What do you gain from such baseless contrarianism?
 Shopping Cart Returner Shirt $21.68 |
 DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
Shopping Cart Returner Shirt $21.68 |
Why does?
What do you gain from such baseless contrarianism?
Shopping Cart Returner Shirt $21.68 |
DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
Shopping Cart Returner Shirt $21.68 |
Not saying its hot garbage, but it could've been MUCH MUCH better.
>There is really only two chapters about the hotel attempting to redeem the sinners
They should have aimed for 12 episodes, like my Japanese cartoons.
this reminded me about death parade and now im sad
It's entertaining but it's not good. You know that, I know that, everyone knows that.
Pretty much this. It's like one of those deviantart webcomics from the early 2000s that became a cartoon. And I used to entertain myself with that shit back then.
It entertained me. Being a piece of entertainment, it has done its job, meaning it is good. It's really that simple.
This.
I'd rather have something flawed but entertaining instead of something "perfect" that you aren't allowed to criticize like ATLA.
That is a crazy ass cope, You must live in a different reality.
>Hazbin Hotel fan: I prefer things that suck.
Cool, most people prefer a well written story over an ADHD explosion of music and colors.
What you're trying to say is that you can actually discuss HH instead of having blind reverence for it because it's something everyone on the board grew up on.
I wonder how much the discourse will change in 5 or 10 years when people who were fans of shows that aired when the internet was already a big thing come here. ATLA managed to just barely hop on the train of being a show that didn't have tons of people all over the world discussing and nitpicking it online. But at some point, there will be a point in time, a year X, where every cartoon released in the 20 years prior to that year X had been nitpicked and discussed online. Nothing will truly have blind reverence at that point because everything had been nitpicked. Would be interesting to see that.
>HH
heil hitler?
HH BROTHER
>aren't allowed to criticize
People criticize ATLA all the time when threads about it are up.
Not in the sense of "wow this is actually a hot pile of shit", granted, but people picking apart some of the relationships, romances and plot logic happens.
What a weird dumb dodge. No, it's this simple: ask yourself if you would be satisfied if this was the standard level of quality for the medium. If the answer is no, it's not good. You can enjoy an Ed Wood film without insisting he's a great auteur.
It’s painfully rushed. The characters have barely had time to breathe. The only one with significant development is Angel Dust. I enjoy watching it and the songs are good but the world building leaves to be desired. I’d give it a 6-7/10.
Yeah it’s even mid by the standards of someone who thinks this culture/style is good. I’m a NORMAL person who tried to finish it fricking over 8 times and I turned it off every time because it was making me sweat bullets of cringe.
A "normal person" doesn't turn a cartoon off and on eight times in a row because it makes them feel awkward. Once, tops.
You can’t read my ironic tone. I didn’t expect any better but now I expect you to tell me I’m being Schrödingers douchebag or that I’m backpedaling.
>This is the situational awareness of people who like Has been
Maybe I WANTED to like it. Maybe I’m happy animation careers have a place on YouTube. It’s not good
>I'm a normal person
anon...
shhh, anon, let him cook
>It’s painfully rushed. The characters have barely had time to breathe. The only one with significant development is Angel Dust.
It feels like a lot of stuff was cut. Notably Charlie's strained relationship with her dad, which they removed all but completely but left the foreshadowing in for some reason. Possibly Viv had her characters very well defined in her head and her pitch bible but forgot that in the end they only amount to how they're characterised on screen.
I can’t believe that 5 months passed from the first episode to the end of episode 6.
I feel like if things weren't cut so short the story is implying that we would have gotten:
> a scene where Emily and Charlie are getting to know each other, are becoming friends
> more things explaining the difficulties in Charlie and Vaggie's relationship
> scenes showing the Hotel residents becoming better friends
> more interactions between Alastor and Charlie specifically, him attempting to make Charlie trust him more
Thats because AD is the clear gay character. Viziepop would never have angel dust be a woman and Valentino her pimp. Nah it has to be a fricked up daddy dom situation that also includes male rape by a pimp. Why? Cause it appeals to all the queer autists who think ppl not accepting them is SA. Notice how no straight person is really vying for angel dusts destiny. Even vaggie and Charlie are played as normal, but ppl dont talk about them because they're fairly normal and not horny frick puppets fighting and fricking all the time.
I'm fine with the gays if women would just admit they like gays as much as men like lesbians.
This.
Everything's moving way too fast.
Needed twice as many episodes to give existing set of payoffs to have a satisfying build-up, and space for further character development and worldbuilding.
Also, the quandaries raised by the show's central premise - redemption of the damned - has been examined only on the most superficial of levels. I'm not sure if that's due to the breakneck pace, the incredible naivety of the protagonist, or the stupidity of the writers.
>The only one with significant development is Angel Dust
Angel Dust is just as underdeveloped as the rest of them. We have no idea what he did to end up in hell. We have no idea what he needs redemption on. The show never actually treats it like his drug and sex obsessions are bad. Its only bad because he is being raped and exploited by a pimp. Then, he learns that hes not super special because he's in deep shit and makes a friend. A friend who is a raging alcoholic and gambler but for some reason objects to Angel Dust doing drugs while he, himself, is drinking a shitton. Angel Dust then is shown to moderately care about the maid demon. It has never been established that not caring about other people was a flaw of his when he explicitly cared about Charlie in episode 4. He didnt really improve on anything, he didnt develop in any way. Show treats this not only as development but even suggests that Angel Dust should be in heaven when he has not changed in the slightest.
Show is not really about redemption but rather about how heaven is hypocritical and sinners like Angel Dust are not really sinners but should be in heaven in the first place.
>We have no idea what he did to end up in hell
He was a mafia member who killed a lot of people.
That is not explicitly stated in the show. And we dont see him apologizing or doing anything to make up/redeem himself from that.
I thought this was mentioned in the pilot? If I’m wrong, my bad.
I dont remember it from the pilot but you may be right.
I think it's the concept art lore, not pilot. There's basically no mention of anyone's life on Earth in the pilot.
I think Mimzy talking about knowing Alastor before they died is actually the first mention of anyone's actual past.
Oh… in that case… the premise of the show is falling flat for me even more if we can’t even know what Angel really did.
He doesn’t even show remorse for what he did in his past life, or talks about it.
This isn’t something for me to grapple with
That may come later, at the moment Charlie is fighting just to even have heaven accept the possibility of redemption. The process itself will probably be the plot of future seasons.
> Charlie is fighting just to even have heaven accept the possibility of redemption
She didnt really show anything though. Angel Dust did not redeem himself from what landed him in hell in the first place. Just because somebody has some good qualities doesnt mean that they should not be damned, Hitler apparently liked animals. What Charlie needs to show is that the souls in hell can actually overcome what landed them in hell in the first place and she does not do that in episode 6.
Angel only regrets being chained to Val as far as the show has depicted. He absolutely enjoys all the other fricked up shit he has done and is continuing to do.
It's so frustrating. You'd think discussing their human lives would part of their redemption therapy or something.
>Character says frick
>Kids think this is absolutely hilarious
>be Cinemaphile arrested development
>never grow a desire for anything more than dumb ad sequiturs
mamy such cases here
i think it is just a problem with media literacy. the thing is that they're crass demons and not polite at all
it feel so childish.
It feels like watching Mlp but with random vulgarity .
Somehow I don't remember the pilot beeing like this, or at least not to this extent.
The pilot is generally agreed to have had better writing, visuals and jokes.
By what metric? I turned it off 8 times. It’s cringe
Yeah but it's better that it doesn't try to be anything profound
The last two episodes were really disappointing. Heaven was such a damn letdown.
Also this
I really liked Vox/Alastor's song though.
>charlie is now straight
>adam and pentious are not killed off in the last 2 episodes of this season
>lucifer is now 6'2
I fixed it
But you'd still have the pacing
Charlie shouldn't be straight because she needs to frick Emily
So true fellow straight white American male
>lucifer is now 6'2
you ruined it
>He can give himself any form he wants
>He remains a manlet so he can has his face at breasts' level of his Amazonian queen
Was it worth it?
I mean, that's totally what I would do
is now 6'2
this is the last place I would have expected hatred of short kings
I just started caring by Ep 6.
I give it a 8/10. Songs are bringe, the story and characters are quite good. It does feel rushed but the main setting (the hotel itself) can make up for later. They swearing too much but Alastor is peak character design. The Alucard of Cinemaphile
>Alastor is peak character design.
Opinion discarded.
I will only accept the ending if Sir Pentious gets into Heaven and Adam becomes the bellboy of the hotel
That joke makes no sense since Alastor is canonically aro/ace
>rushed
>plot is bare thin
>very tame version of hell despite the show being an adult animation.
>some characters don't exist for any other reason than marvel quips like Husk and Nifty
The show isn't bad, it has the makings of something good on paper, but once again give a kid money and watch the stupidity fly. It's very clear that the room did not have writers, its probably a giant tumblr piece written in Vizie's 10th grade notebook. It's being held together with duck tape and string because of voice talent and a somewhat general interest in the designs and mannerisms of certain characters, but overall it's "plot" comes off as very "and then this happened, and then this happened, and the day was won"
This shit had 4yrs to bake. You can watch the pilot and season 1 back to back and it comes off as if it were only months apart in development.
It's not good compared to the pilot which was waaay better. She really just let her ego get in the way of things and thought she made the pilot by herself, shouldn't have gotten rid of everyone.
How is the pilot better? The show seems to be an objective improvement on almost level except story pacing. I can get it if people come to this conclusion after watching parts of episode 1, but not if they get halfway into the season.
The characters are more consistently drawn. Many look better in terms of art style, especially Alastor. The songs are bangers for the most part, with most having these insane duets etc. Layouts are better, the pilot had a lot of basic perspecive issues for example when it came to a lot of scenes. Both shows have scenes with janky animation, for the pilot the worst animation is worse than the worst in the show proper.
The colour design is better. Composting. Sound effects/sound design, I'm not seeing people complain about it as they would with the pilot.
Because it used to be a fun charming indie thing.
Now it's some weird monster.
its like RWBY: the animation, character designs, and music is fun on its own. but the writing holding it all together is so bad you cant enjoy any of it
Because complaining is fun also it's the best way to avoid getting sent to /trash/
Lute is a cute
I don't like all the swearing and violence stuff, it would be great if it wasn't for that
Who are the people coming here to make these threads? This can't even be her little crowd of ass kissers on twitter anymore since she abandoned them to run off to threads. The amount of people I know who watch and love Helluva Boss even tell me the show isn't as great in comparison.
I can admit when I'm wrong and it's true, it's good. It's giving me the Disney musical fix that Disney has been failing to deliver for years now
I will admit there are good parts, I will not admit it's good. Poorly written and blatantly blasphemous. 5/10.
i enjoy it, but it's falwed as frick
The writing isn't very good nor is the show funny. I'm not sure what the show is trying to do. Vivzie said she said she was inspired by shows like South Park but she doesn't want to offend anyone so the show has no teeth despite being set in Hell.
she had offended people with good taste
I've been totally honest about my take from the start, for better or worse.
I loved the pilot, the animation, music, and vocal performances. I don't love all the characters, but I fell in love with Charlie in two seconds flat, (not $50k's worth, but she's cute as a button), and the dynamic/free animation style and musical aspect just works to make her all the more adorable. By extension her optimistic character, underdog status, and apparent impossible mission, made the premise immediately interesting.
Unfortunately, most of this has been undermined in the series right from the get-go, and increasingly so. You get a few moments that actually live up to the premise to some degree, but never quite reach the full promise of the pilot. Like Charlie forgiving Pentious, and Alastor acting creepy/badass/cool. The characters I don't like/care about have been magnified with pretty meh results, (I don't give two shits about Angel Dust except maybe in terms of him being eventually redeemed by Charlie, but hate that it's the one thing Viv isn't rushing through). I like new characters Vox, Velvette, and Lute is getting interesting, but the rest are kinda meh and just more shit to rush through at best, and annoying at worst. Was looking forward to seeing shit like Lucifer interacting with Charlie, but he turned out to be pretty lame.
The musical numbers are generally okay-to-good with a couple of misses in there.
Bottom line: I want to like this more than I actually like it, so I'm desperately clinging to the good characters, moments, and crumbs of the pilot premise we are still getting here and there, but the pacing and meh-to-bad aspects, (and frankly stupid decisions), are really making that difficult - especially in the overall picture. Even if I quite like an episode, that shit is still leaving a bad aftertaste in my mouth.
this, except i'm a little more charitable towards its flaws because i didn't have the highest of expectations in the first place
If Hazbin Hotel is so good, then explain to me in detail what Vaggie's post-Pilot characterization is supposed to be, or what conflict the series sets up for her.
You'll quickly notice the show spends more time presenting her as a tsundere drill sergeant than giving her anything substantive to do.
>Vaggie is pointless
Truuuuuuuuuue.
Everyone hates Vaggie. Weakest of the main cast, and she and Charlie should break up because they've got nothing going.
B-b-b-but Viv says they share a bed off screen! So much character depth...
>everyone hates Vaggie
...I like Vaggie
Why? She's the most boring character.
