Webcomics - really, just independent comics posted for free (usually) online - don't attract the same traction and attention that independent video games and animation do, yet by all counts the latter two are far harder to produce and riskier ventures.
My personal theory is that its related to the once-a-week schedule a lot of more story-driven webcomics fell into. Stuff like Paranatural, Cucumber Quest and Poppy o'possum crashed and burned so hard they turned into (shitty) webnovels, while the likes of Gunnerkrigg Court and Ava's Demon have been crawling along like zombies for over a decade now with no end in sigh. Focusing on releasing a polished, colored page per week means you have a story that's paced like molasses.
Now all everyone reads are webtoons, and I suspect part of the reason for their better success is that you get more bang for your buck per release, as you aren't just waiting for a page per week but a whole chapter of sorts.
A lot of webcomics simply stopped updating or would go on tremendous breaks, to the point that a webcomic that regularly updated was enough to make it something "special". Look at how fricking dogshit Questionable Content is but it still gets threads here for every update, just because it has a consistent update schedule. Cinemaphile used to mock the everloving shit out of QC when it had more competition but now we have unironic threads about it. A lack of consistently updating webcomics killed their overall internet presence.
I think that's another big part of it, yeah. Sadly with the current internet landscape I'm not even sure if consistency is enough anymore.
Yep. The Cinemaphile archives are littered with webcomics that were religiously discussed with every update right up until "sorry, guys, I didn't make a buffer and now I am having muh mentals so I gotta go on a 3 month hiatus." RSS feeds are dead tech, no one is checking all of their bookmarks every day, and the algorithm punishes you for that break anywhere else. You lose all of your momentum if you stop even once.
>Cinemaphile used to mock the everloving shit out of QC when it had more competition but now we have unironic threads about it.
I still do, the threads aren't unironic.
They're just porn threads of the characters
>to the point that a webcomic that regularly updated was enough to make it something "special"
Kneel.
>unironic
We all agree it sucks, we post it to laugh at how clumsy and shitty his art/writing/transparent SJW pandering still is after doing it for 20 years
Most of the people who get into this medium are not experienced writers and they believe a quirky cast will run the strip itself. When they realize the bouncing off each other is repetitive the second phase is awkward romance which is a poor substitute for plotting. When that fails they introduce threats which are neutered because they haven't studied storytelling enough to plan them out. Possible detour into creator's personal fetishes/idpol. When/if that tires out enough paypigs, the creator goes to novel format despite still not having narrative chops. Then the strip goes on hiatus indefinitely and the creator either starts over with a new strip having learned nothing or quits permanently to get an actual job.
So what I don't get is, why have more webcomic artists not adopted a model similar to mangaka where they start off doing a lot of one-shot stories?
I've noticed the comic artists that do this are the ones that tend to get officially published. You can see this if you go to an artist with a portfolio website and they have a comics section.
So why did this, to my view, inefficient once a week update model take such root? The artist behind say, Devil's Candy is pretty skilled and can draw a pretty good manga mimic, yet she's still stuck with such a slow moving story. Manga artists in Japan, meanwhile, can crank out 30-60 pages a month.
>why have more webcomic artists not adopted a model similar to mangaka where they start off doing a lot of one-shot stories?
>So why did this, to my view, inefficient once a week update model take such root?
finances. Back in the day webcomics were made by some wagie who drew a comic on their freetime. Those that managed to make it a job have to also usually be a merch store
The manga artists who are doing 60 pages a month are getting a salary and can get assistants if needed. your better comparison would be a doujin artist.
You're basically asking why a lemonade stand isn't a franchise restaurant.
>Manga artists in Japan, meanwhile, can crank out 30-60 pages a month.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they have assistants that help on art, like comic strips often times do? You're asking why a webcomic artist doesn't have the resources and manpower than mangaka and comic strip creators.
