The eagles couldn't give less a frick about mankind. They only ever came because of gandalf. Also, maybe the ring would have an effect on the eagles? I mean beasts are clearly drawn to it, balrogs, the watcher in the waters, etc.
Gandalf is essentially an Angel. He's there to lend a helping hand when it's needed most, but "God" in LOTR wants men to solve their own problems and will only intervene if they've given it 100% and still need a little help
the eagles refused to get too involved as it was not their fight
same reason the elves did not just steamroll the entire path up to the mountain
the crisis of middle earf needed to be solved by its own people
if he really wanted, Glorfindel (who was incorruptible) could have single handedly marched from rivendell all the way up to the mountain on his own, killed anyone in sauron's army, killed all of the ring wraiths, killed saruman, killed sauron, and dropped the ring into the lava
he was pretty much a god, unrestrained by any rules unlike gandalf and saruman, and much stronger than sauron in his weakened state
the eagles had to fly over to Valinor and ask Manwe to put in a petition to Eru to allow them to interfere and rescue Gandalf
its why they took so long to save him
its all explained in the burger king tie-in comic to the second movie, written by christopher tolkein's nephew
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>the eagles had to fly over to Valinor and ask Manwe to put in a petition to Eru to allow them to interfere and rescue Gandalf
That is not in the books, as you admit yourself.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
it doesnt matter, its in the cannon and its what john would have wanted
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>its all explained in the burger king tie-in comic to the second movie, written by christopher tolkein's nephew
i assume it was written in crayon, with lots of illustrations
Ring not only has transitive properties, it influence environment miles away from it. Nobody gives credits to Frodo, but everyone thinks ring is not as powerful as it is only because how good-hearted and strong-minded Frodo was.
Eagles would 100% steal the ring and they only agreed to fly close to Mordor after Sauron was killed. His eye would literally just fry them alive.
Boromir got affected without ever touching it directly
This. I don't think people realize how resistant Hobbits are to evil. Remember when Pippin grabbed the Palantir he was able to hold it and struggle against it for a good long while, but when Aragon attempted to snatch it off him to save him he immediately lost control and collapsed?
In the novels Aragorn keeps the Palantir and uses it to scope the land - as well as to show himself, the heir of Elendil, to Sauron and provoke him to hasty action. He uses his Numenorean god-blood to wrestle with Sauron and win, something Gandalf is afraid to attempt.
>man with ring: imma go become the next dark lord and rule the world! >hobbit with ring: i'll make a nice garden, maybe grow a big pumpking or something
>. I don't think people realize how resistant Hobbits are to evil.
It's not resistance to evil. There are certainly hobbits who are openly selfish & petty, like the Sackville-Baggins'. The One Ring doesn't corrupt hobbits as quickly because they are simple & humble, as opposed to the race of men & elves, who are arrogant.
In the book Sauron thinks Pippin is a sorcerer and one of his servants when he takes the palantir and it just sort of confused why this wizard is so moronic. Gandalf even thanks Pippin, saying if he had grabbed it he may have been corrupted or destroyed. Book Gandalf is both 100% more cantankerous and 100% more forgiving.
>. I don't think people realize how resistant Hobbits are to evil.
It's not resistance to evil. There are certainly hobbits who are openly selfish & petty, like the Sackville-Baggins'. The One Ring doesn't corrupt hobbits as quickly because they are simple & humble, as opposed to the race of men & elves, who are arrogant.
This is correct. Being simple and innocent folk makes them harder corrupt. On top of that Frodo and Sam especially are good hearted even among Hobbits. The only thing the ring can tempt Sam with is a really cool garden in his backyard.
Nah, he thinks Pippin is Saruman's prisoner and commands him to tell Saruman to hurry up and deliver him to him so that he, Sauron, can torture the shit out of him. "This dainty," he calls Pippin through Pippin's own mouth.
Probably lots of butt stuff, cuz evil guys unironically love that shit.
Sam was too moronic and loyal to Frodo to take the ring for himself, he carries it for a bit and is tempted to just keep it when he find out Frodo is still alive but he is too pure hearted to betray Frodo.
If I remember the book correctly the ring shows Sam the power he would have with it and it's just a big garden. He overcomes it by remembering he has that already back home.
Once Frodo arrives at Rivendell, melt down his mithril armor and encase the ring in a block of mithril. Then put Frodo and Gandalf on an eagle, fly over to Mount Doom, drop it in. There is literally no argument why they shouldn't have done this.
Sam is the real hero and he doesn't get nearly enough recognition. He gets some clapped out bar bawd whilst Frodo goes on a cruise with elven nymphs to literally another dimension.
Sam becomes mayor of the shire, has a bunch of kids, and then goes to hang out with Frodo after he dies. If anything he winds up with the best of all worlds.
Frodo is the hero because he lets Gollum live which is how the ring is ultimately is destroyed. If it was in Sam's hands he would have killed Gollum and destroyed their chances of getting to Mount Doom.
Are you moronic? Sam is the one who spared Gollum out of pure pity, ultimately resulting in the ring being destroyed. Frodo got all the way to Mt. Doom only to fall for the ring meme at the very end. It was the mercy of Samwise that inadvertantly saved his master and everyone else in Middle Earth.
No the OP is correct because he is talking about the relation of "carrying" having transitive properties. A transitive property is a property R such that if aRb and bRc, then aRc.
>utter piece of shit
Now that's bull. It's not perfect, but for anyone who's willing to take the grand Middle Earth Tour, it's indispensable reading. So much of the silmarillion is referenced in Lord of the rings, and Tolkien himself tried to get it published for years, he even tried to get a version packaged with the Lord of the Rings.
The Silmarillion sucks and ruins LotR. In the Hobbit and LotR, Gandalf is a great character and fun guy who is involved in a lot of adventures, but then the lore says that he is an angel on a literal mission from God rather than a real person. Why couldn't he just be a very old man who got into sorcery a long time ago? It makes the character boring.
I think it makes his character more interesting that he's this powerful agent of otherworldly gods who gets his kicks from hanging out with simple hobbit folk who smoke pipe weed and get wasted all the time.
Even in The Lord of the Rings he is mentioned as having Mystic Origins. I don't know what your problem is. If you want cool self-made Wizards, there are like a million really great fantasies just for you. And tolkien's Wizards did learn as they went, Saruman even got wrapped up in mechanical contrivances and ringlore so much he forgot a lot of the original wisdom.
When I first read the Silmarillion as a kid and found out Gandalf was an immortal angel, my shock bordered on grief. Immediately a wonderful character was destroyed and turned into a dull husk. He may as well be a robot.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
honestly, you sound like a gigantic homosexual that likes it in the ass
you're the kind of homosexual that wants stories to be super ambiguous and mysterious (an excuse for the writer's poor imagination)
I can even bet you like souls games for their "lore" just because its really lacking and players have to fill the gaps
Even in The Lord of the Rings he is mentioned as having Mystic Origins. I don't know what your problem is. If you want cool self-made Wizards, there are like a million really great fantasies just for you. And tolkien's Wizards did learn as they went, Saruman even got wrapped up in mechanical contrivances and ringlore so much he forgot a lot of the original wisdom.
i agree, i don't like that the wizards are secretly angles.
they should have been men who have achieved the highest form capable of their race, achieving near-immortality long ago, who are second only to the strongest elves like galadriel in power.
aren't humans within the context of lotr lore like the most favoured beings in middle earth?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
i think they are treated favorably, but its kind of unfair that elves are immortal, vastly stronger, vastly more intelligent, pretty much superior in almost every way
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Death seems preferable to whatever arrangement the elves have
there are plenty of sorcerers and sorceresses in tolkien's work, including queen beruthiel whose a numenorean similar to what you described. its just the 5 istari are demigods/angels/angles whatever
Isn't it already pretty strongly implied that he's an angel on a mission when he comes back to life? But I agree, I liked him in The Hobbit and Fellowship but after he came back as the white and started acting like the superpowered leader of the forces of humanity I liked him a lot less.
hobbits are resistant to the rings evil, mice likely, are not. You'd probably slap the ring on the little fury bastard, and it would instantly become as evil as modern mickey mouse. It would then be constantly trying to escape, claw it's way out, and take that ring away from you. The moment it does get loose everyone's fricked, no ones gonna find a damn mouse running around in the woods, or in the mines of Moria.
