still on the table?

Maps in her Robin costume will probably pop up occasionally like in that short story a few months back. Not sure if it'll happen in Batgirls, but Maps is on the cover of the issue they solicited.

is this out?

Why is Stephanie written like that? No woman would be happy to meet the person her ex is dating right now

>We've been dating three months and you're already bored with me?
>Dude, I didn't say that! I asked how you'd feel about a threesome.
>Insulted.
>Don't be that guy, Tim. I'm not asking to frick another man, I'm asking if we - you and me together - could double team this chick I met last week. She's divorced, DTF, forty, and a fujo.
>...what the frick is a fujo?

I'm interested in the Jason/Steph pairing lately myself.

Seriously, Tim and Steph was a thing basically from day one. Same with Steph and Cass, which was even joked about in Cass' solo Batgirl book (probably more as a reaction to the fans than anything). Tim and Cass was never really a thing though, he respects the hell out of her, but typically, he finds her too intimidating to interact with her in anything other than a professional capacity, and she doesn't really pal around with the past-and-present Robins like he does.

>Same with Steph and Cass, which was even joked about in Cass' solo Batgirl book (probably more as a reaction to the fans than anything)

I'm curious if you have any specific examples you feel were teasing, I read a sapphic angle in that book too. It was the early 2000s and lesbian teasing was huge after all. That panel where Steph says she won't be coming around as much anymore and Cass is alone in the training room looking sad is probably the most notable.

Tim and Cass were good friends that people read into because there are no platonic relationships in comics.

though that one page of the last Batman mini before flashpoint reset, they did draw Cass giving Tim the look.

> Cass/Steph

Cass/Tim dammit.

But even then Tim basically says that Steph is cool but he's a wholesome Christian boy who's not going to cheat on his girlfriend. You'd have to be blind to not see what Dixon was leading up to.

>I'm curious if you have any specific examples you feel were teasing
Honestly, I'd need to go back and read the whole thing, and probably a good chunk of Tim's solo book as well, since there was a lot of crossover at the time. It's been a long time since I've read it and the Cass Batgirl trades stopped at around volume 3 or so and are all but out of print. As you say, it was early-2000s, so a lot of it had to be subtle to the point of plausible deniability. That led to a lot of scenes of the two sharing looks that you could read as barely-repressed homolust or just... they're looking at each other, what of it? I recall a few characters in various Bat-books at the time saying they always looked like they were 'joined at the hip' or 'spending a lot of time together training', which has always been a wink-wink nudge-nudge thing and I vaguely remember a villain calling them a 'cute couple' while fighting, but I might be making that up. But, as you probably would agree, it's one of those things where if you see it, it's pretty obvious, but if you don't, it's just gals being pals and that's fine too.

>I'd need to go back and read the whole thing
You really should because none of those things happened.

Makes sense he was the one to go gay then

>and the final thirty seconds I'm not thinking about the wiener

We get it, you're an argumentative contrarian who can't read, no one cares.

Why would Tim want Steph when he's happy with his boyfriend?

Nah Dick/Kory and Tim/Steph are solid enough for longterm. Jason/Artemis is the more wobbly one because Jason is too attached to the streets. And Babs and Ted admitted they were mainly friends so I won't hold it against the ship.

I can see Cass/Connor working if they used his older personality. It'd be a little like Wally West and Linda Park if they were both superheroes.

I'm talking purely about in terms of art. She looked a lot younger and smaller in her solo and that tended to feed into other books she appeared in.

I'm talking purely about in terms of art. She looked a lot younger and smaller in her solo and that tended to feed into other books she appeared in.

No Man's Land, I would've said 18, but in her solo book and most of her appearences thereafter, I would've said 15/16. It probably has a lot to do with the fact I think she's meant to be about 5'4, and painfully slender. I wouldn't be surprised to find out Damian was taller and heavier than her.

Didn't Bruce talk a few times about enrolling her in school? I vaguely remember him eventually deciding against it, primarily because all she wanted to do was fight and had no time for social niceties like 'tidying her room' or talking'

Bruce and Babs were honestly terrible parental figures, none of them made sure she could read.

>and Bruce was content with having Cass do what she liked
Unless it involves a certain boy.

