Hard to take these threads even half seriously when you clowns never post any kind of source. Or post numbers that don't make any sense because they're so clearly intentionally vague. If I used to sell one comic book last year and sold three this year, I'd have tripled my sales, but still only sold three comics. If I sold a million, and only sold a thousand more, that's a tiny fraction of an increase. I have no fricking clue what the time frame here is or what kind of actual increases have occurred.
https://www.comicsbeat.com/report-graphic-novel-sales-were-up-65-in-2021/
OP's pic shows the percentage change between 2020 to 2021 according to Bookscan. While comic shops are not fully represented in Bookscan (because many do not have point of sale hardware and floppy comics do not use ISBN numbers), it is an apples-to-apples comparison in that it's superhero graphic novels compared to superhero graphic novels, and manga compared to manga.
Context: the fact that superhero graphic novels remained relatively flat between 2020 and 2021 is cause for concern, because 2020 was the pandemic shutdown era. In addition, other non-superhero graphic novels increased at a rate 10 times that of superhero graphic novels.
Don't get me wrong, I was just providing the context at the time for data from 2 years ago. At this point, anyone who doesn't think the direct market is in trouble and manga is winning are in deep denial. Can't fix that even with data and evidence.
love how this doesn't even bring up all the shitty woke beanmouth shows that get produced with LGBT themes. btw the western animation industry is down the shitter.
>"Buzzwords, buzzwords, buzzwords!" >"if only cartoons weren't as political as my animes" >"But SU, Big mouth, familyguy and Rick & Mority" >Bean mouth over generalization
Next time, maybe don't be full of shit?
>ending statements in question marks
Uhmm sweetie? twitter is like?? that way??? i just like, can you like stop?? also no more unsolicited opnions on Israel??
i like how the anti-bait thread image has bait in it, the "sunrise stance" is basicaly a meme, thats like a jap saying westerners cant do sound design because of the "wilhelm scream".
Comics >Try to start from the issue “one” >Find out the character actually has been on tons of adventures, has died a billion times, is a clone but also isn’t, and ETC >Most of the issues are filler that have little-to-nothing to do with the overall story >Artist and writer change, ruining everything
Manga >Start from volume one >It’s the actual beginning of the story >Everything contributes to the overall plot or character development >Only one team or guy working on it through the story
>Immediately thinks of Spawn
Bruh, there's more to Image than just Spawn
There's more to Image than just capeshit
There's more to creator owned comics than just Image
thinks of Spawn
Why wouldn’t I? He fits your criteria and is the most popular hero outside of Marvel and DC. >Bruh, there's more to Image than just Spawn
You’re right, let’s look at Haunt. It’s the same. In fact, the artist and writer changing KILLED the comic. Let’s move onto Witchblade. It sucks, the games did it better. >There's more to creator owned comics than just Image
Like what? The first thing I think of when I see “creator owned comics that are similar to manga” are Bone, Amulet, and other graphic novels.
>You’re right, let’s look at Haunt. It’s the same. In fact, the artist and writer changing KILLED the comic. Let’s move onto Witchblade. It sucks, the games did it better.
Like I said, there's more to Image than just capeshit
1 year ago
Anonymous
What is that?
1 year ago
Anonymous
East of West, it's a science fiction comic with the same writer and artist across every issue
1 year ago
Anonymous
>45 issues across 6 years
lazy shits, ennis & robertson crapped out double that in 5 years
>Like what?
Blacksad, Beautiful Darkness, Concrete, The Many Deaths of Laila Starr, Gung-Ho, Animal Castle, The Goon, Usagi Yojimbo, Beasts of Burden, etc
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Split into a million little pieces and or never-ending
Yet another reason to despise comics.
1 year ago
Anonymous
into a million little pieces and or never-ending >Beautiful Darkness
Bruh, it's a standalone graphic novel
Mangaka handle all the writing themselves and only answer to their editors. And even then the big names like Togashi can and do tell the editor and even the publisher to frick off. Apprentices are hired by the mangaka to do tones, text and backgrounds, but it's not a requirement. Lots of mangaka prefer to work without them.
>And even then the big names like Togashi can and do tell the editor and even the publisher to frick off.
Yeah Togashi does that *now* because he's in a position to *now*. Togashi was also subject to literally one of the most notorious examples of industry abuse there was when his editor *locked* him in a hotel room and forced him to work on chapters to be allowed to leave.
That's like the worst example of editorial abuse in the industry, but the fact is most mangaka actually do have to eat shit from their editors and especially their publishers. Bigger names might get leeway unless they signed a shit contract or are working on a series they don't own and smaller names working on a series doing well with a contract that would let them jump magazines can always threaten to do that to keep their editor and publisher in line, but for the most part mangaka are expected to follow any orders they get.
As another example involving Togashi, he wasn't allowed to end YYH when he wanted to because it was doing too well so he deliberately tanked writing quality for the series to drive the numbers down so the publisher would let him kill it.
Togashi was notoriously the subject of A LOT of bullshit early on in his career which is why nobody begrudges him the endless fricking hiatuses nowadays.
To be fair you must have seen togashi's living conditions. The guy's a slob and vidya addict, he's a slacker even before his back gave out. I don't blame someone for locking him in mangaka timeout until he finishes all his homework. It's not like they starved and beat him and frankly we could use that kind of harsh consequence for the hacks here in the west who churn out slop for a generous paycheck. At least based togashit does good work.
One dude is responsible for all the important shit, inkers and assistants come and go but deciding what happens and how it gets framed in the page are where 99% of a comic's intent gets decided
Yep. The weird thing is though it really shouldn't be as hard to get into Big Two comics as it currently is. DC purposely makes it as difficult as possible by renumbering their trade paperbacks at volume 1 every fricking year. They could put like a simple timeline or something at the start of their books but I guess that's too much for those idiots.
>search for Spider-Man vol.1 as I prefer hardcover books >redirects me to Vol.1 Brand New Day by Slott, instead of the Back to basics which is the most recent one
And that’s how many don’t bother actually reading the source material
>Be young man >Turn on Naruto, One Piece, or DBZ >Watch engaging relatable stories with fun characters, good world building, sexy women, and themes of never giving up
>Be young man >Turn on Marvel >Get lectured but ugly women about how men bad and you’re not doing enough for LGBT and BLM
Comics >Try to start from the issue “one” >Find out the character actually has been on tons of adventures, has died a billion times, is a clone but also isn’t, and ETC >Most of the issues are filler that have little-to-nothing to do with the overall story >Artist and writer change, ruining everything
Manga >Start from volume one >It’s the actual beginning of the story >Everything contributes to the overall plot or character development >Only one team or guy working on it through the story
>>Cinemaphile troony seethes because uncomfortable truths are mentioned
You morons never bother to even get into comics, at best you attempted to get into basic b***h capeshit when other publishers exist but don't fix your narrative
You don't want a solution, you don't want a debate
Frick off
love how this doesn't even bring up all the shitty woke beanmouth shows that get produced with LGBT themes. btw the western animation industry is down the shitter.
This is pretty much where I’m at. I’ve started consuming more Japanese media since 2022 because there has been such an unbearable uptick in propaganda in Western entertainment recently. Literally everything from journalism, to media, to video games has some social/political message it wants to push (and let’s be honest, it’s always left leaning ones). It’s tiring, we need diversity, everything shouldn’t sound like a CNN segment 24/7. I can’t believe Hollywood is just glossing over the success of Top Gun Maverick so it can push more garbage. There’s nothing wrong with pure escapism.
marvel and dc had no presence on me during my childhood years
maybe some batmam cartoons but i was huge on naruto and dbz with their animes and games
now that my generation is of age we buy manga and weeb merch like crazy
t. 25
>Looks this up >Writer is a prolific writer of gay manga since the 80s
And like I said, this is organic. It's not like this is someone doing this to virtue signal. He's been covering taboo topics like this for the Jap market as his career.
For instance, take Boys Don't Cry. The director is a self-proclaimed queerdyke. It's a film about the true story of a transman in the 90's that got murdered. No shit the director is going to address something that's crucial to LGBTQIA+ circles because the 90's was not a friendly era for the non-hetero non-cis people. This is organic.
What's not organic is suddenly retconning Iceman into being gay all this time or other asspulls. Marvel's already had openly gay mutants like Northstar who actually has a personality besides being homo.
There was already a manga about trannies back in 2002. There is manga about everything since it's such a huge and diverse medium. Graphic novels are full of this stuff too but nobody cares because they're niche. It's only a problem if you shoehorn it where it doesn't belong.
Yeah but its not standard in manga, you have to seek it out.
Anything is in manga if you look hard enough. The japs are just as depraved as anyone else but their society still (correctly) frowns on flaunting it publicly (mostly).
Comics rarely get any good animated adaptations or cross-media promotion.
Even the biggest movie franchise of all time does basically zero promotion for any of the comics it draws from.
Because manga is undermonetized. Webtoons get that mobile ad revenue.
Shit like that is why I've said for fricking years comics need to go back to including ads and even need to start including product placements in the pages themselves. What if the Batmobile was canonically a modified Honda? How much would that be worth?
>Why doesn’t manga make as much money as Korean Webcomics?
1. Korean webcomics don't make as much as manga because they're free to read, and most of the ad revenue goes to Webtoons (the company).
2. While manga falling into the trap of being mostly MMO/Isekaishit, Korean webcomics are a lot more genre diverse than manga ever was.
3. The fact that both Korean webcomics and Japanese manga is wiping their ass with American comics is more of an American problem than anything else.
They're worse slave drivers than the japs are. I've slot count of how many webtoons I've read end up changing artist when season 2 arrives. The artist for Solo Leveling died like 6 months after the webtoon ended, probably working while ill.
trannies and weebs buy manga
old white men buy comics
comics try hard to cater to trannies, which pisses off old white men
old white men stop buying comics
trannies continue to buy manga and not comics
because Americans can't write fiction, their only claim to fame is that they had banks able to loan lodes of money while other more artistic countries where fighting two world wars on top of themselves
The Manga from magazines have to compete with each other for relevance. So it breeds more creativity and diversity in stories. It would be cool for there to be a Shonen jump like magazine in American grocery stores and other places like that.
>study used a fricking tiny sample size >what it actually found is that the bullies just had better self-esteem >using a screenshot from the Daily Fail
I remember when trolls used to make an effort
It almost 100% comes down to art style specifically the way faces are drawn. No bug eyes no buy. Most manga, disney/pixar movies, and comics tell equally uninteresting stories but 2 out of 3 of these things sell. The manga industry would die overnight if they switched to basic anatomy 101 and pseudorealism
If that's the case, why don't comics like Monkey Meat and Kaya, ones with more unique artstyles fail to sell as well as basic anatomy photo realism comics?
There's plenty of manga with semi-realistic artstyles that sell well. Berserk, Jojo, Slam Dunk, Chainsaw Man, etc. The problem is that the standard capeshit arstyle has no personality and you might as well be watching live action instead, which is what happens; capeshit only finds success in Hollywood blockbusters and TV series.
All of those semi-realistic manga still have bug-eyed characters. It's not nearly the same.
"House style" art, which is a catch-all term for corporate-approved superhero art you mainly see at the big 2 got even worse with the dull realism once they started rolling out movies.
The alternatives at the big 2 are hiring artists that can't even crank out House style shit, aiming for some rushed tumblr garbage, tracers, artists emulating something like Kirby, but poorly, and artists with a manga influence. That last one is the only one worth checking out, honestly.
manga gives people beep stories and great characters while comics are just propaganda.
Made in Abyss sucks ass like that toilet. Shit characters, shit lore, shit story.
If you just read it to jerk off, you're doing it right.
There's plenty of manga with semi-realistic artstyles that sell well. Berserk, Jojo, Slam Dunk, Chainsaw Man, etc. The problem is that the standard capeshit arstyle has no personality and you might as well be watching live action instead, which is what happens; capeshit only finds success in Hollywood blockbusters and TV series.
lmao the most commonly read manga isn't drawn in such styles anymore my Black person.
Comics are dying and the industry is only worthwhile to normies when it produced a movie.
Enjoy your corpse party, homosexual
Well he's recommending >that VN
so he wants more people to read a horror nukige where elementary schoolers rape adults, lesbian sex is everywhere, and more.
Because manga knows how to get 'em young.
Pretty much everyone under the age of 50 grew up regularly watching anime, many of which basically exist to advertise manga.
Even as someone who was one of those weirdo kids who read the newspaper comics every day and was big into kid's comics/print media like Captain Underpants and Diary of a Wimpy Kid, I eventually gave all those up in favor of watching Naruto and Soul Eater and Gintama and the like.
Because 90% of comics are either: >photorealistic traces with detailed teeth and the expressiveness of a monolith, covered in text walls so thick the author might've as well typed a novel or >adaptations of crudely drawn newspaper strips with dull punchlines and awfully repetitive multi-strip arcs
I think anon's referring to the fact that there are literally dozens upon dozens of sites you can go to for pirating manga, while I can only think of maybe 3 for comics.
I mean, this one is literally true, it's a boy who ends up trapped in his sister's body due to "science" shenanigans.
She also later gets raped, as is obligatory for a dramatic seinen manga.
There's good stuff out there, comics industry just has a broken distribution model and as a result the good stuff that's out there stays pretty obscure unless you're actively seeking it out. I feel like comic pubs should be getting outside the direct market/comic shop system more and trying to put comics in more accessible places again but nobody wants to jump outside the box cuz staying with things the way they currently are is what barely keeps the lights on.
Marketing things better is a big thing too, there is zero marketing for cool weird indie books that might find a larger audience but publishers don't promote them say, the way they do a licensed title. I can't tell you how many people I see saying "Oni Press? Do they publish anything other than Rick & Morty comics?" Yea they do, they've got some really good indie books right now that get no real marketing whatsoever and any buzz that's out there is just people discovering them and saying "hey this is good, why don't more people know about this?" Idk
there aren't any good adaptions of comic books or superhero comic books, when the Invincible show aired the Invincible comics sold 100,000 more copies, imo Marvel and DC should make a high budget cartoon based off a comic run, you have decades of content to go off of and so many great stories to tell, maybe even make a animated universe, it's literally what the japanese do, pick up a random comic story and make it into a high budget action cartoon with cool fights and a decent soundtrack, if you were to make a good adaption people would want to spoil themselves and see what's going to happen next before the new season comes out so they buy the comic book or manga and read it
>pick up a random comic story and make it into a high budget action cartoon with cool fights and a decent soundtrack
Honestly, people in Cinemaphile industries really underestimate how much legwork a good soundtrack can do.
