He was a total fricking badass - basically as close to Jesus as I've ever seen on TV. But viewers hated him for some weird reason. Why? He finally brought justice to all these shitty Lannisters and Tyrells who never cared about average Joe.
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The only reason anyone didn't like him is because he was imprisoning people for being homosexuals. That is it. Every person I have asked as to why they don't like the guy that actually fixes the corruption of King's Landing is that he didn't like the gays.
>imprisoning people for being homosexuals. That is it.
You say that like it's nothing. I don't think people should be kidnapped and imprisoned because they are gay.
I can smell your crust. MMMM FRICK that smells good
That's what already happens all the time in this world, do you think Renly and Loras kept their relationship secret because they're shy?
It goes against God's will and remember, the Gods are real in this story. It also is antithetical to good order and the health of society. Homosexuality should be rooted out and purged and only Heterosexuality allowed to thrive. Or it grows and spreads like a cancer. Such is the ideology of the faith.
>It goes against God's will and remember, the Gods are real in this story.
And the humans don't have a fricking clue what the gods want as evidenced by Stannis murdering his own daughter.
>It goes against God's will.
How do they know that?
>How do they know that?
By the nature of Man, of Woman, and of Childbearing. It takes a lot of ~~*education*~~ to think poopdick is a good idea.
Homosexuality doesn't automatically mean anal sex.
Thats because youre a moronic brainwashed scumbag.
Right. I'm the brainwashed one. Not you, the guy who thinks a particular type of person should have their human rights violated for the crime of existing, because an ancient book says so.
Cool it with the antisemitism. It's not just any book, it's the Torahz the word of God, and it says I'm special and the chosen one, you don't disrespect me goy
Nice, glad we're on the same page. Just remember your ol pal when you decide to stand up for sodomites again 🙂
You're just mad because they have sex and you do not.
Throwing people in prison is nothing compared to what other characters have done.
Human society did not evolve with being gay, a gay has no moral reason to care about future generations, adopted children from them are just pets
I'm a freedom lover myself and I'd want as many protections as possible for gays, but the reality is that they have offer no benefit to future society so the arguments for their protections are completely emotional
I'm of the mindset that scientific aberrations should not be destroyed, but they shouldn't be encouraged either
good take. I'd also add the extremely underreported problem of drugs, disease, and mental disorders within the gay communities as a reason this shit should not be encouraged at all.
>but the reality is that they have offer no benefit to future society so the arguments for their protections are completely emotional
Is only true if literally the only benefit any human can contribute to future society is breeding their own children. Which is untrue and moronic.
not the only one, no, but breeding strong future generations is the primary contribution any one average person can make to the future of humanity. of course there's the occasional Einstein or Franklin but that's not what we tool our societies around. And considering all the baggage being a homosexual carries with it, it shouldn't be encouraged (at least. it could be argued that it should be actively discouraged).
Then don't state your argument is such a broad and ridiculously way next time anon. Add some nuance, because your last post was just foolish.
>but breeding strong future generations is the primary contribution any one average person can make to the future of humanity.
Is also incorrect because just the breeding isn't what makes for a better society, RAISING a stronger future generation is the primary contribution. The most physically strong person coming up in a bad, or none existent, family unit is worse then a weaker person raised well for society at large.
Think your shit through more anon.
For 99.99% of people, yes. The vast vast vast majority of people just live their lives and dont put any great works or inventions or innovations out. They just have kids and hope that their offspring end up better than they did. What do homosexuals have? Self destructive hedonism?
Yeah, persecuting people for sex between consenting adults is awful. The christoid larpers flooding this board can get bent.
There's a difference between persecution and not having a parade and the ability to force your fetish on children.
Sure, but the High Sparrow is hardly unique there in Game of Thrones, homosexuality is already forbidden there.
Yes, Shlomo, we know you’re raiding.
The show did a really bad job of showing the nuances of the Sparrows. In the book, they're a populist movement basically rising up against abusive elites. Part that does involve imprisoning "sinners", but their main thrust is bringing the great houses and the throne to heel.
In the show they're just a bunch of homophobic skinheads, who happen to have a smug and articulate leader. The High Sparrow is still a great character, but the show portrays his movement as just a bunch of hateful bigots rather than people with legitimate grievances against the system.
The point of his character was that his piety was just a mask. He wanted to win the game of thrones as much as anyone.
