Why were the two alleged top of the line MS designed by ZAFT's top scientists to end all war such outdated pieces of shit compared to Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice?
Why were the two alleged top of the line MS designed by ZAFT's top scientists to end all war such outdated pieces of shit compared to Strike Free...
Because ZAFT actually adheres to its anti-nuke treaties unlike Terminal.
Shinn’s happy face in this scene when he realizes he’s getting this baller Gundam custom-made for him is the best. Only one of the main pilots who appreciates his machine.
>Because ZAFT actually adheres to its anti-nuke treaties unlike Terminal.
They put the same engines in these, they just messed with the model number to make it look like they weren't nuclear powers during development.
>Because ZAFT actually adheres to its anti-nuke treaties unlike Terminal.
Literally no side abides by the Junius Treaty. It's worthless. It's supposed to ban two things: nuclear power in warfare, and Mirage Colloid. Before the war even starts, the EA's special forces are tooling around in a Mirage Colloid invisible ship, then the very first thing they do in the opening seconds of the war is try to nuke the PLANTs. ZAFT builds two nuclear Gundams, of which Destiny also uses Mirage Colloid for its wings, and another nuclear death laser. Terminal keeps the nuclear Gundam it already has and builds two more, so at least they didn't use Mirage Colloid I guess.
Terminal arguably abides by it the most since it locked Freedom away and didn't reactivate it until everyone else had already violated the treaty, and didn't build their new Nuclear Gundam's until Zaft already had.
>Terminal keeps the nuclear Gundam it already has and builds two more, so at least they didn't use Mirage Colloid I guess.
Actually Strike Rouge Ootori supposedly used Mirage Colloid as part of it's ECM system, but it's arguable if that counts, since not only is Ootori possibly not canon, but even if it is neither Cagalli or Kira actually make use of that equipment while piloting it.
>but it's arguable if that counts, since not only is Ootori possibly not canon
I think the "current" canon is the Remastered versions.
>outdated pieces of shit
How?
Destiny has VL and Legend had Dragoons. And all 4 have the same super NJC iirc
Legend can't fire skittles beams, has no VL, arguably has worse DRAGOONs than Providence despite being its successor
Destiny's skittles beam is only operable out of a cannon it has to extend and aim using its hand in an era where nearly every other suit including shit like the Abyss has it built into the chassis, it has no hands free weapons at all, and its most prominent melee weapon the anti ship sword can easily be destroyed because of how the emitters on it work compared to a normal beam saber
Neither unit has any sort of interface with a METEOR like system to augment it
Destiny has two aims: serve as an anti-Destroy platform, and combine all of Shinn's Silhouette packs in a single unit as a customized unit for his personal use.
>skittles beam
Stop talking in Discord memes, you imbecile.
>Neither unit has any sort of interface with a METEOR like system to augment it
METEORs were a thing specifically made for the Eternal. No other ZAFT ship mounts them, including the Minerva and Gondwana.
>METEORs were a thing specifically made for the Eternal. No other ZAFT ship mounts them, including the Minerva and Gondwana.
sounds like a design flaw for ZAFT then considering they were already proven to be extremely effective in the previous war
It was more a choice, they were designed to be stationed on Minerva and travel freely between Earth and Space rather than build a second Eternal type ship with Meteor's for them because Durandal didn't need them to have Meteor's since they'd have a whole fleet backing them as well as several WMDs.
METEORs required an entire ship to support them, with the Eternal also using the METEORs as turrets when they aren't in use.
The bigger reason why Terminal kept the METEOR support for SF and IJ is that the Eternal is THE ship that specifically supports the Freedom and Justice, and losing the METEORs flatout reduced the firepower of the Eternal(which is already pitiful for a flagship). They had no reason to not have the METEORs given that they already had the systems in place to support them and as you said, they were very effective given Terminal's size.
Yeah but why not design an Eternal class ship 2.0? Just make nu-Meteors compatible with a Gouf or some shit
Not compatible with Durandal's strategy. He had more use for a pseudo-Archangel with trans-atmospheric capabilities than what's basically a tender ship for two unique units and its glorified turrets.
Meteor's require a nuclear engine to run since it draws the power from the suit. He could have made a Eternal for Destiny and Legend, but Eternal type ships can't operate on Earth (nor can Meteor's for that matter) and he knew they be mostly fighting LOGOS down on Earth, so that would be a huge resource sink for something they probably wouldn't use much.
>already have the Minerva, a ship equal if not better than the Archangel
>build another Eternal
>when the Eternal only existed to ferry the Freedom, Justice and METEORs around in the first place
You can't justify another Eternal.
Even Terminal outright just kept the SF and IJ on the Archangel and the Eternal was just their METEOR ferry and space HQ.
Eternal fricking sucked as a flagship, the only saving grace is that its fast. Hence why the Eternal fricking gets into trouble anytime it has to fight headon alone and is unable to simply run away as they do. The Archangel does all the heavy lifting for Terminal and the Eternal is flatout hidden until they need the METEORs.
>serve as an anti-Destroy platform
Freedom and Impulse already made Destroy a joke, making a platform specialized to defeat them was irrelevant
Less dragoons total
>Freedom and Impulse already made Destroy a joke
It took both of them, and a lot of effort, to take a single Destroy down. Destiny single-handedly wipes half a dozen of the damned things.
This. Impulse caused minor damage, and Freedom had to literally jam both it's sabers into Destroy's main cannon as it was charging to fire to make them overload and blow back in order to deal fatal damage to it. And the thing STILL was mostly intact, just that the wienerpit was ruined and pilot killed. Destiny by contrast can casually just total the things with minor effort.
If Shinn just takes the anti ship sword with him it would've been the same result with the Impulse
>Sure it is, since that means Legend can actually fire them while on Earth even if limited fashion,
wasn't depicted as a relevant advantage at all in their fight in atmosphere
>If Shinn just takes the anti ship sword with him it would've been the same result with the Impulse
Impulse doesn't have the thrust or output for that. Even using Sword Impulse, Lunamaria needed help from Rey to down one and only really did minor damage to it.
>wasn't depicted as a relevant advantage at all in their fight in atmosphere
Did you miss the part where Rey fired all of them at Kira and even with the shield up it knocked him out of control that would have had him blown up had Athrun not gotten into IJ while half dead to save him?
>
>Did you miss the part where Rey fired all of them at Kira and even with the shield up it knocked him out of control that would have had him blown up had Athrun not gotten into IJ while half dead to save him?
oh excuse me, it's an advantage when it's 2v1 then
That would have worked just as well 1 on 1 too.
>If Shinn just takes the anti ship sword with him it would've been the same result with the Impulse
Not only is the Destiny's Arondight far more powerful than the Sword Impulse's Excaliburs (as
noted), but also, if Legend wasn't providing cover with its beam shield, Lunamaria would've been fried crispy.
>METEORs were a thing specifically made for the Eternal.
If the manga are to be considered, a second pair of METEORs were developed, with built-in NJC-equipped Nuclear Reactors that were for testing. Gai and Lowe steal them in order to stop an EA MA and gets them destroyed. The SEED Re manga further retcons it back as an evolution of an aquatic system utilized by the Buster (which is basically a navalized METEOR setup).
But yeah, it's a bit odd that there weren't at least another ship to utilize them, given the value.
Older details of the Destiny and Legend originally mentioned that the Hyper-Deuterion Engine was set up differently than the SF and IJ's; officially to explain away how Destiny still lost power.
Back then, it was stated that in order to keep up with appearances of being non-nuclear, both Destiny and Legend were wired to use batteries/capacitors while the nuclear reactor kept charging it, or could be kept off entirely for appearances. Allowed for a massive power burst, at the expense of efficiency. On the other hand, since SF and IJ were secret projects with no need to play for the public, SF and IJN both were wired to directly get power straight from the reactor, while the batteries instead were for emergency-use (like an emergency reactor scram) or fast-charging of the extra equipment (SF's DRAGOONs and IJ's Fatum and Beam Boomerangs), trading burst for continuous endurance.
At some point, SEED's later models and mechanics kind of stopped including that reference, but kept the power loss in animaiton, and instead explained it as simply that Destiny's WoL and other equipment were too energy intensive, even after halving the equipment from the Destiny Impulse test packs.
>The SEED Re manga further retcons it back as an evolution of an aquatic system utilized by the Buster (which is basically a navalized METEOR setup).
This looks more like a ZnO grafted to the back of the Buster, with two arms made out of a GOOhN chassis.
Accoridng to the manual, METEORs were originally intended as ZAFT's take on a Striker Pack, and got super-sized with the appearance of NJC. Obviously, they used this know-how in the latter development of the Silhouette Packs.
So, they were intended from the start to be MS addons, with their role as Eternal turrets as secondary.
Also, there are eight METEORs:
>Units 1 and 2 were the SEED ones
>Units 3 and 4 are MIA, presumed dismantled after the Treaty of Junius
>Units 5 and 6 are the Astray ones
>Units 7 and 8 are the Destiny ones, which might've been newly built by Terminal
One more thing: https://youtu.be/watch?v=1xMeCtByn-c
The name "Meteor" comes directly from TM Revolution's song, to whom Fukuda asked if he could borrow the name.
>8 Meteors
Holy shit. I remember talking about that on forums over 15 years ago. We all wondered where the others would pop up and why ZAFT didn't use any in Destiny. People even joked about Shinn and Rey getting ASTEROIDS and fake spoilers gave Durandal a Fortune Gundam.
Which is odd, because the original Justice's Meteor was never destroyed (he ditches it when he and Cagalli move on Genesis since it was too bulky. So that should be accounted for somewhere. I always figured it was one of the ones used in Destiny, but I guess not.
I bet the Eurasians captured Units 3 and 4.
