Will anybody in the future recommend HoX/PoX when it just led to hot air? Why didn't they let him do his thing? Wasn't Secret Wars popular?
Will anybody in the future recommend HoX/PoX when it just led to hot air? Why didn't they let him do his thing?
>HoX/PoX when it just led to hot air? Why didn't they let him do his thing? Wasn't Secret Wars popular?
Because secret wars and the years of avengers leading up to it led to hot air. 8 issues of doom wabk that ends with oh wait Richard's is better than me after lol
At the time Secret Wars was being used to sunset the F4 as an ongoing comic and brand because of the Ike Perlmuttee bullshit. If you view Hickman's grand plans across his work in that light it works really well. But of course time goes on and now Disney owns 51% of Hollywood so none of that stuff matters anymore and the F4 are back to being a core property.
As for the X-Men, no. No one will recommend anything X-Men related from AVX til now, and probably nothing after this until the MCU finally gets around to them and Marvel has to finally reset the brand back to a recognizable state (aka the 90s) and parity retcons away all the horrible bullshit from 2011-202X.
Bro it fricking sucked as an end to the ff. The only one who mattered was Reed, the rest were lost in the void we got alt versions who also didn't matter
MCU raped Marvel, really, so did Hollywood before that. Once the companies started catering to Hollywood it ruined what was making these comics good in the first place.
They need the manga model of just letting the artist do their thing and then coming by later and adapting it exactly as it is with little changes.
>just letting the artist do their thing
that isn't always the case. Editors have a lot of power and they don't always see eye to eye with the artist. But, honestly, something like that can't happen for the main Marvel continuity.
>Marvel has to finally reset the brand back to a recognizable state (aka the 90s)
Why do you think that this will work and make the X-Men recommendable?
Not him, but the 80s/90s was generally where the general structure of the X-men's weird assortment of teams came in, and it was done in a way that's easier for normies and beginners to digest.
You'd have the:
>A/Blue Team, usually consisting of the headliner mutants Marvel's trying to promote, what you'd call the "offense" team since they're more often actively roaming the planet searching for villains/threats to take with
>B/Gold Team, usually consisting of veterans mixed with fan favorites, and what you'd call the "defense" team since they're either responding to mutant specific threats or focused on protecting the Home Base, whether that's the X-mansion or Utopia or Krakoa or whatever
>X-Force/Black Ops, which is where you get the edgelords and anti-heroes teaming up to take care of extremely brutal or nasty missions that the rest of the X-men aren't supposed to know about
>New Mutants/New Gen, which is usually a title focused on the newer x-men's struggles, whether it's trying to navigate the contradictory advice of their elders or just dealing with X-men antics in their own fashion, often where Marvel introduces new characters to encourage fans to make their own OCs and stay invested beyond the soap drama lives of the A and B teams
And then the rest, which are usually an assortment of smaller titles and pet projects usually focused on a very specific part of the world/multiverse, stuff like Alpha Flight or Excalibur
And yes, as it stands, four mainline books and a bunch of extras is already quite a bloated line. But it's an assortment that worked better for the X-men since they're fricking bloated, and Marvel refuses to simply retire characters if they aren't just killing them off in big crossover events when they think nobody's looking. Compare that shit to like the 10 plus books in the current X-men lineup, where you might as well call it "X-men council" and "The Rest".
>8 issues of doom wabk
Good, all glory to Doom.
>that ends with oh wait Richard's is better than me after lol
That really pissed me off, Richards saying Doom knew he'd have done a better job. But you didn't, did you, Reed? You and your buddies kept fricking up and failed to save anything while Doom actually saved everything. So where do you get off acting all smug?
No one is going to remember or recommend anything that's happened to the X-Men in the last 15 years, it's the definition of soulless slop now
That's really depressing. Stuff like Dark Phoenix is how many years old and it's still as evergreen as when it came out. You can look at so many classic stories back then and they're all legends. Now stuff gets forgotten almost immediately.
Spurrier's X-Men Legacy was good.
Gillen's run had its moments.
Heck, Bendis had a decent ending for Uncanny, but then the editorial went with CYCLOPS BECAME HITLER, DUDE TRUST ME they backpedalled anyway in IvX.
Bendis scorched and salted the earth of the X-Men franchise. Also his interchangeable quippy dialogue (and Whedon bears some of the blame too) has destroyed any kind of unique character voice in every franchise he's touched
His run was shit, but the last issue was decent and could serve as a proper ending for Cyclops and the X-Men as the whole.
At least it served for me because everything afterward managed to be worse.
>Cyclops and the X-Men as the whole.
Nah, just Cyclops. I don't think he gave a shit about any other character, much like Fraction etc. You can't tell me he did any of the other 05 any favours
>Bendis scorched and salted the earth of the X-Men franchise.