No indication of this at all
not him, but doesn't the high sparrow renege on a bunch of promises that he makes to various characters? legitimately can't remember, my rewatches tend to lose steam near the start of S5
Yeah, he fricks over Cersei, but he clearly does it because he's a true believer, there's even a scene where Sassy Grandma Tyrell attempts to get him on her side by bribery and blackmail but none of it works.
Not because he is a true believer but because he enjoys the power over these powerful people.
Its like when Jamy Lannister capture cut his hand instead of getting money because they enjoy it.
[Citation Needed]
>Not because he is a true believer but because he enjoys the power over these powerful people.
There's literally no indication of this though.
>actor gives look of smug satisfaction when others suffer
>no really, he's a good guy!
Actual series good guys like Ned Stark never did that. Jon Snow never did that except to the bullies and he was chastised for it and immediately made amends. It indicates the Sparrow is a bad guy.
gives look of smug satisfaction when others suffer
they were being punished for their sins so of course he will look satisfied
Because he is a villain in the show yes, the good guys don't do that
why are you not allowed to be satisfied when powerful people finally get punished for their crimes?
its not the jesus way
Because taking satisfaction in the pain of others is a sign of psychopathy and unhealthy, and its beneath the pious because the faith of the seven has figures that offer compassion in the face of justice - you're supposed to execute the will of the gods without personal pleasure
OP asked why people disliked him, people disliked him because they dislike bad guys
Everything people like about the bad guys in GoT is moments when they are being good guys or potentially have redemption
You replied to posts arguing about him not being a true believer and were very clearly implicitly arguing he wasn't, dumbass.
He wasn't otherwise he wouldn't be a bad guy, the faith of the se7en doesn't do shit like torture people
Yeah I wouldn't disagree that he's cathartic and a nice change of pace as far as villains go. I'm glad it worked out the way it did though that scene was cool.
>otherwise he wouldn't be a bad guy
Your pea brain not being able to handle the idea of a guy not being a lying hypocrite and also not a hero who does everything well is not my problem
How are you still looking at pure good and bad in the series featuring ‘one doesn’t pay for the other’? Practically the whole point of the series is nobody is entirely one or the other
Ned and Jon are entirely good, their only flaws are in executing tasks not moral character
Whether he is ultimately good or bad, audiences love the promise of retribution he brings for the series’ myriad of unsettled crimes, until we begin to see how catastrophic his idea of retribution may be to the realm
It can’t be denied that GoT intentionally creates a massive list of horrible crimes and violations specifically to beg the coming of a messiah to resolve them, though it explores the foolishness of that want alongside what a real messiah might look like
Being a bad guy is not the same as being hypocritical or a liar. Of course he's an antagonist in the show, but that doesn't mean anything for the discussion at hand
I'm not saying this isn't a possible read on this character, but there's nothing in the show or books to actually indicate that he's power or glory seeking for himself.
Yes he robs an old lady but instead of moving on he renigs and robs her again
Complete projection
I mean you put in the biggest of moron terms but that is essentially what happens in the books. Cersei is so fricking stupid she okays a proto-peasant rebellion into becoming a religious paramilitary organization. But I don't think the high sparrow has an delusions at any point about ruling de jure, at best he just wants to be the pope to the kings
Yeah I didn't literally mean that he wanted to be king, more that his story was the same as a lot of the other characters in the sense that he just wanted to "win". His faith was just the guise of his way to power.
He would have "won" by taking Olenna Tyrell's offer. It's shown his entire existence that he was interested in purifying the faith, if he had any agenda it'd be targetting the rich and nobles more severely since they caused the War of 5 Kings and have never face true holy punishment.
It's been a while since my last rewatch but the high sparrow was not painted as a good guy by the end, I do remember that. And I remember the point being that the church in this instance was merely being used as method to gain power, much most of the rest of the cast are maneuvering to secure power at the cost of being "good".
*much like
>And I remember the point being that the church in this instance was merely being used as method to gain power, much most of the rest of the cast are maneuvering to secure power at the cost of being "good".
You remember wrong
No, that part I definitely remember. Why is this thread being so hostile to this point?
You can disagree with the creators or whatever, but that was the point.
>He was pretending because... I say so
He wasn't, at no point was this ever indicated, in fact Olenna thinks he is just LARPing and falls flat on her face trying to bribe him with money, power or anything while he doesn't give a shit.
whatever homos
I remember it was something like this. The show definitely told you he wasn't ultimately the good dude he first seemed.
