Why doesnt anyone in dune have guns?
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Why doesnt anyone in dune have guns?
Why doesnt anyone in dune have guns?
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Because of the shields, explained in the book
>casually destroys moronic spaceweeb army
your book is dumb
Can fire penetrate the shield? It blocks air particles so would it cocoon you around the fire too?
No. Even in the movie they show fire from the explosions warping around shields.
Shields can be made so dense that user suffocates inside them. They're not just on or off deal.
I see you've played the Dune pc game.
It isn't even just explained in the book, it's clearly explained in the movie. They even demonstrate how shields block fast moving objects right in front of your eyes. OP is moronic if he couldn't understand.
>They even demonstrate how shields block fast moving objects right in front of your eyes.
That's not the reason why they don't use guns on shields. Its because it creates nuclear explosion
lasguns create the big explosion.
Physical projectiles are stopped if they are moving fast enough.
Are there even physical guns in the Dune universe? I've only read the first book so I dont know
the Baron breaks out artillery to collapse a cave and they do have sub-sonic dart guns that can penetrate shields
knowledge of how to make guns still exists, just nobody does it because it's so easy to counter them
Based on your descriptions it sounds like it would be a lot easier to counter your moronic shields.
It's explained in the book with "the slow blade pierces the shield" maybe it's not explicitly stated in relation to guns but in the 60s people were assumed to be smart enough to work that one out on their own
also explained multiple times in the movie both visually and literally told to the audience
Still doesn't really make sense because people have to turn their shields on for them to work.
A bullet is much faster than a person can react with their shield.
Guns should still be major threats to human life. Especially sniper rifles.
The movie makes it look like they just turn on shields just moments before combat, but atreides and their personnel have them active all the time, same goes for other houses and sardaukar.
Cause if you shoot someone with a laser it makes you explode or some dumb shit.
the photons from the shield and the photons from the laser fuse, resulting in a fusion reaction.
Thats not how photons work
That's how they work in the fantasy world of Dune. You could make a profession out of dismantling sci fi jargon into nonsensical horseshitif you really tried, but most people actually have better sense than that.
They do have laser guns but if you shoot someone's personal shield with a laser then it causes a nuclear explosion or something moronic (seems like an easy way to attack a city if you ask me, just send one dude in with a laser pistol on a suicide mission)
>personal shield
They also attracts worms if you're on Arrakis.
I thought sand worms only existed on Dune and that’s why the spice was so rare.
Arrakis is the real name of Dune, the planet.
>lasgun suicide bombers
I don't know why that never occurred to me
Now the Harkonnens entombing a guy in a wall for 7 weeks just so he could do a one-shot attempt at a mosquito assassination seems really stupid
didn't Paul or one of the fremen use lasgun sniper rifles to detonate the Emperor's ship shields?
The emperor and the other houses get all pissy if you cause nuclear explosions.
All Duke Leto needed was to have a few squirreled away just in case and when the Baron and Emperor attacked him, all those rules could be thrown out the window.
no, because that would have guaranteed his lover and son died with him
not if it guaranteed he won
what do you mean "win"
how would this make him "win" anything other than the ashes of the planet he's on
Win by defeating all baron and emperor forces attacking Arrakis you dolt. Then he controls the spice. And he who controls the spice, controls the universe.
if he uses atomics and gets the planet nuked there is no more spice to control
Leto wasn't willing to make that gamble, the baron wasn't willing to make that gamble, nobody was willing to make that gamble
Except for Paul, he calls everyone's bluff, everyone folds, he wins the empire
Except of course, he loses, because his goal was to avoid a galactic genocide, which he failed at preventing
Canonically you’re both right, I don’t get why there would be so much hand wringing over nuclear weapons in a setting where there are hundreds of inhabited planets and faster than light travel.
>hand wringing over nuclear weapons
It was written in the 60s by a crybaby hippie.
Atomics are more than regular nuclear weapons though, each noble family has enough weapons to glass hundreds if not thousands of planets over
They don't use them because they're essentially forbidden. Everyone has them in their stockpile, but they don't use them because its taboo. You basically get your home planet glassed in response because of how much of a violation its seen as to use one
Because people are a resource and the people in conflict are noble houses. If you essentially devastate a fiefdom, then you're fighting over nothing.
seems me that making the one planet that produces spice an irradiated shithole would make people a bit mad
because there's a chance it looks like a nuclear explosion, which in turn triggers the automated responses from everyone to nuke your planet into oblivion and the Baron wasn't willing to try and call that bluff
Because taking out the leader of a house with just one tiny little drone is efficient. Lasgun suicide bombers wasn't a thing because it caused too much collateral damage, and it wasn't a guarantee
Duncan does exactly that and sets up a dummy. Although by then they’ve already been btfo and have nothing to lose
Because that wasn't a serious attempt at trying to kill someone, it was basically a "frick you" message left behind by the Baron to let the Duke know he wasn't taking this lying down.
>Now the Harkonnens entombing a guy in a wall for 7 weeks just so he could do a one-shot attempt at a mosquito assassination seems really stupid
The baron didn't want to destroy the infrastructure of the city. He just wanted to kill his rivals and reclaim his position
>The baron didn't want to destroy the infrastructure of the city.
The Harkonnens had one of their ships follow Jason Momoa's helicopter around the entire city with an uninterrupted laser beam cutting everything in half
The assassin is perfectly legal according to the Dune Vendetta laws. A bomb is not.