I expect them to start up small. Only once they have some success can they afford to hire assistants. The guy behind Ruri Dragon made a short strip and was succesful, then made a longer strip. Perhaps he had assistants (before he got ill) but I never heard he had any.
Masakazu Katsura, as another example, had been hospitalised and then got success with his first manga, it would be unlikely if he had assistants back then.
>Only once they have some success
You mean "if".
Oh good..Laharl (blue cabello), and some one eye e-girl
>by all counts the latter two are far harder to produce and riskier ventures.
That's why. You have to really commit and know you're going to put in the work when you make a cartoon or game.
A webcomic seems easy, so people start one without being willing or able to put in the work.
>independent comics posted for free (usually) online - don't attract the same traction and attention that independent video games and animation
Because theyre less flashy and social media algorithms dont really push them as much as other stuff. And neither do people, the second any slightly noteworthy game is announced or released there'll be people talking about it, asking if its fun, worth it etc. When was the last time Cinemaphile had any posts or threads asking about/talking about some not stablished webcomic for example?(aside from anons posting their own such as in say /hyw/)
>the latter two are far harder to produce
All the mountains of absolute shit games spammed on steam would argue otherwise. Games arent hard to do nowadays that game engines are out and about. A GOOD game or a POPULAR game is hard to make but thats true of anything.
Also this. Videogames and animation are things that show to need commitment to make and not be shit from the getgo(not that that stops people either way), webcomics seem easy but then a few pages in you realize "wait, this is hard actually"
Those that succeeded did and the others petered out, which is all as normal, do you mean why aren't you hearing about any more being started? internet's changed old man
>independent video games and animation
>independent
Think about that anon. Think about how many are independent.
Now think about how many that are, and fail. Now think about how many that aren't, and still fail.
>Now all everyone reads are webtoons
So webcomics failed because webcomics succeeded? Just because you don't like it, and it's shit, doesn't mean it's failed. I hate modern cinema, and I think it's factually shit... but it hasn't failed!
>Think about that anon. Think about how many are independent.
I'm thinking of stuff like Undertale and Amazing Digital Circus.
>Now think about how many that are, and fail. Now think about how many that aren't, and still fail.
Sure, yet I can easily think of far more examples that get noticed and make money for their creators than I do webcomics, especially in this environment.
>So webcomics failed because webcomics succeeded?
I brought up webtoons as a successful model and then stated where they went differently. I should have specified clearer that I might the more conventional model of comics, though.
>Undertale
A whole one game.
>Amazing Digital Circus
A whole one show with one episode.
>I can easily think of far more examples that get noticed and make money than I do webcomics
Do you know why that is? It's because there are let's players and gayme critics. There are react streamers. There is a whole culture around repackaging the cheapest, easiest thing imaginable, an mp4 recording.
If comic voiceovers were both easy and didn't require both a good voice and the ability to have more than one good voice, you'd know about more webcomics.
You're just influenced by survivor bias. There are failures. Everywhere.
if the very final reveal of the comic when it was all super serious and boring was that the watermelon from the first comic was behind everything I'd forgive buckley
Webcomics didn't fail. They're still wildly popular and make their creators (as well as clickbait websites reposting them) a lot of money. They get passed around on social media websites. I could go onto Facebook or Twitter or Reddit right now and find webcomics. The frick are you even talking about? If you wanted to make a CAD thread just make a CAD thread.
Third post on the front page of reddit, 13k upvotes.
I have quickly grown to hate this genre of comic with a burning passion. Who is the target audience? Unremarkable in every way
If this is the current state of webcomics then they have absolutely failed.
>if it doesnt appeal to me in particular then its a failure
I think OP is talking about a webcomic in terms of it being a running, continuous series with a narrative and a reoccurring cast of characters. These two examples you've given are more like webcartoons. They're one-and-done strips, building up to a single punchline, designed to be quickly shared. It doesn't require any sort of dedication on the reader's part; they'll simply like or upvote this whenever it shows up on their feed, and maybe follow the creator on social media. Whereas with a traditional webcomic, you'd generally need to be subscribed to or otherwise keeping tracking of the specific site where the comic gets uploaded, and to keep up to date on the comic's narrative (if it has one).