Really not sure why this is being denied in this thread. Just call the creators atheist materialist israelites or whatever buzzwords and move along. Why try to justify it in universe as opposed to just calling the writing pozzed?
>Why is this thread being so hostile
>answer
>homosexual replies with hostility while sucking wieners'
it's a mystery
>hostile *to this point*
Well, show us. Show us where in the show it is said that the guy got into religion just to exercise power. Show us one scene where he is faking his religion, taking something his religion says nobody should have, behaving selfishly counter to his religion’s beliefs, or where he is doing anything other than exercising leadership in a religion he actually believes. You can say he enjoys exercising power, sure, but only in the sense he believes the Gods are true and that it’s his order’s charge to keep the world holy on their behalf. He is a bit sadistic in this regard, enjoying punishing people so much, but the satisfaction he gets there is simply not enough to make him a faker and a selfish power-seeker, because he is genuinely acting on what he believes is an ontological truth of the universe - the orders from the Gods
I’m serious, I think you and the viewing public made this whole hypocrisy/dishonesty angle up because it’s a common complaint about religion, but that idea is genuinely not in the show.
well if you want to act like a manlet baby child then i'll explain things on that level...
notice how jaime and tommen have already shared an important moment, THEN the high sparrow arrives and tommen is dismissed?
that's the shows way of screaming at you that jaime/tommen are meant to be sympathetic heroes whereas the HS is a monster
archetype of the HS both in the books and the show is a wolf in sheep's clothing
if he was a good character he would have gotten a sendoff or a last dig in on cersei...
they vanquished him like a monster
he tried to play the manipulation game with cersei and found out how that goes...
marjorie made the exact same mistake so she died likewise
Yes, he's an antagonist you fricking moron, which isn't the same thing as being a hypocrit or a liar. He's not larping, he genuinely believes it.
Also "marjorie" is not how you spell it
Cersei didn't out manipulate him, she beat him in a wholly impossible way because the plot demanded it.
Because that's not what was being portrayed at all. They're taking power but, you know, they literally HAVE to if they're going to be enforcing religious edicts. And they're only "bad" because it's interfering with the nobility's degenerate, hedonistic lifestyle and bringing them down. If he just stays as a nobody in rags wandering the streets, the religion goes nowhere and he can be murdered at any time by Cersei.
He wasn't a good person but his reason for not being a good person is not due to some ambition for rulership. He wasn't a good person because he was enforcing an incredibly hard line and conservative religion that advocated for dehumanizing and torturing people for their sins. He needed power in order to enforce the religion but he's never shown as wanting power for its own sake. There's not anything in the show that would make us think that he wants to actually be like a king for example, and to have to govern and administrate.
>Bad behaviors carry punishment
>Oh, and no buttsex. Ok?
Help, help, I'm being oppressed.
>Bad behavior is whatever I say is bad and all punishments should be equally severe
Low IQ take
>at best he just wants to be the pope to the kings
Right, because Popes have historically been completely and utterly apolitical.
The Knights Templar, whatever happened there?
Templar were going full gnostic and bending the "no usury" rules a little too far. Of all the things the papists did it was right for them to put down their rogue military order.
why do you respond when you clearly dont understand what de jure means
>He wanted to win the game of thrones as much as anyone.
And he shall win it because he was pious.
I really hope he plays a larger role in the books and he is turned into yet another schemer, whats really compelling about him is that he is actually a very religious man sick of everything.
That’s what I hope, too, and as a good, decent humble man in Westeros, he’s destined to die horribly.
The point of this character was
>religion = bad
That’s it
This plotline didn’t happen like this in the books
>The point of his character was that his piety was just a mask. He wanted to win the game of thrones as much as anyone.
This isn't true at all though, there's nothing in the books to indicate this. What makes him a threat is precisely the fact that he DOES genuinely believe in the most extreme parts of the religion and Cersei (because she's a fricking idiot) empowers him.
This. He’s just another guy who wants power and to enforce his will. His piety can’t even be defined nor does he have any idea what the god’s will actually is, he just ignorantly follows a moral scripture to the t without thinking critically.
