Why did the prophecy even say he was meant to be the one who destroys the Sith when he litterally joined them?
Lmao, the Jedi got clowned by this mothefricker.
Why did the prophecy even say he was meant to be the one who destroys the Sith when he litterally joined them?
The prophecy is effectively foreknowledge of the OT, in which Vader kills the Emperor at the cost of his own life.
No longer canon. The prophecy applies to Rey. She was actually the one to destroy the Palpatine. Anakin was not that important. Qui Gon was wrong.
Canon is a dumb lie to make nerds buy more secondary merch and trick them into believing it somehow changes movies that already exist.
Sequels aren't canon
Only TLJ is.
>b-bu-b-but!
J.
I'd unironically prefer TLJ being canon over TFA and Rise
Frick all three!
The first one ruined the first six's buildup and went nowhere, among other things, the middle one shit all over the canon and spirit of the series and characters, and the third was... well apart from having to waste so much time putting out the trash fires that was TLJ, it couldn't help itself but to completely and utterly, fan-fic level, frick over things completely! ("all the sith/jedi" etc) Not one of the movies doesn't completely ruin the story/timeline as a whole if taken as canon.
Disney Wars is not canon
>Disney Wars is not canon
Yes correct
This stupid israelite forgot to attach his undoubtedly stupid fricking soijak face so he abandoned the thread in shame. Get fricked.
Correct. Nothing Disney makes is Canon. The canon scale goes like this goes like this (TRUE CANON) George Lucas > EU (now known as Legends) > Fanfiction.net > DALL-E mini AI images involving Star Wars doing literally anything whatsoever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yidsen Wars (NOT CANONO AT ALL)
palpatine entered rey when he died just like he said he would
did they ever explain how Palpatine "died" for real? Seems odd he would say killing him would allow him to take their bodies then they just kill him
Well back then they didn't know Disney would eventually buy them and frick up so badly.
>congrats, you fulfilled the prophesy, destroyed the Sith and brought the Force back into balance
>what's that? Palpatine's secret Sith cultists will just clone him? oh well, too bad
because he did destroy the sith in return of the jedi when he chooses to defend luke over sheev.
until the sequels which completely invalidate anything that happened in any previous movies
fricking hate disney
It never said anything about Anakin joining the Sith. And he did destroy them, except not, as proven by both old canon and Disney
>plot twist
Disney was the Sith all a long
He did destroy the Sith though
The prophecy was that he would bring balance. He’s like shiva, he had to destroy the old in order to make way for the new. Life is like a serpent that sheds its skin.
George himself said that by balance he meant the light side winning
But what is the light side though, that's a question of interpretation since the word is never stated outright and is only there by comparison to the dark side. The Jedi are certainly not representatives of anything Good, since they're in part responsible for everything bad that happens in SW.
Jedi are just another organization/religion using the light side, the prophecy had nothing to do with them, it was about the eradication of the Sith order (ignoring the fact, that there are different group using the dark side).
It's like Water World, don't think about it too much.
>It's like Water World, don't think about it too much.
Waterworld makes a lot more sense. It's also more fun to watch.
An altruistic concern for the greater good, morality, seeking peace, wisdom, selflessness. Buddhism, Taoism and the Templar code come pretty close to what it is to be a Jedi.
When is any of those things shown to be a concern for the Jedi in the films?
What is shown is the Jedi being selfish, short-sighted, doing shady shit on behalf of the senate/republic, and threaten/manipulate local people that do not acquiesce to their demands
There originally was no light side, there was the balanced force and the darkside.
And that's exactly what happened. The fulfilment of the prophecy is Luke and Leia being the only Force users left alive
>The fulfilment of the prophecy is Luke and Leia being the only Force users left alive
But there are millions more in the galaxy
>fanfic
But the Jedi weren't representing the light side, they were neutral hence why the Jedi got btfo. If they were actually the light side they would have embraced love and not made Anakin hide his love for padme
That's selfish love and attachment from the Buddhist and Jedi perspective. He did embrace his love for Padme, kinda didnt work out.
If he wasnt forced to hide it he coulda went to yoda about his dreams.
Well I probably would have privately told Yoda if I was him. It's his spiritual master keeping something like that from him is dark side in itself. Not necessarily told him who though.
>Master Yoda I romantically love someone what do I do as a Jedi?
He wasnt made to hide it as such. Jedi are meant to be honest. He should have probably told him and decide if he wanted to still be a Jedi or not.
And yet the comics had Kai with a family etc
And it did. The Jedi Order were zogbots that placed their faith in the democratic system rather than the will of the force. They were Materialist and consequentialist Black folk that deserved what they got.
In that case a force faith based system would be an Anarchist one, without rulers. Darth Vader's use of the force to dominant reality is the opposite of this.
The prequels were so moronic that people now question if making the Jedi crazy cultist morons was deliberate or not, lol.
>democratic system
Except when they tried to arrest and then kill a democratically elected leader because they learned he might be a Sith.
>It's treason then
He had supreme powers then. Hardly democratic by that point.
The senate gave him these powers, though.
The Jedi care more about their code than politics but we all know what happened next.
Correct, the Jedi are loyal to themselves, not even to their oaths to the senate. They were already planning on ousting Palpatine for that reason.
Qui-gon was the only one talking about the will of the force, so he's evidently a heretic who is explicitly ostracized for his views.
>The prequels were so moronic that people now question if making the Jedi crazy cultist morons was deliberate or not, lol.
no prequel haters are just so moronic George beat them over the head with this theme and they still don't get it.
> i don't get it why jedi not do right logical thing they the good guise hurrrrr *drools*
>mace windy said same thing evil sith lord say at start of movie me no no get it *brain falls out of ass*
>fans were so moronic that they'd rather argue about intent when faced with the unquestionable truth that the Jedi are a self-interested cult of moronic thugs, and not actually guardians of peace and justice
fixed
That's not an act in violation of democratic principles because if Palpatine really is the second Sith Lord, that implies he was the master of Count Dooku, who was the leader of the CIS. Palpatine is thereby implicated in being the enemy leader and a conspirator of high treason against the Republic. They didn't even go for the extrajudiciary assassination first("the Senate will decide your fate"), when Mace decided to kill Palpatine it was within self-defense.
>that implies he was the master of Count Dooku
Only by reference to knowledge only the Jedi have access to. There is zero (0) proof Dooku and Palps are connected, also since Dooku also doesn't identify himself as a sith at any point. It's the jedi who rather baselessly accuse him of being one (cause he has a red blade and only Sith would be against the republic/jedi right? we're always right and they're always wrong!!)
>They didn't even go for the extrajudiciary assassination first
Bullshit, they came in with weapons drawn, it was always gonna be a fight and they were always gonna kill him at the end of it and take control of the senate (they even discuss such plans well before being told he's a sith).
That Mace knew that Palps would never be convicted by the senate is established well beforehand.
>There is zero (0) proof Dooku and Palps are connected, also since Dooku also doesn't identify himself as a sith at any point.
He has a red lightsaber, uses Force lightning, has yellow lizard eyes and doesn't contradict Palpatine calling him a Sith Lord on the Invisible Hand. It's a tough case.
Second paragraph is admittedly true, but if Palpatine *did* surrender, I don't think they would've killed him. Even Anakin was highly reluctant to kill Dooku. It was just obvious he wouldn't realistically surrender, but that's not really their fault, is it?
>He has a red lightsaber
Oh no not the forbidden colour
>uses force lightning
The dialogue implies that force lightning is simply a technique that you need to be powerful to use, Yoda also shoots lightning but can only manage the weaker, reflecting attack (also note that Yoda -absorbs- the lightning, giving him a power-up)
>has yellow lizard eyes
No he doesn't, and even if he did, that's not proof that there's a connection between him and Palps. Again, you're arguing that this is proof that needs to hold up in a court of law. You're legalistically arguing that the Jedi can prove that Palps and Dooku are sith lords to the Senate, thus preserving the democratic principles violated by their assassination.
