>Was too edgy
Fixed that for you. Also shat up her origin with the Zeus stuff, and genuinely didn't give two tugs of a dead dog's wiener about Wonder Woman and her supporting cast.
"The Amazons are child-murdering rapists" is not workable. That's her cast. You may as well reboot Batman and say Commissioner Gordon and Alfred are running a pedophile ring.
As its own thing it might have been okay. As a Wonder Woman reboot it was dogshit.
As much as I will always love 100 Bullets, Azzarello really can be needlessly edgy sometimes. At least in his own title, it's his world. Doing it for Wonder Woman just seems silly.
>You may as well reboot Batman and say Commissioner Gordon and Alfred are running a pedophile ring.
This is basically what they did with Haly's circus with the court of Owl's retcon. No more fun anachronistic shit with Dick going back to/owning an old-timey circus, now this traveling circus has ties to the Gotham based Court of owls
That was shit too, but it strikes me as less glaring because it was fricking over Nightwing but ultimately the story was an effort to give Batman enemies.
Incompetent, but not as incompetent as "hey, you know the Amazons? The most consistent element of Wonder Woman's supporting cast? What if I totally ruined them and made them reprehensible? Even worse than the Amazons in Greek myth, who, for all their faults, didn't use their bodies to make men lower their guard and let them in before murdering their unarmed victims."
Before the Daughter of Zeus thing, Hippolyta desperately desired a daughter of her own after spending years in isolation on Themyscira. Sculpting a baby from sand and clay, Olympus granted her wish and breathed life into it
See that origin feels way more creative and true to greek mythology than just "Zeus' kid". It's a spin on pygmalion except born of motherly love and lonely desperation
To be fair the daughter of Zeus angle is also valid. Zeus is notorious for fricking around, and his entire attraction to Hippolyta was based on the fact that she was a fierce warrior living on an island he could not touch.
In both its a divine birth, and Diana's powers are gifts from Olympus
>To be fair the daughter of Zeus angle is also valid.
No, it's really not. Marston deliberately used the "woman made from clay/stone/ivory, etc." origin because it'd been used in myths to create women that were either a source of trouble or just a reward to a guy. It established right in the origin that this was a character that drew upon mythology but didn't share mythology's views of a woman's role in the world. Making her distaff Hercules and having her power come from Zeus is a huge betrayal of the fundamental intent in the character's creation.
>people
Who? It was actually one of the best received N52 comics and hence why the run lasted much longer than pretty much anyone else except for Snyder on Batman and maybe one or two others.
>people
Who? It was actually one of the best received N52 comics and hence why the run lasted much longer than pretty much anyone else except for Snyder on Batman and maybe one or two others.
WW was less of a priority for DC, so Azzarello had more freedom to tell his own lengthy story, free of meddling from outsiders. As such it did come across as better than the other nu52 output... at first. But the story he ended telling wasn't exactly amazing even if you divorce it from Wonder Woman's history, and as a Wonder Woman reboot it was about as bad as you can get. People gave him time to see where he was going with Wonder Woman after being given the keys to the proverbial car, and while he did some impressive stunts along the way he ultimately smashed the car up and drove it into a ditch.
What really, really annoys me about it is the same gays slobbering over Azzarello's killer Amazons were absolutely furious that when the baton got passed to the Finchs, they kept them as man hating killers.
It was pretty well received at first, but by the end the only thing peope agreed on was the art being good.The change in the origin was always dumb though.
Women who decided to frick off from the world is fine enough to make them unlikable. Have them frick guys and then ship the boys off to Hephaestus? Okay. But the murders were going too far.
People tended to like it outside of the Amazon’s new lore behind how they procreate. It’s one of the few titles that actually committed to the idea of the New 52 reboot by actually rebooting Wonder Woman’s story and characters, but the way Azzerello wrote Diana was so different from how she was in other books (this is a good thing, Geoff Johns really sucked on Justice League) it might as well been its own continuity. Doesn’t help that the follow up by the Finch’s was so bad that people welcomed Rucka retconning it all, even the good parts, with open arms for Rebirth. The run had the GOATed version of Ares though.