>his piety can’t be defined and nobody knows gods will
In a cosmic sense sure but in a religious sense, no, a religion does define piety with action and ritual and the religion does state the desires of the Gods, in an eternal sense
You’re just saying you don’t believe sincere religious authority is possible, which is fine and very believable, but if a religion can be true or even a good course of action then this can be an honest application of power
No I’m saying there’s not even a clear definition of what is pious and what is not. Just because a religion has written it down doesn’t mean that it’s correct, he thought he was pious by carrying out a sort of justice in the name of gods. But there’s literally no way to know what the god may or may not want, and I’m sure god doesn’t need our help or looking after considering god is omnipotent. Face it you guys are defending him because he’s a guy people don’t like, and these days around here it’s all about simply being as contrarian as possible to annoy as many as possible.
>But there’s literally no way to know what the god may or may not want
homie its written in the holy book
I understand what you’re saying but I’m pretty sure heir religion does have doctrine and dogma and the ability of men to serve as champions of a god. Not all religions are Protestantism, plenty of religions to flatly say piousness is allowing God to empower you to act on his behalf.
>what even is being pious maaan, therefore High Sparrow bad
Getting really esoteric now, hm?
Yes a man who acts ruthlessly and smugly on shaky grounds he cant fully grasp is indeed bad
God told him that he needs to do those things, so no, not bad.
God did not tell him anything sir
The God in this story does communicate with people though. And no it's not as simple as "oh he just comes out in full view of everyone and speaks plainly" nor does he immediately smite the heathens just because you say that's how it should be. The God chooses to work through men's hearts and let them make their own choices whether that be for good or evil.
He’s a threat because he refuses to play the game, because he’s a true believer. That’s why he is murdered in such a fashion, to warn any other true believers against taking a stand.
How does the show shows that his piety was just a mask?
apparently no one is allowed to truly believe what they're preaching and any effort to increase the ability to enforce their beliefs and spread the word further equates to desiring only to get power for themselves and hypocrisy
>Lord Bateman, tis THEE who wishes to win the Game Of Thrones?!
The entire arc was sloppy and drawn-out.
They forgot Lannisters and Cersei were villains… just because
Because he's slightly hypocritical which is far far worse than being a murdering raping degenerate parasite like the rest of the characters.
Contrarian meta. Ignore this thread.
if I was in game of thrones I would do everything in my power to impregnate Sansa Stark.
Goddamn, Sophie Turner in earlier seasons..
>Why?
He was a parasite.
I liked him.
The seethe when he kills all the dragons will be hilarious. What a legend
Probably the dumbest moment in that entire shitty book. I can picture fatman, or his assistants, thinking to themselves
>shit, there are way too many dragons left and this whole plotline is really long already
>I know! The peasants are so scared of being killed by dragons that they kill all the dragons in kings landing
>they just zerg rush till all the dragons are dead, no care for their own mortality even though they are supposedly motivated entirely by their own mortality
>oh yeah also the last strong boy dies too because we need to tie that loose end
God what a terrible story
What book?
fire and blood
Jesus? More like a snake.
>Why did viewers hate this guy?
He's a homophobe and there is literally nothing with sucking and fricking wiener and cramming it up your butthole.
He shamed another man's crust. And that's one thing that can't be forgiven
I think his arc was great, the lady in red was way worse as a religious fanatic
The average Joe would also be imprisoned, tortured and humiliated but we never saw much of it. Without his hypocrisy he wouldn't have the support of the people
Oh no, he's hopelessly biased against the poor monarchs that previously weren't beholden to anyone!
why should i be beholden to the headcanon of insane zealots who believe in 7 fake gods?
Because there's more of them then there is of you homosexual, if you're gonna live by Might Makes Right don't cry about it when it backfires
>previously weren't beholden to anyone!
Correct. Except for God himself.
Which they ignored, so enter the High Sparrow
He'll end up being a Targ loyalist in the books and therefore based.
>religious character exists
>with no provocation or evidence, ‘he must be a hypocrite!’
What makes people think this way? It’s literally not in the text or script at all that he’s a hypocrite, that’s just your go-to
I literally explained why in my post
No, you didn't. Just because he wants the religion to return and do well doesn't make him a hypocrite or have anything to do with the game of thrones except even putting an end to it.
My point was there's no way he actually enforced this equally throughout the entire city. If he did there's no way he would've had the support of the people. It's just not realistic
>nobody in history with popular support by the public was homophobic or against extramarital sex
You moron. Historically peasants got shit on all the time for not following religious and moral guidelines while the feudal lords got away with it, weich the High Sparrow even specifically points out.
