Why is it that the greatest, most iconic Batman stories feature Batman as a solo act in a gritty environment with semi-grounded characters and all of his mainstream, monthly comics have hip Disneying around the world with his band of merry crusaders? Shouldn't there be more of an effort to make Batman more like he is in Miller's work, the Nolan movies, etc.?
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We’ll you’re comparing varying eras. DC is always throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. They spent the whole nineties on stuff like Legends Of The Dark Knight
The current status quo of Batman is 50-75% based on the Grant Morrison run, which was fairly successful and popular among comic fans. The movies are still into solo loner Batman. Snyder and Reeves were both very Miller/Nolan influenced.
Because that's the closet you can to rape
>Why is it that the greatest, most iconic Batman stories feature Batman as a solo act in a gritty environment with semi-grounded characters
Name one, seriously. Only thing I can think of like that is Year One and it's not really grounded at all. Characters are archetypes. Also you're everything wrong with modern Batman storytelling, enjoy your PatBat bullshit
>More like he is in Miller's work
you mean where instead of 1 robin he has an entire militia of kids working for him?
The one where in the sequel he puts his shitty relationship with Superman to bed and saves the world?
>the Nolan movies
They were great action-adventure movies, that's why the worked. They had a true sense of spectacle despite an inferior aesthetic and score. Catwoman is still his sidekick in Rises tho.
Killing Joke, A Serious House, Long Halloween, TDKR
>but muh girl Robin
Doesn't cancel out the overall grittiness.
>Killing Joke
okay, touch overrated tho
> A Serious House,
not gritty, nowhere close to being even "semi-grounded"
>Long Halloween,
not gritty, not realistic, sets up Batman with Robin in the sequel
> TDKR
Only gritty for the first issue, Miller progresses more into like a fugue state as he goes along and the resulting Batopera is nowhere close to realism.
All of these stories incorporate surrealism and dream logic, Batman is almost never alone in them and his personality is always that of a rehabilitative superhero trying to save society.
>30 second comment = work
this is why we're in a recession
>not gritty, nowhere close to being even "semi-grounded"
It is both of those things. Just because it's surreal doesn't mean it's not grimdark and down-to-earth in many ways.
You clearly don't know your own vocabulary so I'll drop a "I accept your concession" and leave you be.
>Lex Luthor, the greatest mind of his era
in his dreams. Lex Luthor thinks he's the smartest man on the planet but he really isn't. Also no shit Batman knows how to defeat his friends who know his weaknesses and vice versa. Lex Luthor isn't sitting there in the watchtower watching Wonder Woman over exert herself or watching Martian Manhunter avert himself from Firestorm everytime they have a cookout
You're right, Lex Luthor is an overstated mid-wit, compared to Professor Batgod, who despite spending every single night of his life corralling his villains back to their cells, has the time to do a detailed examination of the abilities and weaknesses of superheroes that not even the "geniuses" who've fought them constantly can hope to match.
>it's a power level gay who doesn't like Batman behaving like he did for the first 30 years of his existence episode
There's a reason he was an honorary member of the JSA and an formational one of the JLA, anon.
>There's a reason he was an honorary member of the JSA and an formational one of the JLA, anon.
Yes, he's a character in a comic company that's literally named after him.
It's because he's by design supposed to be the most capable man on the planet. Master of nothing, adept at everything. A king of all trades
Your fascination with an incompetent, gimpy Batman is a post-modernist deconstruction that only began formulating in the mid 80s.
>Master of nothing
Okay, I can't even take you seriously anymore.
I was never taking you seriously kek. It's true though. He's a great martial artist but he gets BTFO by Lady Shiva and the like. He's a great inventor and business man but Luthor outshines him. He's a great physicist, built the JLA teleporter, but obviously Atom is the resident super-scientist. He's a decent combat surgeon, but he's no Doc Midnite.
What sets him apart is his multitude of skills which come together to create a superhero who is almost as elemental as Superman in terms of threat solutions.
>It's true though. He's a great martial artist but he gets BTFO by Lady Shiva and the like.
Yes, and Superman occasionally runs into "guy who is stronger" for story purposes, until he SUPERMANS HARDER THAN EVAR BEFORE.