Wasn't very good. It wasn't hated at the time though, a lot of people liked it and considered it one of the best Wonder Woman comics. I mostly found Diana boring and inconsistent and all the gods were written and portrayed like Charmed or Supernatural characters. The covers where nice.
Wonder Woman has always been a mirror that reflected the zeitgeist and the discourse on pop feminism.
People hate the murderzons but the fact of the matter is Azzarello's run came out in 2011, roundabout the same time the prevailing memes coming from pop feminist progressives was of the "drink male tears" and #killallmen sort. Was the change edgy? Yes. But so was the audience.
Rebooting DC was a dumb idea, but what's dumber is that the fans wanted all the characters and stories to be exactly the same as they were before the reboot, making them pay twice for effectively the same crap. We didn't deserve someone like Azzarello giving us something actually new.
Oh shut up.
Batman the Animated series remains the definitive "how to do it right," going back over the decades and updating characters, bringing back some old forgotten ones, and trying to make it into something that would work in story after story. It used the existing supporting cast and characters well, coming up with some new ones along the way.
Azzarello is the definitive "I don't want to be writing a story with this character, but I'll riff on some of the characters" reboot. It's like the first Super Mario Bros. movie. Maybe you can argue it has artistic merit, but it's not fear of change that made people go "dude wtf."
That is some Olympic-level grasping at straws, anon. He wrote a Wonder Woman book that Wonder Woman fans hated, and that (by its very nature) couldn't last.
It's a solid run and perhaps the only good run she's had since Perez. While it didn't utilize her rogues gallery, there was a fun adventure dealing with her Olympian family drama.
One problem though is that people seemed to focus on her out of character attitude in New 52 Justice League written by Johns, which is way different than how she was characterized in her solo book and thus gets lost in the discussion. >Azzarello WW: "I have the capacity to love everyone. >Johns WW: "I kill my enemies"
It was interesting enough during the early issues, but as a whole and in hindsight, it really was a pitch for a Greek pantheon TV show with Wonder Woman inserted into it. Not necessarily a bad thing, but as time went on you could tell what Azzarello was truly interested in.
Don't blame Waid, blame the writers who came after him who latched onto that characterization detached from its proper context.
I think Johns' problem was at the time he was struggling to write the team dynamic. Superman wasn't any better, and I feel like he was just winging it hoping for later film revenue or something. I don't know. But man, did that shit WW characterization overshadow what was going on in her solo book. It's two completely different characters
I think there's been a problem brewing since the Perez run (the Africa arc, War of the Gods... pretty much every time Circe showed up), but Azzarello was really the apex of it: if you overemphasize the Greek myth stuff, you risk making Wonder Woman second fiddle to her own lore. Done right and carefully it gives flavor and weight to her world, but it's easy to slip into "Game of Thrones starring Zeus and co, also there's a star-spangled chick running around for some reason."
Was considered too edgy.
>Was too edgy
Fixed that for you. Also shat up her origin with the Zeus stuff, and genuinely didn't give two tugs of a dead dog's wiener about Wonder Woman and her supporting cast.
"The Amazons are child-murdering rapists" is not workable. That's her cast. You may as well reboot Batman and say Commissioner Gordon and Alfred are running a pedophile ring.
As its own thing it might have been okay. As a Wonder Woman reboot it was dogshit.
As much as I will always love 100 Bullets, Azzarello really can be needlessly edgy sometimes. At least in his own title, it's his world. Doing it for Wonder Woman just seems silly.
>You may as well reboot Batman and say Commissioner Gordon and Alfred are running a pedophile ring.
This is basically what they did with Haly's circus with the court of Owl's retcon. No more fun anachronistic shit with Dick going back to/owning an old-timey circus, now this traveling circus has ties to the Gotham based Court of owls
That was shit too, but it strikes me as less glaring because it was fricking over Nightwing but ultimately the story was an effort to give Batman enemies.
Incompetent, but not as incompetent as "hey, you know the Amazons? The most consistent element of Wonder Woman's supporting cast? What if I totally ruined them and made them reprehensible? Even worse than the Amazons in Greek myth, who, for all their faults, didn't use their bodies to make men lower their guard and let them in before murdering their unarmed victims."