Because that would destroy the whole city including with it all the mining equipment you fricking moron
It works on the MAD ethos. The Landsraad agree to avoid all nuclear explosive weaponry beacuse it would only result in the Emperorer killing off both houses. There isn't any singular house that can withstand an assault from the Sardaukar
did this with the Dune boardgame.
>Ally with Fremen as the Benne's.
>Fremen walks one guy into Hark fortress.
>Use's my factions Voice power "use a shield".
>Hark is forced to comply.
>Fremen uses laser pistol. Wipes entire fortress.
Allah snackbar.
Because the planet is run by communist democrat voters.
Serious question. Do shields stop ballistic weapons? Like normal bullets?
I know it slows down knives and I think it affected that hunterkiller spy thing.
it doesn't slow down knives, it deflects fast moving matter entirely. if you swing fast, the blade bounces off.
yes. that's why they were developed in the first place. it ended conventional ballistic-based combat.
Yes. That’s why they use knives and swords, because you slowly enter through the shield with them
>Watch trailer
>Paul and his merry band of dipshits stabbing, hacking and slashing with fervent enthusiasm
So much for ‘slow blades’.
yes. that's pretty much their only use.
They slow them enough to make them mostly useless. Things like the hunter seekers are still deadly if not dealt with, and as shown during the initial attack bombs will be slowed but since they explode it was just prolonging the inevitable.
Alt shift X has some great dune breakdowns, it's explained a few times there better than I can.
Yes. You pop off any round we have today at a guy with a Dune shield and it stops it. That's why they went back to using swords. They literally had to get medieval just to cause casualties
sounds like someone needed some voiceovers to explain things like in Lynch's Dune 1984
I have been saying this since DUNC came out. Literally nothing is explained, about the worlds or the tech or at least some of the intricacy of the relationships between the different houses. Lynch did some info dumping, but it was all 100% necessary. He accomplishes more in the 2-hour 1984 version that covers the whole book than Villenueve accomplishes in 2.5 hours and covering only half the book.
I think that everything that wasn't explained in the first film will be explained in the second.
Kind of already too late for that. The Baron already took down House Atreides on Arrakis and Paul and Jessica are on the run. None of that was setup properly, so anyone who hasn't read the novel doesn't really give a frick. And even if the 2nd part is 3 hours long, you can have it jam-packed with political exposition to make up for the absolute turd of a script of the 1st movie. The whole pacing and structure is already wienered.
I don't think it is too late. The Emperor was behind things but the Baron was essentially his puppet. Waiting to reveal the Emperor and more of those intricacies makes plenty of narrative sense.
Bait, Dune came out before and Lucas even ripped off parts of it. Early drafts of The Star Wars as it was called mentioned spice traders and had more noble houses.
I disgree. All that stuff needs to be setup before the fall of House Atreides, otherwise why do we care as the audience about anything that is happening?
I am unsure if we watched the same film because that stuff was mentioned. Leaving more of the Emperor stuff for the next part though makes plenty of sense.
>mentioned
That is the whole point I was making. Mentioning something casually is not good enough. Not for me, at least.
>why do we care as the audience about anything that is happening?
They humanise Duncan and his relationship with Paul. The scene with Leto and Paul was a very good one at doing that too. I think there is plenty of stuff designed to make you care about them tbh.
Just SFTU at this point, homosexual. The movie essentially sucks and you know it.
theres not a lot of explaining in the book either. ive only read the first book but a lot of it is just left up to your imagination.
there's a little dictionary in the back of the book, at the least the copy I have, that has explanations for lots of original words/terms used. I don't know if that was in the original version.
The tech was explained in DUNC but it was really subtle. When Paul goes to fight Gurney you see him test the shield with his blade and hitting it and then he does it slowly and gets through. The problem is this, either you explain this shit with heavy exposition or you show it, and the film did show it but maybe you could say it was done rather quickly. I think there was enough expanation and more will come in the second part because they didn't want to overload people.
>He accomplishes more in the 2-hour 1984 version
Heavy exposition, narration and other things though, and he was trying to cover the whole book.
I am no talking about just the tech. Literally nothing with House Harkonnen, the navigators, the Emperor, the Tleilaxu, the Ix, etc.. was explained or set up. All we get are a couple really superficial scenes of people grunting and saying maybe a handful of sentences. It's like it was reduced to the point of being understandable for a 2nd-grader. Real fans of Dune wanted all the political intrigue and spy shit, and all the expanded universe, not some fat-ass floating around in a jacuzzi of black cum.
>House Harkonnen
Their feud and their conflict was mentioned and explained.
>the navigators
Importance of spice was mentioned.
>the Emperor
Him providing troops was mentioned and his hand behind things.
>the Tleilaxu, the Ix,
Unneccesary at this point.
Like, I am not defending the movie absolutely, some of this stuff was rather subtle and not hammered home, but also I wouldn't have liked it to have been so? I think if you go back and rewatch it you will see a lot of this stuff is there or seedlings of it are there for the next movie to capitalise on.
I don't deny all that, but none of it was done enough. Everything is just glossed over. Even 1984 Dune with all its info dumps and expository scenes pales in comparison to the detail and political scenes in the novel. Of course the novel is like twice the length of your average paperback, but Dune fans want more world building, not less. Villenueve had one fricking job and failed. He caved and served up a slick-looking yet superficial sci-fi movie when the novel is a space fantasy novel. He claims to be a huge fan, but he doesn't seem to understand the source material at all.
He understands the source material he didn't want dense exposition as the way of explaining stuff so clearly cut things between parts depending on when it was narratively relevant. I honestly feel like you're nitpicking and should wait for the second part.