>doesn't contradict Palpatine calling him a Sith Lord on the Invisible Hand
Why would he start arguing with them? He already laid out (a fairly complete account too, for a first discussion) the case that they should help him destroy the Sith and they didn't believe him and called him a Sith because he's acting against the Republic.
I mean, we don't really know how much of this is public knowledge, but I figure most of the relevant information about the Sith should fall within historical record. It's not like this is classified secrets for the Vatican archives, or is it?
But even if all that is false, and Palpatine cannot strictly be proven to be the Sith Lord, that doesn't make it the democratic nice thing to let him go. In extraordinary circumstances, an illegal act can be necessary to avert greater problems. Assassinating Palpatine and seizing control of the Senate to instate a transitionary government is probably more democratic than letting him establish the Empire. I mean really, if you had personal proof that the President is a Chinese Satanist who eats children, what's the plan?
>I mean, we don't really know how much of this is public knowledge, but I figure most of the relevant information about the Sith should fall within historical record.
Again, I'm talking about things that are actually in the movies here, what characters say and do. In the movies it's clear that the Jedi have no proof, already had a plan to remove palps from office, and suspicions that he was a sith cause those plans to be accelerated because he constitutes an existential threat to -the jedi order- (notably, not the republic).
Also note that these actions also show Mace as agreeing with Dooku in AOTC: the republic is under the control of the Sith, so the Jedi should take complete control themselves.
In a bit of character development, the reasons for which they were willing to kill Dooku over have now been shown to be their principal motivation.
>if you had personal proof that the President is a Chinese Satanist who eats children
It's an irrelevant question because, again, they have no proof and admit that through their actions.
Cite the scene with an exact quote. He does not say "I am the sith lord Darth Sidious (who we know is behind the separatists)". There is only one scene that definitively establishes that these two are the same person and its way at the end on Mustafar.
>existential threat to -the jedi order- (notably, not the republic)
He really does destroy the Republic though. I concede that he cannot be legally convicted, but clearly the attempt to overthrow him is justified on democratic ideology. Mind you, I don't even support that, I just don't think what the Jedi did is hypocritical in this case.
>but clearly the attempt to overthrow him is justified on democratic ideology
It isn't though, they swore an oath to the senate to be its guardians, that's their role and the source of their institutional power. But what we see is them undermining it, misleading it, distrusting it and that's before the coup. That's immensely hypocritical.
Furthermore, Palpatines empire/republic chugs along for another 20-ish years before he and his bureaucrat allies dissolve the senate.
Mace's Jedi council-dictatorship that arrived by coup d'etat would have to restrict personal freedoms, "take control of" ("aggressively negotiate" with) the senate, etc. etc.
It's not hard to see that their theocracy would have to be way more harsh if they have any hope of not being counter-couped, because their attack would be fundamentally illegitimate.
Yeah, that's all true. But not stopping Palpatine ultimately lead to Space Fascism and Alderaan getting deleted. Every person on that planet would probably agree that the Jedi government would've been the lesser evil. The question, I suppose, is how reasonable it is to predict it to get to that point from where they were in the Clone Wars.
I think I agree with you, anyway. There are unresolved problems though, like: Would it ever be legitimate for the Jedi to resist a threat from above, or must they unconditionally support the government no matter what? At some point, we have to recognise that it is no longer necessarily reasonable.
>Every person on that planet would probably agree that the Jedi government would've been the lesser evil
Well there's the nub of the matter isn't it? The Jedi and the liberals are only a lesser evil in comparison to this absurd state-terror machine, which. we should be clear here, is still the Republic. The Empire and The Republic are just two sides of the same coin.
Just being a bit better than genocidal fascists isn't quite good enough, that's been in star wars since ANH.
>This is what happens when you huff Drump farts too long
Also how am I a trumper and drumper at the same time? Make up your mind.
Drumpf is a way to insult Trump supporters and their rhetoric by showing how the family changes their name to sound more Anglo you think as shit MAGAtard
Then you're even more moronic than I thought, because I'm making the argument that the Republic is evil because of its built-in injustices, racism, and droid slavery.
You called the Republic a state terror machine when that was clearly the actions of the Empire the same way you threw out all that Jedi and liberal crap as gaslighting.
Moreover your saying that the Jedi sith are a balance of light and dark respectively and then turn around and say the Jedi do dark stuff as well
Make your mind up MAGAtard
lmao you're moronic
>The Jedi and the liberals are only a lesser evil in comparison to this absurd state-terror machine
Why are the liberals there all of a sudden? Anyway, yes they are, but under the circumstances there wasn't much choice. And trueh is, The People (tm) weren't the ones making it anyway.
Leia and the rebel alliance represent liberalism, they are a liberal faction within the Empire who were previously ascendant under the Republic.
It’s clear they’ve already restricted freedoms as seen in rogue one and the obi wan series
The whole point of the delay in dissolving the senate is he takes that 16 odd years to remove the current military etc until the only people left are loyal to him personally (sound familiar? It’s an actual tactic when dictators take over democracies) and the idea of an Empire
>It’s clear they’ve already restricted freedoms as seen in rogue one and the obi wan series
Again, we're talking about the movies. Chumps who are into the EU need not apply.
Rogue One is a movie MAGAtard
Rogue One does not have any bearing on what happens in any other star wars movie, they were made completely outside of its influence.
Rogue One is, however, a good exploration of ideas that were already in the OT + PT, but it does not inform anything that happens in them. It's a separate discussion.
except for the part where they are literally smuggling the plans to blow up the death star which they eventually do
>clearly the attempt to overthrow him is justified on democratic ideology
no, that's a crime
The law is distinct from the ideal here. Every revolution is illegal, such as the creation of the United States.
>revolution
The jedi do not do a revolution, which can be arguably in line with democratic principles (granted, democratic principles written by people, some of which were pretty keen on revolution) because sovereignty derives from the people.
but the revolution came from Palpatine moron, the jedi just tried to kill him out of fear which kind of pushed Palpatine into being more aggressive, sort of what happened when Caesar crossed the Rubicon without the senate orders and he was declared an enemy of Rome out of pure fear even though he did nothing wrong
These jedi talk so much about not giving into fear but they seem very afraid to lose their little order
Yeah, but if your objective is democracy, then not opposing Palpatine is the course of action that leads to you losing. That's ultimately the situation.
that's the thing democracy doesn't need the Jedi
Democracy doesn't need the Jedi in the position of power that they have. Had shit went peacefully, the Jedi would most likely became a peaceful monastic order in a couple hundred of years. A VERY rich one.
Luke ultimately inspires Vader into killing Palpatine by a display of pacifism. This should be your starting point for analysis.
You're not understanding what I'm writing, probably because you're stuck in EU-thinking: Nothing in that happens in the movie Star Wars (released 1977) is changed by the movie Rogue One (released in 2016).
Rogue One is set before the Senate is dissolved and yet shows the facist nature of the Empire already. As seen also in the change in clothing and design philosophy to flat mono colour white and black surfaces
Remember the scenes where the storm troopers are going through the city?
>Rogue One is set before the Senate is dissolved and yet shows the facist nature of the Empire already
That's what we might call a "ret-con". I know this is a hard concept to get across to you, but Disney lied to you about star wars.
I don't believe that the Empire became authoritarian overnight. Order 66 was already a pretty authoritarian sort of thing to do, and democracy had been explicitly abolished from the start. There's no retcon here.
>and democracy had been explicitly abolished from the start
Wrong. The senate is abolished in ANH, some 20-odd years after the empire is established.