That doesn't make Superman "kinda strong".
And there's nobody Batman hasn't beat at LEAST once in hth combat, including the vastly superhuman Aquaman, the preposterously skilled Karate Kid, and all the rogues you'd care to mention, enhanced or not.
No shit, the superhero loses, recovers, improves, defeats the bad guy. Basic hero storytelling from Star Wars to the Old Testament. As far as Aquaman is concerned, he was only "vastly superhuman" underwater until the New 52 gave him an upgrade.
His superpower, for one, he also mastered interdimensional travel.
>His superpower, for one
Any moron with a garage can give himself a magical "science" superpower in the DC universe.
ok moron
Seriously. Half of Flash's rogues have abilities that defy Newtonian Physics entirely (like Atom's) and the basis for them is "made it in his garage" or "stole it from a lab".
And The Atom's powers aren't what I asked, I asked what his super-science has contributed to the JLA. Batman has given them space and lunar bases, orbital vehicles, teleporters and all sorts of super-science nonsense. He's completely marginalized any other genius on the JLA "because Batman".
Probably has something to do with the fact that Batman is in 90% of JLA stories while Atom is in like 7%.
YES, because Batman makes all other smart/detective/science guys largely irrelevant (and he's far more popular).
It ends up being 6 people with phenomenal magical wonder powers trying to keep up with Batman's awesomeness. No vigilante could possibly measure up.
This is why it's embarrassing to have characters like Martian Manhunter on the team WITH Batman, as they overlap. Jonn has been a master detective (with fricking telepathy and shapeshifting) for decades, yet put him in a book with Batman and he end's up being Watson to Batman's Holmes, taking direction and strategy.
Why are you complaining about 60 year old editorial decisions?
Why else does this board exist?
Thank you!
>YES, because Batman makes all other smart/detective/science guys largely irrelevant (and he's far more popular).
Same way Superman makes all the super strength guys irrelevant.
Sure, but Wonder Woman can compel the truth, MM can read minds and shape-shift, Aquaman....could talk to fish...
The point is if a thousand Apokalyptian murder hornets pile out of a Boom Tube, they can all hold their part of the line. The JLA needs to contantly create some compelling reason for Batman to be hanging out (besides sales), thus Batman absorbs roles like science and detective and strategist that other heroes have in spades, but are now poor at so Batman can do it better.
Well technically they all get compelling reasons for why they're hanging out because the New Gods grunts were shown to overpower even Superman early on but nowadays Superman just beats the living shit out of Darkseid every time he sees him. But going by what was established, lightweights like Aquaman wouldn't be holding their own, Wonder Woman either until she was retconned to be just as strong as Superman.
You accept garbage gimmicks like "it's okay for another flying brick to be on the team because she can make people tell the truth, as if you couldn't get the truth out of them by intimidation or BY USING THE TELEPATH YOU JUST MENTIONED
But having the richest guy on earth on the team is... just... not fair, you guise!
Bruce's wealth is irrelevant, Superman or Aquaman have UNLIMITED access to wealth, and Superman, Aquaman and Wonder Woman all have access to super-technology.
They didn't though. I guess they do now, maybe.
>They didn't though.
Superman could make diamond since forever. He can always plunder space.
Aquaman has ALWAYS had access to the sea's treasures, hence his Black Manta issues.
>The Wayne Foundation commences an experiment in pressurization with the intent of producing the world's largest surplus of diamonds a thousand years from now
>The Wayne Foundation, Space Division™ commences an interplanetary expedition to the local asteroid belt, where the countless rocks' many minerals and elements will be mined
>The Wayne Foundation commences a deep sea mining expedition
Yes, but all of these operations cost Bruce billions TO DO. Superman does this shit in between shaving and driving to work.
So in other words, Batman is actually the underdog on the Justice League, thank you.
And the point isn't "Bruce can't emulate JLAer's abilities", he can administer a Truth Serum and disguise himself like Manhunter.
The question is WHY they need Bruce to hang out and have the ability to sorta-emulate some of their abilities, when he's just this fragile human guy who can die in a car crash.
He offers nothing they don't already have in spades.
