Wolverine might have been able to kill one or two if he caught them off guard, but the entire team? Come on. Cyclops could blast him into next week, Beast and Colossus could pull his legs off, Gambit could charge his own skeleton if he got stabbed, etc. The X-Men didn't have ONE telepath around to just turn his brain off during this? The fight lasted for several minutes at least, enough that he was out of breath.
It’s Mark Millar, he doesn’t care about power levels
Basically this
Just look at how the Marvel Zombies were set up
Wolverine can't die. He heals from everything. He can't be beat.
>He can't be beat.
>gets tossed into a body of water
>someone drops a car or something heavy on him, is rendered completely helpless unless someone pushes it off of him because no super strength
>gets tossed into space
>gets easily kept at arms length by those with ranged powers because his abilities are melee-only
Healing just means people with better powers and abilities can beat his ass longer. He's functionally the weakest out of any typical X-Men roster, and his popularity is the only thing keeping him relevant compared to people with more impressive powers like Cyclops or Gambit.
If Wolverine and Gambit fought, Wolverine would win ten times out of ten.
If they fought, it'd just be Gambit charging a bunch of shit and throwing it at Wolverine with Wolverine not being able to really do shit about it except trying to heal through the damage. In scenario that favors him where Wolverine is five feet away from Gambit, probably, but I don't know why you'd assume that Gambit would automatically lose, against anyone with any decent amount of ranged game, he's just going to get blasted and worn down if they're not fighting like an idiot.
People like to put up panels of him recovering from serious near-death damage, but he's been taken aback or even knocked out getting shot by guns. Healing isn't the same as being invincible, he's still getting blasted and blown the frick up.
Gambit can't beat Wolverine save for cheating (see UXM #273) and even then, Gambit's never been that powerful (his attacks do minimum damage, take time to charge, and Gambit's strength has always been that he's a moderately decent fighter who fights dirty).
Also, mid-00s X-Men were pretty well nerfed. Polaris's magnetism power is nowhere near Magneto's level and Emma never did much to fight Logan so she can't do much to fight him with psychic powers and Betsy's psychic powers were iffy at best.
And assuming Mysterio did his shit while everyone's guard is down mindraping Logan into killing the X-Men via illusion, Cyclops and Storm (the only two who could stand a chance against Logan) would be caught off guard and probably hold back once they realize Logan was being mind controlled and that costing them their lives.
Polaris still controls metal, even if she isn't as strong as Magneto, she can still at the very least stop Logan in his tracks
Havok is just as powerful as Cyclops and could just disintegrate the fricker
Cannonball's whole thing is being invulnerable
Nightcrawler could just teleport him into a wall. Kitty could phase him into a wall. It wouldn't kill Logan but it would slow him down long enough for them to figure out what happening.
Even nerfed, Iceman should be impossible for Wolverine to kill because the gay is living ice. It doesn't matter if you slice his head off, he can just make another body out of moisture
Doesn’t Wolverine’s healing factor heal his stamina, too? He could literally last for a day or two until Gambit passed out from exhaustion.
Gambit's Mana doesn't regen like logan's health. In a long battle of attrition, he either flees or dies.
>ice"hey I'm so horny for dicks and I can regen from a droplet of water"man
>dying to stab wound
whatever
gambit would be smart enough to be the first to a vehicle. we're talking about a guy who has a history in escape plans, gambit has run from problems more than wolverine runs towards them. gambit is more intelligent than wolverine
If Wolverine and Gambit fought, Gambit would've charged Wolverine adamantium skeleton and exploded him into dust
Anyways, here's how Wolverine would fair against his fellow x-men members
>Cyclops
At least in AoA his blast were able to destroy adamantium and cause unhealable damage to wolverine
>Storm
Killed him in X-Men forever by simply frying him into a crisp with lightning. Claremont wrote it so it IS canonically possible
>Rogue
Drains all his life
>Jean, Emma, Psylocke etc
Mindrapes him
>Kitty
Killed him in what if by leaving her hand stuck in wolverines brain
These all are just on top of my head
>If Wolverine and Gambit fought, Gambit would've charged Wolverine adamantium skeleton and exploded him into dust
gambit needs to be actively touching what he's charging. unless he's doing a mortal kombat fatality this isn't happening without gambit dying too. plus i think wolverine would just regen from this ngl.
depending how long it takes to charge something gambit and wolverine are stuck in a stalemate since his claws would let gambit touch his skeleton
also if gambits powers destroys the charged item it could maybe kill wolverine, didn't he die in one of the shitty ultimates comics because magneto deboned him then took the adamantium out of his bones?
>If Wolverine and Gambit fought, Wolverine would win ten times out of ten.