When's the last time you heard about people going out in droves to buy a cartoon soundtrack?
Yeah I mean folks could discern Akatsuki or Naruto fight theme or even the funny music. For western cartoon the best soundtrack identifiable is only the main theme
It's not like the west don't know how to add good or iconic music to its products either Highlander had that Queen theme and Daredevil had a Evanescense theme of all things in its movie.
>Normie walks into bookstore >Shelves full of complete Manga sets >Small shelf >No new comic issues, just trade paperbacks >Barely any of the recognisable heroes (Tony Stark, Steve Rogers) >Decades of research needed to get into a story
>Manga: You get like 10-ish chapters of a big story in a sturdy paperback book with well over 100 pages for about $9-13. Can be very easily found in Walmart, Target, Barnes & Noble, and dedicated shops. Everything is very clearly labeled as to what is the main series, what's the spinoff, etc. >Comics: For $5 you get a flimsy paper comic of about 25 pages with ads every other page, you have to keep up with monthly issues, you have to figure out which damn cover you want, you have to find a place near you that even sells them, and you'd better hope and pray the comic you pick even finishes its run.
Wow gee, I wonder why, in a time of economic hardship, one seems like a smarter investment than the other.
Comics are ugly and have dogshit stories. Simple as. And let's not get started on cartoons with shows what Japan considers for a 'younger' audience completely mogs all of the ""adult"" shows ( that probably costs 5x the amount to make ) the west can put out. Imagine how hard I laughed when I saw the new series "Velma" that dropped. Also the same with High Guardian Spice. Worse part is I don't think this will change for a long time as nepotism and huge companies will prevent anything decent coming out.
Yes I know this is a shitty West vs East bait thread. No, I won't stop mocking the stuff they put out.
Manga is better. All the stories have a clear beginning and ending (or are still ongoing) and are usually written and drawn by one or two people, they're one continous story set in the same world with the same characters in the same art style. Occasionally there are sequel series or spin-offs, but they're always clearly marked and the reading order is easy to fnd.
With western comics you have to look for specific reboots or individual stories because most characters have decades of backstory with wildly varying quality and art styles, and even the good events and runs have crossovers to deal with. Can't count how many times I've given up on a story after it gets interrupted with "see Different Series No. 122-125 to see what happens next!".
I think more important than the easy of entry thing is that manga just have a wider spectrum of content.
If i want to read superhero stories, western comics has that in spades. If I was to read *literally anything else*, I either need to settle for a version of that which is jammed into an ongoing superhero story, or I need to dive into the dumpster bin where they hide the indie comics. They technically exist, but there are not a lot of them and frankly they don't get much support.
Meanwhile, I go over to manga and yeah there are plenty of fighting stories. I can also read weird science fiction, or fantasy adventure, or romance, or drama, or mystery, or whatever the frick Rosengartan Saga is. Its hard to name a genre that you want to read that manga doesn't provide, while its hard to find a genre beyond capes that western comics does.
>or whatever the frick Rosengartan Saga
Rosen Garten Saga, much like something like Pumpkin Night or Succubus & Hitman, is a shitpost manga.
Except unlike many shitpost manga, it is also legitimately good, largely because it isn't just constant edge and gore, and has a lot of genuinely likeable characters.
That and it has surprisingly good art considering the fricking ridiculous premise and setting.
>With western comics you have to look for specific reboots or individual stories because most characters have decades of backstory with wildly varying quality and art styles, and even the good events and runs have crossovers to deal with. Can't count how many times I've given up on a story after it gets interrupted with "see Different Series No. 122-125 to see what happens next!".
Just read creator owned
You tards never listen
Everyone else is wrong. The sale numbers include mags like Shonen Jump which has a collections of the latest singular chapters for different series (Shonen Jump eg publishes works targeted at young men/male teens). In Japan living space is way more limited than in most of Europe and Burgerland. Unless you are a collector a lot of people buy a mag, read it during commuting and then throw it away since you don't have space to keep shit at Home. It's also why in many imported prints the paper quality is bad - it's not meant to survive more than two weeks.
>The sale numbers include mags like Shonen Jump
Anon, the sales figures in the OP are for America only.
Shonen Jump the magazine doesn't exist in America, these are all volume sales.
People who say "it's not all capeshit" are huffing on copium. Europe used to make cool stuff but their industry is on life support right now. Only their super old long-running stuff is of any relevance when it comes to sales (which isn't really different from capeshit in principle) and there's no real industry outside of France and Italy. If you are a comic fan who doesn't just want to read capeshit, low effort webcomics or older series manga is your only real option really.
>moron who ignores creator-owned comics/comics that aren't about superheroes has to move the goalposts to a different continent (without sources, of course)
> t. lazy moron who can't find stuff on his own and needs to be told what media to consume
Typical.
This is about sales. I didn't say anything incorrect. The best selling comics in Shartstan are all capeshit and the best selling European comics are long running stuff. The industry is growing and is more profitable than ever but it's all thanks to manga and Korean webtoons.
modern amerimutt media is about as puritanical as it gets. its fricking weird and hilarious you amerimutts censor every kind of sexual stuff. nobody can express any sexy stuff in mainstream media anyjmore. its actually much shitter and puritanical than some chink commie shit.
I legit liked the Constantine movie with Keanu Reeves but the comics have a totally different interpretation of the MC that I don't really like.
Star Wars comics are good in the sense that they stay very close to the movie characters though.
Overall, comics feel too isolated from the movies that usually promote them.
>Easier to get into than most American comics (Start at #1) >Hardly any mid-series artist/writer change >Cheaper (If it's a weekly series, you get like 10 chapters per volume) >Anime adaptations serve to advertise the manga as people want to read ahead >Actually aimed at teenagers rather than awkward adults
Even when I try to read creator-owned/indie/non-superhero stuff, it feels like there's hardly any ambition anymore. It feels like people are writing with a TV show in mind. I can't think of any ongoing comics with the ambition to creating a long-running epic like Bone, Cerebus the Aardvark, or Hellboy (though would be glad to be proven wrong)
>>I hate comic books! They're too hard to follow!!
Read something other than superhero comics from Marvel and DC then. There's tons of stuff out there to read. >>NO!
Why?
!!1
Every single time with you homosexuals. Troon out already and have a nice day.
Wow you couldn't of made a shittier list of crap to wipe my ass with, anon.
Are you sure these are soft issue? I feel like it'll cut the hairs outta my bunghole if I wipe with these.
Paper from those weekly manga anthologies are actually pretty good for wiping if you run out of toilet paper.
> Concrete > Mort Cinder > Cerebus
Good list. I would add:
Asterix (stop at the Great Divide), Tintin, Spirou/Gaston Lagaffe (Franquin's era), The Incal, Valérien et Laureline, The Airtight Garage, V For Vendetta and Judge Dredd.
Just started getting into polish comics. I found a good link to get started:
https://culture.pl/en/article/a-foreigners-guide-to-polish-comics
The chart the anon posted wasn't made by him, and it's supposed to be for black and white comics (though some of these have some color, were intended for color, or become color comics).
>Paper from those weekly manga anthologies are actually pretty good for wiping if you run out of toilet paper.
Which alone makes them more valuable than comics that only smear out the shit with its glossy surface.
Yes thats exactly what you are. Imagine being so smug about being wrong. Worse part is you're a grown ass man and you needed to be fact checked on something so basic.
have a nice day if you can't get basic English right at your age there's no hope.
1 year ago
Anonymous
1 year ago
Anonymous
i'm sorry but you piss me off
1 year ago
Anonymous
Good. Stay mad.
1 year ago
Anonymous
i was apologizing butthole but i see i should have doubled down.
>Anno pauses for a moment, and gives a dark-browed stare out the window. “I don’t see any adults here in Japan,” he says, with a shrug. “The fact that you see salarymen reading manga and pornography on the trains and being unafraid, unashamed or anything, is something you wouldn’t have seen 30 years ago, with people who grew up under a different system of government. They would have been far too embarrassed to open a book of cartoons or dirty pictures on a train. But that’s what we have now in Japan. We are a country of children.”
>Are you talking about yourself anon? Says a voice in his head, here you are in a anime website posting on a comic board, do you truly believe yourself above it all? >The sad fact is you're just as pathetic as those japs, you're deluding yourself pretending otherwise. >Remember when you had dreams, I remember. Every day i pray you'd do something with your life. But look at you at you now.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Anno pauses for a moment, and gives a dark-browed stare out the window. “I don’t see any adults here in Japan,” he says, with a shrug. “The fact that you see salarymen reading manga and pornography on the trains and being unafraid, unashamed or anything, is something you wouldn’t have seen 30 years ago, with people who grew up under a different system of government. They would have been far too embarrassed to open a book of cartoons or dirty pictures on a train. But that’s what we have now in Japan. We are a country of children.”
The frick you two schizo posting about, I just like abe memes
>japs are out there in the trains molesting women so much it birthed a new rape porn genre but its the ones reading manga in public he has a issue with
Huuh based?
Wow you couldn't of made a shittier list of crap to wipe my ass with, anon.
Are you sure these are soft issue? I feel like it'll cut the hairs outta my bunghole if I wipe with these.
> Concrete > Mort Cinder > Cerebus
Good list. I would add:
Asterix (stop at the Great Divide), Tintin, Spirou/Gaston Lagaffe (Franquin's era), The Incal, Valérien et Laureline, The Airtight Garage, V For Vendetta and Judge Dredd.
Just started getting into polish comics. I found a good link to get started:
https://culture.pl/en/article/a-foreigners-guide-to-polish-comics
Why would I read comics? That shit is owned by israelites and made into a cash cow now for whatever is trending currently. I don't even attempt to look at third party anymore. Oh cool. Wow. The latest and greatest super hero is another rehashing of a characfer. Wait. Wait for it. S/he is BLACK AND GAY.
WOAH.
Holy shit.
Mind blown.
SO many people are like... Totally gonna escape into the comic about a homosexual hero. ;^)
I come to this board in once a blue moon to laugh at you troons and neckbeards.
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH PBBBBFFFFT HAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAH
1. You folks are sucking DC/Marvels wiener instead of reading actual good stuff (non-US comics exist)
2. Comics reprints and recolor editions all have the gotham city generic art style
I really wish it wasn't the case but European comics/graphic novels are dying too. Muttshart capeshit will survive through Hollywood, but the actual good Euro stuff is in a much worse spot.
FRICK.
Well, I can only hope that scanlations will start becoming active again. Europe Comics was something I've wanted to happen for over a decade, and it was so great to see when it finally happened.
Because a manga is a self contained story that has a linear reading order and the big two comic producers make stories interweaving multiple runs which swap artists and writers constantly, have crazy varying changes in quality between runs, poor continuity, and get reset every couple of years.
Also, nobody advertises indie comics, most new comics are scrapped after like 3 issues, and the American market has no demand for physical media like the japanese.
Because american comics are goyslop made by israelites and cryptojews to subvert and destroy western civilization and white people. It's full of ugly characters, like their creators, awful art and pozzed stories.
Manga has hot characters with giant breasts, cool fights, stories about imprving yourself and nice art. And made by japs (honorary whites).
> japs (honorary whites).
Since when are japs white? > pic of DBZ
Litteraly japanese capeshit. There are way better mangas. > imprving yourself
Self-inserting shonentard spotted.
This is pretty much where I’m at. I’ve started consuming more Japanese media since 2022 because there has been such an unbearable uptick in propaganda in Western entertainment recently. Literally everything from journalism, to media, to video games has some social/political message it wants to push (and let’s be honest, it’s always left leaning ones). It’s tiring, we need diversity, everything shouldn’t sound like a CNN segment 24/7. I can’t believe Hollywood is just glossing over the success of Top Gun Maverick so it can push more garbage. There’s nothing wrong with pure escapism.
Nobody finds pic related entertaining.
> Thinks western media is exclusively american.
There's your problem.
>Since when are japs white?
Since the WWII they are honorary. >Litteraly japanese capeshit. There are way better mangas.
DBZ is one o the coolest thing ever made. >Self-inserting shonentard spotted.
israelite troony spotted
Because american comics are goyslop made by israelites and cryptojews to subvert and destroy western civilization and white people. It's full of ugly characters, like their creators, awful art and pozzed stories.
Manga has hot characters with giant breasts, cool fights, stories about imprving yourself and nice art. And made by japs (honorary whites).
>Since when are japs white?
Since the WWII they are honorary. >Litteraly japanese capeshit. There are way better mangas.
DBZ is one o the coolest thing ever made. >Self-inserting shonentard spotted.
israelite troony spotted
Nah, American comics would be better represented by an old, emaciated fighter that's got his arms behind his back, handcuffed, with leg irons too, wearing an 80-pound vest, a sleep mask, ear plugs, and a shock collar that goes off every minute.
Frick the American comics industry for badly fricking over comics.
>study used a fricking tiny sample size >what it actually found is that the bullies just had better self-esteem >using a screenshot from the Daily Fail
I remember when trolls used to make an effort
>Scientific studies >no scientific study provided >just some blog passing an online survey and meta analysis off as science
heh the trolls are apparently better at science too
To you manga readers: what are some worthwhile (no isekai, derivative battle shonen/SOL/comedy) manga from 2020 to now?
I liked Goodbye, Eri. Last time I posted this exact question, jannies deleted my post, gave me a warning, but left the East vs West thread I replied to up until it hit bump limit.
I asked what was the Cinemaphile equivalent of Chainsaw Man the other day and the mods banned me for "requesting outside of /r/". I was just genuinely curious if there was any Western comic that was like it. But to answer your question, I liked Bibliomania and Hirayasumi. I'm sure there is a lot more cool stuff out there that didn't receive a translation yet though. The same is true for European comics. Where the hell is the English TL of Le Monde sans fin?
Thanks for the recs. >Le Monde sans fin
This one? There is an older British comic with the same name.
Then why the frick are you asking for stuff that's being published now? There are very few translations even if you count fan and official, there are 50 year old masterpieces you can't read.
>Then why the frick are you asking for stuff that's being published now?
I want to read the recent stuff, see how it's going. I haven't kept up with the past few years of manga. >There are very few translations even if you count fan and official
There's a shitload. Are you joking? >50 year old masterpieces you can't read
Such as?
I asked what was the Cinemaphile equivalent of Chainsaw Man the other day and the mods banned me for "requesting outside of /r/". I was just genuinely curious if there was any Western comic that was like it. But to answer your question, I liked Bibliomania and Hirayasumi. I'm sure there is a lot more cool stuff out there that didn't receive a translation yet though. The same is true for European comics. Where the hell is the English TL of Le Monde sans fin?