>"The Amazons are child-murdering rapists" is not workable. That's her cast.
I thought her cast was a fat chick and some albino gorillas.
HOW?
Ruined her origin by making her Zeus Daughter.
Did they retcon that already? What's her status quo now?
Yes, it's back to the clay origin
Cool, it's the better one
>Yes, it's back to the clay origin
How did they even un-re-retcon that-no, you know what, I don’t even care anymore, I’m just flat out done with DC, and Marvel too.
Her being a demigod's way cooler than being a clay monster.
What was she like before that happen?
That's not a bad origin
When did this happen? Source?
Before the Daughter of Zeus thing, Hippolyta desperately desired a daughter of her own after spending years in isolation on Themyscira. Sculpting a baby from sand and clay, Olympus granted her wish and breathed life into it
See that origin feels way more creative and true to greek mythology than just "Zeus' kid". It's a spin on pygmalion except born of motherly love and lonely desperation
To be fair the daughter of Zeus angle is also valid. Zeus is notorious for fricking around, and his entire attraction to Hippolyta was based on the fact that she was a fierce warrior living on an island he could not touch.
In both its a divine birth, and Diana's powers are gifts from Olympus
>To be fair the daughter of Zeus angle is also valid.
No, it's really not. Marston deliberately used the "woman made from clay/stone/ivory, etc." origin because it'd been used in myths to create women that were either a source of trouble or just a reward to a guy. It established right in the origin that this was a character that drew upon mythology but didn't share mythology's views of a woman's role in the world. Making her distaff Hercules and having her power come from Zeus is a huge betrayal of the fundamental intent in the character's creation.
>people
Who? It was actually one of the best received N52 comics and hence why the run lasted much longer than pretty much anyone else except for Snyder on Batman and maybe one or two others.
I think it depends on who you talk to or what groups you're in. Because I hated Batman I thought it was fricked up the entire relaunch.
Oh, I thought Batman was shit but I wouldn't say "people didn't like it" 'cause they obviously did.
Regardless this take on WW was good or not, it wouldn't have lasted for like 3 years on its own corner of the "universe" if people didn't like it.
I love it, but I cope by pretending it was an elseworlds
What’s with all this zoomer revisionism? Wonder Woman was one of the best starting titles in the nu52.
People hate it since it doesnt gel with Rucka's pure innocent girl ideals.
Try Marston's, you fricking secondary.
WW was less of a priority for DC, so Azzarello had more freedom to tell his own lengthy story, free of meddling from outsiders. As such it did come across as better than the other nu52 output... at first. But the story he ended telling wasn't exactly amazing even if you divorce it from Wonder Woman's history, and as a Wonder Woman reboot it was about as bad as you can get. People gave him time to see where he was going with Wonder Woman after being given the keys to the proverbial car, and while he did some impressive stunts along the way he ultimately smashed the car up and drove it into a ditch.
What really, really annoys me about it is the same gays slobbering over Azzarello's killer Amazons were absolutely furious that when the baton got passed to the Finchs, they kept them as man hating killers.
It's really not revisionism. Every month there were people, even here, ranting about how the Amazons were ruined.
stupid internet discourse
Zoomers started reading the Silver Age to Bronze Age
I'm dead serious
It was pretty well received at first, but by the end the only thing peope agreed on was the art being good.The change in the origin was always dumb though.
I liked the New52 Olympian designs. pure kino
The murderzons were really the only thing hated about it. They should have told Azz no on that.
They're warrior woman who hate men. You think they wouldn't do what they did in that run?
Women who decided to frick off from the world is fine enough to make them unlikable. Have them frick guys and then ship the boys off to Hephaestus? Okay. But the murders were going too far.
From the little I've read by Azzarello (Doctor 13, two random issues of 100 Bullets, and Joker), he's not a very good writer.
