Why can't Cyclops shake off the lame dork cuck stigma despite authors constantly shilling him as an edgy badass pussy-slayer?
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Why can't Cyclops shake off the lame dork cuck stigma despite authors constantly shilling him as an edgy badass pussy-slayer?
The Reed Richards effect. Some characters aren't meant to be Chads despite their accomplishments.
Reed lets Namor frick his wife
I liked him in X-Men Evolution and Wolverine and the X-Men.
he doesn't look cool
he looks like the white version of that black guy from star trek
Other way around. Cyclops came first.
Scott is my favorite Marvel character but he is legitimately a corny dork. Trying to make him only a badass leader is boring.
Because the average person doesn’t know how strong his optic blasts are. In the beginning, Scott always compared it to walking around with a constantly loaded gun and was reserved because of that, now it’s more like a nuke. But even if that analogy did get across, the average person would still think he’s a pussy for being worried about that because the average person doesn’t know how important gun safety is.
I can tell you use the reddit finger
I don’t browse reddit and I don’t know what that means.
Look at Bucky's finger
Are you... are you calling trigger discipline a reddit thing?
Oh you really never go to /k/ eh
nta give me qrd
Its a bit of a meme on /k/ that to have your finger like Bucky does in the picture as a 'reddit' thing.
nta but i don't get it. Is it because his finger is loose by the guard instead of flat on the frame?
Who gives a frick what the trannies at fudd central say.
That board has been lost since at least 2019.
There's nothing plebbit about trigger discipline.
Terrible example because whoever drew this doesn't get trigger discipline either.
Why would his finger be curved on the trigger guard?
Do we really need powerlevels to justify character development?
X-Men movies and Wolverine being the main character in every single show while also being Scotts rival for who can have sex with Jean Grey before she dies again.
In storys about conflict growing stronger is generally associated with development cause usually the power boost is accompanied with the character changing personally aswell for the better or learns something from it.
>In storys about conflict growing stronger is generally associated with development cause usually the power boost is accompanied with the character changing personally aswell for the better or learns something from it.
In BAD stories, maybe. You should stop reading Shonen/Isekai, it's doing irreversible damage to your brain.
No, but it is cool when it happens. I wish Scott would blast villains like this more often.
basic psychic b***hes love the dad leader figure
Telepaths
pyslocke had a thing with beast that was implied
yeah and using telepaths and other teen girls having a crush on a character isn't character development, it's a shameless self insert wish fulfillment
What?
>pyslocke had a thing with beast that was implied
They had one issue of flirting and long before that Psyclocke was all but throwing herself at Scott's dick before he and jean got married in the 90s. Incidentally her longest relationship was Warren so that's 3 outta 4 original x-guys.
>flirting
no, when psylocke came back from the dead they straight up made out. beast licked her, anon. that's more than just flirting
>beast licked her, anon. that's more than just flirting
And that was literally the only time it happened.
they probably fricked off screen though. if the panel ends with that, they're gonna do more. come no now
*come on*
>yeah and using telepaths and other teen girls having a crush on a character isn't character development, it's a shameless self insert wish fulfillment
What about cyclops getting legitimate not mutant Friends by being a member of the champion? And still remembering that after his team self when back?
>hurr durr, let me be your life coach!
>stretchy girl totally wants to date the teen version of me. this is so wholesome! i'm a champion!
>Dude remember all that pizza and video games we played? That was like totally what being friends is about.
Frick you entire 2010s generation of morons
What?
FACTS
And then she fricked Angel instead.
If I had a nickle for every time a lady showed interest in Scott and then got together with Warren, I'd have two nickles. Weird it happened twice.
That poor poor man. Always having telepaths rewriting your mind to be their ideal partner and also your boss rewriting you to make you a better solider. How much of Scott's mind is the original?
Cyclops and Storm are like the sub-leaders of the X-Men, the people between Xavier and the rest of the team, so as much as his fans wish otherwise, he doesn't have that THE LEADER credibility of a Captain America or a Reed Richards because he's not really calling the shots most of the time, but he appealed to the same kind of straight-laced, small-c conservative types of readers who'd like Captain America, Superman, and other moralgay characters other readers tend to complain about as "boring". Unlike those other characters, Cyclops had a more "exciting", more popular character trying to cuck him, with a lot of the readers and writers firmly on Wolverine's side. Even if it took until 2020 for Wolverine to finally cuck Cyclops, the decades of being overshadowed by Logan have been insurmountable. Turning Cyclops into the guy who cheats on his wife with a literal prostitute, tries to turn the prostitute into a wife, and gets cucked by Namor did him a lot more harm than good, as did putting him in charge of the mutants and turning him into Diet Magneto. All that did was give a weird broken version of Cyclops his own fanbase that just wants that weird broken version of him for their weird race war revolution or bawd-taming fantasies.
