Why does almost every supposed "cautionary tale" in cinema end up glorifying the thing it's trying to criticize?
 It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
 |
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
Why does almost every supposed "cautionary tale" in cinema end up glorifying the thing it's trying to criticize?
because rethuglicans are banning classes on media literacy
because the story hasn't ended yet, you moron?
Isn't in the story not written by Frank Herbert, the israelites end up saving the world.
because there's always a contradiction between the themes conveyed and the cinematography that's being displayed, it's a tale as old as cinema.
It's called Truffaut's law.
Because most directors aren't very good.
Because you're moronic
Huh? Villeneuve went out of his way to make mutt Chani turn to the audience at every turn and say "Paul bad!" Whereas the books were perfect: the first a sort of hero's journey punctuated by the fear of falling into the hands of fate, leading to mass murder, and then a sequel-cum-epilogue showing the consequences of that. No, I don't care if Herbert thought audiences took the first book the wrong way or whatever apocryphal bullshit keeps being memed; if so then he wrote it like a moron and it actually worked well.
>if so then he wrote it like a moron and it actually worked well.
yea that';s the magic of it
>bro losing your face would totally suck, you won't be able to handle the identity crisis
>what do you mean he looks cooler with bandage all over his face?
OP right now
They're only cautionary to smart people.
>bro war is totally bad, like very very bad
>now here's a nice looking segment of helicopters raining fire on people as Wagner plays in the background
they always do this slimy shit, I believe the directors actually wish to romanticize those things but are afraid of the backlash given the moral implications
Unironically, that's what it means to lack "media literacy," y'know? That leftist buzzword you guys sperged out about last month because of a Twitter argument over Starship Troopers? Turns out it's a real thing where you don't just take a film at it's literal face value and actually try to judge it critically. When the US Army blast Wagner as they descend down to massacre Viet Cong, it's to highlight the disconnected and theatrics of the US Army from the grizzly, chaotic reality of the war they were fighting. War didn't look so glorious in the Bridge scene, did it? Did it look cool to be tripped the frick out in them middle of the jungle being pinned down by Viet Cong while knowing backup isn't coming and you're fricked? Or the chaotic scene of the US soldiers dealing with the aftermath of an offensive in a village that's descended into chaos? The US army actually does a lot of theatrics to make war comfortable and would do things like barbeques or bring in Playboy models to do shows for the soldiers to make the reality of the situation they were in less horrifying. To make it feel like home, to make them feel like heroes. You can't reach that level of analysis if you passively watch it and clap at the imagery when it does something "based." Because it's inherently separating those scenes you like that make you feel good from the context that gives them their power and impact, that makes it iconic. But go ahead and call me a troony or a Black person or a israelite for not adhering to the hive mind here or taking these films at their face values so I can pretend they actually support my side.
frick off with your cope, everything you typed read like Coppola going on damage control because he was already done shooting the one scene he spent most of his budget on and knew would look iconic and go down in his legacy as a filmmaker.
if you want the audience to think war is bad don't include your perfidious romantic vision of it right before telling them "it was actually very bad"
what a cowardly way of getting your point across
I don't see the helicopter scene as a theatrics vs reality thing, because it is reality - it's the total absurdity of asymmetrical warfare. It doesn't have to contradict the bridge scene, it's all part of the same ridiculousness.
that was one scene you might think is cool if you didnt bother watching the rest of the film or hell even the next scene where the colonel urges his men to go surfing while there are shells exploding right next to them.
Directors can't really account for low intelligence when they depict things honestly, there will always be a certain part of the audience unable to move past the most superficial elements of the things they see and hear.
That's a failure on the director's to not have the foresight of how people will perceive the things he portrays on screen
it depends on what percentage of the audience don't get it.
>bro war is totally bad, like very very bad
why do troglodytes like yourself always assume that this is the single and only message that every single war film is trying to convey?
Yea that's a well known phenomena and evel real leftists explain it.
Ofc. not these internet "media literacy" pseuds.
https://nieman.harvard.edu/events/2003-joe-alex-morris-jr-lecture/
We can thrill in the perversity of war even as we watch films or read books that were meant to denounce war; it is almost impossible to produce anti-war films or documentaries that present images of battle, it is like trying to condemn pornography while showing erotic love scenes. The fascination with violent death always overpowers the message.
>flight of helicopters burning a village of women and children down all to the tune of nazi music
>why is this a bad thing?
The media literacy people were right. You do realize that the Americans are supposed to be the bad guys right? If this part doesn't knock you over the head with this message, then the scene where the crew gun down a family in their boat over a puppy sure does.
>I deeply wanted to be faithful to Frank Herbert's message about charismatic leaders. I made a lot of changes so people would understand it clearly. Also here's this cool ass shot inspired by Tetsuo in Akira with a worm bursting out of the sand for no reason.