Yeah originally they were supposed to have different power set ups, and this is obvious in their general builds (SF and IJ still retain the top loading chest wienerpits because the torso holds the reactor style design of the original units while Destiny and Legend have a regular waist one) and how they're depicted tech wise out of battle, where SF and IJ still use the original nuclear reactor style OS and launch without a charging cable, while Destiny and Legend have a new OS and still need a charging cable to launch. And of course Destiny running low on power while SF did not. Although it's worth noting SF and IJ's wienerpit designs are different from both the original units (though similar) and also Destiny and Legend's (which are totally different and more in line with the ZAFT second stage series)
Even in early games SF and IJ would often be depicted with energy regeneration while Destiny and Legend did not such as in SRW Z (which would be corrected in the sequels).
It's worth noting SF's origin was implied to be very different originally based on the initial shots of it from the 3rd OP (and stock footage which uses those shots) which came out over a dozen episodes before it debuted proper. It had a non standard head crest with no number that just said "Liberta Modifica" or "Modified Freedom" on it. While when it debuted proper it had a standard Zaft serial number on it. That would seem to imply originally Strike, or Super Freedom I guess was gonna be a Clyne Faction custom job rather than something built with ZAFT data. Possibly even just a refit of the original that wasn't going to be totally destroyed which would explain why SF still has the general build of the original and would fit with the AA team's initial style of being under supplied and having to make due with the few things they had left from the previous war and needing to be stealthy before suddenly they had an info network, a factory that built them brand new MS and a whole fleet.
Yep, the steady changes throughout SEED's run does seem to line up with the claims that the plans for Kira's MS kept changing even towards finalizing episodes.
Then the concepts would be reused in different ways:
The original plan for a continuously upgraded Strike led to the Testament, which was explained away as not being ready in time compared to the Freedom due to needing to develop ZAFT Striker packs for it and thus instead existed in sidestories, and the Outframe D non-nuclear derivative made from additional spare parts.
The original 3 packs in 1 concept got reused as the Destiny, then reused again officially in the Perfect Strike. It's still humorous how Perfect Strike and Destiny ended up being derived from the same concept, just put into action years apart, and ironically diluting the Destiny's design to some extent (since build-wise, it really is just a fancy upgraded take of the Perfect Strike).
Freedom itself being designed as a different kind of "all-in-one" after cutting the idea of having 2 packs down to 1, and as you mentioned, the SF's own development shifting between either being a heavily upgraded Freedom, or an entirely new build.
>Freedom itself being designed as a different kind of "all-in-one" after cutting the idea of having 2 packs down to 1
I always Freedom as being a merge between the Aile and Launcher Strike's the two packs Kira's favored the most, with the Sword pack being left out because Kira really didn't seem to like using it unless he absolutely had to and it had bad memories because he killed Nicol with it
That's probably why they also cut out the upgraded pack concept.
The 2 pack concept was basically Aile+Launcher, and Aile+Sword; mobile ranged weapons platform and fast melee weapons platform. The concept image of the pre-finalized Freedom was basically based off the Aile+Launcher concept, then streamlined into the 8-winged form we all know.
The Legend's dragoons can pivot on its body to be fired and can act as beam sabers. That's a massive improvement over the providence
DRAGOONS also don't work well in atmosphere so it's one of the only ones that has use outside space. SF can't use its wings either then.
>SF can't use its wings either then.
Wrong
I'll compromise and say it can be partially deployed on Earth. The vents are still mostly blocked by the Dragoons. We see once they get to space that Kira can deploy the Dragoons and the WoL truly roars out of the wings.
Well if Strike Freedom actually deployed from earth it can get rid of it's Dragoons but it came from space and entered the earth's atmosphere
Pretty sure they can modify it's arsenal just like Akatsuki using a flight pack on earth's atmosphere and Dragoons in space
I'm pretty sure they are required for it's flight control in atmosphere like Freedom's wings were so it can't just dump them somewhere and go without.
Even without WoL, SF still performs better than Destiny in an atmosphere.
It was a retcon based on the PG which allowed you to extend the dragoons and expose the inner frame and thus the VL system.
>and its most prominent melee weapon the anti ship sword can easily be destroyed because of how the emitters on it work compared to a normal beam saber
How many of those swords did Destiny lose? Four?
IIRC the first one was lost when he stabs Athrun's GOUF and let it fall into the water. Then there's the one that was lost at the battle of Orb when Jesus performs the sword catch. Don't recall any others, but he likely lost another sword at the end of the series since he wasn't holding anything in his hands at one point and tried to counter Athrun's beam saber with his palm beam cannon.
Athrun sliced off his arms at Orb so he lost one there too iirc.
The sword was destroyed by IJ’s beam kick in the last fight too.
They never show how that one gets destroyed, they just cut to the aftermath of it being sliced apart while Kira is giving his MC babble speech to Rey
Destiny is completely useless if its hands are destroyed
Looks like a design flaw.
It wasn't that the MS's were any worse than the IJ & SF, it was the fact the pilots had a massive skill issue when it came to fighting those 2.
>It wasn't that the MS's were any worse than the IJ & SF, it was the fact the pilots had a massive skill issue when it came to fighting those 2.
The supposedly anti-ship palm beam cannons get overpowered by beam sabers. In spite of being huge and unwieldy, needing the entire suit focused on it for its use, the side beam cannon on the Destiny just matched the chest beam cannon on the Strike Freedom that could be spammed without issues. The suit was trash.
In hindsight, while the Destiny is surprisingly lacking in hands-off weapons, it takes an immense skill issue to lose those hands. Between double beam shields, palm lasers, and VL speed, it's abnormal as hell to lose an arm.
>In hindsight, while the Destiny is surprisingly lacking in hands-off weapons, it takes an immense skill issue to lose those hands. Between double beam shields, palm lasers, and VL speed, it's abnormal as hell to lose an arm.
The issue isn't hands off weapons with Destiny. The issue is that Shinn kept trying to go for killing blows, and trying to end the fight immediately. Shinn tried to fight Kira and Athrun like he fought the Destroy Gundams....With speed and one massive killing strike. That never works on Kira and Athrun.
Shinn needed to be more patient and grind down opponents like Kira and Athrun. Keep them busy, tire them out, Wait for them to make a mistake, and then Strike hard. Like how the druggies did it in Season 1 of Seed. Kira got tired, panicked, and made a mistake. Then the druggies immediately pounced in Freedom.
Shinn can't do that because his shitty unit is the only one with power issues.
Sure he can. You can see Shinn switch tactics against Strike Freedom during the Battle of Orb. Shinn switches to using his beam rifle, stops using WoL, and just keeps jabbing at Kira with accurate beam rifle attacks. Even Kira expresses a sound of annoyance at Shinn doing this.
Kira is annoyed when Shinn is using the WoL.
>his shitty unit is the only one with power issues.
Only because he's a fricking idiot who keeps spamming weapons that drain power.
The Destiny and Legend had nuclear reactors but are still "battery-powered" in the sense that they draw power from the battery that the reactor is charging. They have infinite power, but they can't drain the battery faster than the reactor is charging it.
He didn't spam shit. I don't know why people say that. He used his WoL less in that battle than in other battles. During Heaven's Base, he was spamming everything. Including using beam shields to block Destroy's beams while pushing through with the WoL. He ran out of power against Strike Freedom due to plot. Not due to overusing his weapons.
>I don't know why people say that. He used his WoL less in that battle than in other battles.
Because the Battle of Orb was longer than the Battle Of Heaven's base. ZAFT commanders even complain about an Island nation being able to put up such a long resistance. They didn't expect Orb to hold on for so long. Destiny and SF are fighting for an extended period of time. Knowing Shinn's fighting style, probably used the WoL many times. He was angry and wanted to destroy SF. In contrast, Heaven's base fell quickly once all the Destroy Gundams were defeated.
Shinn didn't fight during the whole battle. He launched and immediately fought Akatsuki and then Strike Freedom. Nothing suggests their battle went on for a long time. There's a reason they flipflopped on suit running out of power.
>Nothing suggests their battle went on for a long time
Prove it.
You made the claim that the Battle of Orb was longer than Heaven's Base and that's why Shinn ran out of energy despite him launching late and only fighting a couple of enemies. You prove it.
Kiras plot armor induced mechanical problems in the destiny's power system. Simple as
I like how you can see the fingers glow burning red as Shinn goes full moron and tries to grip the beams. The palma fiocina is powerful enough to totally counter the Destroy Gundam's main guns, if he didn't try to grip the beams with his fingers he would've won that struggle.
They're all effectively equally powerful in design and equipment other than the specific load outs for each of them like Destiny lacking hands free mounted weaponry like the others have and Destiny and Legend not being Meteor compatible, which is because Durandal chose not to create a support ship entirely for them the way Freedom and Justice did but instead send them to the Minerva.
The Legend is literally worse at using its primary method of attack than the Freedom is
How so? Legend has 10 Dragoon's to SF's 8, and more than a single cannon on each Dragoon, leading to 26 total guns on them to SF's 8. Legend has far more firepower than SF does even with SF's extra suit mounted guns. It can also swivel them to fire them while mounted while SF cannot (they can only shift to deploy the WoL) making SF's dragoons unable to be shot while docked
Being able to swivel isnt that much of an advantage and you're forgetting Freedom has the waist rails and a better beam rifle
>Being able to swivel isnt that much of an advantage
Sure it is, since that means Legend can actually fire them while on Earth even if limited fashion, while SF's are just for decoration.
>you're forgetting Freedom has the waist rails and a better beam rifle
That's still way less guns than Legend. 13 on SF vs Legend's 26.
>and a better beam rifle
Citation needed.
Not him, but that kind of goes without saying. SF can combine it's rifles into one big one with a piercing beam shot. Legend cannot.
There are instances in the final battle of the combined rifle shots from SF knocking Legend and Destiny around even when they block with the beam shields
Ah yes, the waist railguns that are useless against MS with Phase Shift and the beam rifles that have to be combined to function like the Legend's rifle normally does
vs
26 fricking beam guns
>Ah yes, the waist railguns that are useless against MS with Phase Shift
Not useless. They hurt a lot.
