Why does this ending upset people so much?
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Why does this ending upset people so much?
Why does this ending upset people so much?
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Because the idea of Bruce's dna being a magical thing that makes you Batman is weird and uneeded.
well it wasn't just the dna
he clearly started taking roids
This, it was a moronic concept. the shit with Bruce and Ace was amazing and could be adapted into its own film at this point. Terry being the clone child of Bruce makes zero sense and demeans everything Terry did
>the shit with Bruce and Ace was amazing
I found that to be the stupidest part. Waller gets the idea to clone a new Batman, ruin a man's balls to do it, and then have him killed just because Batman was nice to a dying reality-warper?
Does every moron willingly ignore that the end specifically says that dna WASN'T what made Terry Batmam? And this was the plan all along since the beginning, Terry looks nothing like his father for fricks sake, they blatantly spell it out to you
I don't buy it being the plan from the start and it being more a case of they didn't care on the genetic probabilities of two people of their complexion having a kid with dark hair. They didn't even seem to have this plan until the second Batman Beyond movie they didn't get to make where Selina was going to be the one who orchestrated it.
And it really doesn't matter how much the ending says "You're your own man" the fact that they made it so "we made it so you're his biological son and psychologically profiled your parents to give you a similar upbringing as Bruce" really takes away from a lot of the agency. The point is you didn't need to do this, we accepted who Terry was like a decade earlier, he was already his own man. By doing this you made him LESS his own man just to return us to where we already were.
Bruce Timm even said that was the plan from the beginning a d the fact that Terry is Bruce's son is meant to highlight that DNA didn't matter but people are too stupid to get this. Terry was a good Batman because he was Terry, not because he was Bruce's son.
>DNA didn't matter
Then why include It at all?
>dna WASN'T what made Terry Batman
then why include it as a plot point in the first place
What gets me is that the point of Beyond is that Batman can be someone entirely different. It'd still be dumb without that in mind, but that pushes it over the edge. This episode is genuinely bad fanfic in my eyes and I've never heard any kind of reasonable rationale to defend it.
Because making Terry Bruce's son the whole time was a fricking joke and undid so much of what made Beyond great, that literally anybody could be Batman if they just had the willpower and Bruce's trust.
Third post best post
Yet spider-gays shit their pants when you suggest anyone could be spider-man
Because Spider-man has superpowers...
Okay, and… there’s has to be a spider man in the spiderverse who doesn’t have powers and is more like Batman/iron man
Terry is literally "What if Batman was Spiderman and also it was the future?"
I mean nobody tried taking Peter's sperm and replaced another man's sperm with it, right?
1. Superpowers as someone already mentioned
2. Unlike miles, Terry was a trained successor and a good half of the show is terry proving himself
3. Didn’t push Bruce out of the way, kept him as a mentor, unlike the miles situation
is literally canon that all spidermen have the same dna, except miles.
Miles is more of a "a BLACK GUY could be Spider-man" than an "anyone could be Spider-Man"
yeah that was always funny to see when the entire concept of spider-man is that peter got his powers through sheer luck and that it could've been anyone in his place unlike batman who needs to be an autistically devoted rich man and exceptional genetics
There was no need to make Terry batman's son. This post says it best
It would have been cool if they tried it with someone else and failed
Because those idiots missed the point of the twist, it's not about what it means for Terry, it's about what it means for Bruce. After decades of being alone and bitter, he finally found family again.
>that literally anybody could be Batman
Get the frick out of here, homosexualverse gay.
What made Beyond great was WB wanting a teenage Batman, Timm and Dini fighting against having Bruce become Batman as a teenager, and thinking a futuristic cyberpunk Gotham would be cool.
>Because those idiots missed the point of the twist, it's not about what it means for Terry, it's about what it means for Bruce. After decades of being alone and bitter, he finally found family again.
I love this take, shame that it's not what the episode accentuates or lingers on
Batman is at it's core a story about a man who lost his family. This was the perfect way to conclude that story.
>Because those idiots missed the point of the twist, it's not about what it means for Terry, it's about what it means for Bruce. After decades of being alone and bitter, he finally found family again.
terrible cope, so you can only ever feel connection to someone unleas he is your literal dna.
This is the guy that has been running in his underpants through the city with at least 3 teenagers, he only ended up alone because his perfectionist, which Terry proved to be beyond (heh) his expectations time and time again.
But no, let's pretend is actually bittersweet and heartwarming.
That's moronic given that Bruce is probably the DC character that best exemplifies accepting a family beyond simple blood. He lost those teenagers because he was an emotionally cut off butthole who'd let the idea he couldn't let others in make him sabotage that....also clown rape.
>That's moronic given that Bruce is probably the DC character that best exemplifies accepting a family beyond simple blood.
Seriously good point
>Terry shows up
>is basically like a son to Bruce already
>helps him restore his relationships with Barbara and Tim
>maybe patched things up with Dick offscreen?
>none of this counts unless they're related by blood
Terrible take.
>After decades of being alone and bitter, he finally found family again
Stealing a man's building blocks and creating offspring without his consent, does not family make.