Mentioning something lightly is better than heavy exposition. If they heavily explained everything I feel like you'd be complaining about that.
Can't counter me so fall back on that shit.
homosexual who wants a bland Dune movie
A
G
G
O
T who wants a bland Dune movie
>He understands the source material
he doesn't
in fact no one fully does
but Dune has a lot of intertextuality to it that is now completely missing, and stripping out the religious references make it decidedly not-Dune
clearly and deliberately ruining Kynes and changing the manner of his death also makes it not-Dune
The first book really doesn't explain much either. The following sequels go into much more depth about everything you're b***hing about. Dune in many ways is just a prelude to a way bigger story.
>666
>brian posting
It explains a ton, shitlord. Read it again. It's like 180K words.
Sci-Fi mini-series had the best exposition in evey 1h 35m episode
The production value and set design was too moronic for me to like it. And the characters look nothing like they are described in the book. Gay.
His biggest frick up was not having several panoramic shots of Aarakis showing how much fricking sand is everywhere. Makes Lawrence of Arabia so much better
DUNE is literally a Star Wars ripoff but instead of “laser swords” they have “laser shields”, that was literally the guys thought process in his head when making a Star Wars ripoff.
Dune was written in the early 1960s and published in it's entirety in 1965, 12 years before the first Star Wars movie, dipshit.
It's not so much about the tech but about the houses and characters being presented without proper motives for their actions. Ask anyone who hasn't read the novel who Liet-Kynes is and what he (she) wants in the film.
Villeneuve adapted only half the story and couldn't even do it properly, but it was to be expected after that trailer of Chani saying how much the fremen love living in the desert.
It’s like he just ignored Chani’s most notable line from the book:
>”No Frenen loves the desert. We love water and green trees. There is nothing in the desert and no man needs nothing.”
I'm not sure if Zendaya or Sean Young could have pulled this role off
Clearly a role meant for Zendaya
Guns in the desert don't kill Muslims.
Bang! Yemen. BANG
Hasidic israelites subterranially leap from Manhattan..lol suddenly we attack not Saudia Arabia?
Who did 9/11 like, for real?
>The cutting surface of the sword moves at approximately 70 km/h.
>Recurve bow arrows can travel up to 225 feet per second (fps) or 241km
What's the story on arrows?
they bounce off because they're moving too fast. Both the arrows and the sword.
Fighters developed "shield piercing" techniques, which is pretty much controlling how slowly you push your blade through the shield while at the same time trying to prevent them from doing the same.
So if everyone has reverted to melee combat because of the shields why aren't they wearing full plate armor or similar futuristic stuff instead of a space helmet and some maintenance worker overalls made out of cloth?
I think they do everywhere but Arrakis.
because the whole premise wasn't well thought out, but Frank Herbert wanted sword fights in an era of long range weaponry.
The new movie made the concept even worse with the orbital ships launching slowfalling bombs that just floated through the city shields.
Those shields weren't the cities shields. The doctor shut down the city shields like he did in every other version. They were slow bombing the Atreides ships that were sitting on the ground. They had their own shields
The bombs are from the books and actually make sense.
They do but wearing heavy plate on a desert planet that reaches temps of 150C is a very stupid idea
Do shields stop flamethrowers?
yes they explicitly prevent the exchanges of gases which is why the air gets stale inside them
The shields function based on speed of particles. The users have to specifically lower the power of the shield to allow slow air flow or the user suffocates. Fire and gas can therefore breach the shield when slow enough. The Baron almost dies from a gas attack despite having his shield up.
He almost farted himself to death?
The duke is given a false tooth containing poison gas that he breaks during the Barron's gloating.
He kills the evil mentat, but the Baron was far enough away that he could get out of the room and survive.
Wearable air conditioners exist today
Go wear heavy plate and walk around the sahara desert. See how useful it feels for fighting.
I’m sure I could with some sort of carbon fibre armour and a wearable air conditioner and turban. They’re tens of thousands of years in the future wearing shields to protect themselves against weapons nobody has and with no protection against the weapons everyone has.
If you wear shields in the desert, you get killed by the sandworm. If you use an air conditioner in the desert, it causes enough vibrations to get you killed. Most Fremen have knives that will straight go through armor on top of being sneaky future sight ninja warriors. The house people do in fact wear fancy polymer battle armor to help protect but the fremen explicitly dont need it because they cheat
The Fremen use daggers made from the teeth of dead sandworms that pretty easily penetrate most armor.
Can't those not be taken off of Arrakis?
>Can't those not be taken off of Arrakis?
Why would you assume this when the Fremen's biggest plot point is going on a Jihad easily wiping out tens of billions of people? They would just leave their massive fighting advantage behind?
I thought they presented Lady Jessica with one and warned her about not taking it off Dune. Nevermind I'm gay.
>Moreover, the blade was not allowed to be seen by those considered to be outsiders by the tribe; otherwise they would have to die by it, or be "cleansed" in an elaborate ritual.
That was just Fremen spouting off zealous shit from their bullshit religion. The Femen as a whole were gaslighted by the Bene Gesserit into a belief system that would make them the greatest fighting force in the universe so they could one day support the genetically perfected human (Paul) the Bene Gesserit created to become emperor.