I like Denis' films and everything, but I think he should just come clean and admit he fricking loves Paul and his exploits.
>he fricking loves Paul and his exploits.
like everyone reading the first book and all the directors adapting it to the screen or trying to?
Every single person on earth is drawn to power and having power over others but we're pieces of shit that won't admit it. We want to kill and hurt but we don't because we also get off on pretending we're moral.
>Every single person on earth is drawn to power and having power over others but we're pieces of shit that won't admit it. We want to kill and hurt
Nah. Maybe israelites but not me
Cope. You want to have power over others just like everyone else. To be able to harm them or subjugate them with total control over them is the most pure feeling a human can experience.
>You want to have power over others just like everyone else. To be able to harm them or subjugate them with total control over them is the most pure feeling a human can experience.
Nah, I'm not a israelite. Stop with this israeli projection
You're saying you wouldn't want to have total control and free reign to do anything to the people you hate and that oppose you?
not him, but yes. mb you want it so bad you project it to others. maybe you are right and the wast majority wants that. but I doubt it. the loud ppl maybe. most people can be contempt with peace and prosperity.
not me.
Paul did nothing wrong. His presence was imperfect when he decided upon avengering his father and House and he believed he could prevent Jihad. Expecting that a teen noble who watched his ancestral planetary fief his family has ruled for millennia torn away so his father and everyone his ever known outside his mother could be massacred by an obese, vainglorious pedophile just slink off into exile instead of helping an oppressed indigenous people throw off their imperial oppressors (that Denis fascist/Juche coded) and average them, is a ludicrous expectation. As a member of a great House in general, letting Shaddam get away with what he did wasn't ethical either since it threatened upending their feudal patchwork into an imperial despotism. He did what he thought was right and honorable by his bloodline.
Once he knew Jihad was inevitable, he could no longer prevent it, even by dying (book) or GHs brought on themselves for not recognizing his ascension (movie). The fremen also got everything they wanted, so it's not really a warning against charismatic leaders unless it's from a non-fremen PoV. That's why he mentions Hitler and Genhis Khan, they were only bad for outgroups they killed not for their people whom they built an empire for, especially Khan since his empire actually lasted and he's got a statue in Mongolia now.
>hitler was not bad for the german people
uhhhhh...
you guys just aren't that bright is the problem. in order for a cautionary tale to do it's job it has to show how easy it is to be drawn to the thing they're trying to caution against. the sinster nature of it is still there as a subtext and the creators have faith in you to pick up on it. if you idiots ever found it in yourselves to read the whole of paradise lost you'd all say
>"why did milton make satan the good guy?"
becuase you're such NPCs you fall for ploys perpetrated by fictional characters who were only written to demonstrate why you shouldn't buy the very thing they're selling.
Paul is literally the good guy in the books, fighting against having humanity being longhoused by old annoying hags
he's just the lesser evil. it's inevitable that people will be ruled by maniacs who buy into the bullshit they themselves create to legitimize their rule and the best we can hope for is one that srarted out with good intentions.
>lesser evil
It isn't evil at all, it's just totality.
Leto II commits no evil, because everything is an absolute necessity to the survival of the human species.
i'll have to take your word for it. i only read the first two.
Hes good for pretty much all of dune part 1 imo. When he really became morally questionable to me was after drinking the worm juice and just becoming his mother
I absolutely believe they wanted me to leave the theater and think "Holy frick YEAH YEAH CIVIL WAR KILL THE FRICKING PRESIDENT TANKS IN DC NOW NOW NOW"
There was no "caution" here.
America is doomed to become a failed state if civil war ever breaks out you moron. That's the cautionary tale.
It seems like we are doing a lot of horrible things across the entire planet, and we should probably be punished just for it.
Doesn't seem like a moronic result for our actions.
>become
A cute face + filmed like a gorgeous golden boy = now you will follow this VIP's advice on climate policy to save the earth!
>killing billions of people is bad actually
What if they deserve it though?
For thousands of years people didnt have a lot of decision on if they were going to fight in a war or not. So they ended up just becoming comfortable with the concept.
Now they're able to voice their opinions after seeing media depicting war, and people end upset that these same laymen might as well still apathetically "enjoy" war?
>le author is dead!
>le audience determines interpretation
>le authorial intent is bad
>whoa wait a minute pal... you think the humans were the good guy in this humans vs aliens movie? You're media illiterate, pal
the author is only dead when I don't agree with the intended message
t. moron
hello moron
sup moron
>t. moron
t. moron
yea I know
you've already introduced yourself that way, moron
t. moron
>I am moronic
>I am moronic
>I am moronic
we know, we can see
Thanks moron
Takes the king of morons to be stubborn while showcasing clear moronation. Now go and make a pepe post somewhere.
