Will they ever be allowed to just be a couple again?
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X-MEN
Will they ever be allowed to just be a couple again?
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Wolverinegays would shit their pants and Emmagays would riot so no. Also they've both been tarnished too much at this point to even be a stable couple.
Maybe its because my first main interaction with them outside of some crossover episode in Spider-Man TAS and this X-Men fighting game I had for the PS1, was X-Men Evolution, so I've never been a Wolverine/Jean shipper.
>so I've never been a Wolverine/Jean shipper.
Nobody ever actually was. Not until the movie.
I remember shipping Wolverine and Rogue.
Only way it would work is if they went the in-universe villain route, becoming an Evil Power Couple, with Emma staying heroic (for certain values of heroic) and Wolverine playing up the angst angle for him.
Logan has like 2 million fricking love interests. Why the frick would they care about Jean?
I just remembered Logan has apparently fricked Squirrel Girl
Because they can't stand him losing to Cyclops in anything
I feel like you're projecting onto Wolverine fans.
>they've both been tarnished too much at this point
In the comics, sure. But normies don't read those. They're only exposure to them is in the various animated series where they are always the main couple, and the movies, which admittedly damaged their image as a couple due to the love triangle bullshit but not irreversibly so.
Normies don’t even like it since most of the movies and shows paint Scott as the possessive boyfriend in the way of Logan and Jean’s love.
He isn't portrayed as possessive in the movies, and all the shows have them as endgame. Your pic is even from a show where one of the main plot points was the two of them reuniting after being apart for years.
>He isn't portrayed as possessive in the movies
His first words to Wolverine are “stay away from my girl” anon. And WAXM paint his obsession for Jean in a negative light.
>His first words to Wolverine are “stay away from my girl” anon
Telling some other dude who's flirting with your girl to frick off isn't possessive. It's the morally correct thing to do.
>WAXM paint his obsession for Jean in a negative light.
No, it painted his despair as negative. Him reuniting with Jean is seen as a good thing and their bond with one another literally saves the world in the finale. DYEWTS?
>Telling some other dude who's flirting with your girl to frick off isn't possessive. It's the morally correct thing to do.
It doesn’t really matter how you try to interpret that. Wolverine was the protagonist and so most viewers rooted for him to be with Jean whether it’s right or not is besides the point.
>No, it painted his despair as negative. Him reuniting with Jean is seen as a good thing and their bond with one another literally saves the world in the finale. DYEWTS?
Everyone wanted Jean back dude. It doesn’t change that his obsession of bringing her back was framed negatively all throughout not helped with Emma trying to reach out to him. Casuals watching weren’t interested in seeing him reunite with Jean but to move on with Emma.
>Everyone wanted Jean back dude.
Everyone had moved on. They didn't think about Jean at all.
>his obsession of bringing her back was framed negatively all throughout
His despair and giving up on life was framed negatively, not his love for Jean, which again, saved the entire world at the end.
>most viewers rooted for him to be with Jean
>Casuals watching weren’t interested in seeing him reunite with Jean but to move on with Emma.
You sure do know an awful lot about what other people are thinking. You're not some filthy mutie telepath, are you?
>and all the shows have them as endgame
It's amazing how much the later seasons of Evolution got stuff right about Scott, compared to the beginning.
Evolution in general was a weird show. Like, every series of it has a concrete story- but due to its format, for like two thirds of each one it feels like nothing's fricking happening until suddenly everything is.
Still very enjoyable despite that quirk.
Maybe the first two seasons just had writers who gave no fricks about the classics.
Good, Emmagays are right she was best girl for Scott
as soon as the x-men dump cyclops, jean grey, wolverine and emma frost, the better. all four of them are trash
who cares about them?
Wolverine is marvel's second most popular character..
maybe in your head. groot is more popular
>will sscott ever enter an abusive relationship again?
Should’ve gotten with Psylocke. Or Rogue in Evo.
I want to go back to when things were normal.
You want to go back to when things are normal? Then try making the world a good place again in the best way you can instead of sitting around pining for days gone by.
Mentor cool uncle gym teacher Wolverine is best Wolverine.
Yes
yes
yes
Wolverine and storm fit the power couple thing more. They're two of the three most popular xmen and have actual chemistry.
Yeah I remember seeing a lot of Storm and Wolverine stuff once upon a time. Not so much anymore.
Fr fr. It takes a real woman to handle a man like Logan. Weak as yt b***h wouldn't able to satisfy him like a black queen
>that size difference
Hng
Storm = 5'11"
Wolverine = 5'3"
Wew
agreed. but then again it won't happen, because muh black penispanther
>pro racemixing
In these hallowed halls..
Never ask a White Supremacist the ethnicity of his gf.
Has there ever been a storyline or just a scene with a racist mutie? Surely it's come up. Just cause they've got powers and humans hate them doesn't mean they magically lose their own prejudices.
Avengers vs X-Men
seriously, even Kitty Pryde started in with the racism in that one, it was pure race war baiting from the start
the moment the Phoenix 5 started putting Avengers in literal hell as an indefinite prison for not being mutants, the entire X-Men franchise lost credibility
Nah, I don't mean human-mutant "racism", I mean a mutant who is still racist against people with different skin colors. Like some white kid who hates black people wakes up a mutie one day, he's not gonna stop hating black people. There must be racist muties like that, I was just wondering if it's ever been depicted in canon. Like some white mutie saying he sure as hell ain't never following no Storm Black person.
Struckers kids?
there's a whole bunch of deep south muties so yeah, probably
check Chuck Austen, he'd probably do stuff like that in his run
I think he did something like that
>deep south = racist
Ask me how I know you're a gated community champagne socialist.
anon, are you seriously suggesting the X-Men comic books are going to present realism? the books about pretty people with magic powers?
we all know the south is only marginally more racist than the rest of the country and we also all know that it seems disproportionately important there because a lot of those racists are in government and like to pull their racist shit while in office to try and secure their power
but that doesn't mean that the worst racist shit going on in the country isn't happening there, now that Arizona stopped putting migrant kids in cages to sell to white couples in other states as houseboys
The South has less hate crimes than the rest of the country. That's pretty good, considering over half the black population lives there.
Yankees have always preferred it that way, even back then they didn't want the blacks around them. They wanted them contained here. When they migrated out, it was the South's last frick you.
Gambit seems like the type of LA bayou trash who lives on the outskirts of New Orleans and has nothing positive to say about black people but enters the city proper every weekend and finesses his way into the pants of a few pretty young black girls with nothing but his charm and a couple of Sazeracs because he's only racist when it's a dude.
>because he's only racist when it's a dude.
Objectively based
Gambit grew up as a thief. He wouldn't be going to black neighborhoods to steal shit.
Anon he's from New Orleans. Something like 55% of the population is black.
EVERY neighborhood is the black neighborhood.
True
It'd still be Kitty. Even in the 90s Storm retcon book, she got dreadlocks and tried speakimg Jive just to get under Storm's skin for having a mohawk and being the leader. Kitty unironically is the israelite who says she's down with the movement/civil rights stuff only if you suck her kosher klit then calls you a Flatscan Goyish Black personhomosexual after she's bored of you.
There was a homophobic dude in Eve of Destruction.
Hey man, we know it's fricking disgusting to touch something so filthy, but it's not Storm's fault she has good chemistry with a fricking leaf.