Think of it like following a newspaper comic strip versus following a comic book. The first one is a quick diversion you come across when reading the paper, the latter is a longer, serialised narrative you have to actively follow. It's not a concrete analogy, since obviously there have been plenty of newspaper strips that have had a story and plenty of comic books which have comedic one-and-done issues each time, but it's the best way I can think of explaining the difference as I see it.
Comic strips used to be heavily narrative driven in the past as well. It just fell out of fashion, just like it fell out of fashion with webcomics.
There's no money to be made off them via ads, and spending real money for digital pictures will never not feel like a waste.
OP is talking about actual longform narrative stories, not boomer Facebook memes.
>Penny Arcade is now older than Garfield was back when it was first posted on the Internet.
Jesus Christ.
Not to make this an East v. West thread, but this does seem to be just a Western thing. Japanese and Korean webcomics are extremely popular and can and do lead to huge mainstream success (e.g., One Punch Man). It's just that once again the Western comics industry is so broken and moronic.
She just described Nightwing.
are you implying Willis doesn't know what he's talking about?
If you look for comics online, you can find 1/week 1 page webcomics of questionable quality, or you can find more manga than you can shake a stick at. Manga that's usually of professional quality art-wise, 10+ pages a week, and tells a story instead of being jokes along the lines of "dude, games, amirite?"
Because they're all worse than Stonetoss.
Which is just worse Electric moron (actual edge)
And this comic
I have a webcomic with a modest but dedicated readership, and I have to cop to most of the failings pointed out in this thread. Trying to balance real life with a consistent output is difficult, and the success of anything online depends on a steady trickle of new content. I'll go on months-long hiatuses at a time because of outside factors, and when I finally do get back to grinding, the payoff is fairly minimal. I love making comics, but the high effort/ low reward, and lack of leech-like Youtube repackagers that games and animation have means they just won't get as much traction. It's a labor of love, I appreciate those that do stick around, but I don't have any expectations beyond that.
nice blog, bro
you'll be a professional journalist some day
fr caring about things is so cap, on god.
>pls bite my effort-bait
no
They didn’t fail they’re stronger of a presence then ever, just simmering on the floor of relevance with vast scattered cliques of followers that rarely ever get to become visible above the rest. Abrupt cancelation just comes with the territory as the single authors behind a comic die or enter personal crisis or just lose interest. The quality of art in most any mentionable webcomic today is staggering compared to a decade agar to say nothing of the digital sketchworks of 20 years back.
Just look at any longrunning webcomic like Order of the stick or Twokinds and the digital aid tools make such a world of difference. When that gets mixed with a half decent story magic happens like in homestuck (yeah, yeah, laugh it up) or unsounded then everything is peachy.
Pic related is a polandball and it’s what I like to think of as a truly post-ip canon like scp and nfts (they still a thing?) If viewed as a collective Polandball accounting for artists getting donations for their ‘general craft’, the polandball community’s output is a decent little franchise all it’s own which would be unheard of in decades past.
Too many creators got harassed off the internet. Who wants to put up with that shit anymore?
Web 2.0 pushed people to consolidate on a few number of big social media sites gradually, and before long the only people going to dedicated sites for one webcomic were the preexisting, niche fanbases.
>crawling along like zombies for over a decade now
I take it you are not familiar with Outsider.
How did this guy keep a following for so long, it was never funny.
Fee like it was a combination of there not being as many options out there nowadays and that your Counterstrike friends sharing it. Gaming was also much more niche so there’s an aspect of “he gets me” even if that wasn’t accurate.