>I asked what was the Cinemaphile equivalent of Chainsaw Man the other day and the mods banned me for "requesting outside of /r/"
That's because you're not the first guy to try and make a thread on Cinemaphile about chainsaw man
If you were here last year, there were multiple threads using the images from the manga from banned Cinemaphile users trying to act superior
To put it simply though, the only close comparison to it is Devil man
I don't bother with what's translated so I'm not going to go check for a dumbass like you. As I said, you can't read even 25% of manga that's already been published and even less of currently ongoing stuff.
Manga is cute and fun while comics are about putting your dick in places it shouldn't and how Black folk are better than you because they're stupid, violent animals.
Generally speaking it's because there's more variety, but also because the industry is so big magazines/publishers have to really stand out to get anywhere, so you end up with a lot more weird shit and a lot more stories written/drawn by "outsiders" who would never have been able to make it in the industry if they were in American (for example, Ajin was drawn and later written by a porn artist).
>want to read manga >story has a beginning middle end >you want to get into it, you just read based off friend recs or an anime you watched >wider/more accessible variety
Vs. >want to get into american comics >well do you mean the dc version, the ultimate version, the universe 72528 version >also less centralized ways of reading without paying
> Want to get into american comics
Why? Comics/graphic-novels are way more than just America. Mangas are comics too. South America, Africa and Europe also make them... Why limit yourself to US and Japan?
The Big 2 is finished. I say this as a reader from 1997 when I got my brother's collection of comics as a kid.
The real strength of US comics are the independents and Vertigo which still retains some level of decency despite being owned by DC. Besides that, you'll have to look to Euro comics.
For a long time, I had loathed manga because of weebs, but once I got into college, I read scanlations of Berserk, 20th Century Boys, Heroic Legend of Arslan, and Hunter x Hunter. Say what you want about the Japs, but as many other Cinemaphilemrades have mentioned, there's a clear beginning to start from, there's a variety of genres that the Big 2 rarely touch like slice-of-life or romantic comedy, and most importantly, they're mostly creator-owned and there's no DONUT STEEL retcons or revampings that cape comics do.
Because this is dragon ball all over again except it's now on comic form
My local book store has a shifting shrinking comic aisle, last time I went there it was the corner of two shelves
Meanwhile the CD aisle was converted into a manga section that takes up 15% of the store
I told my LCS guy to get on the manga bandwagon way back in 2007. 11 years later, he thanked me because without manga/anime and Japanese toy models, his store would've gone under. His US comics section is bare bones (though his TPBs is stacked) while he also included action figures, trading cards, and other stuff to pad out his store. He also became a HUGE mecha anime fanboy as well as Japanese live-action superheroes (Kamen Rider and Ultraman) because of what I recommended to him.
I know Cinemaphile gets in arms over Japanese media, but the truth is, anime and manga is selling because there's been more than 20 years of US kids growing up with anime thanks to Toonami/Adult Swim as well as high-speed Internet opening the world to them.
And because of Hollywood going full-on "Get Woke, Go Broke", more people are turning to vidya, anime, manga, and other alternate forms of entertainment that doesn't lecture them on the patriarchy and white men being the source of all evil. Who the frick wants to listen to that shit after a long day at work or from classes?
At least for Hollywood, the 2008 writer's strike is what really destroyed the creativity of studios and the writers that dared to go on strike are blacklisted, hence studios hired Deviantart-level college students who are so full of SJWism that no shit their work is preaching crap.
What bugs me is that DC and Marvel doesn't have the kind of standards it used to have pre-2000's. Nowadays ascended fanboys are the only writers that have some semblance of love for the characters and world they're in charge of. Meanwhile you have these purple-haired multi-pierced non-binary troglodytes self-insert themselves and their woke politics. No shit long-time readers are gonna be turned off.
And what baffles me even more is that companies have the gall to openly bash and mock dissatisfied fans by saying,"THIS ISN'T FOR YOU OPPRESSIVE CISHET WHITE MALES!" and then they turn around and say,"WHY AREN'T YOU BUYING OUR SHIT?!"
>At least for Hollywood, the 2008 writer's strike is what really destroyed the creativity of studios and the writers that dared to go on strike are blacklisted, hence studios hired Deviantart-level college students who are so full of SJWism that no shit their work is preaching crap.
Fricking this so much.
My dad watched that Willow trainwreck and I sat in on an episode and it legit was like watching someone's deviantart comic brought to life, complete with some of the most embarrassing writing I've ever seen.
I've seen fricking isekai anime that were better-written than most Hollywood productions nowadays, especially when it comes to anything in the fantasy genre.
Remember NBC's Heroes? The writer's strike really fricked over that show. Haven't seen Willow yet, but even one of my die-hard leftist friends hates how the series has no semblance to the fun movie.
The only isekai I ever saw was Escaflowne (which I fricking adore) and Dunbine. I've gleamed from Cinemaphile how anime is getting flooded with it, but I'm so far removed from anime fandom (the only thing I consistently read is Berserk because I loved the 1997 anime and stuck with it since 2005 when I started reading it). But I get what you mean. The Japs have their own faults, but their shortcomings are more palatable to deal with than the shit I see in US movies/TV as well as comics. Even Jap vidya doesn't quite succumb to the woke bullshit I see in US vidya.
>Haven't seen Willow yet, but even one of my die-hard leftist friends hates how the series has no semblance to the fun movie.
It's basically what would happen if Twitter made a fantasy show.
It's fricking terrible, along with every other major fantasy TV show from last year, literally all of them were godawful besides maybe House of the Dragon, which is hilarious considering it's the one a lot of people expected to be the worst after GoT S8.
>Twitter
Why do so many companies bother to listen to foaming-at-the-mouth lunatics there?
>House of the Dragon
To be fair, HBO realized Dumb and Dumber shit the bed and they want to regain their massive fandom in the early days of GOT. So they're trying to tone down some of the pozzed shit.
>muh preachy
Here's a manga about a trans man
And this is where manga has the advantage over the Big 2. It's a stand-alone book. If I don't want to read a manga about a trans-dude, I read something else. But DC and Marvel cram this shit in established titles and it gets so tiresome that you have to move onto something else or read older issues that you missed out on which I've been doing the last 8 years.
>If I don't want to read a manga about a trans-dude, I read something else
Hopefully you aren't into vinland saga
1 year ago
Anonymous
Never read it. I just looked it up. Sounds interesting because I actually like reading about Anglo-Saxon history ever since I watched The Last Kingdom.
So apparently there's a troony according to this
That remind me to Cordelia from Vinland Saga. Daughter of the warmonger
. Well so long as they're only a side character without any importance to the plot, I don't give a shit. I'll read it then.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Unfortunately Vinland Saga went to shit far before the troony showed up, when it turned into a shonen with homies throwing spears at mach 2 and destroying entire buildings.
Farmland Saga was the peak of that manga.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Farmland Saga was the peak of that manga.
Yes, and it's still shit. That manga was never good.
>literally all of them were godawful besides maybe House of the Dragon
They were all garbage besides HotD because every streaming service wanted to have their own Game of Thrones, but none of these Fantasy worlds, or Middle Earth for that matter, work as the next GoT. Only House of the Dragon succeeds because HotD doesn't have to funamentally change what it is to change a trend
No, they were all garbage because they were horribly-written, while HotD was the only one that WASN'T written by a college-aged deviantart reject.
What makes HOTD's decent success even more amazing is that the source material is a bunch of half-assed histories from chroniclers. There isn't even an actual novel with meaningful dialogue like GOT had with the 5 books. Fire & Blood is like taking a junior high textbook on medieval Europe and making a TV series out of a few paragraphs of a dynastic civil war.
Comics have trouble breaking into any of the age ranges between 12 and 45.
They basically only appeal to older people with nostalgia and young children who read whatever their parents buy them.
They especially struggle with appealing to young men, for a variety of reasons that will likely never change.
Because most good manga gets an adaptation while most good comics get no exposure to the mainstream because all the tv networks have this weird culture where you can’t get shit fine if you don’t have the right connections to the right zillionaire pedophiles.
>while most good comics get no exposure to the mainstream because all the tv networks have this weird culture where you can’t get shit fine if you don’t have the right connections to the right zillionaire pedophiles.
Hollywood is starting to collapse. It's far from being destroyed, but you can definitely tell that it's on shaky foundations and continues to crumble if this flawed system is still in place.
Manga have a shit ton of weekly series, is very cheap, has clear start, and is intimately tied with anime/animation. Comics are usually monthly, expensive (4$ for 1 issue, are you a dumbass?), has weird setup, and is nowhere as connected to animation.
Of course, indie comics fix some of these problems, but it seems Americans love capeshit because marvel and dc destroy indies in sales and popularity. Manga also provides a different style and source. You’ll barely find anything close to a battle series or a fluffy cute romcom in comics, and manga has those in abundance.
Why the frick would ant you g adult or teenager find comics appealing? There’s a reason why the main readers are white men who probably have a wife and kids already
>Why the frick would ant you g adult or teenager find comics appealing? There’s a reason why the main readers are white men who probably have a wife and kids already
There's more to comics than just basic capeshit
Yea, and why would any young adult or teenager pay $4 for a 25 page comic that can be hit or miss? Where you can’t even tease it out because there no animated equivalent?
In America non-capeshit stuff is so niche that it's not even worth talking about. The only American "graphic novels" that attain commercial success nowadays is stuff aimed at women and gays.
This. There are popular ones like Invinbcle, Walking Dead, Saga, but most of a monthly top 50 list is like 90%+ marvel and DC. Indie comics would be more popular if they had adaptions that were good (see Invincible), but good luck ever getting that to happen. Until Marvel and DC fall, which will never happen, indie comics would be in the back of everyone’s minds.
And even then, I’d bet the majority of the most popular non marvel and dc comics are cape series as well (Invincible. spawn, Vanish for example). American just love superheros
>Invincible
Was never the big seller people say it was
Chew, The Walking Dead, Saga, etc all outsold it
Invincible just had longevity and never fell below a point where floppies would be unsustainable
Well those things are the gold mine for a lot of YA publishing companies the problem is this
Yea, and why would any young adult or teenager pay $4 for a 25 page comic that can be hit or miss? Where you can’t even tease it out because there no animated equivalent?
they're too expensive and not so good or entertaining as your usual YA novel.
I have a friend who grew up with justice league cartoon, superhero vidya, but as a adult only reads manga and watches anime. For casuals who dont look heavily into media themselves, there are no new appealing fun escapism things to get into that even function as coherent stories from the west. Not even casuals can ignore it anymore, whoever caters to the geek wins, entertainment lives and dies by geeks. Always remember.
The industry doesn't give a shit about comics. They want money, and the way they get money is adapting comics into live-action movies.
It's not like Japan where they do popularity polls of shonen characters, and take other measures to maximize profits from print alone, as well as the inevitable anime adaptations. Basically, Japan is doing business in manga, while comics are putting all of their energy into movies. Despite this, manga is largely trash, which is still better than being all trash.
The comic industry just isn’t made to be big. The manga is literally made to pump out as much as much as possible (weekly series) to as much people as possible (cheap prices, animating eveything). Comics will never get that cheap. They will never have weekly series be the norm.
If the comic industry wants to compete with the manga industry, they need to find something to compete with them. Regardless of quality, Does the comic industry defeat the manga industry in any of these? >Prices. Manga are way less money >Cartoons. Manga get more anime >Abundance. More manga are being made. >Speed. The most popular manga come out once a week. Most popular comics come out once a month. >Genres. The only thing the comic industry has over manga is more superhero stories. The biggest genres in manga are fightgay shut (battle shonens, action shit that puts emphasis on the fights), cutesy stories (romcoms, romance, slice of life), wish fulfillment (harems, power fantasy, isekai, ecchi). Comic industry has no where close to as much series in those genres as the manga industry does.
Korea and China are able to compete through having most of their series be cheap/free, phone adjusted webcomic scrollers with color, while having genres that aren’t in manga -cultivation, Wuxia, etc. Comic industry just needs to find their space?
I think another difference is that for most anime it is an adaptation for something so there are multiple mediums for the same product. That just isn’t the case for comics and when it is it’s usually a movie or something people have to commit to watching rather than episodic stuff in the 22 minute range.
No it’s not you piece of shit. Indie comics are popular and making sales, especially as graphic novels. It’s only you midwits who think “comics, oh you mean superheroes”
frick off with your niche bullshit. You ask any random person who doesn't eternally live on the internet what a comic is they will immediate go to spiderman, batman, and the like
frick off with your niche bullshit. You ask any random person who doesn't eternally live on the internet what a comic is they will immediate go to spiderman, batman, and the like
You don't even want to read anything other than capeshit, you just want to b***h and complain. Go waste someone else's time.
Why dont they make something like shonen jump that contains multiple comics and comes out monthly or whatever? I would absolutely buy a phone book eith all sorts of comics in it. I rarely buy comics because i hate how expensive they are here for how little you get.
1)english shonen jump sucked and was printed on premium paper, included barely any series and was so lagging that by the time they released they were many chapters behind
2)im not talking about manga, but comics . I dont know enough about the demos to comment further on this point, but i fail to see how it wouldnt work. If comic sales are so ridiculously low for super heros as listed here, why not try combining some. Heck wasnt that the original premise of stuff like action comics in the first place?
Image is literally doing that right now
I want to look into this. I mist admit i read idw more than anything.
>are doing fine
No, they're not. The rest of the industry is drowning, and they're drowning slightly less. There are comics with nationwide distribution, at the absolute height of IP cultural awareness, that can't even sell 50k copies.
Image is trying their best tbh. Even though they’re still nowhere close to DC or Marvel. Why isn’t there a Saga animated/live action series? Outside of Spawn, which is more capeshit, that’s their most popular series. Although adaptions are a shitshow and aren’t guaranteed success, look at Deadly Class. But it’s worth the effort
>Why isn’t there a Saga animated/live action series?
BKV doesn't want an adaptation
Image central is purely hands-off which is their biggest double edged sword
It's literally just called Image!
It's a limited anthology series made to celebrate their 30th anniversary last year
https://imagecomics.com/comics/series/image
The thing I hate most about the current comic industry is that it feels like a lot of indies are being made specifically to be a TV adaption shit, since they know the only real route for popularity for 98% of indie comics is a live action adaption.
Since we're having this thread again, anyone want to talk about how Dark Crisis revealed that the Great Darkness is responsible for EVERY event in DC now?