I get I'm talking to a manchild here but maybe read some Greco-Roman epic poetry and you'll have a better idea of why Batman dwells in the realm of the gods.
Except they didn't. They didn't come up n stories. Oh Superman has access to all this tech but then you read the stories and he doesn't use any tech, he sometimes uses an anti kryptonite suit and you're reminded on page by the fact that Batman gave it to him in that same issue.
It's funny that you're bothered by Batman being good at multiple things but when Superman is ackchyually just as smart and and he has unlimited wealth and he's just as fast as Flash and he can actually just read every book on earth in 5 minutes and he'll be the greatest inventor. Hypocrite.
>Except they didn't. They didn't come up n stories.
WITH BATMAN.
They stop doing this shit when Batman is around, because it casts shade on Batman's "ebin usefulness".
Which was my point.
They all abruptly stop being resourceful, intelligent and capable and just turn into Strong Idiots the moment Batman enters the story!
No, that shit doesn't come up in their own ongoings either. Maybe once every 100 issues.
>No, that shit doesn't come up in their own ongoings either.
It comes up every time they face a situation where they NEED these things. Because normally Superman doesn't need wealth, his or Bruce's. Nor does Aquaman. Or Diana.
THEY DO NOT NEED THE SHIT THAT BATMAN HAS. The writer has to contrive a plot element where Batman is needed, and ignore the fact that 2-3 other Leaguers could easily (even more easily usually) fulfill that.
>It comes up every time they face a situation where they NEED these things
Yeah, deux ex machina every 100 or so cissues, but they're conveniently not used 99% of the time even though they need them.
The only time Superman is hard up for cash is when he's Super-Larping as Joe Normal guy for his own personal amusement. He pretends to have a job for raisins and to hit on reporter girls.
He does NOT need a satellite, he does not need a rocket ship, he does not need a teleporter. Who needs all these crutches? BATMAN.
This is what always happens. The Batman should be dark and gritty camp is always a larp for the real intended purpose of making Superman seem so much better.
A punch from Batman has every bit as much significance as a punch from Superman because both are powered by fiction.
Batman should be full-time herding the cats that are his city's oversupply of super-crazies, who are all protected (by Batman) from having anything really bad happen to them, like they are fricking Panda Bears or something.
That's what Batman needs to be doing.
If Darkseid or some aliens have some whack superscience plot going on, the JLA should be happy to have The Atom or any of their other super-science pals deal with that, not the guy who's hard pressed to match wits with the old D.A. crazy-man.
heh, nothing personal kid.
Also Superman's worst enemy is a frickin business man kek. He's at his wits end with Intergang and the like. Wonder Woman's always getting tied up, Flash gets owned by Captain Cold, they all get defeated by humans all the time.
Superman's most ANNOYING villain is an obsessed billionaire/genius. His worst enemies are his own distant relatives and the various planet/dimension conquering beings that keep trying to kick his ass as Prime Defender of Earth.
If Luthor truly bothered Superman he's "accidentally" thumb flick him into the Sun.
Oh wow. This dude is really gonna pretend Luthor isn't Superman's greatest villain just to continue his lonely crusade against the popularity of Batman. Yikes, not a good look, lil buddy.
The asshat I'm arguing against LED OUT with "Luthor isn't really that smart, Batman is all that."
If you argue with a bat-homosexual long enough, you can get them completely turned around.
Here's where this guy started marginalizing Luthor.
Seems like Batman's living in your head rent free, lil guy.
Seems like you just contribute shit-posts, small-wit.
>Seems like you just contribute shit-posts
The pot calling the kettle black
I'm having (an admittedly autistic) argument over Batman's role in the JLA. That's the sort of place we are in. You are just popping in to hurl randumb insults for whatever reason.
Don't expect more (You)s.
You are welcome to join the conversation in some intelligent fashion, btw. Or you can just piss off.
You've conveniently ignored every argument just so you can mindlessly rant. Intelligent conversation would be wasted on an unintelligent creature such as yourself.
power level gays crack me up
More like the Flash has been power crept into oblivion, same as Post-Crisis Wonder Woman and Aquaman.
The Justice League prior to 1987 were all glass cannons and Superman + Martian Manhunter.
