who's the best UC protag, and why is it Judau?
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who's the best UC protag, and why is it Judau?
who's the best UC protag, and why is it Judau?
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>strong
>focused
>empathic
>street smart
>pussy magnet but doesn't care about thots in the slightest
>friendly
>family oriented
>helps kamille with his rehabilitation
>not afraid to punch bad adults
>sex symbol
>loyal
It's hard not to pick Judau.
The answer to OPs question was Amuro, thread over
Amuro is a little b***h of a protag until CCA.
moron
no u
If Judau and Haman got married would they have a stupid state wedding on Axis with a commemorative tea set and shit?
Judau is a shit pilot carried by ZZ and his newtype power
couldn't that argument be applied to like...most of the UC protags?
>Amuro was a shit pilot carried by RX-78-2 and his newtype power
>Kamille was a shit pilot carried by the Mark-2, then the Zeta and his newtype power
Problem is, the ZZ outspecs nearly everything in its own time. Meanwhile the Gundam and the Zeta only temporarily had the upper hand but both OYW Zeon and especially the Titans develop a ton of MS's that can go toe to toe with them. Meanwhile Judau just gets carried entirely by the ZZ's ridiculous specs on most fights against things like Zaku 3's or fricking gazas, or the Bawoo. His toughest foes were the Qubeley and the psycho Gundam and both of those fights he only won through either Newtype hax or asspulls like Haman kys or Puru helping him.
the RX-78 outclassed everything until the Rick Doms.
It didn't outclass the Big Zam, the Zeong or the Gelgoog.
the big zam had size and that was about it. It was also not a mobile suit.
The Zeong came AFTER the Rick Dom
The Gelgoog was also AFTER the Rick Dom.
Yeah that's what my post implied, you were agreeing with me you mouth breathing moron. Amuro only has the upper hand spec wise with the RX 78 2 only halfway through 0079, meanwhile Judau has it 99% of the time in ZZ.
Kamille doesn't even get the zeta until like episode 30, when he only is able to MATCH the Titans MSes.
The RX-78-2 is so fricking OP that he basically walks through the first half of 0079, even against aces like Ramba Ral and Char. I'll grant he legitimately improved, but...amuro was carried hard by the gundam and by being a newtype.
Nah he was a good pilot. He got on it and on the fly learned how to own a Zaku, and that's bullshit that it grants him instant wins against aces when he's obviously struggling against Char and then Ramba, and M'Quve despite the advantages. All his wins against the aforementioned characters are thanks to his skill and his understanding of piloting. Amuro's newtype powers were also nothing fancy, while Kamille can straight up power himself up through the spirits of dead people to form a fricking I-field around him.
>Kamille doesn't even get the Zeta until like episode 30
He gets the Mk II, which was already able to match titans mobile suits, morono.
>mk-II matches the titans mobile suits
the Mk-II completely outclasses the Titans' MSes, until they get their second wave of suits ~episode 20, which shit on him and he barely scrapes through.
Do you remember how Amuro's first fight against Char goes? Or his second? The zaku can't do fricking SHIT against the gundam, so even though Char clowns on him, he can't actually win, and eventually gets his shit kicked in.
Ramba Ral had the Gouf's electro-whip the first time they fought to surprise him. On the rematch, Amuro adapted. The RX-78-2 still fricking clowned on the Gouf's specs.
I'm going to ignore M'quve, since as I've already said, Amuro improves, and by the end of 0079 he's getting carried by his newtype powers. M'quve is one of my favourite fights, but it comes well after his newtype awakening.
>I'm going to ignore M'quve
And the Zeong
And Dozle
And the Black Tri Stars
And the Gelgoog
And the Doms
right. Because my original point was 'The RX-78-02 outclassed everyone until the rick doms, when Amuro also started relying on being an OP newtype'
and literally ALL of those(except dozle who was not piloting a MS) came after the rick dom, which therefore are irrelevant to my original argument.
I mean shit, the black tri-stars were PILOTING rick doms.
That literally doesn't matter, even if Amuro outspecs shit at the beginning of the OYW he still has to adapt to most situations and he still gets in perilous ones, you literally just admitted that both Char in a Zaku and Ramba in the Gouf using the whip put him in tight spots were he had to retreat. You're also genuinely overestimating the spec range of the Gundam, the biggest advantage it has is the luna titanium armor which prevents him from getting shot by the 120mm Zaku MGs, that's literally it, he can still be cut by Heat hawks and he can still take damage on top of having to be constantly counting his shots because the Beam Rifle could only hold 12 before it became useless. Meanwhile both the Zeta and the ZZ had ridiculous specs right out the box, especially the ZZ with a literal particle canon in its head and massive beam sabers, or the Zeta's flight module and the bio computer that allows the pilot to tap in with fricking spirits to power up.