I mean literal sucker punch shit there
>If Wolverine and Gambit fought, Wolverine would win ten times out of ten.
Still proved anon wrong on that point, and don't act like Wolverine doesn't pull ambush shit either.
Wolverine didn't kill him because it was a training thing, saying "bang you dead" doesn't make it so, in a real fight wolverine would be slicing that homosexual up
In a "real fight", Wolverine would realistically be getting bodied a ton by people. Gambit can at least keep up with him in close combat if it ever gets to that point, at least long enough to capitalize on the use of his powers. Wolverine's only boons over Gambit are his metal-coated skeleton, claws, and healing factor, past that, he's not really offering anything in a fight that Gambit can't account for.
People talk about Hawkeye being useless or not bringing much to a team, but at least his trick arrows can accommodate for different circumstances and he's superhumanly accurate with his shots, but Wolverine is even more one-note than Hawkeye, his only real "advantage" over most other members of his team is that he doesn't pull his punches. Seriously trying to contrast him to other X-Men shows that he's pretty damn low on the totem pole if it weren't for the wank he got due to his popularity.
>Wolverine's only boons over Gambit are his metal-coated skeleton, claws, and healing factor
"Wolverine's only boons over Gambit are anything he would need to kill Gambit" in other words.
>gets tossed into a body of water
They're in a school, not at a beach.
>someone drops a car or something heavy on him, is rendered completely helpless unless someone pushes it off of him because no super strength
Even ignoring the fact that Logan does in fact have super-strength, and the fact that one car wouldn't be enough to take him out, I doubt the X-Men wanted to go tossing cars around their school full of children.
>gets tossed into space
None of the X-Men present were capable of doing that.
>gets easily kept at arms length by those with ranged powers because his abilities are melee-only
Logan has superhuman speed (albeit at low levels) that have allowed him to close such gaps in the past.
Old Man Logan doesn't diverge from 616. It's a completely alternate universe, ala Earth-1610.
Funnily enough, this has been walked back recently. Drowning no longer kills him, it just traps him in a loop of death and ressurection.
This isn't their plan to kill Spider-Man (nor is that even Spider-Man). This is just Hydra testing the believability of Mysterio's powers.
>Percy had him kill Jean
Hasn't Logan killed a Phoenix'd Jean like, a bajillion times? She's always been a glass cannon.
Your rewrite does work way better though.
>They're in a school, not at a beach.
Any sufficiently deep body of water is fine, it doesn't need to be an ocean.
>Even ignoring the fact that Logan does in fact have super-strength
He has comic book human strength, he's not lifting a damn car off of himself.
>None of the X-Men present were capable of doing that.
I was pointing out ways he can be beaten since that anon was blinded with Wolverine wank, you don't need to be Hulk-tier to beat Wolverine's ass, a bunch of mundane people have done so before.
>Logan has superhuman speed
Define "low level", he's been outpaced many times by people who don't have inherent superspeed.
>Ignoring that 2 omega mutants can make him immobile
more than a couple of these guys can frick him over whether he's healing or not.
Magneto would pwn his ass by making him stab himself a million times every hour for the next 100 years
he himself literally said he can drown and deathly afraid of deep water
>He can't be beat.
Gallium
I identify as an electrician and can confirm that's literally how that would work.
>Come on. Cyclops could blast him into next week,
No he couldn't
Look he just shoves off a full powered blast and gave cyclops a back hand
Wolverine has a history of being easy to brainwash.
He was brainwashed by Hydra, Apocalypse, the government. Must have made him susceptible to it
>The Twelve
Picking a page from the worst event of all the 90s shlock isn't doing your argument any favors.
>feet not firmly planted in ground
>hunched up on a bed post
You really cant see why he was sent flying?
>isn't doing your argument any favors.
course it does you have no real arguments beyond
>i hate it
Wolverinegays are as bad as Batwankers.
Prove me wrong.
>This is what 10 year olds believe
One of those bodies is Polaris, she has Magneto powers, she couldn't stop the guy with the metal skeleton?
I don't read Marvel comics. What's the context here?
Mysterio tricked Wolverine into killing the X-Men.
Wolverine killed all the X-Men
How the frick did he do that?
Doomtech
He made him think that the school was under attack by a bunch of villians, enough that he had to defend the kids himself so he gets quick on the skishkabubbing. Turns out as the villains were just x-men team members who were trying to calm wolverine down and were hesitant to just kill him (despite his healing factor). By the time he killed enough of them to be like "ok he just pulled Scott's head off let's stop trying to restrain him" there weren't enough strong xmen left to kill him.