The Empire is the Republic, in another modality of the state. The republican mode of doing violence is slightly better, but not good enough.
>Moreover your saying that the Jedi sith are a balance of light and dark
No.
A retcon doesn't actually change the work it is rectonning, it can only change the way you interpret it.
Did they have that proof prior to attempting to assassinate the leader of the senate?
The Senate has no power over Palpatine though. I took it as similar to the parliaments of monarchies like the Reichstag of the German Empire or the Duma in Imperial Russia. They sort of matter but also not. Either way it literally isn't called a Republic anymore.
>The Senate has no power over Palpatine though
Yes and no. The senate (and its member states) are powerful enough that Leias main goal for most of ANH is getting evidence to -inform the senate- about the DS. Or the fact that attacking the Tantive IV is dangerous -because it could generate sympathy for the rebels in the senate-.
Up until its dissolution, the imperials are mainly worrying about how the senate will react, and Leia mainly wants to rally support for Alderaan in the senate.
That's because the Senate is the forum of discussion for the member systems, but they couldn't vote out Palpatine if they agreed that he's mean. The idea is to get enough support to overthrow him. It is already open insurrection at that point.
>That's because the Senate is the forum of discussion for the member systems
No. It is also heavily involved in the administration of the Empire "How will the emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"
Well, the same can be said for the Imperial parliaments I mentioned. They were even democratically elected, and were relevant, but the government overruled them.
So one minute it’s not changing anything
and now it’s a retcon?
i was someone else who chimed in and have never seen any EU stuff besides rogue one
i didnt imply it changed anything
>He has a red lightsaber, uses Force lightning, has yellow lizard eyes and doesn't contradict Palpatine calling him a Sith Lord on the Invisible Hand.
Meh. And? He was a Jedi, but led the separatists and tried to negotiate with the council through captured Obi-Wan. Jedi were initilally against Republic having its own army to deal with him. And the only Jedi to act on chancelor's command to execute Dooku over Coruscant was also a) the only one not brainwashed by them from childhood b) probably the most successeful field commander and c) stopped the motherfricking assassination of the chancelor by Jedi.
>There is zero (0) proof Dooku and Palps are connected
In the Clone Wars anime it's established that Dooku goes by the name Darth Tyrannus (Making him a sith in it of itself by taking a Sith title) and thatt he's in league with another sith named Darth Sidious, they spend the majority of the anime trying to figure out who Darth Sidious is and even in the 3rd movie Anakin says
>You're the Sith Lord we've been searching for
When confronting Sidious
>In the Clone Wars anime
We're talking about the movies, not retcons.
And Anakin -thinks- Palpatine is "the sith lord they've been looking for" but he has no proof other than Palpatine said he knows about the dark side, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's puppeteering both sides of the conflict or has anything to do with Dooku.
Palpatine literally tells him he's a sith lord
You mean the guy who started the entire separatist war? Thats like finding out George Dubya did 9/11 and not arresting him because he was elected president
well why isn't George Bush arrested then
Personally, I think assassinating George Bush would be justified. Then again, assassinating any US President at any time is justified for any reason
Found the tard
>Thats like finding out George Dubya did 9/11 and not arresting him because he was elected president
anon....
They didn't find that out, is the point. Pay attention.
>2 sith lords
>darth dookie controls CIS
>they cant find the master behind it all
They know the sith master is running the show ie they know that palpatine is a traitor the second they find out hes sith
>They know the sith master is running the show ie they know that palpatine is a traitor the second they find out hes sith
No they don't, they have no proof, re-read the thread.
They have it on video moron.
They didn't even know that. Anakin said that he might be a Sith and the Dindu moron decided to arrest this incredibly popular chancellor who was democratically elected by the senate.
>In the name of the Galactic Senate of the Republic, you're under arrest, Chancellor.
The moron said this even if the senate supports Palpatine (including the formation of the empire) and the Jedi have absolutely no legitimacy as no one elects them.
Then the Black person idiot literally tries to murder this incredibly popular politician without having any evidence of him being the bad guy. How the frick were the Jedi planning to explain this to the senate?
wouldn't surprise me if they did mind tricks to make the senate memory hole Palpatine
>How the frick were the Jedi planning to explain this to the senate?
They don't. At this point the republic was pretty much non functional as a federative democracy (it couldn't even push the trade federation to stop Naboo blockade in Ep1). Senate was eager to end war by any means necessary, including getting rid of federative system, and whoever didn't want it already fricked off to CIS anyway by Ep3. At this point it is now a question of will the power be usurped or not, it is who will usurp it: Palpatine or Jedi. Remember, if he is dead then there is nobody to activate order 66, so Jedi are still in charge of the army and can just shell the senate like Yeltsin in 1993.
>so Jedi are still in charge of the army and can just shell the senate like Yeltsin in 1993
Such a naked usurpation of power would lead to a civil war and the dissolution of the republic.
My impression was mace-dindu, along with every jedi, had such a great fear of the Sith that they were willing to go around the formalities of democracy. The Jedi Order serves the republic but doesn't mean they are completely subordinate to it. They are like a religious organization. Christianity and Islam are not dependent on the formalities of democracy to do its thing. Corporations and most of private life is this way. I think Mace-dindu was in the right. Democracy comes second to eradicating such a clear threat. Palpatine demonstrated his Sith status during his fight with them during the arrest. That was proof enough. Also remember that Anakin didn't care about the formalities either; he says "I NEED him", before cutting off the hand, of course referencing his need for palpatines powers. Democracy never really mattered, neither does it in reality.
>The Jedi Order serves the republic but doesn't mean they are completely subordinate to it.
They are subordinate to it, they answer to the senate and are supposed to be loyal to it.
This is only in principle. In practice they worship the force, which is what the ultimately answer to, like any other religious organization. Obiwan himself expresses reservations of politicians in ATOC.
>In practice they worship the force
No, Qui-gon does. The others are highly skeptical to this whole business of prophecies and chosen ones and living force this and that. Qui-gon is partly excluded from affairs because of this attitude.
>Obiwan himself expresses reservations of politicians in ATOC
That's part of their hypocrisy, they answer to the senate, but are distrustful of them for being corrupt -and- go along with their corruption.
Like, this is a pretty dumb view that you have, with no dialogue or evidence to show for it.
We figured that out pretty quickly, yet 9/11 gave his party a huge majority and got him reelected, instead of lynched.
Yoda says the prophecy was misread maybe, i think by ROTS George wanted to change it to 2 sith 2 jedi as balance but later on changed his mind for the 7th time.
Well yeah, within the context of the dark side having so many points on the board up until that point.
How does that contradict what i said? Luke is the new
>bring balance to the force
Jedi hoovering up force sensitives to deny Sith and dark side users recruits only played into the Rule of 2 power concentration.
George retcons himself constantly, his canon material has more than enough counterindications of this -- evidenced by Luke 'winning' in the Emperor's throne room exclusively down to his 'attachment' to his Father, and Anakin's to his son which completely contradicts late stage Jedi doctrines; Luke 'should' have been irrecoverably lost to the dark side and ruled the Galaxy as Vader's #2 otherwise.
>If they were actually the light side they would have embraced love
There are severely defective ideas of what constitutes the good and justice in the Order by virtue of leaving Anakin's mother in bondage (as if this wouldn't be the constant source of bad conscience for him), and assenting to lead in combat without protest a slave army of Clones contracted in their name. Both were fatal.
There are only George sanctioned materials (EU), and everything else.
They have odd inertia/weightedness that isn't apparent by just the handle alone.
In Lucas treatments for a third trilogy, Leia would have a joint hand in the prophecy alongside Luke as a peacemaker, finally burying the hatchet between New Republic and legacy Empire regions, being Twins and all.
Only Lucas' stories and continuity have any bearing at all.