I dunno, I think she's a nice complement to Charlie as a partner. She's assertive where Charlie would be timid, she pushes Charlie where she needs some pushing, but she's more pessimistic and Charlie helps alleviate that in her. I just think they're a good team. I like that there's more to her than we thought at first. Like she's not the single most outstanding character but I like her.
Why do you need our validation for something you like? What do you have daddy issues or something?
Its alright...but all the singing crap and drama rather than just embracing cartoon brutality can make it feel like a wanna-be disney flick rather than something I used to watch on adult swim. Vizzie needs to go down the more humor route again, lately she's letting her overies do her writing
>more humor-oriented
Agreed. A lot of things could be forgiven if this show was funnier.
I feel like this show wants to be everything. It feels aimless. It wants to be a wacky lowbrow cartoon, an emotional character-driven drama, a disney musical, an expansive world with a huge cast of characters, interconnecting plots, deep lore and twist villains/heros. It’s a mess.
People say it just needs more episodes to be filled out, but I feel like Vivziepop needs to scale shit down.
I'm wondering if this season would work better if it was an episodic, client-of-the-week affair in the vein of Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends.
That’s what I thought it was going to be tbh. The first season just be about rehabilitating various sinners but instead the idea of the hotel gets shot down in the first episode so now it feels like an afterthought.
That’s the perfect way to describe Adam’s character.
Frick, I should’ve save the paragraphs I wrote in previous threads so I don’t have to do it all over again.
But I guess I will so people like you can shut up about saying that people who like it are simply contrarian or a bigot.
Give me a bit.
Okay, here we go.
>Viv sold out.
Now, I’m usually one to try to separate the artist from the art, but due to Viv’s actions, elements of her show are suffering.
>She immediately went for Amazon without a second thought.
Due to this, she was given a smaller window for episodes than she would have liked. And instead of downsizing on her story, she attempts to squish as much of it in as she can and so this results in pacing issues, lore dumping, story moving at break-neck speeds, and a rushed feeling. She is not able to adapt and she is too arrogant to change course.
>VA Changes
Okay fine so they needed to be unionized in order to join, but I thought Kovach was the only one who was against unionizing? In the end, she still didn’t needed to be a dick towards them when she dropped them.
>Songs and pacing.
As I mentioned before, pacing issues. This made episode 1 abhorrent to me. Pacing got better later on but overall, most of the songs feel so forced and abrupt and sometimes they are used simply to just dump lore rather than tell a story that flows.
The only songs I liked that actually felt like they fit were Poison, the song that Alastor and Vox had, and the song between Angel and Husk. This shows that this show also being a musical COULD have fully worked, but Viv was unwilling to adapt.
>Poison
Made me very uncomfortable at first but that was the point, so I thought it was well done, especially when fans who were victims of SA praised the episode and that particular scene.
But then I found out that the person who made it literally fetishizes and gets off to rape. I mean, I won’t take this away from anyone who loved it but I personally don’t think I can fully something that was probably just another rape porn animation for the sicko who made it.
>Cussinf memes
I see why Viv got… particularly furious over the cussing memes. Because they ended up being true, especially when Adam got introduced, holy shit… (1)
>Due to this, she was given a smaller window for episodes than she would have liked. And instead of downsizing on her story, she attempts to squish as much of it in as she can and so this results in pacing issues, lore dumping, story moving at break-neck speeds, and a rushed feeling. She is not able to adapt and she is too arrogant to change course.
Thiiiiiiis Why not make the story simpler and cut down on the bloated cast, instead of sprinting through the story.
No second season threats.
(2) I assume that Viv’s intention was to make Adam annoying, and she unfortunately did too good of a job at that. Helluva was already beginning to suffer from too much cussing as a replacement for actual humor, and this show kicks it into overdrive sometimes. It’s just… not funny. Even the worst family guy episodes are funnier than that.
>Alastor, Adam.
Alastor going from an absolute badass in the pilot to a rather cowardly lackey in a cowardly friend group was a bummer to me. But as of the latest episodes, things are making a little more sense now. People are saying that Lilith is in control of Alastor, and I agree. It’s been established that he is under someone’s control. But why is it Lilith? Why else would he go to the hotel immediately after returning from a 7 year hiatus? Why is he trying to become Charlie’s father figure and is having a dick measuring contest with Lucifer? He tried to play it off as hanging around and see what kind of chaos would ensue, but then why allow Charlie to mostly get her way with decision making and show some genuine care?
Some of his actions do suggest that he may just be there to stir shit up anyway, but it’s clear that he has a purpose here, and that he has been ordered to stay at the hotel. I guess we’ll know for sure soon.
However, that doesn’t really explain why he is just acting like a lackey around the other overlords. Doesn’t even bother to assert dominance even once. Is he like this by default? Or just trying to not chase trouble so that people don’t catch on to his current purpose? Or was he ordered to not stir shit up? Idk, But the problem is, that’s only drawing suspicion.
What’s the point of telling that one egg dude not to tell anyone about the angel’s death with the wienery girl from the V’s is gonna tell everyone anyway? She clearly has the intention of starting a war with heaven and leading the charge. The other council members should kill her…
(3) If the Vs retaliate, who cares? The other demon overlords can just kill them… right? Wouldn't that be a better alternative than all-out war with Heaven which they are trying to avoid?
As for Adam, again, way too fricking annoying. But now with the 6th episode, there seems to be a deeper reason for why he is even still in heaven to begin with, and why all the angels are so clueless about what gets people into heaven. This is by design by I would assume to be God. So I’m gonna hold my tongue for now and see how the finale finishes stitching things together, because for the first time, things are finally starting to make sense and feel interesting in this show.
>Pussy jokes
Okay okay we get it, ADAM! Also, wasted opportunity for Vaggie to change her name, changing her name to something of her choice would be so in character for her, but instead she just gets turned into the butt of a joke.
>Death Angel Designs
We get it Viv, you liked the Purge films.
>New VAs.
Okay, used to be a bigger complaint, but the new VAs have mostly grown on me. Alastor’s voice is still missing that original charm, but it will do. Hate what they did to Katie Killjoy. Vaggie’s VA makes her sound very boring and a mumbler.
>The hotel doesn’t even matter anymore.
Literally this, the hotel has barely gone into actual use and so far only two members of the cast have tried their hand at actual redemption. The hotel is just a glorified movie set at this point and it’s usage wasn’t was I was expecting from the pilot. The premise has changed. Instead we are now getting a drama musical about an impending war with heaven. Which… doesn’t necessarily mean it can be a bad thing, I just hope that there’s a good payoff in the end.
Pilot was way better and used less musical numbers.
>musical numbers
That shit is filler/exposition dump deluxe.
Yeah, it's why I hate it they really dont need the musicals but insist on using it.
it's not. the only thing i like is the animation, and even that is ugly at times.
>ugly at times
Not just that but- as much as I like the backgrounds on their own, the scenes end up looking really cluttered against the already busy character designs, especially the hotel lobby area.
Don't you know that everyone in Cinemaphile are award winning designers and writers? It's just the way of things when something is popular.
Okay Vivziepop
This is why people bully hazbin hotel fans.
Don't you mean Cinemaphile? Cinemaphile ain't people.
Uh huh…
Alright. Do tell me when Viv's winning tons of awards for her writing, character drama, and comedy?
I don't dislike it, but I feel like the show is speed running the plot. It seems they said," We got funded for one season, we have no clue if we'll have another, let's blow it all while we have the chance." The other problem I have is it feels like they are short cutting character growth and motivations via song. Take more than anything. They basically resolved lucifer and Charlie's issues in two minutes. Her daddy issues and lucifer's hang ups about his subjects being shit, heaven being buttholes, and genuine desire to protect his daughter from what he has been through deserved more than 1 song.
What was the point of emphasizing the rivalry between vox and alastor to the point it needed its own musical number. Are they going to do anything with that?
Because we need more pointless anime rivalries for fan fiction
In season 1, Vox is going to control Adam and the Exorcist so they can conclude the Vox and Alastor rivalry with a pathetic bang.
Damn the exorcist seem pretty weak. It’s amazing they got this far convincing everyone they’re a threat.
No. It’s because they are wearing Vox made masks that allows him to puppet them into making stupid successful exterminations. Since he is a ruthless punk and Adam isn’t.
can you please stop pushing your shitty fanfiction? Thanks.
Is this a new form of autism? I noticed a lot of people in fandom can’t discern theories/headcanons from actual canon. It’s really annoying
this show really brings all the aspies out of the woodwork for some reason.
What is even canon about this show?
…honestly, I don’t know. It seems a good chunk of the lore is scattered across 500 live streams.
On one Livestream, Viv hints that the masks alter the minds of the Exorcist.
I just pay attention to what's in the 6 episodes and not worry about 5 years of tidbits revealed in podcasts.
>The schizo fanfic anon is still with his theory
The show is better than I thought it would be and I'm big enough to admit that, but the pacing is horrifically fast, the hotel doesn't matter at all, and only a few of the songs are actually good.
6/10
>touching hands
how heretical
I know, right? What bawdS!
Because it's not. Viv has no idea who to write Broadway. The whole thing should have been a musical. The songs kill the pacing and story progression.
Is it true this show is getting 3 or 4 seasons?
Probably more, shits really profitable for Amazon
I was hoping for a real answer.
Vivzie said she hopes for 5 seasons minimum. I Jeff Bezos grant her even more, happy?
Got cha’. Just wasn’t sure what has been confirmed or not.
For HH, it’s three.
HB is five.
Source for three season confirmation?
Oh God no. Not at least two more seasons of Stolas and Blitzo will they/won't they and divorce drama and vilifying Stella. Can't handle that dumpster fire.
I stopped caring about HB's story 2 years ago.
Second was already confirmed, it seems to be successful enough that I imagine Amazon wouldn't be against more, just not sure if they can keep a plot going, and keep getting broadway stars if they want to keep it going as a musical series.
Okay so only a 2nd season so far, that’s all I needed to know.
I have no clue how they'd stretch this out to 3 seasons. All the adverts says "check into the hotel"? What do you mean??
The Hotel setting/premise is basically IRRELEVANT to the plot of season 1.
>The Hotel setting/premise is basically IRRELEVANT to the plot of season 1.
Well remember, the show has been percolating for five years. After all this time the writers are tired of the hotel concept and want to tell NEW stories with these characters and setting that the rest of us have never fricking seen before.
Season 1 should have been their initial attempts at redeeming people. Not tons of conflicts, plot points, and interpersonal drama all crammed in.
Viv is a fricking idiot, there is no other way to put it.
I think that in the modern era of "everything gets canceled after 1 season with all their plot threads left dangling" they wanted to make sure they told a complete story by end of S1.
"Let's frick this up quickly before the network gets a chance to"?
Then don't make your show 8 episodes long... those old days shows were over 20 episodes long
Nah, you can tell that Viv was scared that this thing wasn't gonna get another season, so she put everything she could into this one just in case
It’s because they didn’t know if they will get another season or not. So they wanted to fulfill:
>An epic and completed Alastor and Vox Rivalry.
>Getting a redeemed Sinner, Sir Pentious landed in the spot.
>Adam and Lucifer, the sinner daddies, and how they will changed by the outcome of the redeemed sinner, since they both lost hope in Sinners long ago.
>Angel Dust and Husk stuff.
>Getting a redeemed Sinner, Sir Pentious landed in the spot.
Anon, I...
Yes. But now it's extremely bloated.
I think Adam and Vox were meant to be long-term season 1 and 2 material (time frame, 6 months on each season). Where Vox and the Vees were common antagonistic forces in the episode, while Adam was the impending doom day that is concluded in season 2. Then it’s revealed that Vox was the mastermind behind the entire operation instead of Adam, meaning that in extermination day, Vox would be at his highest seat of power yet to finally conclude his rivalry with Alastor.
You can see this in episode 1 when Adam‘s once-a-year exterminations was changed to every six-months to justify the stupidly rapid pacing of events. Faster reveals (IE who killed the angel) and quickly establishing almost every single important/relevant character in each episode before the finale (Rosie/Lilith, Mimzy, Emily, Sena, that episode 3 family, Lucifer, Adam, Lute, Sir Pentious, Vox, Val, and v-girl).
Was Sera banking on Charlie not bringing up the exterminations? Charlie's entire ordeal is going to heaven to provide an alternative for exterminations, did she expect her to not bring them up? Granted Adam did instead of her
Yeah, a lot of character motivations are plot driven rather than logic driven. It does make Sera look moronic.
Well personally I get a sense of personal satisfaction.
Because if this juvenile fantasy of a loose white girl with daddy issues got massive critical acclaim and was popular with anyone but teenagers I would get a bit depressed and feel even more like an outsider to the world than I already do.
But since Vivzie is such a frick-up, I can just laugh along at the mess this fundamentally childish cartoon ends up being.
If anything her being such a failure made me stop being jealous of what I perceived as her success, so now I don't even hate her as much as I used to 🙂
>If anything her being such a failure made me stop being jealous of what I perceived as her success, so now I don't even hate her as much as I used to
She is probably raking in millions from this,a non.