People tended to like it outside of the Amazon’s new lore behind how they procreate. It’s one of the few titles that actually committed to the idea of the New 52 reboot by actually rebooting Wonder Woman’s story and characters, but the way Azzerello wrote Diana was so different from how she was in other books (this is a good thing, Geoff Johns really sucked on Justice League) it might as well been its own continuity. Doesn’t help that the follow up by the Finch’s was so bad that people welcomed Rucka retconning it all, even the good parts, with open arms for Rebirth. The run had the GOATed version of Ares though.
Wasn't very good. It wasn't hated at the time though, a lot of people liked it and considered it one of the best Wonder Woman comics. I mostly found Diana boring and inconsistent and all the gods were written and portrayed like Charmed or Supernatural characters. The covers where nice.
Wonder Woman has always been a mirror that reflected the zeitgeist and the discourse on pop feminism.
People hate the murderzons but the fact of the matter is Azzarello's run came out in 2011, roundabout the same time the prevailing memes coming from pop feminist progressives was of the "drink male tears" and #killallmen sort. Was the change edgy? Yes. But so was the audience.
Rebooting DC was a dumb idea, but what's dumber is that the fans wanted all the characters and stories to be exactly the same as they were before the reboot, making them pay twice for effectively the same crap. We didn't deserve someone like Azzarello giving us something actually new.
Oh shut up.
Batman the Animated series remains the definitive "how to do it right," going back over the decades and updating characters, bringing back some old forgotten ones, and trying to make it into something that would work in story after story. It used the existing supporting cast and characters well, coming up with some new ones along the way.
Azzarello is the definitive "I don't want to be writing a story with this character, but I'll riff on some of the characters" reboot. It's like the first Super Mario Bros. movie. Maybe you can argue it has artistic merit, but it's not fear of change that made people go "dude wtf."
this guy can't draw and that costume blows ass.
Why did you post the cuck version?
Last good Wonder Woman run
Reminder that the so-called Wonder Woman fans didn't even know about the pre-Crisis berserk rage when Azzarello brought it up
That is some Olympic-level grasping at straws, anon. He wrote a Wonder Woman book that Wonder Woman fans hated, and that (by its very nature) couldn't last.
>He wrote a Wonder Woman book that Wonder Woman fans hated, and that (by its very nature) couldn't last.
I bet dozens of them stopped buying the book
there hasn't been any fun in Wonder Woman books ever since
you know I'm right
>Why did people hate this so much back in the day?
They're homophobic
It's a solid run and perhaps the only good run she's had since Perez. While it didn't utilize her rogues gallery, there was a fun adventure dealing with her Olympian family drama.
One problem though is that people seemed to focus on her out of character attitude in New 52 Justice League written by Johns, which is way different than how she was characterized in her solo book and thus gets lost in the discussion.
>Azzarello WW: "I have the capacity to love everyone.
>Johns WW: "I kill my enemies"
>Johns WW: "I kill my enemies"
Waid really ruined Wonder Woman forever in Kingdom Come, which is ironic since he was just writing a failed dark possible future version.
It was interesting enough during the early issues, but as a whole and in hindsight, it really was a pitch for a Greek pantheon TV show with Wonder Woman inserted into it. Not necessarily a bad thing, but as time went on you could tell what Azzarello was truly interested in.
Don't blame Waid, blame the writers who came after him who latched onto that characterization detached from its proper context.
I think Johns' problem was at the time he was struggling to write the team dynamic. Superman wasn't any better, and I feel like he was just winging it hoping for later film revenue or something. I don't know. But man, did that shit WW characterization overshadow what was going on in her solo book. It's two completely different characters
It couldn't be made today
>It couldn't be made today
You can't make me like 2024, anon. But thanks for trying.
I think there's been a problem brewing since the Perez run (the Africa arc, War of the Gods... pretty much every time Circe showed up), but Azzarello was really the apex of it: if you overemphasize the Greek myth stuff, you risk making Wonder Woman second fiddle to her own lore. Done right and carefully it gives flavor and weight to her world, but it's easy to slip into "Game of Thrones starring Zeus and co, also there's a star-spangled chick running around for some reason."
Wonder Woman should never wear pants
It's Ultimate Wonder Woman