>Flash gets owned by Captain Cold
Captain Cold's "cold gun" has been power-crept into a Reality Warp Cannon with a frost special effect, no shit. It has molecular motion slowing dampner shield protection at this point.
>for his own personal amusement
Hello, Quentin.
And Batman was super genius, gajiillionaire, expert fighter since forever.
I don't get what your argument is. Batman was the JLA's original super-science guy, he was put on that team to be the smart, rich dude.
Does Superman marginalize other flying bricks? Does Wonder Woman marginalize other bicycles? Batman is the JLA's foundational super-scientist bro of course he's going to get more airplay
Both Superman and Jonn were super-smart in that era, both Flash and M.M. were detectives at that point.
Batman was a founding member of the JLA because the JLA were all the "main" characters DC wanted to promote for a super-sales book, the opposite of the Avengers, who were the B-list they figured would struggle to carry a solo.
Batman is on JLA because he as popular. He was not their "super-science" guy. Wonder Woman had access to advance Amazonian technology, Superman had a fortress full of shit beyond Batman's imagination. GL has the most advanced SCIENCE weapon in the Universe that could do practically ANYTHING back then. Even Arthur's Atlantis could at least match olde Batman could do with SCIENCE!.
thanks for proving my point.
How could Battech be treated as equal to the Atlantean armaments, Amazonian R&D, Lantern Corps. skunkworks, Kryptonian artifacts, etc. unless Batman was on some level super-smart, even beyond his peers?
You're right, Batman is popular, more popular than your pet character!
Just remember when you're crying in your sleep over Blue Beetle getting merked or whatever that there's only ever been one other Superhero who can next to Superman's broad shoulders.
Batman's key ability is to make everyone in the room with him drop 40 IQ points (minimum) who isn't a Batman rogue.
His position on the JLA is contrived, because his stated mission as a hero isn't compatible with theirs, his disposition doesn't fit "team council meetings" and his technical know how is the equivalent of a cobbler to the classic Amazons, Atlanteans or Kryptonians.
Batman is only MADE useful to the JLA for sales purposes, and always to the detriment of the other heroes normal abilities and aptitudes.
For all your impotent, unnihilistic ramblings, three things remain factual.
Batman is an OG leaguer, he's a necessary leaguer, and even Denny O'Neill wound up capitulating to the idea of Batman as a leaguer.
Good day, b***h boiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeee
>unnihilistic
nihilistic
damn you chrome autocorrect!
>He's a great physicist, built the JLA teleporter, but obviously Atom is the resident super-scientist.
Really, what has Atom built for them that even measures up against a Teleporter?
You put all this work into this stupid snarky comment and all I have to say to it is “op said semi-grounded”
Fricking morons. The reason why is simple: legends of the dark knight is the greatest ongoing ever, but was specifically made to be inserted retroactively into the canon with most stories being a year 1,2 or 3 thing so they didn't contradict new stuff. Legends is the greatest book batman ever had and casual should stop naming much year one and long Halloween as the only classic books.
We get it, you're a casual who doesn't want to think of continuity so you only read one off stories. Come back once you've read anything other than LOTDK.
Because normies are moronic and can't into capes.
>Why is it that the greatest, most iconic Batman stories feature Batman as a solo act in a gritty environment
Because Batman doesn't add much of anything to a group of people with Miracle Powers, unless he's wanked to Hell and back in a ridiculous fashion.
How little you know about Batman or DC in general.
>Superman in his own comic
*flies to medical library, memorizes the entire library in a minute, performs miraculous surgery
>Superman in a Batman team-up
"Dahhrrr I wonder what we should do Batman! You are so wise and canny! Please tell me our strategy to beat this guy (I have beaten 6 times before).
Or my personal favorite:
"Hah, you are helpless now Green Lantern, I have painted everything yellow! Now my squire will kick you in the junk! How unfortunate for you that none of your villains have tried variations on this for 60 years of comics, and that you have no strategies whatsoever to defeat this most obvious of ploys! Ha ha!
>"Hah, you are helpless now Green Lantern, I have painted everything yellow! Now my squire will kick you in the junk! How unfortunate for you that none of your villains have tried variations on this for 60 years of comics, and that you have no strategies whatsoever to defeat this most obvious of ploys! Ha ha
It happened a few times and yes in fact Hal never came up with any strategy to avoid it.