I wouldn't look much into anything the Fremen say. They're nothing more than extremely talented fighters with 90IQ.
naah the Bene Besserit did gaslight them but not to that degree
Basically they manipulated everyone, and in every single culture and religion in the galaxy they subtly embedded prophetic figures so that, just in case they ever needed to, they could easily insert one of their own in that specific pre-made position and take control over their society more directly
problem is, that shit backfired on them immensely with Jessica
>problem is, that shit backfired on them immensely with Jessica
It's kinda funny how the "power of love" dismantled a millennia of planning because Jessica when getting pipped by Leto was so in love she forgot to influence the fetus to be a girl. I'm surprised people don't b***h about it on these threads because it's really silly.
it's not really "that" silly
love is a powerful human emotion, and at their core the Bene Gesserit are human and want to be human
they set out on their millenia long breeding program to make humans into better humans (average person in dune is pretty much superhuman) and wanted to create the best possible human
they didn't want to be meat robots
problem is, they still have emotions and one of those is love
it's the inherent flaw in their plan, the idea that they can perfectly control the galaxy, while also maintaining their humanity
Leto realizes this later on and becomes inhuman
She didn't forget anything.
She chose to give Leto a son.
Jessica had no idea how far on in the Kwisatz Haderach breed line. She was not privy to that info, and the Bene Gesserit hoard information.
She decided to give Leto a boy, and then go on to having girls, like she was told to.
Had she known how close to completion the breeding program was, she might have listened to her her superior.
Forget the fremen. The Atredis, Harkonen, and Sardukar are all fighting with swords and power shields over cloth uniforms.
yeah imagine being inside a huge, multi ton metal contraption in the sahara desert
like a car
Vibrations of any kind attractive sand worms to fricking eat you
if only those huge, metal contraptions could move
like a car
Sandworms can move exceptionally fast. Over 80km/hr without much difficulty and won't be slowed down by huge dunes in the way like a car.
Speaking of speed. Makes me wonder how fast leto was actually running at the end of children. Seems pretty insane
Not as fast as Miles Teg in Heretics. I kekd hard at the amount of food he had to eat afterwards to balance the energy expenditure
Are those other books actually worth reading? I just stopped after god emperor. Was gonna move onto some other books
If you don't mind a cliffhanger ending then sure. Frank decided to die before he could finish it out, fricking butthole
how fanfiction/10 are his sons finale books to dune
His son mistook the butlerian jihad as a literal humans versus skynet situation and not a conscious decision by mankind not to be bound and shackled to devices that think for them like smart phones.
just drive without the rhythm bro, like an asian woman
If its on your body wouldn't they just create an equal amount of heat as they do cooling?
Stop thinking, chud.
What bugs me the most is how 5 million Fremen "killed sixty-one billion, sterilized ninety planets, completely demoralized five hundred others. I've wiped out the followers of forty religions". Seems tricky to do logistically speaking.
logistics is why it worked out
space travel in dune is instant
space travel in dune is under the absolute control of 1 organization
what Paul did was strongarm the guild into ONLY allowing the Fremen to use space travel, going planet to planet sending his troops over using magic teleporting martial arts to wipe out all resistance then move on to the next one
>instant
I don't remember that part. I'm trusting you on this.
space travel in dune works through what's basically teleporation
which is why they need the navigator, because teleportation goes wrong in 99999 out of 100000 times so you need someone capable of looking into the future wide enough they can pick out the timelines in which teleportation actually succeeds then follow that one
they used to instead use massive supercomputers to calculate a safe way to do teleportation, but they got rid of all computers
For some reason I though Paul got the Orange bible to read during the trip but I must be remembering the scene in the book wrong.
The spacing guilds navigators see where they want to go and they are there. It doesn't matter how far it is. They just visualize it and boom, they've arrived. They fold space, ye old pencil through the folded piece of paper thing. Its instantaneous
Imagine loading your troops up on a highliner and hitting 3 different planets in a day, and all three are in different places in the universe
should be mentioned that safely doing this is an exceedingly difficult and specialized skillset and entirely under the monopoly of the guild
anyone could build a space ship but without a navigator it's a useless hunk of metal
Tbh I don’t think there’s ever much detail given on the jihad. Unless that’s from one of the spin off books by the son or whatever
Fremen have a higher kill ratio than space marines fighting humans in 40k. They absolutely btfo all other armies. The universe gives people who live in shit places a huge billy badass buff, combine that shit with spice prescience and they are practically unstoppable. Oh yea and they have a monopoly on space travel.
and Paul taught them a martial arts that makes them move so fast other people think they're teleporting
Also most planets don't really have all that great a standing army because nobody really had to fear mass invasion, there was no way that the guild would sanction mass invasions in their mind
and they were right, except for the fact Paul managed to grab the guild's collective balls in a vice by threatening to end spice permanently
shadow of the torturer is as good as dune, read it if you havent
that book was shit and i dont know why people like it. i finished the first book and absolutely had no interest finishing the series. the whole thing was so lame
Filtered. Or should I say WOLFED?
So what book is better? If Dune sucks, what's a good book?
Shadow of The Torturer is good, as well as Fifth Head of Cerberus, Book of the Long Sun and Book of the Short Sun, also by Gene Wolfe. He is the apex SF writer although not everything he wrote was good and / or finished, and his Catholicism is irritating, these ones are god tier. If you want really intelligent, literary SF I also recommend Samuel R. Delany
The instant space travel solves it for me. So thanks to those two who mentioned that. Its been bugging me a long time. I accept the noble savage worship Herbert seems intent on.
I mean it's not really worship of noble savage per se
the Jihad is objectively a bad thing, billions die and all that is accomplished is one autocrat replacing the other
I just mean the fremen being badass epic warriors because for some reason living in the desert and not drinking water makes you that way.
They drink psychedelic worm water and practice space Islam. They're basically Space Chechens.