But she's getting old so she can't flaunt it
>If hell is forever then heaven is a lie!
Then surely you have no problems with Val being redeemed no? What's a rapist to a mass murderer
that would be super ballsy and cause massive reeing on twitter. lol
>>If hell is forever then heaven must be a lie, if Angels can do whatever and remain in the sky!
>Adam kicks Vaggie out of heaven and Emily is threatened by getting kicked out of heaven.
These song lyrics don’t even work in the same episode.
>Then surely you have no problems with Val being redeemed no?
Yes, given infinite time even the worst of people can be rehabilitated. That doesn't mean their victims have to forgive or be around them. It just means they shouldn't have to suffer for eternity or get murdered. That's the point of the show. Good job for understanding the philosophy of the show.
>That doesn't mean their victims have to forgive
It's actually emphasized in Christian scripture to forgive but only if the offender genuinely apologizes. In the end, you're not condoning the wrong or acting as if it never happened but simply letting the resentment go.
>Matthew 6:14, 15: "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
>Ephesians 4:32: "And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you."
I don't get where in those passages it says that. It says you should forgive others unless you yourself are flawless. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", etcetera. It acknowledges that no man is without serious flaw, and people should reflect on their own imperfections to be more understanding of those that wronged them.
It doesn't seem to say anything about apologies, apology or not the true christian will forgive just like he wishes himself to be forgiven.
It's about how you would sin against God and then genuinely ask for forgiveness in prayer. God would forgive you and let the offense go. However, if instead now another person sinned against you directly and then genuinely asks for forgiveness, it's expected that you follow the same attitude that God has when he's dealing with your sins towards him. Otherwise, God would be disappointed in you.
at least you're morally consistent. Half the shows following would blow up on twitter if this happened
Wrong. Truly shitty people can never become good people because of how unrepentant they are in their shittiness.
Even truly shitty people can change their minds, that is the whole of the show's premise anon. That the idea that being good is something you can work towards.
None of the people in the show are truly shitty because Viv is a coward, and refuses to depict a character that’s just a genuine monster beyond redemption.
>genuine monster beyond redemption
Forgetting about Striker, Crimson, Barbie, and Stella are we?
Barbie gets off the hook because le sad and sympathetic backstory, much like her piece of shit brother.
>Stella
Literally forced in our throats in order to make Stolas look symphatic
Stolas, despite being portrayed as cute and sympathetic, is one of the most hateable characters in HB next to Blitzo. He’s so selfish that he’d rather put his own daughter, that he supposedly loves and cherishes, through tons of emotional anguish just so he can frick an Imp.
That got retconned anon. The daughter is a homophobic abuser if she wants her soft uwu gay dad to stay with a rapist abuser who bullied him from the very start.
>daughter is a homophobic abuser
Nice try Stella's brother.
Your parents' divorce really fricked you up, huh? Stolas's b***h wife was an abusive b***h who put a hit out on him. He was fully justified in leaving her.
>post powered by RetCONs.
Stella did nothing wrong. If your spouse cheated on you with someone you saw as inferior, and made a mockery of you and your family, you’d want them dead too. Season 2 is Viv going pants on head moronic trying to justify her yaoi fanfic ship that completely ruins the whole show.
>If your spouse cheated on you with someone you saw as inferior, and made a mockery of you and your family, you’d want them dead too.
No, I'm not a homicidal moron.
>lies
t. Stella
I would argue that Valentino so far has been depicted as a truly shitty person.
The point is that Charlie thinks that everybody and I mean EVERYBODY can be redeemed. She is an idealist. Now, you may disagree with her. But that is the rationale of building a redemption hotel in hell.
The problem is that the show wants to prove her right and wrong simultaneously. It wants to have its cake and eat it too. They want Charlie to be right but also be able to cathartically put the problematic sinners down.
Viv can’t even commit to him being a truly menacing monster of a person because he’s still shown as an idiot or incompetent, which sucks out all of the menacing attitude he had.
Well, I think there is a deep philosophical argument here about whether effectiveness truly makes a person worse or not.
A classic example is the case of a drunk driver. Is a drunk driver who ran over a family inherently worse than one who missed the family by pure luck (he took a right instead of a left and ended up on an empty highway).
Or, imagine that a terrorist puts a bomb in a building and the bomb, by a malfunction, never goes off. If the terrorist were more competent, would he be morally worse?
Mitigating factors exist for a reason.
Right but we are talking about morality here, is a mitigating factor such as your action not having much, or less, negative impact, really enough to make you morally better when that factor was due to pure luck? We typically want to hold that the morality of our actions somewhat depend on our intending to do them.
wasn't angel a crackhead gangster? And the snake was also involved in a lot of bad shit as a trying Overlord.
Viv copes by saying Angel was never apart of the Mafia despite being the son of a Mafia leader, since she doesn’t want him to be too awful by being a murder.
And this is why the show will never conceptually work. Viv is too much of a pussy to actually portray someone genuinely awful as both deserving of redemption and actually redeeming themselves in the end.
>Too cowardly to have faith in your show to get more than one season
>Too cowardly to want to give genuinely shitty people redemption as it will way more effort to make them earn it
So she is an ideas guy
I thought we all already knew that already
Also the way she ducks out of any hard questions like saying "uhh minors just...disappear if they die....so no heaven or hell for them they just vanish...."
"Uhh...hitler....and war criminals.....anyone undeniably evil like that also disappears"
also refuses to elaborate on Alastor's choice in murder victims when he was alive
>minors disappear
>vaggie condemned for not killing a child
Is this true or are you predicting she'll change his background? Seems unlikely since Angel is so adept with guns. Also, Vaggie did actual genocide and is, probably, going to be forgiven by Charlie.
It’s true. She said on streams before that he was never apart of the actual Mafia.
It’s okay because everyone Vaggie murdered didn’t actually die for real. Sinners that get exterminated simply become a part of Hell and its architecture.
I would absolutely love to see that
>Val gets raped by Nifty
Being serious, Hell in this show is already too good for the sinners. The only reason hell is even helish is because the people there suck. Lucifer was right about his people.
Chuck's dear old dad Lucy is a shining example of this, but because the argument is done in song, no one has time to question it because the next verse is going immediately after it's said.
Adam and Lute have done nothing wrong.
>Lucifer was right about his people.
This is literally a show where Lucifer and Adam agree on everything about the sinners.
> no one has time to question it because the next verse is going immediately after it's said.
Yet they want to care about the false flag of “Adam doesn’t deserve to be in heaven” when Emily immediately tries to rebel against Heaven.
Adam is a disappointed father in the worst way possible and Lute is the “evil-step mother” of humanity and Vaggie. Strawmanned super hard to try to make the literal homosexuals and rebels look good.
If we go by Islam and some Apocryphal traditions of Christianity-Judaism, Lucifer literally rebels because he thinks that humans are shit and he is the best creation of god.
Hazbin Lucifer doesn't think all humans are shit, he's mad at sinners for how they abuse his gift of free will
Kek this artwork caused such a shitstorm on twitter. Granted didn't help the creator said Angel probably liked it
Kino. Shame it'll never even happen, would be awesome to see Adam flex on Lucifer.
I hate twitter so much and the fact that it is still to-go site for fanart
Twitter, and the entire wider fandom, would shit their pants because they need to have their irredeemable bad guys because nothing is more cathartic than justified self righteous anger. It is why anime makes bad guys so incredibly unlikable, so that you feel good when they suffer horrible fates.
If Viv DID do that, It would be genuinely based and ‘MC having consistent morality’-pilled
Well, if Val or anyone for that matter is considered beyond redemption, then Adam is completely justified in his cleansings. What's the point of redemption if its only for a select few
The frick is this all or nothing bullshit?
That is the point of redemption anon, everybody should have a shot at it. That is the whole point of the show, that the denizens in hell, who already fricked up all their redemption opportunities, can still be redeemed because there is no expiration date on redemption. So yes, either everybody gets unlimited chances at redemption or nobody does.
Yeah but see, the only problem with Adam is that he is indescriminate. If he only just killed the problematic people, he would be a good guy and a hero.
>a hero
Antihero, maybe.
Maybe Viv can make a compromise by having Charlie actually give Val a chance at redemption only for him to rather die than to take it. Something like Po and Shen at the end of that movie.
Here's one. We get our big triumphant moment of Angel escaping him... then nothing. He's neither killed nor redeemed and he isn't conventionally punished because he didn't break any rules.
His punishment is the blow to his ego when he realizes he's lost the psychological control he once held and Angel walks away. Next time we see him, he's not making the same kind of money without Angel and word has spread so he can't get any new stars to sign with him in that capacity
I feel like that's the easy way out. With
idea have Val apologize when he has hit rock bottom and begs him to come back and then AD accepts his apology but won't come back because he's living a better life and feels actual happiness there.
I like this, but to tie it together?
After this talk, don't show Valentino again.
Let the audience decide whether or not he could walk a path to redemption or become a good person
i genuinely wanna see something like this. at worst shows that center or at points would center around redeeming characters will redeem people that have just killed people via murder, accidental, whatever. but a rapist? never seen it.
val would be a great test for charlie, to see if she can really stick with her ideology. and, in a way, would be a great test for (most) of the viewers if they agree with charlie's ideology of redemption.
I feel like the audience isn't ready for that kind of litmus. Maybe start with a murderer/gangster character who deals in actual realistic violence or something first.
Do the trick where it's silhouetted but picked up by sound design.
Val would have to show genuine remorse for his actions first, and go out of his way to seek out redemption.
What’s the deal with the cat key thing.
This show would be great if they kept Viv far away from the writer's room. You can tell that every imperfection and contradiction is coming from her
Hire someone funny, a competent screen writer, and a continuity coordinator
I hate the style
So what was the snake's crime to condemn him to hell? Snake oil salesman?
Probably rode a steampunk warmachine into a city and killed a bunch of people in a fit of autistic rage.
We won't know since he's getting killed off, it's so fricking stupid that they're killing off major characters before touching on their backstories at all.
He’s going to be killed off and defeat Vox in the process.
My headcanon:
>crazy Tesla-like inventor
>but with even less money/recognition and even more asocial/misanthropic
>was manic and paranoid about the government spying on him
>was building advanced weapons in his basement to take over the country
>died from one of his failed inventions exploding in his face though
is also acceptable
>My want to cum inside Cherry Boi hunter is slowly increasing
Maybe I should start saving CB pics
He was the head of an indian tech support scam.
does he lay those egg boys?
He probably made them in a giant test-tube
I love Alastor….
>he posted part2
Kek watch the fireworks unfold
It is very surprising to me that people in twitter like this show considering it is the same crowd who maintains that abusers cannot get better and that you should cut all toxic people away and divorce your partner if they ever make the most minute mistake.
There's a bunch of people b***hing about "vivzie-poop- and "owning the pro-shitters" , you'd think they'd be able to see the contradiction in "no one deserved hell" and "specific people deserve worse than hell" . What if one of the characters was racist and lost his prejudice overtime?
cont?
If that means account here https://twitter.com/StarBoy3006/status/1752030717763313804?t=8WJprKMYZ9t_xFsxpzk53g&s=19
cont as in continue
All he drew as of now, said he might continue it
For all the shit Cinemaphile gets its one of the few places where media literacy isn't completely dead. And you don't have such moronic takes as "giving Val a likeable personality means justifying rape"
> And you don't have such moronic takes as "giving Val a likeable personality means justifying rape"
Are you new here? Not saying that this happens all the time but this is Cinemaphile. Some people do like rape here too.
Holy shit the replies. They are sad Valentino lost his #1 prostitute. You know, for all the shit Cinemaphile gets I think twitter might actually be worse. Or maybe its because I expect them to be better and they dissapoint, I dont know.
I've heard it described best like this
>Cinemaphile had wojak for years without issues. Twitter had wojak for a few days before starting a meme race war.
Twitter is more likely to start shit than any other site because they take both what they interact with and themselves way too seriously
Twitter became stupid extreme Cinemaphile with a block button.
Nah, it became stupid extreme everything
So Cinemaphile? It’s legit worse than trash.
cute
>Thread is made to simp over characters
0 critiques, complaints or hate for the show
>Thread is made to discuss the show's quality
Everyone calls it the worst thing in human history
This is how you know something is enjoyed and anons are just crying for attention in threads made specifically for bad attention.
You know anon, it might just be because people like the characters' designs but do not think the show is actually good. Crazy concept I know.
Just because you like eating up shit doesn't make it not shit. That's just called having self awareness.
I see the Velma fans are trying to shitpost as hard as possible.
I want more episodes of Angel Dust getting abused in S2
Same it makes me diamonds
It's entertaining the same way Amphibia was. People knows it's not good, so they don't have real expectations towards either of them, and this makes it enjoyable
It's not bad but it's certainly not good either. It's simply okay.