Yet Alfred succeeded off panel and page along with a retcon.

Babs tried, but Cass didn't want to do her homework and Babs lost her patience at a critical moment.

#
>Cass
>bottom

I don't see any implications of Cass being a bottom or submissive. I see her as a woman who kabedons her bf every day of the week.

I've never seen anyone ship Cass and Jason. They have no sexual or romantic chemistry. Idk what their dynamic should be. Maybe Cass should bully Jason as his smug older sister.

Pre n52, Cass is older than Jason by a couple of months. Then again, in B&R Eternal, Cass is made to be basically the second orphan Batman takes under his wing after Dick.

I always thought babs was younger than Dick

Steph is slightly older than Tim by a few months to a year or so.
Jason should also be closer to Tim's age than Dick, but because Jason is like 6'2'' people forget that.

It's because a few months ago was the very first interaction Cass/Jason had since Batman & Robin Eternal.

We had so much Jason/Cass outside the main universe. DCeased and DC vs. Vampires. The latter was weird seeing Jason self sacrifice himself after saving Cass from Dick.

Jason sacrificed himself in a futile last charge to save Damian, not Cass. But he did get Cass to safety first.

Vampire King fans were big mad about the Vampire King vs Jason fight. But if you ask me, the powerscaling was fine, since VK was explicitly trying to take Jason prisoner whereas Jason was going for the kill.

Nightwing is looking for vampire bride in this comic

Supergirl and Barbara are still fighting against Nightwing and whole Justice League is with Nightwing

Also there is Green Arrow, but he killed Hal and Nightwing is still mad about that

Cass wouldn't necessarily stay a bottom, but she has a harder time reaching out to people and even smaller gestures tend to be a big deal for her. Calling her a bottom is too general really, but she is more of an introvert and having trouble expressing herself is a big part of her character
a few people even headcanon Cass as a sexual sadist given her want to suffer and her fascination in being beaten or taken down
Pretty much every Steph/Cass fic about them hooking up has a set up like: Cass has some interest in sex/steph and asks Steph to help teach her, with Steph reluctantly taking charge. Steph takes the lead in most Steph/Tim fics, too(and when they kissed in comics, for that matter.)

Yes. Yes it is.

I mean, her dad used to beat her unconscious and shoot her - not shoot *at* her, actually *shoot her* - on a near daily basis. She kept a knife that he stabbed her with as a keepsake the way you or I would keep a t-shirt or a toy given to you by a loved one. Never mind dating her, fricking TRAINING with her must be a minefield!

>vanilla pairings all around this thread
Let’s go for the forbidden fruit: Cass acting on her feelings for Batman that go beyond being a father figure, Steph noticing Damian spends a lot of time without his shirt on, Jean Paul Valley getting tutored by Babs on his computer programming degree, Jason and Huntress getting their freak on by torturing criminals. And of course, Aunt Harriet and Alfred’s corpse

There are exactly two ways Jason beats Cass:

1) submissive energy, entering relationships exclusively with people who hurt him

2) related to point 1--intense incestuous love for his father

Cass wouldn't necessarily stay a bottom, but she has a harder time reaching out to people and even smaller gestures tend to be a big deal for her. Calling her a bottom is too general really, but she is more of an introvert and having trouble expressing herself is a big part of her character
a few people even headcanon Cass as a sexual sadist given her want to suffer and her fascination in being beaten or taken down
Pretty much every Steph/Cass fic about them hooking up has a set up like: Cass has some interest in sex/steph and asks Steph to help teach her, with Steph reluctantly taking charge. Steph takes the lead in most Steph/Tim fics, too(and when they kissed in comics, for that matter.)

>sexual sadist given her want to suffer and her fascination in being beaten or taken down
I think that's "masochist", not sadist.

OK admittedly most Dickfans were too busy swooning over hot vampire Nightwing. As they should.

But lately lots of hardcore Dickfans seem pretty dissatisfied with Nightwing being fluff instead of badass. So Red Hood puts up a good fight in DC vs Vampires and TFZ, and many Dickfans get really worked up, even though Red Hood lost both fights and Dick walked away unscathed.