Eventually, PS armor will fail against physical projectiles. They have a damage threshold.
did that part of abyss not have PS or something or is the tech jump that huge to destiny/legend?
SF shot destiny point blank and it just rattles him.
wait , i dont remember this ever happening , last i remember destroy was only used with stella and then nada ... is this some retcon from the hd version or something?
No there were two whole episodes dedicated to Destiny and Legend basically tearing apart fleets of Destroy's. Did you forget everything in the second half of the show that aren't the Shinn vs Kira and Athrun parts?
>last i remember destroy was only used with stella and then nada ...
Come on, Anon. Is this bait or something? To recap:
>Stella's Destroy does the rampage across Eastern Europe. Impulse and Freedom stop it in Berlin.
>Five Destroys show up to defend Heaven's Base. Shinn pulverizes them in the Destiny with ease (including one unit piloted by Sting), with some minor support from Legend and Lunamaria's Impulse
>Three Destroys pop in Arzachel Base. Destiny styles on them.
Destiny wrecked a lot Destroys. They were deployed at Requiem as well.
How is it slicing upwards when there is neither a blade nor a beam on that backside?
Watch it again, he turns the blade over when he ascends
here
honestly i absolutely forgot about the extra Destinys other than stellas death all i remember is shinn wasting enough parts to make 4 more impulse´s just to take out freedom , and then the whole final arch , i completely forgot, then again i haven rewatched destiny since it aired ...
thanks , apparently my brain found destiny soooo bad that i blocked most of those memories
Wait, I though the Destroy's wienerpit was located in their heads?
It's in the lower chest.
Bad writing
The only real answer ITT. And of course because Bandai wanted to push the Strike Freedom and Infinity Justice kits the most.
The more I think about it the more I believe Rey vs Athrun and Shinn vs Kira would've been a better match up for ZAFT's odds
Probably, but Rey decided he needed to fully convert Shinn and take out his personal score. Really the smart thing to do would have been to just let Athrun go, and tag team Kira, then go and tag team Athrun.
Athrun doesn't have any experience vs DRAGOONs and unlike Destiny it lacks effective methods to dodge them on reaction, I feel like Rey could finish that fight pretty fast and then just go help Kira
>Athrun doesn't have any experience vs DRAGOONs
He has fought units with remote weapons before: Moebius Zero, Chaos, etc. Also, Infinite Justice is as much of an overpowered monster as Strike Freedom.
Also Rey does use his Dragoon's on Athrun during their brief two and on two, and while Athrun struggles, he manages to dodge most and block the rest.
Which is stupid because even Kira in Freedom couldn't dodge all of Providence's attacks
Kira had never fought remote weapons before that point though, while Athrun had.
Kira's supposed to have spatial awareness, also he's fought 4v1 which should be just as good of experience at dealing with attacks from every angle
Kira's only as good as the plot requires him to be. He'll underperform or keep sparing Shinn to drag out encounters, then actually perform at his full implied skill level during the finale.
Kira could handle Shinn even easier than Athrun because of no emotional attachment being there. Just look at the battle of Orb or there brief encounter in space.
Athrun may struggle a bit with Rey since his suit is a complete mismatch but Athrun Seed mode will asspull a victory in the end.
>Just look at the battle of Orb or there brief encounter in space
Shinn kept up with Kira once they were both in SEED at Orb, they had to literally manufacture a reason for him to retreat
He lost his main melee weapon & got styled on in the same move. Kira would have taken more weapons out in the end before he retreated if he dragged it out any longer. Shinn would have lost in the end 1v1.
Even without the power loss plothole Kira was winning that fight. Shinn had lost all his primary melee weapons vs Kira taking zero damage so far. At best all Shinn could really do was waste Kira's time, as melee was his only way to win and all his options there were gone. He wasn't gonna beat Kira at range, he couldn't even do that in Angel Down. And the palm cannon at point blank is too slow and obvious a wind up, as we saw next episode where Shinn tried it and Kira just round house kicked him away and would have blown Destiny's head off if Rey didn't jump in to save him.
If Shinn and Rey ganged up on Kira, Athrun would have showed up to help. And Kira and Athrun dominated the 2v2 matchup at Orb.
I don’t think Shinn and Rey win this one without Rey doing some psycho shit like using Luna as a human shield against Athrun or trying to sink the Eternal and triggering Kira’s Fllay PTSD.
Possibly, but Athrun had already gotten a head to start to Requiem while Kira tied them up for a bit and Destiny was faster than Legend. If Rey broke off to try to get Athrun he might not have caught up with him before he took out Requiem and got to Durandal.
Plus Mu and Akatsuki were also with Athrun and that REALLY would have been a bad match up for Rey if Mu decided to try to help him. Not only would two on one already be bad but Mu is more experienced with remote weapons than Rey is, has not-Newtype to help dodge them and his suit is invulnerable to beam fire and has his own Dragoons that are ALSO invulnerable to beam fire vs Legend which has no solid firing weapons.
The Strike Freedom's various profiles say that the design was loaded with the latest technologies to make it comparable to the Destiny. It's true that the Strike Freedom is probably better all around, one source called it the ultimate MS in CE, but they're all around the same level.
Because Lacus stole the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice or she stole the plans and deleted the data/recruited ZAFT's top scientists so all that was left was the C team.
They were designed by Lacus's faction. Some sources say different things but iirc they originally based on unused mass production or old prototype designs and loaded with modern technology. The Infinite Justice was also designed specifically for Athrun to use as Kira's wingman, but in the end they just fight on their own for some reason.
>muh SOURCES SOURCES SOURCES
If it AIN'T in the anime itself, it AIN'T CANON.
No, all sources claim they were Zaft designs. The only thing that varies is whether Lacus' faction (or Terminal) just got plans or actually stole incomplete suits.
>No, all sources claim they were Zaft designs
Not at all. The HGCE Strike Freedom manual specifically says that the Clyne faction seized the original development data which was halted after the end of the first PLANT-Alliance War, and they developed the Strike Freedom we all know and love by incorporating the technology and data from the 2nd Stage series gundams, and also that things like the golden PS protected inner frame, VPS for the armor, and Hi-MAT and full burst were added with Kira's use in mind.
That establishes two facts, the original ZAFT design is pretty old and it was never completed in the first place. The actual MS we see is completely cutting edge and has contemporary technology and then some in it. The old NG 1/100 also says that the Strike Freedom was created by Terminal by taking the Freedom's design and updating it with the latest data and technology from the 2nd Stage Series.
The new MGEX is vague about it, saying that Lacus and her allies developed it based on data from ZAFT, but it leans towards the HGCE interpretation.
Whichever it was the suits or the plans, ZAFT no longer had them which is why Durandal only had the Legend and Destiny.
Even if he had them he wouldn't have used them. Freedom and Justice were symbols of the Clyne Faction and their pilots. Durandal wants his own enforcers.
charade
his fake Lacus charade didn't end/get revealed until after the Zaft vs Orb battle though which was after this point. So if he had the Freedom/Justice he would have been 100% using them to match his Lacus
Why wouldn't he just use the old Freedom and Justice?
He didn't have them and for plot and pride reasons he just didn't build new ones. Barely anyone knows that the Freedom still existed anyway, people might just assume it was scrapped after the end of the war due to damage or whatever since the Justice was a definite loss.
It ain't like people were asking "huhhhh where's the Eternal then???" when fake Lacus was being paraded around
Durandal tries to seperate Lacus Clyne the war leader from Lacus Clyne the pop star figurehead anyway because he wants to make himself the war leader so he wants his own symbol Gundam's being the hero. He's only using Meer to ride off Lacus's influence until he's basically taken over and made himself look like the big hero then was going to dispose of her. It's best if nobody is thinking about Freedom Justice and Eternal.
Even when Kira starts his interventions nobody ever questions why Freedom is opposing Zaft if it's master Lacus is giving her full support to Durandal so the average person in Zaft has no idea about Freedom's connection to her or who Kira Yamato is.
>Freedom and Justice were symbols of the Clyne Faction and their pilots
Just repaint and modify the details duh, give them visors
The Destiny was meant to be part of a squad of high-speed units called the Concluders.
frick off tm revolution
The VL retcon is still complete nonsense.
Why were Abyss, Gaia and Chaos' pilots not assigned to the Minerva?
They would have been but Chaos Gaia and Abyss were suspiciously delayed on being loaded into Minerva and their pilots were killed during the Extended's raid on the hanger before boarding. Said pilots weren't the guys from the manga either, just some no names, as they were just the test pilots and only Shinn was assigned the official Impulse pilot from that group.
Which manga is this? Impulse’s test phase must have been hilariously short if Shinn finished military academy and tested Impulse in under two years.
The first Astray in Destiny era whichever that was I forget. But yeah the test phases are done insanely quickly in CE. The GAT-X series were designed, developed tested and ready to roll out in just over a year, and Freedom and Justice were developed by Zaft with the stolen data and completed and ready to roll out in only 6 or so months.
So yeah the testing was probably only about a month or so before Destiny started.
>The GAT-X series were designed, developed tested and ready to roll out in just over a year, and Freedom and Justice were developed by Zaft with the stolen data and completed and ready to roll out in only 6 or so months.
It's worse than that. Look at the official timeline:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060508010305/http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/ce/background/timeline.html
January 25th:
>The Le Creuset team enters Heliopolis to capture the Earth Alliance's new mobile suits.[PHASE-01, 02]
May 5th:
>Operation Spit Break is launched.. Lacus gives the Freedom Gundam to Kira. [PHASE-34]
Three months to acquire the GAT-X units, study them, reverse-engineer technologies, plus design, manufacture and testing of two new units, plus integration of the nuclear reactors and NJC. You know how this timeframe could've made sense? Freedom and Justice are nothing more than a GINN and a CGUE with Gundam chassis bolted on, Thunderbolt style
>You know how this timeframe could've made sense?