>inb4 Lute was such a hardass to Vaggie and about her relationship with Charlie because:
>when Vaggie used to be an angel and was being a badass exterminator b***h she made Lute's nipples tingle
>but she knew 'teh gey is le bad' in Heaven so she cast Vaggie down to Hell at the first opportunity to rid herself of temptation
>Lute doing Frollo shit basically
>they used to be BFFs in Heaven, hang out, and have fruity pillow fights that nearly ended in scissoring
>that's why Vaggie felt so betrayed and is so depressed
>why she really doesn't want to go back to Heaven because she'll run into Lute again
>why she loves Charlie, because she was not only kind to her after she just got 'rejected' by her lesbo love interest, but could give her 'teh scissor' in Hell
>also why she's not impressed with Heaven having all the good shit like rainbow sprinkles and koalas, they also have anti-scissoring rules
... oh wait ... I'm assuming Viv is actually a half-decent writer. Silly me. Forget everything I just said.
nice fanfiction
>when Charlie gets Heaven to see their own 'le badness', they'll change their rules
>Lute will break down and admit her repressed dyke-love for Vaggie begging her forgiveness
>Vaggie will take Lute back
>Charlie gets cucked
>Vaggie talks to her and Charlie let's her go
>Charlie is sad and crying to herself
>Emily 'consoles' her
>looking down lovingly and playing with her hair like Charlie did when she met Vaggie
>shipgays have an aneurism
>series will end with everyone in Heaven singing a song called:
'There'll Be Scissoring In Heaven':
[Sera]: It took a Morning Star to bring us light
[Peter]: And showed us that there's no reason to fight
[Emily looking lovingly at Charlie]: 'Cos it's a love we all can share in
[Everybody]: There'll be scissoring in Heaven
[Lute and Vaggie]: And nothing can be wrong that feels so right
[Adam]: Well yeah okay that shit is pretty frickin' hot
[Adam guitar solo]
[Adam to Lute]: (You're going to let me watch right?)
>the rest writes itself
This got a good hearty giggle out of me anon I wish this was real
It's fine I just didn't expect it to be as Broadway as it is. Some of the songs are great but they take more time away from the episode than is necessary for character building. Not really a problem if you're going in for a musical but it is a musical first so as long as you know that it's a good show.
Musical is one of the good things about it.
It's true, it's just more musical than I thought based on the pilot. And in my opinion, which is just an opinion, it feels like we're wasting alot of time in a 22-minute episode on character development in a song that with semi-competent visuals you could convey in half the time. That being said it isn't a problem if you like musicals at all.
>contrarianism
People have been turning on it since the Digital Circus parody.
confusing direction, messy animation, rushed, lost charm of the pilot, an ok for third season away from turning into 99% gay melodrama
but it's enjoyable, and has good art
Because its mid. It could have been so much better.
For me it’s mid because it lacks focus, especially due to the breakneck pace and lackluster writing. Is it a story about redemption? War between heaven and hell? An inter-personal drama? Slice of life? The amount of speculation on what happens next (on every online platform) coupled with how much headcanon and easter egg hunt is present to explain what did/may happen only shows that the viewers make more of the story than Vivzie and her writers.
It also fundamentally lacks meaning. Why did Vivzie create it and for what purpose? Originally it was supposed to show the complexity and possibility of redemption even in the most improbable of circumstances. But now? Based on the latest episodes, it seems that the purpose is to show that there is no discernible difference between heaven and hell, but that undermines the entire concept of the Hazbin Hotel in the first place. It transforms a story about redemption into a struggle for power between heaven and hell- something which I think is much more shallow and one-dimensional.
Considering how rushed everything is, it's possible the last two episodes will make previous shit somehow all slot into place in a way that we realise we weren't having our time wasted, but I for one ain't counting on it.
Viv is a female version of Ken Penders. Unless we have a female version of Ian Flynn to clean up for the final act this is not going to end well.
Yeah, and on the whole "sacrilegious satire about heaven, hell, and redemption". It really holds back on actual punches.
Like "Heaven doesn't know the standard for how to get in".
They're in the position to take the piss out of the very concept of predestination and they aren't even gonna try.
Another problem with the “heaven does not know the standard to get in” is that the world of Hazbin Hotel clearly knows, at least theoretically, what heaven’s standards are. After all, Charlie has Angel Dust and Sir Pentious running scenarios (which shows that even a literal hellspawn like Charlie knows what these standards should be), hell and hell royalty are organised through the seven deadly sins (which shows that virtues and vices exist and play a role in the ethical system of heaven and hell) and ffs, even in the intro to the first Amazon episode, Adam and Eve eat from the Tree of Knowledge (of Good and Evil!).
So clearly, characters know what “good” and “evil” should look like. Therefore, if you want to critique these conceptions, you have to engage with them seriously, and not reduce the commentary to “Adam quickly scribbles a bunch of vague principles which are clearly not enough for salvation/redemption.”
I think it would have been much more compelling if they first established (through worldbuilding and character development) what these principles are, and then elaborate on why they are not enough.
I usually don't agree when a lot of things on here are called "safe edgy", but I'd argue Hazbin fits the bill at this point.
It's legitimately afraid to satirize religious concepts that were considered fair game for shows like The Simpsons and Family Guy over 20 years ago
They don't know the exact process and requirements. It is fundamentally inscrutable. They can grasp some of the most obvious factors, but they can't probably discern any form of nuance in it.
A lot of people might also have committed a sin that damned them to Hell that they are oblivious or ignorant about(apparently an illegal download counts as a reason to go to Hell). Which further fuddles the numbers.
>They're in the position to take the piss out of the very concept of predestination and they aren't even gonna try.
Predestination isn't a popular view within modern Christianity, so why would they? Just to say "Hey guys! This thing almost nobody believes anymore is dumb!! Wow look at muh scathing satire."
Full blown Calvinism isn't but the reconciliation of predestination and free will is one of the biggest theological questions in Christianity in general
why is there so much drooling in this show
Bad Facial Topography means the character designers need more drama in facial action to determine purpose.
>bad facial topography
Enlighten us
I think the episodes drag on for too long, half an hour is too much.
How would you rank the songs from episodes 1-6?
You Didn't Know>Loser, Baby>Hell is Forever>Hell's Greatest Dad>Stayed Gone>Poison>Respectless>Happy Day in Hell>
it Takes>It starts with Sorry>Welcome to Heaven
I don't know how I'd rank all the songs. Most of them are really good and have been played on repeat since airing, but Welcome to Heaven is definitely at the bottom of the list, by far. The next 4 songs could all be composed entirely of shit sounds and Welcome to Heaven would still be at the bottom.
Welcome to Heaven is a 100% worldbuilding song. It suffers from it, but the point of it is to give a quick overview on why Heaven is great.
I don't have an issue with the lyrics or pacing of it. It's just so fricking lackluster musically.
pretty much my ranking, Hell dad's contest would be S tier if Mimzy didn't fricking shit all over the ending
Agree. Mimzy deserves death by radio host hands.
Slight edit to tier list though. It's my first time using the site, didn't know how to add tiers.
IT"S ME! IT"S ME! I'm ruining these posts, IT'S ME! MIMZZZZZZZZZY!
I just finished the first 4 episodes.
I have my problems but it definitely isn't trash.
Alastors design is like my biggest complaint. While you can see the motifs in all the other character designs, he's the only one that seems off. He has the motifs but he's still not well designed.
I think people are being really chummy a little too fast but that doesn't stop it from being entertaining.
I even ended up feeling for Angel Dust. A character I hated and hate more now because holy shit do his porns hit my kinks.
Its also not as much cursing as people made it out to be. It's there but it feels the proper amount for the characters who use it.
It would be a solid 9/10 from me so far. But yeah Alastor knocks it down two points and the musical numbers, which I'm not usually a fan of, bring it up another point.
Get ready for the whiplash pacing of episode 5 which takes a 4 month timeskip
Honestly surprised about that. They didn't even telegraph the time skip. I only learned there was one from Adam saying they only have 1 month left.
It's just so startling
We're told all this character development happened without watching it unfold
They really dropped the ball there
We don't even actually explore the hotel and it never works because nobody else goes there looking for redemption
and yet even with just 2 months left Charlie is still trying to find ways to get patrons
But its not, its just okay. It being 8 episodes doomed it, should have been 15 or 20.
I bet the formula they had for this season was this.
Episode 1: Adam!
Episode 2: Vox! His power brainwash! Alastor wants him dead. Sir Pentious gets involved with the bigger narrative via Vox and the angel head.
Episode 3: Vee-girl and reveal of the overlords having the exorcist head (which has the mystery helmet). Vee-girl pushes the overlords to fight the angels, might be a trap.
Episode 4: Wank the Angel Dust and Husk for those fanboys. Also Val…
Episode 5: Throw in Lucifer and Alastor’s terrible lady friend.
Episode 6: Adam! Sus mask being extra sussy!
Episode 7: Maybe Vox! Vaggie made up with Charlie and Alastor cannibals thing for war.
Episode 8: Adam! Maybe Vox is revealed as mastermind! Sir Pentious dies to conclude arc, causing either Adam or Vox to die from Nifty. Ending war.
Episode 1-4 were very messing and the pacing was everywhere but ep 5-6 really brought me back round. I mean the pacing was still awful but they were more enjoyable
Will the helluva boss crossover ever see the light of day?
I legitimately think the crossover is going to be the last episode of the season.
What would Eve even look like?
Eve is Lilith
Some people just can't enjoy things or think yucking other people's yum is a positive personality trait. It's a sad life they live
Ourgirl Lute dropping redpills as usual
>Some people just can't enjoy things or think yucking other people's yum is a positive personality trait.
It's a positive artistic trait, you'd know that if you were self-critical enough of your own work to actually drive you to do better. The opposite attitude where 'all art is good art' is why we're getting all the shitty art we are now.
Yucking other people's yum is not a positive artistic trait, that's just shitting on someone's work. However, what you say about being self-critical, and open to critique, is. While not all art is good, all art comes from a place of creativity. An artist who is able to craft something, put it into the world for scrutiny, and take criticism well will become a good artist. Some "critics" however will just say "it's shit" and rattle off things about the art that they subjectively don't like. They're not critiquing the art, they're yucking the yum.
No homosexual, not how it works at all.
Passion is a result of extreme love of something with extreme hate for the opposite. Artistic passion comes from knowing exactly what you love and hate, and to ten decimal places. You're not just being 'muh critical' because you're a 'big meany', or due to personal tastes, as much as you just literally can't stomach substandard uninspired dreck, or tone-deaf idiots and bullshit artists praising it.
It literally gives you this reaction:
?t=5
You hold everyone to the same standard including yourself, because you care about 'the art' itself, not the homosexuals abusing it so they can jerk themselves off they're a 'le artiste'. So your reaction is not much different to picrel when someone says something clearly incorrect. Like if you went around telling people that clouds are made of cotton candy. It's going to trigger the science spergs simply because it's wrong. In art there are things that are just as clearly 'bad art'.
Some people not only don't have a creative/artistic bone in their body and don't belong in the arts, and especially industry, but they're totally artistically tone-deaf. Just look at all the homosexuals on 'American Idol' who actually believe they can sing, despite the judges trying to tell them that's not the case. They're actually trying to help them by telling them to give it up, not just pissing on their parade, or yucking anyone's yum.
?t=9
>Emma's delusional parents are convinced she can sing, so they could easily use the same argument and tell you to stop 'yucking their yum', and they'd be dead wrong like you.
Anon, I'm going to engage in this conversation in good faith despite the glaring flaws in *how* you're presenting your argument. Specifically the verbiage you're using that's an attack on me personally, and not the argument.
Yes, not everyone has the same artistic talent, meaning that, yes, there are pros that are just objectively bad at the arts. Emma was clearly nervous and out of tune while singing, and Simon was objectively correct in telling her she was
>out of tune and sang like a baby
He was also correct in telling the parents off *because* they have her blind praise. He could have been more diplomatic with his words, but that's not how he communicates nor did he superficially attack anyone (except Emma's dress). He bluntly went to the heart of what he saw was the issue
>she sings out of tune and she's not confident
Taking this back to yucking people's yum vs constructive criticism, *how* you tell someone their art or work is bad greatly impacts their response to it. Sometimes you need to be blunt *and* objective, because you know the person can take it. Sometimes you need to be softer *but still objective*.
Emma's parents have her false hope by not properly supporting that creative spark. They just told her
>Oh you can sing!
But they may not have taught her *how to sing confidently*. They may have raised her in a myriad of ways that shot her confidence and gave her stage fright. When they confronted Simon he didn't yuck her yum, he critiqued their parenting style. She wasn't doing something she clearly finds joy in and confidently expresses herself in that way. She was auditioning for a spot and she didn't make the cut.
Bringing this back to Hazbin Hotel, saying "it's shit I don't like it" is fine if there's some objective critique behind it; but saying "it's shit *and people who like it are shit*" is yucking the yum. You haven't said any of those in our conversation, so this isn't an attack on you. But there is a diplomatic way to critique.
I love the show but an actual critique I have of it is that the writers should have been more careful with having characters say "Jesus", "Christ", and "OMG", because they're dealing directly with Abrahamic mythology and those turns of phrase confirm that those characters (Jesus and Yahweh) exist inasmuch as they influence people's language, which means they're either real or in-universe fictional. It means they can't just tastefully ignore them if they don't want to use them.
>It means they can't just tastefully ignore them if they don't want to use them.