Now Cyclops isn't just getting cucked by Logan, he's getting Loganed too. You can't come back from that.
Despite the ramblings about cuckoldry, you made a good point at the start. Most people who dislike Cyclops never saw him as THE LEADER, despite filling that role for most of the last 20 years.
>Cyclops and Storm are like the sub-leaders of the X-Men
>Storm
Where? At X-men Evolution? Jean Grey is clearly treated as her superior. Marvel does not even know what to do with Storm.
Can't blame you though, X-men evolution versions are better than 616.
80s comics.
They did Ultimate Cy so dirty
cause 14 year olds like to think they are tough badass rebels like Wolverine so they automatically hate anyone who acts like a responsible adult
As opposed to the 14-year-old nerds who self-inserted as Cyclops and viewed Wolverine as a bully, and now try to shill Cyclops as some kind of mutant ubermensch who has, like, all the sex with all the hot girls and could totally kick everyone's ass but doesn't because he's so stoic.
>nerds
>responsible adult
um.... you mean beast?
Remember that if not for Greg Rucka, Cyclops would have fricked X-23.
Remember what was taken from you.
Because his role is the field leader, so unless he's in a Rightclops role it's hard to make that role seem cool and hip. Then in all mainstream appearances it's dialed up to 11.
....which Cyclops? Her and Scoot were totally gonna be a thing until they swerved to Angel.
Because JEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAN
He left his wife and kid for her, and Emma got left in the dust for her.
Scott and Emma hadn't been together for seven years by the time he and Jean reunited in 2019. And let's be honest, Claremont should never have been allowed to marry Cyclops off to some OC he just met, that story was always stupid.
Because stoic leader guy is always boring. Everyone else on the team gets to have a fun quirky personality and do stuff while stoic leader guy has to be the stiff, bland responsible parent of the team.
Reed is boring
Leonardo is boring
616 Quill is boring
Captain Britain is boring
Every single sentai leader in red is boring
On top of that a guy that just has eye lasers is kind of a bland power too. It's another situation of his power being too deadly so he has to miss a lot, have his power nullified in some way, or somehow be made useless for the story to progress. So most often readers see Cyclops not being helpful at all because he would just instakill the villain too quick.
This really. It’s the Leonardo Effect where the leader is seen as “The Man”.
Teenagers and kids don’t look for that in their favorites, they already have enough authority figures. So they’re gonna lean towards the ones who deviate.
How is it that they made Captain America into one of the more popular and marketable superheroes to the mainstream despite him being one of the prime examples of responsible leader types then? You can have a leader character still embody responsibility if you just write them to be likeable. Upping their "power level" or trying to make them "sexy" is no substitute for giving them qualities that people find endearing.
Cap has plenty of solo titles where he can be generic action dude, while Cyke is always a package deal and rarely gets a chance to shine solo.
I think it's less of Captain America being a generic action dude and more of the fact that he has a more consistent yet varied history than Cyclops, giving him a greater outlet to be involved in things that aren't directly tied to his identity and become more well-rounded in a more organic manner as a character.
That's definitely part of it, people like leaders that give a frick about them, even if a lot of them couldn't give less of a shit. Cyclops comes off as a much more ruthless leader than Captain America, willing to bend and break a lot more rules and conventions, and willingly endangering lives to get things done, which is why even if he's seen as a leader that the mutants want to defend them, everybody else will put him much lower on the list of people to confide in or ask for advice. Mutants will rally around Cyclops out of a sense of identity, but nearly everybody else will rally around Captain America through a sense of trust.
>even if a lot of those leaders secretly really couldn't give less of a shit about them.
Fixed for better context.
That's kind of the X-men in a nutshell, really. If you're a mutant, they'll have your back whether you asked for it or not. It's the kind of thing that should make them clear heroes, but their general "my way or the high way" attitudes and constant attempts to convince you to join them make them come across as far shadier than they mean to be.
>their general "my way or the high way" attitudes and constant attempts to convince you to join them make them come across as far shadier than they mean to be.
Because it IS shady. It's a group of people slinking up to you after somehow finding out you've "awakened" despite not making any kind of public display of it, saying that you should join their group because you fit their criteria and that your priorities outside of said group should never take precedent over the group's interests regardless of your own opinion of what you want to do with your life is what a cult would do.