The part that bothers me most about this ending was, what about Mr. McGinnis? He gets his lineage cut off by a cruel trick to say nothing of getting actually murdered, all due to an ambitious bureaucrat's scheme.
The one good thing about it, is that it made me even more paranoid about vaccinations in general.
And somehow him finding family again doesn't count unless it's his spermjacked secret son?
Funnily enough Damian's existence makes this even more fricking moronic in retrospect
That still holds true, because Terry and Bruce are 2 separate human beings. Simply being related by blood isn't a guarantee of anything
Batman isn’t fricking Spider-Man. Not anybody can be Batman.
Cope.
Not anyone can be Batman but anyone can try to be Batman.
but the guy coming from money can, we get it, Elon.
lol no anon. The point isn't that anyone could be Spider-Man but that Spider-Man could be anyone. You have to actually get powers to be Spider-Man
that's like the reverse of the point, MORE people could be Batman than Spider-Man because you don't need to get bit by a radioactive spider and chosen by the Spider Gods as a totem of spiders to be Batman, he's literally just a fricking guy
Oh no, you need to be a billionaire with emotional trauma to be Batman moron
Because modifying Terry's dad into producing Bruce sperm is a bad and also moronic idea
I loved how the story was told from Miranda's perspective and shit. But making Terry his genetic clone or whatever the frick was the biggest BS in the entire show.
It's like some sick mockery. As if some homosexual watched THE BOYS FROM BRAZIL and said to himself
"What if this .. but batman!, Hey that's pretty good"
Always made me think of les enfants terribles, although I'm suprised someone hasn't tried solid and liquid batman.
That was actually the initial idea. Catwoman was going to be cloning Batman, Terry was one and there's be another Batman son/clone, closer to BTAS, who was Catwoman's son and semi-implied lover like the senator in the Manchurian Candidate
>As if some homosexual watched THE BOYS FROM BRAZIL and said to himself
I think that's pretty clear; Bruce Timm is a 60's/70's kid and it colors his work.
I don't really mind it tbh. I didn't need to be that way, but it's an interesting twist. By that point, I think Terry was clearly not like Bruce anyways. He is the only Batman I ever felt was Batman besides Bruce.
Because it takes agency out of terry becoming Batman. Just made everything seem hollow when it was just “preordained” due to him being a clone. But I guess it’s closer to real life that genetics determine everything about your life and none of this “anyone can be a hero” bullshit.
>when it was just “preordained”
Wasn't the whole point of the story that it was still a coincidence?
>Wasn't the whole point of the story that it was still a coincidence?
Yes. That's what a lot of these plebs miss. Nothing pushed Terry to being Batman. It happened by pure chance. In the grand scheme of things, Terry and his brother being Bruce's biological sons ultimately amounts to nothing because it had absolutely nothing to do with his reasons to become Batman. Terry is Batman for his own reasons, not because he was meant to be or some bullshit. He's his own man.
You're the pleb + incel + fat.
>You're the pleb
You mean patrician.
>incel
volcel.
>fat
I am fat.
>But I guess it’s closer to real life that genetics determine everything about your life and none of this “anyone can be a hero” bullshit.
This is the only reason why I can't completely shit all over it.
Of course Terry is as effective a Batman as Bruce, because some other random dysgenic schmuck on the street would likely have had their Bat career ended almost instantly.
Making a "you were special all along" reveal almost always takes more away from the character than what it gives to them
it turns Batman into a privilege.
it reduces Terry to a wad of cum
Everyone is a wad of cum
Unnecessary and creepy.
I love it
>Anyone can be Batman they just gotta believe!
>lol no you little shit we made you
Terry should be his own man like the Robins.
Because it's kind of pointless. The whole point was to bring up drama for a question the original series answered a lot better without dwelling on it. We already knew Terry was his own kind of Batman, we didn't need to make him Bruce's literal son just to say "but he's his own man too".
Also the plan was just dumb "we hired probably the most conspicuous assassin we could, and expect Terry to just kind of not blame them personally and blame crime in general like Bruce did"
This. The best part about this epilogue is that you can just ignore it altogether and are probably better off doing so.
As a kid who hadn't been following the greater "DCAU", it felt like it came out of fricking nowhere in the Justice League cartoon, especially after such a conclusive ending the episode before.
I can understand it with hindsight and more knowledge, but it really just felt superfluous at the time for a character who I'd only seen a few episodes of.
To be honest I was more upset with Terry almost giving up on the mantle and letting Gotham City devolve into an eternal shithole when I was a kid. The DNA never upset me.
Gotham IS an eternal shithole anon... that's the point.
>and letting Gotham City devolve into an eternal shithole
If Bruce couldn't fix it even after 50 years of being Batman it can't be fixed.
He's only one man and did really nothing to push, say, gotham's police force in a better direction. Which, lets be honest, with as much money as Bruce had he could easily have done.
>and did really nothing to push, say, gotham's police force in a better direction
What do you mean? There's multiple episodes that show him supporting gotham through philanthropy and he was even friends with the DA and was helping him with projects.
I guess nothing is hyperbolic. He could've done more.
>with as much money as Bruce had he could easily have done.
