Why does everyone hate this movie?
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Why does everyone hate this movie?
Why does everyone hate this movie?
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A historical young teenager being kidnapped forcibly assimilated by forcibly removing sacred tattoos on her sexually assaulted being framed as a love story.
Even the Dynasty Warriors fans when I'm happy and making light of that.
Not a worthy followup to The Lion King
Clear beginning of the purposeful pandering princess trend that continues to this day
Apparently it was made alongside the lion king and was seen internally as the big project all the animators wanted to be involved in, being assigned to the lion king was almost a punishment
Its pretty fricking boring and as I've grown older, the oscar bait elements have become more apparent.
It's just kind of boring. People point to the historical inaccuracies but honestly that's not so big of a deal compared to how boring the movie is. If it wasn't for Colors of the Wind and Savages it'd probably be completely forgotten today, easily the weakest entry from the Renaissance era.
Because "racism" and being inaccurate to real world events.
Because it's boring, for like 90% of its runtime.
It was made to be Oscar-bait in the most obvious eye rolling way aside from being an odd romanticization of a real historical figure which is very different from taking a fairytale and making it safe.
>being an odd romanticization of a real historical figure which is very different from taking a fairytale and making it safe.
Mulan and Attila the Hun where not real?
Most colonial era pieces is still too recent to be making idealized Romeo and Juliet revisionist history flicks about. I think it's part of the reason we don't see many fantasy stories in general set in this time era.
Is there any way for them to do the best bromance romance Tecumseh and Major General block without the war of 1812?
Mulan was based on a folk song known as the ballad of Mulan, it unknown whether Mulan was real at all.
For Mulan, it's heavily debated if she was real. There are so many random sources with conflicting beats that appear in so many different texts. At this point, if she was real, her story has become a legend.
With Pocahontas, we have so much archived info and actual records that trace back to her to 100% confirm many, many parts of her life and existence. So in that regard, it's still kind of weird. I don't have much comment about Disney making a fictionalized version of Attila the Hun though.
>Attila the Hun
The hawk guy isn't meant to be Attilla. Attilla attacked Romans not chinos
I think you meant not Chinese.
He was also famous for his hatred of smart-casual.
And yet people love The Prince of Egypt.
Yeah but this isn't about the prince of egypt, that was the typical sentiment about Pocahontas when it came out.
>Disney: We're gonna make a totes serious movie about Pocahontas
>It's boring
It probably would've been better received if they had stuck closer to the original source(maybe not the age stuff for obvious reason), about much Pocahontas got screwed over.
they tried to reconcile natives and the white man but they picked bad source material and didnt actually reconcile anything.
neither side of the political spectrum has anything to gain from defending it so nobody is going to
You do know knee just reaction politics was not a thing at the time they made the movie, yes?If it was 100 years earlier the KKK might have made a fuss about it but nobody bought it asking the name of Americans how they felt about making a kidnap story I wanted that teenagers into a Love Story made them feel, It probably helped there was no internet at the time so if the news sources didn't want it The general public to see the problem they could stop it from happening.
I don't hate it, but I think the ending having this very 90's implication of, "MAYBE SOME DAY... WE CAN LEARN TO GET ALONG" but applying that to a period where the two groups certainly didn't and one has a clear victor is kind of in bad taste. I'm pretty sure that line is said by the fricking native chief of all people.
As a kid I loved it because I loved nature, but it became awkward when I learned the history of the real Pocahontas. I've been meaning to rewatch it though because I haven't seen it since then.
I was surprised to see it referenced in The Proud Family reboot, I figured Disney would rather avoid it in the current day.
Pocahontas was in Wreck-It Ralph 2.
I think audiences are fine with the actual Disney version of the character even if a lot of people agree the movie is weird. I think if Disney decided to make some Pocahontas cartoon before she met John Smith and it was just a bunch of Native American tales and legends with Pocahontas frontrunning it, audiences would easily accept it.
Yeah, I don't think we're ever going to see John Smith acknowledged by Disney in any regard again. Pocahontas will be fine.
Honestly considering what it says about his governorship about what he did to his own people and the fact were taking the word of two guys for everything being the Native Americans fault we sent it treat the historical account as sacred this man was a good man and the Indians were the bad guys what happened to Pocahontas on the other hand was clear as day an act of aggression disrespect and would be considered a human rights violation today.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ratcliffe_(governor)
>would be considered a human rights violation today.
It was pretty standard practice at the time, especially among the Native tribes.
It was standard policy among neighbor american tribes to kidnap the chief's daughter and hold off hostage to force comscience?
