Why all the hate for John Byrne's run on Wonder Woman? I'm liking it so far.
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Why all the hate for John Byrne's run on Wonder Woman? I'm liking it so far.
Why all the hate for John Byrne's run on Wonder Woman? I'm liking it so far.
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DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
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You tell me.
Shut up, John
Divorced of everything it's alright, but in context of what came before and real world reasons behind the changes he made it's not held in particularly high regard.
>real world reasons behind the changes he made it
Explain further please, sounds juicy
So it's not just people going not muh Perez like scans_daily?
No, at the time it was felt like a disappointment
The changes that people didn't like was more about him deciding to retcon stuff like the Alan Grant/Garth Ennis Demon (and for that matter the rhyming aspect that Moore brought in)
Cassie Sandsmark only exists so Byrne could get more royalties. Her backstory and setup is 90% the same as a pre-existing character, Vanessa Kapatelis, and she largely takes over Vanessa's position in the story. He then immediately makes her a superhero, has Donna show up to proclaim her the one true Wonder Girl, and starts shopping the character around to team books. And then there is Byrne's patented autism. Her setting arbitrarily changes to a fictional city because DC characters operate out of fictional cities. He spends a large chunk of page space introducing retcons to non-WW characters because he didn't like what other writers did with them. He has Donna's ex-husband and kids killed without comment because he didn't like them.
Imagine hiring a painter to paint your house. He does a technically competent job, but one of the rooms is painted a different color, he stopped to paint the trim in someone else's house, and he replaced your furniture with the same furniture in a different color and is expecting you to pay him for it even though you never asked for it and he also wants to install it in another house. That's Byrne's WW run.
So, Cassie is Byrne's Riri?
>He spends a large chunk of page space introducing retcons to non-WW characters because he didn't like what other writers did with them
Turning the entire 1990s run of The Demon into fake memories really angered me.
The 1980s retcon of Jason being a human connected to a demon named Etrigan was one of the best retcons ever, but Byrne was like "muh KIRBY" after he was publicly shamed for his "I am a proud company man and Kirby shouldn't get his art back" comments.
No it's not. It's fricking moronic.
>but Byrne was like "muh KIRBY" after he was publicly shamed for his "I am a proud company man and Kirby shouldn't get his art back" comments.
It was worse than him just getting publicly shamed for it
Pic related. Kirby and Steve Gerber full-on mocked Byrne as a literally spineless and dickless corporate monster in Destroyer Duck. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the reason Byrne started fricking around with some of Kirby's stuff. The storyline in his Superman run where Big Barda gets mind-controlled, implied raped, and forced to make a porn with Superman also springs to mind
The “implied rape” is just her having consensual sex whole being mind controlled.
It's easily the second best run of the post crisis era. Byrne is a shitty person but to many people let their dislike of him bias their opinion of his work.
Byrne's run is reviled for MULTIPLE reasons:
1. The whole sale rape and destruction of Donna Troy as a person
2. Wholesale bastardization of the Perez supporting cast, who were replaced with god-awful xerox copies (most notably Cassie for Vanessa) and Byrne having a fanboy as an editor who demanded that they become Diana's permanent supporting cast going forward and Vanessa being turned into a mass murdering super villainess purely to spite fans who rightfully despise Cassie
3. The bullshit death of Diana storyline, which led to Diana's mom becoming Wonder Woman and the equally bullshit use of time travel to make her also active in the 40s to make her part of the JSA and restore a mockery of the golden age WW to canon; though in truth, Byrne only did the arc so that he could....
4. Wholesale rape and scorch earth the entire post-Crisis lore of Jack Kirby's Demon, complete with him basically nullifying the ENTIRE 90s Demon run by Grant and Ennis as non-canon; which BTW required Diana to be dead since she guest starred in Demon and Byrne couldn't retcon/erase the 90s Demon series without Diana being gone to call bullshit on the retcons Byrne forced upon the character, most notably making Jason Blood/Demon the same person again instead of two people bonded together.