Cause he's more like Optimus Prime or Superman in that he's not just a leader, he's also an inspirational figure that looks convincingly like he cares for you personally beyond just as a soldier or work friend. It's the kind of effect that even when they outright delegate responsibility or accede leadership to someone, when a crisis pops up you instinctively turn your head to see if they have any advice, really.
Man this reads as so fricking israeli. Some pretender telling you what your country is about (not you and your people). Was this what the comics were like? Giving this to children is disguesting .
Yeah yeah, go back, moron.
So why does Captain America work as the stoic leader type while everyone else fails is it because he's just limited enough to be challenged or is it because he (usually) doesn't have a stick up his ass like the rest of them
Well Cap’s most popular depictions show his own brand of rebelliousness lkke when he defied orders in the first movie to rescue Bucky. But with Cyclops, stuff like the cartoons and movies show him listening to Xavier which kinda makes him look like the type to just obey the guy in charge. Meanwhile Cap had a whole movie about him going against the government
This is the only cool Cyclops.
That's not the Cassaday costume.
Back in the day, he WAS an edgy badass pussy-slayer. Then the 2000s happened where the X books started to dip in favor of the rest of the Marvel spread. Then the 2010s happened when Disney tried to kill the X books forever.
Once their popularity started to dip, he went from being an actual interesting character to generic leader guy because no one gave a shit about who was leading the X-men. He wasn't Wolverine, and that was enough.
>Then the 2010s happened when Disney tried to kill the X books forever.
>There were never less than 5 X-books per month
>Plus Deadpool if he counted at the time
The victimhood complex of X-Men fandom is worse than the X-Men themselves. Fantastic Four was the book that actually got cancelled, and those fans didn't b***h and whine about it at all, while X-gays pretend that's what happened to them and are still screeching about it.
The FF were given a bittersweet and well-written ending in Secret Wars and were sent off into the great unknown to create new worlds and new ideas. The X-Men franchise was just "and then things got worse" ad nauseum.
>The FF were given a bittersweet and well-written ending in Secret Wars and were sent off into the great unknown to create new worlds and new ideas.
You can simp for Hickman and Worst Secret Wars all you want, it still doesn't mean FF readers wanted their book to end or for Reed and Sue to spend years in limbo while Ben and Johnny were in other books and Doom larped as Iron Man.
>The X-Men franchise was just "and then things got worse" ad nauseum.
That's been the narrative for most of the last 20 years, you've had time to get used to it. Also, this is a moving of the goalposts from "they tried to kill the X-books forever" to "once again, things got worse for the X-Men in-story".
>this is a moving of the goalposts from "they tried to kill the X-books forever" to "once again, things got worse for the X-Men in-story".
I didn't mean in story. The books got progressively worse and worse. And don't act like Sue and Reed being in limbo was worse than Wolverine being dead and Cyclops being dead and retroactively mutant Hitler.
>The books got progressively worse and worse.
You know how you do something about this? You stop reading. You stop giving them your money, and let them know why you stopped. You don't keep fanatically following the X-Men like a sports team and holding out hope it'll somehow get good again. If enough of you had done this back in the 2000s or even the late 1990s, things would have turned around long ago.
Wolverine was dead but he was still around because Old Man Logan was there. Why do you think the later Return of Wolverine event was such a nothingburger? He was never really gone.
Cyclops being dead was literally a mercy killing after the way he'd been handled for years.
The X-Men have sucked for over 20 years, and it's beyond salvation by now. Time to let it go.
That's just the comics. Nobody cares about those.
The FF sucks.
>Then the 2010s happened when Disney tried to kill the X books forever.
Nobody buys into victimhood competitions anymore, man. A lot of people are becoming hardened to that kind of shit nowadays.
Also, it's not true, the X-Men have been treated with a special case of favoritism in Marvel to have multiple runs that would have gotten cancelled if it belonged to any other franchise, yet they were almost consistently kept afloat despite being within endangered territory.
My dudes, I could not give less of a shit of what's going on with the X books right now. Obviously they're shit in the can. And I would never cry over the loss of an X book when other great books get cancelled for no reason.
But before Disney got their rights back, they were trying to lessen the footprint of the X-Men. That's demonstrable. I couldn't care less, since the books haven't been good since the early 2000 before the movies went to shit.
And it's beside the point, anyway. The slow decline of the X books' popularity affected Cyclops by making him irrelevant. You had individual characters being more popular than the team itself. They ended up everywhere but the X-men. So, when the X-men needed a team, Cyc ended up treated like a filler member, since he 'had' to be there as the leader, and his character was treated as such.
Because movie and cartoon babies will constantly spam boards and threads without reading a single comic book and would sooner repeat out of context memes.