Yes
did you think Europeans of the age didn't also take political hostages? are you moronic? everybody did it. countries still do it.
Yes I obviously knew Europeans of the age took political hostages I was talking about that's what was wrong about the story of Pocahontas taking her as a hostage as a teenage girl.
Human rights violations were par for the course long after these events
See: Sherman's razing of Atlanta
The funniest thing for me was learning that Ratcliffe IRL believed in coexistence with the natives, and was ambushed by the Powhatan and flayed alive by mussel shells, when he had hoped they'd give his colony food as they were starving to death. Really leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you watch the movie with that in mind, knowing that it villainizes someone that actually believed in coexistence and was killed by the people he wanted to coexist with.
Ouch
See
>Shit villain
>Shit songs
>Oscar bait
>So-so dialogue
Only thing it has going for it is the art.
>Shit songs
mmmm nah
>1989: The Little Mermaid
>1990: DuckTales movie/The Rescuers Down Under
>1991: Beauty and the Beast
>1992: Aladdin
>1994: The Lion King
>1995: A Goofy Movie/Pocahontas
It felt different to the recent 2D movies which Disney released in theaters
Savages is probably the best Disney song ever
John Smith was a much more interesting person in real life.
>Smith you dastardly mutineer! Now we've made land it's time for you to face the gallows!
>But first, let's open our orders and see who is to lead the colony...
Fricking Hell. That's like a joke out of Blackadder, would love to have seen their faces.
It's definitely the worst Disney animated film of its era, a historically inaccurate movie with a flat, uninteresting storyline. The only redeeming factor was the score.
It was a weird Era, it seemed like they were going for things outside their wheelhouse but ended up watering them down to make them more palatable anyway.
No adaptation of a Victor Hugo story should have a happy ending.
Happy Ending versions of Hunchback for the stage have existed since Victor Hugo was alive and eager to sell out.
Typical politician
boring
Brown girls love pocahontas
Yeah, until they open a history book.
I hated it in 1995 but it holds up really well compared to the glut of CG slop vomited out by Disney over the past 20 years.
isnt this the movie where animators who weren’t good and worthy enough were sent to work on Likn King as “punishment”?
Yeah, I remember reading that story somewhere.
Yeah. The irony is palatable. And to be fair, Pocahontas does LOOK good. It just kind of sucks in every other way outside of the music.
Yeah, the Disney animators bought into the "Pocahontas will win Best Picture at the Oscars" hype and dismissed Lion King as some dumb talking animal movie with Elton John.
Kind of funny this movie was allowed to stay around whilst Song of the South has been demonized for decades.
There aren't enough Native Americans making a loud enough stink about social and pop culture issues for corporations to notice. Consider that Redskins was only changed because of a black dude dying, it had nothing to do with Native American protest.
afaik different groups of natives fricking hate each other so no wonder they haven't reach a consensus like black people did
It was cutting edge anti-racism at the time.
But than the definitions, standards, and historical reading changed. It's a real life case of "we have always been at war with Eurasia". Just goes to show how utterly inhuman the anti-racists are. A legitimate White supremist who advocates mass genocide like me has more appreciation for the ancestors of the current anti-racists than their own spawn do. I can appreciate it artistically even if I don't agree with it. Like imagine going back in time and telling the people working on this smiling about their "progress" what people in the future think of them. And they would say "But I did everything I was told was right!"
no it wasn't you stupid homosexual
magical minorities have been a topic of criticism for many decades, and that's all pocahontas is aside from the part where they pretended moving into someone else's land was a both sides situation
>A legitimate White supremist who advocates mass genocide like me has more appreciation for the ancestors of the current anti-racists than their own spawn do.
You think people are inhuman because they are willing to denounce the bad practices of their ancestors that got them ahead in life ?
The movie was still criticized in the 90s for the same reasons people criticize it today, zoomie.
Still more respectable than Road to El Dorado
People sure are fricking dumb. Pocahontas, like a lot of historical fiction, wasn't meant to accurately depict the time period or the real people. It used a historical setting and characters to tell a story relevant to the time it was written. Like virtually every play Shakespeare wrote.
What you said really reminds me of this video especially the ending part where he provides some context.
Medieval Knights were Surprisingly Thirsty
Too heavy for kids who got blueballed of a happier ending
Too whimsical for adults
It's pretty mediocre and was released in the middle of one of the Disney Renaissance, which is one of the strongest runs of animated movies in studio has ever done. Which only made it look worse.
At least Disney released A Goofy Movie and Toy Story on the same year.