Prophecy was made up. There's no source for it
It's an old tale that we keep injecting characters into as God's favourite son. Truth is, it's all of us.
read dune and dune messiah you homosexual
Source for that?
>Prophecy states that he is supposed to bring balance to the force.
>There are two sith lords
>Thousands of Jedi
How the frick were they surprised that he ended up turning on them?
>muh equal number of christians and satanists
That's moronic, you're moronic
Balance in Nature is effectively good, everything being in harmony with good light (Day) and good darkness (Night). Satanists/Sith seek to twist and invert natural laws to their own selfish ends, this is not balance, its turning the scales upside down.
>The one who will bring balance to the force
If by balance they mean making everything worse and destroying a planet then I guess. At the end he brings peace and reconciliation and all is good in the galaxy. Then Disney come along but that's fan fiction.
>have a bunch of jedi
>they all think the sith are gone
>there's still some prophecy for someone to bring balance
>almost all the jedi get killed
>now there's few in number on both jedi and sith side
balance
>Sigh....somehow Palpatine has returned and invalidated the prophecy involving Anakin Skywalker
Get le plot twisted, the most powerful being in the universe lost to the guy who stood slighlty above him
where did the prophecy come from
"A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored."
―A Jedi prophecy[6]
An ancient Jedi prophecy,[7] made by an ancient Jedi mystic and recorded on a holocron,[6] foretold that the Chosen One would restore balance to the Force by destroying the Sith.[4] The prophecy also predicted that the Chosen One would also become one of the strongest Force-sensitives in the galaxy, rivaling the power of the most legendary champions of the Jedi Order.[8]
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Chosen_One#Origin
fanfic garbage
the prophecy never been explicitly worded in the movies is the entire point, trust wookipedia homosexuals to ruin it
prophecy never said he'd destroy the sith prophecy said he'd bring balance to the force
The truth is Jedi were a corrupt organization abusing their powers manipulating governments and assassinating people
Jedi in their limitless pride thought the prophecy would destroy their enemy (sort of like israelites expecting jesus to kill every Roman)
But Anakin brought balance to the force destroying the Jedi you can notice how every single jedi was surprised when they were attacked by the clones except Yoda who was well aware of how jedi had become evil and was expecting it
Why was there even a prophecy? Didn't the Jedi believe they had destroyed the Sith for good already since a thousand years ago?
Who wrote the prophecy and why did the force need balancing?
>Why did the prophecy even say he was meant to be the one who destroys the Sith
it didn't say that. it said he would bring balance to the force which he did. 2 sith, 2 jedi.
You unironically got filtered by Lucas's original intentions. Not talking about the stupid Filloni or Disney shit.
>Bring balance to the force
At the end of the Clone Wars there was only two Jedi and two Sith. Balanced.
>One who destroys the Sith
Vader literally kills Palpatine and gives birth to the New Hope (Luke)
Not that hard to follow it's a kids movie anon.
...and Leia
>balance
>all the bad guys end up dead
In Lucas' original sequel trilogy it is revealed that Leia was the real chosen one who brought peace to the galaxy.
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-leia-chosen-one-george-lucas-plan-setup/
>https://screenrant.com/star-wars-leia-chosen-one-george-lucas-plan-setup/
He took way too long to get around to making that.
Even Lucas realized the Chosen One shit was stupid.
He brings balance by killing all the jedi and sith and creating a true neautral as seen in return of the jedi where Luke's face is half covered in darkness
I already established why balance is inherently good and evil is an inversion of balance. No Sith is balance.
Sith do evil, but so do the Jedi. In fact, the Jedi spend the majority of the PT serving Palpatine, who is literally representing the Senate/Republic.
Could "balance" then mean the death of all Jedi as well, in a kind of "death of god" situation? Since they're all dead by ROTJ depending on how Luke interprets the events of the Throne room.
I get your point but palpatine performing evil through the proxy of the Jedi is evidence of them being moronic not evil.
The message of the PT is the same as that of Spaceballs: "Evil will always triumph because Good is Dumb".
But it adds the "Good" also performing a bunch of evil stuff, small and large, along the way: threatening to have people killed by the Mafia, blackmail, cheating on deals, starting wars of aggression, etc. etc.
Like, can anyone actually give me an example of a genuinely act that is Good and Just done by the Jedi during the PT or OT?
>Like, can anyone actually give me an example of a genuinely act that is Good and Just done by the Jedi during the PT or OT?
I'd argue they saved a boy from a life of slavery, but even then they still didn't solve the problem of the slavery.
>I'd argue they saved a boy from a life of slavery
Qui-gon only wanted Anakin because he thought he was the Messiah, and he cheats and blackmails Watto (as well as the Force, if we believe in Fate) to do it. A wholly self-interested act.
>oh no the jedi used some tricks to cheat the SLAVE owner out of his child slave
You must be a israelite just like watto
We have already established that Qui-gon gives no shits about the institution of slavery. If he did, it would be at the top of his priorities rather than a mere trade dispute.
Again, I'm just telling you that democratic institutions were a thing and were powerful until about half-way through ANH. What the empire was up to that point is presumably closest to the Principate in Rome, where the trappings and institutions of the Roman Republic remained but were gradually hollowed out.
If it was the will of the force, why does Qui-gon have to cheat the dice to get the outcome he wanted? He cheats the force, making him a double hypocrite.
Tatooine/Jakku is in the republic.
>Tatooine/Jakku is in the republic.
>QUI-GON : I'm afraid not. Had he been born in the Republic, we would have
identified him early, and he would have become Jedi, no doubt...he has the
way. But it's too late for him now, he's too old.
>WATTO : Republic credits?!? Republic credits are no good out here. I need
something more real...
>GUI-GON : Your mother's right. Is there anyone friendly to the Republic who
might be able to help us?
SHMI shakes her head no.
It is undoubtedly not. In the Mandalorian, the Imperial presence on Tatooine is referred to as "the occupation".
It happens in Solo, but I don't think any conclusions on this can be drawn within ANH.
Iirc the old story was han was a navy officer or cadet. He has to leave after he rescues Chewie. When did they explain the life debt?
He leaves the Navy before he rescues Chewie in Solo. Not gonna lie, I didn't finish the movie because the feminist robot pissed me off too much, so I don't know anything that happens in the second half.
>Mandalorian
lol
Note that all the language is ambiguous, no one ever says "Tatooine/Jakku is not in the Republic" at any point, even though it would be trivially easy to establish that.
Instead its "Controlled by the hutts" (which doesn't preclude membership, Hutts are just crime lords. Or "the republic doesn't exist out here" (same, it's a statement about law and order) or "credits are no good here, i need something more real" (the republic isn't real -out here-, they're out in the sticks)
Anakin was likewise not born of Tatooine, and was brought there when he was around 3 years old, see the scene when we first arrive on Tatooine and they ask him how long he's been there.
Instead, ask why the characters -expect- that their money will work there, or why they expect that the Republics anti-slavery laws would be in effect on Tatooine/Jakku.
I have never received a satisfactory response to this, so I hope you'll surprise me.
>Instead, ask why the characters -expect- that their money will work there
They don't, they just don't have anything else and try it.
>or why they expect that the Republics anti-slavery laws would be in effect on Tatooine/Jakku
They don't, it just depresses Padme that it's legal there.
I do regret how vague it is, but the only logical interpretation is that Tatooine is in Hutt Space which is politically independent from the Republic, and is occupied by the Empire at some point later on. I figure this probably happens after Jabba dies, but idk.
>They don't, it just depresses Padme that it's legal there.
No. It's making a specific statement about Padmé, she expects there to not be slaves on Tatooine, and Shmi says the Republic does not exists on Tatooine. That is not the same as Tatooine not being a member of the Republic, it rather implies that it is illegal on Tatooine in accordance with Republican laws, who are just not enforced.