The Anti-Monitor, Gog, Extant, the Anti-Life Entity, the Hyperfly, Superboy-Prime, the Upside-Down Man, Ares, Nekron, Doomsday, Eclipso, Mandrakk, Neron, Dr. Manhattan, the Empty Hand, and Barbatos, all of them were apparently working for the Great Darkness. How much stupider is this shit going to get? How long until the Great Darkness is revealed as some smaller part of an EVEN MORE evil and EVEN MORE powerful villain that will make sure NOTHING WILL BE THE SAME until another writer decides to bring back the previous status quo?
Maybe this kind of dumb and predictable shit is why comics are going under?
You people live to say comic are suffering, but how would you change it? Huh? What would you do to the comic industry? Marvel and DC hold the wide majority of the market share anyways, and seem to care more about movies.
The US comic scene has been a long term shitshow as a result of decades of mismanagement by several power and money hungry companies like Marvel, DC, Diamond, and Archie. All of these businesses had a hand in shitting up the country's output in the medium via moronic means, like the CCA and the 90's crash. This leads to stuff like: >Why is the primary format still floppies? >Why are these floppies treated as collector's items even after the speculator crash? >Why are you all still stuck in LCSs? >Where is the genre diversity? >Where is the actual demographic diversity? (and no, fricking over an IP for brownie points doesn't count.)
Japan really didn't have to try to take over the American market (in fact, more manga get official translations in French than in English) and yet they did so anyway because everyone in the business here is fricking moronic.
To be fair, I think the primary reason manga hasn’t taken over here is because of the sheer amount of animated adaptions. The adaptions are also usually good as “advertisements” so to speak, whereas the marvel and dc movies feel like their own thing, and less like a partner to the comics. And outside of marvel and dc, there’s only a handful of adaptions. Some suck, but the decent ones always help the comics do better.
If I had a nickel every time I saw people act as if Invincible was made yesterday despite it starting in 2003 or that it's the outlier for having a beginning middle and end, I'd be Scrooge McDuck
How have we not seen more Invincible’s (animated adaptions) pop up yet? Invincible was literally everywhere when it was running. You’re telling me that wasn’t enough for other comics to get their chance?
In 2020, Remender said a writing team was working on getting an animated adaptation for one his works made
Judging by what he's been saying on his Instagram lately, it MIGHT be Black Science
I don't think I've seen an American comic property not named Watchmen get noticed by the public before an adaptation came out.
To be fair, I think the primary reason manga hasn’t taken over here is because of the sheer amount of animated adaptions. The adaptions are also usually good as “advertisements” so to speak, whereas the marvel and dc movies feel like their own thing, and less like a partner to the comics. And outside of marvel and dc, there’s only a handful of adaptions. Some suck, but the decent ones always help the comics do better.
It helps but the thing is that there are manga series that became best sellers in the US before their anime came out like Chainsaw Man, Spy X Family, and Komi-san.
This. Japan threat anime and action movies as ads. They don't want to earn money on it. It's just an ad, so people buy more books. In West, books (both comic and novels) are adapted, so movie earns money.
That's why anime series rarely show the ending of manga. The ending is in books. They want to buy them. Or at least install comic app to read new chapter.
Based take. Manga doesn't win because it's better. Manga wins by default because there is NO competition. Where are American comedy comic books? Where are love stories? Where is mystery and horror? Where is coming-of-age? Where are erotic thrillers? Where is fantasy? Seriously, they are missing fantasy! Where are dragons?
US comic industry isn't even competing with manga.
>Where are American comedy comic books?
I Hate Fairyland >love stories?
Love Everlasting >mystery and horror?
Stray Dogs, Little Monsters, Killadelphia, SIKTC, Bone Orchard >fantasy
Monstress, Seven to Eternity, Birthright >Coming-of-Age
Whatever Scholastic is publishing
Heh: the fact that anons have never heard of these means marvel and Dc are doing their job well. Dominating the comic industry . All hail our superhero saviors!
Bruh, we have Gert threads from time to time
I Hate Fairyland is one of the more well known modern Image titles period even on this shithole of a board
SIKTC is also well known when you look past said shithole of a board, it actually sells well
Saga levels even
Check every top 50 monthly list and 45 will be marvel and DC, usually the rest will be spawn, Saga, and SIKTC. Suck it, no one cares about indies. Marvel and DC push out better quality shit and they’re rewarded by being way more popular
1 year ago
Anonymous
Or…or..or maybe they’re not as popular as capeshit because they’re worse?
popularity != quality
that's like saying Big Mouth is better than Primal
1 year ago
Anonymous
Not, but it matches for comics. Most indie comics suck compared to cape comics
1 year ago
Anonymous
There are more great indie comics than there are great cape comics.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I think more indie comics should be like Pink Lemonade right now, it looks like a cape comic but it's really not. It has the eye catching costumes but it's really just lovable weird outcasts trying to get by and the conflicts are exaggerated relatable conflicts. Stuff like that takes the trappings and puts it in an unexpected context, which I think should be necessary for things to evolve
1 year ago
Anonymous
They've been doing that and it doesn't work, at least not for long.
No there aren’t, that’s an insane take lol.
Easily more great indies than great capes.
1 year ago
Anonymous
It all depends on the approach and how appealing it comes across, and in that case it's very appealing. Short-form story too as I think the series is a mini, ending soon and all that. There's something to be said for good contained accessible comics that do what they set out to quickly and take a bow
Because the majority of newbies like you either are capeshitters, licenseshitter, or tourists who don't actually want to get into comics but want to pretend to still know shit about it regardless
Kek. You are right. They do exist. In manga, big publishers have big genre diversity. So I only looked at few biggest company to see if it exists.
I guess the capeshit destroyed the reputation of us comic industry.
I searched for DC horror comic and it gives me batman but with more edgy art style.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Nice House on the Lake
Soul Plumber
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's just DC nowadays problem. Their genres is divided to:
Batman books
Team books which Batman take all the spotlights while other leaguers become jobbers. Same could be applied to batfams
Finally other heroes or characters book
Capeshit saved the comic industry fool. Without cape shit the comic industry would be dead right now. Remove marvel and dc output by just 50% itd still end up dead
>the most widely recognized and commercialy successful US comics outside of capeshit are probably Scott Pilgrim and The Walking Dead >both printed in book format in black-and-white
You are probably right.
>Why is the primary format still floppies?
Because it is the cheapest option for periodicals, and that's the real problem - the addiction to monthly sales. Retailers, publishers, and the distributor need it. Diamond does not operate anything like a book distributor. They don have the space to store books long term.
If all we did were traditional books, we wouldn't even be printing in Canada. We'd be printing in Asia, where it's cheaper and the quality is higher. >Why are these floppies treated as collector's items even after the speculator crash?
Stupidity. >Why are you all still stuck in LCSs?
Because comic publishers need the money to come in almost immediately and predictably. That's the primary purpose of the non-returnable direct market. Publishers in the book trade do not get paid when the books are shipped. They only get paid when the books actually sell at the retail level. >Where is the genre diversity?
Because of the non-returnable nature of the direct market, retailers are risk averse to ordering and allowing non-cape books to sit on a shelf and be discovered. Publishers in turn are not incentivized to release comics that aren't superheroes, because retailers don't order them. This creates a vicious circle of disinterest. >Where is the actual demographic diversity?
The lack of demographic diversity is part of the larger problem, that comics aren't attracting new readers at all. This is a dying hobby, in that the readers are literally dying.
Where manga has comics beat is in attracting new, young readers who will continue to read because there are mature manga for them, and bring their own kids into the hobby because there are kids manga for them.
If you haven't picked up a theme yet, the comics industry at every level thinks in the short term. Some of it is stupidity, but it's also because comics live a paycheck-to-paycheck existence, which makes change difficult. The only way out is to have started independent book divisions 20 years ago.
I've tried to buy floppies before. Fricking awful. Ads in the beginning, end, and fricking MIDDLE of one god damn floppy. As in I paid for three different pages of ads to support a single monthly series.
Because it's relying too much on reboots and old series. For fricks sake, Spiderman is from 60s! Where am I even supposed to start reading it? In case of manga, i just pick up vol 1. I read chapter 1 of new IP to decide if I like it and there are new series every month. They introduce new characters and worlds and get axed when they don't perform anymore. There are different genres from superhero, fantasy to slice of life and love stories.
All American comic is just gay old men in leather pants. For fricks sake, it got mogged in sales by a superhero manga series that is inspired by American comic! You know why? Because it was new series with new characters. That's the only reason. Nobody want to read 50 years worth of comic books to catch up.
Euro comic is much better in that regard. Where do you start Asterix? At the volume 1!
>hurr start from manga number 1 >Is that volume one of Naruto, naruto shippuden, boruto, Naruto: The Seventh Hokage and the Scarlet Spring, Naruto: The Path Lit by the Full Moon, Naruto: Sasuke's Story - The Uchiha and the Heavenly Stardust, Naruto: Konoha's Story—The Steam Ninja Scrolls: The Manga, Rock Lee's Springtime of Youth Full-Power Ninja Chronicles, Naruto: Chibi Sasuke's Sharingan Legend, or one of the 32 naruto novels? >Sh-shut up!
Do American comics have the equivalent of battle manga? I’ve read comics with fights but the fights are either glossed over, extrmely short, or lack any dynamics/look stiff.
Do American comics have the equivalent of battle manga? I’ve read comics with fights but the fights are either glossed over, extrmely short, or lack any dynamics/look stiff.
American comics for a battle manga fan? I’ve read Luther Strode, Lazarus, and Invinicble
Most manga are auteur projects yet get proper animated adaptations easily. Meanwhile to get an adaptation in the West indie comics need to be a fricking smash hit. Basically the door to manga is wide open through anime while western animation languishes doing whatever the hell Bob's Burgers is with only the rare serious project like Pantheon, Invincible, or Onyx Equinox breaking through, to the point that they stand out from the crowd by simple virtue of not being a two dollar sitcom.
I think we're really at a dire point in entertainment because of how few 'riskier' projects are greenlit ever anymore unless they are indeed a fricking smash hit or have a celeb attached. There's no middle ground for weird cool indie projects to get thrown some spotlight with mid-budget adaptations that have room to become bigger hits. Cool indie projects don't need to be adapted of course, and it shouldn't be the bar for "success", but it is a nice way to get more attention/money/maybe even more readership lol
Manga just tends to have more going on.
Especially when it comes to things that would be appealing to young adults.
There's shit in officially-published manga that you would never in a million years see in a published American comic, even an indie one.
Don't care
Imagine being an Americuck
Hard to take these threads even half seriously when you clowns never post any kind of source. Or post numbers that don't make any sense because they're so clearly intentionally vague. If I used to sell one comic book last year and sold three this year, I'd have tripled my sales, but still only sold three comics. If I sold a million, and only sold a thousand more, that's a tiny fraction of an increase. I have no fricking clue what the time frame here is or what kind of actual increases have occurred.
>Bait thread doesn't make sense
Yes, I believe that's typically the point.
I didn't pay for a single american comic book last year. What about that?
>last year
checked but realistically you should have stopped buying american comics a decade ago. same for manga.
I've never paid money for any comic, manga, anime or cartoon.
Thanks for your brave support towards all the arts anon
Don't worry, friend. It's not just the arts. I'm an equal opportunity pirate. Software, porn, games, movies, tv shows I pirate it all.
https://www.comicsbeat.com/report-graphic-novel-sales-were-up-65-in-2021/
OP's pic shows the percentage change between 2020 to 2021 according to Bookscan. While comic shops are not fully represented in Bookscan (because many do not have point of sale hardware and floppy comics do not use ISBN numbers), it is an apples-to-apples comparison in that it's superhero graphic novels compared to superhero graphic novels, and manga compared to manga.
Context: the fact that superhero graphic novels remained relatively flat between 2020 and 2021 is cause for concern, because 2020 was the pandemic shutdown era. In addition, other non-superhero graphic novels increased at a rate 10 times that of superhero graphic novels.
>While comic shops are not fully represented in Bookscan (
Yeah, those are so successful they keep closing
Le big cope
Don't get me wrong, I was just providing the context at the time for data from 2 years ago. At this point, anyone who doesn't think the direct market is in trouble and manga is winning are in deep denial. Can't fix that even with data and evidence.
third post best post
love how this doesn't even bring up all the shitty woke beanmouth shows that get produced with LGBT themes. btw the western animation industry is down the shitter.
>"Buzzwords, buzzwords, buzzwords!"
>"if only cartoons weren't as political as my animes"
>"But SU, Big mouth, familyguy and Rick & Mority"
>Bean mouth over generalization
Next time, maybe don't be full of shit?
Prove him wrong right now.
>ending statements in question marks
Uhmm sweetie? twitter is like?? that way??? i just like, can you like stop?? also no more unsolicited opnions on Israel??
Love how this was obviously written by an ESL or literal moron western cartoon wienersucker
You don't like western content, why the frick do you even post here?
i like how the anti-bait thread image has bait in it, the "sunrise stance" is basicaly a meme, thats like a jap saying westerners cant do sound design because of the "wilhelm scream".
They hate you because you tell the truth
>3-way bingo
>thread hasn't even reached 200 posts yet
Comics
>Try to start from the issue “one”
>Find out the character actually has been on tons of adventures, has died a billion times, is a clone but also isn’t, and ETC
>Most of the issues are filler that have little-to-nothing to do with the overall story
>Artist and writer change, ruining everything
Manga
>Start from volume one
>It’s the actual beginning of the story
>Everything contributes to the overall plot or character development
>Only one team or guy working on it through the story
Marketing
Accessibility
Variety
Price
Misconceptions that it's all capeshit
>Comics
Just
Read
Creator
Owned
>Just read creator owned
Okay, let’s do Spa- Oh, it’s the same.
>Immediately thinks of Spawn
Bruh, there's more to Image than just Spawn
There's more to Image than just capeshit
There's more to creator owned comics than just Image
thinks of Spawn
Why wouldn’t I? He fits your criteria and is the most popular hero outside of Marvel and DC.
>Bruh, there's more to Image than just Spawn
You’re right, let’s look at Haunt. It’s the same. In fact, the artist and writer changing KILLED the comic. Let’s move onto Witchblade. It sucks, the games did it better.
>There's more to creator owned comics than just Image
Like what? The first thing I think of when I see “creator owned comics that are similar to manga” are Bone, Amulet, and other graphic novels.
>You’re right, let’s look at Haunt. It’s the same. In fact, the artist and writer changing KILLED the comic. Let’s move onto Witchblade. It sucks, the games did it better.
Like I said, there's more to Image than just capeshit
What is that?
East of West, it's a science fiction comic with the same writer and artist across every issue
>45 issues across 6 years
lazy shits, ennis & robertson crapped out double that in 5 years
>Like what?