They basically are. The Justice has the Dinn-Cgue mixed legs, Cgue arms, Aegis Gundam head, Cgue shoulders. The Freedom has Dinn arms, strike Gundam head and legs, guaz shoulders. And both basically have the guaiz torso and hips. Even the Freedom's wings that folder up are similar to the Dinn's folding wings.
>Freedom and Justice are nothing more than a GINN and a CGUE with Gundam chassis bolted on, Thunderbolt style
Given that we know that the machine that tested stuff that went into the Freedom/Justice was a modified GuAIZ, thats not too far from the truth.
>Freedom and Justice are nothing more than a GINN and a CGUE with Gundam chassis bolted on, Thunderbolt style
Considering the development of the Dreadnought and ZAFT's own Gundams, that's basically what happened.
>Captured GAT-X.
>Beam Rifle Tech incorporated into next-gen GuAIZ, which in and of itself is a fusion of the GINN and CGUE combining armor and mobility.
>At least 2 GuAIZ modified into the GuAIZ Test Type and the Dreadnought Gundam.
>In parallel, literally clone the Strike and Aegis in the form of the Testament and Regenerate, just with a nuclear reactor.
>Later develop the Freedom and Justice based on testing the new weapons equipment on the GuAIZ TT.
>Providence was meant to be the 5th sibling, but was incomplete when it was quickly retrofitted with the DRAGOON equipment; hence the exterior cabling.
Compared to the OYW which shits out fifty million variants of gundams, GMs and pale Riders in more or less the same timeframe, I'm not too bothered by the timeline to be honest.
>Freedom and Justice are nothing more than a GINN and a CGUE with Gundam chassis bolted on, Thunderbolt style
They are, but the machine they are under the hood is the GuAIZ. Personally I think the Freedom should have kept the GuAIZ's rocket anchors instead of the railguns so that it would have traits of the Aile, Launcher, and Sword all in one.
I would have liked the anchors retained just so Kira could use a broken tip of one like an armor schneider.
I don't remember Kira ever using the Sword pack's rocket anchor. In any case, it would be more appropriate for Shinn's combat style, rather than Kira's.
He used it three times, two times against BuCues and once to grab some debris in space.
He only uses it like once in the first few episodes to counter the Blitz's rocket claws
He used it against Blitz once and against the submarine commander guy. And both times it just was countered and did no damage. The boomerang meanwhile he only used once total against Miguel.
>Said pilots weren't the guys from the manga either
Are you sure? Because Mare Strode is shot at the hangar, just not killed.
Oh well maybe they retconned that it's been a while. I just know the pilots from the manga weren't killed. But regardless they were "Supposed" to be on Minerva, but it's implied by Durandal ordering Impulse loaded early and deleting the data from the other units databases that he was deliberate setting them up to be stolen as part of his project to develop Shinn into a Kira level pilot by putting him through similar conditions.
They're all designed for their pilots strengths, Shinn would be at a major disadvantage in SF, it's designed for Kira's disabling Beam spam and fancy aerial tricks, plus some Dragoons for his newly acquired spatial awareness. Likewise Kira would be hindered by Destiny because it's primary armament is for murdering people at close range and he doesn't want to do that anymore.
Or at least SF and Destiny are. IJ was just seemingly designed to be the opposite of SF to better buddy up with it, while Legend was supposedly designed for Athrun who has never used Remote Weapons before, although Durandal might have just been saying that to test his loyalty as it seems way more fitting for Rey
If Legend had a particularly good sensor suite, it could be a good commander support unit for someone with spatial awareness — monitor the battlefield and send a dragoon here or there to help out a struggling subordinate. Destiny sometimes pretends that Athrun has tactical capabilities (I think he proposes the trench run attack on the shield crab, and a maneuver that gets the Minerva away from an asteroid?) so Legend kind of makes sense as a command unit for him, until you run into him not being suited for the remote weapons.
LEGEND had SUPER DRAGOONs which does not need spacial awareness.
I wonder why Regenerate wasn't handed to Athrun instead of the Justice since it's the closest to the Aegis & what he was used to at that point.
It probably wasn't ready yet, though it's weird that Freedom was when it was made second while they were still tuning up Justice when Athrun returned.
Athrun being given Justice wasn't because it was the best match up vs his skillset but because Freedom was stolen and Justice was the only NJC MS nearly ready and the only thing that could stand up to it and he was ordered to go after it because he was Patrick's son and he trusted him to keep quiet about it.
Because Bandai was still lazy about selling mechas taller than 20meters at the time and the Regenerate Gundam is 35 meters which means more plastic for a 1/144. Same reason it took Penelope and X gundam to get plastic even though there has been demand.
Ironically, the same reason is why Calamity was shrunk down in size. Early pre-production coverage of SEED had one of the staff state that the Calamity was originally planned at 1.5x the height of the Strike and so big it could only be carried underslung by Raider's claws in MA form, but the model kit size would be skewed, with the 1/144 being almost 1/100, and a theoretical 1/100 being almost 1/60, so Bandai asked for them to scale the Calamity back.
The expanded lore behind the development of ZAFT's first 5 Gundams is kind of interesting.
Freedom was completed the fastest as it was technically meant to succeed the Buster; bringing heavy firepower but having good mobility and CQC capability. Its body form was also straightforward, being based on the CGUE and GuAIZ.
Justice was completed almost at the same time due to having a similar body design, and was technically meant to succeed the Duel, given how barebones its equipment is without the detachable flight pack drone.
Regenerate was based on the Aegis with far more advanced technology incorporated, but wasn't ready in time for Athrun's deployment due to the fact that ZAFT was still producing the modular parts and the remote deployment system that allowed it to "regenerate" damage.
Testament's production on the other hand, was deprioritized as they were basically trying to rebuild the Strike off available data from the stolen GAT-X designs, and they didn't even have ZAFT Striker packs ready for it. So when the EA managed to steal the incomplete body, they were able to quickly complete it and deploy it. As well, there were apparently two Testaments in different levels of production, as the second one would also be stolen, repurposed. and named the Astray Outframe. It just didn't have an NJC-equipped nuclear reactor.
Providence was supposed to be an upgraded testbed model based on the Dreadnought and also meant to succeed the Blitz, but when Rau requisitioned it, they had to jury-rig an upgraded DRAGOON system onto it, explaining the external cable work vs its early design that had no cables and no backpack.
Taking bets on the movie's Providence/Legend successor unit's name.
>Divine Gundam
>Mythic Gundam
>Majestic Gundam
>Absolution Gundam
>insert your own here
It’s a shame that they used Providence in SEED, it would have been a great name for a Gundam enforcing benevolent predeterminism.
If evil, Prophet, Metatron, Testament, Commandment, Revelation.
Someone said it's rumored that the MS's in the film are called MK2's to the originals, Freedom MK2 etc. But I think that might have been debunked.
That would be a waste. Having a Mk II for a sequel series, sure, I'd buy that. Having a Regined variant would fly. But the main unit has to have a new name. They need a new name for plastic peddling. Even if it's just 'Eternal Freedom' or 'Divine Justice'
Supposedly it's because the film is heavily themed as a sequel to Seed and not very much Destiny although characters like Shinn and Luna will show up. As a result the new Freedom is more based on the first one than as an upgrade to Strike Freedom.
Like how the Geass film takes more from the first season than the second one. But again, this is presumably BS.
That would be contrary directive to the prime directive of toy-selling.
Not if the first season is more popular. A new model kit is a new model kit, no matter what aesthetic it uses.
I wish it was strike MK.II instead of a new freedom
A Strike Mk II sounds cool. The most basic upgrade they could do would be a nuclear generator.
There's a "Strike Mk. II" already. Impulse.
Or, if you want to be a hipster, there's also the Raigo.
A proper Strike Mk. II would either be built by the AF or Orb. Impulse and the Raigo are just Chinese knockoffs of the Strike.
>A proper Strike Mk. II would either be built by the AF or Orb
Strike E, then.
That's more like a Mod. 2
angry strike
I think that's what they were going for in the "strike" freedom even though there was nothing strike-like about it
Strike Freedom needed a sword. And not a gold frame.
I think the "Strike" in the name was just a last minute name change. We have gotten an actual Strike and Freedom Fusion from one of the games though.
It was a last minute change. They were forced to do the name swap because of the "Super Free" college rape club incident in Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Free
Also, what can Freedom possibly gain from being an upgraded super-Strike that isn't a Destiny?
>Strike Freedom needed a sword.
Unlike Shinn, Kira rarely used the Strike's physical sword, and never in its intended "anti-ship" role. Also, it has two beam sabers: what does it gain with a sword?
>gain
Cool points and a sword fight with the Destiny.
Kira did cooler shit in the strike. He also actually struggled
If old interviews are to be believed:
One interview (Animerica or one of the other anime mags of the time) stated that Freedom was originally going to be more Strike-like, just with 2 packs instead of 3, and the Eternal being an exclusive carrier for it would have had a similar armor conversion system as the Archangel. One pack would be more or less a ranged-weapon oriented flight pack, and the other a melee-weapon oriented flight pack. Then they decided to cut out the swords and stick to beam sabers, developing this concept, which was then further refined into the Freedom as we know it.
Another interview mentioned that Destiny's design was originally one of the other early Freedom concepts; basically taking all 3 packs and just fusing them together (before the Perfect Strike was officially a thing), but execs didn't think it was "heroic enough" so they had the idea shelved, to the dismay of the mechanical designer who loved the Destiny (and later, the Perfect Strike). Then when it came time to come up with a new suit for Shinn, the mechanical designer pulled out the concept art and tweaked it to make it more of a threat, having it effectively be an "evil Perfect Strike" and representing the past vs the future.
And an early interview in one of the Newtype USA articles covering SEED did originally claim that Kira's Gundam would be upgraded at a pivotal moment, becoming more powerful, which does also lend some credence to the claims that the Strike was originally meant to go the entire series just getting more and more upgrades instead of being replaced.
