Why doesn't Cinemaphile ever talk about this film? Was it too much for us?
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Why doesn't?
Why doesn't Cinemaphile ever talk about this film? Was it too much for us?
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It was kino.
literally just watched it earlier. pretty alrighr
It's pretty kino, but as a Scorsese fan I find it too derivative and as a comic fan I don't really get anything out of seeing Joker so far removed from his usual context.
>It's pretty kino
That's the long and short of it. If it's good it's good. Stop feeling guilty about liking shit.
>Ohh no, it takes inspiration from other things I like!
How did this ever become a criticism
It thinks it's much smarter than it actually is. Lacks subtlety or depth compared to the movies it rips off. Same in regards to Reeve's Batman and how it rips off Fincher (and I like that movie).
Both capeshit and "animation is cinema" types slobber over anything with a veneer of depth out of shame for liking escapist media instead of enjoying without shame as C.S. Lewis said. That's how you get MCU fans claiming Winter Soldier was some kind of political thriller. Or Clone Wars fans claiming it isn't a kids show because it features themes like war crimes and political conspiracies (when there is great young adult fiction that deals with shit darker than that).
And to build off my point I think part of the acclaim of Andor and Joker is how they crib from prestige media so fans of escapist IP media like Star Wars/capeshit latch onto them because:
1. They don't consume much prestige media.
2. They can validate their fandom by showing it can be deep.
Well, it lands a tiny little close to the killing joke with that "one bad day" shit. But this is sure not the joker.
>Scorsese
The guy can't even pull in 1b box office. He's not that good
It's still one of my favourite movies
Remember when the media kept hyping this as the next mass shooting target?
Until there was a machete fight at Frozen 2
You wouldn't get it.
Better than most cape movies, but not as good as the crime movies it was inspired by.
Good film spreading awareness of how shit getting mental help is. Makes sense the media tried so hard to downplay it and create some fear of ''incels'' when the message is actually super important, but is largely an issue men are facing. So can't have that in modern times. I'm glad it got made.
However, as a Batman comic movie, it's pretty bad. You really can't imagine Batman fighting this guy in any way. I'm fine with that though. I think the message it conveys is more important than seeing two buff dudes fight.
>You really can't imagine Batman fighting this guy in any way.
I always thought he'd be sort of a crime boss joker since he becomes a sort of populist figure towards the end of the movie -- plenty of henchmen available a la tyler durden.
>media tried so hard to downplay it and create some fear of ''incels'' when the message is actually super important
Do you think the people who control the media want a movie that highlights the flaws in the mental healthcare system?
Ewwww angry white guy film.
A Middle-Eastern guy playing a White guy
We don't usually "talk about" anything.
it's just a rip off of taxi driver
It's just a rip off of my foreskin
>absolute pleb take
mediocre taxi driver clone that relied on controversy to make money.
>No one talks about this aymore
>Bros.. Was this FOTY?
Idiots.
It was certainly the movie of all time
Didn't care for it. Wasn't my scene but I don't hate it.
Derivative, Paint Scorcese By Numbers
Phoenix elevates the material I guess, but you can just watch a dozen better performances of his with worthy writing like The Master. Not being facetious in saying, I guess it's good for the sort of casual moovie viewer, as an introduction to the medium, that's fine, like YA novels, but if you're a reader of actual literature there's not much point.
I hate his voice.
Very kino. The movie unironically made good points as well despite how unwell Arthur was.
Interesting how they made Thomas Wayne out to be a bit of an butthole.
It's in fitting with the "eat the rich" narrative to have the Waynes be elitist dickheads.
Oh goddd this is going to let incels rise up and kill women BAN THIS MOVIE FROM PLAYING THIS IS A HATE CRIME THIS IS GENOSIDE.
>Makes fricking bank
They did that on purpose right? The whole this is gonna create incel shooters. No one is that moronic right. Some israelite bet another israelite by going full woke and terrorism over this movie it will hype it so much that it will make hundreds of millions in free ninstop advertising. This shit was just so yeah I donteven know what to say this shit was just beyond surreal clown world at its hight.
People in my country were already interested in it, but the drama did cause more normalgays to check it out, because they heard it got banned in the US
it was five years ago and they're making a musical sequel
First of all, it's a good film on its own. It stands on its own merits.
The problem is that it's not a Joker film. You could make Jaquin Phoenix wear generic clown face paint and it wouldn't change anything about the story, the theme, or the message. In fact, it might have been even stronger.