Blacksad, Beautiful Darkness, Concrete, The Many Deaths of Laila Starr, Gung-Ho, Animal Castle, The Goon, Usagi Yojimbo, Beasts of Burden, etc
>Split into a million little pieces and or never-ending
Yet another reason to despise comics.
into a million little pieces and or never-ending
>Beautiful Darkness
Bruh, it's a standalone graphic novel
Say that to series like I Hate Fairyland, I love that comic but Skottie shouldn't have given the revival the same name as the original series.
There's at least 4 people working on all manga. Do you know nothing about the manga industry? Mangaka don't do all the drudge work.
Mangaka handle all the writing themselves and only answer to their editors. And even then the big names like Togashi can and do tell the editor and even the publisher to frick off. Apprentices are hired by the mangaka to do tones, text and backgrounds, but it's not a requirement. Lots of mangaka prefer to work without them.
>And even then the big names like Togashi can and do tell the editor and even the publisher to frick off.
Yeah Togashi does that *now* because he's in a position to *now*. Togashi was also subject to literally one of the most notorious examples of industry abuse there was when his editor *locked* him in a hotel room and forced him to work on chapters to be allowed to leave.
That's like the worst example of editorial abuse in the industry, but the fact is most mangaka actually do have to eat shit from their editors and especially their publishers. Bigger names might get leeway unless they signed a shit contract or are working on a series they don't own and smaller names working on a series doing well with a contract that would let them jump magazines can always threaten to do that to keep their editor and publisher in line, but for the most part mangaka are expected to follow any orders they get.
As another example involving Togashi, he wasn't allowed to end YYH when he wanted to because it was doing too well so he deliberately tanked writing quality for the series to drive the numbers down so the publisher would let him kill it.
Togashi was notoriously the subject of A LOT of bullshit early on in his career which is why nobody begrudges him the endless fricking hiatuses nowadays.
To be fair you must have seen togashi's living conditions. The guy's a slob and vidya addict, he's a slacker even before his back gave out. I don't blame someone for locking him in mangaka timeout until he finishes all his homework. It's not like they starved and beat him and frankly we could use that kind of harsh consequence for the hacks here in the west who churn out slop for a generous paycheck. At least based togashit does good work.
>togashit does good work.
eh
As good as any other shonenshit. You know, whenever he actually gets around to doing anything at all
>I don't blame someone for locking him in mangaka timeout until he finishes all his homework.
I believe the technical term is fricking kidnapping.
Yes and?
One dude is responsible for all the important shit, inkers and assistants come and go but deciding what happens and how it gets framed in the page are where 99% of a comic's intent gets decided
Yep. The weird thing is though it really shouldn't be as hard to get into Big Two comics as it currently is. DC purposely makes it as difficult as possible by renumbering their trade paperbacks at volume 1 every fricking year. They could put like a simple timeline or something at the start of their books but I guess that's too much for those idiots.
>search for Spider-Man vol.1 as I prefer hardcover books
>redirects me to Vol.1 Brand New Day by Slott, instead of the Back to basics which is the most recent one
And that’s how many don’t bother actually reading the source material
>Be young man
>Turn on Naruto, One Piece, or DBZ
>Watch engaging relatable stories with fun characters, good world building, sexy women, and themes of never giving up
>Be young man
>Turn on Marvel
>Get lectured but ugly women about how men bad and you’re not doing enough for LGBT and BLM
Wrong board
>Discussion about the medium of comics
>Cinemaphile troony seethes because uncomfortable truths are mentioned
>>Cinemaphile troony seethes because uncomfortable truths are mentioned
You morons never bother to even get into comics, at best you attempted to get into basic b***h capeshit when other publishers exist but don't fix your narrative
You don't want a solution, you don't want a debate
Frick off
Ya seethin
Ya copin
Ya maldin
Why the frick are you even on this board?
I only come here to post American Dad threads and go on the AniDom general, if Cinemaphile threads didn't archive so fast I'd post there instead.
If you killed yourself you can avoid these threads.
Just a suggestion.
You know when a car crash happens and you can't help but stop and stare at it.
That's western cartoons/comics.
>I'm an incel with no life and I hate woman
No I just think the guy's just a twat
>the western comic industry is shit
>"y-you hate women!"
kek
>Turn on Marvel
Are you moronic?
>DBZ
>engaging relatable stories with fun characters, good world building, sexy women
Seriously? In DBZ?
nta but worldbuilding in dragonball doesn't really exist
the other two are legitimate points, if you wouldn't 18 or bulma you hella gay dawg
Z Videl is vastly superior.
Unironically yeah.
This is pretty much where I’m at. I’ve started consuming more Japanese media since 2022 because there has been such an unbearable uptick in propaganda in Western entertainment recently. Literally everything from journalism, to media, to video games has some social/political message it wants to push (and let’s be honest, it’s always left leaning ones). It’s tiring, we need diversity, everything shouldn’t sound like a CNN segment 24/7. I can’t believe Hollywood is just glossing over the success of Top Gun Maverick so it can push more garbage. There’s nothing wrong with pure escapism.
Nobody finds pic related entertaining.
marvel and dc had no presence on me during my childhood years
maybe some batmam cartoons but i was huge on naruto and dbz with their animes and games
now that my generation is of age we buy manga and weeb merch like crazy
t. 25
Lgbt exist too in manga bro
Indeed it does, but it's not in-your-face preachy. It's very organic how the Japs do it.
The Japs can do diversity like depicting non-whites and LGBTQIA+ way better than most US companies can.
>t's not in-your-face preachy. It's very organic how the Japs do it.
Not even slightly
Anon, that's bara.
And how does that except it from being lgbt stuff?
If it looks gay, talks gay, has men having sex, then it is gay
>Looks this up
>Writer is a prolific writer of gay manga since the 80s
And like I said, this is organic. It's not like this is someone doing this to virtue signal. He's been covering taboo topics like this for the Jap market as his career.
For instance, take Boys Don't Cry. The director is a self-proclaimed queerdyke. It's a film about the true story of a transman in the 90's that got murdered. No shit the director is going to address something that's crucial to LGBTQIA+ circles because the 90's was not a friendly era for the non-hetero non-cis people. This is organic.
What's not organic is suddenly retconning Iceman into being gay all this time or other asspulls. Marvel's already had openly gay mutants like Northstar who actually has a personality besides being homo.
Anon. You posted manga targeted to gay audience. This kind of stuff is only read by gay men (and probably few women with fetishes).
>muh preachy
Here's a manga about a trans man
There was already a manga about trannies back in 2002. There is manga about everything since it's such a huge and diverse medium. Graphic novels are full of this stuff too but nobody cares because they're niche. It's only a problem if you shoehorn it where it doesn't belong.
They sure do.
That remind me to Cordelia from Vinland Saga. Daughter of the warmonger
Wow look a couple manga in like 50 million are woke
Manga I never heard of before at that
Yeah, but they've been doing it since way before it was trendy.
Yeah but its not standard in manga, you have to seek it out.
Anything is in manga if you look hard enough. The japs are just as depraved as anyone else but their society still (correctly) frowns on flaunting it publicly (mostly).
>how men bad
Heh
Kaguya-sama - Love is War Chapter 257
Comics rarely get any good animated adaptations or cross-media promotion.
Even the biggest movie franchise of all time does basically zero promotion for any of the comics it draws from.
Shit like this is why
The majority of people complaining never even read comics to begin with
If you didn't drop capecuckery a decade ago, you're a moronic transvestite.
Where's your source on that? It sounds like one of those things that people say because it sounds good and supports their preconceived idea.
Doesn't read comics anymore, you mean
Why doesn’t manga make as much money as Korean Webcomics?
Because manga is undermonetized. Webtoons get that mobile ad revenue.
Shit like that is why I've said for fricking years comics need to go back to including ads and even need to start including product placements in the pages themselves. What if the Batmobile was canonically a modified Honda? How much would that be worth?
>Why doesn’t manga make as much money as Korean Webcomics?
1. Korean webcomics don't make as much as manga because they're free to read, and most of the ad revenue goes to Webtoons (the company).
2. While manga falling into the trap of being mostly MMO/Isekaishit, Korean webcomics are a lot more genre diverse than manga ever was.
3. The fact that both Korean webcomics and Japanese manga is wiping their ass with American comics is more of an American problem than anything else.
They're worse slave drivers than the japs are. I've slot count of how many webtoons I've read end up changing artist when season 2 arrives. The artist for Solo Leveling died like 6 months after the webtoon ended, probably working while ill.
Maybe that's why their stories are so good?
Good products require hard work.
>comics? no thanks. keep your dinosaur shit, the MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE is here!!!
trannies and weebs buy manga
old white men buy comics
comics try hard to cater to trannies, which pisses off old white men
old white men stop buying comics
trannies continue to buy manga and not comics
Ask the people who make comics, you'll get your answer.
because Americans can't write fiction, their only claim to fame is that they had banks able to loan lodes of money while other more artistic countries where fighting two world wars on top of themselves
Frank Herbert
The Manga from magazines have to compete with each other for relevance. So it breeds more creativity and diversity in stories. It would be cool for there to be a Shonen jump like magazine in American grocery stores and other places like that.
>Cinemaphile autist malding, spam reporting, and spamming the thread
Again, if you killed yourself you would see less of these threads.
>if you killed yourself
no u
Also trolls (the modern day term for bully) are studied to live better lives. Mental illness chads how do we keep winning?
>study used a fricking tiny sample size
>what it actually found is that the bullies just had better self-esteem
>using a screenshot from the Daily Fail
I remember when trolls used to make an effort
Too bad that study doesn't apply to you or anyone else ITT.
It almost 100% comes down to art style specifically the way faces are drawn. No bug eyes no buy. Most manga, disney/pixar movies, and comics tell equally uninteresting stories but 2 out of 3 of these things sell. The manga industry would die overnight if they switched to basic anatomy 101 and pseudorealism
If that's the case, why don't comics like Monkey Meat and Kaya, ones with more unique artstyles fail to sell as well as basic anatomy photo realism comics?
Monkey Meat sucks.
All of those semi-realistic manga still have bug-eyed characters. It's not nearly the same.
"House style" art, which is a catch-all term for corporate-approved superhero art you mainly see at the big 2 got even worse with the dull realism once they started rolling out movies.
The alternatives at the big 2 are hiring artists that can't even crank out House style shit, aiming for some rushed tumblr garbage, tracers, artists emulating something like Kirby, but poorly, and artists with a manga influence. That last one is the only one worth checking out, honestly.
Made in Abyss sucks ass like that toilet. Shit characters, shit lore, shit story.
If you just read it to jerk off, you're doing it right.
There's plenty of manga with semi-realistic artstyles that sell well. Berserk, Jojo, Slam Dunk, Chainsaw Man, etc. The problem is that the standard capeshit arstyle has no personality and you might as well be watching live action instead, which is what happens; capeshit only finds success in Hollywood blockbusters and TV series.
That's a nice looking cover.
>There's plenty of manga with semi-realistic artstyles
Yes the dominant artstyle in Japan *is* semi-realism with alien faces, learn to read weeb moron.
nobody likes bug eyes idiot, except for the 10 homosexuals who still enjoy anything chibi.
lmao the most commonly read manga isn't drawn in such styles anymore my Black person.
Comics are dying and the industry is only worthwhile to normies when it produced a movie.
Enjoy your corpse party, homosexual
Why is this anon recommending a visual novel?
Well he's recommending
>that VN
so he wants more people to read a horror nukige where elementary schoolers rape adults, lesbian sex is everywhere, and more.
Because manga knows how to get 'em young.
Pretty much everyone under the age of 50 grew up regularly watching anime, many of which basically exist to advertise manga.
Even as someone who was one of those weirdo kids who read the newspaper comics every day and was big into kid's comics/print media like Captain Underpants and Diary of a Wimpy Kid, I eventually gave all those up in favor of watching Naruto and Soul Eater and Gintama and the like.
thread hidden
have a nice day op
Because comics are boring?
lots of reasons that comics will continue to ignore.
Because 90% of comics are either: >photorealistic traces with detailed teeth and the expressiveness of a monolith, covered in text walls so thick the author might've as well typed a novel or
>adaptations of crudely drawn newspaper strips with dull punchlines and awfully repetitive multi-strip arcs
82
Million
Copies
In
ONE
year.
Wrong board
>easier to pirate than capeshit
>still makes more money
Lel, mogged at the speed of light
Dude, they're both equally easy to pirate
I think anon's referring to the fact that there are literally dozens upon dozens of sites you can go to for pirating manga, while I can only think of maybe 3 for comics.
Hundreds of reasons.
I prefer great comics to great manga, in all honesty.
manga gives people beep stories and great characters while comics are just propaganda.
>manga gives people beep stories and great characters while comics are just propaganda
>propaganda
Yes
I mean, this one is literally true, it's a boy who ends up trapped in his sister's body due to "science" shenanigans.
She also later gets raped, as is obligatory for a dramatic seinen manga.
An anti consumer distribution model
Digital or Print?
There's good stuff out there, comics industry just has a broken distribution model and as a result the good stuff that's out there stays pretty obscure unless you're actively seeking it out. I feel like comic pubs should be getting outside the direct market/comic shop system more and trying to put comics in more accessible places again but nobody wants to jump outside the box cuz staying with things the way they currently are is what barely keeps the lights on.
Marketing things better is a big thing too, there is zero marketing for cool weird indie books that might find a larger audience but publishers don't promote them say, the way they do a licensed title. I can't tell you how many people I see saying "Oni Press? Do they publish anything other than Rick & Morty comics?" Yea they do, they've got some really good indie books right now that get no real marketing whatsoever and any buzz that's out there is just people discovering them and saying "hey this is good, why don't more people know about this?" Idk
Most people think of capeshit when they think of Western Comics and capeshit has a way higher barrier of entry than most manga.
By "higher barrier" do you mean affirmative action?
...no. How many schizo logical leaps did you have to make for that to work in your head?
0. It's all trannies and poc now.
I wish comics weren't shit.
there aren't any good adaptions of comic books or superhero comic books, when the Invincible show aired the Invincible comics sold 100,000 more copies, imo Marvel and DC should make a high budget cartoon based off a comic run, you have decades of content to go off of and so many great stories to tell, maybe even make a animated universe, it's literally what the japanese do, pick up a random comic story and make it into a high budget action cartoon with cool fights and a decent soundtrack, if you were to make a good adaption people would want to spoil themselves and see what's going to happen next before the new season comes out so they buy the comic book or manga and read it
>and make it into a high budget action cartoon with cool fights and a decent soundtrack
Easier said than done, especially the latter.