The Golden Path is intended to apply eugenics to the human race. This requires a jihad to erase the weaker races of men and bring them to heel so that humanity can plan for an outside threat that Leto knows is coming for humanity. It's hilarious that the fremen get retconned to be israelites by Frank's Kid. Chabad must have got to him. It's such hack writing and so cringe.
Its not really a noble savage thing. Herbert hits you with it right away with that scene of Paul being tested by the reverend mother. Its about what a real human being actually is. What being pampered does to a person. How it dulls who you should be. How it can turn you into an animal that is easily slaughtered. The Fremen had hard lives. But those lives made them what Herbert considered truly human. Now put them against everyone else who are living it up easily elsewhere on other planets. They wrecked everyone easily because their lives were about conflict and survival
>The Fremen had hard lives. But those lives made them what Herbert considered truly human. Now put them against everyone else who are living it up easily elsewhere on other planets. They wrecked everyone easily because their lives were about conflict and survival
Yea except I take that representative of the noble savage concept.
okay well you also take wieners up your ass
It's more like Strong men make easy times, weak men make hard times.
The fremen are more focused on surviving which contrasts with the relatively lifestyle of the rest of the universe.
>Strong men make easy times, weak men make hard times.
I hate this nonsense so much. Its applicable to any time and place depending on how you look at things. Its a meaningless statement. Complete garbage. I wish tradgays would stop using it.
95% of the people who like to post that quote arent even at 1/2/3/4 which is the funniest part
what does that even mean?
They're neither living in good or bad times, they're also not strong nor week nor men.
The former is relative, the latter is that they are weak men. How many strong men repeat shite like that?
You hate it because you know its true. You hate it because you look at your life and see how you're a perfect example of what its depicting
it depicts four different things so be specific.
you do not lift, do not talk about strength when you cant even squat 3 plates
Dude, for example Europe and Asia never expected that a bunch of riders from Mongolia to terrorize their kingdoms.
which is amusing because desert ppl irl are kind of a joke at warfare
nah desert people when united in fervor under a capable leader were absolutely devastating at warfare
the Jihad (surprise fricking surprise) is meant to be an analogue to the Muslim conquests of Rome and Persia at the same time
>Muslim conquests of Rome
This never happened.
Well it happened in 1453.
Not Rome.
Well thank God you are not a historian. You're just an ignorant c**t.
If Byzantium was Rome you'd think they would have, you know, Rome.
You mean the city?
Dude Too much water under the bridge. The territory was reconquered and lost again.
They did call it Rome. its only after it fell that people started caing it Byzantium.
and thank G-d that he's not a doctor either. imagine if he didn't prescribe safe and effective medicine or promote a simple 14 day shutdown to stop the spread of a deadly plague
Rome as in the empire
The muslims conquered the vast majority of what remained of the Roman empire at that time even conquering lands that had been lost to roman control (Spain)
And they got ridiculously close to conquering all of it
Had the walls of Constantinople not been literally a 1000 years ahead of their time in defensive fortification, there would have been literally nothing stopping the Muslims from taking Greece, the Balkans and Italy
yeah christcucks really let the glory slip, but it's cool since their kingdom is in the next life after they've been cucked and fricked and such. based
Meanwhile...
I hate it because no one can ever give examples of hard times, good times, strong men, or weak men. If the variables don't mean anything and can apply to anything the formula is useless.
am I supposed to know or care what that is
I assumed most everyone would know. That would be the Christian British Empire.
>Christian British Empire
oh the CBE yeah I remember now, everyone calls it that and you definitely aren't coping at all. What you posted was a graph of white supremacy and nothing else
>white supremacy
Nature is a harsh mistress.
thankfully rabbi yehoshua and his followers have promised us all a release from the cruelties of the material realm
>Christian
>British
Pick one heretic
>Christian British Empire
The British could 'vent given less of a frick about the religion of their colonial subjects the majority of the time. The difference between the Jihads begetting Caliphs and the mercantilist maneuvering that created the British Empire should prove that, from the outset, the two are incomparable in character regarding religious tolerance and fervor, both in foundation and governance.
i wonder what kind of habibi posted this
I'm as romeaboo as they get and even then it's really friggin hard not to see the siege of Constantinople for just how closely won it was
And Rome held out, recovered later and had a long history before the final fall still
>there would have been literally nothing stopping the Muslims from taking Greece, the Balkans and Italy
Sure there would, Persia would have stopped them
That's factually wrong, the lands that Muslims conquered haven't been Roman for hundreds of years. They took the land from Germanic tribes who conquered Rome
Last roman legion literally perished in battle of Yarmouk or durring conquest of Egypt
they took over barely defended, devastated portions of it. they struggled when they encountered the fortified mountainous regions of it where armed forces where settled.
>barely defended,
Seriously?
>when they encountered the fortified mountainous regions of it where armed forces where settled.
This is why they passed through Caucasus and Asia minor towards Constantinople?
The muslims defeated a Roman army despite being outnumbered 2 to 1
in part because Rome was relying on fresh recruits, in part because of exhaustion and in part because frankly, the muslim commanders were far better than the Roman ones
But Rome absolutely did throw nearly everything it had at them
Only after defeat was guaranteed did they withdraw and gave up most of their empire
Losing the Levant, Egypt and Africa was utterly devastating
that was hundreds of years ago and theyve barely advanced since that time lol. they just run around with AKs now and get blown up from the sky
Historically, they are excellent skirmishers
Maybe this my autism from listening to ISAAC AWTHUW too much, but 61 billion doesnt seem like thaaaat much in a space empire.
well Dune thanks to having instant space travel doesn't quite follow the demographics a true galactic empire would have
that said, Isaac Arthur approaches things from a perspective virtually no scifi writer does: a scientific one (irony there)
Mostly that scifi writers don't wanna bother with having a trillion people living in a single solar system, a billion is big enough a number already it's functionally infinite to 99% of the population
For all we know the majority of those were straight up nuked to death. Book one involve Paul demonstrating he cares naught for the taboo, and book 2 gives very little on the specifics of the genocide.