You'll love Gotham Knights CW's Batman then...
The frick I will.
what are you even talking about
>almost
so a nothing burger? what are you even talking about???
If he ever appears again in a sequel series or an animated movie I hope they retcon this.
Because it completely undercuts Terry as a character: he's not Batman because he earned it, he's Batman because he's genetically predisposed to be Batman.
That episode where the suit is taken over by the mind uploaded AI, or whatever, was made almost completely meaningless in retrospect, because Terry's anxiety about whether it was his own skills or the suit's tech are both overshadowed by Bruce's DNA.
I still say the whole thing is salvageable because Waller could just be a crazy old lady spinning a yarn just to frick with Bruce one last time.
They could have it simply be a case of mistaken identity. Or maybe have it so that tech to make the designer baby was faulty. In the case of it being mistaken identity, they could even make the real designer baby, a huge part of Terry's rogue gallery or just make him an average joe. Further pushing the narrative that DNA doesn't make Batman.
It justified eugenics.
That seems to be happening a lot lately.
It's a vehicle for Bruce Timm's cuckoldry fetish.
because it tells you terry on his own cold not be batman they had to make him his son just to have a good ending to batman beyond
batman beyond is a great idea executed poorly deal with it schway
It genuinely doesn't matter.
I thought
>why not just grow the baby in a tube from scratch
until I remembered they were planning to assassinate the parents down the line in order to most accurately simulate the Batman™ experience
the fricking episode states that terry didn't become batman just because of bruce's dna. they tried to make a new batman, but gave up, yet terry still went on to become batman because that's the kind of person he is.
it's a classic tale of nature vs. nurture.
Still dumb he has to be tied into Batman in anyway before meeting Bruce.
way to ignore like all of the episode, they Terry parts were dogshit and then Barbara was going to kill his parents and the fact she even went along with it was fricked. Terry was basically told "he has Bruce's Heart and thats enough" the problem is that it really kinda does a path of destiny thing for Terry and goes "oh yeah it doesnt matter that you are a clone of bruce but also lol you are a clone of bruce"
>the problem is that it really kinda does a path of destiny thing for Terry
it does the exact opposite. they tried to create a path of destiny for him, but pussied out.
terry isn't the son of bruce. he's terry.
>Barbra
It was Andrea.
I wanted Melanie/10 to come back
Because it's stupid.
Personally Im sick of the "golden gene" crap plaguing shonen where you cant be somebody unless you are the son/reincarnation/lost descendant of some big figure.
Terri being Bruce's biological son robs him of being Batman on his own merit, no matter who he was before.
I was hoping that Demon's Back is not some "super-special Hanma blood" thing and kept expecting some non-related fighter to develop it, but kept getting disappointed.
Primarily because it made Terry feel less special. Instead of being this teen who takes up the mantle by chance, a hero who through sheer will becomes a worthy successor to the legendary batman, he was preordained to inherit the title. Much of Batman Beyond was about Terry being different from Bruce and in some ways trying to craft his own path as a hero. Epilogue tries to have its cake and eat it too by suggesting Terry is still his own man. That's all well and good, but what's gained from this story? Was anyone seeking an explanation for this? Was there that painful need to explain why Terry had black hair? It just feels like an unnecessary complication. It's like if Bruce Wayne's father was retconned to actually be Alfred. It adds some drama but ultimately ends up not mattering too much anyway. So why do it?
>whole show is about Terry coming to understand he will never be like Bruce and that's okay
>introduce retcon that reveals he's Bruce's son because Waller cucked his father out of his own nutsack
Feels kind of unnecessary.
It's weird that a site so full of racists is against the idea of genetic determinism.
Go back to morondit.
Justified Cuck Fetish. Just like how Timm had Batman cuck Robin out of batgirl, how Superman's father is a cuck in Gods and Monsters, the whole entire Green Lanturn X Hawkgirl right down to ancient history, etc.
>say doc, this won't make me cum someone else's sperm, right
>Yeah yeah sure whatever.
Everyman heroes are better than "Destined Chosen Ones made to fight for good!"
I can't speak for anyone else but it just makes me sick that the Batwank became so prevalent that Terry, as Batman II, can't even be his own man anymore. No he HAS to be Bruce Wayne's son, it's impossible for anyone unrelated to Bruce to be Batman.
And that's not even getting into how much canon they have retcon just to make the possibility even remotely feasible. I wonder if there was a moment in the writers room where they realized that none of this makes sense.
Terry was better as some kid who got (un)lucky, it was part of his charm
I was introduced to the weird idea of DNA overwriting during pregnancy as a fetish thing so this just seems like a weird kink tied to this character's legacy to me.
Him being Bruce's son didn't really answer questions to me. Terry was always more of an everyman. He needed Bruce's support because he wasnt quite as "larger than life" than him. And Bruce often gained a perspective from Terry that he himself never had, due to growing up in a different time with different privileges.
Making him not only his actual son, but some sort of designed ubermensch who's conception was the result of an conspiracy... Does not really match up with what they got.
Also I know people bring up him not looking like ether parent, but nether did his brother. Is his brother a Bruce baby too?