I think we need another Invincible level hit but not for capeshit
Tear down the misconception
Superior Spider-Man is begging for an adaptation right now
>pick up a random comic story and make it into a high budget action cartoon with cool fights and a decent soundtrack
Honestly, people in Cinemaphile industries really underestimate how much legwork a good soundtrack can do.
When's the last time you heard about people going out in droves to buy a cartoon soundtrack?
Yeah I mean folks could discern Akatsuki or Naruto fight theme or even the funny music. For western cartoon the best soundtrack identifiable is only the main theme
It's not like the west don't know how to add good or iconic music to its products either Highlander had that Queen theme and Daredevil had a Evanescense theme of all things in its movie.
You're so far gone in your irony you actually think that Evanescence song was well picked.
But at least made me remember some parts of the movie and that's more than what I can say about any of the Hulk or FF movies
bad artists, 90% of the characters suddenly gay, leftist politics and revenge fantasies instead of actual stories
>Normie walks into bookstore
>Shelves full of complete Manga sets
>Small shelf
>No new comic issues, just trade paperbacks
>Barely any of the recognisable heroes (Tony Stark, Steve Rogers)
>Decades of research needed to get into a story
>Greatest story of the most beloved protagonist/antagonist duo in all the west
>adaptation "art" was drawn on napkins
It's like night and day.
Everyone thinks that shit's for little kids.
Kids programming in the us is near nonexistant. It's all made for man children and femcels now
Femcels don't exist. I was going to say womanchildren, but that's being redundant.
>Story of a PE teacher fricking her shota student
>art is a 1:1 transfer of the manga panels
of a PE teacher fricking her shota student
It's unbelievable that one county dominates everything in comics and cartoons. No country can compete with Japan anymore.
>Manga: You get like 10-ish chapters of a big story in a sturdy paperback book with well over 100 pages for about $9-13. Can be very easily found in Walmart, Target, Barnes & Noble, and dedicated shops. Everything is very clearly labeled as to what is the main series, what's the spinoff, etc.
>Comics: For $5 you get a flimsy paper comic of about 25 pages with ads every other page, you have to keep up with monthly issues, you have to figure out which damn cover you want, you have to find a place near you that even sells them, and you'd better hope and pray the comic you pick even finishes its run.
Wow gee, I wonder why, in a time of economic hardship, one seems like a smarter investment than the other.
homie, why are you comparing tankobons to floppies?
That's being generous to comics. If you want to compare floppies to weekly/monthly anthology sales you're going to be in an even worse position
Here's your answer.
Comics are ugly and have dogshit stories. Simple as. And let's not get started on cartoons with shows what Japan considers for a 'younger' audience completely mogs all of the ""adult"" shows ( that probably costs 5x the amount to make ) the west can put out. Imagine how hard I laughed when I saw the new series "Velma" that dropped. Also the same with High Guardian Spice. Worse part is I don't think this will change for a long time as nepotism and huge companies will prevent anything decent coming out.
Yes I know this is a shitty West vs East bait thread. No, I won't stop mocking the stuff they put out.
You have to go b/a/ck
Wrong board
>どったのセンセー?
Manga is better. All the stories have a clear beginning and ending (or are still ongoing) and are usually written and drawn by one or two people, they're one continous story set in the same world with the same characters in the same art style. Occasionally there are sequel series or spin-offs, but they're always clearly marked and the reading order is easy to fnd.
With western comics you have to look for specific reboots or individual stories because most characters have decades of backstory with wildly varying quality and art styles, and even the good events and runs have crossovers to deal with. Can't count how many times I've given up on a story after it gets interrupted with "see Different Series No. 122-125 to see what happens next!".
I think more important than the easy of entry thing is that manga just have a wider spectrum of content.
If i want to read superhero stories, western comics has that in spades. If I was to read *literally anything else*, I either need to settle for a version of that which is jammed into an ongoing superhero story, or I need to dive into the dumpster bin where they hide the indie comics. They technically exist, but there are not a lot of them and frankly they don't get much support.
Meanwhile, I go over to manga and yeah there are plenty of fighting stories. I can also read weird science fiction, or fantasy adventure, or romance, or drama, or mystery, or whatever the frick Rosengartan Saga is. Its hard to name a genre that you want to read that manga doesn't provide, while its hard to find a genre beyond capes that western comics does.
>or whatever the frick Rosengartan Saga
Rosen Garten Saga, much like something like Pumpkin Night or Succubus & Hitman, is a shitpost manga.
Except unlike many shitpost manga, it is also legitimately good, largely because it isn't just constant edge and gore, and has a lot of genuinely likeable characters.
That and it has surprisingly good art considering the fricking ridiculous premise and setting.
>With western comics you have to look for specific reboots or individual stories because most characters have decades of backstory with wildly varying quality and art styles, and even the good events and runs have crossovers to deal with. Can't count how many times I've given up on a story after it gets interrupted with "see Different Series No. 122-125 to see what happens next!".
Just read creator owned
You tards never listen
Everyone else is wrong. The sale numbers include mags like Shonen Jump which has a collections of the latest singular chapters for different series (Shonen Jump eg publishes works targeted at young men/male teens). In Japan living space is way more limited than in most of Europe and Burgerland. Unless you are a collector a lot of people buy a mag, read it during commuting and then throw it away since you don't have space to keep shit at Home. It's also why in many imported prints the paper quality is bad - it's not meant to survive more than two weeks.
>The sale numbers include mags like Shonen Jump
Anon, the sales figures in the OP are for America only.
Shonen Jump the magazine doesn't exist in America, these are all volume sales.
Good. Death to comics.
People who say "it's not all capeshit" are huffing on copium. Europe used to make cool stuff but their industry is on life support right now. Only their super old long-running stuff is of any relevance when it comes to sales (which isn't really different from capeshit in principle) and there's no real industry outside of France and Italy. If you are a comic fan who doesn't just want to read capeshit, low effort webcomics or older series manga is your only real option really.
>moron who ignores creator-owned comics/comics that aren't about superheroes has to move the goalposts to a different continent (without sources, of course)
This is about sales. I didn't say anything incorrect. The best selling comics in Shartstan are all capeshit and the best selling European comics are long running stuff. The industry is growing and is more profitable than ever but it's all thanks to manga and Korean webtoons.
> t. lazy moron who can't find stuff on his own and needs to be told what media to consume
Typical.
Euro duck comics are still the best selling comics.
'ate weebs
'ate jannies
'ate OP
Simple as.
modern amerimutt media is about as puritanical as it gets. its fricking weird and hilarious you amerimutts censor every kind of sexual stuff. nobody can express any sexy stuff in mainstream media anyjmore. its actually much shitter and puritanical than some chink commie shit.
I legit liked the Constantine movie with Keanu Reeves but the comics have a totally different interpretation of the MC that I don't really like.
Star Wars comics are good in the sense that they stay very close to the movie characters though.
Overall, comics feel too isolated from the movies that usually promote them.
MODS = homosexualS
>Easier to get into than most American comics (Start at #1)
>Hardly any mid-series artist/writer change
>Cheaper (If it's a weekly series, you get like 10 chapters per volume)
>Anime adaptations serve to advertise the manga as people want to read ahead
>Actually aimed at teenagers rather than awkward adults
Even when I try to read creator-owned/indie/non-superhero stuff, it feels like there's hardly any ambition anymore. It feels like people are writing with a TV show in mind. I can't think of any ongoing comics with the ambition to creating a long-running epic like Bone, Cerebus the Aardvark, or Hellboy (though would be glad to be proven wrong)
>>I hate comic books! They're too hard to follow!!
Read something other than superhero comics from Marvel and DC then. There's tons of stuff out there to read.
>>NO!
Why?
!!1
Every single time with you homosexuals. Troon out already and have a nice day.
>half of the list is israeli propaganda
Why pretend you even know what half of these are about?
Don't think so.
Paper from those weekly manga anthologies are actually pretty good for wiping if you run out of toilet paper.
The chart the anon posted wasn't made by him, and it's supposed to be for black and white comics (though some of these have some color, were intended for color, or become color comics).
>Paper from those weekly manga anthologies are actually pretty good for wiping if you run out of toilet paper.
Which alone makes them more valuable than comics that only smear out the shit with its glossy surface.
>israelite propaganda bad
>jap propaganda good
Jap propaganda is unironically them telling you to grow up and have sex.
Then why don't you?
More than you incel
Step back, ESL-kun.
>Esl calling others Esl's
lol lmao
How do you homosexuals pass English courses?
>N-no, YOU'RE AN ESL!
God, you're pathetic. Don't respond ever again.
Yes thats exactly what you are. Imagine being so smug about being wrong. Worse part is you're a grown ass man and you needed to be fact checked on something so basic.
have a nice day if you can't get basic English right at your age there's no hope.
i'm sorry but you piss me off
Good. Stay mad.
i was apologizing butthole but i see i should have doubled down.
>Anno pauses for a moment, and gives a dark-browed stare out the window. “I don’t see any adults here in Japan,” he says, with a shrug. “The fact that you see salarymen reading manga and pornography on the trains and being unafraid, unashamed or anything, is something you wouldn’t have seen 30 years ago, with people who grew up under a different system of government. They would have been far too embarrassed to open a book of cartoons or dirty pictures on a train. But that’s what we have now in Japan. We are a country of children.”
>Are you talking about yourself anon? Says a voice in his head, here you are in a anime website posting on a comic board, do you truly believe yourself above it all?
>The sad fact is you're just as pathetic as those japs, you're deluding yourself pretending otherwise.
>Remember when you had dreams, I remember. Every day i pray you'd do something with your life. But look at you at you now.
The frick you two schizo posting about, I just like abe memes
>japs are out there in the trains molesting women so much it birthed a new rape porn genre but its the ones reading manga in public he has a issue with
Huuh based?
Wow you couldn't of made a shittier list of crap to wipe my ass with, anon.
Are you sure these are soft issue? I feel like it'll cut the hairs outta my bunghole if I wipe with these.
> Concrete
> Mort Cinder
> Cerebus
Good list. I would add:
Asterix (stop at the Great Divide), Tintin, Spirou/Gaston Lagaffe (Franquin's era), The Incal, Valérien et Laureline, The Airtight Garage, V For Vendetta and Judge Dredd.
Just started getting into polish comics. I found a good link to get started:
https://culture.pl/en/article/a-foreigners-guide-to-polish-comics
Because they turned them into pozzed marxist troonyshit
I think weebs who hate capeshit don't understand the appeal of capeshit
These are the same homosexuals who watch OPM chainsawman and My hero
power level homosexualry? bad art? bad romance? infantile commentary?
Why would I read comics? That shit is owned by israelites and made into a cash cow now for whatever is trending currently. I don't even attempt to look at third party anymore. Oh cool. Wow. The latest and greatest super hero is another rehashing of a characfer. Wait. Wait for it. S/he is BLACK AND GAY.
WOAH.
Holy shit.
Mind blown.
SO many people are like... Totally gonna escape into the comic about a homosexual hero. ;^)
I come to this board in once a blue moon to laugh at you troons and neckbeards.
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH PBBBBFFFFT HAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAH
1. You folks are sucking DC/Marvels wiener instead of reading actual good stuff (non-US comics exist)
2. Comics reprints and recolor editions all have the gotham city generic art style
I really wish it wasn't the case but European comics/graphic novels are dying too. Muttshart capeshit will survive through Hollywood, but the actual good Euro stuff is in a much worse spot.
that just means they have no market in the US, not that the actual source is dying.
>europe comics closing
FRICK.
Well, I can only hope that scanlations will start becoming active again. Europe Comics was something I've wanted to happen for over a decade, and it was so great to see when it finally happened.
>non-US comics exist
Yes, they're called manga.
>they're called manga.
I must disagree, mangas are getting more and more pozzed. 3rd World entertainment will be all that's left.
You sure proved a point by posting a drawing by a guy that's been dead for 30 years.
Why is the german version recolored?
All the re-releases are recolored. I just managed to find german version online.
>Demonslayeroutsellsentirecomicbookindustry.jpg
western comics spent the 80s-2000s only trying to appeal to the obsessive market then immediately tried to shit on them the last decade
tiddies
Good ol big anime tiddies!
>Raped her into a moeblob
I'm still mad.
Because a manga is a self contained story that has a linear reading order and the big two comic producers make stories interweaving multiple runs which swap artists and writers constantly, have crazy varying changes in quality between runs, poor continuity, and get reset every couple of years.
Also, nobody advertises indie comics, most new comics are scrapped after like 3 issues, and the American market has no demand for physical media like the japanese.
They're not as good.
Lurk more
> japs (honorary whites).
Since when are japs white?
> pic of DBZ
Litteraly japanese capeshit. There are way better mangas.
> imprving yourself
Self-inserting shonentard spotted.
> Thinks western media is exclusively american.
There's your problem.
>Since when are japs white?
Since the WWII they are honorary.
>Litteraly japanese capeshit. There are way better mangas.
DBZ is one o the coolest thing ever made.
>Self-inserting shonentard spotted.
israelite troony spotted
Because american comics are goyslop made by israelites and cryptojews to subvert and destroy western civilization and white people. It's full of ugly characters, like their creators, awful art and pozzed stories.
Manga has hot characters with giant breasts, cool fights, stories about imprving yourself and nice art. And made by japs (honorary whites).
Wrong board
>sending dbgays to Cinemaphile
They belong to Cinemaphile
LMAO manga outsell comics 1000 to 1. It's like putting Daniel Dubois in the ring with a toddler. It's not even fair.
Nah, American comics would be better represented by an old, emaciated fighter that's got his arms behind his back, handcuffed, with leg irons too, wearing an 80-pound vest, a sleep mask, ear plugs, and a shock collar that goes off every minute.
Frick the American comics industry for badly fricking over comics.
I wait for omnibuses and buy those so I can read an entire story in one sitting.
>Scientific studies
>no scientific study provided
>just some blog passing an online survey and meta analysis off as science
heh the trolls are apparently better at science too
To you manga readers: what are some worthwhile (no isekai, derivative battle shonen/SOL/comedy) manga from 2020 to now?
I liked Goodbye, Eri.
Last time I posted this exact question, jannies deleted my post, gave me a warning, but left the East vs West thread I replied to up until it hit bump limit.
Can you read japanese?
no
Thanks for the recs.
>Le Monde sans fin
This one? There is an older British comic with the same name.
Then why the frick are you asking for stuff that's being published now? There are very few translations even if you count fan and official, there are 50 year old masterpieces you can't read.
>Then why the frick are you asking for stuff that's being published now?
I want to read the recent stuff, see how it's going. I haven't kept up with the past few years of manga.