The Fremen would just be the special forces element, there would be millions more troops raised from other Houses or converts to Mooadab
Read the books, there are ranged weaponry in the Dune universe: projectile weapons and lasguns. However, those ranged weaponry are nullified by those shields(laser beams coming into contqct with shield create a giant explosion that can kill the person wearing the shield and the attacker with the lasgun) which is why close range weapons have made a return to the battlefield.
No reason given in the novels why a plain old gun that shoots metal bullets isn't a threat.
It's made clear that shields are not on most of the time by the wearer, and the restrictions on computers and A.I. would prevent them from having much of any automatic activation system.
The way society is described in Dune you should be able to pull out a gun and shoot someone from behind without no issues.
They were outlawed by the Emperor after The Great Hemoglobin just like robots.
Why dont they just run people over? Whats a shield going to do against a tank smushing you? Worms frick up shields for the same reason
its one of those things that you shouldnt try to dissect too much because it has so many holes in it. like they could just squirt poisoned water at each other with a water gun or something stupid like this. afaik the shields dont block rain
penetrating the shield would set off a nuclear explosion. dumb, but in the books
I see you've played the Dune PC game.
Gun control policy.
The removal of 2nd amendment for exemple,Dune is real life politics.
The fremen spice orgies include the entire tribe even the children.
Dune sucks and is a mishmash of half baked ideas. Warhammer 40k stole them and turned them into pure kino.
There, I said it.
and here we go with the ESLs
Dick Chani
people say this inspired star wars but no one ever says george lucas totally ripped off the whole jessica/baron thing and repurposed it for luke and vader
Lucas is a hack. He stole a plenty. Cloud City was literally in an old Flash Gordon serial. And other stuff was from Princess of Mars. The X-Wing fight was Dam Busters. The droids and other characters Hidden Fortress.
Its like poetry
the sandpeople are kind of like a moronic joke version of the fremen, which is pretty funny actually.
How does The Voice work? Is it mind control or what?
I always understood it as an expression of Will.
Can you elaborate? It's an interesting concept.
>Can you elaborate? I
Not eloquently but Paul's to Superman right? That's the whole idea. He imparts his will on the universe. The Voice is just a lesser version of that that Paul completes; mostly. I'm not much for Nietzsche but Dune seems so tied up in it its hard to avoid. Mix that in with all practitioners of the Voice being members of an elite initiatic cult and you can play with Evola and stuff like that too.
it's weaponized charisma by people who can perfectly read your emotions
So it's sublte manipulation perfected? So like perfect body language and inflection tailored to manipulate?
its basically like weaponized ASMR
>tfw reverend mother makes you cum by commanding it
fuuuuuuck the bene gesserit secretly running things makes a lot of sense
fun fact: in the later books there's an offshoot of them that controls society through perfected sex
this is now officially my fetish
No you don't.
It turns you into the ultimate simp.
You'd cut your own dick and balls off afterwards if she told you to.
Bad news about that too.
Just because you don't have a dick or balls does not mean they can't turn you into their slave.
yes but it goes a bit further than that, it's not generalized as charisma is but rather specialized for you in particular
on top of various physiological factors like finding the perfect tone of voice that makes your brain in particular the most open for manipulation possible
A key aspect of the Bene Gesserit is perfect control over their biology, they can control each individual muscle or tendon to the exact degree they want and that's a basic most requirement, every single thing a Bene Besserit does is intentional
Now apply that to them putting all their training, knowledge to specifically create the exact words in the exact tone at the exact right time to get you to do what they want
As a normal person there's no defense against that
Mind control. In Messiah Paul assigns a deaf guard to the reverend mother so she can't manipulate him.
She cant use manipulative sign language?
No, it works by changing the tone of their voice, it doesn't work visually.
Nobody tell him about the honored matres.
in theory the voice if adapted could work through any medium that allows for the same information density as spoken language
but sign language isn't complex enough for that
It is the equivalent of an autist walking into a shop and demanding they give him the money while T-posing and pissing themselves and the poor little cashier acquiescing out of sheer embarassment
It's like instant hypnosis.
They can get subliminal messages straight into your lizard brain before your conscious mind can respond.
Not really. They're a mix of people (including actual arabs) that have convergently evolved into arabs again.
>the most valuable strategic resource in the entire universe is produced on a single planet
>it's not under the direct personal control of the emperor
I know it's a metaphor for le oil but he's already owned it for hundreds of years. It should be a second capital, a glowing city beneath an impenetrable superfortress, not some bumfrick badland whose total population isn't even known. The only reason the entirety of the middle east isn't called New Texas is because America has to pretend to support free governments, the Emperor has no such limitations.
if the empire had turned it into a shining glowing city all spice would be gone because the sandworms need the desert
and while the relationship wasn't fully understood, it WAS understood that the natural conditions of Arrakis were responsible for the production of spice
And nobody wanted to frick with that out of fear of what might happen next
>hundreds of years to study a planet
>still haven't figured out how to make sand pandas frick
Lmao, guess the mentats they sent over were too busy huffing on spice to do actual research. Still doesn't excuse why the planet wasn't under the emperor's personal control.
it's more like, it's a golden goose, but it only lays it's eggs on a bed of fox fur at 12:30 pm
are you going to slaughter that goose? course you're not you're not an idiot
are you going to replace it's fox fur bed with wool? Probably aren't going to do that either
Trying to make it lay an egg at 11:30 instead of 12:30 because it's more convenient? It's laying fooking golden eggs course you're not going to risk that, what if it gets pissed off and stops laying golden eggs
That is because sandworms don't frick, and reproduce by getting wet and disintegrating into millions of tiny little flatfish that burrow around in the sand.