It's about how even the strongest of character can be corrupted and beaten down by evil and how we must rely on our loved ones, especially our friends.
Trying to look for loopholes in these kind of rules is the basis of Judaism.
Why didn't Gandalf do a complete survey of all Hobbits to find the dumbest of them all and make him (or her) the ringbearer? Sam is extremely stupid (I am re-reading fellowship at the moment and he is depicted as so moronic that he can't read maps) and this makes him super resistant to the ring. Was he the dumbest Hobbit alive?
If you're talking about novels, the major fault of The Lord of the Rings is not the really cool background lore - but actually the endless geographical description that pads the text out by 500 pages. It would unironically be a much better book with less of that stuff. Or at least briefly and artistically summarized like it usually was in The Hobbit.
>all of Middle Earth between the shire and the misty mountains is heath
I like heath, even love it, but couldn't Tolkien have made the landscape a little bit more diverse given how much time he spends describing it? large heathlands aren't really natural, they are the result of cultivation by humans and their animals. Yet ME is extremely sparsely populated so it didn't strike me as realistic that its almost all heath.
Man there are barrows and haunted woods and a whole magic Elven Valley and endless ruins and trolls and wild men called Dunlenders. And Tom Bombadil too.
A mouse can't hold the ring, it's a dumb animal. The ringbearer would be whoever taped it to the mouse or whoever is holding onto the mouse and suffer the same effects.
No the OP is correct because he is talking about the relation of "carrying" having transitive properties. A transitive property is a property R such that if aRb and bRc, then aRc.
The ring would be understanding transitive properties if carrying someone who carries the ring would mean carrying the ring
>Sam wasn't affected because the ring couldn't offer him anything. All Sam wanted was to be a good gardener and he was already a good gardener.
Why didn't they make him the ring bearer then? Tolkien was a fricking hack, there is a recording where he is SEETHING about people bringing up the eagles and admits he has no response
Sauron would have seen the ring flying at him from the fricking air from a thousand miles away. Even the Eagles would have become corrupted by its influence anyway.
>Sauron would have seen the ring flying at him from the fricking air from a thousand miles away.
No he wouldn't. He had no clue where it was after the nazgul got defeated at Rivendell. He made no attempts to ever get it back after that, for the entire remainder of the trilogy. If he couldn't watch all the exits of Rivendell, then he sure as hell couldn't watch all the entries to Mordor. Plus he wouldn't have watched them in the first place given that he didn't even have ONE guard at Mount Doom. The inevitable "muh hubris" cope just supports my point that it would have been incredibly easy to bring it there without detection.
He wasn't unaffected, he was only carrying it for a day or so compared to the long months it corrupted Frodo; and Sam was wired in such a way that his priorities were the complete opposite of Saurons so the ring couldnt understand him enough to tempt him with anything he would care about. Sauron cant imagine being subservient to another, and he assumes all living beings are like that. Sam is happy to work under his local lord and marry the town bicycle, this is incomprehensible to the ring.
The more you press LotRcels on plotholes, the more they make Sauron look like an utter moron who is basically powerless, and hence the more implausible it becomes that they didn't just use the eagles.
The ring wasn't made with the intentiok to corrupt the bearer. Sauron didn't think he would ever actually lose it, he made it with the express purpose of letting him control any bearer of the rings of power made by the elves among all the other effects rings had. All the extreme temptation is more or less a byproduct of Sauron dumping his will on it.
There are better fantasies, yeah, but the eagles would have been corrupted by the ring, or it would leap from their talons, or make them feel heavy or something so they would drop it. The eagles thing is just too focused on, like Grima Wormtongue, when Wormtongue is just a nickname his haters give him.
>they didn't just use the eagles.
wasn't there a bunch of fell beasts flying around Mordor?
Why would you risk losing the ring getting involved in an aerial fight with a bunch of flying Nazgul?
>wasn't there a bunch of fell beasts flying around Mordor?
You mean the beasts who got absolutel btfo by the eagles at the end? how many of those are there? do you think they can watch the entirety of Mordor's borders for 1 eagle? A much smaller risk than sending Hobbits by foot.
They wouldn't be carrying the ring directly, they'd carry Frodo or some other suitable ringbearer who therefore have to carry it for a fraction of the time he did in the novels.
Rings would have corrupted the eagles. The ring is a living thing. It kept trying to corrupt frodo but couldn't. Same with dildo. With an eagle it could have just grown in size and weight to keep them from flying then get corrupted it. It's not used being unable to corrupt individuals. It can change in size and weight. It has a mind of its own. Bilbo was pure and didn't drink have sex or kill. Frodo kind of partied was bisexual and adventures. That's why it corrupted him and not Bilbo.
>You mean the beasts who got absolutel btfo by the eagles at the end
What I'm saying is that the ring could fall in a combat situation, regardless of who wins.
>do you think they can watch the entirety of Mordor's borders for 1 eagle?
Not sure about borders but within Mordor they'll easily be spotted as the place is covered with orcs. Plus they have the fell beasts guarding Mt. Doom. And the above comment about not risking a fight because one could lose the ring still applies.
>What I'm saying is that the ring could fall in a combat situation, regardless of who wins.
How is that different from the way they actually chose? Don't you remember the numerous combat situations the fellowship gets into? >Plus they have the fell beasts guarding Mt. Doom.
No they didn't. Nobody was guarding Mt. Doom and you know it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>How is that different from the way they actually chose? Don't you remember the numerous combat situations the fellowship gets into?
Because losing the ring from the air would be far more difficult than on land?
>No they didn't. Nobody was guarding Mt. Doom and you know it. >The one place where the ring can be destroyed is unguarded
Anon, I...
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>far more difficult than on land?
*more difficult to find the ring once it's lost
Whoopsies
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Because losing the ring from the air would be far more difficult than on land?
More difficult than dropping it in the fricking chasm of Khazad Dum? >Anon, I...
Yes, Mt. Doom was completely unguarded. That is why Tolkien had to come up with the "hubris" cope concerning how Sauron didn't guard Mt. Doom at all because it was inconceivable to him that anyone would want to destroy the ring
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
o-oh yeah!? Well you're just a big meanie head!!
bye
meanie
>the more they make Sauron look like an utter moron who is basically powerless
But Sauron was right. All living things naturally crave power, the only reason the hobbits in particular don't is because they've been shielded from the world by rangers for generations and so artificially developed their naive attitude. The moment the rangers are gone because the war of the ring pulls them away, the shire gets worn like a Fleshlight by bandits. It was wholly unreasonable for Sauron to program his one ring to make exception for this one tard race who he didn't at the time even know existed, when the rings temptations work on everything else, including ancient elves and literal angels.