>where he had to retreat
I said CHAR had to retreat because the RX-78 outclassed the zaku so badly.
Amuro still retreated to Char and his goons in their first encounters, and once Char gets out of his Zaku II he is on par with him anyway, you're seriously overestimating Amuro's advantages, they are nowhere near as much of a crutch as Kamille and Judau's were.
honestly, if we're talking MS crutches, I'd go Judau>Amuro>>>>
If we're talking newtype crutches, I'd go Amuro>Kamille>Judau.
This is all just talking original series. By CCA, I'll absolutely acknowledge Amuro is a fantastic pilot.
Judau has THE biggest Newtype crutches, Amuro's are nothing special outside of enhancing his reaction and sensory abilities, I guess at the time they were a big deal but both Judau and Kamille get Newtype powerups which should put them above Amuro instantly. Remember how Kamille has to beat an ace like Yazan? Or how Judau has to beat Haman? They both need to tap in to the dead people to get help, Amuro just relies on his raw strength most of the time, even if he's enhanced by his Newtypeness.
by eos amuro is seeing the future and adapting.
I'm saying overall, not just 'the final fights'. Kamille is a newtype, but so is like half the cast. Sure, by the end of zeta, he's having fricking stand battles with Scirocco and Haman, but for most of the series, he's not really relying on newtype flashes like amuro does in the last third of 0079
Judau...I'll be honest, I'm not fully done ZZ, so I can't entirely speak on, but I'm 24 episodes in and he's also not relying on newtype flashes. I think he's sensed other newtypes and known an impending attack was coming, and held off the Qubeley?
Kamille relies on Newtype flashes a lot, and Judau uses his stand once and it scares the shit out of Haman. Also Newtype flashes aren't even that OP, and by Zeta Amuro takes out aces like the Asshimar pilot without relying on stands or flashes, and fights in the Dijeh which was a worse machine than the Zeta. So it's not 'by CCA' by Zeta Amuro was already a seasoned ace. And not only does Kamille have flashes, he has spirits helping him and guiding him and ultimately has his own stand that powers his MS up, Amuro never had that.
>if we're talking MS crutches, I'd go Judau>Amuro>>>>
Kamille had Char watching his back for most of the series to make sure his autistic ass wasn't making stupid mistakes, and if he did, he'd be nearby to help, I'd say that's a crutch about as big as the MS advantage that Amuro and Judau had throughout their series. Kamille had his ass pulled out of the fire a lot by his teammates, with Judau pulling second, and Amuro third.
>If we're talking newtype crutches, I'd go Amuro>Kamille>Judau.
Amuro's the weakest newtype out of those three. It's not because he's a weak newtype, that's someone like Char or Revil, he's just not as strong as the other two protags, but he had a far better grasp of combat and adapting to changing factors than either of them to compensate. He was already shown to be borderline neurotic about understanding the enemy's tactics and machines by the time he got to Luna II, and constantly adapting his own tactics and machine to deal with them. Judau was carried massively by both the power of the ZZ and the general idiocy and lacking skill of Neo Zeon's forces. His antics would have gotten him murdered if he tried doing what he did in Amuro or Kamille's shoes in their respective wars and machines.
god, what I wouldn't give to see judau vs a full powered yazan who's not been fully flanderized.
The Mark II seemed to fight on par with the Marasai or Galbaldy Beta, it didn't outclass or outperform them. When Kamille defeats Lila, it's not even because Kamille's a better pilot or had a newtype moment, nor was the Mark II overpowering the Galbaldy. Lila has her beam saber out but Kamille is just out of her saber's reach and then Kamille shoots her, just a matter of opportunity. It's just how the situation plays out.
>Start of 0079
>Amuro is an unskilled pilot in a great mobile suits
>He fights competent pilots in outdated mobile suits
>This goes along until the Black Tri-Stars and their mobile suits are about equal to his
>This marks the turning point where now Amuro's mobile suit and skill is about equal to his enemies.
>Throughout the rest of the show, Zeon's technology starts to surpass the Feds but all their aces are dying out, with most of their great ones being already dead.
>End of 0079
>Amuro is a competent pilot in an outdated mobile suit
>He fights unskilled pilots in great mobile suits.
Was it really that hard of a concept?
