Who is the BIGGEST LOSER of the Krakoa era? I’m going to go with Xavier.
>compromises his entire moral code and breaks his own will just to stop a future scenario from happening
>he successfully stops it but at the cost of everything he worked for in his entire life being ruined, and all his friends hate him
>our oppressors
Why is Charles talking like a homosexual?
it's true though
Sure whatever but he shouldn't say it like that, Charles is not a non-binary white woman in her 30s
Pretty sure the term existed a long time.
Nobody made him forget the definition of a species, how evolution works, or name his pseudo-scientific "species" "homosexual Superior" and start talking about how they were going to eventually phase out humanity, anon.
Odysseus did that?
Alright sire have a (you) I laughed at this moronic fricking joke.
Cause they keep making robots that blow up his house
The scene is from Immortal X-Men, written by Keiron Gillen, who's entire run on Immortal has been him shitting on the wokeshit that is being spewed by Duggan and the other hack X-Men writers as far as even someone like Gillen, a woke literal homosexual, knows the X-Men lost the plot under the Hickman revamp and is desperately damage controlling shit to try and salvage the franchise by having Xavier admit that Hickman character assassinate him.
To say that Gillen would shit on wokeshit is silly. He's not merely a woke literal homosexual: he pioneered the wokeshit back when he was editor of EDGE magazine. Gamergate and all the resulting cancer traces back to his "New Games Journalism Manifesto".
BUT! He's also one of the few writers interested in exploring the moral failings of Krakoa that Hickman set up. Almost everyone else wanted the happy hippy commune and ignored the central theme of corruption and compromise; Gillen (and Spurrier, and to some degree Ewing and Percy) tried to do something with it.
It's critiquing the left from the left which makes for fun reading. LaValle did it too in Sabretooth.
>New Games Journalism Manifesto
Qrd
Essentially, in 2004 advocated an alternate approach to writing about computer games that emphasised how it made the player-writer feel rather than nuts and bolts of mechanics. It came about at least in part as a way to counter the growing market of internet reviews - if you can see and download actual gameplay, what is the purpose of a review? Could it be used to discuss broader topics?
>“This makes us Travel Journalists to Imaginary places. Our job is to describe what it’s like to visit a place that doesn’t exist outside of the gamer’s head – the gamer, not the game, remember. Go to a place, report on its cultures, foibles, distractions and bring it back to entertain your readers.”
>“New Games Journalism exists to try and explain and transfer the sensations allowed by videogaming to anyone who’s willing to sit and take time to read it. It asks the question ‘Why game anyway?’ and then gives as many answers as there are people, as interesting as people, as precious.”
This isn't that controversial, and its not that different from how the Brit PC Mag review culture of the time was already approaching things, like with the infamous Steve Hoggarty Sims expansion review or Charlie Brooker's various things.
The thing is, Gillen's quite a good writer. He's reasonably bright, well read, and has a range of interests, which is why he was able to move on from video games jernalism. The NGJM was always intended to be just one tool in a toolbox, not completely replacing it - there's always going to be room for useful technical breakdowns, and besides, not everyone enjoys the same styles of writing. The people who FOLLOWED Gillen, however, were nowhere near as good as him but though they could follow his footsteps. From a website financier standpoint, it was also cheaper, faster and less likely to rock the boat with publishers to churn out reams of guff about what the writer had for breakfast than detailed reviews.
TLDR - it was a tool that got misused
Still sounds like a terrible way to review a video game. But realizing that Gillen unintentionally spear-headed all that narcissistic bullcrap really puts all this into perspective.
back in... I think 2004? Gillen was the editor of EDGE magazine, which was obviously a gaming magazine.
One day one black guy got called the n-word during an online game, and wrote an article whinging about it.
This inspired Gillen so deeply that he published the New Games Journalism Manifesto and declared that from this point on, games journalism should focus not on talking about the technical aspects of games and their quality (graphics, gameplay, story, etc) and instead focus on writing about how the games made them feel and their social impact.
Journos loved it, since they could talk about themselves rather than do the work, and so the bullshit began.
The readers.
SPBP
>is a monster for doing exactly what the council gave him orders and tacit permission to do
writer shills suck wiener. news at 11.
"I was only following orders" didn't work for the nazis. The Council let Beast go, X-Force strongly disagreed.
i agree that the council is not being punished by the writers when leadership has greater culpability than lower ranking officers. i accept your concession.