>There are very few translations even if you count fan and official
There's a shitload. Are you joking?
>50 year old masterpieces you can't read
Such as?
>I want to read the recent stuff
Learn japanese.
I asked what was the Cinemaphile equivalent of Chainsaw Man the other day and the mods banned me for "requesting outside of /r/". I was just genuinely curious if there was any Western comic that was like it. But to answer your question, I liked Bibliomania and Hirayasumi. I'm sure there is a lot more cool stuff out there that didn't receive a translation yet though. The same is true for European comics. Where the hell is the English TL of Le Monde sans fin?
>I asked what was the Cinemaphile equivalent of Chainsaw Man the other day and the mods banned me for "requesting outside of /r/"
That's because you're not the first guy to try and make a thread on Cinemaphile about chainsaw man
If you were here last year, there were multiple threads using the images from the manga from banned Cinemaphile users trying to act superior
To put it simply though, the only close comparison to it is Devil man
Anyone else?
Frick no. Absolutely not worth it, especially with stuff being translated all the time.
If you don't have any translated titles to offer, keep quiet.
I don't bother with what's translated so I'm not going to go check for a dumbass like you. As I said, you can't read even 25% of manga that's already been published and even less of currently ongoing stuff.
I already told you not to bother, but here you are replying to me. Do yourself a favor and shut the frick up. You have nothing to offer.
You have nothing to offer.
That's my line! You worthless trash.
Quiet. You don't read, so stay silent.
Stop replying to me, you worthless trash. Go read your capeshit.
Shush.
Frick off, capetard.
Silence.
Don't get uppity, capetard.
Shut your mouth, illiterate.
Go away, you turd.
Shut that yap.
You're on HIS board, filthy leech.
Cinemaphile is weeb central. Deal with it.
No. Frick off.
No. You.
Manga is cute and fun while comics are about putting your dick in places it shouldn't and how Black folk are better than you because they're stupid, violent animals.
Generally speaking it's because there's more variety, but also because the industry is so big magazines/publishers have to really stand out to get anywhere, so you end up with a lot more weird shit and a lot more stories written/drawn by "outsiders" who would never have been able to make it in the industry if they were in American (for example, Ajin was drawn and later written by a porn artist).
>want to read manga
>story has a beginning middle end
>you want to get into it, you just read based off friend recs or an anime you watched
>wider/more accessible variety
Vs.
>want to get into american comics
>well do you mean the dc version, the ultimate version, the universe 72528 version
>also less centralized ways of reading without paying
> Want to get into american comics
Why? Comics/graphic-novels are way more than just America. Mangas are comics too. South America, Africa and Europe also make them... Why limit yourself to US and Japan?
The Big 2 is finished. I say this as a reader from 1997 when I got my brother's collection of comics as a kid.
The real strength of US comics are the independents and Vertigo which still retains some level of decency despite being owned by DC. Besides that, you'll have to look to Euro comics.
For a long time, I had loathed manga because of weebs, but once I got into college, I read scanlations of Berserk, 20th Century Boys, Heroic Legend of Arslan, and Hunter x Hunter. Say what you want about the Japs, but as many other Cinemaphilemrades have mentioned, there's a clear beginning to start from, there's a variety of genres that the Big 2 rarely touch like slice-of-life or romantic comedy, and most importantly, they're mostly creator-owned and there's no DONUT STEEL retcons or revampings that cape comics do.
Because this is dragon ball all over again except it's now on comic form
My local book store has a shifting shrinking comic aisle, last time I went there it was the corner of two shelves
Meanwhile the CD aisle was converted into a manga section that takes up 15% of the store
I told my LCS guy to get on the manga bandwagon way back in 2007. 11 years later, he thanked me because without manga/anime and Japanese toy models, his store would've gone under. His US comics section is bare bones (though his TPBs is stacked) while he also included action figures, trading cards, and other stuff to pad out his store. He also became a HUGE mecha anime fanboy as well as Japanese live-action superheroes (Kamen Rider and Ultraman) because of what I recommended to him.
I know Cinemaphile gets in arms over Japanese media, but the truth is, anime and manga is selling because there's been more than 20 years of US kids growing up with anime thanks to Toonami/Adult Swim as well as high-speed Internet opening the world to them.
And because of Hollywood going full-on "Get Woke, Go Broke", more people are turning to vidya, anime, manga, and other alternate forms of entertainment that doesn't lecture them on the patriarchy and white men being the source of all evil. Who the frick wants to listen to that shit after a long day at work or from classes?
At least for Hollywood, the 2008 writer's strike is what really destroyed the creativity of studios and the writers that dared to go on strike are blacklisted, hence studios hired Deviantart-level college students who are so full of SJWism that no shit their work is preaching crap.
What bugs me is that DC and Marvel doesn't have the kind of standards it used to have pre-2000's. Nowadays ascended fanboys are the only writers that have some semblance of love for the characters and world they're in charge of. Meanwhile you have these purple-haired multi-pierced non-binary troglodytes self-insert themselves and their woke politics. No shit long-time readers are gonna be turned off.
And what baffles me even more is that companies have the gall to openly bash and mock dissatisfied fans by saying,"THIS ISN'T FOR YOU OPPRESSIVE CISHET WHITE MALES!" and then they turn around and say,"WHY AREN'T YOU BUYING OUR SHIT?!"
>At least for Hollywood, the 2008 writer's strike is what really destroyed the creativity of studios and the writers that dared to go on strike are blacklisted, hence studios hired Deviantart-level college students who are so full of SJWism that no shit their work is preaching crap.
Fricking this so much.
My dad watched that Willow trainwreck and I sat in on an episode and it legit was like watching someone's deviantart comic brought to life, complete with some of the most embarrassing writing I've ever seen.
I've seen fricking isekai anime that were better-written than most Hollywood productions nowadays, especially when it comes to anything in the fantasy genre.
Remember NBC's Heroes? The writer's strike really fricked over that show. Haven't seen Willow yet, but even one of my die-hard leftist friends hates how the series has no semblance to the fun movie.
The only isekai I ever saw was Escaflowne (which I fricking adore) and Dunbine. I've gleamed from Cinemaphile how anime is getting flooded with it, but I'm so far removed from anime fandom (the only thing I consistently read is Berserk because I loved the 1997 anime and stuck with it since 2005 when I started reading it). But I get what you mean. The Japs have their own faults, but their shortcomings are more palatable to deal with than the shit I see in US movies/TV as well as comics. Even Jap vidya doesn't quite succumb to the woke bullshit I see in US vidya.
>Haven't seen Willow yet, but even one of my die-hard leftist friends hates how the series has no semblance to the fun movie.
It's basically what would happen if Twitter made a fantasy show.
It's fricking terrible, along with every other major fantasy TV show from last year, literally all of them were godawful besides maybe House of the Dragon, which is hilarious considering it's the one a lot of people expected to be the worst after GoT S8.
>Twitter
Why do so many companies bother to listen to foaming-at-the-mouth lunatics there?
>House of the Dragon
To be fair, HBO realized Dumb and Dumber shit the bed and they want to regain their massive fandom in the early days of GOT. So they're trying to tone down some of the pozzed shit.
And this is where manga has the advantage over the Big 2. It's a stand-alone book. If I don't want to read a manga about a trans-dude, I read something else. But DC and Marvel cram this shit in established titles and it gets so tiresome that you have to move onto something else or read older issues that you missed out on which I've been doing the last 8 years.
>If I don't want to read a manga about a trans-dude, I read something else
Hopefully you aren't into vinland saga
Never read it. I just looked it up. Sounds interesting because I actually like reading about Anglo-Saxon history ever since I watched The Last Kingdom.
So apparently there's a troony according to this
. Well so long as they're only a side character without any importance to the plot, I don't give a shit. I'll read it then.
Unfortunately Vinland Saga went to shit far before the troony showed up, when it turned into a shonen with homies throwing spears at mach 2 and destroying entire buildings.
Farmland Saga was the peak of that manga.
>Farmland Saga was the peak of that manga.
Yes, and it's still shit. That manga was never good.
Filtered
Nope.
>literally all of them were godawful besides maybe House of the Dragon
They were all garbage besides HotD because every streaming service wanted to have their own Game of Thrones, but none of these Fantasy worlds, or Middle Earth for that matter, work as the next GoT. Only House of the Dragon succeeds because HotD doesn't have to funamentally change what it is to change a trend
No, they were all garbage because they were horribly-written, while HotD was the only one that WASN'T written by a college-aged deviantart reject.
What makes HOTD's decent success even more amazing is that the source material is a bunch of half-assed histories from chroniclers. There isn't even an actual novel with meaningful dialogue like GOT had with the 5 books. Fire & Blood is like taking a junior high textbook on medieval Europe and making a TV series out of a few paragraphs of a dynastic civil war.
I never watched house of Dragon but the book was so awful I couldn't even finish it so I'm not going to
For me, it's Dungeon Meshi.
Comics have trouble breaking into any of the age ranges between 12 and 45.
They basically only appeal to older people with nostalgia and young children who read whatever their parents buy them.
They especially struggle with appealing to young men, for a variety of reasons that will likely never change.
Because most good manga gets an adaptation while most good comics get no exposure to the mainstream because all the tv networks have this weird culture where you can’t get shit fine if you don’t have the right connections to the right zillionaire pedophiles.
>while most good comics get no exposure to the mainstream because all the tv networks have this weird culture where you can’t get shit fine if you don’t have the right connections to the right zillionaire pedophiles.
Hollywood is starting to collapse. It's far from being destroyed, but you can definitely tell that it's on shaky foundations and continues to crumble if this flawed system is still in place.
Because people think it's only DC and Marvel
Manga have a shit ton of weekly series, is very cheap, has clear start, and is intimately tied with anime/animation. Comics are usually monthly, expensive (4$ for 1 issue, are you a dumbass?), has weird setup, and is nowhere as connected to animation.
Of course, indie comics fix some of these problems, but it seems Americans love capeshit because marvel and dc destroy indies in sales and popularity. Manga also provides a different style and source. You’ll barely find anything close to a battle series or a fluffy cute romcom in comics, and manga has those in abundance.
American Webtoons/webcomics will eventually overtake traditional indie comics (image, Boom, etc) in popularity down the line.
Why the frick would ant you g adult or teenager find comics appealing? There’s a reason why the main readers are white men who probably have a wife and kids already
>Why the frick would ant you g adult or teenager find comics appealing? There’s a reason why the main readers are white men who probably have a wife and kids already
There's more to comics than just basic capeshit
Yea, and why would any young adult or teenager pay $4 for a 25 page comic that can be hit or miss? Where you can’t even tease it out because there no animated equivalent?
In America non-capeshit stuff is so niche that it's not even worth talking about. The only American "graphic novels" that attain commercial success nowadays is stuff aimed at women and gays.
>In America non-capeshit stuff is so niche that it's not even worth talking about.
The Walking Dead?
This. There are popular ones like Invinbcle, Walking Dead, Saga, but most of a monthly top 50 list is like 90%+ marvel and DC. Indie comics would be more popular if they had adaptions that were good (see Invincible), but good luck ever getting that to happen. Until Marvel and DC fall, which will never happen, indie comics would be in the back of everyone’s minds.
And even then, I’d bet the majority of the most popular non marvel and dc comics are cape series as well (Invincible. spawn, Vanish for example). American just love superheros
>Invincible
Was never the big seller people say it was
Chew, The Walking Dead, Saga, etc all outsold it
Invincible just had longevity and never fell below a point where floppies would be unsustainable
Honestly, at this point it's gotten so dire that even the top of the author-driven category for comics is full of Korean webtoons.
Guess I should check out wtf is Lore Olympus
Just another 'graphic novel' aimed at women. Literally everything here is for women:
Even your brethren know that capeshit is everywhere.
Fantagraphics doesn't have capeshit
Well those things are the gold mine for a lot of YA publishing companies the problem is this
they're too expensive and not so good or entertaining as your usual YA novel.
>There’s a reason why the main readers are white men who probably have a wife and kids already
White men are have the lowest marriage rates, and are majority of the virgins in the US. It's why White people are dwindling in population.
Nice try, Chang.
I have a friend who grew up with justice league cartoon, superhero vidya, but as a adult only reads manga and watches anime. For casuals who dont look heavily into media themselves, there are no new appealing fun escapism things to get into that even function as coherent stories from the west. Not even casuals can ignore it anymore, whoever caters to the geek wins, entertainment lives and dies by geeks. Always remember.
They've been complete shit for decades. DECADES.
No, they started being non-stop shit in the mid-2010s.
The industry doesn't give a shit about comics. They want money, and the way they get money is adapting comics into live-action movies.
It's not like Japan where they do popularity polls of shonen characters, and take other measures to maximize profits from print alone, as well as the inevitable anime adaptations. Basically, Japan is doing business in manga, while comics are putting all of their energy into movies. Despite this, manga is largely trash, which is still better than being all trash.
Here's your non-capeshit comics bro
Gross
Laila Starr's legit good but honestly I browse using League of Comic Geeks for non cape titles
The comic industry just isn’t made to be big. The manga is literally made to pump out as much as much as possible (weekly series) to as much people as possible (cheap prices, animating eveything). Comics will never get that cheap. They will never have weekly series be the norm.
If the comic industry wants to compete with the manga industry, they need to find something to compete with them. Regardless of quality, Does the comic industry defeat the manga industry in any of these?
>Prices. Manga are way less money
>Cartoons. Manga get more anime
>Abundance. More manga are being made.
>Speed. The most popular manga come out once a week. Most popular comics come out once a month.
>Genres. The only thing the comic industry has over manga is more superhero stories. The biggest genres in manga are fightgay shut (battle shonens, action shit that puts emphasis on the fights), cutesy stories (romcoms, romance, slice of life), wish fulfillment (harems, power fantasy, isekai, ecchi). Comic industry has no where close to as much series in those genres as the manga industry does.
Korea and China are able to compete through having most of their series be cheap/free, phone adjusted webcomic scrollers with color, while having genres that aren’t in manga -cultivation, Wuxia, etc. Comic industry just needs to find their space?
I think another difference is that for most anime it is an adaptation for something so there are multiple mediums for the same product. That just isn’t the case for comics and when it is it’s usually a movie or something people have to commit to watching rather than episodic stuff in the 22 minute range.
Anime/Manga/Light Novels/etc are made almost exclusively for the lowest common denominator: teenagers and manchildren.
That stuff will always sell better than material which tries to be more than that.
>Now let me go read the most popular comics….all caps shit! Definitely not for me and my man children friends
This, but unironically. Even the shittiest comic runs are written with much less juvenile pandering than the average piece of media out of Japan.