In general I think priests and lords looked the other way unless it was a good move politically. I remember reading that back in the 13th or 14th century Europe the churches were so overwhelmed with confessions they had to speed up the process for forgiveness.
If everyone was tortured, imprisoned and humiliated noone would've gone to confession
>If everyone was tortured, imprisoned and humiliated noone would've gone to confession
Most confession just ends up with the priest telling the person to do just pray and reflect on why they did this or that sinful act. This litigious shit where if you frick up once and are doomed forever is a Protestant thing, Catholic and Orthodox faith is more akin to a treatment plan for sin and the priest are doctors prescribing you proven millennium old treatment plans for it. Even when you die most didn't really warrant going to hell, they went to purgatory for an extended period of time before going to heaven. Even Richard the Lionheart who was fully cleansed of sin by going on Crusade still had to do 33 years in purgatory according to biographers of the time period.
>The average Joe would also be imprisoned, tortured and humiliated
i think they'll accept that if they know the rich were no longer getting preferential treatment
>basically as close to Jesus as I've ever seen on TV.
What did he have in common with Jesus besides being religious?
IRL they would love him because general public follows slave morality and they instinctively hate "the 1%" - the nobility
but within the show they were attracted by the superior master morality and virtues and the nobility, so they hated their enemy
The show specifically makes "the people" out to be stupid fricking cattle that just go along with whatever the reigning monarch wants or whoever gave them a cool speech last. They'll line up in the streets to fling shit at Cersei's enemies the same way they did to her when she was dragged through the streets as punishment, they don't fricking care.
That's not true at all. It's the opposite, the monarchs feed the mobs quite a bit since they'd riot regularly unless appeased.
>It's the opposite, the monarchs feed the mobs quite
>mfw Joffrey goes up on the walls and takes potshots at beggars shouting "I'm not a baker"
All this guy's shit is pseudohistory and made up lmfao
"dionysian" like that wasn't what the peasants he hated were lol
>Why did viewers hate this guy?
>close to Jesus
You answered your own question.
The character uses his authority and public support to essentially buckbreak the oppressive, greedy, decadent scum who rule them.
He is considered bad because he punishes said awful nobility for crimes like homosexuality which is a no-no in modern lense. add onto this the frame of the show from the point of view of said awful nobles and suddenly the rich lannisters are no longer villains but victims of starving peasants in the eyes of viewers.
He also just, you know... won
so show-writers being the hacks they are ended the entire arc on what I will say is THE most bullshit contrivance of the entire series.
>He also just, you know... won
>So, in fact, this is not a humiliating defeat at all, but a rare species of victory.
The writers were just following the script with his victory over cersei.
they just straight up didnt know how to go forward from this point so their solution was to literally blow everything up. just erase the whole sparrow uprising arc (and the tyrell plot while were at it), kill everyone in the most convenient way possible because thats the only way we can justify cersei becoming queen and make this plot simpler for us morons to write.
I'd like to call it the biggest hack moment of the entire series, but surprisingly its not even that.
>the only way we can justify cersei becoming queen
It justified Cersei getting revenge on the Sparrow but in no way becoming queen. The bigger bullshit was that everyone was completely ok with her actions and suddenly fine with her becoming monarch. When really, the whole of King's Landing should have rioted (which they love to do) and called for her head. Cersei should have 100% died soon after that. But they forgot about her death prophecy anyway, which was also something that constantly drove her paranoia and irrational hatred of Tyrion.
imagine someone blowing up the pope and vatican palace and then declaring themselves the ruler of the vatican city and everyone was just ok with it
With the current pope at home? I wouldn't bat an eye and anyone with any sense wouldn't either. You reap what you sow.
Based Cato enjoyer
This was a cool scene
Have any of you read the books that came after the show ended? How did the writer end up finishing the story? Was it as bad as in the show?
GRRM never finished the books cuz he wrote himself into a corner
>How did the writer end up finishing the story?
You're a funny guy.
He never finished the books, he decided to invent a bunch of characters and had Varys prop up a pretender child claiming to be the legitimate son of Rheagar who was spirited away before the mountain smashed brains. This pretender hires a mercenary army and invades in a joint operation with Dorne. The show cut this brain dead storyline and just had Dany finally invade.
This entire storyline is needed to give Dany a viable threat, otherwise she would just stomp the great houses and be queen. It's actually the most important twist for the end game and removing this plot was fatal to the show.
