It has great music, solid mechanical designs and animation... how come it has a terrible rep among Macross fans?
I thought the story held up well, even if it boils down to being extremely horny
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> Another Macross II thread starting with a whiny question about why it's "hated", even though it's mostly forgotten or treated as mediocre when it is remembered rather than actively disliked
For the eleventh time, Macross II is not hated. At worse, people feel indifferent about it, since it mostly feels like rehash of SDF/DYRL, despite having really cool original ideas and designs.
If you really want to see something hated, see all the SDF/DYRL purist and Delta.
>Why is this so hated?
It's not.
>it has a terrible rep among Macross fans?
It doesn't.
Oh boy, it's the why is * so underrated/hated/obscure thread guy.
It's like the youtube algorithm trained an entire new generation of vapid shitposters.
it did. most gays can't think without a YouTuber vid doing it for them
Just saw this a month ago. It blew it's wad on ep.5 and the finale was very anti climactic. Oh and the music sucked, the best song was saved for the credits.
You didn't even watch it. That sounds like some opinion you saw elsewhere and are just parroting it.
>It has great music, solid mechanical designs and animation... how come it has a terrible rep among Macross fans?
Funny you mention this, since it was edited into a single film and given a limited release in American theaters. And they trashed it so it's not just macross fans.
>But it's not like Disney
Disney's animation melts a ton and is full of extraneous motion that just looks awkward. Japan being too poor to do everything on 1s ans 2s and having to learn how to time motions properly instead was a blessing. And the drawings in MII are significantly more complicated than the simplistic animation friendly Disney drawings, especially with all the shading. Lame review.
disney movie animation is absolutely not "simplistic"
Yeah, the designs are simplistic, the animation is complicated.
>And the drawings in MII are significantly more complicated than the simplistic animation friendly Disney drawings
Is what I said. The actual drawings themselves are simpler than OVA anime drawings - but they use way more of them and have the characters engage in way more motion than in OVA anime. The reviewer said that the MII characters have "featureless faceless" in comparison to Disney, which isn't true at all and what I was responding to there.
That's just funny because even when the production values drop M2 is like, peak Mikimoto character designs
Anime criticism is still awful most of the time - but I guess progress has been made since then.
>simpler than OVA anime drawings
There's not an "OVA standard", it can vary pretty wildly in terms of quality and detail.
While that's definitely true, the OVA market was hyper diversified, especially after several years in, there is a certain look that OVAs have come to be associated with in western anime circles due to what was generally getting licensed in the early 90s. I would say these were also the ones directly targeted at getting otaku to buy them in Japan, like MII, as opposed to something like that series of low effort one shot shoujo manga adaptations madhouse did in 93, which were probably just meant to be cheap rentals. I take the former as being the core segment of the market personally - but I get that it's a bit arbitrary.
It's a lot of fun watching professional reviewers dunk on nerd junk. It however requires that it got some kind of theater release, so sadly that means very little of it got reviewed.
>americans
>having good opinions
Compilation films are usually unintelligible unless you've seen the material they compile.
Macross 2 movie version isn't actually a compilation, it's just the OVA with the OP/ED and previews removed. They're identical content wise.
The macross plus movie version sucks too. DYRL is the only good macross movie.
Plus ME is tough because it's all hacked down and screws with the characterizations (already pretty unlikable characters become even bigger buttholes!) but it undeniably has a superior ending
Frontier and Delta movies are also good since they're their own unique things the way DYRL is rather than "here's the series except in 90 minutes"
>if it doesn't have every quirky sabotage scene then it sucks!
Trimming repetitive fat for a refined flow is never a bad thing, consoomer
I'm surprised anybody has old reviews of Macross II just ready to go like this
newspapers dot com has a huge archive and a pretty useful OCR search ability. If it got a release typically it got reviewed. If someone has clipped it, they can be viewed by anyone.
https://www.newspapers.com/clippings/?query=gundam
The oldest use of the word "Gundam" on this is from 1930, some girl named Goldie Gundam on a list of honor students.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/24567469/nathan-hale-school-presents-honor-roll/
is that a typo? No way that "Gundam" is someone's proper surname in USA. I can see that being a SEA name.
>Goldie gundam
Is she the lost delta gundam?
1) It's very derivative of DYRL
2) It's outside of canon, people (kinda mindlessly) hold that against it as a negative
3) Production values drop as it approaches the end
>2) It's outside of canon, people (kinda mindlessly) hold that against it as a negative
Its not.
There is some weird misconception going on that Kawamori has a personal hateboner for II when its been consistently exhibited as part of the franchise in big Macross events for the past decade or so. Plus, Macross canon is, as we all know, very loose.
>25 years after Delta, Earth will become an isolationist bunker humans and Zentradi are hiding in, colony fleets won't exist, the original UN Spacy will be restored and they will use the VF-2 as their main fighter.
Macross canon is loose but it ain't that loose.
Like I said, being non-canon isn't a slight so I don't know why you'd get defensive about it, it doesn't make it not part of the Macross franchise.
Macross canon is "every entry is an in universe dramatization of a real event"; so yes, it absolutely is that loose. Kawamori has included music from II in 7 and Frontier, and possibly other entries too. Which is about all the reference he can include seeing as how the characters, mechs etc wouldn't exist yet. Not that he tends to reference the characters or mechs from previous entries all that much these days anyway. Max is about the only character from a previous entry that tends to pop up much, and the VF-17 the only mech to feature in most entries.