The obvious answer is: create a giant fan, blow them both out a wall, then pound the living shit out of them with a light pole.
Hal once got taken out by a toy airplane and a giant oxygen atom.
And Batman once got staggered by a stand-up comedian with a two-by-four. Atop a zillion other indignities. I will grant you he doesn't hit his head randomly as often as Hal.
Every superhero gets sent to pound town by him.
I can show you a comic where he chloroforms Wonder Woman
Joker is the character that Batman wanks to. Of Course he humbles even the Spectre.
>Batman in his own comic
I've sussed out your plan Ra's! Your attempt to reduce the global population is foiled!
>Batman in Justice League comic
Oh shit guys Ra's al Ghul stole my plans to defeat you all! What do I do? AHHHHHHHH
You can do this shit with any character ever. Teamups require nuance in the writing which you don't have. You'd fricking hate the Gardner Fox originals or oldschool World's Finest comics kek.
>Oh shit guys Ra's al Ghul stole my plans to defeat you all!
Yes, he stole Batman's plans TO DEFEAT YOU ALL with his normal human resources. Frick Lex Luthor, the greatest mind of his era, and his mono-focus on defeating Superman (or Sivana, or any other genius).
Bruce Wayne sat in his easy chair in his robe and house slippers and devised perfect plans to defeat every single superhero on Earth INCLUDING Superman, because Batman!
Or even Ras himself, who is supposed to be an immortal mastermind. And is reduced to copying Bruce's homework.
True
False.
The most iconic comics are often self contained stories that may not even be in continuity. Usually these stories don't have time to develop other characters. If you have an ongoing series as long as Batman, you are bound to end up with a ton of supporting characters.
I'm so sick of Batman's supporting cast and villains being Fortnite rejects
Will Detective and Batman titles acknowledge Bruce/Selina marriage in Bat/Cat #12 (any time soon)??
The greatest Batman stories are about him learning not to be alone, though.
Dark Victory, Alan Grant's run, No Man's Land, Rucka's run, Infinite Crisis, Morrison's run...
>The greatest Batman stories
>Rucka's run, Infinite Crisis
lol
Yes.
>Batman has no reason to be a Leaguer on the grounds of not having the necessary intellect, money, or technology
If Clark needs space-station money he has almost unlimited means to get it, he can make some 100 carat diamonds, grab a few asteroids, or even step on Arthur's toes and plunder sunken treasure.
Arthur can plunder sunken surface-man treasure at will.
Batman has the HARDEST access to space-station money of the 3, he has to make that money vanish off Wayne-Corp's books somehow.
Cool headcanon, but that's not what actually happens in the stories now is it?
Because Robin's been around since 1940, Batgirl since '61, etc, etc. Batman has a supporting cast and if you're not down with that I'm sorry to say you're not actually down with Batman op
Batmans most iconic stories are NOT like Nolan, Miller. AT ALL.
Theyre gothic outlandish detective stories, closer to Burton and Schumacher. Your pic proves it. Trying to make Batman realistic is exactly whats made Batman just iron man with a shit ton of characters in his books that serve no purpose.
Because characters evolve overtime. batman is lucky enough to have so many fricking books you won't go too long without a solo Batman story if you need that.
Any long running character will diverge from their earliest adventures to make people who follow them feel like they see the character and his world grow. Tarzan didn't stay in the jungle, Dick Tracy got a whole family and grandkids, despite that they'll still adapt their earliest adventures or get reboots. Its the nature of long running characters. The monthlies and day-to-day books are meant to grow the character.
I like Batman. I like solo Batman. I also like Batgod in the JL dabbin on the superBlack folk circus freaks and their fans.
Sure maybe Atom can do it too, but if you need 100 of something who gives a shit if the atom can offer 105? You just need 100 and the Batman provides 100 and good sales.
>Disneying
You really must be a brain-dead moron if you think The Big Bad Mouse was the one that fricked comics out of that good "solo hero doing their solo hero shit on their own". No zoomer, comics fricked comics on that one way before the mouse.