Why didn't the Valar just btfo Melkor once and for all instead of trying to shape the world as if he wasn't tainting it and fricking it up at the same time? how many times did he retreat back to his fortress(es) like a b***h and the Valar didn't just outright obliterate him?
didn't sam only carry frodo a couple hundred feet to the door of mt. doom? who's to say he wasn't affected? he's still a hobbit and doesn't instantly turn evil like men (boromir, faramir, isildur) do the second they touch it. this gotcha would work if he carried frodo the whole way or even frequently but it was once, at the finish line.
Why are people so desperate to try and poke a hole in this? The ring is all corrupting. It does not matter if you are or are not physically holding it.
I was watching the Hobbit movies recently and it got me wondering if the battle of the five armies was really about everyone wanting Smaugs gold, or if somehow all of those armies were drawn to the place because the one ring was there.
Because postmodern midwits don't understand fairy tales or epic poems. If the story is not treated as a 1 to 1 real life simulation, they just can't enjoy it.
>lesser creatures get corrupted far more easily than sentient ones >explicitly stated slithering crawling things tend to work for sauron >mouse would immediately succumb and rush out to look for some crow or orc to find to snatch it up
As always with morons who think they "found" a plot hole with LOTR, it's explained thoroughly in the book. I'm so tired of fricking of how everyone is just another pseud ecritic moron.
Story is fine. The only way to "fix" lotr is to cleverly summarize the interminable descriptions of the world's billion hills and dales. But no story is perfect for everyone.
Do not give the One Ring to a creature as weak willed as a mouse.
It will immediently surrender to Sauron's will. Have you ever tried to catch a mouse? What about a mouse that could turn invisible? If you ever lost it for one second your adventure would be over.
The frick? People thought this made Sam immune to the ring? I thought it was just some last ditch effort by a exhausted half dying hobbit to hype himself up and push forward while at the base of the mountain
We already saw people *around* Frodo try to steal the ring carrying the ring bearer does not make you immune to its effects lmao, the carrying part was just to fulfill his promise to frodo.
carrying it for an entire day is still pretty impressive when elves and men would fall for it immediately. do you think farmer maggot would have lasted a day?
For all of tolkien's """world building""" where he spends an entire chapter writing pointless nonsense about the songs the little elves sing around the campfire - he's actually a terrible writer.
The biggest problem with LotR is that all of the villains are so ineffectual they never really had a chance to begin with. Sauron's strongest soldier gets taken out by a hobbit and a woman. Frodo meets all of the greatest and most powerful people in Middle Earth and not one of them even thinks about taking the ring.
The main theme of the story is the power of humility against pride. >Frodo meets all of the greatest and most powerful people in Middle Earth and not one of them even thinks about taking the ring.
Lol no, even Galadriel gets tempted at one point.
Who gives a frick if Sauron gets the ring anyway? Wow, the giant stationary eyeball that everyone knows the location of will… become invisible! Wait, he doesn’t even fricking have fingers
>Who gives a frick if Sauron gets the ring anyway?
Everyone who stands to die if Sauron reclaims his source of power and corporeal form to rain fire and death across Middle Earth
He's the embodiment of evil, I'm not sure he would destroy himself in the process but rather remake the world in his hellish vision.
Cinemaphile is getting more moronic these days, summer I guess
>Sam knew all the arguments of despair and would not listen to them. His will was set, and only death would break it.
basically, sam's will was able to overpower the ring even if just for a moment
Lets say absolutely worse case scenario the hobbits fail and Sauron gets the ring back. Who on middle earth would be able to actually show up to try and fight him? Would he take some sort of precaution against people cutting his fingers off?
The elves would just leave so there wouldn't be anyone besides Gandalf, and he's not allowed to use his full power. Middle Earth would just be screwed.
>Would this have worked?
No. It wasn't Frodo who carried the ring, it was Sam and Frodo. They were able to complete the mission and overcome hate through the power of freinship.
We saw how Isildur was attacked by those who wanted the Ring. It calls out.
It's fricking SAMWISE who carries him briefly without corruption. Sam, pure of heart Sam. Meanwhile, Frodo had been carrying it for HOW LONG before the effects started to wear on him?
I'm so sick of these moronic fricking "theories" that are easily defeated by simply fricking paying attention to the goddamn story. Frodo didn't go all Gollum after several days, therefore Sam can carry Frodo for awhile. Meanwhile, it had been calling to Boromir previously.
If it were BOROMIR carrying Frodo with zero temptation THEN it would be a different fricking matter.
everybody was affected by the Ring. It's explained in the books and shown in the movies that just being near it will tempt you.
I'm guessing a woman wrote that post because only a woman could so badly miss the point.
>Make 9 identical boxes >Put the ring in one of them >Give each box to a different member of the Fellowship
Now none of them can get corrupted because none of them even know if they have the ring or not.
scenario 1: the Ring corrupts a mouse. A Man in proximity (Boromir) is immediately tempted, and Gandalf Christ does not even dare touch it. The speed and depth of corruption also increases as Sauron grows stronger. The mouse would be a RAAAH in a few days; the moment no one is paying attention it will chew through strings and pockets, break its own ribs to get out of a cage, then turn invisible and disappear. Middle Earth gets Bad End in a fortnight.
Scenario 2: The Ring seeks a better host immediately. Frodo Ringbearer's ownership is a first-line deterrence. He will run and at minimum the Hobbits and Gandalf will immediately defend him because of personal friendship. A mouse has no sentient friends; everyone in the fellowship suffers the ambient temptation unfiltered. Also, Frodo and Sam actually failed, if Frodo's sustained kindness to Gollum didn't cause a hail-mary save. No such save will exist in the Fellowship of the Mouse
Hobbits' designs barely go beyond 3rd breakfast, and they're not spared.
Frodo just carrying it under a fortnight going from Shire to Loth is already having a tangible influence.
>Hobbits are sentient >rats are merely conscious
Animal desires have no language but are more immediate. Think of an untrained dog: no unguarded food or unhumped ankle is safe. A rodent Ringbearer makes the Ring's job simpler.
>HERE NICE >HERE GOOD >NOSE IN >NOSE IN >HERE HAS FUKK >HEAD IN YES >HERE HAS CHEEZ >NECK YES >YESSSSS
Frodo had that Ring for years before he undertook the journey with the Fellowship. Besides, possibly anyone who had that Ring would have succumbed to it's powers when they were inside the very volcano where it was created. Remember that Phial that the Elvish queen Galadriel gave to Sam? It didn't work at all in the volcano.
some low IQ homosexual that thinks they're smart wrote this
there's no indication this would apply for a mouse, or that it affects mice in the same way it would sam/frodo in this situation
kill all pseud homosexuals
mutilate pseud homosexuals
>everyone is too stupid to understand that Sam wasn't affected by the ring AT ALL and it's explained in the fricking book a real page turner that they obviously didn't bother to read
Cinemaphile you are weak sauce
The Ring didn't influence Sam because Sam had no evil in his heart. His only wish was to see his beautiful home once more.
Something the ring could not promise in any twisted fate.
The darker deep dive is what was in Frodo's heart that allowed him to be so deeply influenced.