The best part is despite this declaration, the X-books still have mutants referring to themselves as non human. So books refuse to walk it back despite Xavier changing his mind.
The downside of having several titles for a single team is that the one good writer associated with the main book can’t write them all. in the Hickman era it was the same
>in his book, writes the krakoans to be a weird, creepy cult that some members like scott and jean slowly start to wake up from and question
>other x books are just moron writers going MUTANT ISRAEL LE GOOD LOOK HOW FUN THIS IS
Hickman is not a good writer just like bendis he never finishes what he starts, he's mediocre and a hack
Its genius really. Everyone knows how essential a good ending is, so bailing out before you have to write it (and be judged!) means that your fans can pretend that it would have been awesome rather than just a let-down with charts.
>bailing out before you have to write it means that your fans can pretend that it would have been awesome rather than just a let-down with charts.
Very convenient that Hickman does that in every comic that he starts writing.
"Oops I just have to write this other story sorry, here let this moron keep writing for me, I'm sure he'll do a good job!"
I miss him. I miss the dream.
All fake btw, he knew he actually wanted an ethos taste by this point
That's what happened when Marvel continuously undermined Xavier and his dream for sales numbers that in the end only a mutant ethnostate and not the dream of humans/mutants coming together was the solution to the mutant problem.
homie the mutant ethnostate itself was a filthy lie told by a psychopath who wants to turn into a robot and kill everyone on Earth just to finally be on "the winning side"
Seriously this is literally ALL happening because Destiny and Mystique traumatised Moira so badly she decided to be a worse enemy to every living mutant than the fricking Phalanx
You're sort of missing the forest through the trees there, kemosabe. Why do people always try to defend this crap with in universe finger pointing and the blame game when the actual complaint is in regard to the meta narrative and the creation process. It doesn't matter what the reason is the problem is that they shouldn't have made it happen in the first place.
The concept of Krakoa in itself isn’t entirely bad. Just the execution and the insane amount of “just accept it because Hickman wanted it this way” things that involve how the island works.
>The concept of Krakoa in itself isn’t entirely bad.
Yes, It absolutely is.
>But you just want mansion
Shut up. Turning your super heroes who meant to embody the idea of protecting and integrating with a world that fears and hates them into a group of ethnostate gene worshiping psychopaths is a bad idea. This was a godawful plan from the start. There was no redeeming quality even when hickman was on helm.
Krakoa being a new headquarters and seeing X-men trying to build a functioning their own society is a good idea to explore, especially if it worked like Cable’s Providence where everyone wasn’t just mutants. Had plenty of potential. Making it a creepy ethnostate cult wasn’t but that’s what Hickman wanted to do and I was never fan of the direction Krakoa took from the start because it was clear the aspects I was interested in the concept were never going to get any real focus.
And I said nothing about the mansion.
Thing is, most people don't think the idea of a mutant separatist nation is a good idea because Marvel's already done the idea several times before, and none of them worked out in the end. Remember Utopia back when it was Asteroid M or Nation X? How about Tian or New Tian? Or how about Genosha, after Magneto was done finishing his own ethnic cleansing of the human overlords to install himself as the mutant overlord? Heck, how about the alternate realities where mutants achieved Magneto's dream of being the dominant fricking species like House of M and Age of X-man? They've already explored the concept of "Mutants with their own place to live" to death, and not just with the mainline X-men. They've done that shit with Cable's Providence and Thor's New Asgard and the Inhumans themselves squatting over New York, and the Ultimates had them doing their own goddamn iteration of Krakoa years before in the middle of goddamn Ohio.
Bottom line is, no more fricking mutant ethnostates. Not for a long while. None of Marvel's talent has capable of fleshing that shit out, and this fixation on a perfect mutant safe haven is stagnating the frick out of the writing. If someone actually does come around with their own interesting take on the concept, I'll live with it, but right now they need to stop with the mutant ethnostates.
>But muh allegor-
Frick the allegory, the X-men should be goddamn superheroes, not the kingmakers of mutantkind. The writers spent four years of the X-men crawling up its own narrative hole, studying the crevasses and hemorrhoids, and this is all they have to show for it. Marvel's proven that they shouldn't be trusted with writing about this mutant ethnostate bullshit for at minimum a decade before even thinking about touching that shit again.