That implies that Tatooine is a member, but it's just... controlled by crime lords.
No, not really. There's no reason to read it that way. She says "I can't believe there is still slavery in the galaxy", a statement of disappointment about conditions in this country.
Also, note that Qui-Gon says he has "Republic dataries". You wouldn't say you have "US Dollars" if you are in the US.
It makes sense to clarify what currency you have if you're in a far-away and lawless place. It's more like Qui-gon is in like, Bosnia or Transnistria (if they were EU-members and more lawless).
Tatooine is perfectly analogous to a shitty European country like Moldova who is not an EU member though. Like that's exactly what's going on here.
It is in fact not completely analogous when the characters act in ways that show that they expect Republican law and currency to be respected. You have only dismissed these scenes out of hand, not shown my interpretation to be incorrect.
>the only logical interpretation is that Tatooine is in Hutt Space which is politically independent from the Republic
Also, I'm going to have to stop you there. You have not explained why my interpretation of the ambiguous language and the characters expectation is illogical. I find it quite logical.
I suspect your resistance is rooted in the fact that my stance is non-canon, the EU does not recognize it as fact, but it is clearly correct in the films. So therefore, the EU is fundamentally incorrect.
I admit that the term "Hutt Space" is derived from external material, but "Hutt-controlled area" is a concept established within the confines of TPM. I cannot stop you from your interpretation, but it is a far less intuitive reading of the script, and all other Star Wars material disagrees with it. It is certain that Lucas does not believe Tatooine is within the Republic, and it only makes more sense that way.
They do not expect Republic law and currency to be respected. You have to go out of your way to try to read the script that way, it is not the apparent meaning at all.
Tatooine is apart of the Republic
Insolent Republic dog, I will give you my shoe!
So I was correct: you are now seeking refuge in what you imagine was authorial intent and that a lot of other people also misinterpreted star wars and they can't all be wrong can they? You are not talking about what's in the films anymore, because you can't actually show that I'm wrong.
On the topic of intent, Lucas was the guy who pointedly did -not- make a movie where anyone said "Tatooine is not in the republic". He instead made a movie that kept Tatooine's status somewhat ambiguous (which works even better since it's status of being inside the republic but not in practice is a position of ambiguity as well) and where the characters try to use Republican-brand credits cards and a senator expects republican anti-slavery laws to be followed (i.e. she's well acquainted with the concept of sovereignty).
What kind of delusional defense is this? I quoted the script directly, feel free to ask anyone what they take away from it. I won't take your personal headcanon about Tatooine away from you, but it is completely invalid in a public discussion.
For risk of bringing up politics: parts of Ukraine are controlled by the Russian state right now, this does not mean that those parts are legally no longer a part of Ukraine.
There is a difference between De Jure and De Facto here. Tatooine is de jure a member of the republic, but de facto controlled by a group of crime lords called the Hutts.
That makes it questionable why the Republic would not reassert control over it in the Clone Wars, unless you choose to believe that the later Imperial occupation is exactly that. There is a possibility of this, but there is no real indication for that at any point: Qui-Gon simply accepts that Anakin was born outside the Republic, and member states already being under illegal occupation would certainly be a political issue, when the Naboo crisis is notable specifically for that happening. The Republic doesn't consist of every system in the galaxy, Kamino is also independent.
You are talking to a schizo. Tatooine is not in the Republic, it's in the Outer Rim, Hutt Space.
Literally google it moron its canon and in the republic, its just the republic doesnt give a shit about tatooine
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tatooine
Even the Canon page only says that the Empire "established a presence" on it during the OT, it has no affiliation with the Republic.
Your friends that write wookiepedia can't save you. No articles about star wars comics or books will ever change what is just in the movies.
In the clone wars movie Palps says the Hutts control the outer rim (which includes tattooine)
So again the MAGAtard lies
The EU is the principal source of misinterpretation, lies, and misunderstandings on the part of the fans. It has no bearing on what is in the movies.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hutt_Space/Legends?so=se
I'll make it easy for you morons.
The Hutts occupied a large portion of the outer rim systems, even up to half of the known systems and then some in their prime. Cite something at least before saying something moronic next time.
EU-homosexuals please go away, this is a high-level discussion.
There's really nothing to show that the imperials are "occupying" Tatooine by ANH. It's not an issue that is brought up once, and Luke even wants to join the empire in a way. If he has feelings against the empire because they occupied his planet, then you bring that up.
On the point of what is happening in TPM, the republic is established as weak and sluggish with regards to the Federation-Naboo conflict so there's no contradiction there.
In fact, it rather connects the conflict with the state of affairs on Tatooine, showing the extent of the breakdown in law and order in some parts while/because the powers that be are more concerned with interstellar trade than galactic slavery.
Tatooine being a part of the Republic thus enhances the movie by making the Jedi and Republic directly responsible (in addition to just having a moral responsibility) for Tatooine, but if it's not, then what is the thematic point of Tatooine in the context of the movie?
Also note some visual connections between Tatooine and Naboo, the sand dunes of Tatooine and the green hills of Naboo. The locales represent certain things, and they are connected in both theme and visuals.
The point of Tatooine is to contrast the civilised metropolitan and green Republic vs the sandy ramshackle dumps that are most of the settlements on Tatooine with its barbaric entertainments with lethal chariot races (a nod to Arabs using child jockeys) which is outside the Republic. And how the Jedi and republic go on about their values but don’t go and stop evil stuff outside their zones
In a trilogy that's largely about the Jedi failing to stop the rise of fascism, I don't quite see the point in starting off with a bunch of legalistic excuses for why they can't do anything about galactic-scale injustices.
Again, if we just read Tatooine as a part of the Republic, then the movie is simply better.
>the Separatists could possibly feel mistreated by a central government this inexistent
The planets that want to secede are not the same ones that are lawless. The Feds have nothing to do with Tatooine. They want to secede because of the events of TPM, because the central government is more preoccupied with beating down an alien member exercising its rights to blockade (which implicitly is just one example among many of such mistreatment). This is evidently more important than slavery, but no one really cares. This is a series of movies where the Republic fundamentally fails, and we see that conflict in the first movie. The clone wars and Palpatine makes no sense without this set up.
>And where is this in the movies, then, moron?
The first scene where Anakin and Padmé talk. You really should rewatch the movies instead of reading wookiepedia all day. You might seem like less of an idiot.
>ANAKIN : Since I was very little, three, I think. My Mom and I were sold to
Gardulla the Hutt, but she lost us, betting on the Podraces, to Watto,
who's a lot better master than Gardulla, I think.
There's nothing here that implies anything about being relocated from a different planet. You just completely made that up. Your headcanon is indefensible.
Tatooine is not part of the Republic, the evidence decisively establishes this and you have been repeatedly BTFO innumerable times in this thread. It is time to give up and withdraw. Come back next time better-prepared.
Your only evidence is one thing qui gon said however theres plenty of dialogue that supports the otherside, anakin being born there or not makes no difference
“ Tatooine, an outer rim territory, had to be part of the Republic for the clone wars to make sense. If the planters from the Rims that were not represented by the Senate weren’t part of the Republic why was the Separatist movement was trying to cede from the Republic? Imo, people take the “ruled by the hutts” thing too literately. The Hutts had all the power but that doesn’t mean they were the legitimate government.
Padmé had trouble understanding how Anakin and Shmi were slaves because the Republic has anti-slavery laws. If Padmé didn’t believe Tatooine was a Republic territory, why would she even think this?”
“I don’t understand, ” [Padmé] said. “Slavery isn’t permitted by the Republic. There are antislavery laws…”
>Tatooine, an outer rim territory, had to be part of the Republic for the clone wars to make sense.
Tatooine had no involvement in the Clone Wars.