It really doesn't.
I would agree, that goes into the show's writing, which commonly feels subpar. There's a lot of swears thrown around, and, like you say, if people are using certain phrases that implies there's a history behind how they came about. If the writers are smart they'll find a way to competently incorporate them into the story.
However, I'm not that confident in their ability to do so, since I'm disappointed in their pacing. We only got 8 episodes and, as I've posted about before in these threads, we're moving at a lightning pace skipping over 5 months of character and plot development. I can understand a new show being a gamble and execs trying to negotiate the "most" that they can with as little investment as possible if they have doubts, but that's what I feel is the biggest flaw with the show. The writers *have* to cram everything into these few episodes and it all feels like a lot and like some lines of dialogue aren't given the scrutiny it deserves. Like having characters say "Jesus", "Christ", and "OMG" without thinking about the implications of their origins.
I have a niggle with Lute's characterization when she says
>Their love is vile and blasphemous!
I don't feel like she would call Vaggie and Charlie's relationship "love" if she truly believed it to be "vile and blasphemous"; I feel like she would call it "lust", labeling it a sin and telling the audience that she believes the two *should* be in Hell *because* they are vile and blasphemous sinners ("sinners" being used loosely because neither Vaggie nor Charlie are sinners in the technical sense since they are a disgraced exterminator and princess of Hell respectively)
Hot as frick though
This single scene has more caracterization in it than the whole rest of the show put together. The contrast between Lute and Adam's face in their consideration of forbidden love is hilarious. Plus I love how Adam begrudgingly congratulates Vaggie for landing Charlie.
Its his way of loving his "children"
Yeah overall it's a good scene, that's just me as a writer going "ooohh, if they just changed one word you could add so much more characterization to this person" but it is what it is
I'm glad you have more faith in the writers. I'm hopeful that this upward trend in quality continues by I'm trying to keep my expectations in check. You're right though, musicals do *a lot* of heavy lifting for their writing.
To be fair, this is Viv's first "real" show, so she has room to improve. And if we stay in this universe I want to hope that the writing and pacing will improve
If they kill off Adam, do not have faith in this show. Move on.
I'm here for Lute now, she's all I care about
I like that perspective. I'm a Disney Prince, grew up on that shit and listening to musical soundtracks like Fiddler on the Roof during road trips. I just wish it could be *just* a teensy bit better in certain aspects. But that's what I envision with the show, and it's not my show. So I try to pull myself back and appreciate what we've been given. I'm definitely impressed with what they've done in as little time they have. That's why I wish we had more so we could get more.
>if we stay in this universe I want to hope that the writing and pacing will improve
Oh sure. I suppose the difference for me is that I'm trying to consider the pacing in terms of a single 3-hour story, as opposed to a traditional TV show where we can expect to spend a *lot* of time with characters in much more individual ways. While HH definitely is a little overambitious with how many characters there are, your classic 90s Disney stuff (which Viv 100% was influenced by; she's only a few years younger than I am) had shitloads of characterization in like 80 minutes of movie.
I have more confidence in the overall writing than you do. I don't have the issues with the pacing that others do, largely because I'm viewing it through the lens of being a ~3 hour stage musical; musical numbers are actually very efficient at doing characterization and development in a short amount of time, imo.
Regardless, I would agree that the show relies a little too heavily on *coded* homophobia that may not be immediately clear to all audiences. Lute's dislike of Vaggie could be about the inter"racial" elements, but it's also heavily coded as homophobia - but it's relying on a lot of very specific knowledge about how homophobes talk to gay people, which plenty of people in the audience won't have experience with.
>musical numbers are actually very efficient at doing characterization and development in a short amount of time
While I think all musical numbers in HH are great. The problem with the pacing for me is that the musical numbers typically occur in places where the narrative should have a payoff. But these payoff moments have little to not buildup to them. The pacing is rushing to the payoffs and uses the great songs to try and emotionally trick us out of expecting a buildup to the desired payoff. When you think about the narrative beats of the story, things break apart immediately. We simply needed more time to get to know these characters better, their stories and the settings they inhabit. Instead, we are rushing to the finish with no room for catharsis other than great songs for us to marvel at.
>the musical numbers typically occur in places where the narrative should have a payoff
Well, yeah, that's where musical numbers go in musicals. There's some quote about it, I'll find it...
“The time to sing is when your emotional level is just too high to speak anymore, and the time to dance is when your emotions are just too strong to only sing about how you feel.”
Like "Loser Baby" and "More than Anything" are pure examples of that. If it doesn't work for you.. I mean you're not wrong to criticize it for how you react to it, but it's kind of just also what musicals be doing.
>The time to sing is when your emotional level is just too high to speak anymore
My point is that it is the songs that make the emotions high "artificially" rather than the narrative building up the emotions itself. The songs are payoff without buildup. And tbh I like my payoffs to be built up.
I'd have to have you give an example of which song does this; they all seem to do the normal escalation to me.
Nta but, like that one with charlie and the angel, like, we just met her, and the song tries to make an impact by making her sing with charlie... But we just met her, and in the same episode where it was reaveled the angels didn't know about the extermination was the same one where it was reaveled to them, by a song, ina really stupi manner, there us almost no buildup to climax moments
The one Lucifer sings with Charlie is a good example. We have spent very little time with these characters and have barely seen them on screen, especially Lucifer and very especially Lucifer interacting with Charlie. We have been told, very briefly, what their deal is but the way she convinces him to help him by guilttripping him with Alastor, even though Alastor is at the moment behaving in a way Charlie should find unacceptable, is just completely forced. Lucifer immediately caves in and gives Charlie whatever she wanted and this is something she could have asked for in episode 1. We didnt even see her get desperate, we are just told that she is. Did she expect sinners in hell to just magically get redeemed in 6 months? All the while they continue to engage in the very same vices they always have been?
Lucifer interacts with her daughter for less than 10 minutes and all her daddy issues, one of the two parts of her character, get immediately resolved, in one song.
I just don't see what there is to understand that you think would take another 40 minutes.
Lucifer took part in creating humanity, then had great dreams of what his creations could accomplish with free will, and was cursed to Hell to only see the *worst* outcomes of his decision. When we catch up to him, he is a broken, crushed man, who finds what is basically his last line to happiness in a chance to reconnect with his daughter. At first, he tries to accomplish this by offering to basically buy her affection, until he can't avoid the fact that what she *wants* is to accomplish what he was never able to. He at first refuses, and then, in song, they connect over a sincere shared dream.
Like I'm not drawing from outside materials, that's just what's in the episode. What more do you really "need" to understand the story? Sure, I would WANT more time with the characters, but it's not lacking the necessary information.
Its not about necessary information anon, its about actually getting an emotional payoff. Their estranged relationship seems like a joke when it can get resolved in 3 mins of singing. It wasnt really that serious.
The first reply to your post is a perfect example of why you're wrong to think there's a 'nice' way to tell someone their shit sucks, the same way there's no way to way to tiptoe around someone's religion. Something some Atheist cuck was pushing over a decade ago with what is known as the "Don't be a dick" speech, (and likely where that fricking line even came from in that shitty Ant-Man movie).
ie. Tell people their god is fake, and their Bible is a lie, but you know, in a 'nice' way.
Sorry, there's no 'nice' way to tell someone their shit sucks, and if you watch shows like American Idol for long enough you'll see judges run the full spectrum and still get the same reactions. Emma came back by the way, more confident than ever:
?t=4
Clearly there's no way to tell her she sucks. She can't hear it herself, and everyone in her family is apparently tone-deaf. Meaning it's literally impossible for her to ever improve. As a result she's doing nothing but wasting everyone's time, (including her own), with her ridiculous delusions. It has nothing to do with confidence or whatever other excuses and bullshit she uses to justify them.
>She was auditioning for a spot and she didn't make the cut
Something you'll quickly notice about these people is they seem to think it's a 'competition' in the same way getting a golden ticket with your Wonka chocolate bar is a 'competition'. In contrast to the Olympic 100-metre Dash being a competition, where that fat b***h has about as much "chance" and is obviously just as unqualified to even attempt it.
You can easily tell people they are wrong without telling them or implying that they are dumb. You need to tell them they are wrong without making it seem like you think they are obviously wrong or that they are moronic for believing whatever they believe. And in terms of art, you should be constructive/highlight the elements you think are good before jumping in to the bad.
It is a very old practice in teaching to first give the positive feedback to build confidence before telling your students the mistakes. The latter should always be done with the takeaway that there are areas to improve rather that they are dumbasses. Tone is very important.
>You need to tell them they are wrong without making it seem like you think they are obviously wrong or that they are moronic for believing whatever they believe.
You only need to do this if you're trying to convince them of something. If aren't even speaking to the creator, as here, you don't "need" to softball anything.
>Tone is very important.
Thank you, anon. This is what I've been trying to say but I'm too verbose. You're succinct, persuasive.
Anon, I'm responding to your Tone. In all of your replies
,
, and this one, you've sounded very condescending. Me, as a teacher, a residential counselor, a therapist when needed, I see that so that's really what I'm trying to critique. You're right, we don't *need* to softball anything
, we're having a conversation. But our conversation has progressed into *how* to critique a person.
If someone's bad at something, belittling them does not help. However, if you can find their strength, you might be able to guide them towards a better path. If that means they don't professionally pursue a singing career, like Emma, then cool. But if the person is just doing something for a hobby and might enjoy it, like Emma and singing, then, if you care about the person, you can try to give them some guidance on ways to improve *while* supporting their creative spark.
I like you
>You can easily tell people they are wrong without telling them or implying that they are dumb.
If that were true Simon Cowell could save a shit-tonne of money on security, but it's simply doesn't work that way:
For all the reality show fake drama and bullshittery in this show, these delusional homosexuals do exist, and industry producers and talent scouts would have to suffer these morons behind closed doors until they realised they could monetise their spergery. Praised be Jesus.
>And in terms of art, you should be constructive/highlight the elements you think are good before jumping in to the bad.
That's like saying a woman should reject a guy with zero chance, but let him down easy. Women quickly learn to be brutal, because offering any encouragement whatsoever to men is certain to result in unwanted orbiters, creeps, and stalkers. Ironically they're not only doing themselves a favour, but brutal honestly turns out to be the most merciful response by not stringing some delusional homosexual along.
You can often see the judges trying to actually help acquaint these people with reality, with the overt noble motivation to prevent them further embarrassment, waste of time, money, and spending their life chasing an impossible dream, invariably to no avail.
And just like a stalker demanding a woman tell him what to do to win her affection, these people don't have a clue. They have no chance, nothing to work with, and literally nothing they can do from that point to make it happen. You can't discuss their art/talent, because they don't even have any to begin with.
Conversely, artists need to work together in a perfectly honest way, and give unvarnished feedback. It's why shit like 'The Marvels' is crap. Everyone is busy sucking each other's dicks on set, caring about everyone's feels instead of the art or the movie they're producing. So it becomes literally impossible for these people to produce anything good.
>If that were true Simon Cowell could save a shit-tonne of money on security, but it's simply doesn't work that way
Anon, Simon Cowell is obviously playing the butthole because audiences love a narrative even in these kinds of shows. They know what to expect from him and that generates catharsis when they have their expectations vindicated when he tells someone awful they suck or when he gets surprised by a legitimately awesome performance. He and Ramsey do the same thing. Its hilarious you think they are not playing a persona for the camera.
>That's like saying a woman should reject a guy with zero chance, but let him down easy.
Women do this all the time. Its perfectly easy to say "Sorry, we arent meant to be" instead of "Ew, never". Both things ultimately convey the same, but the form is entirely different. Even telling someone, "No, we will never be a thing" is less harsh than "Nobody will ever love you".
>Simon Cowell is obviously playing the butthole
No shit. Why I mentioned the reality show bullshittery, for spergs like you. Way to miss the point moron.
Though he doesn't have to pretend as much as you think with these freaks.
>"Nobody will ever love you"
Some men just never 'get it' or don't shower, or have some condition that's not even necessarily their fault, (like the Elephant Man), and it would be cruel to tell them they're ever going to get anywhere with any woman if they can't do something about it.
"Hey midget, you will never win the Olympic High Jump, but there's a million OTHER things i the human sphere you CAN do". It's not hard, it's not even harsh to tell Peter Dinklage he'll never be in the NBA. You'd be doing him a favour if he thought otherwise and asked him if he'd ever considered an acting career instead.
And that's the level of delusion you're dealing with, a midget who thinks he can play in the NBA.
I can't even play in the NBA, I sure as frick can't sing, but I know that, and I respect the talent of people who can all the more. These homosexuals who go on American Idol have no respect for people who not only have the talent, but do the work required to hone their craft. Frick these people - especially when they're going to stand there and tell better qualified people they're wrong. They're not kids anymore, and we're way beyond people 'letting them win' a few to 'encourage' their 'spark' - especially when they have no spark, (if they did Simon Cowell would likely say so because brutal honesty works both ways).
>No shit. Why I mentioned the reality show bullshittery, for spergs like you. Way to miss the point moron.
>I mentioned a point which invalidates my entire argument but since I acknowledge it now it doesnt invalidate my entire argument. Also, you are wrong because I called you a moron.