All those examples are bad because they were always superfluous backdrops, sometimes super brief, and didn’t show any actual nation building.
Same thing happened with Krakoa, really. The only books that actually gave a damn about trying to nation build were X-Men Red and Immortal X-men, and one could argue that at the end of the day they were more interested in building up Arakko and in setting up the rivalry between Essex and Irene/Raven that basically came to take center stage over even Moira in the narrative. All the other books were either doing their own plots or just jerking the mutants' superiority off without actually bothering to lay the rest of the foundation down.
Name one. That's kind of the thing about all these X-men genocide stories, they don't actually involve the mutants people give two shits about.
But you did actually get some of that nation building shown and depicted. As well as getting to see how the ruling council is involved in internal politics, etc. while trying to administer the nation. It wasn’t done enough but at least you got some of it
Not really. You got the same amount that they put into Cable's Providence, which was just enough to get by to tell the story they wanted of Cable's attempts to save the world going sour due to personal issues and the obstacles of a world not ready for his kind of benevolent rule. Krakoa was always going to be half-baked from the fact it was written by Hickman, who loves his grandiose ideas but never sticks the landing, and the fact of the matter was it was clear nobody else gave even half a shit about the boring parts of world-building like the logistics or the administration. They only wanted the "fun" parts like the covert ops and the ruling council backstabbing and plotting, which are perfect material for a superhero comic but aren't enough to properly establish a world.
Frankly, Utopia was a far more put together attempt to build a nation, considering we actually saw Cyclops having to deal with both the issues of guiding a very skeptical mutant refugee populace AND dealing with the concerns raised by a neighboring state in the form of Mayor Sinclair of San Francisco. Krakoa didn't even get up to that level in the end.
>You got the same amount that they put into Cable's Providence
You absolutely did not. Krakoa actually established and focused on the drug manufacturing, the leverage of that, how it was distributing those, how some nations refused to allow them, the smuggling of them, the diplomatic relations between different nations, X-corp was terrible but showcasing other aspects of the economy and trade was at least attempted, everything related to mysterium, X-Factor’s CIA shit, those hellfire galas, nightcrawler’s mutant religion… they did a lot to actually albeit superficially show how things worked. It was usually done too little and badly but it was done
>It was usually done too little and badly but it was done
To which I'm saying that's maybe fine for you, but for the majority of readers that's not nearly good enough or even remotely interesting enough. Especially cause at the end of the day, shit wasn't meant to last longer than two years but people demanded it stay and they did fricking nothing of note with that extra time. The X-office doesn't deserve a pat on the head for half-assing this shit, they deserve a slap upside the head for being given the keys to the kingdom and fricking it up.
>Why do people always try to defend this crap with in universe finger pointing and the blame game when the actual complaint is in regard to the meta narrative and the creation process. It doesn't matter what the reason is the problem is that they shouldn't have made it happen in the first place
Because we're on a board full of autists but this is a wider issue where the average person really can't separate reality from fiction. I wonder how many seemingly normal people have this issue
>All religions are horrified by the crimes of the holocaust
Charles-sama I...
chuck isn't aware of the religion of peace
He just doesn't consider it a religion.
He was meant to create one though. That’s why it’s so stupid. He even got that giant tower that was obviously meant to be a church or a place of worship of some kind
>Remember when he lusted after jailbait Jean?
That's just being a man.
"There's a deeply Semitic influence in the press. It is Semitic and I am sure of it." -Patton, Post- WWII
Why are we acting like this is something new?
Remember when it's revealed he enslaved a sentient alien AI to run the danger room?
Remember when it's revealed he got Gabe and the others killed on Krakoa then wiped Scott's memory of his brother even existing?
Remember when he lusted after jailbait Jean?
Is there a psychic that is not an absolute butthole? It seems like it comes with the territory.
Martian Manhunter's pretty alright. Psi Judge Anderson's from Judge Dredd a good person too, for all that shit that comes with being The Law in Mega City One.
where should I start reading Judge Dredd?