Old Man Logan backstory, which itself rips off "Wanted" as far as the premise of Old Man Logan is Red Skull forming his own version of the Fraternity from that story with every villain in the Marvel Universe and them straight up killing off all of the major super-heroes save for Logan and Hawkeye.
Only way this would work is if Mysterio was also fricking with their perception, but if that was the case they would have fought each other too.
The real question here is that how did he kill Iceman here, that dude is actually unkillable
Iceman is only Omega level is some timelines
Old Man Logan diverges from 616 though.
Omega level doesn't mean anything
frick off krakoa troon
Not a direct divergence, any number of small changes could come through. The long and short of it is simply
>Millar
and trying to disect it further than handwavy type reasons is folly.
Yeah but Iceman can sometimes freeze the planet and stop time, but then goes down like it's nothing when the writer feels like it.
>ice man encases wolverine in ice
>wolverine put into a coma as he is constantly just repairing the brain damage caused by the lack of breathing holes in the ice
>ice man leisurely takes the block of ice to antarctica where wolverine will never thaw
>brags to everyone how he has wolverine dead to rights
drowning apparently is one of the few ways that wolverine can legitimately die, so i'm assuming that if iceman blocked wolverine he'd die from no air.
It would have made more sense for it to be Cassandra Nova, she's a strong enough telepath that she could feasibly trick everyone, prevent Xavier or someone from shutting Logan down, etc. And mean enough to make Logan do it instead of having them all forget to breath.
But I guess the whole gimmick was villian mixing, even though they just had Red Skull kill Captain America anyways.
Old Man Logan is garbage written by a talentless hack, news at eleven.
The master plan for killing Spider-Man is having dudes shoot at him
He has Spider-Sense and is fast enough to dodge bullets and leave after-images.
Get him in a closed space and fire enough at him and he can't physically dodge
>just shoot spider-man
Thats one of the dumbest ways to try and stop spider-man
>spider-sense warns him if you try to approach him
>super-reflexes so he can dodge the moment he sees or senses someone trying to fire at him
>acrobatic fighting style, wall crawling, and aforementioned agility means he can quickly take cover, throw off aim with erratic movement, or simply avoid open sight lines with ease
Only way you are actually going to negate his abilities is with a saturation weapon like a minigun or other rotary cannon that is designed to hit fleeting targets with small windows of opportunity to hit
And even then, Spidey would just decide to get serious and punch you with enough force to overturn a car or web up the gun and jam it
Still, that's how they did it. Lured him into a closed space and shot him
That still wouldn't work. Spidey is street level by choice, not by prowess.
Except it did, and it would. If he's stuck in a limited space and there's a high enough volume of fire, he can't avoid it because he doesn't have enough empty space to move his body to.
Diggin the stache on the right dude
>closed space
even harder to get a bead on a fast moving target
and at close range, its even easier for someone with a fist to just punch you before you can even draw
if you lure spider-man into a corridor where you intend to point fire, you also make it possible for him to just run up to you and punch you before you can react
and spidey has ranged weapons of his own, namely he can web guns shut or pull guns out of hands
and even if you had an entire fire team armed with M240s covering a single hallway, he would just take a different hallway or drop in from the ceilling and say "whatcha aiming at?" before styling on everyone
spider sense would probably pick up on the dead end. the entire thing is ignoring his precognition power
There's not always a way out, especially with innocents in danger to act as lure
you can't web up a firing fricking minigun you tard, it'd incinerate and blast away your webs easier than it does your bones
it has five times the tensile strength of steel, it will easily tangle up the motors
or simply use the webs to point it in a different direction
if an airburst munition is sensitive enough to be tripped by a regular human, then its going to be set off by passing near walls
an RPG is not very accurate, very cumbersome to aim, and you only get one shot
it was rated to hit a tank-sized target within 300m not a man-sized target manically swinging around the air
unless you are war machine with guns coming out his ass and computer assisted targeting and strong enough to tear webbing, then ever lots of guns will not be enough to defeat spider-man
Or just anything with airburst capability like cannon or grenade rounds that explode at a set distance or proximity, he could dodge the rounds themselves, but there would be too many bits of shrapnel for him to dodge at once. Just have those things rigged to an electronic firing system that can track him and he's dead meat.
or just any rpg at all. Good luck dodging a javelin.
A Javelin might be a bit too precise, unless you're shooting a bunch of them at once, saturating an area with shrapnel is a much better bet since he can't dodge everything at once.
1 javelin's enough to saturate an area, you can't run from an explosion that size
His sense would likely give him a heads up and enough time to respond, that's pretty much the only thing making it as simple as dropping a 500lbs. on him and calling it a day.