The Separatist systems were all represented in the Senate, btw.
>Padmé had trouble understanding how Anakin and Shmi were slaves because the Republic has anti-slavery laws. If Padmé didn’t believe Tatooine was a Republic territory, why would she even think this?”
She did not think this, she was simply shocked by the poor conditions on Tatooine. There is no indication that Republic law was actually expected to be followed on Tatooine, only decency.
Again, you flat out lie and alter the dialogue.
>PADME : I can't believe there is still slavery in the galaxy. The
Republic's anti-slavery laws...
It had a huge involvement in the clone wars
Read this and realize youre wrong
https://www.quora.com/Is-Tatooine-part-of-the-Republic-or-is-it-in-Hutt-Space
>Wookiepedia is an invalid source
>But Quora is valid
This debate has been settled quite satisfactorily. Tatooine is not, and will never be under the rule of Republic onions.
If you actually read it it uses nothing but logic and evidence from the movies so yeah that links info is better than wookiepedia tard you lost the argument
Cope and seethe, schizo. Tatooine is free and will never accept Republic dataries.
>no argument
I accept your concession
>not a single piece of evidence that Tatooine is under Republic rule
I respect your headcanon
Is there one that proves Jakku is literally Tatooine and "Hosnia" is just Coruscant?
>the evidence decisively establishes this and you have been repeatedly BTFO innumerable times in this thread
For such convincing evidence, you people seem to have difficulties citing things apart from Wookiepedia.
Believe I've been BTFOd all you want, it won't make it true.
It’s typical Lucas crap ambiguous wording
Otherwise you would have had Anakin outright saying he was born on another planet or in space.
>If he has feelings against the empire because they occupied his planet, then you bring that up.
The Republic was already clearly widely disliked on Tatooine during the prequels, and this surely carries over to the Empire. By default he resents the Empire, and after they intrude on the planet and gun down his family he has a valid justification for joining the Rebel Alliance(though he didn't even need it because he's just a shithead who wants to go on pointless adventures).
If the Republic was already so shit that random member planets are under the complete control of mafia slugs, this calls into question the entire plot and how the Separatists could possibly feel mistreated by a central government this inexistent. Tatooine not being part of the Republic is by far the most reasonable interpretation, within the movies alone.
And where is this in the movies, then, moron?
>MAGAtard
Kys you obsessed troon Tatooine is in the Republic its just not cared about enough to enforce its laws
Drumpfer got triggered
>troon
Kys Shay
Hutts don't control nearly the entire Outer Rim, only a small part of it. Tatooine is indeed under Hutt control though, and all the proof for this is within Phantom Menace.
What kind of exceptional homosexual walks into a star wars topic and starts throwing around moronic anti- MAGA insults?
A troon who lost the argument related to Star Wars
Yup, makes sense.
It's still funny to see how TDS is still a real thing after all this time.
You’re the MAGAtard who started with the whole Jedi and liberals crap and then the whole doublespeak where destroying a planet is somehow acceptable and the whole insurgents crap - the typical hypocrisy of an Ameritard who celebrates the insurgents who rebelled against the British
Sorry but i'm not the droid you're looking for. Just pointing out the stupid.
If the argument can be about trump instead, maybe everyone will forget what the argument was and he doesn't have to admit that he's wrong.
Of course, he's already admitting defeat by trying to get off the point. Tatooine is simply a part of the Republic, it's irrefutable.
If it was party of the Republic the Jedi could just turn up to the local ruler and get what they want
Oh wait...
The de jure rulers of the planet are evidently not "friends of the republic".
Unless they tell them to frick off? The republic has no military at the point of TPM the crime lords controlling tatooine dont have to listen to jedi they have a sort of hands off relationship and disdain with the republic and jedi anyway but Tatooine is in the republic legally so you lost the argument
So if it’s in the Republic legally then Anakin was born in the Republic. Which he wasn’t as stated by Qui Jon. Even if you use the de jure defence that’s rubbish when you then turn around and say it seems de facto not when it suits your arguments
Anakin was not born on Tatooine. He was brought there by a Hutt who then lost him gambling.
It’s ambiguous because the script was rubbish and ambiguous
One translation is that he was born somewhere else - however it’s clearly not meant to be that subtle and especially if you end up relying on non movie stuff
Since none of you idiots bothered to write out the relevant dialogue:
>I'm a pilot and someday I'm gonna fly away from this place
>how long have you been here?
>since I was very little, three, I think. My mom and I were sold to Gardylla the Hutt.
Ambiguity is not in itself bad, but I can see how it can be annoying if you have autism.
In this case, it is clear from the conversation and how we watch movies, that "this place" signifies Tatooine. Padme just arrived to the planet, looking around and talking to the locals.
Like, no one cares what Mos Espa or Watto's shop specifically is like; Tatooine is the setting, anything else is just coping so your official headcanon (the EU) can be maintained.
NOPE
https://imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace.html
PADME : You're a funny little boy. How do you know so much?
ANAKIN : Since I was very little, three, I think.
LITERALLY LYING. How are you this mentally ill over Tatooine?
I did say the relevant parts of the dialogue anon? I don't know what you think those irrelevant quotes prove, but it is typical when you've lost the broader point that you focus on quibbles.
How about you instead watch the scene?
>How are you this mentally ill over Tatooine?
Why is it so difficult to just admit you're wrong?
ANAKIN : You must be one...maybe you just don't know it.
PADME : You're a funny little boy. How do you know so much?
ANAKIN : Since I was very little, three, I think. My Mom and I were sold to
Gardulla the Hutt, but she lost us, betting on the Podraces, to Watto,
who's a lot better master than Gardulla, I think.
PADME : You're...a slave?
Lol that isn't even how the scene goes you fricking moron. You just mistook the script for the actual movie because you don't even watch them and know what happens in them.
>MAGAtard
Trump Derangement Syndrome
>why doesnt Qui Gon go around and fight every slave owner on the entire planet and then move to the next outer rim planet and fight all the slave owners there
He obviously isnt pro slavery but what is he supposed to do on outer rim planets that cant feasibly have republic laws enforced
>If it was the will of the force, why does Qui-gon have to cheat the dice to get the outcome he wanted? He cheats the force, making him a double hypocrite.
because the force wanted him to do it (because he's based)
yeah but that was the will of the force so cope and sneedthe elsewhere
Qui Gon did that though, he's explicitly against the council, which if anything shows how shitty the PT era Jedi are even more
>Qui Gon did that though
Did Qui-gon free all the slaves? No he freed the one that was useful to him.
he freed the one that the Force guided him to
Again, if we believe in being guided by the force, it guided him to free Shmi and leave Anakin on Tatooine.
>it guided him to free Shmi and leave Anakin on Tatooine.
fanfic autism
see
Why would the force guide him to free shmi?
You need to have more faith in the force young Padanon, maybe it has something to do with Anakins dream of freeing all the slaves?
Youre legit moronic
Wtf
Slavery was illegal in the Republic, Tatooine was in Hutt Space which was not their business.
>jedi are the protectors of peace and good in the galaxy
>but only in the central most part, not the majority of the galaxy
Yeah maybe Dooku was onto something. The Jedi kind of suck.
Hutt Space isn't that big. The Republic certainly covers the vast majority of the sapient population.
>they saved a boy from a life of slavery
Anon they won a fricking gamble on his life and his own prize money against his own freedom. And only because they needed some engine part. With all the shit he went through because Jedi unloaded prophecy bullshit on him, and with the way Watto treated him and his family, i genuinely believe that he was better off with him on Tatooine.
>Could "balance" then mean the death of all Jedi as well, in a kind of "death of god" situation?
Most likely. Don't forget that if you don't count the cashgrab fanfics that EU was (inb4 it was good - i know, but that doesn't change the movies), there are no organized force users left. Siths are dead, both. Last of the Jedi are dead, both, and Luke, while being a user, has nothing to do with it.