But by far my biggest gripe with the film is that It is NOT funny. How do you make a film about the Joker with NO jokes? And before anyone brings up the whole "the joke is SOCIETY" bit, that's my whole point! There is nothing worse than a joke that you already know the punchline to and the film telegraphs it's punchline from before I even stepped into the theater.
Hopes?
Fears?
Expectations?
hopes? cancelled
fears? not cancelled
expectations? soulless crashgrab
I honestly don't hate gaga and she is weird, and stupid, enough to make Harley work for me, but it really depends on everything else on the movie. I'm pretty sure it will be enjoyable, but not on the same level as the first one.
It's either going to be really good in a different kinda way, or really bad in a funny/pathetic way I suspect.
it's a movie for Cinemaphile to discuss, not really for Cinemaphile. and i don't mean that in a "it's a movie so it's Cinemaphile despite being an adaptation of Cinemaphile property" sorta way, it's just that the movie doesn't really feel like a Cinemaphile movie like some other anons pointed out. it has bruce wayne, it's about joker, but it never really feels like a Cinemaphile movie. it doesn't feel like it was meant for comic book fans
PROTIP for all the pseuds and morons believing the media narrative:
>It's not Taxi Driver/King of Comedy
>It's not some deep 'muh Score-say-zee' shit
>It's not some wannabe highbrow shit at all
>It's also not 'muh incel'/'muh Trump'
>It's not 'muh politics' at all
The reality is that it's a good supervillain origin story set in the 70's/80's and nothing more. Once you realise that and stop thinking it's somehow more clever in a pseud way or dumber in a political way, you'll see it's ironically genius.
What actually/likely happens:
>Thomas Wayne is a corrupt businessman with political ambitions
>Penny Fleck works for him
>he fricks her
>she gets pregnant (Arthur is Batman's illegitimate half-brother)
>to protect his marriage/political ambitions he puts her and Arthur in apartment
>Penny keeps bugging him
>goes around, argues, beats her up (all the Wayne men have genetic psycho/violent tendencies)
>'Happy boy' Arthur tries to protect Mom and gets brain damaged
>Thomas Wayne falsifies records and fabricates a 'boyfriend' paying corrupt cops and media
>has Penny sent to Arkham
>where she is drugged and Dr. Stoner tries to implant a false memories
>Penny is 'lobotomised' but still remembers shit
>writes Wayne sperg letters
>Arthur is a genius, all the Wayne men are genetically, but his is being suppressed by meds
>over the movie comes off his meds
>gradually gets smarter
>reads Mom's letter
>goes to Wayne Manor
>Alfred knows/suspects shit but protecting Thomas/Bruce
>Arthur confronts Thomas Wayne
>Wayne lies saying he's not his father, despite Arthur pointing out they look alike
>steals Arkham records erasing his true origin
>kills own mother in anger
>then later finds photo proving she was telling the truth
>gives no fricks at this point
>regains full genius by the end, figures it all out
>yfw Gotham corruption Batman fights is due to Thomas Wayne
>Alfred actively concealing from Bruce
Watch again if you didn't get it because 'muh Taxi Driver/incel' shit.
So it was character assassination of Thomas Wayne?
Spoken like b***hes who don't know about my kino Flashpoint Thomas Wayne ultra-violent, ultra-pissed-off Batman:
>it's ironically genius.
it's the humor of the unintentional genius?
do you understand any words in the language your translator is set to, or
(cont ... )
So Bruce grows up and becomes Batman. Which is his own rather unhinged psycho/violent response to his father being killed. To dress up like a bat and beat up criminals, (the apple doesn't fall far from the tree).
Arthur's way of dealing with his shit is by being the Joker, and he has a natural hatred for everything Wayne, Wayne Enterprises, and especially Bruce who got all the good shit, while he was shunned by his own father, denied wealth, etc. He might not know Bruce is Batman yet, but he has a reason to hate, steal from, kidnap Bruce as the Joker, attack Wayne Enterprises, etc. So when he finds out that will be a real mindfrick for him, just like it would be for Bruce. He's still not telling Bruce or anyone what he knows though.
In the meantime Alfred has managed to erase details of Thomas Wayne's corruption and clean up Wayne Enterprises, so Bruce never finds out what a piece of shit his father was.