Honestly, wherever you like. Dredd's episodic format means that there's hundreds of six page short stories from a huge variety of excellent writers and artists, as well as some fantastic longer ones that stand up with any of the classics of the genre. Its remarkably consistent almost fifty years of a weekly comic plus all the other Dredd material like the Megazine, spin offs etc. If you want a big, big chunk o' Dredd to start with, Case Files 5 is a phonebook sized collection that's a good way into the series and has the classic Judge Death (which Anderson first appeared in, alongside longterm nemesis Judge Death) and the seminal epic "The Apocalypse War". For somke other recs, try looking for "Judge Death Lives", "The Judge Child Quest", "The Pitt", "Mandroid", "Origins", "America", "Judgement on Gotham" (aka the first one with Batman), "Incubus" (aka the one with the Xenomorphs), "Mechanismo" and the much more recent "Harvey". There's a range of themes, styles and lengths there so you should find one that you like! Don't forget that there's a whole lot of other excellent stories in 2000AD, some based in Dredd's Universe (Psi Judge Anderson, The Low Life, The Simping Detective, Shimura / Hondo City Law, Devlin Waugh, Insurrection, Lawless...) and many not (like Shakara, storytimed just this week!
).
well you sold me, thanks anon
No worries anon, have a great day!
Some other 2000AD serials you may want to look out for, depending on your tastes, could be Nikolai Dante (sci-fi swashbuckler set in a neo-Tsarist Russian empire with a charming rogue as protagonist), Leviathan (Titanic meets Event Horizon), Brink (fairly serious and mature investigations into cults on orbital platforms), Slaine (The Horned God with Simon Bisley on art duties is a good entry point, but the classic 80s stories are all fun), Mazeworld and Button Man (both with photorealistic art by Arthur Ranson, one a magical fantasy akin to Labyrinth and the other a gritty action movie about modern day gladiators). Plus more! We could be here all day!
2000AD is oddly under the radar most of time and ill never understand why
Not Big Two, not American, and very few adaptations, sadly. On the one hand, it's allowed the original creators to remain mostly on board as touchstones and maintain a pretty reasonable editorial standard, but in the other it remains very niche. No cartoons, but also no [latest horrible comics thing]
I still don't get why Marvel gave Howard the Captain Britain adjacent books when they had at least two actual Brits on staff.
Ewing seems to care more about space stuff and cosmic abstract/archetypal metafiction stuff than multiversal stuff
>when they had at least two actual Brits on staff.
they really only had Ewing when Krakoa started and he was busy with Hulk and starting up GOTG only coming on later to write a book that never got published, Gillian has stated several times he only came back to Marvel due to Hickamns Krakoa and being allowed to do similar stuff for Eternals, and Spurrier was busy with Hellblazer at DC.
Marvel should have at least tried to get a UK writer for those books, the same way DC should always try to get Brits to write Hellblazer, just feels wrong otherwise.
>Gillian has stated several times he only came back to Marvel due to Hickamns Krakoa and being allowed to do similar stuff for Eternals
Gillian needs to get over his Game of Thrones obsession.
tbf to him he at least wrote a better Arthurian fantasy book in Once and Future(which is very flawed no doubt) than what Tini Howard was doing at the same time, so much so that Tini just started copying his homework later on which made her run even more of a pointless slog.
Is Once and Future worth a read?
yes, teh story goes at a decent clip and has some nice Mora artwork before he got overworked at DC and makes use of Arthurian lore in a way that is compelling and much better than Excalibur did it's attempt at the same story beats,
it is flawed though but not as much as Gillian's other Indie work at the time like DIE is.
>but also no [latest horrible comics thing]
I don't know I read classic Devlin Waugh into the more modern stuff and the modern stuff sucked all the soul out of the character
Devlin's a study in wasted potential. He was second most popular character after Dredd back in the day, but then constant delays and creative issues brought it down. Perils of 90s toothy, I guess. At least they're doing something with him, the core idea is pretty sound even if the strip's a bit gouache these days.
Frick! Nikolai Dante brings back memories. I haven't thought of that series in years. Fricking hell I'm getting old.
Not him but I legit did not know the world was that big in the Dredd setting. Neat
I don't remember Psylocke ever actually abusing her telepathy. Though I checked out of the modern stuff a while ago. And also she's part of a murder team but I don't think that's really the same thing when her choice of murder is more stabby stabby
Betsy was a spy and part of a group of telepathic spies that did a lot of bad shit for the British government. She also mindraped Havok when he tried to warn them that the Brood was back because she didn't know who he was (and then suggested that the team MURDER him because he later came back to the mansion and caught them talking about faking their deaths) and because of this, the Brood manage to get a foothold set up and several hives, wiping out the Guild of Assassins plus killing countless people in Colorado and the midwest/southwest, along with mindcontrolling Havok as her mouthpeace to manipulate Dazzler and Colossus and ultimately Alex and herself into going into the Siege Perilous.