>i already established
you'd fit right in with the jedi self righteous c**ts however reality is different and your idea of what balance means is wrong
>oh no someone isn't agreeing with me
you should call me a sith kill me and call it a day
From my point of view no jedi is balance
Why do the Jedi let anyone leave the order alive with their powers in the first place?
They never said he would destroy the Sith forever. Evil never dies boi.
how do they duel with lightsabers? what happens if they accidentally cut one of their limbs or head off??? doe they have somekind of setting that isnt lethal? lmao
also why the frick didnt vader just pull the falcon down at mos eisely like he did that ship?? did his powers go limp along with his dick
I NEED FRICKING ANSWERS THIS SHIT IS moronic
the reason jedi are the only ones that can use them in the first place is that you need to force to use them without dismembering yourself, you have some sort of force spidey sense, yet another reason why john boyega fighting with one was moronic
Finn was supposed to be force sensitive but they wanted it to be focused on Rey
That’s why he says that stuff about only Rey and Leia understanding and the secret thing he wanted to tell Rey
>doe they have somekind of setting that isnt lethal?
Yes, lightsabers have various power settings, some non-lethal just for training.
ffs *face palm*
No, he was the one to bring balance to the force. Killing the emperor was merely the quickest means to this end. There will always be light and dark, it's only a problem when one side takes control over everything. Arguably, his offing the old order was very much a part of it all, as well as putting and end to the rule of one.
Rey is the truly choosen one, dyewts
The Sith were the good guys. Fite me IRL.
>no background for the prophecy
>prophecy makes no sense
>for some reason the "Council" think its Anakin although there is no reason to do so
Great writing, I am sure a comic explained this in an intriguing, logical, non cope way.
>can't follow a children's movie
This! Is it any wonder how the ST got so many watchers.. All about big flashing lights and SE and little on critical thinking skills.
Funny you bring up the ST. TLJ, flawed as it was, had a lot to say that could only really be picked up on by folks who actually know mythology, stories, and people. Basically, more well-read folks.
Riancucks are just absolute bottom of the barrel people. I am so glad neoliberalism is a dying ideology
Maybe, maybe not but sadly TLJ had nothing relevant to say for the series.. It was all about brain dead subversive wank. Thanks the the hack they put in charge of it. Too big of a fricking moron and self important to read the room or care about the canon or nature of the series/story. TLJ was an utter failure, only held up by pretentious and pompous self-titled "critics" and buttholes using "subversion" to ruin media for the people who care about it.
filtered
>the only SW movie that actually explains what the frick balance means is the one everybody hates because SW can only think in terms of what they're seeing as it happens
We live in a society.
The prophecy never said him specifically, but it said someone would and he fit the bill with his high power level. But what it actually said was bringing balance to the force, which he did.
>joined the sith, allowing there to be two sith
>purged all the jedi save for two (tv shows and secondary media say otherwise but they don't count because none of that's in the movies)
>You're referring to the prophesy of the one who will bring balance to the Force?
>He is the chosen one...he will...bring balance
>If the prophecy is true, he will be the one to bring balance to the Force.
>Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?
>You were the Chosen One! You were supposed to destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in Darkness!
Watch the movies tard, the prophecy always meant destroying the sith, the sith are the opposite of balance by just existing and Anakin eventually did destroy them
He also destroyed the Jedi, that's the point
He didnt though, he failed to kill two of the highest profile jedis, and they trained Luke but at the end of Star Wars palpatine and vader are dead, the only two sith, and no if you start bringing up the sequels or some gay book it doesnt count
>Jedi all get slaughtered
>Vader kills Obi Wan
>Yoda dies cos he's old as frick
>Vader kills Palpatine and himself
>Luke + Leia are all that's left
That's literally what happens in the movies
>luke was trained by obi wan and yoda as a jedi and they literally say hes a jedi
>no jedi left
Are you stupid?
The old Jedi order is gone, yes
But the sith are extinct
yes?
He did balance it. Two Jedi, two Sith.
>leave it in Darkness!
Obi-Wan was objectively wrong though. The Jedi numbered in the thousands by that point while there was only ever a consistent count of 1 Sith around at best. If anything there was an over-abundance of light, not darkness to be left in. And you can cope about the Empire being the le bad guys but as far as the OT goes, we never actually see them do anything objectively evil.
See
The prophecy always meant eliminating the sith entirely
So the jedi won and the sith lost the balance was the sith being entirely wiped out, yes the jedi order of the republic age is gone but the jedi survived
Building and using a planet killer
Enslaving Wookiees
And that’s just in ANH
How the hell do they enslave Wookies in ANH?
Wasn’t it talked about how Han had rescued Chewie?
>make WMD as a deterrent to get insurgents to stand down and restore order
>killed those who aided known war criminals and fugitives
>destroyed territory of known war criminal as punishment for not giving up government secrets she stole
Still all illegitimate considering the empire came to power due to a war that was started by the chancellor himself who controlled the CIS making him a traitor and the empire illegitimate. Thus the rebellion is morally in the right
>started by the chancellor himself
Dooku controlled the CIS and was about to execute a senator for no reason. Sheev sent troops to intervene. Nothing illegitimate happened.
Sheev is dookus master. Youre just being facetious at this point
>never see the empire do anything bad
homie
>slaughtered some jawas
>killed lukes aunt and uncle
>destroyed an entire fricking planet
the death star was a delousing installation
still not seeing it seems that the empire it's just killing rebellions to protect the people
And this is why it’s no point arguing with Bad Faith MAGAtards
, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?
Yoda says immediately after this that the prophecy could've been misinterpreted. Balance by definition doesn't mean one side has complete domination. By all accounts Anakin did what he was supposed to by joining Sheev.
Yes but he does destroy the sith by RotJ and allows the jedi to live on through Luke
All events in star wars have been orchestrated by emperor "all the sith" palpatine.
The sith made a dagger who's knife edge would line up to the ruins of the second death star and would point the way to a trinket that would point the way to exogol. They made this thousands of years ago.
Everything, including the setbacks, was foretold, expected, worked towards, and exploited.
Therefore it is entirely possible and even the most likely scenario that the prophecy of Anakin was given to the Jedi by a sith so that the Jedi would set themselves up to be destroyed.
From his point of view the Jedi were evil. You see, he did bring balance to the force from a certain point of view. And he was a good friend.
The prophecy was stupid on multiple levels and added nothing of interest to the story, but the clear point was that it emphasized dramatic irony.
No it wasn't. It goes in line with force-users having the power to see the future. It would make sense there's a force user so powerful at foresight that he could see a "balancing in the force" in the future. It made Anakin's situation more compelling now that he has an additional burden of being the "chosen one", rather than being a mere talented individual. This adds a more supernatural element to the tale, taking it beyond just science fiction, even mores than the Force itself. In the OT, it was never emphasized that the Force gave people foresight. Only the PT, especially during the Phantom Menace, do we see foresight become a key part of the Jedi's power. Its in fact where their reflexes come from. In fact, foresight is the greatest power of the Jedi. The prophesy ties into this power very cleanly. It would be odd to have foresight as a key power but then NOT have a prophesy of any kind. The two go hand-in-hand.
>It made Anakin's situation more compelling now
If you need the story to spoonfeed you stakes, I guess. I don't.
It is a campy science fiction with laserswords and laser guns; but a prophesy is too much?
When nothing ever suggested it prior and it contributes frick-all to the story? Yes. The fact it's fantastical is not the problem.
TPM was the canon first movie. Of course its the first to suggest it. And its contribution is by being a part of Anakin's downfall. He was DESTINED to be the greatest jedi, leading to hubris, "he's holding me back" and "you underestimate my power". Without the prophesy there is no destiny, just a talented person. Also, destiny was a theme of the OT.