>You'd be doing him a favour if he thought otherwise and asked him if he'd ever considered an acting career instead.
And the whole point anon, is that you can tell Peter Dinklage "you will never make it into the NBA" or you can tell him "you are a fricking midget and a fricking moron". How do you not see a difference between these two statements?
Brutally honest refers to the content of the statement, not necessarily the tone. I can be brutally honest with somebody while letting them off easy. I can say two different sentences with the exact same meaning and different tones.
He is being a fricking moron if he thinks he can play in the NBA, and stands there telling you to "give him another chance", and tells you you're wrong, you're an arsehole for not letting him try, and complaining about your tone.
Just like Simon Cowell isn't Emma's best friend - he's her ONLY friend in that room.
>He is being a fricking moron if he thinks he can play in the NBA, and stands there telling you to "give him another chance"
I mean. At that point I would just conclude that he is either in some deep delusion or cognitively impaired. So, in practical terms, it does not matter what tone you use at that point. Even if you call him a midget and a moron it will have the very same effect as if you tell him that there isnt a very good chance for him to make it into the NBA.
You're likewise wasting your time if you have to walk on eggshells around someone's feelings when you're shooting a film, or animating a Amazon Prime series, or working on any collaborative project. You don't have time for that horseshit when you're on the clock, and a real artist will know something is wrong or stupid the second you point it out, whether they like your 'muh tone' or not.
The unvarinished truth is not the same thing as going out of your way to be mean, but homosexuals like Viv will never see it that way. If you want to see how this kind of shit works, just look at how that Eric July homosexual reacts to criticism. Even when he's caught redhanded lying he blames 'muh haters' and dismisses obvously legit criticism as somehow invalid. It wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't lying to himself just as much as the suckers buying his shitty low-effort comic.
>Imaging Lute trying to tell anon to be nice and discuss things reasonably
I love Lute
>why does Cinemaphile refuse to admit that it's good
I don't come here that often so I'm not part of whatever consensus you're referring to, but I think it's really good.
it's good
>/co anon
Do they even met her?
Prove it.
Highkey want a threesome with Alastor and Vox
>not being passed around between the V's like a blunt
lol. lmao even
two out of three of them are needy codependent morons
and the third one is velvette
I'm already horny anon and then you put this thought in my head, too
I wouldn't mind putting on a show with Velvette for Val and Vox they'd be into it
I want Alastor, Val & Vox inside me all at once!
Patrician taste
it's nothing we can't recover from with unlimited immortality and regeneration
Damn anon! such a bawd you are!
Why'd Viv have to do short kings like this? We can't talk about her weight but she can use height as an insult?
>can't talk about her weight
holy kek did she ever get offended over people calling her fat?
she deserves it she looks like a pig now
It's essentially the creators' characters filtered through a glamorizing shredding machine specifically to milk and appropriate them for Broadway so that the only thing you see in places like Twitter or Youtube, Hazbin Hotel is the only thing you'll be seeing far more often than any other ACTUAL indie show, further overshadowing future creators and making those with similar premises feel like shit.
so frick you, like Vivzie would probably say since 75% of her cast just swears at everyone.
You just made me imagine Hazbin Hotel: The Broadway Musical. I'd probably have to see it just for the sheer surrealism of that shit.
I swear to God, if this is true and Pentious' death is treated as a joke I'm going to be so fricking pissed.
Sounds like shit
>Adam gets defated by the gag character
guess the leak is official then
source for this? was it the same guy all those threads ago who leaked the other stuff?
My problem isn't just the pace it's that the premise of the show isn't even explored
The hotel is never a success, never draws in sinners, and there's only two residents (AD and Pent) who are supposedly working towards redemption
We needed at least a few filler episodes that introduced new residents
A slow and steady climb of the hotel filling up
Okay I admit it but AD is kinda mid in my opinion
I kinda wanna correct him but just a little bit
>the premise of the show isn't explored
The premise of the show as of episode 1 is that the Hotel's success is utterly irrelevant until the complete eradication Adam is planning is averted.
Charlie doesn't know her efforts are fruitless until episode 6; a critical moment where she and Heaven (that is, Emily) fully understand the situation. That's why that whole sequence is done to music; it's of critical plot and emotional importance. The last two episodes are presumably about stopping the Exterminations outright, which was Charlie's whole goal *with* the Hotel. She'll have saved her people.
Getting individual people to ascend to Heaven is something that can wait until next season. Other than Angel Dust; we've seen his character arc unfolding.
> Other than Angel Dust; we've seen his character arc unfolding.
Angel Dust's character has not unfolded for shit. We still dont know what landed him in place in the first place and he has not admitted to any wrong doing whatsoever. As Charlie said, the first step to redemption is saying sorry and that has not happened.
>We don't know what landed him in the first place
It doesn't strictly matter; the show communicates the idea that however bad sinners may or may not have been in life, living in Hell corrupts them ever further into despair. Turning his life around and being a better person *now* is the progress of his character arc.
Also his arc's not *over* yet; he just learned to respect himself again, and show compassion for those around him. Apologizing for past wrongs may yet come.
>It doesn't strictly matter
It does matter, even if he got worse in hell, he still needs to repent for what he did wrong to land him in hell in the first place.
>show compassion for those around him
Not being compassionate was never one of his flaws. He is cares for Charlie in episode 4 and even in the original music video where his character was introduced he is shown as caring for other people.
So, he didnt really turn his life around in any way. He didnt quit drugs or casual sex. He still flirts with everybody he meets. His character has not changed in any way other than standing up to Valentino. And being a doormat isnt really a sin.
The only concession I will make is that he opened up to Husk that one time. But that did not change the way he behaves in any way that we can see. He has not effectively changed in any way.
Adam's list of what lands people in heaven in bullshit in the first place. You can absolutely never steal, be selfless and stick it to the man and also be a fricking terrible person. The show even implies that Adam's list is moronic, Vaggie reads it in an incredulous voice plus he made it up on the spot, and they still somehow take it as gospel.
>It does matter, even if he got worse in hell, he still needs to repent for what he did wrong to land him in hell in the first place.
The show has never said such a thing. Are you another one of these Christian types projecting your own religion onto a fictional TV show loosely based on Abrahamic mythology?
>The show has never said such a thing
Charlie very explicitly says that the first step to redemption is a genuine sorry, which implies that he has to acknowledge what he did as wrong.
Plus, how else are we to understand how redemption works?
OK that IS fair. That said, one could say that the point of the song is that the journey to redemption begins with a sincere desire to change, not merely saying the word "Sorry".
Personally, I find that an interesting tack, because that's consistent with modern psychology on working with people suffering from addiction. No treatment plan, no jail sentence, no attempt to get people off the drugs they are addicted to can work without a sincere desire from the person to change. The sinners in HH can't improve until they give themselves permission to try to be better people.
>sincere desire to change, not merely saying the word "Sorry"
Right, I thought this was implied in a genuine sorry which is less about the word 'sorry' and more about feeling sorry. Which is what repentance is. Just take any religious connotation out of the words repentance or contrition and they just mean feeling bad about what you did and making amends.
The whole point is that feeling sorry/bad about what you did requires suffering because you understand the pain you inflicted on others and so feel it for yourself. In order to get better, first you must feel bad, literally, because of what you did. Now you understand what you did, fully.
>Kills off not one but two characters unceremoniously
Yeah if this happens I'm done, not gonna bother with season 2.
Source?
It's just so moronic. Adam himself doesn't even kill anybody, it's usually his exterminators who do the dirty job. He even said in the first episode that going down to Hell is beneath him so he just showed up as a hologram.
He still goes down for the extermination. He's shown taking Vaggie's crown after Lute clips her wings. he just didn't want to go down for the meeting.
I swear to god, characters like Pentious always seem to suffer the worst of deaths (the innocent archetype) for the sake of "please cry now" instead of actually coming up with a way of how to make them live jesus christ I ABHORR that kind of writing.
I can make these too.
Nice
CANON CANON
Well, the show seems to be inspired by Paradise Lost and Lucifer's daughter in that does indeed frick him and their child. So...
Holy shit, are the writers moronic?
Holy shit, are anons moronic? Oh wait.
You're delusional if you think Vivzie would kill any of her babies with no dignity. Say what you want about her, but she's not that type of writer
Doesnt she want us to hate Adam? I legit can't tell. Adam is such a cartoonish fratbro that it comes full circle into making him likable.
He's supposed to be a villain you hate on a moral level but enjoy in terms of his antics. Evil, but fun to watch
hmm, it'd be kind of a waste to kill adam instead of him getting an arc in hell (and liking it) and meeting lilith there or something.
Adam is a flip-and-switch kind of character. So when you absolutely despise him, the writers cheaply gain sympathy and “what a twist” by revealing his true personality at the last minute.
You see hints of it there and then.
For all his misogyny, he seems to have actual comraderie with Lute. The fact that such an uptight character as her enjoys hyping him up and following his antics kinda implies that they are genuine friends. Plus they hang out together off duty.
Was he misogynist or just super crass? I don't remember him actually denigrating women.
He:
>aggressively hit on a groupie that was into his drummer
>mocks the idea of "you wanted equality"
>names one of his warriors "vegana" basically
>calls Charlie and Vaggie c**ts
the dude's a misogynist, but he's one in the way that arrogant frat-bro types are; casually demeaning and possessive while ostensibly "loving" women.
While some people might not consider what he does to be misogynistic, he is clearly being presented as the stereotypical fratboy/dudebro. He never calls Charlie by her name, calls her babe/sweetie, he thinks him being a man makes him awesome, he complains about women wanting equal rights (In a stereotypical dudebro way) etc.
I imagine that Lute is the one that replaced Eve, but Adam’s deep depression from losing her (and 99% of whoever gets born) has him fornicating with other women and becoming a faker and faker person to cover up the fact he’s the unhappiest man in heaven.
You keep saying things like this and posting that screenshot, anon, but I think you just misinterpreted the moment. That's not a look of remorse, it's a look of disgust. He was expressing in that scene that he didn't even want to go down to hell because hell and its denizens repulse him.
He’s honest that Hell and the sinners repulse him. But in that scene, he had his cheeky face drip down into that sour solemn expression with his hand on his face, shaking fidelity like he’s on the brink of tears, before reclining back to his usual dude bro persona.
He’s also literally eating ribs in that scene (subconsciously lingering for Eve and her box specifically) and talks about banging random chicks, which shows that he isn’t in the right mindset at all in his life and is completely unfulfilled in his love life.
What makes it repulsive is the fact it represents his failures and regrets.
Not bad for headcanon, headanon. But it's headcanon all the same.
Anon, while I wish the show wrote Adam to be this complex, I think you are reading a bit too much into it. I think they just wanted to drive home the point that he finds hell icky and only wants to be down there when he can entertain himself by slaughtering the locals.
If they want me to find some heart in homosexual who is sexually far worse than Adam and far more violent than Adam, then they better make me give a damn about his grandpa.
Not to mention, both Lucifer and Adam agreed to this solely because they have no hope for the sinners whatsoever and are sick of their endless wickedness.
The show has a moral agenda show, not all sins are created equal and the problematic characters will get offed for audience catharsis. Only the 'unproblematic' sinners will be offered a chance at redemption.
>not all sins are created equal
They are in the eyes of the LORD!!!! So they should try to redeem the problematic sinners.
Adam is literally fried in the brain and still heavily respects Lute as a person. His moral should be “move on from the past already” as that is the thing trapping him on this loveless parade of banging random women and downgrading them into sex objects, and not realizing that he should instead focus his eyes only on Lute.
Right but in some people's minds misogyny is such a cardinal sin that they wont accept the offenders getting better. And a show is precisely the outlet for their cathartic righteous anger.
But they literally turned the man that died simping for the woman he deeply loved into a stupidly sexist stereotype. Stolas and Stella’s brother are literally more sexist and messed up than this complete mockery of our fricking grandpa.
NTA, but for better or worse, this show is so incredibly tryhard that literally everything is dripping with symbolism and meaning and shit. They've been doing incredibly minor character development details for literal years.
Now *I* love that kind of thing, but I could also see it being annoying.
>They've been doing incredibly minor character development details for literal years.
Whatever they have been doing in comics/interviews/art posted online or whatever is inconsequential to the show unless they actually SHOW it. And so far, nothing about Adam other than his relationship with Lute indicates that the character will be given better treatment than a knife in the back and an unceremoniously goodbye. I wish to be proven wrong but this outcome is a lot more likely.
I don't mean that the character development they have revealed in prior materials matters to the plot of the show itself; I only mean that that shows the sheer level of effort/passion they have for the project.
Whether it made the show *better* is of course a matter of how the show's quality turns out - it was in service of arguing that this is the sort of show where the question of "is this symbolic or just a coincidence" is almost always gonna be "symbolic".
>They've been doing incredibly minor character development details for literal years.
It's working against them. They're very sloppy about actually communicating this character detail that only exists in their heads to the audience.
I mean, you're supposed to see him as villainous. It's not just that he commands the Exterminations; it's a cold-as-hell act, but could be justified. It's his outright rejection that any other solution could be reached because he would be deprived the sadistic joy of mass slaughter that makes him villainous.