>angry Gundam noises
The RX-78-2 was still a serious contender by the end of the war and far from outdated, being immune to anything short of a heat weapon or a bazooka, and Zeon MS were still mostly using 120mm and 90mm machine guns, meanwhile all Zeon MS including the Gelgoog could get shredded by those same weapons, and simply by having magnetic coating that allowed it to become a lot more responsive than units that didn't have it, something that the Gelgoog also didn't have.
Compared to other Gundam units that came after, it wasn't that special, like the proto Buster Rifle-wielding G04 and the more ranged-focused G05, or the Mudrock, it was just a lot more notorious because Amuro kept bending over the competition, while the pilots of those machines were nowhere near the same level even if they had more powerful and fancier armaments and tools.
>ZZ outspecs nearly everything in its own time
It has poor maneuverability for how fragile it is despite its size, notable in comparison to older Zeta Gundam
It's more difficult to get such machine to dodge lethal hits
RX-78-2 has worse specs than the Gelgoog and Zeta was falling behind at the end of Gryps war, while Full Armor ZZ remained top-tier until the end of Neo Zeon war. Also Kamille was able to shit all over Haman with his inferior Zeta, while SHITdau can't even beat Haman(who is holding back) with his superior Full Armor ZZ even after receiving newtype power boost from Kamille
>RX-78-2
yeah, and by the time Amuro had that, he was the ONLY NEWTYPE IN THE WAR
>Kamille was able to shit all over Haman
...you...you do remember HOW Kamille beat Haman and Scirocco, right?
It wasn't by outpiloting her with his Zeta.
Again, you can make the argument ALL the UC protagonists are carried by newtype bullshit and an OP MS. I will grant that Amuro was legitimately the best pilot of the trio, especially by the time of CCA, but...
I accept your concession
>I accept your concession
Even after getting the ZZ he occasionally still used other suits and beat people in the Zeta and even the Hyaku Shiki one time
Banagher could defeat him in 3 minutes
Anyone would win any fight with the TND system
Judau didnt accomplish anything. Haman and Neo Zeon commited suicide
Usso is best since he has the highest killcount.
No, you moron. If we're going to talk early UC, it's Amuro > Kamille > Judau.
Of the three Amuro is the best pilot, as he had the most wartime experience compared to the others. When it comes to newtype abilities he isn't top of the stack, but he probably has the most consistent application/usage of them in a battle.
In terms of piloting, Kamille is below Amuro for certain but not extremely far behind. From the beginning of the Gryps War the Gundam MKII was already on it's way out the door in terms of supremacy on the battlefield, because not long after the AEUG stole it the Titans got the Marasai and it was on near parity. There also has to recognition of the fact that, when compared to Amuro, Kamille was pretty much playing on hard mode. Unlike during the One Year War, the majority of mobile suits during the Gryps War had beam weaponry. So instead of being able to learn how to obliterate his enemies and then learning how to properly evade he was trying to do both at the same time. It also didn't help his case that in a lot of cases he was fighting seasoned Federation/Titans pilots or absurdly insane cyber newtypes, who were also, in a number of cases, also equipped with OP as shit prototypes that no one on the AEUG had fought before. Even discounting the newtype moments at the very end, the fact that he made it that far is proof of his ability to pilot. As for his newtype abilities, he probably has the most raw power out of the three though it's not nearly as refined as that of someone like Amuro.
As for Judau, he's not bottom of the barrel but he's definitely behind Kamille. Out of all of Double Zeta, the only two pilots who presented any actual threat in combat were Rakan and Haman. The reason why was said the way back in Zeta, with Haman saying that Axis' pilots were amateurs with no combat experience. He was further helped by the lack of major battles aside from Dublin and Axis. There's also the fact that Anaheim gave the cast more support than the AEUG did in Zeta, receiving the overtuned ZZ, a repaired Zeta, rebuilt Gundam MKII, a brand new Hyaku Shiki, the Mega Rider, an upgrade for the Argama and then the upgraded new ship Nahel Argama. The only real way to compare his piloting ability is comparing his fight with Haman against Kamille's. In Kamille's case both were using mobile suits at near parity, though Haman additionally had her funnels which was something he didn't have very much experience fighting. And what was the result of the battle? Kamille nearly bisected Haman, only not doing so because le dead woman voice made his mind waver. As for Judau, he fought in the FA ZZ while Haman was still using her Qubeley that she used in Zeta. In addition Haman was holding back for the entire fight, deliberately using her funnels less because she wanted to Judau to come with her. The result? Judau gets the core fighter damaged after ejecting it out of the top half of the ZZ for no reason and is nearly vaporized by Haman, only surviving because Kamille showed up with ghost harem to psychic throw Haman and glue the ZZ back together. Even then Judau almost after Haman baited him and almost cut the ZZ in half. Now, as for his newtype abilities they're top tier in raw power but were mostly held up by his previous encounters with Kamille.