White girls are pretty trash nowadays.
white people are only mad at racemixing bc its typically other people fricking white women
flip it around and they never mind
you ever see white people complain about white men dating asian women? of course not. but let there be a trend of asian men smashing white women and see how the whites will screech
but we know for a fact that white women getting fricked by black guys is like the #1 porn in eg the white counties of Alabama because we have the ip data
they do like it, in fact it's pretty much all they watch from Louisiana to Kentucky to Georgia and back, except in North Carolina where they watch ebony anal which is one of those weird gendered things that porn does where guys are black and women are ebony, so the North Carolinans have good taste
/pol/acks like to meme about it but the only reason they know what blacked is is because it's all they frickin watch for porn
go cry to your wife while she's getting bred at a motel 6
nah thats yours you homosexual israelite
Wolverine will never have a long lasting relationship, it doesn't matter who with. He's the biggest self-insert in Marvel Comics, some edgelord writer will have him fricking someone new within a year.
Based and rolo pilled. Geninluny the best x-men ship.
I always shipped him with Carol t b h. They can be drunks with a chip on their shoulder together, and their outfit motifs fit.
they've already had a thing in the past
she's been passed around like a bottle of crown
>she's been passed around like a bottle of crown
That applies to nearly all female heroines.
>Logan and Carol had prison sex
What?
>pic
Geez, I can feel sorry for her. Was it just Rogue or Galactus that did all that damage?
Not the biggest fan, but its alright.
Sex
>They're two of the three most popular xmen
Is Storm really that popular?
Yeah, also only behind cyclops and logan in terms of number of apperences.
Why? Everytime I see someone talk about her it's either talking about how she should've stayed a nudist or powerlevel wanking.
But that's most of Cinemaphile with characters tbh.
She's one of the two traditional leaders of the team and one of the characters with the most dynamics and character ties. And you know one of the big all new additions to the team.
It's non-fans not knowing the comics complaining about things that have been happening the entire time she's been a character, mostly because she's a non-white woman.
My brother.
Haven't they BEEN a couple for years now?
I mean Wolverine's also been a part in it because Krakoa law allows and encourages polygamy and rampant baby-making but still?
>Krakoa law allows and encourages polygamy and rampant baby-making but still?
And we still haven't got an actual depiction of threesome. I just want to see Jean getting double penetrated. Officially, not Tracy Scopsverse.
Which self inserters are worse? Scottgays or Logangays?
Why? They've always kind of sucked as a couple.
You're supposed to outgrow your high school boyfriend/girlfriend.
>You're supposed to outgrow your high school boyfriend/girlfriend.
I'm sorry your high school crush never gave you the time of day.
I'm sorry you never did better than a teenage girl you met in school.
Considering I married her and we have two kids I'd say I did all right.
Vased
Fukken rekt.
Why?
Nice b8 m8, you shall have many updoots (yous) here take this gold
You're not 'supposed' to fall out of love. It just happens. It's not some fricking goal you strive for.
No, you're supposed to marry young and procreate and have healthy children.
This shit where people don't even start dating their significant other until they're in their early to mid-30's and pop out one or two kids in their early 40's while the woman has maybe 5% of her eggs left is not natural.
How many times did a comic couple ever become a normal couple again after breaking up?
I wanna say Superman and Lois had a firced break up stint at one point for cheap drama, but smoothed it over quick.
Superman and Wonder Woman are a better couple.
Naw. Superman is such an normie wannabe that he's the one super who would need a normie human gf
>t. Batgay
Gambit and Rogue were broken up more than a few times, but are happily married now, I think that counts
they ain't giving most iconic Peter and Felicia a good writing team so don't hold much hope OP, Marvel is against growth and happiness
I'd say the couple that lasted 30 years counts more than the one that lasted what 3?
They didn't last 30 years
Peter isn't middle aged.
Time doesn't exist in Marvel.
30 years irl anon, those count lmao.
Not really
What development happened?
Marriage?
A kid?
Woops!
Peter and Felicia are soulmates anon, it's a known fact. Not that matters much when the "creative" team *writes* current Asm though.
>use the version where she ends up hating him and where he ends with mj according to the writers
>soul mates
Not according to both God and the devil
She only hated him because Pete didn’t fricking explain himself.
Because her dad killed his uncle that raised him.
This is not spider-man thread piss off.
Once Wolverine and Nightcrawler get together, at last.
ELF.
Mein Gott.
SEXO
hope not
cyclops belongs to emma
wolveirine should be with the resurrected mariko
>Emma
I think Scott should just stay away from telepaths.
isn't he being positioned to get with Hope now?
Based Kitty.
Oh, saved 🙂
Didn't know about the inspiration for it - This famous scene was clearly a project and I'm sure the creators had a good fap to it as did many of us seeing this on TV.
It was very much so.
No one likes them together.
bait used to be believable.
You have to learn to move on from hos.
Black Panther and Storm is a cringe ship tbqh.
What's your mutant OC like? Don't lie. I know you have one. Mine's a psychometric who bangs Jubilee.
I always liked jubes with jono ngl.
I like Jono and want him to be happy, but Jubes is my waifu so.
Yeah but moody guy and girl that says dude is just such a fun dynamic.
No Jubes is mine. Chamber can date someone whose face he can't melt off.
Yeah but jubilee is the only chick crazy enough to try and suck his dick. After annoyingly asking him if its on fire too all day.
Hot jubes
cute
Jono?
Chamber from generation X
I have several, the current one's powers are basically jacked from Wildstorm's Apollo
Isn't Apollo just a Superman pastiche? How's that work?
Their mutation makes them get all those sweet powers via sunlight but like Apollo he can run out if he's not careful.
Jubilee should finally get with Synch.
Orgy island should have led to the Jubilee-Everett-Monet throuple all true genX fans wanted.
Gooman, a person with complete control of his molecules that are a tar-like substance. He can transform, force molecules not to move making him indestructable, light up, etc. A big weakness though is he still feels pain, mental exhaustion, and so on while requiring a large amount of focus to shape himself. If he's not able to do that, he just becomes a puddle of goo.
Do like a mutant Clayface? Or more like Alex Mercer?
Jubilee needs a symbiote.
Hasnt that happened already.
Jubilee is an underrated xmen waifu
>What's your mutant OC like?
A dude can train anyone to do almost anything in a three day montage. Need to teach Rogue to control her power? Montage. Need to learn coding? Montage. The only downside is that it gets weird and what happens reflects on what song they pick. Even he doesn't know what is going to happen.
Not fond of it.
I miss vampire Jubes.
How are they not a couple currently? What is it with fanboys and their weirdo parasocial polyamory relationships?
>Marvel fumbles the ball and doesn't push Northstar as an OG gay
Have you seen the Insomniac leaks? Wolverine took his girl AND his villain
>Be Claremont
>Have Wolverine bring Jean some flowers.
>Only have a few panels mentioning it.
>Simple enough.
>Seemed unrequited.
>Later Wolverine seems creepy towards Jean, still unrequited.
>Decide to completely retcon this as Wolverine now has a lot more popularity.
>So in Classic X-Men back up stories make it seem more of a love triangle.
>(Classic X-Men was a reprint series but with some new edits and back up stories to flesh out old Claremont issues.)
>Have Scott actually reach a sorta okay place after Jean's death.