Which means the worm dies, and you have to wait a thousand years or so before the little ones are large enough to produce spice.
Which, by the way, is sandworm shit.
They were actually conducting experiments on it, since the sandtrout aren't actually indigenous to Arrakis, they came there from somewhere else originally. Eventually they do actually manage to produce some artificial spice in vats and tanks, though it is described as second-rate and not as quality as the Arrakis good shit.
He is majority share holder in CHOAM that is the company that harvests and spice. Other major houses are minority share holders. The reason he doesn't control the planet is because all the other powers that be wouldn't let him. Everything in Dune is about relationships between different groups forces and agendas and how they kind of balance out. He uses proxies to rule Arrakis because it also means that he can blame someone else for problems, much like how a director might use a company scapegoat. The Fremen also bribe the Spacing Guild and others to prevent things like satellite coverage over the planet.
Emperor - ruler of universe
Noble houses - main powerful families
Landsraad - the council of these houses
Spacing Guild - monopoly on space travel, trade
Bene Gesserit - witches manipulating things for their own agenda
If the Emperor tried to monopolise power then the Landsraad and others might have something to say about it.
Then why is he even called emperor?
you're aware that the concept of royal absolutism is both very new and never applied to emperors right?
the HRE had an emperor and he got elected to that position
checks, balances and factionalism are the norm in empires, not the exception
What I can't wrap my head around is how this entire empire formed in the first place without the monarch being in control of Arrakis. You can't be king without controlling the largest pile of money, in this case it's spice and the planet is the only source of it. It makes no sense that it isn't already the heart of the empire.
empire did form out of the control over spice
at first they had alternative means of interstellar travel that were significantly worse but still functional, just with massive error rates
they used those to find Arrakis, and what would become the empire then grew exponentially
Checks and balances are normal in a feudal system. A king might have subjects pay fealty to him and be his vassals but if he decided to tax them all harshly then his barons could rebel and threaten him.
The Emperor in Dune has a majority shareholding in the company that controls the spice, has what people to believe is one of the most powerful armies and plenty of allies. But even then his power isn't absolute and he can't break all conventions without angering others.
>>it's not under the direct personal control of the emperor
>whoops endless coaltions against Emperor's house under the lead of the Guild
>The only reason the entirety of the middle east isn't called New Texas is because America has to pretend to support free governments
Nope
Pssh fighting with one knife, I'll take a light weight chainsaw sword and a riot shield
I think they also messed up by not stressing how important water is to the fremen. They get really fricking pissy with the trees around the space port and the hidden garden is much cooler. Missing small shit like that kills world building
the only problems were the sardaukar not being disguised and the DEIcasting of liet kynes
Herbert thought it’d be poignant to use nuke shields as a way to comment on nuclear deterrence affecting the environment. Once you read his beliefs, you start to realize he was just as moronic as thunberg is in using forced metaphors to try and equate ecological disaster to technological progress.
the way he dick sucks for desert people kind of says it all to me. if he wanted to write a story about le stronkest hardcore men he probably should have picked steppe nomads
No, he watched Lawrence of Arabia on drugs
Paul being a mentat never matters
mentat skills are a soft passive to him
If they just shot people who were wearing shields from far away wouldn't that negate the reason why they need to do the slow cutting melee shit? Just make them all explode themselves
1 the lasgun also explodes
2 the explosion can be almost identical to a nuclear weapon and now MAD's triggered and your planet is glass
MAD wasn't an issue for shields being hit by lasguns.
Duncan deliberately leaves behind an active shield on maximum for the Harkonnens to shoot when they are running away.
nah it was an issue, the shields being left behind is foreshadowing on what happens at the end of the book: Paul calling everyone's bluff that nobody in the galaxy wanted to nuke Arrakis
It's never mentioned as being on the same level as atomics.
There were Maula pistols that were spring loaded instead of gunpowder.
i already explained how to get around these stupid shield rules. get a water gun and fill it up with poison water then squirt it on them. problem solved.
Poison is an extremely common method of killing people in Dune. They literally try what you're suggesting with Paul and Duncan but more high-tech. The issue is that in direct combat it isn't reliable because one could theoretically dodge or simply turn up the Holtzman shield to max while holding their breath so nothing penetrates (the Baron likely survived the poison gas by doing this).
they dont use a water gun for that, theyre just stupid
Any water fast enough to not be easily dodged would be blocked by the shield. Any water slow enough to pass the shield is easily dodged.
If the fremen are so good at being secretive then why don't they use computers?
computers arent allowed in the dune universe because something something reason
it's because they overused computers before to the point computers had all but replaced humans in most functions and humanity got close to locking itself in a golden cage and throwing away the key
so as a radical pendulum swing humans had a massive cultural civil war and computers were banished
this banishment then later being upheld by the major powers in the galaxy because a lack of computers made the galaxy easier to control
even this didn't fully get rid of it, Ix always kept computers and they created enough useful things the major powers sort of overlooked them
You know how modern people are addicted to smart phones and its generally degenerating them and ruining society? Well in Dune there was a reactionary backlash against this shit.