Dick is doing really well. Good sales, good pretty boy art, all other characters kissing the ground he walks on. You really have to be spoiled to complain when he's getting the best royal treatment other than the Trinity and Harley.

>mature
Probably mature as in "30s adult woman, confident sexy librarian, not a wide-eyed undergrad girl like Steph", not so much as in "prim and bland".

I don't know, I like when Dick has a good supporting cast. Aside from Grayson, the last comic I read with him as the protag was when he was in the red suit at the beginning of New 52, and he was essentially solo. Probably one of the most boring fricking books I've ever read from DC. He was "badass", I guess, but goddamn was it uninteresting.

Dick actually isn’t doing too well. His sales are the same as always and to be fair, they are worse than his rebirth era. A lot of Nightwing fans are loud. But Nightwing is still in the spot he has always been in.

When will Tom Taylor leave NW?

But nothing is happening. What's there to adapt?

The status quo, the general writing style, the look of the characters. Batgirl of Burnside hasn't been directly adapted either, but it still defines Babs look in a lot of post 2016 adaptations
These books exist so you can hand them to show runners and let them have an idea of what the character is like. they want shiny modern books with new art and modern writing

Who is doing better than Dick right now?? Sure, he's not doing anything groundbreaking, but starring in an Eisner comic with great art and decent sales is far from "isn't doing too well".

t. Batgirls fan

Wally is the goat and it's unfair to compare others to him. He's the gold standard for capes and what their fans want. Even shitty writers and editors couldn't hold him down

>Especially coming off the Ric stuff.

This is entirely why Taylor is getting so much attention. Grayson was a fine book, but it was always a temp thing. The Rebirth book seemed like a fine ongoing but it got derailed by the ric stuff. In general Nightwing spend the last 10+ years being unable to have a basic book without getting derailed, mainly because Didio thought he needed something to keep him relevant. And even before new 52, his only decent run int the 2000's was what, the Tomasi stuff and arguably Grayson before she went nuts?

It was mostly Didio's fault. He was at DC for almost 20 years.

>if nightwing was free from bat editorial

He wouldn't get a solo book because he'd be used to put over the Titans or what ever other group of losers they need to push.

Given how Titans wasnt selling that well, and that Nightwing got a big push in external bat media, he could have faded more into the background.

Like the titans characters did.

Imagine thinking Nightwing married to 90's Starfire would've been healthy for the character compared tot he prodigal son returning to Gotham at the end of Knightfall.

Or he could you know still being his solos since he´s popular, I am not advocating for him being in the titans, the league or whatever I am talking about him having his own adventures ocasionally I know that this it´s a pipedream but damn I want him to thrive like Wally.

What editorial would've give him a solo? His titans mini was cancelled because the Titans weren't selling. They were never going to be able to give him a solo series. They still don't really do anything but minis besides the ongoing series. And the temptation to use a batcharacter to push the main series is too present.

Titans as a comic was popular in the 80s, but in 1991 that was long over. It was two years before the wedding when it was cancelled.

> don’t see Dick ever becoming popular in the mainstream being associated with Batfam.

Games and animation are more relevant than 40 year old comics and guess what? Except for the Titans cartoon in a single episode 17 years ago, they push Nightwing as a member of the batfamily.

>Nightwing isnt popular in the mainstream but he has a steady comic book fanbase. I don’t see Dick ever becoming popular in the mainstream being associated with Batfam.

They are trying but this it´s the main problem with nightwing not enough exposure specially compared to his robin identity who sometimes it´s a amalgation of others robins identities you mentioned no mans land and I am curious why his popularity started to decrease with this event? but yeah nightwing have his up and downs wether it´s in the bat titles or the titans title nobody knows what to do with him

Oh yes I mentioned it in this thread but yeah it´s funny like a character whose arc was about leaving his mentor shadow it´s treated like this I wish nightwing could have his own adventures with ocasional cameos of the titans or bat members if they want but him doing his own thing like it should be. Nightwing it´s being treated just like before marv take it to the titans, nobody knows what to do with him because the bat family it´s big and batman will be always the focus.

It's not a surprise the Flash name is more popular than the Nightwing name.