>if an airburst munition is sensitive enough to be tripped by a regular human, then its going to be set off by passing near walls
The more shrapnel in the air, the better, the point is that he can't dodge everything and closing off avenues of his escape.
>The more shrapnel in the air, the better
then spider-man stops the rounds by just putting up cover between him and the target
which he was going to do anyways because he is fighting a walking arsenal for some reason
>e point is that he can't dodge everything and closing off avenues of his escape.
firing off enough lead to hit spider-man would require far more dakka than even the punisher could carry
and he isnt just going to swing around in predictable arcs, but actively dodging and closing the distance with the target
simply shooting spider-man is ineffective
>then spider-man stops the rounds by just putting up cover between him and the target
And they'll just keep firing.
>which he was going to do anyways because he is fighting a walking arsenal for some reason
Which wouldn't be far out of the possibility for a high tech setting like Marvel, where supervillains can make death robots that can annihilate cities, so a paramilitary organization creating a walking arsenal shitting out artillery isn't out of the question.
>firing off enough lead to hit spider-man would require far more dakka than even the punisher could carry
Good thing the Punisher is just one guy and not a platoon or a killbot.
>and he isnt just going to swing around in predictable arcs, but actively dodging and closing the distance with the target
Not fast enough that he can't be tracked by an electronic fire control system and boxed in with sheer saturation.
>simply shooting spider-man is ineffective
Jesus, I thought the Wolverine wank in this thread was bad, now we got a Spider-Wanker.
>Jesus, I thought the Wolverine wank in this thread was bad, now we got a Spider-Wanker.
no, it is not wank to say that "just shoot spider-man" is not a good idea
its not a plausible solution for any regular human or even a group of trained humans
only super-powered individuals with ludicrous amounts of dakka like war machine would be able to defeat spider-man in this manner
but that requires a lot more super powers than just a gun
>no, it is not wank to say that "just shoot spider-man" is not a good idea
You're the one construing it as simply as "just shoot Spider-Man, I'm offering a very sound strategy that could work knowing Spider-Man's limitations.
>its not a plausible solution for any regular human or even a group of trained humans
Except it is, people get killed by shrapnel and high explosives far more than they do bullets in a typical combat environment.
>only super-powered individuals with ludicrous amounts of dakka like war machine
War Machine typically isn't carrying anything more than what a typical platoon would also be carrying, he just has the benefit of being able to fly and be reliably dodge or resist gunfire.
>but that requires a lot more super powers than just a gun
You're still simplifying things again, it's not "just a gun," it's a bunch of guns with the capability of reliably boxing him in with the sheer volume of projectiles exploding and him being unable to dodge all those bits capable of easily tearing into him.
Spiderman dies to a single bullet. Spiderman cannot run across a hallways faster than it takes a man to twitch his finger. A bunch of guys in a hallway can fill that hallway with more bullets than there is even available space to dodge.
A bunch of guys in a hallway stomp Peter and it’s not even close. He’s been hit by bullets and people firing just way too much before. Pumpkin bombs alone have schreked him.
Aren't pumpkin bombs just grenades?
No.
(Their explosives are way too fricking weak to be grenades, they’re more like bootleg fireworks)
Basically, with the way they're usually displayed, they're no better than a typical high explosive grenade.
The movies even had ones that can vaporize guys to dust.
You’re severely underestimating Spider-Man. The dude is fast.
He's as proportionally fast as a spider. Anything else is out of context bullshit or a singular writer not understanding physics/what they're writing.
And proportional speed of a spider is not fast enough to cross a hallway before someone twitches their finger
how long is the hallway?
long enough that there are people fading into background behind them. And a whole army behind Peter. Peter's dead, there's literally nothing he can do against bullets coming from every side.
ok
unless he's kitty pryde, he can't beat saturation + small box
Wait did we finally get the story of how pete had a family in old man Logan?
must be nice to post stuff out of the context, brah
Unironically, if it was like a Life-Model decoy or a like android I might take Mysterio up on that. Way to get out violent impulses without actually doing anything wrong.
Yeah, this scene only works if Mysterio was just being an butthole and twisting the knife. Maybe if the other villains were wiping out the major hitters like cyclops or storm, and Wolverine was just massacring the people not on the front lines like the students or less powerful mutants this might work. But him kill the entire team? Bullshit. Even Kurt could teleport him into solid rock, or Canonball blast him into the stratosphere and let him drop, there no chance in hell he lasts going toe to toe with the team. Millar’ own Enemy of the State showed that the other heroes were mostly worried about Wolverine’s expert stealth and willingness to kill, but could take him in straight fight. But that was Pre-Civil War Millar, back when editors could reign in his dumber ideas.