>One interview (Animerica or one of the other anime mags of the time)
>And an early interview in one of the Newtype USA articles covering SEED
SOMEBODY BUY THE OLD ISSUES OFF EBAY AND SCAN THE FRICKING THINGS, PLEASE.
>Supposedly it's because the film is heavily themed as a sequel to Seed and not very much Destiny although characters like Shinn and Luna will show up. As a result the new Freedom is more based on the first one than as an upgrade to Strike Freedom.
I don't think that'll be the case, considering the only Gundam that appears in the trailer is the freaking Destroy.
Where did you hear this bullshit Wishful thinking?
Bring back the original prediction - Sin Providence
Since when does Destiny not have weapons that can't be used without hands? It has that green cannon which unfolds and fires. Hands free
but every time* its used he uses one hand on the handle
>but every time* its used he uses one hand on the handle
It's not required. Freedom Gundam has handles for its railguns, but Kira almost never uses the handles. Same with Blast Impulse. The handles are optional.
but that won't win you an argument with these kirabrains
how can you say the handles of Destiny's rail cannon are optional if we never see evidence of it?
The Destiny's side cannon is much larger though, and has a freaking trigger. It's pretty clearly meant to be held. It's one of the Destiny's most baffling design elements due to the fact that in-reality Destiny's weaponry is a combination of the Striker Pack's, not Impulse's silhouettes.
>The Destiny's side cannon is much larger though, and has a freaking trigger.
So do the other suits mentioned. It's not an indication that it absolutely needs to be held. It could simply be a preference by Shinn. The cannon is comparable to Blast Impulse cannons in length.
>Since there's no connection to the suit without the handgrip, then it's a good bet it needs the arm to shoot it.
No. The cannon is connected to the suit via the backpack socket plug mounts. We can directly see Shinn deploy the cannon without suit's arms and then grab it. So there is clearly a connection there already established.
We can assume that Shinn simply prefers to use the handle as opposed to just deploying it without grasping it. Just like we know that Shinn doesn't like using the beam saber boomerangs in beam saber mode and prefers to throw them.
You can see by the model kits and the shots from behind that the cannon is a separate unit held to the back by a clamp like the sword. There's no direct link to the suit. It's also isn't PS protected unlike the boomerangs which are directly connected which again suggests the cannon is just an attached weapon that's not plugged to the suit. It unfolds it in the animation by grabbing it in the crook of it's arm until the hand can reach it. So I guess maybe it could link to the suit from an unseen plug in the side and fire being held in the crook of the arm but that still requires most of the arm to be there.
>There's no direct link to the suit.
No. The link IS the backpack "clamp" as you call it. Besides, we KNOW Seed Handplugs can't transfer that much power on their own. Larger cannons need a larger direct connection to the suit.
>the cannon is just an attached weapon that's not plugged to the suit.
Prove it. All evidence suggests otherwise.
You show the evidence. All evidence suggests that it doesn't because it's a separate piece from the rest of the suit and Shinn never uses it without the hand once in the show.You're the one insisting on theoreticals here.
>So do the other suits mentioned. It's not an indication that it absolutely needs to be held. It could simply be a preference by Shinn. The cannon is comparable to Blast Impulse cannons in length.
It's longer. The animation somewhat exagerates its length, but even comparing the kids it's longer.
And what you're saying just makes no sense. So you think Shinn would use the weapon in a completely inefficient and slow way when eh could just fire it at will without the long holding animation? Comparing it with preferring to use the saber boomerangs as boomerangs rather than sabers is very flawed. One is a weapon with two uses and he prefers one mode, another is saying he's such an incompetent and bad pilot he uses his suit in an inefficient and slower than necessary way, and no one ever told him he was piloting it wrong.
>So you think Shinn would use the weapon in a completely inefficient and slow way when eh could just fire it at will without the long holding animation?
That's not the argument being made. The argument is that the cannon can be deployed and fited without Shinn holding onto it. That's it. Effeciency or accuracy isn't part of the debate here.
Freedom can fire the railguns without holding onto them. The guns have a handle and trigger. But Kira often doesn't use them. Same with Launcher Strike, Blast Impulse, Saviour Gundam, etc. They CAN fire their long cannons without holding onto them. Is it less accurate? Maybe. But they can still do it.
Not an argument. Every single suit in the show with a deployable long cannon has a larger direct connection to the suit. Every. single. one. So unless you actually show this is somehow isn't the case with Destiny with verifiable evidence, then we can also assume the same is true with Destiny's cannon.
>The argument is that the cannon can be deployed and fited without Shinn holding onto it.
Deployed and fired*
Typo correction.
Destiny's cannon is a separate weapon stored on the backpack like the sword, it's even got the same black "clip" holding it on. It's not mounted to the frame like Freedom or Blast Impulse's cannons are. This isn't as obvious because we don't really get any shots of Destiny from behind while using the cannon, and it never actually drops the cannon in Destiny, but it does in Build Fighters Try. Since there's no connection to the suit without the handgrip, then it's a good bet it needs the arm to shoot it.
When then begs the question WHY it's treated as a detachable weapon. Even with the weird 'reactor charges the battery' setup, it would make more sense for the cannon to be mounted to the suit, both for stability and power feed purposes.
Presumably so Destiny could toss clear it if it got hit and exploded which was a potential risk when many of Destiny's other weapons were designed for close combat. The more built in weapons you have, the bigger risk of the whole suit blowing if they are damaged and overload.
Also the "haha, it needs hands to use its weapons" meme is dumb as shit
like no duh, same with 90% of the gundams in this franchise
Not like its a common problem for suits to lose both their hands
the pilots made them outdated compared to SF and IJ
LMAO
this two shitty mobile suit are inferior to Akatsuki
Clyne faction/Three ship alliance had literally three end game Mobile suits in(SF, IJ, Akatsuki) GSD
The Akatsuki literally has no response to the Destiny just swooping and chopping it up
Akatsuki used its own beam saber to block Destiny's Anti-ship beam sword. That's the whole point of beam sabers.
a competent pilot using Akatsuki with beam sabers would easily chop off Destiny's hands and anti ship sword like this one
That's possible because Assrun's a better pilot in a suit that's virtually equal to the Destiny Gundam. When he was in teh Gouf he stood no chance despite the Gouf being a relatively high end grunt at the time. The Akatsuki is basically an upgraded Strike with a fancy beam defense system. Even in its own lore it was being developed before the Murasame
So I was right. Destiny's long range cannon does get its power from its backpack connection. Just like EVERY OTHER Gundam with a similar cannon.
Launcher Strike's power was soft-retconned to a battery pack "spike" on the back of the Agni cannon, for what it's worth. Although it's never been clarified if the backpack itself also had a battery.
>if the backpack itself
Are you referring the Destiny or the Launcher Strike's shoulder piece? I'm 90% sure there's a battery of some sort in the Destiny backpack. It has that one little piece on its MG and RG kit that is vaguely battery shaped.
Referring to the Launcher Strike's backpack. I forget if they updated the design to also have the battery spike too; same for the Sword Strike. Although they did for the Aile Strike and used multiple battery spikes for Perfect Strike.
Could be they forgot, or they relied on their other semi-forgotten bit of lore, that the physical gun triggers on their weapons were specifically so that in the event of a damaged electrical connection, they could still fire the weapons, they just wouldn't have power or full interfacing with the weapon. Still doesn't make the scene make more sense, since IIRC, the Strike/S.Rouge's beam rifles don't have a battery pack. Then again, with both units being maintained by Orb and Terminal, it's not entirely impossible that they just slapped on universal plugs (which would actually make more sense for Terminal, considering they are a coalition of rebels from all factions).
Launcher's shoulder piece is four parts: gatling vulcan, gatling vulcan ammo bank, missile pod, and binder shield. Unless it's integrated into the area behind the missile launcher, I do not believe the shoulder piece has a battery in it.
I was referring to this spike, which the Perfect Strike also makes use of in white form. Turns out I was partly wrong; they didn't add another battery spike to the Launcher Strike, but they did partially retcon the reserve battery being part of the backpack carrying harness to now being directly attached to the Launcher Strike's Agni (which still fits in-line with the rapid battery drain scenes still).
And while I can't find it, there's a Remaster Aile Strike model kit where it has a single battery spike under the white nacelle, being where the 4 batteries would later be plugged into under the Perfect Strike form. Another model-only feature was a Remaster Launcher Strike where the green battery spike could be removed and replaced with a white one, implying it was kind of field "reloadable" that way.
That just says it's a good gun, but it still doesn't confirm it can fire it without it's hand
>All the weapons used on the Destiny Gundam were custom designed for Destiny itself. And can't be used effectively with other ZAFT suits. Destiny Gundam is specifically designed to use its own weapons for maximum efficiency. Destiny's Anti-ship sword and cannon are longer than Impulse's weapon but there is no loss in performance
That's interesting and all but that suggests the cannon can't be used very well by units that aren't the Destiny, not that it it can't at all which implies the firing connection is not Destiny itself but the hand plug that can be used by other mobile suits even if not as well. Suggesting the connection is the hand after all.
I remember early claims that Destiny's main cannon was partially powered by the palm cannon assembly in the hand. While we know it's no longer true from newer manuals, there was early speculation that the Palma cannon may have either fed some of its own power into the cannon, or more exotic speculation was that it actually fed some of the partially energized particles into the cannon. Which in all fairness, was based off the SEED era manuals stating that all SEED MS have faction-specific power plugs in their hands, with the Gold Frame being a special exception in that it had dual compatibility with both EA and ZAFT weapon systems.
>Which in all fairness, was based off the SEED era manuals stating that all SEED MS have faction-specific power plugs in their hands, with the Gold Frame being a special exception in that it had dual compatibility with both EA and ZAFT weapon systems.
I think they definitely forget about that/threw that out since Destiny has a scene where Gaia takes Strike Rouge's rifle and has no trouble using it even though one is an EA/Orb model and the other Zaft and they're also several MS generations apart by that point
Sorry. I should have been more clear and seperate the wording a bit more. I will try to clear up confusion.