Because writers have been shitting on Charles for DECADES at this point.
>Remember when he lusted after jailbait Jean?
Imagine equating this to the other stuff. He's only human and he never acted on those urges.
Joss Whedon's X-Men was exceptionally stupid.
Deadly Genesis was post-Decimation garbage.
And can you blame him for getting the horn for a sexy teen redhead who ran around in a miniskirt? The important thing is he never acted on it.
Xavier is a fricking tool and they should kill him off permanently
The fact that the X-Men are still caring about his "muh dream" shit after so many lies that he has pulled is fricking insane
dreams don't die
the word "noble" should not be used to describe Xavier's fantasy
Cyclops got character assassinated
Not really, credit where it's due, looking back Cyclops always was kind of prone to maybe caring more about how shit made him feel or how he thought it looked on him than actually having strong convictions. It unironically does resemble Magneto in that regard a lot and it was a thing for a long time even as far back as Claremont.
is it crazy to anyone else that mutants are known to discard mutants who no longer have access to their powers? those dumbasses had a whole bus full of non powered kids killed because they didnt have the foresight to think that they would still have massive bullseyes on their backs, but no powers to defend themselves. its like how thet dickrode the SHIT out of franklin richards when they thought they could recruit him to come to krakoa against his parents wishes, even honeypotted him with kitty,(double entrendre) and reed not liking their agressiveness and the fact that val wasnt invited tried to put astop to it until franklin was of age to make the choice himself got mindhacked and robbed by a pair of buttholes, then they came to the conclusion that franklin wasnt a mutant anyway and wasnt allowed on krakoa. the fact that this shit was swept under the fricking rug, when it should have been a major issue for the final arc( yknow, making inhibitors mutants could wear so they could walk around without being murdered) is just lazy writing
the origin of Franklin's powers is now such a horrific mess because of Slott and the X-writers conflicting, it's insane
especially considering the only reason for this debacle is drama. franklins been a mutant forever
honestly, living in a world where psychic buttholes exist, im suprised every genius level character doesnt have inhibitors and blockers on them,
its gonna be real funny to see them try to walk back all the bullshit they did on krakoa to still seem like a opressed minority. frickers were actually going around calling themselves gods and doing whatever the hell they wanted. im kinda suprised that emma facent faced retriblution when she was mind altering people and charles warned her about that shit
>franklins been a mutant forever
I don't see what the big deal is. This isn't the same as Wanda and Pietro, being a mutant was a trivia fact about Franklin at best. Making it so he isn't affects nothing from the Fantastic Four side of things, which is what actually matters
It's a big deal because it's a massive double standard in-universe.
In what sense? Franklin doesn't advertise that he's a mutant, and doesn't typically get involved with mutie shit
It's because for whatever reason the X-Office has this weird possessive streak when it comes to all mutant characters, even when they traditionally have nothing to do with the X-Men. Say what you want about the execution but Franklin being removed from that bullshit is an improvement for him and the Fantastic Four
There were quite a few mutants who were all perfectly content to not associate with the x-men but once the x-office got their fangs in anyone with even an ounce of popularity it became a shit show.
it's better in a meta sense but it's very disappointing in terms of the narrative and general marvel universe. It sections off the world more and sort of spits in the face of the whole coexistence thing. It's especially bad since the fantastic 4 in general usually end up right next to the x-men in the fight for justice and acceptance even if that's not their main thing
It only had to happen because of meta bullshit though. Despite having a huge cast of characters, X-Men writers literally can't help but try and take other people's toys
It's like they've pushed the concept of the shared universe to breaking point by trying to grab mutant characters from other books, constantly writing a world that looks completely unrecognizable to the other Marvel books, and abusive treatment of other Marvel heroes by making them look bad for not solving all the X-Men's problems for them. It's enough to make you want the X-Men permanently separated from the rest of Marvel into their own universe so all of this stops happening.
>That's why they wanted Franklin to begin with, he's one of the most powerful people on Earth and they want him to drink the kool aid
A lot of the readers who are so salty about this are exactly the same. They don't care about Franklin as a character at all, they just saw all mutant characters as property of the X-books, and that Franklin's rightful place was as the biggest gun in Krakoa's arsenal, they're reacting like something that was never truly theirs in the first place has been stolen from them. It's a very similar situation with Wanda, only with the addition of people whose only interest in her was dependent on who her father was.