>But still that confusion over Madelyne Pryor.
>Kurt Busiek helps push the idea of bringing Jean back and the OG X-men because of his hate boner for Giant Size and Claremont's run.
>Have Scott leave his wife and child and ruin him as a character.
>Only really recovers when you get round to him and Emma.
>Animated adaptations and movies all focus heavily on Wolverine and the love triangle again while shitting completely on this relationship.
Emma was shit. Emma did shit for his character. The only hing Emma ever did was frick her way to the be the queen of the mutants and act like a massive c**t the whole time. Scott was shit with her and she was a b***h who only sometimes made a pouty face about how much she WUBBED HIM and this was supposed to make them the OTP. Her character was destroyed after Gen X. Emma can go to hell.
I like gen x emma or whenever she taught kids like in the academy x stuff, but her and scott has a really bad fundation.
God, I want Emma to be my teacher.
>Kurt Busiek helps push the idea of bringing Jean back and the OG X-men because of his hate boner for Giant Size and Claremont's run.
Busiek was a Literally Who? nobody in 1985, he didn't have any pull to force Jean's return. But he was a guy who knew Roger Stern. Marvel wanted to bring Jean back, but they needed to find a way to do it that Jim Shooter would allow, and Stern was "I know a guy who has an idea".
>Only really recovers when you get round to him and Emma.
No, now he'd left TWO wives, fans of Scott/Jean hated it, any fans of Scott/Maddie still around didn't like it either, and
is basically right about how much damage the whole thing did to him as a character, there are just too many readers who prefer him as that Diet Magneto character he turned into during his time with her.
>readers who prefer him as that Diet Magneto character he turned into during his time with her.
I refuse to believe anyone actually likes that era beyond the meme appeal. The whole Rightclops thing is a giant joke.
>No, now he'd left TWO wives
This makes no sense. He had already been fricked up anyway.
The first time ended up having the damage control that he'd been manipulated into marrying an evil clone, and soon enough became ancient history that was only mentioned again when it had to be. He recovered from it as much as was possible, and then the same kind of thing happens all over again, and the entire Scott/Emma relationship is built on him cucking Jean with no damage control to justify or mitigate it. It's tearing open all the old damage and making it even worse, with no attempt at repair, just a constant "please like Scott/Emma more, please think it's better" from the writers. Some people even fell for it.
Wait busiek pushed for that? Silveragegays are the worst.
>Have Scott leave his wife and child and ruin him as a character.
>Only really recovers when you get round to him and Emma.
X-Factor was literally the best era for Scott/Jean. All the drama because Scott loved Jean and Phoenix and Maddy and they were all being treated as three separate characters, but they pull together and are stronger for it, in the end.
It's really the only time they were good together as a couple. That stretch of comics in the late 80s.
Not a fan of the married era?
It was bad. They were the generic prom king/queen the casuals accuse them of being. Then there's the Scott/Betsy and Jean/Logan stuff where all of them look like shitty people instead of good people in bad situations, and there's not much to like.
X-Factor book was pretty damn shit early on with the OG team and only picked up later on. It was bland as frick out of the X-line at the time.
Pic related was Busiek's letter to the editor when he was a fan before he worked for them. He hated it with a passion.
He literally gave them some of the ideas that they used for Jean's return. Sure you might say they were angling for a return anyway, but he is still slap bang in the middle of the story.
I'm more surprised by the more professional response. That was made today someone would be on twitter demanding blood or telling him flat out to frick off and die.
>That was made today
Someone on Cinemaphile got a letter published in the America Chavez comic by the awful Gabby Rivera comparing the comic to The Room.
Letter pages are genuinely interesting to read in old comics because they did sometimes choose to respond to some interesting stuff. The worst letter pages for me were when Kirby came to DC and the editors just published the most horrible letters to shit all on Kirby.
>He hated it with a passion.
If Jean was his waifu he had a reasonable excuse.
>He literally gave them some of the ideas that they used for Jean's return. Sure you might say they were angling for a return anyway, but he is still slap bang in the middle of the story.
He's part of the story, but if it wasn't his idea they used, they'd have come up with something else eventually because people within Marvel wanted to bring her back, and there was feeling that they NEEDED her back to make X-Factor truly work as a reunion of the original X-Men. It was going to happen some way, somehow. People who are salty about it keep talking like bringing Jean back at all was entirely Busiek's idea that he single-handedly made happen, when that just isn't true.
>but if it wasn't his idea they used
https://aiptcomics.com/2020/02/25/it-was-literally-a-fannish-game-kurt-busiek-explains-how-he-helped-resurrect-jean-grey/
They used his Jamaica Bay idea.
Did you miss the "if" in that sentence? IF it wasn't his idea they used, they'd have come up with something else.
The point is that Marvel were 100% committed to finding some way to bring Jean back. That they used an idea Busiek provided doesn't mean bringing her back in the first place was all on him, they were already trying to figure out a way to do it.
I didn't miss the if. Obviously Jim Shooter wanted Jean to return if she could be resolved of Dark Phoenix crimes. No one has denied that.
Would you say Shooter allowing Jean to come back was a big mistake?
Killing her in the first place was the bigger mistake, we wouldn't have the whole trend of event stories where someone important dies if not for the big 2 chasing the success of the Dark Phoenix Saga.
It says a lot about readers who want to keep all the event deaths but don't want the flip side of the coin where the character they killed is important or has fans so they need to be brought back.
>People who are salty about it keep talking like bringing Jean back at all was entirely Busiek's idea that he single-handedly made happen, when that just isn't true.
Eh no one has said that. They have pointed out that he was kind of a salty individual. Two different points you're confusing.
Man ive lost a lost of respect for busiek, and good god claremont wrote a classy response.
This shit is just fandom in general. Some diehards will always dislike something whether it is good or not. Of course people now will argue that most modern stuff is just bad. Which I am not commenting on. Just that people have always gotten invested and then gotten mad at a new thing.
Maybe, altough with marvel its that these people then ran the asylum and it seeped into a lot.
And tbh one fan publication disliking ESB isn't really the same.
>Maybe, altough with marvel its that these people then ran the asylum and it seeped into a lot.
And what do you think happened with modern Star Wars? Why is it so bad?
Not really, the star wars thing is out of touch executives and an overreaction to the prequels, although I guess with the directors and such maybe.
Pablo Hidalgo, who is one of the Lucas Art creative executives and basically head of the canon, has been shitting on fans for years and mocked someone for being emotional about Luke's cameo in Mandalorian.
The SW rot is far deeper than you think.
>Head of the canon
Anon, everyone that does the big material just ignores him. He's just got that marvel "frick the fans" attitude because he thinks his job makes him better, its not super deep.
Star wars issues arent long decay, its that George (for better or worse) built his company around his presence and not a typical Hollywood system and then the Hollywood people torched what he made unintentionally because they tried to do what they always do to maximize profits short term.
>its not super deep.
I never said it was. But there are numerous writers and creatives on that franchise who make it bad. Same with Marvel. That's all.
>Star wars issues arent long decay, its that George (for better or worse) built his company around his presence and not a typical Hollywood system and then the Hollywood people torched what he made unintentionally because they tried to do what they always do to maximize profits short term.
Half of the SW problem was not that they wanted short termism but that they wanted a franchise on par with modern Marvel but completely fricked it up. I feel like half your points though aren't even connecting with what I am saying though, tbh.