Him being a hilariously cartoonish fratbro makes him likeable as a character, sure. That's why they call it "you love to hate him".
>because he would be deprived the sadistic joy of mass slaughter that makes him villainous.
No. It’s because he literally has no hope for their completely evil existences.
He literally says "there's the question of fun" because the extermination is entertainment to him, as a major reason why he refuses her offer. Dude's a sadist.
Even if this image is fake I could see it happening with how trite the writing is. If Pentious is revived as an angel it wouldn't be enough to justify killing off Adam- which would be such a fricking lame move when he's barely done anything and more than enough to kill any morbid curiosity I have left for this show. I wouldn't be surprised if even the hordes of kids and morons that suck this series dry end up raising eyebrows at this themselves.
I found another connection between Vox and the Exorcist. And it’s mega dumb.
vo X
Vox’s face: O_@
Exorcist face: X_O
Feels like every other post is complaining about the show's pace, but I haven't had a single problem keeping up. With 8 25-minute episodes, Season 1 is a 3:20 long.. plenty of stage musicals handle a wide cast and lots of story in that time. Musical numbers are actually very efficient at characterization in just a few minutes. Like sure, I would *like* more time with the characters, but I don't think it's necessarily too fast because of that; that's just me wanting more.
Why did Amazon only give the show eight episodes?
Amazon a shit but they control most of a certain part of the commerce economy. They can do what they want and there's nothing we can do about it
Season 1 only having 8 was Viv's fault, Season 2 having only 8 will be both theirs and Viv's fault.
i like the songs they are fun
The show is just way too busy. I appreciate is doesnt have a bean mouth cal-arts style but there is way too much going on in the show. The cursing is too much too.
I'll finish the season but I am just not really hyped for whatever a season 2 would bring, especially if Adam and Pent are killed off like they are leaking they will be.
I don't care at all about swearing in itself but I agree they do it too much; it becomes distracting.
I agree with the busy and I feel "busy" can also mean "fast". We get no time with these characters, no room for them to breathe and grow naturally. We're to assume, from the last episode, that 5 months has passed from the first to last episode. That's a lot of character and plot development we've missed out on, all because we have too few episodes. I agree that the art style and writing could be toned down a smidge and raised in quality respectively, but pacing is a glaring issue that actively damages the show more
We are not even on episode 7 and, without any actual explanation or show of progress, its insinuated that one of the sinners could be in heaven already. Also, 5 months have passed offscreen what the actual frick.
What does Pentious' return from?
So is heaven hard to get into or what?
If the ticket to get into heaven is literally not being a murderer or a deviant of the worst kind, doesnt that make Adam a bit more justified especially if he didnt act like frat dudebro constantly (which is dont on purpose by viv to make us hate him).
Where do these "leaks" about Adam dying and shit even come from
It came from an Anon right here on Cinemaphile, people assumed it was complete bullshit since it was mainly just a bunch of stuff we already knew, but as it turns out he got the reason why Vaggie got kicked out of Heaven and how exactly right, and how Cherri cucks Pentious.
>this is from last thursday
i mean isn't it possible that this guy just somehow saw ep 6 early and is bullshitting the rest?
she said adam's been her favorite character to write
This was before we even had episodes 3 and 4.
oh i'm stupid and can't read calendars
i got the dates mixed up, that leak was from before eps 3 & 4
>i mean isn't it possible that this guy just somehow saw ep 6 early and is bullshitting the rest?
Do we know if the show is released early based on localization?
>Knows Vox's name
>Doesn't state that it's Vox who dies but "the antagonist"
>Alastor and Vox will have a cool and epic battle and Alastor will defeat him without killing him
>Round 2 next season
huh
Eve is definitely not Lute
Disinfo, they always do that shit. best example was pink diamond reveal in SU, sgerr and co was trying SO HARD to hide it and misdirect the reveal
I can absolutely see Viv killing Adam unceremoniously. The leaks may as well be bullshit, but I think his death is probably expected.
Adam is NOT going to be killed. I wont let them.
He's going to get accepted into the hotel, and Niffty will try to dom him!
>check Vizzie nationality
okay now i fully get why her characters swear a lot
Dont tell me shes an aussie
half latam half gringa, but not from any latam country but El Salvador and there swears are said by fricking everyone even toddlers speak like sailors there (i know because thats my country) so her parents probably swear 5 out of every 10 words and the culture passed to her
Erm, don't you mean it's FRICKING good?
>rock'n'roll sing-song delivery
>Whaaat up, baby?
Frickin' love Adam
Guys, we all know that Pentious is dying because he's attracted to Cherri, who is a woman, we all know that if Cherri was a man Viv wouldn't kill him off.
Penthouse Pentious may just be a snake, but he'll be delivering leviathan dick right to Cherri's door, and I guarantee you she'll sign for it and even help him offload the truck and stuff it right in her garage.
What does he even sees in her?
I dont think pentious is very knowledgeable when it comes to women
homie had the guts to ask her to do a sex with him, that's further than you've probably ever got homosexual.
And she'd probably have let him if he hadn't fumbled right after.
Pentious has grit, we stand for our boy.
He probably wanted to revenge frick her for everytime she messed up his plans
Why does Cherri tell Charlie to hold one of her bombs when she knew it would kill her if she did? Why does Vaggie tolerate that shit?
>Why does Cherri tell Charlie to hold one of her bombs
She's an unrepentant sinner and doesn't care about hurting people around her.
>Why does Vaggie tolerate that shit?
It's prudent to find out what the person who just bombed your wall and is carrying more bombs *wants* before antagonizing her and risking her bombing the rest of the hotel.
>she knew it would kill her?
cherri can't even kill other sinners with her bombs, let alone the princess of hell. Remember how casual Stolas was about getting kidnapped in looloo land, and making blitzo rescue him? only blessed weapons can hurt the high ranking hellborn.
Someone needs to make fanart of him getting topped by Sera.
good taste anon
Thank you. At least someone sees the vision.
BAD BOY ADAM NEEDS CORRECTION
Hazbin cast becomes assassins while I.M.P are the hotel employees, what changes?
The entire building collapses in three hours.
The Hotel goes to shit in less than a day, and I.M.P disbandes since Charlie is too much of a cinnamon roll
Because Viv sold out, and sucked Bezos' wiener for cash. And didn't pay it forward to the Helluva Boss staff.
What's his tax policy?
laissez faire
Nailed it. He's not interested in directing the course of hell. He only minds his personal affairs.
Everyone's sucking off Adam, Vox and Alastor constantly but this microchad is undervalued.
No wonder hells such a shithole, he can’t subsidise his factories, since he’s been such a pussy pushover for the last couple Millenia he’s also probably got Anti-military or Pacifism as his mil’ policy and get a -50% maximum funding malus and reduced labourers converting to soldiers
Hell is anarcho-capitalist
He's such a depressed autistic that probably the other sins are the ones who care handle stuff like that
Are you posting your thread again or are you just copying it
Are there any social media posts from Alex Brightman that could potentially betray him coming back for season 2?
so before the sex room rape he was a virgin right?
>Supposedly woke creator writes a character getting brutaly raped by a mob for a gag.
>The same thing is presented as horrific when Angel Dust is forced to frick for his porn movies.
Do you think the writers even thought about this one?
I'd guess they did, actually. They were careful not to have Pentious say "no" while being dragged off. Also, his clothes aren't even mussed up when he's next seen. AND he's been shown to have enough hypnosis power to get people off of him if he doesn't want them there. It doesn't take much to believe he just stammered his way through "uh uh sorry, I was just kidding, gotta go".
>They were careful not to have Pentious say "no" while being dragged off.
I would say desperately clawing at the floor not to get dragged in while yelling, seemingly in desperation constitutes as not wanting to get dragged in.
>Also, his clothes aren't even mussed up when he's next seen. AND he's been shown to have enough hypnosis power to get people off of him if he doesn't want them there. It doesn't take much to believe he just stammered his way through "uh uh sorry, I was just kidding, gotta go".
While this is certainly possible and my preferred headcanon as well. The fact that they didnt even give a conclusive answer is kinda damning.
One of the things I wish was followed up on was that "Son?" joke from the pilot, where it's revealed he did have a family while alive and he the only one sent to Hell (or at least assumes he was). But because they're killing Pent before we get any sort of solid backstory from him we won't be see that. What a fricking waste of a great character, if only this was season 2 like it should have been so we would already know their backstories when the stakes became deadly.
Why are we taking this "pent dies" for truth? It has not been confirmed.
Because the leaker has been right about absolutely everything else, from the exact nature of how Vaggie became a fallen angel to how Cherri cucks Pentious,
also note that unlike a fair few other VAs, Alex Brightman (VA of Pentious and Adam) hasn't confirmed that he's doing his lines for season 2 yet.
>Alex Brightman (VA of Pentious and Adam) hasn't confirmed that he's doing his lines for season 2 yet.
What about Vox’s actor?
My money's on Angel Dust dying. He's the one who's had the character arc of learning to respect *himself* enough to believe redemption is even possible. But his songs are also about how utterly hopeless his situation still *is*.
I think he'll demonstrably prove redemption is *possible*, but still die. Possibly at Valentino's hand in possessive rage that being raptured would break the contract he has over Angel. The fact that he's named Angel is almost such an obvious clue it's actually easy to overlook it, plus it'd be an homage to Rent, where the character named Angel was also the one who died.
Dying shouldnt really be a thing in this show. Characters should plunge deeper into dispair and thus getting farther away from the actual possibility of redemption rather than dying. If Viv wants to eject any character from the show just make them give up hope and leave the hotel/plunge deeper into a hell of their own creation.
I suppose, but the fact that permadeath is possible for both demons and angels is kind of an important part of the story arc, so they're already locked in.
How do you think touching Velvette's midriff feels like?
what do you think of the "Lute is Eve" theory?
https://twitter.com/JessicaVosk/status/1752101719297626544
These guys i swear...
why would lute be happy about that? By any definition, eve would have been cast into the fire for being THE original sin creator.
By no definition or sectarian belief was Eve ever consigned to the fire. She and Adam both get chucked out of Eden because they both ate the fruit, and Eve gets the additional punishments of childbirth and patriarchy.
I'm honestly still scratching my head at ADAM not being in the fire, but apparently viv said Adam didn't eat the fruit in this setting. Thus, he stuck it to the man, and 'never fricked up in his life'.
also, john 3:16.
Because Eve is Adam’s wife.
There wouldn't really be any reason to hide her identity. She'd also have had a much stronger *personal* reaction to the daughter of her husband's first girlfriend.
It just wouldn't be much of a twist given that Adam is right there already.
I mean, Adam didnt react to the daughter of his first wife so.
Adam and Lilith didn't know each other very long; he basically immediately tried to get her to submit to him and she told him to frick off. The opening narration refers to Eve as his "new bride", not "second bride", so he likely isn't that jealous of her. Though he DOES identify Charlie as "Lilith's little hottie", not Lucifer's.
We pretty much know already who Eve is gonna be
Why would Eve do this? What's her hypothetical goal?
>Charlie: Why is my relationship with Vaggie a sin but your relationship with Adam isn't?
>Lute: What do you mean?
>Charlie: He told me you two get it on! Sex out of wedlock, that's a sin!
>Lute:
>Lute: Well, we do butt stuff. It doesn't count.
>Charlie: You do... what stuff?
>Lute: Butt stuff. He fricks my butt.
>Charlie: You can DO that? And it doesn't count?
>Lute: How sheltered are you? Frick.
>Charlie, hands trembling as she dials her phone: Dad? DAD! Meet me at the hotel in five minutes! We can do it if you use my butt, it doesn't count!
For that one Adamanon
>Be you, a recently deceased winner
>Not sure why you got into heaven, but you aren't complaining
>Every day you can do whatever you feel like: drink milkshakes, go for a massage, watch movies, and then party at night and wake up and do it all over again
>No one ever fights and aside from gossip there's no conflict
>Best of all you have a really cool pair of wings and you've gotten super fast just from enjoying zipping around so much
>The jannies tell you to slow it down a few times
>They're usually hands off but they always intervene before anything bad can happen ever which is fine but...it's also kinda boring?
>One day when the jannies are dealing with a moderately volumed disagreement in the middle of town over something petty
>You zip away and find one of many empty buildings on the edge of town and start flying through the rooms like an obstacle course, ducking and sidestepping the doorframes and bouncing off the walls
>So much fun!!
>You launch yourself from the ceiling and a door suddenly swings open
>Adam yells at you, "HEY WE'RE TRYING TO FRICK IN HERE!"
>You stop in midair and wince
>"I am SO sorry."
>This guy was THE Adam, right? The first man and the domineering force that even the janny angels didn't boss around (more like they'd offer polite suggestions)
>"Please don't tell anyone."
>Adam scoffs. "As if."
>Lute appears behind him, mask off and her hair particularly messy. "What are you even doing here?"
>"...Flying. Sorry, bye!"