>computers arent allowed in the dune universe because something something reason
The reason was the "thinking" computers in the Dune universe over-ran their intended purpose as tools, and became closer to a tool that was turned against the user.
> Invent computer to help humans manage their reproductive capacity
> Oops the computer has actually been directing human reproduction according to its own whims instead of the human users
> Butlerian Jihad
> Computers banned forever 🙁
Because the galactic empire is comprised of trillions of people on thousands of worlds. You wouldn't be able to manufacture enough bullets to sustain wars. Guns are no longer practical. You don't have to reload knives.
>later books introduce space israelites
>not some far removed descendants of the talmudic tribe but straight up israelites in space
Was that before or after Frank Herbert died?
before
Every other religion get amalgamated into random fusions like zensunni. israelites stay israelites.
so are they some horribly inbred scat fetishists or something then?
If they changed as little as implied, then yes.
The Fremen are arabs as well so, yeah.
multiple fremen are described as blonde and their religion is a combination of islam and buddhism, so they are actually aryan desert warriors
Were the Chosen of G-d. Our covenant today is the oldest functioning faith on earth and dates back thousands of years in an unbroken line.
It’s not surprising that Frank Herbert would acknowledge us surviving into the future. G-d won’t forget us just because time marches on and civilization changes.
>sigh... somehow Duncan Idaho returned
>Brian Herbert's foreword of Dune Messiah spoils Duncan Idaho's return AND that there're computers somewhere
>in the FOREWORD of the his DAD'S BOOK he's spoiling THAT SAME BOOK *AND* LATER BOOKS
Is that guy fricking moronic?
He's not moronic, he just wants everyone to think of him first when they think of Dune.
Well he sort of won that, cause when I think of Dune I think of "That fricking idiot Brian Herbert doesn't deserve Dune".
>Is that guy fricking moronic?
Yes
i dont read forwards to books ever. All they do is spoil and they never add anything of substance
I'm reading "The Jungle" right now and the edition I have has some info about the author written by some woman a hundred years later, she did a good job of connecting his book to the 2000s. I guess that counts as a foreword and I think it was great.
It sucks that you don't know until you KNOW and then there's no unknowing that. Books, what a scam, I should just start drinking again like DFW said I would.
>The Hardy Boys
I was more of a Magic Tree House kind of kid
I like the implication in the film that he used the voice to get his mom to suck him off while he was eating breakfast.
God damn I love milfs.
That didn't happen, and you are weird.
I read the books. It happened
Imagine using the voice to dig out your mother's butthole with your love bone every night and morning. Man I wish I lived on dune.
Why aren't there any dicky Bene Gesserit?
There literally is
>Arrakis is apparently the only planet in the universe with a survivalist people
is apparently the only planet in the universe with a survivalist people
That's quite opposite.
Other planets do. Sardaukar used to be, but got soft. After Paul and Leto, the Fremen as well go soft. It ebbs and flows.
The point about Arrakis is that its the harshest planet soFremen fighters get +3 to all their stats while spice being in everything gives them a small level of prescience that can be used at the DMs discretion.
Most laughable costumes ever.
Frank jumped the shark with the return from the shattering
Reminder that the worms are a sentient alien species and not native to arrakis
I find that crazy mining laser in dune messiah to be interesting
What’s the purpose of such a tool? Is it like planet crunching in dead space
would a white fremans womans shield stop a BBC?
I think LOGH solution is more realistic (mostly because of the suicide attack angle of Dune).
When ground combat teams want to avoid laser attacks they bring generators that spread a tiny particle that is high combustible immediately blowing away the long rage shooters.
Shit show
because it was written by a manchild
whatever a magic sword does that's so special it can penetrate the shield could obviously be easily be replicated a more advanced weapon than a human-wielded sword
>written by a manchild
A hippy on LSD, actually.
And intended to be read by other hippies.
They have little poison dart launchers that work to some extent through shields, I think Vlad explicitly stays strapped with one at all times. The Fremen also carry something called a Maula pistol. The only combat we the reader ever see in the book are 1 practice sparring sessions, 2 knife duels, and 1 gladiator arena duel, Frank never really explained how mass combat was supposed to work except saying shit like "the fighting continued" or "there was a mass struggle" or whatever so it's really up to interpretation. In the fourth book shields are banned across the universe so everybody just lasguns each other.
So if you need melange for space travel, how did humans reach Arrakis in the first place?
With computers before the sanction against them.
However, there is a plot hole here in regards to the time line.
And how does space travel work? I mean literally. Do the ships have hyper drives, worm holes, not explained?
They fold space. They need spiced up mutated Guild Navigators to be able to use it safely and reliably get to the destination.
They used AI before it was permabanned in the Butlerian Jihad
Dune has two major plot holes.
1. the lasgun interaction
2. when spice was discovered and put into wide usage
You have to ignore these two things when reading the first book. If Frank was alive longer he might have revised the original book to alter these ideas to make more sense.
lasgun interaction is not a plot hole
>can't use guns because shields block fast moving projectiles
>can use bladed weapons because they move slow enough to go through the shield
it's wonky, but okay
>nobody walks around in plate armor to stop the blade should it get through the shield
explain this shit
They are clearly wearing basic kevlar/stab proof clothes tho
Just imagine that everyone wears carbon fibre stab proof vests but when they have knife fights, they will always attack exposed areas and weak points. Boom, plot hole solved.
it's not only for technological reasons. It's also big part of the human culture in the dune era times.
because the democrats won