Fair, but hidalgo is a glorified blog poster. He and chee's jobs are trying to make sure everyone doesn't contradict each other or smoothing out when they do, they don't really have creative power.
Yeah that's what I'm saying, or trying to say, look man I'm tired as frick holiday shopping's murder.
>but hidalgo is a glorified blog poster
The only power he has had is in shitting on the EU a lot. But Disney completely fricked that up anyway.
>Half of the SW problem was not that they wanted short termism but that they wanted a franchise on par with modern Marvel but completely fricked it up.
No no, they're putting it on par alright, in a downright spiral.
He succeeded in pissing off readers, how's that for a resume?
>Star Wars fandom have actually been reeeeeing about new movies all the way back to the second one
That should be unsurprising, but seeing it go that far back IS surprising.
It is a bit facetious. Three fanzines arent really comparable to the larger reception around ROTJ or the even larger one that spread like wildfire on the internet over the prequels or the one that spread like a plague over the sequels. Some level of the attitude might have always existed, but inertia makes it bigger each time from fairly insigificant.
Fanzines, letters and stuff are often on par with internet shit posts. Some stuff changes while other stuff stays the same.
You know I'm not gonna pretend that fandom didn't always have it's bad eggs, that the idea of petty angry shit posters is new, but goddamn do I have more respect for the angry fan that actually puts in the actual physical effort of building and running shit compared to the fans of today that just post on social media sites. The biggest problem with fandom is that it got too easy.
Maybe, but back then it was shouting into the void, now its impossible for them to ignore it when engagement is quantified and clear and reaches farther than ever before.
>The biggest problem with fandom is that it got too easy.
Cinemaphile is a great example. So much more OC used to be made. People on Cinemaphile used to make recommended comic images. The Cinemaphile recommended comics tumblr hasn't been updated in 9 years! Anyone can say they are a fan of something. It is simple to do so. But people used to go see a movie a bunch of times to make notes of how a costume looked to then make the costume. Or produce a fanzine. Or actually go to specialist conventions. And now what do we get? People used to actually connect over the things they enjoyed, even if sometimes they would argue like shit. Nowadays everyone can only tear shit down because putting your head above the parapet to say you liked something is tantamount to murder. It is a regressive cycle. I am rambling.
>Tumblr
Well that site died.
Sure, but there is a deeper point. Recommendations on every clickbait site is as stagnant as that old tumblr is. That tumblr just had a bunch of collections taken from Cinemaphile. But no one on Cinemaphile can get organised to make them anymore. So the culture becomes locked in a cycle where those recommended books are read, reprinted, recommended.
Why do you think House of M is so popular? Or other events that shit on stuff? To connect back to the OP and the thread... comics end up repeating the same shit a lot because they are trapped by these kinds of cycles.
You realize there isn't much worth recommending anymore, right?
Cut him some slack he was probably a kid when he wrote that.
>Kid
He was 20 years old anon.
Okay and think about what you were like when you were 20. Spoilers. You were a douche. 20 is hardly your most mature final form.
...I'm 25.
And you're a douche you just won't realize it for another decade.
Fair, i do post here. Regardless busiek has said similar stuff recently and is one of those comic fans, its just so strange seeing such a clear example.
Honestly, Kurt's reaction makes all sense. We're all very much used to claremontisms and all, but when the Hellfire Club stuff came out, "what the diddily FRICK am I reading" sounds like a reasonable response.
I mean comic fans are generally expected and willing to go along with a lot but that whole hellfire business really felt like Claremont going full Claremont if you get me. The guy was never shy about his fetishes but this just went weird fast.
As much as I like the guy, he was really the kind of author that need a short leash.
Yeah, he's pretty much the guy who got me into comics and I'll argue tooth and nail that his run is one of the GOATS but fricking hell, man, I'd really be curious to know was going on in those writers rooms.
Marvel Bullpen, 1980s
>Shooter: Chris.....what the hell is this?
>Claremont: Mate, it's the Hellfire Club and--
>Shooter: This is a bondage club, you sick bastard.
>Claremont: Welllll, yes but no--
>Shooter: For frick sake, what did I tell you? NO. FETISHISM. OR LESBIANS.
>Claremont:........Avengers #200.
>Shooter: You know what, get the frick out of my office. AND FRICK YOU BRYNE!
>Bryne: I didn't even do anything!
>Shooter: Just getting it out the way. Hama?
>Larry Hama: For the last time, no Jim, I'm not giving you my uzi to have a nice day. Or Chris or John.
Lol pretty much
Exactly. And now we get shit like Krakoa and we get to see Destiny giving birth on page and like... I never asked for this. It's kinda easy to see where young Busiek was coming from.
Maybe but busiek's idelogical angle by most writers has proven to be poisonous long term.
I wonder tho, has he said anything about x-men more recently?
yeah, on cbr. some folks wanted him to write an x-book. ugh
Really? Outside of a silver age wank book, what would he even fit for?
nothing
>that last line
I want to believe it was like this.
there are pictures
Who's in the Spider-Woman costume?
uhhhh louise simonson?htwrdy
Good post until the Emma bit.
Both were too ruined to even work as functional couple.
in the 90s
Not with Jean, no. If you brought back Madelyne Pryor, tho... oh boy!
Nope. Cyke should get the hell out of that toxic b***h and start over with someone more stable.
>Madelyne Pryor
But she's around and fricking Alex
don't let the sniktbub win. refuse resist. frick wolverine
I want sknitbub with ororo not with jean
It's never been good for either of them so hopefully not
Emma is for grooming young girls like Kitty and Kamala.
Always liked emma and sean, but there's like 0 fanart.
>Will they ever be allowed to just be a couple again?
Too late Scott, Jean's pussy has been permanently reshaped by Canadian manlet dick
Wolverine/Storm is cringe. He should bang some random Jap prostitute.
It is my understanding that Storm is going to be stuck as a Black Panther supporting character soon.
Because they're black, literally the only reason.
That was just an embarrassing time for everyone
Not really. She's just in the ultimate black phanter book.
They tried this already and it sucked.
They have nothing in common besides being black Africans and Storm was reduced to a fancy decoration in Wakanda.
I really remember that just being so weird. Have they even ever MET prior to that?
For me its
>solo woverine with mariko
>x-men wolverine with ororo
Every other couple sucks for him
>solo woverine with mariko
He had a family with her in the Mutant X continuity.
>t. T'Challagay
Literally never. Comics can't end & relationships never stick unless they're forgotten forced interracial ones.
When will Bobby and Rogue be a thing again
They barely were
>Make Bobby gay over using Jean-Paul
Why are they like this
That was bendis. He's... special.
Yeah I know his early life section.
Bendis just was angry he was dating kitty.
Nah it had to be more than that, otherwise just write them having a break up.
You don't understand the mind of a man whose waifu is dating the wrong guy. He doesn't just want them broken up, he wants to make sure it can never happen ever again, and this is the most effective permanent way of making sure Bobby/Kitty will never be a thing in comics or any adaptation ever again.
Until one day someone changes it because despite Cinemaphile being doomcuckpilled, it will change one day.
We don't live in a society where a gay fictional character can be made not-gay, no matter how much their being gay is an unpopular retcon that's hurting their marketability and performance. It's not going to happen, and it's unlikely there's anyone in the comics industry who'd want to try. For all the talk of DC's pool of writers being mostly people with no ideas except which character to turn gay or trans next, Marvel's talent pool is probably similar, given how much writers move between the big 2.