Grrm is a classic r/athiesm neckbeard that never grew out of it
>he was...le homophobic christian!
That's it. That's the kind of subtlety that ~~*Benioff)) and ~~*Weiss*~~ can pull off
I felt like he was written in the show as an atheist's depiction of what a radical religious leader would be like
Because he was an evil larper. He was next level marjery
>disliking homosexuals is... LE EVIL
Well there's that but its more how he smugly went back on his deals and said the monarchy could be fine......................................if they continued to submit to his rule. He was all on board with continuing the trial until the end when he realized he was in shit, that's when the mask slipped and you saw he wasn't a real theist he was as worried as the rest of him. You can't chalk this up to "everyone gets scared when they die" because in the same series many characters with real convictions are shown to be stoic until the end, so it was a narrative decision.
Cersei did nothing wrong.
>monarchy could be fine......................................if they continued to submit to his rule
Yeah dumbass, he did what was clean was his goal, gain power for his religion and his peasants
>that's when the mask slipped and you saw he wasn't a real theist he was as worried as the rest of him
What the frick is this even supposed to prove
polcels are desperate for a daddy to look up to and need it to be someone they can craft a victimhood narrative around so they latch onto spergs like the sparrow who enabled psychopathic nuns and followers to abuse people
The sparrow himself was formerly a man of material excess, so all his antics are hypocritical, and he turns a blind eye to the flaws of his followers in the pursuit of chasing power. The only reason he ignored Olenna in
is because her offer was a power play and he thought he could get anything he wanted without her. He might not have personally wanted to snort coke off prostitute's asses but his obsession with power was certainly not selfless in nature.
If he was really pious he would recognize his impending death and accept it knowing he would have a proper afterlife. You get guys like dickard and his dad being chads in the face of a dragon burning them alive and somehow this all godly pope frick quails at the thought of death when his fellow prostitute-manipulator type clues him in on what's going on.
I'm not a /misc/ack and think you're wrong
>The sparrow himself was formerly a man of material excess, so all his antics are hypocritical
He specifically says himself that that's what he was before he lost it and now chooses to not have any possessions. You're seriously grasping at straws dude, are you googling this and copy pasting arguments from forums?
>because her offer was a power play and he thought he could get anything he wanted without her
Citation needed
>If he was really pious he would recognize his impending death and accept it knowing he would have a proper afterlife. You get guys like dickard and his dad being chads in the face of a dragon burning them alive and somehow this all godly pope frick quails at the thought of death when his fellow prostitute-manipulator type clues him in on what's going on.
If that's your best argument, that's a huge reach. The creators showed that because he has always been in charge, showing him worried is building up that Cersei is winning, it's not supposed to show that he was a hypocrite all along, at no point did he make fun of anybody for being worried about losing or dying. Again you're really reaching, I think you just claimed something you thought was true, realized there wasn't actually much to support this and now you're stuck trying to win an argument on the internet by grasping at straws.
>at no point did he make fun of anybody for being worried about losing or dying
Actually he lectures about letting go of material concerns all the time, which he doesn't live by in the end. The entire point of his scenes with margery are to establish that they are the same kind of player of the game, that's why they build rapport and that's why at the end its her who tries to warn him. He plays it off in the normal way but then at the very end realizes. That's them together being the same player in the same trap suffering the same fate.
Its hard to miss its pretty transparent
This might be true, I’d have to rewatch
Yeah its visual storytelling that's why the final shots of marge and sparrow are them looking at each other, when a show does that its indicating they have a shared connection - which in this case is because they both pretend to be pious to secure power. You also see it in the complete change in his demeanor from when he is acting saying the trial will continue, vs his face seconds before the explosion. It's a well acted and well put together scene.
>he lectures about letting go of material concerns all the time, which he doesn't live by in the end
He says the lords and ladys shouldn't cling to their possesions as much, that has nothing to do with being worried about losing the game or dying. You're trying really hard to see this because you want it to be true.
Watch it again, the visual storytelling is obvious
What did they need for you, him to go "MY PLAN, OH N-"
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Yeah exactly, he's thinking "MY PLAN, OH N-". That has nothing to do with hypocrisy or being power hungry. You just want him to be that so you interpret him being foiled as him being a hypocrite as well.