Trying to shill someone as cool makes them less cool. It's like the teacher telling you something's cool or fun.
I've only started to like Cyclops this year and it's just because I started headcanoning him as somewhat autistic.
Leaders, responsible guys, are not cool.
They are there before everyone, setting up, they're the last to leave.
They don't call out. They don't complain. Because they have to be an example too.
Cyclops always represented leadership. It's just that the writers have lost the sense of what a leader is at times, confusing discipline and conviction with obsession and zealotry.
But being the leader is work. Takes a harder man to not relax and maintain authority, it's tiring and displeasureable to anyone who doesn't seek to control others.
Secondaries. He's lame in the cartoons and movies, so normalgays think he's always lame.
It's literally just because of the visor.
Most superheroes have masks that conceal their upper-face but reveal their mouth, but they cheat by still having cartoon eyes. Batman's "white eyes" can squint, grimace, convey threats. Doesn't make sense from a realism standpoint, since those white eyes are just lenses in his cowl, but cartoon logic allows it.
By Cyclops has an unbending red band for an eye. No emotion. He has to convey sentiments with body language and, worst of all, his mouth. So the reader see this guy emoting (except for his eyes) and it looks dopey.
How do we save cyclops?
I think his design needs a rework
His design screams generic supporting character
It's not as iconic as wolverine
His memorable design is literally the only reason why he's not simply killed off for good
the visor is the only recognizable thing about him
remove that and he just looks like civilian daredevil
Because he is the guy that essentially uses a crutch all the time, he is blind without his visor and without it he's a person of mass destruction. Basically a guy that is always moping around, no matter what situation. Hardly the guy everyone likes to read about
is this just the fault of the movies? They put no focus on him despite being the leader of the x-men. The average person received poor impressions and that paved the super hero landscape for normies and today. His powers are both tragic and cool. I think nerdier people at the time liked him. And he was cool in the games he was in.
He's not the leader, Xavier is. They put their focus on Wolverine and Xavier, the most popular character and the leader.
Multiple writers combined with never ending plots of him being cucked even when they are trying to make him cool.
Because at the end of the day, when your rival is goddamn WOLVERINE, you're going to look like a lame ass in comparison no matter what you do.
I never got the appeal of Wolverine. The only version of him I liked was the X-Men evolution one.
He's a character that runs entirely on the "Rule of Cool", and sometimes that's all you really need.
>when your rival is goddamn WOLVERINE
This is kind the point though. You really have to ignore reality to think it. Cyclops has kicked Wolverine's like EVERY TIME. People keep saying Wolverine is the cool one but the material doesn't back it up. Even in the cartoon when you think about it Wolverine has always just been a grown man throwing a tantrum. Wolverine has a hissy fit, punches his boss and then goes and sulks alone and this is badass? Meanwhile Cyclops, who got everyone else home safe, brushed it off, and then went and found the people who hurt them and was already ready to launch a counter offensive.
the good times.
>Wolverine has a hissy fit, punches his boss and then goes and sulks alone and this is badass?
You literally just described what the primary market, preteens and young teens, want to do, that's why Wolverine blew up in popularity while Cyclops waned.
>Meanwhile Cyclops, who got everyone else home safe, brushed it off, and then went and found the people who hurt them and was already ready to launch a counter offensive.
The event of Wolverine punching Cyclops stays with young people more, it made Wolverine look like a badass and Cyclops a b***h for not playing tit for tat with Wolverine. Cyclops taking both a literal and figurative blow to deliver a counterpunch to their enemy isn't an immediate effect, so the turnout is largely forgotten while the sucker punch is almost universally remembered.
Cyclops is the bespectacled authority figure in the middle of a rough sports match. Wolverine is the macho athlete who the readers know would win in real life. Guess which one the young boys want to be.
when i was a young boy i wanted to be beast and nightcrawler. i also though forge was pretty cool
all three of which could beat wolverine and also cyclops if they have prep time, but nightcrawler would not need prep time
Personally, I wanted to be Nightcrawler and Colossus
I just thought they looked really cool
>Wolverine is the macho athlete who the readers know would win in real life
But he wouldn't.
Wolverine is the cool one to Wolverine fanboys. It's all based on perception and personality, not the idea that Cyclops could totally kick Logan's ass. Nothing is lamer than begging someone to think your character is cool based on feats in a comic they didn't read
This, nobody cares whether or not Wolverine can beat Scott. He’s cool because he bangs women and slashes dudes. Like Adam Warlock beats Wolverine too. But no one’s gonna wanna be Adam Warlock
Adam Warlock is way cooler than wolverine
Cyclops rivalry with Wolverine would be great for his popularity IF he was still the nice guy.