But dude like, one panel from the 60s where he didn't immediately fawn over Jean (despite fawning for her later anyways, going completely gaga for Lorna and so many others)
>Will they ever be allowed to just be a couple again?
Considering that both the big 2 can't write relationships and have both decreed that their heroes can never even have a bit of happiness, no, we will never see that shit again properly. I mean frick, relationships in the big 2 remind me of fricking Eastenders, a British soap opera. Every Christmas special, or wedding, someone dies or cheats or gets put in a coma. My cousin had never been to a wedding before but only watched soap opera weddings and when she went to an actual wedding she was disappointed that it was relatively boring.
Like maybe early MCU X-Men will have some Jean and Scott only to build towards Logan cuckery or Dark Phoenix for a third time. X-Men '97 will have some of it for nostalgia purposes. Maybe the comics will go back to a basic roster post Krakoa. But any amount of it you'll get will be bitter sweet before it is cucked, ruined or killed.
>But any amount of it you'll get will be bitter sweet before it is cucked, ruined or killed.
They may give you a brief taste of what you want before ripping it away from you with a shocking death or an unwanted love triangle that ends in cheating and cucking, and then they'll try to string you along indefinitely with the hope that eventually things will work out. They've been doing this for a long time and have got the formula perfected.
Its really just aspecific editorial mindset, but these always shift, generally to something worse but who knows.
My favourite is the Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy shit. You'd think that in a modern age they'd constantly push this shit as them being diverse. But they have literally had two stories in recent years where they pratically break up because Poison Ivy doesn't want to end a life of crime and then a Poison Ivy plant clone thing appears. Like they will literally string anyone along with some bait and then do the same shit.
>They've been doing this for a long time and have got the formula perfected.
Comics are run by editorial/commercial reasons not creative decisions.
>Villains are hard to come up with, Joker dies in his first appearance so we will change the last panel where they realise he is actually still alive, just.
>Eventually evolves into the Hero declares they won't kill! philosophy.
>Coming up with origins for powers takes time so we will have mutants, so we ain't gotta explain it.
>Spider-Man was misunderstood by people and JJJ, Hulk is misunderstood, Avengers and FF have PR issues, X-Men had the same issues; get one idea and it sticks.
Breevort's just a moron however.
Not to mention short sighted. He's not wrong that you're gonna get a quick short term rise out of fans but eventually anger leads to apathy and apathy leads to... well here we are. Everything going on right now that would have made me furious is now just boring me. I gave up and don't care. I haven't bought a marvel comic in well over a decade.
Again this is the man behind the moronic spider-man manifesto, the genius that couldn't make avengers or iron man sell when they were the hottest IP ever, the guy that edited civil war 2, the guy that's now going to head x-men (god have mercy)
Does breevort have a single success to his name?
>Comics are run by editorial/commercial reasons not creative decisions.
You can try to justify the Spider-Man relationship situation as a commercial decision, that they truly believe a married Spider-Man is less marketable, but there's no editorial or commercial reason why characters who belong to team books can't be married, happy and stable when there are other characters in the book who can have all the drama instead. Whether Cyclops is married to Jean, married to an evil clone of Jean, single, dating a literal stinking unwashed prostitute, or gay with Wolverine isn't likely to affect the overall sales of X-Men much, so it IS a creative decision more than a commercial one. Brevoort was an architect of Marvel's Anger Sells police at least as far back as the 90s, but it's had diminishing returns over the years, it hasn't worked in a long time.
>Spider-man unmarried is more marketable
Funny...because the highest selling spider-man comic had him married, and the book sales went down during BND.
Yes, they're wrong and everyone here except a few obvious shills knows they're wrong, but they've convinced themselves Spider-Man "is about youth" and that being married "ages him" and damages the brand somehow.
They're wrong, but they at least have an unshakeable belief that they're right and they honestly think they're doing what's best for business. There's no comparable situation with any of the married couples on the X-Men or Avengers or elsewhere that they've ruined, that's all just NOT MUH or some moron breaking all the toys permanently for some short-term drama.
Sure, but lets also not pretend like the moment that breevort and whoever else is holding that idea leaves that there wont be massive w hiplash to go all in in 90s/00s marriage nostalgia.
And there was a similar seething hatred for the superman marriage, down to OMD/BND being originally a superman story.
The spider-man thing is just "not muh" to the extreme.
What annoys me is how many people will defend all the stupid shit the put Spider-man through and then turn around say we just hate development when they were the ones who backtracked his biggest development of all time.
You misunderstand. When I say comics are run by editorial/commercial decisions, I don't mean to say that they are logical ones. Their perception is probably that they are making the correct ones, when they aren't. The problem is that some stuff has crossed from editorial to creative, such as the not killing for editorial/commercial, becoming core character philsophies. So even those creative decisions that seem like creative ones and driven by some moronic ear worm from an old editorial decision.
Aren't Logan and Scott fricking in the current comics?
Right up the butt.
No. Everyone has to be polyamorous now.
I think what just annoys, no, depresses me to no end is just the general lack of reverence modern creators have for the history of the creations. It doesn't matter if you mean marvel or dc. It's both. Just think about all the history, all the milestones and how all that is being wasted on a generation of creators who have no regard for anything and have more irony and disdain than even the most cynical depiction of 80/90s culture ever had. There's no wide eyed wonder and excitement. No dreams of a better anything. It's just dismay and food.
To play devils advocate I think it is impossible to tell any comic book story that won't piss someone off.
And even if you pay reverence to something in a characters history it can end up bad. Bryne shit on Wanda and Vision. Bendis shit on Wanda. Feige shit on Wanda. It is a cycle. Do you pay reverence to Wanda by following those people?
>To play devils advocate I think it is impossible to tell any comic book story that won't piss someone off.
Of course. There's no pleasing everyone. There never is. People will complain if you draw the webbing on Spidey's mask wrong or Batman's ears too long or short. What I mean though is that writers have a fundamental disrespect for the material. We've gone from not making everyone happy to not making anyone happy. Instead of doing your best job and TRYING to tell a fun exciting imaginative story you get people making a pigs breakfast of it all because they're spiteful of the material.
>What I mean though is that writers have a fundamental disrespect for the material.
It is funny though because that is literally how Kurt Busiek felt about Giant Size X-Men and Claremont's run:
And yet those X-men are now considered classic despite the fact they were made to be a purposefully internationalist team who sidelined the OG team.
Of course the argument that would be made is that modern stuff is not on the same quality, which I would agree with. All I am saying is that some stuff was, in its day, considered a disrespect of the material and yet it stuck.
>who sidelined the OG team.
I dunno the timeline exactly but at the least Beast was an Avenger. I think Scott and Jean might’ve been the ones with the least to do and they stayed after Giant Size
Beast was an Avenger who did come back in some arcs like dark Phoenix.
Angel and Iceman had some different stuff, solo or Defenders or something like that. They were in the proverbial desert for a while until X Factor.
>It is funny though because that is literally how Kurt Busiek felt about Giant Size X-Men and Claremont's run:
This is more extreme than that. This is an outright disgust not just for the material but for the medium itself.
>Do you pay reverence to Wanda by following those people?