>absurdly insane cyber newtypes
Which were barely a threat if Rosammy and Four are anything to go by. They were functionally moronic.
They broke half the time outside of combat and broke about as often while in combat. I think there was an episode where Jamitov was questioning their worth if they kept blue screening so often or something like that.
Yeah alright, I'll give you that. However in Rosamia and Four's case the bluescreening was large in part a result of their time with Kamille, and even then they were still wiping the floor with grunts in between having conniptions. Char even practically shit himself at Kilimanjaro after he encountered Four while she was defending Jamitov's shuttle.
On the other hand most of the newtypes or cyber newtypes in ZZ are completely useless. Mashmyre lost every battle we saw him take part in, the original Ple and Ple Two both defected from Zeon and Chara was literally so erratic in a wienerpit that she was assigned to guard duty in a mining asteroid. All four of them died as a result of suicidal actions.
You might hesitate, but this is what peak UC Protagonist looks like.
>takes half an episode to 1v1 a rusty chronicle
>jobs to katejina twice
>still killed more than all other protags combined
>including au
>killed
reminder Tomino killed both Amuro and Kamille in his novels while he would have liked to keep Judau for another show at least
Kou Uraki
>who is the best protagonist
>WELL THE BEST PILOT...
Are all americans this moronic?
I guess it's refreshing to have a UC MC who is a little more set in his ways but it doesn't feel like Judau learned anything by the end of ZZ that he didn't already know (the older generation is moronic, war sucks ass and Roux is hot).
what did Amuro learn
what did Kamille learn
what did Seabook learn
etc
Seabook learned how to bake bread and frick his wife.
Corny.
I hate to be a power level moron, but Zeon had nothing even close to the RX-78-2, and I'm a Zeongay. You're absolutely deranged if you think a Dom, which is made out of steel and armed with a shitty heat rod and rocket launcher can outclass a Gundam clad in the finest bullshitium, armed with a 15 meter long laser sword and laser gun that has the output of a battleship's main cannons. The Gundam can be overwhelmed by superior numbers or more experienced pilots, but machine to machine, it's better than any Gelgoog or Zeong just because of the armor alone. Remember that the Gelgoog and Zeong still use steel, the same shit Zaku Is are made out of.
See, /m/ has always been excellent at gaslighting itself into believing the dumbest shit, like the Gundam not being as stupidly strong as it was. I don't know what it comes from, but I think it's because they want to believe SO HARD that Gundam is a "real robot" series, and/or the video game stats. You'd be shocked to see how many anons admit that their main exposure to /m/ stuff is Super Robot Wars games and plamo.
that's no excuse. I got into /m/ through SRW, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out the Gundam has bullshit armor. All you have to do is watch two or three episodes and it's very apparent.
and a 14 year old in an F-35 could be shot down by a bunch of MiG-29s. The point is he has the machine, and had to git gud in it. And once he got gud, he was nigh untouchable.
>And once he got gud
Then why did nobody become as good as him? There's an episode where Sayla tries to go out in the Gundam and almost gets killed in seconds. Amuro has the machine (still debatable, Zeon had machines that were almost up to par with it later during the war) but he has the skills, which is 10 times more important than the specs. Why is it so hard to grasp for your moronic ass that it wasn't just the RX-78-2 that made Amuro a good pilot? This is even further debunked by him being the best pilot in Zeta with a Dijeh which was a supremely inferior machine, or with the ReGZ in CCA where he can 2v1 Char and Gyunei with a machine that is basically a Zeta in terms of specs, years outdated. And also the Gundam in 0079 isn't ever even portrayed as invincible, it needs maintenance, it can be damaged, it can be destroyed and once it gets the magnetic coating the engineers point out it's Amuro outpacing the Gundam and not the other way around.
Amuro almost died fighting a Gouf Troop.
>machine to machine
Do you mean a direct comparison of their specs or fighting each other? Because bullshitium is useless against lasers and unreliable against heat/explosives, and a 120mm is just as good as a laser against a Zeon MS.
>powerlevel homosexualry
>people talking like they know shit but confuse beams with lasers
disgusting
I think it's Amuro but there really isn't a complex reason, just seeing how he started in 0079 to how he is in CCA is satisfying.