The thing about Wally is that he took over the Flash brand completely, he was THE face of the Flash series for everyone, Dick can't really do that, at least not to the extent that Wally did.
Batman will always be Bruce Wayne, that's just how it is.

Wally in general is an outlier for capes as a whole. A sidekick that actually grows into a bigger role AND gets a happy family. That shit just doesn't really happen often

Wally's family was/is fine. He met Linda, she was down for the cause, and they had a pair of super babies. The villains are still there, they still have problems like everything else, and there are new problems like raising super kids who while are mostly good in nature are still brats with powers. I never understood why it was so wrong for heroes to have some kind of stable rock to lean on. Barely anything changes except for there being better moments of catharsis after the end of an ordeal which I think capes are largely missing

Barry coming back is just one of the bigger problems with capes and you could argue it circles back around to a lot of what's wrong with Dick.

The marriage was mostly fine, but I think the real problem was with the kids, specially since Wally is supposed to be from the sidekick generation, having kids can age a character like you wouldn't believe, and even though they were treating Wally like he was from Batman's gen at that point, Barry coming back fricked everything.

age and the passage of time comes with the territory of trying to tell these interconnecting stories that each try to advance and are supposed to be somewhat serious narratively. I'd argue not fully committing to it has caused more problems than just letting it develop. It's even worse when you think about how they keep adding more and more characters while not letting others move on to their next stage, retire, or stay dead

Elseworlds and alternate universes exist for this very reason if you want to trot out stories for older heroes

>Elseworlds and alternate universes exist for this very reason if you want to trot out stories for older heroes
I'd argue it's the other way around, due to the eternal nature of comics, there's a status quo that must be maintained, so characters are expected to not change or age too much out of their respective roles,

With comics in the big 2 we have problems thanks to the company because:

-The writers used to be fans and they don´t like the new status so they reverted it , resurrect the character or even worse destroy it. Dc it´s the prime example of this with things like barry being resurrected , kyle being pushed aside for hal and legions 5YL destroying the new cast because old good and new bad.

-The company it´s worried about the accesibility so they reboot , destroy or pretends that didn´t happened and the new 52 was a good example of this (along with their good and bad comics in this era) so you have things like nightwing being a adult and batman being someone in their 30 and people wondering why he didn´t age or retire and because of this they keep the ages vague enough but people suspension of belief is limited and we have people asking: why that dude it´s married and with kids compared to the main character , should be a old geezer! the solution it´s obviously a elseworlds/alternate universes but like everything in the comics it´s a gamble it´s pretty sad in perspective because while I can understand the thing about wanting new fans the companies throw under the bus the older fans who are buying the comics/trade/omnis because they grew along the franchise but well

You mentioned the problem with Peter with MJ but being married also have their own problems for B-characters rogue and gambit it´s a good example of this, they did the journey that you mentioned and earned their happy end but since the krakoa era not only they are separated but the marriage it´s mentioned very rarely . I am not gonna be surprised if someone reading this comics and no mr and mrs X know about them being married because sometimes the writers don´t care so you have that problem along the usual soup opera shit

yes he was lightning in a bottle I want the same for nightwing ! but I know that this it´s impossible since things must be always vague in cape comics.

I'd argue that getting a happy family was a bad thing for him, especially because DC ended up bringing Barry back.

Wally problem was more about fans being writers and wanting things like they used to be, that wasn´t malicious initially but later on... just like the legion of superheroes they tried everything to bury this.Thankfully they didn´t suceed compared to the legion but man.

Nightwing never won an Eisner and was only nominated and got destroyed by way better candidates. And the comic creators were sore losers about it on Twitter.His last issue almost dropped out the top 50. The art is mediocre and there is no plot. The comic creator has a poor reputation and many don’t like him. Nightwing is being portrayed as himbo who can get shit done on his own. I don’t think Nightwing is doing good. In fact, if Nightwing wasn’t a Batman title, he would’ve been cancelled a long time ago. Like green arrow or aqua man both of whom have a similar fanbase and pulled similar numbers to Nightwing. Nightiwng is “thriving” in the most embarrassing and depressing time period for DC Comics. Nothing happening right now is receiving a positive reaction.