The ONLY, ONLY, ONLY redeeming thing about Byrne's run is that he resurrected Artemis and actually made her a fully developed character and not a punching bag used to mock egelord characters like Azreal and the whole Knightfall trilogy.
>Vanessa being turned into a mass murdering super villainess purely to spite fans who rightfully despise Cassie
What?
Jimenez had Vanessa turn into the new Silver Swan and pull the equivalent of a school shooting; attacking Cassie's school after getting super villain powers and blowing up Cassie's school with her sonic scream power, killing a bunch of students including Cassie's friends.
And Jimenez also had Vanessa spout a bunch of talking points about how "Cassie stole Diana from her and the right to be Wonder Girl" and other anti-Cassie talking points, before dropping the plotline when he quit the book a couple of months later due to him being pissy that Diana's mom got killed off in Our World At War.
It wasn't until well into the Rucka run that Vanessa came back and ended up being imprisoned on Paradise Island after Diana beat her up and cut a deal to imprison her with the Amazons than send her to jail. And she ended up back into villainy during Final Crisis, having escaped and been part of the Secret Society of Super Villains who got zapped with the anti-life equation. Along with continuing to be the Silver Swan in the New 52 canon.
>before dropping the plotline when he quit the book a couple of months later due to him being pissy that Diana's mom got killed off in Our World At War.
His Silver Swan arc started with #171. His last issue was #188, a year and a half later
What's stopping a fellow autist like Weisman from just using Cassie's stories and background for Vanessa in a cartoon, like how DCAU Tim is basically just Jason with Tim's name?
At this point nothing. Especially since Rucka ripped out Vanessa's villain origin to give to Cheetah and Cassie has never been that popular. Though I think
is being a bit unfair to later writers. It was always made clear pre-Flashpoint that Vanessa is a victim not in control as she was kidnapped, tortured, brainwashed, and mutilated into becoming the Silver Swan specifically to be a gut punch for Diana.
Same reason why no one uses Donna instead of Cassie; DiDio has made it clear that Cassie is the default Wonder Girl for all media and Weisman's such a fricking cuckgay that he won't say no to DiDio and DC.
Hell, Donna got snubbed out of a role in Teen Titans/only appeared once or twice as a special guest star in Teen Titans Go and only finally got a major role in the Titans TV show. And the later only happened once DiDio was gone.
Donna not appearing the TT cartoon had to do with the animations rights of WW characters being a mess until about a decade ago.
More like his Miles.
It's really fricking bizarre just how much power Didio, a guy who's job before DC was doing soap opera publicity, had over the TV division. Should've told him to frick off.
Donna wasn't snubbed because of Didio or Byrne you lying autist.
Wonder Woman rights used to be fricked to where her characters couldn't show up in a show/movie that Wonder Woman was not a main character of. That's why she and some of her villains were in Justice League, JLU, and animated movies with Diana as a main character, but never showed up anywhere else, most notably The Batman where she was absent on that version of the JL and Batman Beyond where Big Barda replaces her as token girl on that JL.
Those rights were smoothed out by 2010, near the end of Young Justice season 1's development, so Donna could not show up like Weisman wanted, but then made Cassie the Wonder Girl in season 2 due to the time skip. They were also going to make a live action Wonder Woman to coincide with the rights being smoothed out but it was ass so it never got made.
The reason is.. why? Ultimately Cassie got to be in the team books, got more use as a character
It’d be like adapting Anarky as Robin or Sasha Bordeaux as Batgirl. Yeah you could , but why do that now?
I never understood the post-Crisis Silver Swan shit (including what Perez did). She was one of the few villains with ties to greek mythology before Crisis, and then they changed it to some weird tech shit with OC donut steal. Strange.
Helen had been depowered by Ares prior to the Crisis happening.
honestly the only good wonder woman was new 52 for a little while until it went to shit too
Perezgays mad that he did to him what Perez did before. Also the OCs were already sidelined in the run before to begin with.
But it's also just not good, but so are most WW runs.
Nobody hates it…