>It's an alternate universe with unconfirmed powerlevels.
>It was less of Wolverine Vs The X-Men and more of Mysterio Vs The X-Men and Wolverine was just the lone survivor due to friendly fire.
Did they explain that the X-Men were holding back
Since they didn't want to hurt wolverine
Which is so dumb, because surely, SURELY they know they can fricking skeletonize him and he will come back.
The idea that they didn't immediately turn to operation: turn him inside out he will heal later anyway after like the second fatality is insane.
You'll never see Luffy do this to his own crew.
Rule number 1 of stories with alternate timeline, the hero who survived 1000 deaths suddenly dies like a piece if shit because there's no plot armor, I don't know why authors still think it's a good take to remind us so blatantly that there's no stake in their story.
And that's not just Millar. Too many writers wank Wolverine.
Percy had him kill Jean because she tried to fight him physically instead of using her powers.
This would be so easy to fix, if only writers and editors weren't so obsessed with Logan being the ultimate top dog / alpha male.
>kills Jubilee
>Jean was just nearby and can't react in time because she feels Jubilee dying in her head
>Jean's death gives a psychic backlash to the other X-Men
>Logan manages to kill a couple of them in the confusion before being stopped
>immediately, Sentinels and Reavers attack while the X-Men are physically and mentally wrecked
This way, Logan is still responsible of the X-Men's death and that plus having killed Jean and Jubes himself is enough to mind break him
>obsessed with alpha / dog
writers do this shit with cyclops too. cyclops and wolverines girlfriends literally only exist as girlfriends, they have no independent stories. the phoenix is always involved with cyclops, it's powerful enough to be an antagonist completely on its own but it isn't
it's wolverine wanking. he has his own oversaturation trope. this is yet another example of wolverine being an overrated character
>storm and cyclops are the only ones
wrong. it was already stated in the OP but i guess it has to be said again. there are ways to kill wolverine. shadowcat could just phase something in his brain stem, super strength from beast or colossus could dismember him, anyone with strong enough energy projection could at the very least knock him unconscious, forge has advanced weaponry, iceman could freeze him solid, Longshot can evade even spider-man
This also suggests that Mysterio's special-effect powers could fool Wolverine's enhanced senses. It should have gone like this: "Mysterio does his thing. Wolverine takes a big sniff -- and then guts Mysterio."
Has any ever done a "omg le villains get serious and organized" edgelord story and had them get stomped by the heroes? Like I know it's basically every JLA beats Legion Of Doom story but in the edgelord style?
Don't forget JUBILEE out of all characters lasted the longer...
If anything, she would have been dead in seconds.
she lasted longer because the others were bigger threats that had to be taken out first (which begs the question of why a story exists where wolverine wins at all, let alone defeating mutants in a particular order)
wdym "bigget threats"?
I am talking about how she put more of the fight... for some reason.
Mysterio tricking Wolverine enhanced senses was dumb by itself, but fricking JUBILEE being able to survive for 90 mins against rampaged Wolverine is just different level of BS
Might have messed with his perception of time as well.
This is the only possible explanation outside of "Mark Millar takes "this line is soooo edgy and cool" over the quality of writing"
what if mysterio also affected wolverine's sense of time?
My headcanon is that Mysterio's illusion affected all the X-Men, not just Logan. So they were all killing each other in one big battle royale. Mysterio just told Logan he was the sole perpetrator of the crime to mess with him, because Mysterio is a lying frick.
You'll never see Goku do this to the Z-Fighters...
It's just Wolverine wanking Anon. Annoying but just the writers being lazy as usual.
Man that's awful
- Frick Multiverse bullshit
- Frick goregays
- Frick edgelord Millar
I too am vastly tired of "Look! Everybody DIES!" stories. I'm just tired of watching these characters die over and over again, it's not fun it's sad.
people rightfully talk about the Wolverinewank going on here, but not nearly enough is said about the Mysteriowank. No way in hell does he have the fricking power, talent, smarts etc etc to convince Logan he was fighting bad guys and was strong enough to beat these fricking heavy-hitting (some almost near-immortal) X-Men.
Yeah this is bs
Cyclops, Storm or Jean could put him down easy
Iceman is another level of bs. Wolverine should not even be able to do anything to him even if Iceman was caught off guard. He could just stand there taking Wolverines claws and slowly lower temperature until he froze
>cyclops
nope
>jean
nope again
In my headcanon, Mysterio was casting illusions on all of the X-Men, so they all thought they were fighting against villains and they were all killing each other, Wolverine just happened to be the last man standing. It's the only way this makes any sense.
Popularity rule, the most popular cannot die.