Give me a break, anon.
The only time I ever see it mentioned is when someone's complaining about what he did to Jean and Iceman. What a legacy
also Remender's X-Force
Why dont they just keep Magneto as a villain? Why did they have to make him into a hero / anti hero? Now every fricking mutant act like they are fricking Magneto for some reason
This mutie pride shit is moronic
Marvel really, really wants X-Men to be a commentary for social justice no matter how fricking moronic it ends up being. So that's how ended up in the modern era where literally anyone pointing out that mutants are incredibly fricking dangerous and people are correct to be terrified of them are portrayed as strawmen bigots.
Not to mention it's okay when mutants want an ethnostate, but if you or I wanted one we'd be crucified
When Marvel inevitably resets the X-Men to the status quo, who do you want on the core team? For me, it's:
>Cyclops
>Jean Grey (Phoenix Force Optional)
>Wolverine (Keep Sniktfam Shit to a Minimum)
>Storm (No Goddess Crap)
>Rogue
>Beast (Restored to Old Self)
In my opinion, everyone else is just extra.
No Storm for the obvious reasons
I'd want one single X-Men team, no like five different versions of the team with Wolverine somehow on all of them.
>Cyclops - Leader
>Jean Grey
>Wolverine - Wolverinewank kept to a minimum
>Storm - YASQUEEN kept to a minumum
>Beast - Smart and gentle beast is back
>Nightcrawler
>Colossus
>Shadowcat - Waifuwanking kept to a minimum.
Then just have an X-Force full of darker heroes, maybe throw Psylocke, Rogue and Gambit in that one as they're pretty big and a New Mutants which is the New Mutants of the 80s mentoring a new team. Everyone else can go in limbo unless they guest star in a comic.
The problem is there's too many characters with new ones introduced all the time, which is I guess what decimation was trying in part to solve. The X-Men were the best when they were a minority, with high stakes and just a few well written characters to focus on. Claremont had the right idea that heroes should be cycled out gradually with new characters introduced to take over slowly.
I don't think there's a way to get back to glory days in the current lay of the land
I think Marvel will most likely just pick the most well-known characters to the general audience which in this case is:
>cyclops
>wolverine
>storm
>jean grey
>nightcrawler
>shadowcat
>beast
>rogue
For me it's
>whatever
because the X-Men will stop being interesting when they resetted, and the team will be probably overdone, and some boring pretictable shit
Scott, Jean, Bobby, Hank, Nightcrawler, X-23, Forge (for IBUILTTHESOLUTIONLOL nonsense when needed). Shadowcat, Synch or Jubilee as junior members. Bishop because frick you he’s based
I prefer Wolverine solo tbh, I like Laura better on a team.
>Scott
>Bub
>JEEEEEEAAAAAAN
>Storm
>Rogue
>Beast
>Colossus/Nightcrawler/Angel (I think anything beyond 7 is too much so I couldn't decide on one)
>Will anybody in the future recommend HoX/PoX when it just led to hot air?
Yes, it's still great as a standalone story. Even if it's storytelling potential was never realized. And his following X-Men issues and X of Swords were good too.
>Why didn't they let him do his thing?
I think having a vision like that and wanting to tell a sort of concise story is probably incompatible with monthly big two comics. Like, if it were just him and say, Ewing and another guy or something, they could pull it off. But it's big business, and they have to spin it off into a vast ecosystem of dozens of books with various writers watering it down. Becomes a bit of a lifeline to Marvel publishing and the story as created is jettisoned to just let it ride. He wraps it up in a half hearted, truncated way, and they get some jobber brainlet to continue it.
Haven't read the X-Men in years but seems like they need to focus more on smaller stories and eaze up on the social justice angle with the mutants. Did Hickman bring any out there scifi concepts to the book? Because I think leaning into that and more superheroics would benefit the X-Men too.
Yes, it was all sci-fi concepts which made it interesting. I mean besides the broadly 'they want to kill us and we're gonna stop 'em'
>Will anybody in the future recommend HoX/PoX when it just led to hot air?
really depends on two factors
1 how good Fall of X will be as Pay off Krakoa and all the events
2 will Krakoa shit be over when Fall of X is done or will it just be more Krakoa junk
>Will anybody in the future recommend HoX/PoX
Of course. It might be polarizing some loudgays, but it's certainly is something memorable and notable
It's not even the first time they have done this
requesting Beast kino.
I actually read HOXPOX for the first time last week after not having read any X-Men in over 10 years. It’s a really good story, there’s just too much loreslop wiki articles jammed into the pages, and the far future story is boring until it wraps up. I knew going in it was leading to no ending but I liked it a lot
There's some good runs and stories. It's not all great but I can see some series being recommended in the future. The problem is that Marvel didn't want Krakoa to end anytime soon. So it's dragged out and milked.