I've seen people here literally defend modern stories mistreating them, or the MCU copying those writers' work on the grounds that the weight of all that history means they're SUPPOSED to be a tragic story that ends in death and misery, rather than it just being one autist with a hateboner wrecking them, and moronic hacks and anti-shippers following in his wake.
In other words, if you don't cut the cancer out quickly and kill it, it becomes part of "the history" and some people start thinking that's how things are meant to be. Sometimes those people are running adaptations.
To make things even worse, a lot of people not just in comics but across the entire entertainment industry seem willing to make important creative decisions and casting choices based entirely on what might make people they don't like angry for a few minutes. That's no way to run a business and it's no way to create entertainment.
They're fighting an imaginary enemy to chase an audience that doesn't exist.
>I've seen people here literally defend modern stories mistreating them
There is a whole cadre of people who think x story is cool because of spectacle. And the next level of people just follow whatever a recommended list says is that characters best stories even if those stories are only important in setting up a new shit status quo. Then you have people who only share panels and act like fans of those characters. The social media bubble maintaining the shit modern stories as being some kind of modern definitive character moment shows you how shit comics fans can be. Most fans of a character have such a surface level of a character born from reading the same few reprints, regardless of quality, that their idea of who a character is ignores 99% of the published material.
A comic character only really exists in a small narrow field of what adaptations have been made and vague notions of character history that are treated like sacred facts for internet people to repeat as if they are clever for knowing it.
>Do you pay reverence to Wanda by following those people?
No, I pay reverence to Wanda with my undying love for her.
Which is?
>Bryne shit on Wanda and Vision. Bendis shit on Wanda.
AND Vision. He ended up dead for a good while.
i hate that homosexual
Bryne or Bendis?
Bendis
It really drives me up a wall any time I see someone praise or defend Krakoa.
The idea of an island base and resurrection protocols and secret councils and shit is cool in theory, but in practice they never did anything too interesting with them. Like, how about the fact we have two Lauras now? Why hasn't that been a big plot point? The two never really interacted after like one scene and that's such an interesting story they you could tell with it, have her reconnect with her pseudo family from her 2010 run, with Gambit, Jubilee, Wolverine, ect. Have Nightcrawler speak to her since it's a very weird thing, one soul splitting in two, in a sense. It could make for a really interesting character moment regarding religion and faith. Hell, speaking of, why wasn't Kurt more up in arms about something that was basically legit resurrection? That could have been a really strong story beat too that, as far as I know, was just glossed over. It could have had a neat story with the more religious characters like him, Gambit, Rogue ect to have actual, legit thoughts on the specifics of the protocols.
But all of that cool, interesting potential was ignored, which is such a shame and why I have beef with the era, not even getting into how moronic the mutants were to deal even slightly with Mr. Sinister.
Either way, I have a morbid curiosity where things are going next
It's kinda of a shame when Logan just dropped his doubts about Krakoa he had at the start of the series. Dude was outright calling out Charles for working with their most dangerous foes.
I missed the part where Wolverine was cool with the situation instead of just doing what he always did for the team.
Let's be honest, depending on whether you want to count Magneto's Genosha or not, Krakoa is the X-books' third or fourth attempt at doing a mutant ethnostate, only this time with all of the villains invited along, and with some surface-level worldbuilding where any problems are either immediately overcome because the story is just about mutants winning everything effortlessly, or they weren't actually problems in the first place and you just need to let go of your outdated human thinking and morality. It's just been an empty, vapid power fantasy of a mutant ethnostate flexing on the world, then the universe for years, and even the fall of Krakoa isn't a result of their own hubris and arrogance, or their crimes being exposed. It's some obvious bad guys framing them with false flag attacks to trick people into hating them for things they didn't do, instead of getting people to justifiably hate them for the things they did do.
Hickman's story was never going to be good in the first place, but when he got pushed out and the franchise got completely taken over by creepy gay writers it had no chance of salvation.
Yep
Why was Hickman pushed out?
Hickman wanted to move on to the next act of his story, after Krakoa falls, everyone else wanted to keep playing with the Krakoa setting and stay in the "mutants win everything and flex on everyone" part of his saga indefinitely.
Did the X-Men have any actual enemy during the Krakoa era? I didnt read everything but Orchis didnt really feel like they existed as a factor unless you need them to win out of nowhere or someone to punch and the rest of the enemys were literally just other mutants who live on the same fricking island. It feels really tiny to know that 90% of threats are just your own neighbours or some other mutants who currently are not your neighbours. Imagine if every enemy the Avengers fight is literally just themselves while sometimes Red Skull shows up and fights them directly causing very easily replacable damage that has no consequences.
The X-men were the enemies int he Krakoan era. God I hated everything about them. They straight up tried to kidnap Franklin Richards in front of his parents because HUR DURR MUTANTS BETTER IN ETHNOSTATE.
>It's just been an empty, vapid power fantasy of a mutant ethnostate
It was a power fantasy for lefties who want a gay minority ethnostate to own the white man
I liked it and there's nothing you can do about it. enjoy your gay mansion retreat homosexual
i want it simply because i want wolverine and storm to frick
We need a 3-hour Wolverine and Jean sex scene in the next X-Men movie.
Why doesn't Mr Sinister just open a Mutant Sperm Bank?
Normal sperm-banks in the marvel universe can't be taking mutants as donors at all. Just provide the worlds first mutant sperm bank chain and boom, all the mutant DNA and genes you'd want for your experiments.
At this point I think he'd even dress like a nurse and volunteer to give Scott a handy, just for more prime Summers baby batter.
Sadly their relationship is too tainted for people to just turn a blind eye and pretend they're wholesome. From Maddie to Wolverine, then Emma, then the disgusting shit with Bishop and finally the poly stuff.
Seriously, just pair Scott with a different chick. Jean just ain’t it.
hmmm sometimes I wonder how fans would react to Jean ending up with Peter Parker, Spider-gays would probably have a meltdown lol.
Damn, Pete
OG Pete was a Chad.
I miss him. I don't know why people think he has to be some perpetual nerd loser. I see people often say him being a nerd was what made him relatable but that was never true. He was a normal-ish fellow far longer than he was ever a geek. He was relatable because his origin was born out of human flaws. He had a massive chip on his shoulder, let his power go to his head and it bit him in the ass and he only took the moral the way he did because his good qualities outweighed his bad.
He’s a “normie” and fanboys hate that. They’re the ones who want him to be a loser like them.
Not really, only an in-group wants him to be a loser forever, becuase they resent when he's not. And confuse everyman for always shat on.
Reading the comics made me realise Peter was never a nerd or outsider. b***hes were all over him all the time to the point that the only thing relatable about him is that he too had a family member he knew die.
That's not really true, he was an outsider in his debut issue. And in ditko's days he was conflictive. By romita he had a friend gruop
The problem is "nerd" used to just mean "studious." Pete was a nerd because he wanted to do well in school to try and pay back his aunt and uncle and live up their hopes for him that he would miss out on stuff. He wasn't afraid to talk to people, ask girls out or any of that sort. He just wasn't Joe Footballstar. Later when he got out into the real world it was just normal that being Joe Footballstar wasn't the big deal it was in high school so he had an easier time getting on with people because THAT'S NORMAL! These days, however, being a nerd means you have to be some meek, bumbling, fanboy adorkable moron and it's less about making pop culture references and more about showing the world your toys.