The Anti-ship sword can't be used by other suits effectively and is custom made for Destiny specifically to use. It is based on the AS Sword used by Impulse. It has been greatly enhanced and upgraded. Others suits can't use this AS sword very well (according to ZAFT MS Engineers). Only Destiny Gundam can use it at maximum efficiency according to ZAFT.
The cannon is an improved and upgraded version of the cannon used in Blast Impulse. The cannon gets its power from the backpack. The backpack itself, the backpack's power connections, and folding components used in the backpack weapons were miniaturized in the Destiny Gundam. This was one of the proudest achievements of ZAFT MS Engineers as they didn't want to make a large backpack that hindered suit performance. Or make a backpack that forced the pilot to make compromises. (Basically everything was shrunk down to make it fit).
The whole suit used Shinn's data heavily in the design phase. It uses a Treaty breaking hybrid nuclear reactor. Durandal tried to hide the existence of the Destiny and Legend, and made all the serial numbers/paperwork imply that the suits was battery powered.
Destiny Gundam's Wings of Light are different from Strike Freedom's Wings of Light. Both use the same original designs taken from Stargazer. But ZAFT MS Engineers and Lacus' Factory MS Engineers used completely different ideas to evolve the technology further. So they aren't the same system anymore.
Bonus:
Some prototype Destiny Impulse Gundams were created during the testing phase by ZAFT. But testing revealed that Impulse was unsuitable to use the Wings of Light. It used too much power, and the frame suffered from big structural issues when in use. This was already ontop of the fact that Impulse already suffered from frame issues because of the Core Splendor system.
That STILL doesn't say if it needs the hands to fire it though
>The cannon gets its power from the backpack. The backpack itself, the backpack's power connections, and folding components used in the backpack weapons were miniaturized in the Destiny Gundam.
How is that supposed to work when it's clearly detached from the backpack when Destiny is holding it? I guess it could be drawing power while it's docked, but that still wouldn't allow it to fire without it being physically held.
>How is that supposed to work when it's clearly detached from the backpack when Destiny is holding it?
According the supplementary material I looked up, the cannon stays connected to Destiny Gundam. It does not detach when firing. The backpack connector power clamp rotates, and can angle downward when deploying the cannon.
The other anon won't admit he was wrong. Don't expect a reply from him saying "Oh I admit I was wrong. I see now".
So let me be the first to thank you for putting an end to other anon's ridiculous claims. The rest of us were tired of his autism about the beam cannon.
That proves nothing. Show me a scene in anything where Destiny fires hands free. I'm waiting
>That proves nothing.
You literally SAID the the gun detaches when it fires.
See
And now when another anon provided you wrong, you don't even have the humbleness to admit you were wrong? Pathetic.
Inb4 he says "that wasn't me!" and tries to pretend he didn't say it.
Alright fine I'm wrong and I fricking hate all of you for proving it. I'll remember this you fricking pukes.
Bet. I admit I was wrong. I see now
Ignore this anon pretending to me. I'm not happy or humble about this at all. Frick you guys I wanted to be right. Frick you anon who posted the material.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
You fricking homosexual do you know what you've done!? Now we can't say Destiny is the worst Gundam anymore. Frick you, Shinn lover.
Destiny still is one of the worst gundams in execution, being overspecialized and unable to fully power itself continuously.
Only the GP02A is worse; and mainly because it was an overspecialized, borderline suicidal nuclear delivery system. The alternate variants aren't as bad, but still really niche as an ultra-heavy fire-support unit.
Oh good. Then I can continue to be correct that Shinn and everything about him is shit and Kira is the best
>Destiny still is one of the worst gundams in execution, being overspecialized and unable to fully power itself continuously.
Shinn just needed to learn not spam the WoL and fight more strategically. Instead he went full caveman with his sword and stomped his foot on the gas.
It would be like if Freedom went into Hit-mat mode, deployed his 5 guns, and kept firing continuously without stopping. Something is gonna overheat, break, or be drained of power.
This is why no one bothers posting supplementary material anymore. Anon digs through old books to give everyone answers, and he doesn't even get a simple thank you. The angry anon just goes silent and doesn't say anything. So I'm gonna say thanks for answering everyone's questions.
I'd argue the biggest evidence Destiny can't fire the cannon without the hand is that after it's hands are destroyed in the final battle Shinn still has the time and ability to get off one final attack but ops for a kick instead of backing off and firing the cannon at close range. If there was ever a moment to use the cannon without the hand that was it, but instead Shinn used an attack that very clearly wouldn't work (IJ has bladed legs and phase shift and Shinn knew that) seemingly as a last desperate attack of defiance. And no Shinn is just an idiot/Plot armor is not an excuse because he still could have done that and Athrun could blocked and finished him off anyway.
>Shinn is just an idiot/Plot armor is not an excuse
I feel that Shinn's anger issues when piloting makes his piloting of the Destiny extremely unreliable as a gauge of what the Destiny could do.
After getting the Destiny he just turns into a berserker in battle and is seemingly unable to do any tactical movements.
The Destiny is a heavy hitter that rewards precision due to its hybrid powered nature, use the WoL to maneuver into position and use the beam cannon or sword to hit hard. Its a contradicting machine in that regard, the preferred fighting style is what you expect from a berserker, but you still need precision to be very effective in longer drawn out battles or against equal foes.
SF > IJ > Akatsuki > Legend > Destiny
>Also, the "wings of light" Destiny Gundam uses is different than Strike Freedom's WoL. While they share the same basic design principals. ZAFT Engineers and Lacus Engineers used different approaches to evolve the technology in their own way.
Can you elaborate? Did the Destiny Gundam books say what the differences were between the two wings of light?
NTA but from what I remember Destiny's uses Mirage Colloid to create after images, while SF's uses the Stargazer's system to gain extra propulsion from solar particles
So the Strike Freedom has an advantage in space but the Destiny has an advantage in gravity.
>Can you elaborate? Did the Destiny Gundam books say what the differences were between the two wings of light?
The section I was quoting was a little vague on the differences. I have to get back to you later when I researched this more.
Not that Anon either, but AFAIK:
SF's and Destiny's WoL were based on stolen Stargazer tech (DSSD shared it with neutral groups like the Junk Guild, but refused to share the tech with military groups), but instead made use of internal lasers to create the light-based thrust and is really only actually usable as an assist to the main thrusters. Its main advantage is the ability to allow for directional changes in an instant, both from the shifting of the wings and the directionality control of the light-based thrust.
Destiny's WoL worked in conjunction with Mirage Colloid to release a particle cloud that temporarily creates the afterimages, meant to mostly throw off sensors and visual tracking for a split second. The energy used to quickly deploy and control said afterimages while also operating the WoL at full power is part of what makes it so energy intensive, as normally Phase-Shift Armor and Colloid Particles don't work well together, not to mention the control system needed to maintain the cloud density and shape for a moment.
SF's WoL on the other hand is supposedly tuned for longer continuous operation; instead of focusing it all in a massive burst the way Destiny does, it spreads out a more even field and can vary thrust in any direction, allowing for more immediate directional changes on the spot (moreso given how the wings are spread out rather than directed in any one direction like the Destiny).
That being said, Destiny does have an advantage in atmospheric combat since the directional thrust allows Shinn to focus the thrust and gain greater directional speed, but loses on maneuverability vs the SF (and the SF can't deploy its DRAGOONs in atmospheric conditions). On the other hand, Destiny is just straight-up outclassed in CQC against the IJ, which while not having any WoL, does have even more conventional thrusters all across its body for even more directional changes.
>SF's WoL on the other hand is supposedly tuned for longer continuous operation; instead of focusing it all in a massive burst the way Destiny does, it spreads out a more even field and can vary thrust in any direction, allowing for more immediate directional changes on the spot (moreso given how the wings are spread out rather than directed in any one direction like the Destiny).
This is a bunch of BS Destiny's WoL isn't faster that SF's WoL LMAO, Destiny gundam is just badly designed and still uses battery packs and the nuclear reactor just charges it
SF and IJ are specifically design to break the Junius Seven Treaty at the orders of Patrick Zala so it's main power source is the nuclear reactor it self and it can even power up the largest beam sabers in the verse which are the METEORS that slices a colony sized structure and doesn't suffer from low power warning like Destiny Gundam does
Destiny isn't badly designed the writer just hated shinn so they asspulled shit to make him job, tech be damned.
It is badly designed the MS relied 99% on its hand while the other 3 end game Mobile suits have better armaments/weapons
If you want to talk about badly designed then the SF is pretty dumb. Couldn't even use it's WoL without launching it's dragoons prior to the retcon that gave it that half deployed form.
It launches from space that's why it has Dragoons
It's pretty easy to change it's load out just like Akatsuki's flight pack in earth atmosphere and DRAGOON back pack in space if it actually deployed from Earth LMAO
>SF and IJ are specifically design to break the Junius Seven Treaty at the orders of Patrick Zala
The OG Freedom and Justice I mean
>This is a bunch of BS Destiny's WoL isn't faster that SF's WoL LMAO,
It is. The MG Extreme Blast and Gundaminfo both state that the Destiny Gundam has unparalleled or unmatched acceleration.
?t=57
>unmatched acceleration
There you go. Straight from a Sunrise official source.
Unmatched Acceleration =/= highest top speed ever
Unmatched Acceleration =/= best agility.
All acceleration meets is that the machine can reach its top speed quickly. Even if that top speed is slower than other machines. It also doesn't mean much if the unit can't turn well or has sluggish response time.
Strike Freedom is clearly more maneuverable than Destiny. The Destiny Gundam is heavier and more clunky since it only ever had to worry about fighting big mobile Armors.
>The Destiny Gundam is heavier
Strike Freedom weighs more
>Strike Freedom is clearly more maneuverable than Destiny
If anything what little we see of the two fighting shows the opposite
you're correct in that acceleration =/= speed. I don't they ever made a comparison as to how fast strike freedom is compared to destiny besides the mention of freedom's mobile frame. From their brief melee clash, they seemed on par using VL.