Worst thing about Krakoa is that its just fricking segregation island AGAIN. How many times have we done this?
I need to a tldr on this. Did they undo everything Hickman did? Because I'm not a mutant fan, but I do enjoy Hickman and have been thinking about trying his mutant stuff.
No, they just abruptly stopped building to what he was building to. So, a lot of the intentionally strange character moments Hickman put in to signify that the mutants might not be in the right, that Cyclops and Charles might be lunatics etc., got washed away, and the Krakoa stuff is basically mutants dindu nuffin don’t ask questions
Ugh...so it all built to nothing. That's a shame. But not surprising for Marvel I guess.
Marvel also pussed out because Hickman's plans by now would have pushed the X-men out of the honeymoon phase of Krakoa, but the editors saw how much excitement from the fans there was so outright told him his plans were being cancelled and they were extending the current Krakoa status quo. Greed screwed over the momentum of a storyline yet again, although considering it's Hickman, whether it'd have been any more interesting an ending than the current state of nothing nobody knows.
>No, they just abruptly stopped building to what he was building to.
Has Hickman said somewhere what his original plans were?
What's the deal with Wolverine. He was in 50 comics a month like Batman is now. And it seems like since they brought him back from being "dead" no one gives a shit about him anymore? His series seems to be very lackluster and not selling much and he's not really found much in other books.
logan suffers from being like the only character whose diversity replacement was actually well received. and then people liked Old Man Logan when he was brought in to be the male Wolverine alongside the female. When Logan came back, people were just like “eh, okay i guess” because his replacements weren’t car crashes like many other heroes
>logan suffers from being like the only character whose diversity replacement was actually well received
Because his fans secretly always wanted to be able to jerk off to him without feeling like a homosexual. With Laura now they can.
I like Laura as a character but I'll be long dead before I accept her as Wolverine.
Morrison swapped his personality with Scott's back around 2000 so he's been on a gradual decline ever since
>Morrison swapped his personality with Scott's back around 2000
You don't seriously think that, do you?
That's literally what happened. Scott went from "X-Men don't kill!" nag/boyscout to le edgy 'means justify the end' after one writer. Logan became the contrarian voice of reason counterpoint and Scott got to be edgy and run around with Frost on his arm
But those developments both made sense: Scott seeing his boyscout ways fail again and again pushing him to extremes, Logan seeing his life of brutality and violence going nowhere and seeking a different path.
Actually Scott's excuse was his mind meld with Apocalypse. I'm just saying it was a clearly planned shake up and role reversal, and most male readers apparently want to see themselves as the anti hero, so it makes sense that Cyclops stock would rise as Logan's plummeted
Yeah, I know the in-story reason, but I think the role reversal makes perfect sense taking those characters' entire comic histories. BECAUSE Scott has always been an uptight by-the-book. butthole I can see him snapping, while "great warrior puts down his sword and preaches peace" is an old trope that's a perfect evolution for Logan.
I agree honestly. It's just weird those two and a couple of others are allowed to evolve while everyone else is stuck in character limbo or skinwalker hell
Charles was supposed to be the Maker in disguise, right?
No. This was a stupid fan theory that lingered long past when Hickman himself refuted it. Xavier takes off his helmet in X-Men #4 and reveals that it's him, there's no hidden reveal or anything.
I don't think it was that stupid
>Charles decides he's a zionist all of a sudden
>Wears a mask that looks like the Maker's
>Gets into cloning and shit and creating his private utopia like Evil Reed did with the Children of Tomorrow
>Hickman loves Reed wank
It wasn't "all of a sudden", he was fed multiple lifetimes' worth of data from Moira that told him whatever he's trying never works, so he decided to do something new
no
Yep, just like Babylon in East of West was bby Maker
>I want X-Men to have more sex in it
I don't read Marvel but may I ask for a QRD as to why it's trash? Is this the Mutant orgy island book?
It's the prelude to Mutant Orgy Island, the one setting up that mutants supposedly eternally get their asses kicked unless they basically declare Xavier's dream dead and become supremacists for the sake of muties first
Well, I guess if the writers want to character assassinate everybody into being supremacists with an ethnostate, all the more reason to hate muties.
They are stuck on a shitty, self-contained island. Nothing happens. Death is irrelevant. Random forced drama, as if it's a reality tv show, happens and forgotten in a week because there's no long-term stories, no plans for the future, and no stakes. All the characters are flanderized versions of themselves or skinwalkers.
That's it. It's not even offensively bad, just boring garbage.