Frodo is canonically not a good person entirely.
according to the notes we have, all the ring could foreseeably do for Sam was offer him incredible farming prowess. Sam however is already a skillful farmer and actually desires to improve of his own accord. the ring is absolutely powerless in regards to Sam.
sam was literally a ring bearer, he had already wore the ring before this, which is supposed to make the feat of him carrying frodo to mt doom all the more significant
Again, this is bullshit. Transitive still applies, Sam feels the weight of the ring as he carries Frodo. When he says ' I can't carry it for you' he means that last time he took it Frodo forbade him from doing so again, and Frodo is his master so he obeyed him. Unless Frodo dies, he's never taking it again, hence ' I can't carry it for you'. He literally could, honour and loyalty prevents it
This shouldn't need to be explained. He literally did carry it like an hour before this, we know he can carry it, he could only possibly mean that he is nit permitted to, not that he is unable to
You'd just want to take it from the mouse like Boromir wanted to take it from Frodo. It was Sam's brolove for Frodo overpowered any desire for the ring in that moment.
LOTR is a story for young teens, a simple tale of good fighting evil, not a le deep transitory property study for you to analyze you utter fricking morons.
The art of producing adhesive tape was lost by the Third Age.
Yes. Tolkien didn't put too much thought into it
wtf I hate LotR now
it'd be like having the ring and also some useless mouse in your inventory
like that stupid exit mouse from mother 2
>tape it to a mouse
>grab the mouse
>still have walk all the fricking way there
What does this change?
Meanwhile this means the eagles could have very easily transported them there with no risk of corruption.
always with the fricking eagles as if they wanted to risk fighting wyrms
wtf are wyrms?
like worms but nothing like worms
what do you think fella?
I'm gonna guess they mean dragons.
>high altitude
>when above doom they just dive
literally 0 risk of getting caught, corrupted, harmed, etc
Wyrms didn't exist by that point
>Meanwhile this means the eagles could have very easily transported them there with no risk of corruption.
Except the eagles being corrupted
corrupted how? if anything the mouse would get corrupted, but what can it do? it's a mouse.
>corrupted how?
You're right, I can't see an intelligent and extremely prideful creature being tempted by the One Ring's promise of power.
yeah but it's taped to a mouse so there's no corruption possible as per OP's argument
op is wrong you don't need to be in direct contact to be under its influence. boromer, for example
>but what can it do? it's a mouse.
I guess you haven't seen the Nathan Lane vehicle known as Mouse Hunt
We need a spin-off film where a mouse has the one ring and Sauron has to do Wile E. Coyote shenanigans to catch it.
This is what Amazon should be spending their money on instead of Rings of Poopoo.
>but what can it do?
start a bubonic plague
Mice didn't cause the bubonic plague, it was a conjunction of Jupiter and Mars
The eagles couldn't give less a frick about mankind. They only ever came because of gandalf. Also, maybe the ring would have an effect on the eagles? I mean beasts are clearly drawn to it, balrogs, the watcher in the waters, etc.
>They only ever came because of gandalf
So Gandalf asks them for a favor. What's the issue here?
Gandalf is essentially an Angel. He's there to lend a helping hand when it's needed most, but "God" in LOTR wants men to solve their own problems and will only intervene if they've given it 100% and still need a little help
He did that in The Hobbit, it would be rude to ask a second time.
I thought the watcher in the water was just po'd that an entire entourage of people just showed up and started fricking around on it's doorstep
nah, gandalf realises that it went for frodo first for a reason
the eagles refused to get too involved as it was not their fight
same reason the elves did not just steamroll the entire path up to the mountain
the crisis of middle earf needed to be solved by its own people
if he really wanted, Glorfindel (who was incorruptible) could have single handedly marched from rivendell all the way up to the mountain on his own, killed anyone in sauron's army, killed all of the ring wraiths, killed saruman, killed sauron, and dropped the ring into the lava
he was pretty much a god, unrestrained by any rules unlike gandalf and saruman, and much stronger than sauron in his weakened state
>the eagles refused to get too involved as it was not their fight
Pure cope. They got involved loads of times.
they had to get permission from Eru, who only allowed them to act when he felt like it
No they didn't, this is not in the books. "Eru" is never mentioned in LotR.
the eagles had to fly over to Valinor and ask Manwe to put in a petition to Eru to allow them to interfere and rescue Gandalf
its why they took so long to save him
its all explained in the burger king tie-in comic to the second movie, written by christopher tolkein's nephew
>the eagles had to fly over to Valinor and ask Manwe to put in a petition to Eru to allow them to interfere and rescue Gandalf
That is not in the books, as you admit yourself.
it doesnt matter, its in the cannon and its what john would have wanted
>its all explained in the burger king tie-in comic to the second movie, written by christopher tolkein's nephew
i assume it was written in crayon, with lots of illustrations
Ring not only has transitive properties, it influence environment miles away from it. Nobody gives credits to Frodo, but everyone thinks ring is not as powerful as it is only because how good-hearted and strong-minded Frodo was.
Eagles would 100% steal the ring and they only agreed to fly close to Mordor after Sauron was killed. His eye would literally just fry them alive.
>Glorfindel
>godly levels of OP
>gets replaced in the movie by Aragorn's wienersleeve
Bros...
>Glorfindel
Was not that strong, calm down.
The dude 1v1'd a Balrog in personal combat and killed it. An he would've survived the combat if it weren't for a cheeky hair grab.
Why didn't Gandalf just conjure up a stealth jet or two and fly them to Mt. Doom that way past Sauron's air defenses?
Sauron’s radar was just that good, his tower could detect jets being scrambled even in other countries.
Are you kidding? Sauron can't do anything without Uncle Scam backing up his ass.
Yeah but just try to criticize the billions in aid he gets every year and see what happens.
These nuts should be scrambled over your chin.
Wouldn't the eagles be sitting ducks for marksmen?
Sauron bred fellbeasts specifically as a counter to the eagles.
>What does this change?
You dont have an evil ring constantly mind fricking you and trying to frick you over at every turn.
It would still be doing that, though. Anyone who knew about it would be tempted to steal the mouse.
Sam was affected by the ring.
This. He eventually crosses the sea to join the others who carried the ring.
Yeah but he actually has the ring in his possession at some point. It's not because he carried frodo.
And what of good Boromir?
He was the only one who tried to take the ring from frodo and was killed almost immediately.
>who tried to take the ring from frodo
And why did he attempt to take the ring from Frodo?
He was in a bad mood because his hemorrhoids were acting up. Also being tempted by the ring and wanting to bring it to gondor.
>transitive property
the detail on this tongue is triggering my goonstick
>trying to insult someone when you have a collection of rage faces
Yet you own that gayties style muh reddit meme
You're no better. Go with him. You're just his Tyler Durden edgy-boi (troony) alt anyway.
>I’M SMART!!!!!!!!!!
>Using words bad
Is it because you can't understand them, you stupid fricking Black?
>Black
Go leave.
He was Affected but he was strong
This. I don't think people realize how resistant Hobbits are to evil. Remember when Pippin grabbed the Palantir he was able to hold it and struggle against it for a good long while, but when Aragon attempted to snatch it off him to save him he immediately lost control and collapsed?
In Pippin's case it was Sauron who was holding him on the line and torturing him.
In the novels Aragorn keeps the Palantir and uses it to scope the land - as well as to show himself, the heir of Elendil, to Sauron and provoke him to hasty action. He uses his Numenorean god-blood to wrestle with Sauron and win, something Gandalf is afraid to attempt.
>man with ring: imma go become the next dark lord and rule the world!