>Adam and Lute exchange a confused look
>You fly out of the nearest window, embarrassed that someone so high ranking caught you fricking around
>A few days later you're drinking a glass of nonalcoholic wine on a patio (it's Sunday) while watching the sunset
>You sure do wish you could go flying again and race around
>It's the most alive you feel up here
>If you start thinking about it too much, you'll get depressed
>"Hey, hummingbird."
>You startle, spilling your wine all over your chest
>Adam laughs and welcomes himself to sit across from you, giving you a friendly grin
>"Why'd you run the other day? I wasn't done talking to you!"
>You clear your throat. "Sorry for interrupting."
>"Nah, it's chill, me and Lute frick all the time but we gotta like use those abandoned buildings otherwise we'll get b***hed at because we're supposed to be 'setting an example' or what the frick ever."
>Wow for the first man he seems really laid back
>Despite the fact he never takes his mask off, he's...really cute
>And he's got a decent amount of muscle on his bones, unlike the other angels here
>"So like, I was thinking. You wanna have some fun?"
>"What kind of fun?"
>"Uh, FRICKING fun. Duh."
>"Fricking fun like having sex or like a lot of fun?"
>"Yes."
>You blink.
>"O-Okay. As long as I don't get in trouble."
>"Tsch! Just stick with me babe and you can do whatever the frick you want."
>"Even flying around as fast as I can go?"
>He shrugs and smirks. "Uh. Yeah."
>He takes you to an empty museum you've never seen before and in one of the back rooms he has a man cave complete with a huge flat screen, a king size (unmade) bed, beanbag chairs, and video game consoles spread about
>There are empty chip bags and soda cans strewn about the room
>"Don't mind the mess the jannies haven't found this place yet."
>He sits on the mattress, which squeaks a little under his weight, and with a snap of his fingers he's completely nude
>"Now come to Daddy, Sweetheart."
>He's a little chubby, what you might call "big boned', but he's attractively thicc and his wiener is really big
>You aren't even sure it's going to fit
>You glide over to him and he very roughly grabs your shoulders and forces you down between his legs
>"Let me see your mouth first."
>He grabs his wiener and rubs the tip against your lips
>You hesitate and maneuver your head around. "I don't know if it's going to fit."
>"It will."
>"I really don't--"
>He shoves it into your mouth anyway
>It unhinges your jaw and slides all the all the way into your throat
>It hurts for just a second and there is the reflexive expectation that you should be gagging right now but you don't
>He groans and massages your scalp with his fingers. "Oh, yeah, baby, PERFECT."
>Your eyes aren't even tearing up and the lack of oxygen does nothing
>He starts thrusting in and out of your throat with his balls hitting your chin each time
>You're more perplexed than turned on right now, but the way he's moaning and telling you how good you feel sounds really nice
>"Yeah you look so good on your knees, sweetheart, that's right where a good woman is supposed to be. You're the BEST!"
>He keeps fricking your throat for a while, edging himself
>He finally pulls out of your throat
>You wipe the saliva from your mouth and clear your throat, expecting soreness, but there is none. "Wow that didn't hurt."
>"Of course not! It's fricking heaven b***h, sex is for pleasure ONLY."
>You stand up and he slaps your ass.
>"God damn you are so hot; now ride me!"
>He lays back expectantly with one arm behind his neck
>You straddle his hips and take his wiener with both hands, hesitating for a moment to rub it across your slit
>This should not be physically possible considering how much smaller you are but you lower yourself on his wiener
>Slowly, you take in half of him until you can feel the head pushing your cervix up
>He grabs your waist with one hand and shoves you down
>His wiener goes all the way up inside of you, pushing your entire womb up and you can see the giant bulge in the middle of your stomach
>"So FRICKING tight!"
>You rest your hands on his soft tummy and start riding him, having to move up fully on your knees each time to sheath and unsheath him
>It actually feels really good and sends electricity throughout your whole body
>You can't help moaning, too, because sex on earth never felt this good
>across your slit
Immersion ruined
Yes? I assumed the Adamanon was also girl
Kinda homophobic of you to not cater to the gay adamanons, or to assume that adamons must be women.
>I assumed the Adamanon was also girl
NTA that Adamanon, but based femoid.
Glad you liked<3
>There is no pain just pure, unfiltered pleasure and euphoria
>Your entire body is shaking and you can feel your pussy coating him
>So much so that it leaks all the way down his wiener
>He gets close and decides you aren't going fast enough, grabs you by the waist and starts fricking you like an onahole
>When he finally cums there's so much of it that you almost feel like it's going to spew out of your mouth
>You can't see straight
>Adam laughs at you and pulls you up to his chest and off his wiener, not caring that you're leaking his jizz all over both of you
>He cuddles you up to him like a kid with a stuffed animal
>"That was AWESOME! Babe your pussy is BOMB, did you feel how much I came? I haven't cum that much in a long time. We've GOT to do this again! Haha look at you, your eyes are still crossed--yeah, that's the pretty typical response I get because the dick is just that good. I've had some chicks tell me that heaven is worth it for me alone. You're pretty lucky but it's because you're so beautiful, babe."
>It's actually cute how full of himself he is but it's not unwarranted
>No wonder he always gets his way
>Later he recruits you to the exterminators and you can fly as fast as you want once a year and then have fricking bomb sex with Adam and Lute afterwards
>The afterlife is pretty okay!
>Across your slit
Did (actual) female hands type this?
The adamanon here
Tysm anon, you’ve made my day
yeah I am, not sure about the others though
>inb4 ywnbaw
>yeah I am
You know the rules
What's the chances that he's a pedo?
16?
>16
What?
Low. Adam gets off on having the power to bully people into "consent", whether it's for sex or the status quo of the Exterminations. That requires adults with the wherewithal to turn him down.
>yeah I am
Adam would like to know your location
It should have been me!
You disgust me and make me realize why hell exists, have a (you).
It has a refreshing feel, but still, not good, it's too fricking rushed, the show pretends that you deeply care about a lot of plot points and character by just showing them like once and never fleshing them out
There are unironically people who think women like to hear the vegana referred to as a slit. Incredible.
Don’t they in the bedroom? In like a ‘dirty talk’ kinda way?
they do not
We also don't enjoy hearing it called an axe wound. I hope that isn't surprising!
Why would anybody call a natural vegana an axewound?
It has been said. I have also heard snatch which, while less offensive than the others, I am also not a fan of. There's just nothing sexy or romantic about it.
I want to cuddle Alastor, hold his hand and snuggle into his shoulder…but no sex…because I know it makes him uncomfortable
So why doesn't lucifer actually try to rule and fix his realm? Mąkę murder and canibalism illegal. Establish a Police force, arredt demonlords and aske angeles to execute them.
It doesn't seems that hard to me.
Without the threat of death, there is no order to be made.
This was adequately covered. Lucifer gave the fruit of knowledge to mortals and they fricked it. He wants nothing more to do with them.
Well, he wants nothing to do with the bottom half of them, which is all he's allowed to see, that being his curse.
>Establish a Police force
>in Hell
I feel like that was one of the things they actually explained pretty well because that's his main conflict. Heaven broke his back so hard that he became downtrodden, yet the sinners of hell still revered him as a god.
Hell was a better place when Lilith was around, which scared Heaven and is why she's out of the picture. The cleansing only happens because of what happened to Lucifer post-separation anyways; the moment he says no the cleansing stops because Heaven is scared shitless of him.
>Heaven broke his back so hard that he became downtrodden, yet the sinners of hell still revered him as a god.
On top of this that I forgot to mentioned; there's no way he's completely in the dark on Lilith's location. She was whom he loved the most. Heaven absolutely has her and is holding her hostage in order to carry out the executions or something in that nature.
Start liking good women.
Adam's daughterus are really pretty.
Why is she so hot?
Because she's albino Raven.
And that's why that version of her is less hot and cool to me
Only if you draw her hair wrong, which almost everyone does because there's no turnarounds for the characters yet.
It's okay anon, you'll get to see masked Lute a-murderizin' sinners in the finale.
A fine addition to my collection, I'll trade ya
It's not good from a writing perspective. Shit just happens with zero buildup or consistency.
But it has visual flair and that's enough for most people.
How would you improve the writing?
I liked the comic were he bit into Charlie's neck and took a good chunk. I like the ship, but I like it more when it tries to be accurate to the lore like that.
>hentai shit is nice tho
Anon do you have that on hand by any chance?
The lore accurate stuff is really hard to come by
Don't have the pics saved, here's a link to a fan dub of it on YT:
>half of Alastor "fans"
What season does Alastor have sex with her to piss off Lucifer and Vaggie
So I'm not saying the show's pacing *is* perfect, but what I *will* say is a ton of idiots these days who think "we can't have a movie with X character in it unless we've had a whole solo movie to meet them first" wouldn't know good pacing if it threw them on a moving sidewalk.
It's not really individual character development that's the issue here.
I fricking wish it were good. I've had "Loser" stuck in my head for days but the series in general has absolutely zero emotional investment whatsoever. They have spent ZERO time on actually developing the story rather than just THING HAPPEN THING HAPPEN THING HAPPEN AAAAA TEN MORE ANTAGONISTS FIFTY MORE CAST MEMBERS SHOVE A SONG IN HERE RESOLVE THIS CHARACTER ARC THAT HASN'T EVEN STARTED AAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
This, people are just going easy on this show because of their high expectations and le indie show despite it not being indie anymore.
I’m stuck in opinion limbo over it really. It has a lot of faults that are normally dealbreakers for me, but its few strengths are so good that I can’t call it “bad” without feeling like I’m throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Steven Universe has the exact same problem for me actually.
Just say it's meh
That's how I feel for a few things; I think it's when you can tell the creators are actually passionate about what they're making. It might be good or bad, but what it absolutely isn't is slop "content."
So its mediocre, which most people are calling this show. It has great ideas but isn't executing them well or is paced horribly due to limit of episodes. I see so many go "WOW SO GOOD" then days later "You know... this could have been better actually."
Mediocre implies the quality is evenly average with no real highs or lows. Hazbin has good points and bad points.
I mean
>Appealing character designs and great visual storytelling
>A musical
>A lore playing with Abrahamic myth and apocrypha, taking place in literal hell and heaven
It feels like it's just got all the ingredients down, but the chef keeps fricking up
At least Ashley was cool with shipping Charlie and Alastor. Even if viv was not.
>Niffty alone
Well frick you too
At first I thought Nifty was shipped with the egg boys because I confused Cherri Bomb for her. But I am going to double down on my mistake and say Nifty should romance one or more of the egg boys.
Niffty x Egg Boys would be funny as frick. I love watching the last two brain cells bounce off each other
It really would. It's definitely the ship that has the most potential for both comedy and adorableness.
>Sir Pentious sleeping in his bed
>Nifty leaps onto him out of nowhere
>Nifty: "snake man snake man wake up!! Wake up hurry!"
>Pentious: "whatssss going on?! Are we under ssssiege again?"
>Nifty, with a nervous wide eye stare: "ummmmmm"
>Pentious: "sssspit it out, nifsss!"
>Nifty, sheepishly: "can the egg boys come out and play?"
>Pentious: "what!? That'ssss why you wake me up? I wasss having a wonderousss dream about that room at the club and -
>Nifty starts to cry a little
>Pentious: "oh alright, EGG BOYSSS! YOU HAVE COMPANY!"
>egg boys pop out
>egg boys: "oh boy, girlfriend time!"
>egg boys and Nifty scamper off, Nifty asks whose been a bad egg
>pentious gets settled back into bed and begins to go back to sleep
>his eyes shoot open
>"girlfriend time?"
>"oh, my little egg boyssss are growing up... but I'm sssstill alone!"
>pentious cries himself to sleep
Kek, but man, I feel that.
More like simps, right anon?
>Niffty completely alone
Viv was right to boot you
Shipping AD and Valentino is a choice I guess.
Sexy Bombs
MADE for Pentius!
He can make her a buff wife!
Found this comment from Reddit on r/movies
>The premise is honestly uninteresting. The show itself is great. The hotel itself is the worst part of the show. Everything going on around the hotel is carrying the show hardcore. The heaven/hell dynamic, Lucifer, whatever the hell Alastor has going on at any given moment.
is this what normies think? They're not really attached to the premise showen in the pilot, they're more interested in the political side of things introduced in episode 1?
Well, as previously said, the titular Hotel plays almost no role in the plot. So it's just weird.
I didn't want Heaven or Overlord politics stuffed into Season 1. Save that for 2 or 3.
You WILL migrate to the next most popular HH thread.
Yes the one with muscular girls (which Vivzie hates)
she does?
That thing in the middle isn't.
Judging by the two dudes on the left and the furry on the right, heaven doesnt really discriminate against gay people.
Buff guys aren't always gay anon...
Its the way they are dressed more than anything else anon
Anon, those are all buff boys with some girls.
>If luck isn't on your side you don't become a hottie or a chad and instead are turned into a furry
I thought this was supposed to be Heaven.
maybe he was a furgay in life
Then he wouldn’t be in Heaven
Unrelated but the "Cherri Buff" thing was actually a trend started by her VA for Addicted
>the ddlg thread
I forgot that one was still up kek.
Yeah man go here.
>he's here