Thats just random adverb spillage
I'd like to jump in and point out that only Freedom/SF's railguns and Akatsuki's cannons are the only weapons that have optional triggers and the show alternates between whether they use them or not. All other weapons either clearly mounted with no manual trigger, or not, and Launcher Strike, Buster, Gunner Zaku, GINN Ion cannon and anything else with a similar set up always have to fire it handheld and not while mounted, even if they're drawing power from the backpack itself. Since Destiny is also consistent with this, regardless of how it gets power there's no real reason to think it can fire hands free when it never does in show beyond wanting the "Destiny sucks because it needs it's hands" meme to go away.
Even in BF Try where it uses the rifle and cannon at once it always uses it's hand to fire it, although the cannon remains in place at one point when the hand lets go to block, suggesting there is some mount somewhere, though not a very sturdy one because with one light hit it gets knocked off and is gone for the rest of the bout.
>I'd like to jump in and point out that only Freedom/SF's railguns and Akatsuki's cannons are the only weapons that have optional triggers and the show alternates between whether they use them or not. All other weapons either clearly mounted with no manual trigger
This is just a blatant lie. I don't know why you are obsessed with the idea. Either you are lying because you are upset other anons proved you incorrect, or you just haven't done enough research into Seed but don't want to admit it.
Just let it go anon.
Why are YOU so obsessed with the idea that it can? The fact that it never does once in 2 shows and not doing so costs Shinn his last fight matters way more than "Well he probably can he just never does because reasons"
>I'd like to jump in and point out that only Freedom/SF's railguns and Akatsuki's cannons are the only weapons that have optional triggers and the show alternates between whether they use them or not.
What is the point if your are making 3 exceptions for 3 different suits? It not really a rule anymore.
You are also forgetting about Blast Impulse and Savior Gundam. They alternate between hands free, and supporting the cannon with their arms. There's also that custom Guaiz with railguns. If we include the Seed video games, we also have stuff like the Buster Dagger running around in the games anime cut scenes firing with and without using the handles on the guns. It seems like handles are more for extra support if anything.
I've already given up. Frickhead proved me wrong. Shut the frick up about this. I don't want to hear it anymore. This whole show is shit anyway. Go talk about an actual good Gundam or something.
Frick it I hate all of you
Idly, I kind of wish the "Strike" Calamity was a thing, rather than having fixed equipment variants.
Has there been an official release of the "Perfect Calamity"? The Aile Calamity model teased that the giant jet engines can equip up to 4 cannons, or 2 cannons and 2 sword holders on it.
My problem with Destiny is that it needs its hands to use its weapons, except for the vulcans.
SF, IJ, Legend, and Akatsuki have non-vulcan weapons that don't require to be hand-operated.
There's guys earlier in the thread claiming based off the technical specs and what not that Destiny can fire it's cannon without a hand, though the meltdown guy is correct that it never does that in the show even when it logically should have.
It's pretty funny that you could improve the Destiny's loadout without changing the actual design at all simply by making the beam boomerangs remote weaponry that Shinn could control as funnels once launched, and making the beam launcher akin to the Buster or Strike Freedom's weapons, with the launcher capable of firing a lower power shot using one barrel unaided or higher power shot with both barrels connected but handheld.
IIRC, the beam boomerangs actually do use a lesser version of the DRAGOON system, which is why they return to the suit itself so consistently.
Yeah they use the Dragoon's quantum control system to redirect in flight which is how Shinn was able to pull off that trick where he almost sandwhiched Akatsuki between two of them and also how they kept returning despite Athrun kicking them off to the side. They're not true Dragoons however as they aren't self propelled and need to get their momentum from being thrown.
>making the beam launcher akin to the Buster or Strike Freedom's weapons, with the launcher capable of firing a lower power shot using one barrel unaided or higher power shot with both barrels connected but handheld.
I mean that would be a cool trick but why would it need that when it has a regular beam rifle for lower powered shots?
Why does anyone ever need 2 guns when they could just use 1?
My impression is that Destiny could fire its cannon hands-free, but grabbing the gun provides better accuracy. Seems like common sense. I don't see why it spawned a massive argument in the thread.
Because it brings the "Destiny is useless without hands" meme into question.
The "Destiny is useless without hands" argument is pointless anyway because there's never a time that any other SEED MS loses both arms but keeps fighting. If you've managed to lose both arms, you're clearly losing the fight regardless of whether or not you still have any other weapons left, because losing even one arm is extremely hard and losing both without getting shot down in the process requires doing something as immensely moronic as trying to catch a beam saber with both of your bare hands.
Shinn lost because he's a shit pilot who could only beat Kira when he had dozens of hours of very specific training for that very specific fight drilled into his head, and the element of surprise, and he still got most of Impulse's parts wrecked in the process. His unga bunga approach only worked in the Impulse against the Extended because they were even shittier pilots. Destiny had everything it needed to engage the Infinite Justice on equal footing, except for a pilot who wouldn't choke.
The Extended were pretty embarrassing.
Sting jobbing to grunt suits is just pathetic. And did Auel do anything worthwhile?
>because there's never a time that any other SEED MS loses both arms but keeps fighting
Providence did and still fought with it's remaining Dragoon's, although Rau was clearly on the losing end of the fight by then.
>The "Destiny is useless without hands" argument is pointless anyway because there's never a time that any other SEED MS loses both arms but keeps fighting.
I believe Gaia Gundam and Chaos Gundam lost both arms. They kept fighting for a bit. Gaia was defeated, and Chaos ended up running away.
It can't.
Destiny's cannon is hand-operated.
According to mr c**t Japanese reader techspecs above it connects to the backpack and that means I am wrong. And so are you. All hail the fricktard
Hand-operated =/= hand-carried.
The cannon is connected to the MS but still needs to be fired by the MS' hand.
The trigger is optional. Everything is handled by software anyway.
Destiny needs to manually fire the cannon. Same as a hand-held beam rifle.
>Provide source that Destiny can fire its cannon without pulling the trigger.
Alright. But first, make a Cinemaphile tripcode username right now. And with that tripcode, post that you will apologize and admit you are a "Gundam loser" to everyone in this thread...if a source can be provided.
Provide source that Destiny can fire its cannon without pulling the trigger.
>Provide source that Destiny can fire its cannon without pulling the trigger
Like other anon said. The books say the Destiny cannon is based on the same cannon technology as Blast Impulse. And Blast Impulse can fire its guns without a handle. It's optional. So it's safe to assume the same applies.
If I'm not allowed to assume neither are you.
DUMB FRICK
Your assumptions have zero evidence and are just random. You were the fool that assumed Destiny's cannon detached when it fired. How stupid. Have you even LOOKED at a Destiny Gundam model kit before? Even a picture of it posting with the cannon. You can see it clearly attached.
The evidence is that Destiny is always shown manually firing the cannon in the anime (and video games).
Not specific enough. "Based on the same technology" does not mean it's exactly the same.
Destiny has yet to be shown not manually firing its cannon.
It's time you admit you were wrong about the backpack.
Has Destiny fired its cannon without holding it?
It can't. It's a handheld folding cannon.
I already fricking did you shit c**t
That anon can't. There is no visual proof and there is no text specifically stating that it is optional.
Mandated Coordinator wives when?
Had ZAFT won, they would have hit a dead end breeding each other. They would have started breeding camps where captured naturals are forcibly spermjacked or impregnated all day, every day. Even free naturals, unable to find jobs elsewhere because of inevitable ZAFT policies ruining their careers, would've been forced to work in the reproduction industry and have unprotected, babymaking sex with bajillions of coordinators every day to make a living.
Shinn should have ditched the cannon completely and carried one of these. No way that Justice could cut through it easily.
Athrun would just easily chop off Destiny Gundam's hands instead LMAO
NTA but Shinn could have won that exchange if he had simply used his beam saber boomerangs (in sword mode) instead of using the slow and clunky AS sword. The AS sword is meant for cutting through chunky mobile Armors. It's not for dueling other suits.
hahaha, no those boomerangs just like a daggers and far from the size of an actual beam sabers
The Legend only lost because of Talk no Jutsu. It was holding up just fine against Kira & Strike Freedom.
Rey was only delaying the inevitable by shaking Kira up slightly by revealing his connection to Rau. He was never gonna win that fight. Kira had already defeated the superior version of him in a very similar suit with the same strategy and even if Legend was slightly superior to Providence Kira already knew exactly what and what not to do (ditch the Meteor, shoot the Dragoons first) from his previous fight.
Maybe if someone else piloted Legend they might have stood a better chance, but Rey was never going to defeat Kira.
It's not that Rey lost. It's the ridiculousness of Kira's win. Rey couldn't shoot down a single Strike Freedom Dragoon? Not one. Rey had more Dragoons and each of them could fire multiple beams at the same time. While SF had less Dragoons and they could only shoot a single beam. I didn't expect Rey to win, but he didn't land a single hit on Strike Freedom. That's insane.
Strike Freedom looks absolutely ridiculous missing dragoon which probably played a part in it. It's one of the most all or nothing funnel based suits in the franchise.
>I am Bad!
>Well, how about you don't?
>Oh jeez, I didn't think about it that way...
Good arc there, Rey.
>that life yours!
>he commits suicide right after this
What did Fukuda mean?
(from an interview with Fukuda in the Destiny Roman Album)
>What did you think while Rey was shooting?
I think it was something along the lines of "I can't help it." It surprises him, but at the same time he thinks it's a sign of fate.
>What's going through Rey's head while he's shooting at him?
I think Rey was trying to protect Durandal, until he walks into his office. Even though Kira's words resonate within him, he knows he has to protect Durandal. Just with the last exchange of lines, he points at Durandal. He himself is surprised. Kira must be killed, but it is not Rau's or Durandal's choice, it is Rey's. As the creator, I wanted to give Rey the choice here. Kira, Rey and Rau are polar opposites, but I wanted to leave that privilege to Rey, who carries a much heavier tragedy on his shoulders than Kira.