The World's Greatest Detective can't figure out who the Joker is or where he came from, and has no idea why. Arkham records missing. Stoner erased records of Penny's treatments and denies shit, since he was working for Thomas Wayne, (Dr. Stoner is a supervillain psychiatrist with mental influence powers in the comics by the way which is more proof of what he was doing to Penny, that name wasn't selected at random). Batman doesn't know Alfred is lying to him, destroyed records, and wouldn't be beyond erasing shit from the Bat Computer to protect Bruce from knowing the truth. A 'noble lie' in his mind, but also kind of protecting himself for his part in it knowingly or unknowingly, and helping Bruce fight Gotham corruption is him trying to redeem himself and set things right in Gotham after all the damage Thomas Wayne caused. Setting up a future reveal where he's forced to tell Batman his Dad was killed by his own glider, but not in a stupid way like in Spiderman.
I haven't seen it.
It's anti-vigilante government propaganda. The marine who put the homeless nyc subway guy in a sleeper hold that accidentally killed him should have watched it.
I’ve seen bits and pieces of Folie A Deux. It’s pretty cool. Trailer in may.
because it isn't Cinemaphile. The Cinemaphile board is two doors down
There's no way this moron would give Batman any trouble. Why even make it about the comic book character? Would have been a solid standalone flick.
In this universe Batman wouldn’t have Tony Stark tech. He’d still be rich and powerful but he’d come off like another “holier than thou” goon who uses his backstory as an excuse to be a vigilante and pay off the cops to cover up his own crimes.
Would he still be a supergenius expert on every martial art known the man and an expert detective? Because even then I don't see that shit happening, sorry.
I liked the movie, but the comic book connection was always on the back of my head as its only detriment. I think Jaqueen Phoenix is a gifted actor, one of the best of his generation.
These are perfectly normal reactions if you don't understand this:
Like I say, watch it again.
Don't believe the bullshit narratives surrounding this film. It IS a superhero movie, (just a supervillain origin story). That's why Bruce is in it.
Arthur is not a moron, and by the end he is the supercriminal genius Joker we all know and love. The medication makes him write and talk like a moron, but watch him gradually regain his intelligence over the course of the film and it's pretty fricking kino shit.
The stuff about it being some kind of one-off drama with no planned sequels, now that's some Grade-A horseshit right there. I don't know how much has changed due to Gaga shit but you can see what's really going on in this film if you don't get distracted by what you THINK you're watching.
>Picrel, Arthur literally can't smile or feel anything due to medication
>can smile and laugh naturally by the end
>can understand and make real jokes
>is progressively figuring shit out as the movie progresses
>thinks to question and open his Mom's letters
>takes the initiative to go to see Wayne
>disguises himself and gets into theatre to meet Wayne in bathroom
>dance is butterfly crawing out of chrysalis, (a bit literal and on the nose, but whatever, just Phoenix muh actor homosexualry)
>outsmarts and escapes cops
>all clicks at the last minute before he kills himself on the Murray Show and kill Murray instead, (who looks a lot like Thomas Wayne oddly enough)
>btw notice Wayne has a violent hair-trigger temper when he punches him in the bathroom? Gee I wonder how Penny got beat up and Arthur got brain damaged? It's a real mystery folks.
I think Bruce being about 10 years old and Joker being at least 40, wearing a red suit, and not having an incident at a chemical factory means he is a different, not so super villain Joker whose mistakes Bruce Wayne learns from. Thomas Wayne is trying to protect his son from vigilantism. Batman not killing and not even using guns might be the lessons learned from red Joker.
I just watched it the other night. I liked it for the most part, but hated this scene which just felt like a big plug in for, "THIS IS A BATMAN MOVIE!!!!". I was fine with the Bruce and Alfred scene at the gate, but it was a thin line they were walking. Giving Thomas Wayne some spotlight and not focusing so much on everything going back to Bruce/Batman was refreshing while it was happening.
In Taxi Driver, DeNiro goes into a pimp house as a one man army to save a lolli from a life of prostitution. Joker, a guy who sees himself as a vigilante fighting the system, shooting DeNiro, a symbol of vigilantism like Batman, is supposed to get people to question whether those who take the law into their own hands are actually a different type of criminal, not heroes.
I think if Taxi Driver can be considered deep, then Joker has to be considered deeper. DenIro is set free at the end of his movie while Joker is put in a mental institution because society can't function if everybody with a grudge goes on a killing spree.
...Did you just say that a movie is "deeper" than the other because it has a expected outcome?
It's a good movie but it's -explicitly by the director- a story that has nothing to do with the Joker or Batman or anything, dressed up as related to trick normies into watching it.