>hobbit with ring: i'll make a nice garden, maybe grow a big pumpking or something
>. I don't think people realize how resistant Hobbits are to evil.
It's not resistance to evil. There are certainly hobbits who are openly selfish & petty, like the Sackville-Baggins'. The One Ring doesn't corrupt hobbits as quickly because they are simple & humble, as opposed to the race of men & elves, who are arrogant.
In the book Sauron thinks Pippin is a sorcerer and one of his servants when he takes the palantir and it just sort of confused why this wizard is so moronic. Gandalf even thanks Pippin, saying if he had grabbed it he may have been corrupted or destroyed. Book Gandalf is both 100% more cantankerous and 100% more forgiving.
This is correct. Being simple and innocent folk makes them harder corrupt. On top of that Frodo and Sam especially are good hearted even among Hobbits. The only thing the ring can tempt Sam with is a really cool garden in his backyard.
Nah, he thinks Pippin is Saruman's prisoner and commands him to tell Saruman to hurry up and deliver him to him so that he, Sauron, can torture the shit out of him. "This dainty," he calls Pippin through Pippin's own mouth.
Probably lots of butt stuff, cuz evil guys unironically love that shit.
Sam was too moronic and loyal to Frodo to take the ring for himself, he carries it for a bit and is tempted to just keep it when he find out Frodo is still alive but he is too pure hearted to betray Frodo.
Nice digits and post.
If I remember the book correctly the ring shows Sam the power he would have with it and it's just a big garden. He overcomes it by remembering he has that already back home.
The true RotK adaptation covered this:
?si=0Ch4YzllA21dvlQJ
Or now you have a schizo demon mouse
Sam is utterly exhausted at the top of Mt doom. Bearing both Frodo and his ring
>mouse becomes supernaturally strong, fast, and invisible and escapes easily
>mouse experiences saurons gaze but cant really cause his eyes and brain are too tiny
becomes supernaturally strong, fast, and invisible and escapes easily
I mean that's basically what mice are like normally.
>runs off to some Hobbit farm
>creates rats of NIMH in Middle Earth
Brisbybros, kino is back on the menu.
Boromir got affected without ever touching it directly
this. the ring isnt a touch thing its a presence thing. it just has to be near you. sam is just a fricking beast
i also saw this on reddit and was just about to post it 🙁
Once Frodo arrives at Rivendell, melt down his mithril armor and encase the ring in a block of mithril. Then put Frodo and Gandalf on an eagle, fly over to Mount Doom, drop it in. There is literally no argument why they shouldn't have done this.
J. R. R. Tolkien already pointed this out and said it's the stupidest thing I ever heard.
Sam is the real hero and he doesn't get nearly enough recognition. He gets some clapped out bar bawd whilst Frodo goes on a cruise with elven nymphs to literally another dimension.
Sam becomes mayor of the shire, has a bunch of kids, and then goes to hang out with Frodo after he dies. If anything he winds up with the best of all worlds.
After his wife died he went over there too in order to rejoin his true love.
Sam was a ring bearer, even if it was for maybe an hour or two at most. He earned a ticket to the Grey Havens and went there when he got old.
Frodo is the hero because he lets Gollum live which is how the ring is ultimately is destroyed. If it was in Sam's hands he would have killed Gollum and destroyed their chances of getting to Mount Doom.
but then Eru would have probably just tripped Frodo into Mount Doom instead.
Sam only wants to kill Gollum because he is a danger to Frodo. I don't think he has it in him to kill someone entirely on his own accord.
Sam would if he had the ring. Gollum would be fricking with Sam instead of Frodo.
Are you moronic? Sam is the one who spared Gollum out of pure pity, ultimately resulting in the ring being destroyed. Frodo got all the way to Mt. Doom only to fall for the ring meme at the very end. It was the mercy of Samwise that inadvertantly saved his master and everyone else in Middle Earth.
Sam could resist the ring's influence, just not as well as Frodo.
Positivism and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
>hey where did the mouse go?
>oh frick we’re never going to find it
...
unironically kino ending
Why gollum horny?
the scent of sweaty hobbussy, of course.
Some say that just one taste can corrupt you as easily as the ring.
The one (crusty) ring.
>written by Stephen King
Boromir was corrupted and he wasn’t holding the ring.
how would you catch the mouse?
>Tape ring to mouse
>"It's on the Mouse!"
The mouse is loose!
>effected
Stick it to a sheet of paper for God's sake, why risk a mouse?
Why do redditors always say things like "by the transitive property" and "non-zero chance"?
Survey level college course education
Because they’re gay.
mid wittery
they are smart enough to be above the average but not smart enough to do anything impressive or admirable, so they try to fake it
trans rights are important
what would you call it then mr smart guy
if you have a CS bachelors then your babby intro to math class will touch on transitive relations
Because.. SCIENCE!
No because it literally does have transitive properties. Otherwise boromir going after frodo wouldn't be a thing.
That's not what transitive property means though
So the OP is also incorrect and the point is moot.
No the OP is correct because he is talking about the relation of "carrying" having transitive properties. A transitive property is a property R such that if aRb and bRc, then aRc.
Their actualyl journey was a few years long.
isn't LOTR at it's core about a bunch of homosexual ethereal multi dimensional beings making music
Yeah.
No, LotR is great. What you are talking about is the Silmarillion, an utter piece of shit written by Tolkien's son "based on his father's notes".
so Melkor didn't do sick guitar licks?
>utter piece of shit
Now that's bull. It's not perfect, but for anyone who's willing to take the grand Middle Earth Tour, it's indispensable reading. So much of the silmarillion is referenced in Lord of the rings, and Tolkien himself tried to get it published for years, he even tried to get a version packaged with the Lord of the Rings.
The Silmarillion sucks and ruins LotR. In the Hobbit and LotR, Gandalf is a great character and fun guy who is involved in a lot of adventures, but then the lore says that he is an angel on a literal mission from God rather than a real person. Why couldn't he just be a very old man who got into sorcery a long time ago? It makes the character boring.
I think it makes his character more interesting that he's this powerful agent of otherworldly gods who gets his kicks from hanging out with simple hobbit folk who smoke pipe weed and get wasted all the time.
When I first read the Silmarillion as a kid and found out Gandalf was an immortal angel, my shock bordered on grief. Immediately a wonderful character was destroyed and turned into a dull husk. He may as well be a robot.
honestly, you sound like a gigantic homosexual that likes it in the ass
you're the kind of homosexual that wants stories to be super ambiguous and mysterious (an excuse for the writer's poor imagination)
I can even bet you like souls games for their "lore" just because its really lacking and players have to fill the gaps
>t. fedora tipper
Even in The Lord of the Rings he is mentioned as having Mystic Origins. I don't know what your problem is. If you want cool self-made Wizards, there are like a million really great fantasies just for you. And tolkien's Wizards did learn as they went, Saruman even got wrapped up in mechanical contrivances and ringlore so much he forgot a lot of the original wisdom.
i agree, i don't like that the wizards are secretly angles.
they should have been men who have achieved the highest form capable of their race, achieving near-immortality long ago, who are second only to the strongest elves like galadriel in power.
aren't humans within the context of lotr lore like the most favoured beings in middle earth?
i think they are treated favorably, but its kind of unfair that elves are immortal, vastly stronger, vastly more intelligent, pretty much superior in almost every way
Death seems preferable to whatever arrangement the elves have
there should have been some kind of uberdwarf too to rival the wizards and the grand elves
otherwise the dwarves are just inferior in pretty much every way, not very fair
Dwarves are mostly just craftsmen and builders of unbeatable scale, by nature.