Ok moron
morons
>Take the cautionary tale advice
>War bad okay, I have no interest in war
>Somebody who didnt take that advice
>Those people look weak we should goto war with them
>Cautionary tale taker has legitimately become weaker and has very little interest in war
>Dies
Seems like a bad result just to agree with rich movie makers
You're not supposed to be against Paul in the very first book, he's the hero in there and everything is working out for him. Dune Messiah and partly Children of Dune is where you start thinking "okay maybe this guy is in the wrong".
Was he? The way I see it, he was a puppet of causality and fate just like everyone else hence why the Reverend Mother tells Jessica there are no sides as they're all equally fricked.
>he was a puppet of causality and fate
He knew it too well, anon. He played his part until he could break off of it too, which is why I said he's the hero, he was not only written as one but he was written to be one, inside and outside of the narrative. It's not wrong to cheer for Paul thematically, which is why I think the choices they made with Chani were too forced, in the book everything was going right for him, Chani accepted being a concubine because she loved Paul and knew her place in history. In the movie they had to create this friction between them to drive the point to the dumber audience that maybe Paul was in the wrong, but Frank Herbert wasn't writing his books for morons and he was playing the long game, so he knew that he could write a series where causality is clear but the reality isn't, more specifically with Paul rejecting the Golden Path.
>everything is working out for him.
Only in the sense that he defeats his enemies. He wasn't trying to become Super Hitler and was actively looking to avoid that scenario.
H-H-hitler? That name should not be uttered, my Funko Pops broke at that utterance!
Not watching this shit until they adapt Chapterhouse Dune. Trailers doesn't look promising anyway.
Same reason horror often ends up becoming comedy if it fails to convey the sense of danger to the audience.
[Verse]
Welcome to Arrakis, I'm Paul, from House Atreid
Land of the spice, sandstorms, and Fremen creed
In the desert, sleep is a rare treat
Battling Harkonnens, even the Guild's elite
Riding worms in a stillsuit, with blue eyes so deep
Brandish my crysknife, secrets of the sand I keep
Stay in shape, train with the Fremen, learn their ways
Get Muad'Dib status, lead through the desert maze
You got stats: Honor, combat skill
Stamina, wisdom, leadership, and a will
You get robes from Sietch Tabr, and Stilgar's kin
Fremen gear, water rings, let the rites begin
Watch your back when you're near the spice
Sardaukar lurking, their ambush ain't nice
Ducking thopters in the spice harvester's shade
Leap out, strike fast, like a desert-made blade
It seems I'm destined for visions so vast
Prophetic dreams, future, present, and past
The Emperor and Harkonnens harass me
Their spies and plots, a constant threat, you see
'Cause Arrakis is full of dangers, my boy
Sign language of the sand is what the Fremen employ
And it's perilous, my boy
Get your mind sharp as your blade, don't be coy
Worms crest, we ride atop the dunes, feel the rush
Circle the siege, before the stormfronts crush
Listen for wormsign, they've got that thump
Back another ride, catch a spice blow, jump
Hitting the dunes, what that desert life like
In a worn stillsuit and the moon's soft light
The same reason you can't make an anti-war movie. A movie, especially a nicely shot one, will always portray war as "cool".
They're not "anti-war" movies.
They make it look that way to draw the moralist "anti-war" crowd.
Then add the cool gunfight, explosion stuff to draw the macho pro war military loving crowd.
It’s all just business
>you're not gonna know that hero worship bad until after the 3rd film which is likely to be released 10 years later
Bravo nolan
Because the act is usually glorious or exhilarating but the person is never happy. Paul became the messiah and the emperor, but he is not happy about any of it.
So Paul should've died?
Yea and Arrakis should've become the messiah of planets.
From some grand perspective, yes. All he really ended up doing was settle a personal blood feud and claim power, at the cost of billions of people. Had he died most people would consider it a better outcome, even people who think the Harkonnens are evil.
Once you get to the sequels, its not like he's the only person capable of walking the golden path either and he even actively chooses not to despite not being able to see anyone else doing it.
Paul doesn't get his comeuppance until the sequels, right?
If you want to have a thorough showcasing of how dangerous war is, showing both the glory and gore is the way to go. War and military procedures are sometimes cool, people are swayed to accept horrible things by charismatic people with conviction. That's how the unwashed masses are swept into wanting war.
But a real issue I had with DUNC and the like was the corporate need to make these movies PG-12 making a mockery of war. If you only show the glory and the only downside is a woman looking at you like this, no shit people are gonna take the warlord's side.
is "media literacy" the new "humiliation ritual"?
you guys only say one thing every 2 weeks
Almost none do.