The VF-1 still shows up a lot too.
Weird misconception? It's literally described as being an alternate universe in the Macross on official DVDs when describing the series timelines.
Frontier briefly showed a single seat craft that was meant to be a reference to the VF-2SS.
It's actually been making a comeback in Japan according to a Macross panel I went too a few years ago.
I think the only issue is that the first episode was a bit dull and the last episode feels rushed. Especially the love triangle element, that was mismanaged.
I don't know how people can not love the way it looks though. I think it is genuinely good OVA overall personally.
I dislike a lot of the mecha designs
It's not really, and it was the lowest placed of all mainline Macross entries in the NHK poll from 2019, as an example. It placed 13th out of 16 places in the "Anime Works" category, coming ahead of only supplementary animations like the Macross 7 Movie (which was really just another episode of the TV show in practice), Flashback 2012 (a short animation) and FB7 (the Macross 7/Frontier crossover special that's mostly just a summary of M7 if I recall).
There's no indication of numbers there, though you can see a breakdown of the votes by age/sex (85% male, 15 female; mostly popular with those in the 40 to 49 bracket, unsurprisingly given it's release date). Still, every TV show, every OVA and every theatrical movie was more popular than it. Macross II isn't hated, but it's not loved any stretched either and it doesn't look like that's changing because the popularity it does have is all with older people. Who are going to continue to age out, at which point it'll just be mostly forgotten. Which it already basically is anyway.
Saying it's "hated" is going overboard, it would be more accurate to describe it as the redheaded stepchild of the series.
>I think the only issue is that the first episode was a bit dull and the last episode feels rushed.
I definitely agree that the finale feels rushed, as if they were originally planning on having an additional episode that got cut at the last minute. Other than those flaws I really don't find anything wrong with Macross II and I consider it my favorite OVA in the franchise.
>Frontier and Delta movies are also good
LMAO no
Are they better than their respective TV series? Debatable, but that doesn't make them good.
Macross Delta was just a remake of it.
Mou ichido love you is among the top of the top when it comes to macross songs.
Two thing though, and I'm being completely serious.
1. Why do you assume here on /m/ that even has people that like Delta that this is unamiously hated? We are not a hivemind yet /m/ usually has many users that will champion a series that most fans would consider bad or mediocre.
2.Why not just start the thread with a title/subject asking for appreciation? If you enjoyed it, the best way to start discussions with other users who did as well is to talk about it in a positive light without sounding like you're trying to change other peoples opinion of it. Trust me, if people on /m/ hate something there is no way you're going to get them to feel as though it "wasn't that bad".
As for myself I haven't seen it personally, I've always been meaning to for completion's sake, but there are not enough hours in the day to watch everything. I'm sure it's better than Delta but that's not saying much.
It would take you less time to watch Macross 2 than it would to watch even one Delta movie. And neither are worth your time.
Macross 2 Lovers Again at least has retro OVA style animation.
Delta has cooler VFs
That's five tone shading for you
>has great music
the pop music that's supposed to bring everyone together is bearable which is an improvement over Minmay's screeching
>Minmay's screeching
Mari Iijima sounded fine in the 80's. I'd carve my ears out before I listen to her now though.
It honestly looks more like Macross than Frontier or Delta
> It's closer in style and tone to DYRL than either Frontier or Delta, therefor it's more Macross than them
Say what you mean anon.
you're moronic
I like it a lot, my favorite Macross outside of SDF and DYRL.
Does anyone know if the ending of the novel is different from the anime???
she bites her tongue off to sudoku while getting gang raped
Yeah I wouldn't say its hated either, I feel like people really trying to be contrarian special specials try to spread that sentiment when the reality is that it's mostly just forgotten and shrugged at since it was essentially rendered apocryphal in the broader scheme of Macross' universe, and the work itself wasn't that memorable for any particular reason.
Thats mainly my only real "issue" with it. It's sorta just...eh. It's enjoyable but it's not something I'm pining to ever see again. The whole plot is just a really flat retread of the original series and DYRL when it all comes down to it. All the characters are really underdeveloped, especially Sylvie which is crazy considering she's the closest we have to a protag valkyrie pilot. Ishtar is a walking macguffin, she barely has any personality. Reporter man is an interesting idea for a protagonist...a civilian for a change, but even he's just kinda flat and to be honest I found him really annoying at one point.
It's not ALL bad I'll give you that, the animation is pretty okay, and some of the ideas in this are kind of interesting...the idea of society long forgetting the Macross and everything that happened...some of the designs are pretty neat especially those Macross Cannon/Zentradi hybrid battle ships...the one design I wouldn't mind salvaging from it.
Otherwise though...I just kinda struggle to remember a lot of it. Subsequent Macross media just kind of fleshed out the universe in more interesting ways with humanity aggressively expanding far into space, whereas in this series they seemed stagnant and generally gathered on Earth which just seems completely counter to the big all eggs in one basket lesson taken from the very first series, that all other Macross media has logically taken into account...except for II.
Like others have said, it doesn't have a "terrible" reputation, it's just kind of forgotten. A far reaching experimental attempt to give Macross a sequel before Plus and Seven did it for real.
It's also a pretty blatant remake of Roman Holiday at times because Japan loves their Audrey Hepburn movies. I'm not sure if that's a feather in its cap but it is an example of why you have princesses cutting their hair when they go to hang out with paupers.