More than humans or elves.
They're also the most ferocious fighters, mama says they's ornery cos they manlets
there are plenty of sorcerers and sorceresses in tolkien's work, including queen beruthiel whose a numenorean similar to what you described. its just the 5 istari are demigods/angels/angles whatever
>waaaah I hate The Silmarillion because muh Gandalf waaah
God damn even I feel embarrassed about how fricking moronic you are
Isn't it already pretty strongly implied that he's an angel on a mission when he comes back to life? But I agree, I liked him in The Hobbit and Fellowship but after he came back as the white and started acting like the superpowered leader of the forces of humanity I liked him a lot less.
>The Silmarillion sucks and ruins LotR
filtered
LotR and the Hobbit suck without The Silmarillion because it provides context to the otherwise nonsensical bullshit in those stories.
Hey man the part where the Chad Fingolfin called the Virgin Morgoth craven was cool.
Why did it have to be mount doom? Why not find another volcano and throw it into that?
Doom means destiny
I think the idea is that the ring itself is always trying to escape its own confines. So a mouse might run away with it etc.
hobbits are resistant to the rings evil, mice likely, are not. You'd probably slap the ring on the little fury bastard, and it would instantly become as evil as modern mickey mouse. It would then be constantly trying to escape, claw it's way out, and take that ring away from you. The moment it does get loose everyone's fricked, no ones gonna find a damn mouse running around in the woods, or in the mines of Moria.
>as evil as modern mickey mouse
WE LIVE IN A UNIVERSE
Who says he wasn’t affected by the ring? Took a while for it to corrupt Frodo.
Sam just needed to carry him the final steps.
It's about how even the strongest of character can be corrupted and beaten down by evil and how we must rely on our loved ones, especially our friends.
Trying to look for loopholes in these kind of rules is the basis of Judaism.
Why didn't Gandalf do a complete survey of all Hobbits to find the dumbest of them all and make him (or her) the ringbearer? Sam is extremely stupid (I am re-reading fellowship at the moment and he is depicted as so moronic that he can't read maps) and this makes him super resistant to the ring. Was he the dumbest Hobbit alive?
Did they have tape in the Third Age?
If you're talking about novels, the major fault of The Lord of the Rings is not the really cool background lore - but actually the endless geographical description that pads the text out by 500 pages. It would unironically be a much better book with less of that stuff. Or at least briefly and artistically summarized like it usually was in The Hobbit.
>all of Middle Earth between the shire and the misty mountains is heath
I like heath, even love it, but couldn't Tolkien have made the landscape a little bit more diverse given how much time he spends describing it? large heathlands aren't really natural, they are the result of cultivation by humans and their animals. Yet ME is extremely sparsely populated so it didn't strike me as realistic that its almost all heath.
Man there are barrows and haunted woods and a whole magic Elven Valley and endless ruins and trolls and wild men called Dunlenders. And Tom Bombadil too.
There are like five or six forests on ME and most of them are tiny. It makes no sense.
Mirkwood is huge and Fangorn is too. Plus there's a whole East and South of the world that is never mentioned in detail.
I hope Rings of Power will finally show us more of the parts of Arda that Tolkien ignored.
>I hope Rings of Power
Oh God. Please just shut up and go away.
yea im not touching a mouse bro
>put ring on mouse
>mouse goes invisible and scurries away
>”….frick”
>also takes all your lambas bread
Why didn’t they just fly planes into the towers of Barad-dur and Orthanc?
A mouse can't hold the ring, it's a dumb animal. The ringbearer would be whoever taped it to the mouse or whoever is holding onto the mouse and suffer the same effects.
>the ring doesn't understand transitivep roperties
????
We saw several characters be affected by the ring despite never touching it
Sam wasn't affected because the ring couldn't offer him anything. All Sam wanted was to be a good gardener and he was already a good gardener.
see:
The ring would be understanding transitive properties if carrying someone who carries the ring would mean carrying the ring
>Sam wasn't affected because the ring couldn't offer him anything. All Sam wanted was to be a good gardener and he was already a good gardener.
Why didn't they make him the ring bearer then? Tolkien was a fricking hack, there is a recording where he is SEETHING about people bringing up the eagles and admits he has no response
I guess nobody knew how pure Sam was? maybe not even Sam, he's supposed to be dumb
Exactly I disagree when people say Sam was the "real hero" but he was still absolutely essential and moments like that prove it
Sauron would have seen the ring flying at him from the fricking air from a thousand miles away. Even the Eagles would have become corrupted by its influence anyway.
>Sauron would have seen the ring flying at him from the fricking air from a thousand miles away.
No he wouldn't. He had no clue where it was after the nazgul got defeated at Rivendell. He made no attempts to ever get it back after that, for the entire remainder of the trilogy. If he couldn't watch all the exits of Rivendell, then he sure as hell couldn't watch all the entries to Mordor. Plus he wouldn't have watched them in the first place given that he didn't even have ONE guard at Mount Doom. The inevitable "muh hubris" cope just supports my point that it would have been incredibly easy to bring it there without detection.
You need to get over the fact it had multiple bisexuals
The mouse would escape and the Ring would use it to bring it Sauron.
Yeah, even Gandalf thought they might lose at certain points in time.
He wasn't unaffected, he was only carrying it for a day or so compared to the long months it corrupted Frodo; and Sam was wired in such a way that his priorities were the complete opposite of Saurons so the ring couldnt understand him enough to tempt him with anything he would care about. Sauron cant imagine being subservient to another, and he assumes all living beings are like that. Sam is happy to work under his local lord and marry the town bicycle, this is incomprehensible to the ring.
The more you press LotRcels on plotholes, the more they make Sauron look like an utter moron who is basically powerless, and hence the more implausible it becomes that they didn't just use the eagles.
The ring was never made to corrupt hobbits
That's weird because Bilbo seemed pretty corrupted at several points
Hobbits are corruptible, if resistant. Gollum was a hobbit of sorts, but he be ame a mewlip or something and not a wraith.
He wasn't corrupted in a single day.
Smeagol was though even though he was a hobbit
Smeagol was a lousy butthole to start with.
The ring wasn't made with the intentiok to corrupt the bearer. Sauron didn't think he would ever actually lose it, he made it with the express purpose of letting him control any bearer of the rings of power made by the elves among all the other effects rings had. All the extreme temptation is more or less a byproduct of Sauron dumping his will on it.
There are better fantasies, yeah, but the eagles would have been corrupted by the ring, or it would leap from their talons, or make them feel heavy or something so they would drop it. The eagles thing is just too focused on, like Grima Wormtongue, when Wormtongue is just a nickname his haters give him.
>they didn't just use the eagles.
wasn't there a bunch of fell beasts flying around Mordor?
Why would you risk losing the ring getting involved in an aerial fight with a bunch of flying Nazgul?
>wasn't there a bunch of fell beasts flying around Mordor?
You mean the beasts who got absolutel btfo by the eagles at the end? how many of those are there? do you think they can watch the entirety of Mordor's borders for 1 eagle? A much smaller risk than sending Hobbits by foot.
What happens if the eagle drops the ring? What happens if the ring makes eagle powermad or some shit?
They wouldn't be carrying the ring directly, they'd carry Frodo or some other suitable ringbearer who therefore have to carry it for a fraction of the time he did in the novels.