It’s just that mouthbreathing inbreds cannot see past the first layer of the story and have to take it at face value. It’s a typical thing for people between 70-90 IQ.
Normally intelligent people and people above the curve have no trouble seeing the cautionary tale for what it is. We just deem it so obvious that it does not require discussing it to death.
Wrong. It's not a cautionary tale but a story about fate and causality and how despite thinking he outsmarted fate by enacting the Jihad so he can protect his loved ones, he still loses everything as causality takes no sides.
it's people who need to close the fricking screen once in a while.
clearly not. most married men would give it all up for a week of partying, hookers and coke. to feel truly alive after a life of boundless mediocrity and slow death.
>most married men would give it all up for a week of partying, hookers and coke.
Don’t project your teenage insecurities onto other people. This is complete bullshit.
Lol you're way too young to have such a dangerously sugar coated view of the world. Most married men are not happy nor love their children, they're NPC's who when they get older and more aware of their mortality realize they've never felt an authentic human emotion in their lives and go crazy from that and their own mortality creeping in. The world is cruel and people are animals. There are no such concepts like love, honor, dignity and respect in nature. Nature is faceless and sideless and without any rhyme or reason.
I am at least twice your age, judging by how you write.
It's true, I've experienced it first hand.
>clearly not. most married men would give it all up for a week of partying, hookers and coke. to feel truly alive after a life of boundless mediocrity and slow death.
this is the dumbest thing I've read so far in this entire year
stop projecting everyone is a low inhibition ghetto Black person like you
you can criticize nature all you want, it's going to triumph in the end
hence why we'll end up communists
welcome to israeli subversion and american propaganda
it's all symbolic victories without actual substance
We're not subverting anything at all. Return to your job goyim and don't ask for more in hell.
You are given a prolife story and a trad wife who values monogamy yet you still throw rocks at prophet Denis pbuh.
How hard is it to just say "Don't carry out a jihad in my name" he was too much of a pussy to just say that and let it happen
Boys will be boys.
The worst part of all of this is that this movie gave Brian Herbert a new audience. I've seen people praising him for saying he's ok with Denis' changes
>How can you know more than the authors' son!
This hack should just die already.
Fools.
These movies + Lynch's only made me read the first Dune and stop with that as every single intelligent person that I followed has figured out that Herbert basically hacked it together in a late 50s early 60s contingent way that's not possible to reproduce.
Yeah but are you actually reading Brian Herbert?
Why would I do that?
because satire and nuance are only lost on "dumb" people.
satire is so entertaining and informative for people who can recognize it in the moment, but also
incredibly damaging for people who don't.
its why warmongers are seen as badass and necessary and justifying murder is getting easier and easier.
"smart" people make parodies that are poignant and monstrous looking to them. Then at the same time those same parodies seem badass and counter-culture to "dumb" people because the obvious pretension from the "smart" people is very much dislikable, and rightly so. The less knowledgeable have the natural human desire to want to get back at the powers that be and in doing so take the easy route of taking the stance that is supposed to be reviled and parodied, which is actually clever in of itself as a way to get back at the "pretentious smart people", but is also just an excuse for the devils on their shoulders to revel in doing something bad.
We all have a rapist, murderer, and tyrant somewhere inside us, and sometimes all people need for them to let that devil loose is an authority figure to oppose and a shiny attractive badass glorified thing. To "dumb" people it's not satire, and even if it is, it is still what the "smart" people dislike.
smart and dumb here I use as stand ins for those with decent media literacy and those that do not have good media literacy. I do not mean those with more or less intelligence.
it's counterculture all the way down
satire is only meant to educate you that black males that identify as mexican women are beautiful latinx if you fail to see that we need to defund the police you failed, you're not media literate enough
>pic
Those copy-and-pasted Fremens never cease to look like utter shit. 70 years ago big budget productions could afford good costumes for thousands of extras.
Nobody thought Paul was the bad guy in Dune until trannies started campaigning for Dune part 2
The original book is a celebration of Paul and you're moronic if you think otherwise
It's not the movies, it's you.
these movies are on the level of the prequels, they won't be fondly remembered or impact anything
is dune 2 worth watching?
It was but you missed out. Watch it on streaming and then when Dune 3 comes out in like five years or whatever go see both in a proper cinema when they're playing again.
it was and you're just in time
it went online recently and there's lots of torrents around
what are you expecting out of it? It won't be a memorable experience and if you're tired of CG crap it's not for you at all.
I hated Dune 1 and yes it's alright.
The books are of course 1000000x time better.
Because Hollywood doesn’t understand nuance
What is it supposed to be criticising? Religion?
chuds
slow board today
because you are a moronic subhuman