>they're reacting like something that was never truly theirs in the first place has been stolen from them
That's always been the thing I hate about the people b***hing about it. Like I can think of maybe two instances where Franklin being a mutant was relevant, and neither of them have him in a very big role (Days of Future Past and Onslaught), the rest of the time he's a non-factor to X-Men stuff but they act like he's some key figure to the X-Men books.
As shitty as the stuff they have done and continue to do with Wanda at least she and Pietro actually did have strong ties to the X-Men from their inception. That being said they still were at their best during Avengers books (well besides Pietro's stint in X-Factor which was also great)
Mutiegays are greedy af. They dumped on Wanda for years but sperg out at her not being a mutant.
That's true for Pietro, who was a presence in the X-books periodically when the Avengers weren't using him, but Wanda doesn't really have anything to do with the X-books after the original Brotherhood imploded in 1965 until House of M, an event she barely even appears in. For her absolutely nothing of value is lost by her not being a mutant and not being related to Magneto.
Even in AU settings where the X-Men office could do anything they wanted with Wanda, all they've ever done is kill her to make Magneto feel sad.
It made no sense at all, they spent years hating her and wanting her dead, then chimped out about her ties to the X-books being retconned away like she was their property being stolen from them. Neither those X-gays nor Marvel seem to understand how those years resulted in people who like Wanda largely being fine with the retcons, and not wanting her to have anything to do with mutants ever again. If only the people working on her book understood this.
because x-men and the narrative around them has completely jumped the shark so even trivia shit like Franklin becomes a major sticking point in these stories despite decades of him already being assimilated into the greater marvel world
>I don't see what the big deal is. This isn't the same as Wanda and Pietro, being a mutant was a trivia fact about Franklin at best.
Let's be honest, 99% of the time it was just a trivia fact for Wanda too. And with the absolute state of what the X-books have become, they're both far better off being in a position where they have nothing to do with mutants anymore. Unfortunately even when she's not a mutant and not Magneto's daughter, Marvel's writers still can't see past those things for her. At least Franklin's fully free from it.
Every time I see anything with Magneto trying to cope and seeth about how ACKSHYUALLY, The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants is supposed to be an ironic take at the establishment, I am reminded there are two types of Marvel writer. The ones who think Magneto unironically did nothing wrong, and the ones who think it's totally cool to have Carol b***h at him for talking about the holocaust all the time.
>franklins been a mutant forever
Also their objection to him "faking" mutant powers with cosmic reality warping ones is such bullshit when they're fine with ARTIFICIAL mutants.
>every genius level character
To be fair, Reed is legitimately one of the most stupid smart people I've seen in fiction.
>Reed is legitimately one of the most stupid smart people I've seen in fiction.
cant argue against that. he clearly has a common sense activator that bugs out too often
There's so much shit in his past, but I still can't get over the fact that the Sentry came to him for help and he thought yeeting him into the Negative Dimension was a fantastic idea despite admitting he had no idea what would happen.
And don't even get me started on him being paid off by big corpos to censor advanced technology so they can meet their profit margins
Nate having mommy issues doesn't mean he was wrong about the dangers of mutant sex, given what has become of Krakoa.
>Franklin doesn't advertise that he's a mutant, and doesn't typically get involved with mutie shit
They were perfectly happy to have him back when he did, then chucked him out on a technicality the moment he was depowered.
Do you think they would kick out, say, Cyclops if HIS mutant gene was successfully cured by Moira?
>The X-Office
I'm not talking about the shitshow that is the writing room, I'm talking about how this comes across for the characters' motivations in-universe
>Do you think they would kick out, say, Cyclops if HIS mutant gene was successfully cured by Moira?
I mean there's the page in this very thread where Cyclops kicks Chuck out, but during the Krakoa era yes I absolutely believe that. Krakoa is the mutants at their most corrupt and ethnostate-y. Of course they're gonna kick out someone "pretending to be a mutant" who also has no powers and is therefore of no use to them. That's why they wanted Franklin to begin with, he's one of the most powerful people on Earth and they want him to drink the kool aid
>Krakoa is the mutants at their most corrupt and ethnostate-y.