>A Goofy Movie
>Pocahontas
>Toy Story
>Balto
>Whisper of the Heart
>Ghost in the Shell
1995 was a good year for animation movies
>old enough to remember Pocahotas being released
>still thinks like an edgy teenager
As someone of probably a similar age that's kind of embarrassing, tbh. There are more choices than being proud or ashamed of history. Like recognising that you weren't even alive at the time, so you weren't responsible for any of it and should neither feel pride nor shame for something you didn't fricking do.
>my ancestor
is fricking stupid whoever is doing it. It's just a way to live vicariously though other people's achievements instead of your own.
>Like recognizing that you weren't even alive at the time
They won't let you take that stance. Because you are White you will be an outlet for their frustration. You can't even apply for a job or be promoted without taking what your ancestors did into consideration. That's the basis for a lot of programs now.
>It's just a way to live vicariously though other people's achievements instead of your own.
No one lives or accomplishes alone. Parents, friends, fiction, history, they all directly affect where you are going. How you feel about yourself influences your direction. Even monks who lock themselves in caves and spend their life sitting still are influenced by the past.
Oh. And once again you are still on the hook for what your ancestors did even if you don't want.
>You can't even apply for a job or be promoted without taking what your ancestors did into consideration. That's the basis for a lot of programs now.
And somehow despite a formative action and other such programs let's qualify right people often get the job open more qualifying minorities on a regular basis.
>They won't let you take that stance. Because you are White you will be an outlet for their frustration. You can't even apply for a job or be promoted without taking what your ancestors did into consideration.
Frankly Anon, that sounds a lot like the exact kind of victim complex you're accusing minorities of. I have taken that stance. No-one has demanded I pledge allegiance to the cause of historical reparations and grievances or frankly, even asked me how I feel about this issue irl. I don't know where you are or what field you work in but this hasn't caused me any problems.
>no one lives or accomplishes alone. Parents, friends, fiction, history, they all directly affect where you are going. How you feel about yourself influences your direction.
Sure. But who to listen to, who to ignore, who to associate with and what to believe from all of these sources of influence is all still within your control. To claim otherwise is to infantilise yourself and deny your free will.
>No-one has demanded I pledge allegiance to the cause of hi
There are financial incentives for companies to get a high ESG rating. At the state level, the federal level, and the corporates level. Once again. You might think you don't see color but you are forced to participate in the color games. This isn't a "victim complex" it's straight up facts. You might not under up with a doctor who was less qualified but the right skin color. You might not. But other people will. And isn't just doctors it happens at every level and ripples through society.
All you do is repeat things I heard decades. That's just what you are used to thinking and saying. We can do you "you do you" thing where I continue to be racist and you continue to "not see color". But we are both going to live in the same world in which it is impossible to not interact with the race game whether you know it or not. I didn't bother reading what you said after the green text part. I don't see a point in continuing the talk if you are just going to saying things that I heard decades ago. You're boring. Cya.
>There are financial incentives for companies to get a high ESG rating.
You mean incentives that are negligible? And company still higher less minorities even when they're more qualified than the white people they are hiring?
That's fine Anon, you needn't bother to read this, my main disagreement was over the topic of whether people had to be "proud" or "ashamed" of history anyway and I think we both said our piece on that. However I will just add that
>You might think you don't see color
>and you continue to "not see color"
is not something I ever said nor is it something I agree with. That is simply your own assumptions about the kind of person I am.
>I didn't bother reading what you said after the green text part.
Yes you did. You just don't want to acknowledge it because you have no rebuttal. You hate radical minority activists because they remind you of your own weakness. They're like you, in that they also refuse to take responsibility for their own life outcomes. Except you're here seething because you're grievances get mocked while they get put on a pedestal. It's unfair, isn't it?
He thinks for himself and you just regurgitate government schooling. Any conscious thinking person with a grip on reality doesn't even consider what he's saying to be opinion.
actual moron
>They won't let you take that stance. Because you are White you will be an outlet for their frustration. You can't even apply for a job or be promoted without taking what your ancestors did into consideration. That's the basis for a lot of programs now.
You realize you're not obligated to list your race on job applications, right? You can even lie about it, companies can't dispute it. That's all it takes to subvert ESG quotas. Despite your persecution complex, studies continue to prove that whites are more likely to get a callback and a job offer compared to minorities with identical resumes and qualifications
You're only deferring responsibility for your own actions by feeling pride or guilt over shit you had nothing to do with. I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt this badly by twitter lunatics, but most of us are thin-skinned to write them off as crazy. You're also somewhat small-minded for thinking that genocide and colonialism are the only ways to introduce electricity to people
>Like imagine going back in time and telling the people working on this smiling about their "progress" what people in the future think of them.