That's they problem. Why would teenager care about something that does not pander to teenagers?
the fact that comics appear to be synonymous with capeshit tells you all you need to know
No it’s not you piece of shit. Indie comics are popular and making sales, especially as graphic novels. It’s only you midwits who think “comics, oh you mean superheroes”
frick off with your niche bullshit. You ask any random person who doesn't eternally live on the internet what a comic is they will immediate go to spiderman, batman, and the like
>Indie comics are popular and making sales
Name 3
Spawn, Saga, Something is killing ten children
You don't even want to read anything other than capeshit, you just want to b***h and complain. Go waste someone else's time.
Why dont they make something like shonen jump that contains multiple comics and comes out monthly or whatever? I would absolutely buy a phone book eith all sorts of comics in it. I rarely buy comics because i hate how expensive they are here for how little you get.
Shonen Jump tried that in the west and it didn't work
1)english shonen jump sucked and was printed on premium paper, included barely any series and was so lagging that by the time they released they were many chapters behind
2)im not talking about manga, but comics . I dont know enough about the demos to comment further on this point, but i fail to see how it wouldnt work. If comic sales are so ridiculously low for super heros as listed here, why not try combining some. Heck wasnt that the original premise of stuff like action comics in the first place?
I want to look into this. I mist admit i read idw more than anything.
Superheroes comics , at least marvel and dc, are doing fine. It’s indie comics like Image, Boom, IDW who need the help
>It’s indie comics like Image, Boom, IDW who need the help
The word indie has lost all meaning
>are doing fine
No, they're not. The rest of the industry is drowning, and they're drowning slightly less. There are comics with nationwide distribution, at the absolute height of IP cultural awareness, that can't even sell 50k copies.
Image is literally doing that right now
Image is trying their best tbh. Even though they’re still nowhere close to DC or Marvel. Why isn’t there a Saga animated/live action series? Outside of Spawn, which is more capeshit, that’s their most popular series. Although adaptions are a shitshow and aren’t guaranteed success, look at Deadly Class. But it’s worth the effort
>Why isn’t there a Saga animated/live action series?
BKV doesn't want an adaptation
Image central is purely hands-off which is their biggest double edged sword
Whats the product name i need to buy to get the image comics?
It's literally just called Image!
It's a limited anthology series made to celebrate their 30th anniversary last year
https://imagecomics.com/comics/series/image
Cool, might see if i can get one
Keep in mind, the stories aren't full length floppies
There's progression and over arching stuff but I just felt like you should know
The thing I hate most about the current comic industry is that it feels like a lot of indies are being made specifically to be a TV adaption shit, since they know the only real route for popularity for 98% of indie comics is a live action adaption.
Since we're having this thread again, anyone want to talk about how Dark Crisis revealed that the Great Darkness is responsible for EVERY event in DC now?
The Anti-Monitor, Gog, Extant, the Anti-Life Entity, the Hyperfly, Superboy-Prime, the Upside-Down Man, Ares, Nekron, Doomsday, Eclipso, Mandrakk, Neron, Dr. Manhattan, the Empty Hand, and Barbatos, all of them were apparently working for the Great Darkness. How much stupider is this shit going to get? How long until the Great Darkness is revealed as some smaller part of an EVEN MORE evil and EVEN MORE powerful villain that will make sure NOTHING WILL BE THE SAME until another writer decides to bring back the previous status quo?
Maybe this kind of dumb and predictable shit is why comics are going under?
>Dark Crisis
You're a fricking moron if you're following this shit in any way, shape, or form.
Don't forget that it was apparently supposed to be called "Anti-Crisis" at first. What an original name.
You people live to say comic are suffering, but how would you change it? Huh? What would you do to the comic industry? Marvel and DC hold the wide majority of the market share anyways, and seem to care more about movies.
The US comic scene has been a long term shitshow as a result of decades of mismanagement by several power and money hungry companies like Marvel, DC, Diamond, and Archie. All of these businesses had a hand in shitting up the country's output in the medium via moronic means, like the CCA and the 90's crash. This leads to stuff like:
>Why is the primary format still floppies?
>Why are these floppies treated as collector's items even after the speculator crash?
>Why are you all still stuck in LCSs?
>Where is the genre diversity?
>Where is the actual demographic diversity? (and no, fricking over an IP for brownie points doesn't count.)
Japan really didn't have to try to take over the American market (in fact, more manga get official translations in French than in English) and yet they did so anyway because everyone in the business here is fricking moronic.
To be fair, I think the primary reason manga hasn’t taken over here is because of the sheer amount of animated adaptions. The adaptions are also usually good as “advertisements” so to speak, whereas the marvel and dc movies feel like their own thing, and less like a partner to the comics. And outside of marvel and dc, there’s only a handful of adaptions. Some suck, but the decent ones always help the comics do better.
Manga has* taken over
If I had a nickel every time I saw people act as if Invincible was made yesterday despite it starting in 2003 or that it's the outlier for having a beginning middle and end, I'd be Scrooge McDuck
How have we not seen more Invincible’s (animated adaptions) pop up yet? Invincible was literally everywhere when it was running. You’re telling me that wasn’t enough for other comics to get their chance?
Anon, it's been barely over a year and a half since Invincible's show.
Animation doesn't just pop up overnight.
In 2020, Remender said a writing team was working on getting an animated adaptation for one his works made
Judging by what he's been saying on his Instagram lately, it MIGHT be Black Science
I don't think I've seen an American comic property not named Watchmen get noticed by the public before an adaptation came out.
It helps but the thing is that there are manga series that became best sellers in the US before their anime came out like Chainsaw Man, Spy X Family, and Komi-san.
This. Japan threat anime and action movies as ads. They don't want to earn money on it. It's just an ad, so people buy more books. In West, books (both comic and novels) are adapted, so movie earns money.
That's why anime series rarely show the ending of manga. The ending is in books. They want to buy them. Or at least install comic app to read new chapter.
Based take. Manga doesn't win because it's better. Manga wins by default because there is NO competition. Where are American comedy comic books? Where are love stories? Where is mystery and horror? Where is coming-of-age? Where are erotic thrillers? Where is fantasy? Seriously, they are missing fantasy! Where are dragons?
US comic industry isn't even competing with manga.
>Where are American comedy comic books?
I Hate Fairyland
>love stories?
Love Everlasting
>mystery and horror?
Stray Dogs, Little Monsters, Killadelphia, SIKTC, Bone Orchard
>fantasy
Monstress, Seven to Eternity, Birthright
>Coming-of-Age
Whatever Scholastic is publishing
Heh: the fact that anons have never heard of these means marvel and Dc are doing their job well. Dominating the comic industry . All hail our superhero saviors!
Bruh, we have Gert threads from time to time
I Hate Fairyland is one of the more well known modern Image titles period even on this shithole of a board
SIKTC is also well known when you look past said shithole of a board, it actually sells well
Saga levels even
Check every top 50 monthly list and 45 will be marvel and DC, usually the rest will be spawn, Saga, and SIKTC. Suck it, no one cares about indies. Marvel and DC push out better quality shit and they’re rewarded by being way more popular
popularity != quality
that's like saying Big Mouth is better than Primal
Not, but it matches for comics. Most indie comics suck compared to cape comics
There are more great indie comics than there are great cape comics.
I think more indie comics should be like Pink Lemonade right now, it looks like a cape comic but it's really not. It has the eye catching costumes but it's really just lovable weird outcasts trying to get by and the conflicts are exaggerated relatable conflicts. Stuff like that takes the trappings and puts it in an unexpected context, which I think should be necessary for things to evolve
They've been doing that and it doesn't work, at least not for long.
Easily more great indies than great capes.
It all depends on the approach and how appealing it comes across, and in that case it's very appealing. Short-form story too as I think the series is a mini, ending soon and all that. There's something to be said for good contained accessible comics that do what they set out to quickly and take a bow
No there aren’t, that’s an insane take lol.
Because the majority of newbies like you either are capeshitters, licenseshitter, or tourists who don't actually want to get into comics but want to pretend to still know shit about it regardless
Or…or..or maybe they’re not as popular as capeshit because they’re worse?
Literally almost all trash.
Which ones did you read?
He only reads sophisticated trash like HunterxHunter and Jojo.
Not that anon, i dont agree with him except on the scholastic bit
But Scalped
Kek. You are right. They do exist. In manga, big publishers have big genre diversity. So I only looked at few biggest company to see if it exists.
I guess the capeshit destroyed the reputation of us comic industry.
>So I only looked at few biggest company to see if it exists.
Dude, even DC have horror comics separate from their capeshit stuff
I searched for DC horror comic and it gives me batman but with more edgy art style.
Nice House on the Lake
Soul Plumber
It's just DC nowadays problem. Their genres is divided to:
Batman books
Team books which Batman take all the spotlights while other leaguers become jobbers. Same could be applied to batfams
Finally other heroes or characters book
Capeshit saved the comic industry fool. Without cape shit the comic industry would be dead right now. Remove marvel and dc output by just 50% itd still end up dead
>comedy
Six Sidekicks of Trigger Keaton was pretty good
>the most widely recognized and commercialy successful US comics outside of capeshit are probably Scott Pilgrim and The Walking Dead
>both printed in book format in black-and-white
You are probably right.
>Why is the primary format still floppies?
Because it is the cheapest option for periodicals, and that's the real problem - the addiction to monthly sales. Retailers, publishers, and the distributor need it. Diamond does not operate anything like a book distributor. They don have the space to store books long term.
If all we did were traditional books, we wouldn't even be printing in Canada. We'd be printing in Asia, where it's cheaper and the quality is higher.
>Why are these floppies treated as collector's items even after the speculator crash?
Stupidity.
>Why are you all still stuck in LCSs?
Because comic publishers need the money to come in almost immediately and predictably. That's the primary purpose of the non-returnable direct market. Publishers in the book trade do not get paid when the books are shipped. They only get paid when the books actually sell at the retail level.
>Where is the genre diversity?
Because of the non-returnable nature of the direct market, retailers are risk averse to ordering and allowing non-cape books to sit on a shelf and be discovered. Publishers in turn are not incentivized to release comics that aren't superheroes, because retailers don't order them. This creates a vicious circle of disinterest.
>Where is the actual demographic diversity?
The lack of demographic diversity is part of the larger problem, that comics aren't attracting new readers at all. This is a dying hobby, in that the readers are literally dying.
Where manga has comics beat is in attracting new, young readers who will continue to read because there are mature manga for them, and bring their own kids into the hobby because there are kids manga for them.
If you haven't picked up a theme yet, the comics industry at every level thinks in the short term. Some of it is stupidity, but it's also because comics live a paycheck-to-paycheck existence, which makes change difficult. The only way out is to have started independent book divisions 20 years ago.
Nice, a comment From a comic fan that isn’t being defensive
I hate comics. I just worked in publishing.
Then why do you go to this board?
I have a love/hate relationship with cartoons. It's complicated.
I've tried to buy floppies before. Fricking awful. Ads in the beginning, end, and fricking MIDDLE of one god damn floppy. As in I paid for three different pages of ads to support a single monthly series.
Yea that’s a big problem. Do they really expect a notable audience to go visit a LCS? And how much people do you expect to pay 3-4$ for one series?
Because it's relying too much on reboots and old series. For fricks sake, Spiderman is from 60s! Where am I even supposed to start reading it? In case of manga, i just pick up vol 1. I read chapter 1 of new IP to decide if I like it and there are new series every month. They introduce new characters and worlds and get axed when they don't perform anymore. There are different genres from superhero, fantasy to slice of life and love stories.
All American comic is just gay old men in leather pants. For fricks sake, it got mogged in sales by a superhero manga series that is inspired by American comic! You know why? Because it was new series with new characters. That's the only reason. Nobody want to read 50 years worth of comic books to catch up.
Euro comic is much better in that regard. Where do you start Asterix? At the volume 1!
>hurr start from manga number 1
>Is that volume one of Naruto, naruto shippuden, boruto, Naruto: The Seventh Hokage and the Scarlet Spring, Naruto: The Path Lit by the Full Moon, Naruto: Sasuke's Story - The Uchiha and the Heavenly Stardust, Naruto: Konoha's Story—The Steam Ninja Scrolls: The Manga, Rock Lee's Springtime of Youth Full-Power Ninja Chronicles, Naruto: Chibi Sasuke's Sharingan Legend, or one of the 32 naruto novels?
>Sh-shut up!
>Naruto Shippuden as manga
>Dumb enough to not understan the concept of spin-off
Anon please.
There's only one Naruto manga and if you wanna read that garbage then you're a moron.
Do American comics have the equivalent of battle manga? I’ve read comics with fights but the fights are either glossed over, extrmely short, or lack any dynamics/look stiff.
Comics are the worst medium possible for action.
>Comics are the worst medium possible for action.
Then why 99% of American comic is action?
Action genre appeals to the lowest common denominator.
What appeals to your high intellect?
High brow stuff.
No they're not. You say this because the only comics you read are ones with artists who have no idea how to draw action.
So can anyone please recommend
American comics for a battle manga fan? I’ve read Luther Strode, Lazarus, and Invinicble
Prison Pit
If you really need explained after all these years of whining, than it doesn't matter.
I think it is too late. Many of the arguments here were being said over a decade ago, almost two, and nothing has changed.
The only Western comics that will see success are those that will follow the Japanese/Korean models like Lore Olympus.
Most manga are auteur projects yet get proper animated adaptations easily. Meanwhile to get an adaptation in the West indie comics need to be a fricking smash hit. Basically the door to manga is wide open through anime while western animation languishes doing whatever the hell Bob's Burgers is with only the rare serious project like Pantheon, Invincible, or Onyx Equinox breaking through, to the point that they stand out from the crowd by simple virtue of not being a two dollar sitcom.
I think we're really at a dire point in entertainment because of how few 'riskier' projects are greenlit ever anymore unless they are indeed a fricking smash hit or have a celeb attached. There's no middle ground for weird cool indie projects to get thrown some spotlight with mid-budget adaptations that have room to become bigger hits. Cool indie projects don't need to be adapted of course, and it shouldn't be the bar for "success", but it is a nice way to get more attention/money/maybe even more readership lol
No sexy women in Amerimutt comics
Didn't he kill gwen stacy?
Yes, he also wrote Power Girl
im not surprised. Its always double standards and hypocrisy with these people.
Manga just tends to have more going on.
Especially when it comes to things that would be appealing to young adults.
There's shit in officially-published manga that you would never in a million years see in a published American comic, even an indie one.
Because comics are poorly written trash that will constantly shit the bed and reset themselves.
What have you read?