I think the actual fanbase grew stronger than the haterbase. Nobody gives a shit about Buckley or his relationship problems, or allegedly exposing himself to a teen. Those people will just read CAD because they want to see it do well.
I don't really understand what do you mean by "failed", webcomics are in better spot than ever. Now is the absolutely best time to be a comic creator thanks to Patreon, Webtoons etc. I mean, Webtoons are still webcomics, and they're 100 times more popular than shit like Penny Arcade at its peak. Times just changed.
They didn't.
Not a webcomic.
And it's sad how you place your trust in literal controlled opposition.
It's a webcomic.
Homestuck.
I miss Ava's Demon
video killed the .jpg stars
Webcomics were free entertainment that you could find online. They were popular because they were free, and online, and typically interconnected so you could find more easily. They also used up little bandwidth, at a time when bandwidth was limited (typically a hard cap per month) and downloading stuff was slow. It might take half a minute to load a webpage with a webcomic image on it, but when you think that it might take an hour to download a 20-minute video, this is a great deal for webcomics.
It's hard to say what exactly killed webcomics, but improved internet and the tend towards long Youtube videos probably did the worst. You could sit down and spend two hours diving through the archives of some old webcomic, or you could watch a 15-minute Youtube video or even through on a 2-hour video in the background while doing something else. Videos are much more efficient than staring at the screen and reading every page of a webcomic. Add to that free games you can easily get on itch.io, and you can very easily kill an entire day on dozens of different free forms of content without even touching a single webcomic.
These days, you also have mobile phones and free gacha games. Why boot up your computer and hunt down a webcomic website when you can just download another free game and play that literally anywhere you go? Most kids/younger adults are just looking for cheap media, and downloading an app from a mobile store is a lot easier than navigating to a website and reading through an archive. Hell, most kids don't even know how to use a website.
I prefer webcomics (I really like when they're good enough to get published and a physical release) but I'll admit that slapping on a Youtube video is a lot easier to do. I have far, far more Youtube channels that I browse weekly than webcomics, and that's assuming that the comics even update weekly.
>Now all everyone reads are webtoons
As for this, that's the accessability problem. Everything is centralized on webtoons, which means people who read webcomics can find other webcomics easily. You don't need to go to a forum or discord or something else and ask other people what websites to visit for other comics. You just click on the front page and find more comics to read. It works because other options shut down and having everything at their own specific website doesn't work as well anymore.
That's a whole lot of words for a template thread.
Behind every indie game or cartoon you see is a dozen failed projects that only the creator knows of. The amount of work needed for those to just be presentable is such that most will give up before they even publish anything, unlike webcomics which have a lower barrier of entry yet require just as much work.
>Behind every indie game or cartoon you see is a dozen failed projects that only the creator knows of.
It seems that with story driven webcomics there's a tendency to just focus on one huge massive project that lasts decades. Gunnerkrigg Court started in *2005*. Ava's Demon is now over 10 years old.
What I don't see is the opposite - creating lots of short one-shot comics like they do in Japan that tell a self-contained little story. Frankly would that not be much easier?
Search and discovery monopolization.
mostly google becoming a monopoly and destroying linking but there were dozens of factors
I would say one of the biggest is the drama, look at Order of The Stick for example, it stopped being about the comic, a 'community' of contrarians constantly provoking the author to the point where it ended up being a constant cycle of para-social abuse. Same is true for most of the big webcomics, it was about their personas, their 'lore' their drama if they did or didn't text a teenager (when they were teenagers) for sex, and no one cared about the comic itself.
Another huge issue was no realistic deadlines. They aped newspaper comics (god knows why) and tried to shit out a three panel or gag every fricking day. Then they got burnout, then they attacked their curious or well meaning fans, then the trolls smelled blood in the water and soon ALL traffic to their websites was only for the forums and filled with people fricking around and needling the fragile egos of artists who stupidly set insane deadlines for themselves.