It wouldn't come as a surprise, they knew at the time the film was historically inaccurate.
>but most of us are thin-skinned to write them off as crazy
*are thick-skinned enough to write them off as crazy.
Bleh
So they fugged at one point, right?
Yeah, and they probably used a corn cob as a double sided dildo.
I don't. Give me a live-action autistic Pocahontas, Disney (for representation)
>Those people were the minority.
In your life perhaps. Did you forget that the world wasn't as connected then as it is now, and you weren't exposed to the opinions of thousands everyday? Where I am, most people thought Pocahontas was in bad taste. I see no difference today.
>Those White ancestors got everyone ahead. Unless you think the reds and blacks were better off with no electricity, living in huts, and eating each other
You think they were better off being sent to get you molested and alcoholic school in order to make you see yourself as white but teach you no useful skills School and get beaten on a regular basis?Also do you have any evidence for cannibalism being normal among those groups ?
Couple years ago I was seeing the scariest disney songs of all time or something like that, and "Savages" was #1 because nothing is scarier than racism, lmao.
The only things I remember this movie for was the SAVAGES song and Pocahontas' friend was kinda cute
Speak in a Disney vacation.I want a version of China's 3kingdoms
One of the best Disney kisses
>decide to actually to the lyrics of Savages
THIS is what they thought Oscar bait sounds like?
It was kind of mid at the time and was sandwhiched between some of the greatest Disney films ever made. Kids didn't care for it because the ending wasn't romantic enough and adults didn't care for it because it wasn't historically inaccurate. Then again, only a small fraction of people even know the actual history of Pocahontas because the story was somewhat sanitized for decades prior
Disney can't tell the difference between real world history and a Grimm fairy tale
It's fricking boring that's what it is. The only compliment I can give to Disney's Pocahontas is this, Disney had the spine to show BOTH the Indians and English as capable of being violent thugs. The usual politically correct idiot would depict the Indians as hippie pacifists.
That said the writing of Disney's Pocahontas was awful. Ratcliffe is not a villain and how he died in real life? Frick Disney to hell. Also what the frick was up with the stupid Pocahontas and her tribe can randomly speak British English because of a tree singing a song? And another thing worth mentioning is how can THESE Indians eventually get conquered given they have obvious nature fueled super powers? Grandmother Willow alone could command the entire forest to get rid of any foreigner. Disney's Pocahontas is such badly written dreck.
I hate the art style of this movie. Pocahontas looks like an alien. Her design is like a worse version of Chris Sander's art style from Lilo and Stitch. She looks awkward and somewhat malformed in her facial structure.
If you don't know the real history, it's an okay watch.
If you do know the real history, it's extremely uncomfortable.
I still think this movie will one day have a similar reputation to Song of the South
Well you're wrong because if you go on the Disney Princess site she's right there.
>I think this will happen in the future
>You're wrong because it hasn't happened
Back then, native women critizised Pocahontas as looking too much like Naomi Campbell, hence they hated the movie since Pocahontas was too hot.
Nowadays, people hate the movie not only for portraying a hot woman as its protagonist, but also because how dare anyone show a fictional romance story between a woman of colour and *gasp* a white male.
And also, people can't rationalize Pocahontas being a sexy brown girl.
I'm pretty sure it has a lot more to do with the fact get this was not a romance in history but child molesting rape. Also they never had an issue with her looking beautiful whatsoever.
I'd love to see official artwork portraying an older and top heavy version of Pocahontas kek
>top heavy version of Pocahontas
She was already top heavy in the film.
Would you a captive, young and sexy injun, Cinemaphile?
Besides the songs like Colors of the Wind, its easily one of the weakest movies during the renaissance era objectively.
Disney doesn't make films like this anymore, and that's a shame.
overall its a very boring movie
but Colors of the Wind was a damn fine song and was nicely animated
The story is a mess. It tries to have a message but it ends up doing the typical "both sides are bad" liberal bullshit to the point that it whitewashes history. If they wanted to do a Native American movie they should have done something based on mythology, there's plenty of cool stories they could have gone with that wouldn't have required any kind of forced messaging.
It does look and sound quite nice though. If you can turn your brain off it's an enjoyable enough movie.
Disney animator who joined in 1988 and left in 2001
Who? Looks like Kathy Zielinski or Chris Wahl.
It's Chris Wahl