They're prequels that rely on being prequels for a lot of their tension and intrigue. They aren't incoherent if you watch them first, but they weren't written that way. The number in the title makes no difference.
The SW Prequels are unique in that they are true "prequels" in the sense of artistic merit. Lucas had the entire story laid out and specifically chose to make the first film in the middle of the story. They aren't like most prequels where they were decided and conceived of after the fact. They aren't spinoffs or made by corporate decisions, they are part of the same single story from the one artist.
>Lucas had the entire story laid out
lmao
You must still be in high school.
Frick off. It was called episode 4 because it was nostalgia for serial b movies that you'd catch out of order, they didn't even decide Vader was Luke's dad until they got the sequel.
Vader was always the main character of the overall story. Lucas just decided to make ANH self contained in case he never got to make a sequel
You're cute, anon.
>Lucas had the entire story laid out and specifically chose to make the first film in the middle of the story
Lmao if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you
Prequels should never be watched first, they are by definition achronological sequels.
>it took 20 years for people to realize that the Jedi acting like dicks was the actual point of the fricking movies
Lucas seriously overestimated his audience, holy shit
prophecies are typically terrible plot devices, it's hard to think of examples where they are used well, but this was no exception. prequels had shit writing.
it never said he was going to destroy the sith, that was just the Jedi interpretation of the prophecy. The real prophecy was that Anakin would bring BALANCE to the force - and he did by becoming evil to balance out the good that had been oppressing the sith for years.
The Jedi were so shit that after Palpatine exterminated them even Padme was all like, 'oh well, he's got a point' lol.
The prophecy said that ONE would bring balance to the force. Qui Gon thought that was this homie but it was actually his son.
I always imagined that the prophecy just said something aling the lines of "SKYWALKER WILL DESTROY THE SITH ONCE AND FOR ALL"
anakin did nothing wrong
He was said to bring balance. The Jedi were no longer in balance since they became complacent and soldiers for a corrupted republic. Anakin brought balance by eradicating the Jedi in RotS and the Sith in RotJ.
That's not why. It's more likely because they literally suppressed all force users who didn't join them across the galaxy. Among other things. They no longer allowed themselves to help innocents or fight for good. They were basically going through the motions while aggressively protecting their place as the only legal force users. You could also argue that they atrophied in their actual power with the force it self. Their strict no-use dogma, after thousands of years of mostly sith free peace means that they so totally fell for their own passivistic dogma, that they stopped actually learning/teaching use of the force beyond the most basic of abilities.
The prophetic was about bringing balance to the force.....and during the time of the prequels, the Jedi had it too good.
Anakin did bring the balance, by joining the Sith.
He did destroy the sith. He just had to join them first. The order had to collapse, they too were an issue.
APOLOGIZE
TFA and TLJ were fine and the only mistake Disney made was listening to you morons and course correcting into schlock with TRoS
Spoken like a true normie cuck!
For supposed children's movies, so many adults sure seem to be utterly incapable of understanding their plot. Being a Star Wars historian is more impressive than being a real historian.
they're aimed at children, of course they're gonna be too complex for american adults
It's not so much that the fans are incapable of understanding the basic events of star wars.
They just refuse to because they like their idea of what Star Wars is more than they like the actual movies.
Thematically, the EU and the movies are at odds with each other, but fans will just maintain willful ignorance out of some kind of sunk-cost fallacy.
What's really impressive is that fans will spend so much energy analysing the completely wrong aspects of the films, which is why Lucas made the PT to mock these people.
Case in point:
Lol are you the homosexual who reads inaccurate scripts or did he leave?
What I wonder is if you are two people or if you only change your typing style between posts to pretend as if someone agrees with you.
Are you surprised that there are several heretics who are correct about star wars?
I'm not sure there are. To be so irrationally devoted to an untrue belief about Tatooine's political status does not happen every day. Mind you, the argument in this thread has been ongoing for hours and was about the Jedi and Palpatine before, so one or both of us are very autistic.
We are absolutely both on the spectrum, we're both here after all.
I don't need to samegay though, my arguments are sound and my interpretations make the movies better than how you interpret them, and you should always interpret movies in the best possible way.
I used to think the same as you, actually, but after I looked into it more and considered the details of the lines across movies, I came to a certain conclusion about Tatooine's political history. I do have a strong opinion about this and have thought about this for a long time, hilariously. I respect headcanons that deviate from the literal script in most cases, because they can have value as you say, but a neutral description of the plot has to be something else. I have many unsound headcanons on this franchise myself, believe me.
As far as TPM goes, there is no evidence against Tatooine's "independence", but you have a better position to argue in ANH where Imperial troops move into it and establish curfew with no apparent local resistance. I believe Lucas himself changed his mind on this matter over time and you have to make a couple assumptions to make all SW media check out.
All they had to do was make Anakin's force ghost appear to finish off Palpatine in ep9
Honestly most of the sequel trilogy's problems can be fixed or bandaided with lucas style special edition edits to retcon some shit and add detail to others
The sequel trilogy will never be fixed. The other ones actually had a unified vision under a single creative leader. And even though Lucas created the original trilogy, he states the hardest part of making the prequels was creating pairity and connectivity to the originals. As in, it took him a long fricking time. As did the world building.
You can check out some deep dive stuff on that whills dot nu website
>he states the hardest part of making the prequels was creating pairity and connectivity to the originals
He failed.
?
The prequels do a good job of expanding the setting in a literal way: more planets, more kinds of people, architectural and sartorial variety, all the ships. It makes the world feel alive independent of the story. But the more explicit connections he makes to the OT are inordinately clumsy and forced, or otherwise pull against them in ways that are borderline contradictory.
Says the cucksoomer, who can't form a single original opinion without some supplementary YouTube critc telling you what to believe. Prequel hate = quick onset man baby sweep of hatred. Just the other side of the coin of nostalgia.
lol
>Prophecy say he will bring balance
>Bring the number of sith to 2, only obiwan and yoda remains.
Balanced was achieved and it worked but then they added a bunch of jedi and sith and ruined the narrative.
Star wars never shone thanks to its writing anyway.
The Force was not balanced in the prequels. The Jedi themselves say their ability to use the force (as a source of insight/prediction) was greatly diminished by Mace Windu himself. It's because the Dark Side permeated the seat of the Jedi due to Palpatine.
Some EU even went as far to say the Jedi Temple was build on an old Sith temple. But that doesn't explain why the Jedi's ability to use the force was suddenly diminished.
No idea about all the lore or the EU. I just think the whole concept of "bringing balance to the force" wasn't about destroying the sith but actually having only two of each side. This add layers to the chosen one narrative, instead of saying "luke is actually the chosen one".
We're the CIS unironically the good guys? If they weren't manipulated by Sideous, or if Dooku were able to defeat him, would the CIS have brought a better rule than the Republic?
Better than the Empire, maybe, depending on your point of view. Separatist holdouts and veterans strongly supported the Rebel Alliance.
Is Lucas a soufpilled?
No. quite a bit of star wars is about libertarians being dumb losers
>would a bunch of megacorps be good rulers
homie, please.
the battle droids were based morons and the alien chinks had good intentions
The feds in TPM were originally just after whatever they could get, being desperate after their mistreatment.
Of course, the ideal state of affairs would be if all the slaves, droid and organic, were freed and their oppressors were made to stand trial for their crimes against the people.
This would, however, likely end with R2D2 and C3PO and Anakin condemning the Republic political class to death or at the very least life imprisonment.
>morons
>based
Tell me you’re a Drumpfer without telling me you’re a Drumpfer
you wouldn't want to have a B1 as a coworker or buddy?
He killed palpatine, therefore killing the Sith (Temporarily atleast)