>So in the end Rey chooses the world of Kira.....
Rey wants a world that has a tomorrow. The world is what it is, and he thought Durandal was right, but there is still hope, as long as there is a tomorrow.
literally what the actual frick did Fukuda mean here?
That Rey, after spending the whole walk through Messiah thinking about what Kira said to him, changed his mind at the last second.
They weren't edgy enough. Legend got close with its serial designation. You would think they would call it something more biblical. Providence had that divine motif, so precedence was there. I understand it has a rather nice poetic connection for Rey since a legend is 'coming from a murky past', I just find the name somewhat underwhelming.
I am very biased though. I love the name Providence and the Providence Gundam. And Rau. Just bring Rau back for the movie.
>And Rau. Just bring Rau back for the movie.
He's not just dead. Every single atom of his body was vaporized in the Genesis blast. The best you're going to get is if Fukuda is lazy enough to put a third Al Da Flaga clone in the movie. Yes, I know about Astray's Prayer Reverie, and that theory that Neo is a clone too.
Also, I don't get what people see in Rau. I've heard about the English dub, but the character itself is a terrible fricking villain. He had no motivation for acting mysterious until the very end. He wasn't Kira's foe for most of it, but Mwu's.
He's very handsome.
I almost guarantee another Da Flaga clone will be in the film just as an excuse to get the whole cast back together if nothing else
Honestly, I'd prefer Al himself to appear.
If you're going to samegay then at least leave more time between your posts, and put effort into your masquerade.
Can't speak for the other three posts but
is just me.
I don't understand the issue here. Why is it so strange to infer that Destiny can fire the cannon without manually holding onto it? Why does it matter?
Does some sort of bigger argument fall apart if it's true?
I've never Destiny Gundam fire the cannon without supporting it, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. It's not really a huge leap. People used to say that Infinite Justice couldn't use its claw shield until it was shown in the remaster.
Like other anons pointed out there are ton of mobile suits that don't always hold their larger cannons when firing them.
So what's the problem here? It's not a big deal.
There's been these two guys who have for years insisted 'the Destiny is useless without its hands'. It's been a common, recurring event in threads discussing the Destiny unit.
My question is "why is that relevant in the first place?".
By and large, mobile suit weapons across the Gundam franchise have been handheld. The most common exceptions are Guncannon-style shoulder cannons and bits/funnels. You can assume that any amputated MS is a combat kill at least.
>My question is "why is that relevant in the first place?".
Because people here really, really wanted Shinn to win his final battle with Athrun, so when he lost after getting both arms destroyed, they latched onto the idea that it was a design flaw of the Destiny that failed him.
I wanted Athrun to win and I still think the Destiny is inferior to SF, IJ, Legend, and Akatsuki.
One anon (or a few)has been claiming for years that Destiny Gundam is totally useless without its arms. If it turns out the cannon can be fired without the arms, then it ruins his entire meme. He tried to argue earlier in the thread by saying that Destiny detaches its cannon from its backpack when firing, but was proven wrong by the databooks. Then he said the cannon was powered by the Handplug, but again was proven wrong by the databooks.
Now he's just grasping at any straw he can. I know it's petty to us outsiders, but these autistic anons take their /m/echa memes very seriously. They laugh about their memes, but if some random person suddenly challenges them or proves them wrong, then their autism can't let it go. Its like their brain has an itch it can't scratch. They must be right or else everything falls apart. That's why he's so desperate about Destiny Gundam's cannon.
People need to defend their canon for their fanfiction rewrites.
That being said, for all intents and purposes, Destiny IS useless without its hands. The majority of its weapons are hand-held or hand-tossed. It's beam shields are on the back of the hands. And the cannon may sling itself forwards without assistance (it even does so in multiple repeated scenes), but it has no left/right directional control without the hand to aim it, regardless of whether or not it could fire electronically, meaning that the Destiny would still have to maneuver its torso to aim it.
And in the battle against Athrun, Shinn would still lose as Athrun would be going to slice up the barrel given how close they were.
NTA. My impression is that Destiny's cannon probably could sling itself forward and fire. But it's probably slower at tracking targets and less accurate. The handle is there for manual aiming when the pilot wants to be precise. We saw it in earlier episodes of both Seed and Destiny that manual targeting is much more accurate than letting the computer to automatically target for you. Seed Ace pilots often prefer to use manual targeting. That's all I have to really say on the subject. Its not that big a deal to me.
Whew. My autism is secure then. Shinn is shit and so his his Gundam.
We all know it's you, Kaihedgie. Have the decency to get a tripcode so everyone here can filter your pointless Shinn hatred/Kira simping.
And yes, it is pointless, because I hate the dumb brat too (I hate every single character from CE except Natarle, Sven and The Professor), but I don't make my whole identity around it.
One of the posts is mine. Try again.
>Picks the worst choices
Lol. Kira the GOAT lives rent free in your brain, b***h!
Whether it's Kaihedgie or not, he's already proven his hypocrisy regarding his anti-UC mindset when he simps for the Delta Kai, which is a UC suit.
>doctor lady with glasses, b***h face and sex hair
I am cum
Because Seed Destiny has driven people insane. They've been having the same fights online about stuff, Is Shinn or Kira better, did Shinn really defeat Kira or did he cheat and it doesn't count, was Durandal really the bad guy or did Kira just ruin his legit attempt to bring world peace that would have been a perfect utopia because Kira wrongfully assumed he attacked him once, did Morosawa have brain cancer and sabotage the show because she had a personal vendetta against several VAs, etc etc. For decades now, and these fights have gotten very ugly and personal at least one time into a literal fist fight at a con because two forum goers found out they were there.
It's crazy. I don't think any Gundam series has a crowd this divided against another.
>Because Seed Destiny has driven people insane.
You want to know the level of insanity? This post right here:
This kind of individual acts like the story was a real event with hypothetical alternative outcomes, rather than a fictional world that only exists at the whim of the writer. It's chunni-like, and a complete embarrassment to anyone older than 15.
And knowing what we know about Destiny's production and Fukuda's storytelling from interviews and the like, there is no way that he and Morosawa would ever allow Kira and Athrun to lose to that impetuous kid who worships the well-polished incarnation of evil that's Durandal.
I noticed that those cannons with both manual and non-manual firing modes have handles that are stored internally.
Destiny's long range cannon has an external grip.
You are overthinking it
So? Destiny has never fired its cannon without holding the grip.
I don't know why you people are blaming Shin for losing against Athrun. Destiny Gundam was charging in with its palm cannons and WoL activated. Athrun was surprised, but then Lunamaria decided to fly in front of Shinn. It caused him to hesitate. Then Athrun took advantage and shield bashed Destiny Gundam and knocked Shinn off balance. It was all Lunamaria's fault. She should have stayed out of it.
People who think Destiny's cannon can be fired without the MS itself pulling the trigger are moronic.
I don't care if Destiny can fire its cannon remotely or not. It's still a terrible MS.
Do the Freedom and Justice have chest vulcans? I know they are not listed in the armaments but they look like ports for guns.
Apparently that was a design frick up that made it into the official show design and they just rolled with it because Freedom does have obvious gun barrels in it's chest that never fire and aren't listed that made it into every iteration of it. Strike Freedom despite having an almost identical upper torso notably replaces them with more vents.
is it true that /m/ exists because of Gundam SEED Destiny
Kinda. The arguments got so heated when Gundam Seed Destiny was airing that even Cinemaphile said we were too spicy for them, and we needed our own board. Probably the only time in history where mecha fans ended up mind breaking Cinemaphile and they told us to go away and gave us our own board.
/m/ was created months before Destiny even started anon.
The Legend Gundam can literally pivot its Dragoons and use them as beam rifles. The Strike Freedom has golden phase shift skeleton, and shoot energy out of its wings. Infinite Justice has beamsabers everywhere, glows bright silver, and can ride its backpack like a surfboard...
...And you people are upset about Destiny Gundam being able to shoot a gun without a handle???
Wtf. Get your priorities straight.
Most of the speculation is saying that Kira would be piloting something that's underpowered due to being involved in a task force and something tells me that he only gets the new Freedom midway.
Destiny didn't even do the beam wreath trick Usso did by overlapping the Victory's WoL with its elbow beam shield emitters, imagine if the Destiny pulled that off with the emitters on the back of its hands and started punching MS with beam fists.
Destiny could always fire without holding the handle. Shinn just never chose to do it that way because he preferred to target snemies himself. Just like how Freedom Gundam had handles for the railguns but Kira hardly ever used them.
Did they ever show that?
Did the anime show Calamity Gundam flying in the show while on Earth? No. But the Gundam manuals and books says Calamity can do it. But it's extremely slow and can't keep up with Raider and Calamity while in atmosphere. So it rides Raider Gundam. Same logic with Destiny Gundam.
Anime > manuals/books.
Flying as in true flight or hovering?
Last I checked, Calamity is only capable of the latter.
>Flying as in true flight or hovering?
Not that anon but what's the difference? Hovering is like basic flying.
Hovering like a ground-effect (ekranoplan) or air-cushion (hovercraft) vehicle.
AFAIK, Calamity has only ever performed a thrust-assisted jump, and it did so when it was retreating from Orb after the drugs ran out, in order to get high enough for Raider to fly under it to land on.
The databooks say a lot of things. Not only can Destiny fire without holding onto its cannon. But another fun fact is that Raider Gundam's spiked rocket Mace supposedly is capable of smashing through phase shift armor.
There's a reason we almost always see Freedom's and Justice avoid taking a direct hit from the rocket Mace.
>The databooks say a lot of things. Not only can Destiny fire without holding onto its cannon. But another fun fact is that Raider Gundam's spiked rocket Mace supposedly is capable of smashing through phase shift armor.
Which specific databooks?