You're wrong, good day sir
that really is a ridiculous way to end that feud
It's completely absurd that Cersei did this and basically had no consequences whatsoever and was allowed to remain in power for no reason. She had no actual claim to power with her kids dead and she would have been deposed instantly.
tommen was right there moron, it was a secret plan executed by dr frankenstein and his child slaves - everyone else thought it was a wild accident
gay uncle theory cucks all the evogay wannabes
also the fact that the most successful empires like rome didn't give a shit about gays, neither does the USA, the strongest empire in world history - neither did most of the nazis, Hitler personally knew and associated with gays without a problem
they're just haters trying to invent justifications for them feeling icky about gays
guess what we feel icky about fat people fricking too, no one makes fatties fricking illegal
>wild accident
exactly thats ridiculous, if Trump was in the whitehouse after being reelected and then there was some wiring issue and his bedroom exploded we wouldn't just think it was some freak accident we'd know somebody set it up
because you have the internet
in that scene the main competitor and all the potential competing nobles just got obliterated, cersei and her loyalists are the only living authorities for the people to turn to - and the most ardent normies opposed to her were also killed in the explosion
it would be more like if all of bush's opponents got killed in 9/11 and he winked like "don't worry i'll take care of you america"
Zoom zoom
people literally voted for bush and invaded a random country unrelated to 9/11 because they were mad and scared and you're saying I'm a zoomie when you weren't even there, kys
normies absolutely would have folded to cersei instantly
i just hope the book does it better than that is all im saying, something more like Cersei tricking people into siding with her again
>I remember it was something like this
Like what, he looked kind of worried as he was about to die? Yeah, clearly meint to show he is merely pretending to be religious, no other passable reason to show this. The reason people are telling you you're wrong is because you can only claim
>well he was only out for himself, but I don't remember why, hey why are you telling me I'm stupid?!
I remember the general arc of his story arc, I just don't remember the details. As i've said a billion times now.
And the arc involved him not being the guy he appeared to be at first.
I'm out though, really pointless arguing this with you. In fact, I think i'm being trolled and this is a "Sheev did nothing wrong" style thread.
see above
don't care to argue about miniutae I can't remember- which is different from not being able to remeber the general arc of the character.
If I watch the Godfather once and talk about it years later, i'll remember the arc of Michael's character but not the details.
I don't concede the argument, peace out.
> on't care to argue about miniutae I can't remember- which is different from not being able to remeber the general arc of the character.
Well dude I’m not trying to insult you or say religion is always right here, I’m just saying you really just don’t remember the show or the character and chalk it all up to ‘vibes’ and ‘general feeling’ that simply isn’t corroborated in the show. You literally don’t remember what the character did, when he did it, and how, and your only piece of evidence is someone else remembering he may have looked doubtful right as he died. Absolutely no hard feelings man, but look at yourself clearly, you’re saying you feel like he was a hypocrite in scenes you can’t remember because the vibe you got from him. However it’s just not clear in the show, he’s easily just a really competent zealot leader
In reality I think the real question the show asked, was would you be willing to live under religious tyranny for the price of them deposing the evil old rulers
>I'm out
No you're not, I know you're still reading this you b***h
>I can't remember- which is different from not being able to remeber the general arc of the character. If I watch the Godfather once and talk about it years later, i'll remember the arc of Michael's character but not the details.
And I'm telling you you are remembering his arc wrong, you thought that's where they were going and because of that had a wrong interpretation. I also doubt you actually fail to remember this arc as much as you claim, you just don't remember anything supporting your argument.
I liked him.
Do you think religious and moral people watch Game of Thrones?
The show did a terrible job of actually showing the power he wielded. In the books this guy had enormous influence over the people and his own standing army once he was given political pull. Scores of actual fanatical knights and agents embedded all over the place.
In the show, he’s shown walking straight into the palace and just kidnapping nobles with impunity because he has an escort of six morons with robes and billy clubs. We never see any indicator of his power, it is literally just him, walking barefoot and alone up to the queen herself and saying “time to get arrested lol” and NOBODY makes any move to prevent it. He’s infuriatingly untouchable for no discernible reason because D&D can’t be assed to actually give one. Jaime moves to straight up murder him and he’s like “Ah ta ta not so fast, I have 7 malnourished peasants nearby….”
Like where are the fricking guards? It’s moronic.
>But viewers hated him for some weird reason
Because he imprisoned Large Marge. People liked her and her spunky Gramammer
It was handled sloppily. But he was as far as I remember the path to hell is good intentions. So he wanted the faith to go back to being simpler. He also had it remilitarized. So even if he goes his whole term as High Septon doling out the wealth of the church and using his military to handle the nobles. The next guy won't, it's not set up to be perpetual goodness but just another fist pulling back. The small folk just aren't in the full brunt of it yet.