Scott was the opposite of Logan, they were a balanced duo, but the moment Cyclops turned into a controversial figure he started to enter Wolverine territory and got outshined, he turned into a pointless character.
Just like Jean Grey being outshined by Emma Frost.
I mean that was the appeal. They were night and day but they had each other's backs. It made a nice dynamic. Character's need to be distinct to play off each other.
Because he keeps getting paired up with unfaithful women.
He's a superhero with glasses. Nobody wants to be a superhero with glasses. Not even people with glasses.
Time to start writing Cyclops like this?
>Biclops
Huh, they really did predict that Krakoa bullshit didn't they?
build a thousand bridges and suck one dick, and nobody will remember you as a bridge builder
He just has beta energy. Doesn't matter how long Xavier lies dead in a ditch somewhere, Cyclops just comes across as a lieutenant filling in for the big guy.
>He just has beta energy.
So it really is because people don't read comics yet want to act like they know shit.
Cykegays constantly screeching about how cool he is and how people who disagree are LE CASUALS doesn't do the character any favors.
The fricking movies...that's all there is to it.
the only thing I know is that should be his main suit forever. or a modern variation of it
He just needs to ditch the yellow undies and this outfit is great. It's simple and very much a super hero suit, but the webgear and pouches have a touch of militarism which I think suits him. Cyclops is one of the few heroes who should have a touch of tacticool to him as he rides that edge of soldier and superhero.
You're kind of describing Ultimate Cyclops.
That just looks deeply uncomfortable in the crotch area.
he needs something that gives him a stronger silhouette
he's literally just a guy with a visor
compared to the other x-men he looks too basic
You prefer that they should they have given him a pair of satan horns instead?
The pouches are homosexual. There is no good answer for what's in there. Bandaids? Granola bars? He needs to ditch them, otherwise it's fine.
BEHOLD
Because Wolverine exists. Cyclops being cool or edgy feels forced when Wolverine does it without trying.
Unironically because the israelites have been brainwashing the goys for decades to think that assuming roles of leadership is lame, while they teach their own kids the opposite.
It's his design. He's still too clean cut, straight edge. He looks like a dork no matter his designs, especially that one when he was in that onesie with that big X on his face. Wolverine otoh looks 'cool.' Nightcrawler looks different. Cyclops looks like your typical lame duck type character. So no matter what, to people who don't read the comics or recall him from stories past he will always be that type.
So either his design should change/be altered or he will continue to be received the same way.
I've caught a lot of crap for saying that the reason so many vocal fans hate Logan is because he sucks all of the oxygen out of the room for other X-characters. Scott is the best example of that.
You're not wrong. Wolverine certainly has his place on teams but so many lazy writers resort to basically hamstringing the others just so he can show off. And once in a while is fine because you do want to give everyone their moment in the spotlight but it feels too often and too much.
Shitty character
Because he IS a lame dork cuck
Cyke was the best in Whedon's run. Not edgy kind of cool, Batman + eyebeams - angst.
Then the editorial overdid it, with Gillen being able to salvage it as a man raised to be a child soldier.
The problem is that Cyke will always be a failure because he leads the X-Men who cannot win. The Avengers can always boast about saving the world, and X-Men can do that as well. But for X-Men, there is always the question of "what kind of a lasting difference have we made in mutant-human relationship?"
And the X-Men cannot accomplish anything with their cause, to the point we have them outright betray it and just side with the likes of Magneto, Apocalypse, or Selene.
More antiheroic characters like Logan and Gambit aren't supposed to do the work of Cyclops. But they are the ones that can do their work - deal with the current mess with their more questionable methods.
X-Men are a great superhero idea. But it cannot work without a progressing setting.
>>The problem is that Cyke will always be a failure because he leads the X-Men who cannot win.
That's where you're wrong though. Cyclops will always be a winner because he never gives up. Western, or at least super hero ones, aren't about the ending. The X-men fighting to protect a world that fears and hates them isn't supposed to pay off in the books life. It's just a hopeful motivation to keep them on the path of good. Cyclops is, more than any other mutant, the living embodiment of Xavier's dream. And the fact that he fights for that dream no matter how bad things get was made him heroic. The X-men have saved the planet countless times so there's hope. The X-men have managed to win people over to acceptance if in small doses so there is hope. The important part is the fight. And so long as there's fight in them. They succeed.
that's all great until the moment of becoming Diet Magneto and Apocalypse's buddy
Well yes, I agree, but that's a whole lot of other problems with the current book and not an issue of the older ones.
You know why. He's trash in the movies and no one reads comics in which the X-men have been shit for 20 fricking years.