So how would a Ditko Peter fare if he was in high school NOW?
Ditko Peter would kick Tom Holland's ass.
It's been a while since I've read early Spider-man, but Peter was a half-step removed from pulling a columbine before Uncle Ben died.
No he fricking wasn’t. Enough with this misconception.
Shut the frick up.
Guess that changes something. Today for me atleast nerd means being really obsessed with one subject. To think people had insults for others who studied.
Did everyone forget that Xavier ALSO had creepy stalker obsession with Jean?
Whose pet waifu was Jean anyway? Why the frick is she apparently the most desired b***h in the universe?
Redheads, dude. Hot on the outside, but toxic on the inside. They’re nothing but problems.
But reportedly, kiss like dynamite.
Telepaths make you want to frick them or else.
>Whose pet waifu was Jean anyway? Why the frick is she apparently the most desired b***h in the universe?
She was the only girl in 1960s X-Men, which meant a lot of guys wanted her. It's a similar situation with Storm in Claremont-era X-Men where everyone they meet seems to be lusting for her.
Other Marvel team books had a similar thing, like Sue in FF, or with Jan, then Wanda in Avengers.
This isn't really fair on Jean, she was never "toxic" until the writers after her last death started trying to retcon her marriage with Scott as a toxic relationship to try and make Scott/Emma look better in comparison, then Benis wrote teen Jean as an awful toxic person, and some of that carried over to the modern treatment of adult Jean when she came back, because writers weren't willing to read older comics for reference and just looked at the last book any version of her had been in, plus the general toxicity of most mutant characters in the modern era making things worse.
>after her last death started trying to retcon her marriage with Scott as a toxic relationship to try and make Scott/Emma look better in comparison
FoX-Men movie fanboys started pushing Jean/Wolverine in everything and fans started to realize that Jean was a bad wife. Then she died.
>This isn't really fair on Jean, she was never "toxic" until the writers after her last death started trying to retcon her marriage with Scott as a toxic relationship to try and make Scott/Emma look better in comparison,
I mean that's really the big thing. Scott and Jean never DIDN'T work until writers started going full moron. You can point fingers at Claremont to if you want with that whole Dark Phoenix shit but there was a lot of years before AND AFTER that they were by all accounts a perfect couple.
Honestly before she was made jean's clone i really liked madeline and scott as a couple, there was something so nice about their love story.
It keeps getting said but Maddie got done dirty and nobody's ever really tried to give her a mulligan.
Mulligan?
Golf term. Means a do over.
It seems getting fricked over as a character is an X-Men tradition since X-Factor #1
Try the Dark Phoenix Saga.
>the best xmen story is being fricked over
Wow
I’d like a story where Pete would be the guy who had to protect the socially awkward Harry from bullies. Norman would despise the weak and dweeby Harry, but favor the strong and confident Peter due to seeing himself in him. Harry would grow a resentment towards Peter, especially when Norman starts grooming him to be his successor. This all culminates in Harry becoming the super-powered equivalent of a school shooter, with Peter trying to stop him.
Personally, I'm partial to Hisako.
Personally my least favorite of logan's sidekicks, but the anime looked great
She could EASILY surpass Jubilee and maybe even Kitty if she was allowed to do fricking anything
Nobody's ever gonna get over the constant Kitty wank boner. Frankly I never got her appeal. I've been rereading a lot of older stuff lately too and she's CONSTANTLY throwing hissy fits and get jealous over EVERYONE. Like seriously that's her entire character.
See i kinda doubt that. She doesnt have the same narrative weight to logan that the other 3 sideckis do
>Kitty was the first and is present in formative wolverine stuff there's the contrasting personality between gruff man and smart happy girl
>Jubilee has the rebel girl being shown the way by a more team player logan with her trying to imitate him more
>X-23 has the shared weapon angle with him needing to try and help her not be in the same situation he is.
I like her thing with wolverine but generally see her less as sidekick and more of a good general young member on an adult team. Not every bit of jail bait needs to get sent to Logan. It's getting kind of weird.
Hellion said the exact same thing to her actually lol.
Young x-man member and logan's sidekick go hand in hand, since there's the most contrast to get by having them be a duo. And of the lot she does the least in that regard.
I heard someone say she was kind of a re-do jubilee, and i can see it. She's the wannabe x-man one that gets to join the main team and such.
She surprisingly didn't get much page time with the rest of the Academy X kids. Which was a bit weird.
Cause she really wasnt one.
When the X-Men finally settle down I want Cyclops and Ms. Marvel as a team. The time travel friendship deserves attention.
>Ms. Marvel
No.
Is this an X-Men thread or a Spider-Man thread?
Depends, would you take Peter's place (all luck included) if it meant that you could go to Marvel?
Yes.
Best answer
A lot of the points overlap.
X-men and spider-man are marvel's two most popular IPS, it makes sense there's overlap
So what Cyclops arc would you like? Put realism away.
What elements of his character and plots would you like to be inexistent for him to be a great character with great treatment?
What kind of story for Cyke would you dream of?
I want a hero who fights for a dream. I want someone who is the living embodiment of a noble cause. I want a super hero to act like a goddamn super hero.
Superheroes are lame. Paramilitaries are much cooler.
harem romcom directed by woody allen
Dump Jean, tell Logan he can do what he wants with her, disregard them both when it doesn't work out. Detach his identity from his lovelive.
Then just have him act like how he acted when the X-men were in San Fransisco, where he was popular with the city and handed the Skrulls their asses in a quarter of the time it took the Avengers. If Cyclops is meant to be high strung and uptight, show the payoff for that by making him essentially unflappable.
Ahem.
Scott with Emma.
Logan with Ororo.
Jean DEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD
>Will they ever be allowed to just be a couple again?
lolno
Cyclops and Storm work when you want to pair the two team responsible adults together.
Underrated pairing.
Bloodstorm should have gotten more time.
Who the frick drew this...
Someone who rightfully believed Emma was a used up prostitute I guess. Even in this page she's her usual "hihi I called him my property and I'm acting like an b***h. Isn't my personnality fun?"
People who draw don't write the comics usually. I am talking about the horrendeous face itself not what she says.
>Flexible
You mean ugly? This cover is okay though other than moronic wolvie the others look ok, but still kinda weird. I wouldn't recognise x2 if not for the claws I thought it was Domino at first lol.
The more I look at it the worse it gets, actually no it is still pretty bad for a professional artist.
I more so meant that he can do diferent styles, latley he's been doing 90s covers for marvel, but he also does realistic paintings, cartoon style and a moodier style. So pretty style flexible able to do different things
This looks really good if it is the same artist. Okay I see I didn't like the previous styles that were posted before.
I think she has really nice design overall even if she looks like a goth chick.
>I wouldn't recognise x23 if not for the claws
Yeah, well you know what, Lara was always a pretty boring looking character frankly. She was a cheap mall goth for lazy girlfriends to cosplay and get nerd cred.
Choi,crain and saneda's laura was always rather distictive and she has some solid looks
Kaare andrews, he was trying for a very weird style, but his art is rather flexible.
*X23
I like wolverine, but this is the worst love triangle in pop culture, Jean has no chemistry with wolvie.
They were each other's first love. They've both moved on. They shouldn't get back together at this point.