Remember when intelligence was the vital part of playing the game of thrones in the first few seasons? How every little move the characters made had a repercussion that even ended in a ward with several armies?
The writers sure as hell did.
Somehow Cersei the queen no one liked managed to stash tons of explosives under the biggest religious building in the kingdom and no one else saw it because she's the queen or something.
I'm just glad those fricking israelite showrunners got basically blacklisted for it
>Remember when intelligence was the vital part of playing the game of thrones in the first few seasons?
hah, no
>he was a hypocrite!
he wasn't though, he genuinely believed in everything he did
the faith uprising is a consequence of totally unchecked decadence and brutality towards the common man
in this scenario, the common man blindly follows the most radical opposition who will bring them to just this
the corrupt power structure (basically just cersei) then tries to co-opt the revolution by granting concessions which backfire because you cannot bribe somebody who is motivated by blind faith rather than cynical realpolitik
this then thrusts a religious zealot into power whose devotion to the religion is tyrannical and more oppressive than the corrupt nobility
"he was just le scheming for power" is a take you could only come up with if you were completely media illiterate, it's not the point of the character in the books or the show
This. He’s not a hypocrite and it’s not wrong to pursue religious authority within a church given you believe it.
An Atheist writes a succesful Zealot who actually clean up the street and corruption of King's Landing out of pure love for his religion is one of the best instance of subvertion I've read in the books.
G.R.R. Martin isnt that bad in writing other characters in this way. Like the entire story of Quentyn Martell being a subvertion of the Prince slaying/taming the dragon to marry the Princess.
I think GRRM, being that he wrote Stannis, is intelligent enough to know one good deed doesn’t pay for the bad, or rather, it’s not a question of Sparrow is honest or not, the question is will you accept living under religious extremism for the price of destroying the old evil dynasty. No way GREM just meant ‘religion bad sparrow bad’
Because everyone and everything after season 4 was shit.
It's so funny to me how the show randomly started to pretend Cersei is sympathetic at the end. She gets an easier death (even reunites with her love, Jaime! Forget that she never actually loved him) than many of the hero characters.
Compare this to when the books start Cersei’s POV and you realize she’s literally a schizophrenic
Yeah, I guess it deviated from that fairly early on with her seeming to more genuinely care for her children in the show, but it's still absolutely bizarre how this mass murderer who orders women raped and tortured gets handled with kid gloves in the end.
>Forget that she never actually loved him
Dumb meme, they were soulmates and cuddled in the womb
I'm not sure if this is just a showgay thing but it's extremely clear in the books that the High Septon is dangerous because he ISN'T a hypocrite and ISN'T motivated by greed or a desire for power unlike everybody else.
Cersei's downfall is a direct result of her trying to bribe him into submission and failing because he isn't motivated by personal gain but by blind, radical faith in a higher power.
He's a piece in the game of politics that has a massive following and can't be compromised or reasoned with because he rejects political gain.
That's literally why the fricking books set up the previous High Septons as fat, pampered hypocrites from the nobility. He's supposed to contrast those ones because unlike them he actually believes in the religion and does so obsessively. The books already show you how religion can be compromised by wealth and power lust and the example is NOT the "High Sparrow." He's the reactionary force to that.
>I'm not sure if this is just a showgay thing
this is Cinemaphile and OP is him from the show, go back
I'm sorry you only got half of the plotline so can't understand the character's intentions.
This, and it’s a shame people expect the character not to be written this way and to be completely compromised just because they don’t like religion
I could have fixed her
Also because he shaved off Cersei's hair before showing her naked which made her ugly.
And because he didn't let us see Margaery's bobs and vagene.
the guy literally died because he didnt understood the power dynamics and that made him not consider cersei blowing up the whole church.
what a terrible thread.
There's two real reasons why they're hated in the show.
1) the arc comes basically out of nowhere with minimal foreshadowing, so everyone is wondering where all these fricking zealots came from
2) their aesthetic is ass in the show
just goes to show, ppl don't actually want what they say they want. lying c**ts
He reminded them of Jeremy Corbyn.
Religion LE BAD is why reddit hates him
Nah nah nah, he was a bit of a hypocrite himself.