Like how Youtubers had a crash after the multi channel networks (pyramid schemes) robbed everyone and fricked off, before that there were tons of websites you HAD to work with to get traction. All of them were run by scam artists. It's not that much better now. These shitty 'top ten' webcomic websites would push themselves and their cliques and friends to the top no matter how anyone voted, nakedly and transparently, and eventually became 'pay to win'. Not only this, if you wanted attention you had to waste your time doing commissions, contests 'guest comics' for the lazy big guys who would have whole weeks of 'guest comics' more and more frequently due, again, to self imposed burnout.
Finally, every single one of them wanted to be Garfield or Penny Arcade and would turn the whole comic into soulless commercialization and merchandizing along with tons of poorly thought out kickstarters for shitty webtoons.
Generally unless you really take off or have some other avenue of income most just stop because the creator simply grows out of it.
Alot of this. Webcomics are fun to do when you're in high school or your early to mid-20s where there's probably not alot of responsibilities in your life. That starts going out the window when dayjobs become more demanding, relationships, family or health shit randomly popping up out of nowhere. Alot of people who do webcomics started it out of enjoyment of the craft but wind up burnt out when it doesn't actually go anywhere down the road. Sure they had fun making a story or crafting some pages but there will be that eventual point where they realize they're probably not enjoying it anymore as life kicks their ass.
Especially now it's ten times harder to get people to try a new webcomic. There's tons of competition, even worse being Tapas/Webtoons forcing people to be reduced to the shittiest format to just get a molecule of views on their sites. It's a very high risk/low reward scenario with webcomics, you're probably gonna grind it for years and it goes nowhere, get some traction after those few years or in some stroke of luck get eyes on your first/second year.
I do feel bad for people I see get burnt out. Seen webcomics that have great artwork and decent plots but wound up dying cause the creator had life get in the way or low views couldn't justify the amount of effort being put in.
Yeah, if you were back in the early 00s and had maybe a few hundred readers you were pretty content specially if you were hosting your own forum. Competition was lower if you could even call it competition at all a lot of those guys would regularly tag in for each other so web comic...ing kind of felt more like a creative community in some regards.
I more blame the new internet and social media for that. Felt like in the early to late 00s it was easier to find webcomics of different types just simply by typing in 'webcomic' on google.
Nowadays it feels more and more like if you actually want to get your work seen you'll have to make the most digestible shareable slop. It's becoming a trend where a creator will have some high effort work they do, gets no traction then they go back on a 'shitpost' idea and THAT's what gets things going.
I don't try to hate on gag-a-day format since there's a few even I like. Just gets grating with the amount people pump out and how fricking many of them just re-use eachother's jokes. The worst part being THIS FRICKING WORKS.
The problem you're talking about here is just the wider gradual centralisation of the internet. It's made everything worse, tbh
Seriously, remember when you could find personal fan sites for whatever shit you were into instead of brand safe corporate friendly wikis and reddits that will pretty much lash out at anything even vaguely critical of the brand. I swear for as bad as this shit hole has become it's still one of the last places on the internet were you can actually call a bad comic bad without a bunch of drones downvoting you.
No instead this site just shitposts about either culture war stuff or schizo posting if it gets more than 1 mention a week for 3 months.
Since marxists decided to shit up every mainstream form of entertainment, that's the only thing to discuss.
No one has ever come close to mathcing 8bit theater
Webcomics didn't fail, Cinemaphile just stopped talking about them because it wanted to culturewarpost instead
the constant Jannybanning didn't help
What is the greatest webcomic of all time?
The order of the Stick
According to TopWebComics, I guess it's technically twokinds, which never updates and somehow the author is the brother of Markiplier... and was famous before him...
>Now all everyone reads are webtoons, and I suspect part of the reason for their better success is that you get more bang for your buck per release, as you aren't just waiting for a page per week but a whole chapter of sorts.
Well, plus it's consolidated into a single app rather than going across dozens of webpages or Tumblrs.