Why not? Also Jean's first love is Thunderbird
Anon, Jean and Scott were a thing before Thunderbird was ever created, and he died alone and unloved in his third appearance.
I CAN'T DIE ON MY FIRST MISSION! IT'S BAD FOR BUSINESS!
Cyclops should hook up with younger X-23, she was upset he was injured before, she could be at the side of his hospital bed znd offers comfort to her admired leader
Dna cucking, I like it.
I thought they were really cute together, until she hooked up with Past Angel.
Jean knew that she had been power crept.
Ill always ship laura and julian, but scott was the second best pairing.
But you know bendis and all.
Same anon, I think it was great, hell even the "breakup" they had in that issue with Reed and Sue kids was setup as an opening as it ended on Laura admiting to Gambit she lied to Hellion when she told him she had no feelings for him anymore. It was a pretty good issue too, even if Gambit kinda sound like an ass when he treathen a maimed teenager to blow up his legs next, it felt kinda overeacted for the guy being too clingy.
And just like all Bendis shit, it just go nowhere and is pure form.
I kinda hate there is two Laura now, especially since the older one mostly exist as PDA decoration for one the numerous incarnation of Bendis black fetish.
If the two Laura stuff was played right, it could be really interesting, considering how it could change her relationships with other characters. But, as mentioned, it's never going anywhere
At most its going to be a justification to get classic laura back when this is over.
Bendis has literally never written Synch. Not once. Your brain has rotted due to bald man bad.
Calm down anon, unlike the one answering me, I was just making a joke on Bendis loving bid bald black dude (and being a terrible X-Men writter but that's unrelated)
Bendis never wrote Synch.The real issue isn't Synch X Laura, the issue is that Synch hasn't done much since writers put him in charge of the team.
Synch is what people say cyclops is wrongly.
And i mean making a popular character revolve entirely a smaller one to make the samller one "a bigger deal" is lame as frick
Marvel didn't make Synch into a bigger deal, though. He's just sort of there. Stuff happened/ is happening but its not because he's been a good or bad leader.
I know that people aren't fans of the ship, but I can't bring myself to hate it when nothing good or bad has been done with it.
He absolutely was, he had been dead for 20 years, then he's put in the main team as co-leader, and having a popular character's only narrative thread revolve around him...yeah sorry that's at least trying to make him a bigger deal.
Its a nothing ship, but one that is all laura even does rn, so yeah its bad?
It doesn't feel that way to me. Usually when a character gets promoted to leader or pushed, their choices and actions affect the plot. So far, Synch hasn't done anything for the narrative. The most relevant thing he did was infiltrate the Vault which happened before he became leader and that plotline was resolved by Cable and Bishop.
Id argue that him not actually doing much while being put at the forefront of stuff just makes it worse? Becuase it doesnt really have a prupose but then he's played as if he's one of the most importantest x-men around, y'know?
NTA but X-Desk has constantly wanked him off on how he can copy everybody's powers and be better at them too such as when he used Wolverine's claws and copied Madelyne Pryor's Venom. He's a bigger poochie than Hope Summers too since he can now copy anyone's powers without his range limit at the risk of aging but all he needs to do is just copy a Wolverine like Laura or a time controller like Tempo to de-age himself so it's a non-starter even before Krakoa's fall where he was burning through clone bodies.
>burns trough clone bodies
>laura (the character that has issues with people using clones as if they werent people) is supposed to be in love with him
Huh
Even in Gen X he was using powers better than the original users.
>Hey Chamber, let me use your powers to fly. Oh you can't fly, well I can using your powers.
Hell, I was reading the discussion and getting him mixed with Prodigy.
They are basically the same character, along with hope; Mary Sues that can do almost anything the writer wants and often times are smarter, more insightful and powerful than anyone else.
I liked prodigy in new x-men. Him just getting knowdgle was a solid way of limiting him, and then even more so with him just getting the prior ones but not new ones.
Then they removed his limit and allowed him to retain the borrowed knowledge
Logan was always unrequited and a bit creepy, but he's been portrayed as Jean's true love in secondary media for so long that it has just become the default story.
In what, one movie?
Two of the three cartoons and every movie, responsible for the whole of the public's knowledge of the X-Men. Are you people such homosexual tiktok gen a troons that you're going to pretend that doesn't form the public awareness of X-Men, and that the shit house comics aren't always chasing that? Spare me
what awareness? the last x-men cartoon was wolverien and the x-men. afterwards, the x-men had a media ban. there was no awareness. only now the x-men are getting a revival
He wasn't "painted as Jean's true love" in the 90s cartoon or any movie besides Last Stand, even if there was the moronic love triangle angle. Even in that movie, it was him who had Jeanitis, as far as I recall.
Wolverine was the viewpoint character, so Cyclops came off like the bad guy blocking Wolverine from being happy with his prize redhead.
Name them. A few movies people have already forgotten about?
I've really come to hate these LOOK HOW BADASS I AM moments.
Same honestly. I just want more panels that do a good job explaining and exploring characters at this point. Like, shit like this I've not really seen in earnest since the 2010 X-23 run and it kinda sucks that there's so few stories with at least some kind of heart from the X-Men now. Last series I actually enjoyed was the Remy solo from like 2021 and that's mainly because it had some nice characters moments in between its more bombastic scenes. I'll admit though, maybe Marvel hasn't really changed all that much on its characters and stories and instead maybe I've just changed on what I actually want out of a story. I really don't know, boys. All I know is it sucks, it's like becoming distant with a friend you used to really care for
That would be better if that run wasnt just the writer going "LOOK HOW COOL GAMBIT AND JUBILEE ARE, LAURA NEEDS PEOPLE LIKE THAT IN HER LIFE, IDEAL RELATIONSHIPS WHERE SHE HAS TO PUT NO EFFORT WHATSEOVER"
To be fair, as a Gambit mark, it was pretty great for me. Though I think if the writers were trying to make it a not so subtle nod towards it being an allegory on adoptive children like I believe it was, having those characters like Jubilee and Gambit being supportive, understanding, and serving more as a foundation for Laura to grow in their relationship makes sense, as an adopted kid is more molded by the people around them at first, rather than them developing themselves, so I had no real issue with their parts in the story being carried more by them rather than her
Maybe id be more on board if that writer didnt shit on all of laura's prior dynamics to exalt her new ones with more "established" characters. And i do think its an issue when their dynamics with laura are presented as utterly flawlsss and endelssy supportive to her with zero conflict whatsoever, to "fix" laura by these relationships.
I just blame the writers when it happens, not the characters.
When Peter marries MJ again, yes.
For me it's Scott x Emma.
The real hot take would be saying soctt and betsy were better than both.
Cringe
why
I don't like it.
Why?
Just as soon as the MCU X-Men get going. They'll get some white GigaChad and a redhead Stacy and make them the MCU's main couple. They've lost far too much money, faith and relevance to not do the thing that would catapult them back into relevance. I'm blanking on a good Jean, but I'd bet that Elordi is who they're going to try and get for Scott.
>They've lost far too much money, faith and relevance to not do the thing that would catapult them back into relevance
If they had someone with minimum common sense at the top, things wouldn't be where they are.
>202+
>Having red headed heroines
Don't know. In fact...excluding Sue Storm, can you name any Marvel heroine in a relationship with a man? I don't read much, but I'm pretty sure the Frost/Stark thing is fake.