Rings would have corrupted the eagles. The ring is a living thing. It kept trying to corrupt frodo but couldn't. Same with dildo. With an eagle it could have just grown in size and weight to keep them from flying then get corrupted it. It's not used being unable to corrupt individuals. It can change in size and weight. It has a mind of its own. Bilbo was pure and didn't drink have sex or kill. Frodo kind of partied was bisexual and adventures. That's why it corrupted him and not Bilbo.
>implying it didn't corrupt dildo
>implying dildo didn't have pole-parties with his dwarf friends while on the road
Fool of a cuck!
>You mean the beasts who got absolutel btfo by the eagles at the end
What I'm saying is that the ring could fall in a combat situation, regardless of who wins.
>do you think they can watch the entirety of Mordor's borders for 1 eagle?
Not sure about borders but within Mordor they'll easily be spotted as the place is covered with orcs. Plus they have the fell beasts guarding Mt. Doom. And the above comment about not risking a fight because one could lose the ring still applies.
>What I'm saying is that the ring could fall in a combat situation, regardless of who wins.
How is that different from the way they actually chose? Don't you remember the numerous combat situations the fellowship gets into?
>Plus they have the fell beasts guarding Mt. Doom.
No they didn't. Nobody was guarding Mt. Doom and you know it.
>How is that different from the way they actually chose? Don't you remember the numerous combat situations the fellowship gets into?
Because losing the ring from the air would be far more difficult than on land?
>No they didn't. Nobody was guarding Mt. Doom and you know it.
>The one place where the ring can be destroyed is unguarded
Anon, I...
>far more difficult than on land?
*more difficult to find the ring once it's lost
Whoopsies
>Because losing the ring from the air would be far more difficult than on land?
More difficult than dropping it in the fricking chasm of Khazad Dum?
>Anon, I...
Yes, Mt. Doom was completely unguarded. That is why Tolkien had to come up with the "hubris" cope concerning how Sauron didn't guard Mt. Doom at all because it was inconceivable to him that anyone would want to destroy the ring
o-oh yeah!? Well you're just a big meanie head!!
bye
meanie
>the more they make Sauron look like an utter moron who is basically powerless
But Sauron was right. All living things naturally crave power, the only reason the hobbits in particular don't is because they've been shielded from the world by rangers for generations and so artificially developed their naive attitude. The moment the rangers are gone because the war of the ring pulls them away, the shire gets worn like a Fleshlight by bandits. It was wholly unreasonable for Sauron to program his one ring to make exception for this one tard race who he didn't at the time even know existed, when the rings temptations work on everything else, including ancient elves and literal angels.
moron
>muh plotholes
Why didn't the Valar just btfo Melkor once and for all instead of trying to shape the world as if he wasn't tainting it and fricking it up at the same time? how many times did he retreat back to his fortress(es) like a b***h and the Valar didn't just outright obliterate him?
you wouldn't want to carry that vicious mouse
ALWAYS WITH THE SCENARIOS
didn't sam only carry frodo a couple hundred feet to the door of mt. doom? who's to say he wasn't affected? he's still a hobbit and doesn't instantly turn evil like men (boromir, faramir, isildur) do the second they touch it. this gotcha would work if he carried frodo the whole way or even frequently but it was once, at the finish line.
Why are people so desperate to try and poke a hole in this? The ring is all corrupting. It does not matter if you are or are not physically holding it.
I was watching the Hobbit movies recently and it got me wondering if the battle of the five armies was really about everyone wanting Smaugs gold, or if somehow all of those armies were drawn to the place because the one ring was there.
Because postmodern midwits don't understand fairy tales or epic poems. If the story is not treated as a 1 to 1 real life simulation, they just can't enjoy it.
>lesser creatures get corrupted far more easily than sentient ones
>explicitly stated slithering crawling things tend to work for sauron
>mouse would immediately succumb and rush out to look for some crow or orc to find to snatch it up
As always with morons who think they "found" a plot hole with LOTR, it's explained thoroughly in the book. I'm so tired of fricking of how everyone is just another pseud ecritic moron.
>HURR BUT THEY COULD JUST PUT IT IN A CAGE!
what would have happened if someone swallowed the one ring?
would they turn invisidle?
Sauron would have to suck it from your bum
>orcs drag hobbit to sauron
>"swallowed my ring huh"
>"well i've got just the thing to get it back"
>*unzips*
Sauron has a mouth penis? I've seen an anime similar to this, and it doesn't end well for the elves...
you remember the "mouth of sauron". that was literally his dick in armor.
sauron wakes up laughing at less beings whose dicks cant even talk
>sauron wakes up laughing at less beings whose dicks cant even talk
We SHALL sneeed
?si=WPq3XMx-NvGWdKFV
Why didn't Frodo simply say, "I miss the part where that's my problem?"
Story is fine. The only way to "fix" lotr is to cleverly summarize the interminable descriptions of the world's billion hills and dales. But no story is perfect for everyone.
Gandalf just put the ring in an envelope about 40 seconds into the first film this image is shite.
Why didn't they just send it by UPS? That way it would be destroyed before it even gets to Mt. Doom.
Do not give the One Ring to a creature as weak willed as a mouse.
It will immediently surrender to Sauron's will. Have you ever tried to catch a mouse? What about a mouse that could turn invisible? If you ever lost it for one second your adventure would be over.
The ring drove Smeagol kill Deagol before he even touched it.
>evil LITERALLY cannot win because god is too perfect and pure
wow very engaging story we have here
Man we went through these nine levels of ironic and unironic Grimdark distaste all through the 90s and 2000s, get over yourself.
everything is awful and billions must die
the truth too much for you?
>the ring can do anything Tolkien wanted it to
Wow, such lore, much deep
The frick? People thought this made Sam immune to the ring? I thought it was just some last ditch effort by a exhausted half dying hobbit to hype himself up and push forward while at the base of the mountain
We already saw people *around* Frodo try to steal the ring carrying the ring bearer does not make you immune to its effects lmao, the carrying part was just to fulfill his promise to frodo.
Now you have an evil mouse to contend with.
Of course not. Sam was able to carry Frodo because he's Sam, not because the Ring's characteristic aren't transitive
>Frodo carries the ring for weeks/months across all of Middle Earth
>starts to succumb to the power of the Ring
>Sam carries Frodo up hills for like one day
>no effects
OMG guys is Tolkein le stupid????!!?!?!??? Upvotes to the left!!
edit: thanks for the gold kind stranger
carrying it for an entire day is still pretty impressive when elves and men would fall for it immediately. do you think farmer maggot would have lasted a day?
But that's already the story. Frodo was the mouse.
For all of tolkien's """world building""" where he spends an entire chapter writing pointless nonsense about the songs the little elves sing around the campfire - he's actually a terrible writer.
The biggest problem with LotR is that all of the villains are so ineffectual they never really had a chance to begin with. Sauron's strongest soldier gets taken out by a hobbit and a woman. Frodo meets all of the greatest and most powerful people in Middle Earth and not one of them even thinks about taking the ring.
The main theme of the story is the power of humility against pride.
>Frodo meets all of the greatest and most powerful people in Middle Earth and not one of them even thinks about taking the ring.
Lol no, even Galadriel gets tempted at one point.
I've never seen any of these gay movies but these threads are always fricking hilarious
Who gives a frick if Sauron gets the ring anyway? Wow, the giant stationary eyeball that everyone knows the location of will… become invisible! Wait, he doesn’t even fricking have fingers
He's not an eyeball, he's a physical guy, and the eyeball is the symbol.
>Who gives a frick if Sauron gets the ring anyway?
Everyone who stands to die if Sauron reclaims his source of power and corporeal form to rain fire and death across Middle Earth
>Villain wants to destroy the world and himself for no reason outside of the fact that he can
Unironically pretty based
He's the embodiment of evil, I'm not sure he would destroy himself in the process but rather remake the world in his hellish vision.
Cinemaphile is getting more moronic these days, summer I guess
Wow. I bet you're one of those people who wonders why they didn't just fly the Eagles to Mordor.
>Sam knew all the arguments of despair and would not listen to them. His will was set, and only death would break it.
basically, sam's will was able to overpower the ring even if just for a moment
the mouse would have become evil or something
Lets say absolutely worse case scenario the hobbits fail and Sauron gets the ring back. Who on middle earth would be able to actually show up to try and fight him? Would he take some sort of precaution against people cutting his fingers off?
The elves would just leave so there wouldn't be anyone besides Gandalf, and he's not allowed to use his full power. Middle Earth would just be screwed.
Iluvatar would just get mad and show up.
they didn't have tape on Middle Earth
>Would this have worked?
No. It wasn't Frodo who carried the ring, it was Sam and Frodo. They were able to complete the mission and overcome hate through the power of freinship.
why didn't Frodo just put the ring on his dick and frick Sam in the ass?
Why didn't Gandalf just have Bilbo take the ring to Rivendell if he was going to have Frodo take it there anyway
Bilbo would have fiended and ran off into the wilderness with the ring to become another Gollum
After carrying it for like 80 years?
Yes, he was clearly becoming obsessed with the ring at that point, as shown when he refused to give Gandalf the ring
He just barely gave it up to Frodo, and even that was just because he was too moronic to know that he was supposed to want it.
We saw how Isildur was attacked by those who wanted the Ring. It calls out.
It's fricking SAMWISE who carries him briefly without corruption. Sam, pure of heart Sam. Meanwhile, Frodo had been carrying it for HOW LONG before the effects started to wear on him?
I'm so sick of these moronic fricking "theories" that are easily defeated by simply fricking paying attention to the goddamn story. Frodo didn't go all Gollum after several days, therefore Sam can carry Frodo for awhile. Meanwhile, it had been calling to Boromir previously.
If it were BOROMIR carrying Frodo with zero temptation THEN it would be a different fricking matter.
okay, but would that turn the mouse invisible and alert the orcs to their location constantly?
>why didn't thing happen in LotR by my modern logic???
I don't know, maybe Tolkien was trying to tell a fricking story
everybody was affected by the Ring. It's explained in the books and shown in the movies that just being near it will tempt you.
I'm guessing a woman wrote that post because only a woman could so badly miss the point.
>Make 9 identical boxes
>Put the ring in one of them
>Give each box to a different member of the Fellowship
Now none of them can get corrupted because none of them even know if they have the ring or not.
Boromir would just steal everyone's boxes while they slept
Does this moron know that they're rescued by a wizard riding a huge eagle?
Now you have an invisible ghost rat lost in the fricking world.
Congratulations you damn autismo.
Frodo is the mouse
no.
scenario 1: the Ring corrupts a mouse. A Man in proximity (Boromir) is immediately tempted, and Gandalf Christ does not even dare touch it. The speed and depth of corruption also increases as Sauron grows stronger. The mouse would be a RAAAH in a few days; the moment no one is paying attention it will chew through strings and pockets, break its own ribs to get out of a cage, then turn invisible and disappear. Middle Earth gets Bad End in a fortnight.
Scenario 2: The Ring seeks a better host immediately. Frodo Ringbearer's ownership is a first-line deterrence. He will run and at minimum the Hobbits and Gandalf will immediately defend him because of personal friendship. A mouse has no sentient friends; everyone in the fellowship suffers the ambient temptation unfiltered. Also, Frodo and Sam actually failed, if Frodo's sustained kindness to Gollum didn't cause a hail-mary save. No such save will exist in the Fellowship of the Mouse
>Corrupted Mouse
What Grand Designs would a Mouse even have for the ring?
Hobbits' designs barely go beyond 3rd breakfast, and they're not spared.
Frodo just carrying it under a fortnight going from Shire to Loth is already having a tangible influence.
>Hobbits are sentient
>rats are merely conscious
Animal desires have no language but are more immediate. Think of an untrained dog: no unguarded food or unhumped ankle is safe. A rodent Ringbearer makes the Ring's job simpler.
>HERE NICE
>HERE GOOD
>NOSE IN
>NOSE IN
>HERE HAS FUKK
>HEAD IN YES
>HERE HAS CHEEZ
>NECK YES
>YESSSSS
Frodo had that Ring for years before he undertook the journey with the Fellowship. Besides, possibly anyone who had that Ring would have succumbed to it's powers when they were inside the very volcano where it was created. Remember that Phial that the Elvish queen Galadriel gave to Sam? It didn't work at all in the volcano.
some low IQ homosexual that thinks they're smart wrote this
there's no indication this would apply for a mouse, or that it affects mice in the same way it would sam/frodo in this situation
kill all pseud homosexuals
mutilate pseud homosexuals
Didn't the ring basically start corrupting everyone, though? That was the whole thing with Boromir wanting it even without wearing it.
>everyone is too stupid to understand that Sam wasn't affected by the ring AT ALL and it's explained in the fricking book a real page turner that they obviously didn't bother to read
Cinemaphile you are weak sauce
if he really wasnt affected, why didnt he carry the ring all the way instead?
because Frodo was chosen to be ring barer and he is being affected by it, and Sam is just being extremely supportive like a great friend.
wouldnt the mouse just be controlled by sauron or whatever?
Yes, but not because of what they said.
The Ring didn't influence Sam because Sam had no evil in his heart. His only wish was to see his beautiful home once more.
Something the ring could not promise in any twisted fate.
The darker deep dive is what was in Frodo's heart that allowed him to be so deeply influenced.
Frodo is canonically not a good person entirely.
No, given time it could have influenced Sam too. He just didn't carry it long enough for the Ring to really get its claws in.
according to the notes we have, all the ring could foreseeably do for Sam was offer him incredible farming prowess. Sam however is already a skillful farmer and actually desires to improve of his own accord. the ring is absolutely powerless in regards to Sam.
Or Sam is just a powerhouse
why didn't they launched a satellite with a ring into space?
>Ring affects Boromir when Frodo has it
>Ring affects Smeagol when Deagol has it
sam was literally a ring bearer, he had already wore the ring before this, which is supposed to make the feat of him carrying frodo to mt doom all the more significant
Again, this is bullshit. Transitive still applies, Sam feels the weight of the ring as he carries Frodo. When he says ' I can't carry it for you' he means that last time he took it Frodo forbade him from doing so again, and Frodo is his master so he obeyed him. Unless Frodo dies, he's never taking it again, hence ' I can't carry it for you'. He literally could, honour and loyalty prevents it
This shouldn't need to be explained. He literally did carry it like an hour before this, we know he can carry it, he could only possibly mean that he is nit permitted to, not that he is unable to
You'd just want to take it from the mouse like Boromir wanted to take it from Frodo. It was Sam's brolove for Frodo overpowered any desire for the ring in that moment.
LOTR is a story for young teens, a simple tale of good fighting evil, not a le deep transitory property study for you to analyze you utter fricking morons.
media literacy -1
oh my fauci I hecking LOVE science!!!