Good, we're in agreement on that. That's all I'm saying, that Krakoa was a profound mistake on par with the Original Sin itself in terms of what it says about the X-Men's current level of morality.
As someone who actually saw that shit plastered, the irony is she was easily the best thing in it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Kamala fan. But the actress might've been able to salvage her career in a better movie.
Also lmao at assuming current Disney management won't double-triple-quadruple down on whatever DEI kickbacks demand it to.
I'm still waiting for one to capitalise on Aaron's bullshit by claiming Thor is a mutant, despite Cates trying to unfrick that shit.
There was that time in Astonishing where he willingly took the mutant cure to escape Casandra Nova frickery, he proceeded to be utterly based without powers
Seeing Scott without glasses is wrong. It's like seeing Matt without them
The problem is, without the glasses Scott is THE generic white guy literally NOTHING noticeable or unique about him. Peter Parker is probably the only dude more non-descript
God, I'm hearing Norm Spencer's Cyclops and that makes this page fricking hilarious.
>Mutants in every timeline get purged.
Magneto lmao. No seriously, the endgame of X-Men is an integrated society like the goal of the original comics and Xavier's dream. Mutants are somewhat accepted in public, you still have Mutant Supremacists and some public fears but they exist as equal people. Mutants are not a consistent or separate species, they are homosapiens who developed a genetic mutation that does not persist evolution wise.
They didn't even develop their own mutation, it was literally bestowed by the Celestials as an experiment they still haven't explained the purpose of lmao
And whatever that purpose is, the existence of humanity is way more important because the Celestials engineered REGULARASS humans as antibodies to the space bugs that can kill all of them in existence. So on the one hand you have canon establishing humans were created as the celestial defence force, and on the other hand you have Celestials not giving a shit about Nate Grey, not giving a shit about Krakoa as a whole and not even giving a shit about Enigma.
So based on circumstantial evidence mutants are literally just a hobby for Celestials lmao
>they still haven't explained the purpose of lmao
iirc its to make Franklin Richards, a life form on par with a Celestial.
We have some data on that. Originally they were Neanderthals and were supposed to fight it out with the Deviants and Eternals to see who'd be the dominant species because this is an experiment the Celestials have run multiple times [Deviant Skrulls won on the Skrull homeworld, for example], the Eternals seemingly tapped out/misinterpreted things, the X-Gene Neanderthals got fricked out of existence by homosexual Sapiens' immediate ancestor who wasn't even supposed to exist, and the Deviants fought it out with them and the surviving elderspawn races until they managed to dominate almost all of the planet only for the Celestials to randomly come back and decide to overturn the results of their own experiment as a key part of the chain of gigaclusterfricks that were the Great Cataclysm, allowing homosexual Sapiens to rise to dominance in the Hyborian Age even as the various Elderspawn tried to finally bounce back.
Mutants are literally a genetic dead end that lost the evolutionary arms race to literally some random fricking guys who weren't even supposed to be there.
>I'd better prioritize inhibitors
Living in a world where you know full fricking well that psychics are a thing, you'd think that it would basically be something you'd carry around with you like a wallet, which is to say, nearly all the fricking time.
To br fair, Tony never thought of it because he wanted Moondragon to read his sexy thoughts
Nothing after the X-Men welcoming Selene Gallio, Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister WHO ISN'T EVEN A NATURAL MUTANT with open arms phases me anymore. The sheer moronation of the concept that faced with some kind of ontological threat you should go cap in hand to your former supervillains BEFORE asking for help from the Avengers who knock out a cosmic being every other Tuesday is just incomprehensible until you accept the X-office is just that determined to keep the oppressed minority metaphor going long after it's lost all meaning.
Other way around. Kamala is set for life until the MCU well and truly collapses, she's like a lich with synergy as her phylactery. Gwenpool is relatively unpopular enough I question if her powers can recover from this.
I still can't believe that when Logan brought up that could backfire horrifically they pushed ahead.
Kamala just starred in the biggest bomb in MCU history, she will never be seen again.
For mutants powers are everything and the only thing
what the frick is this? and what the hell happened to betsy?
i know most characters in krakoa took a turn to jackassery, but for her it was particularly dissapointing
also, im gonna be mad if after all this, the next time we see black tom and big fred that theyll be villains again
>what the hell happened to betsy?
Tini Howard happened. Completely fricking destroyed Betsy, Brian, and the entire Captain Britain corps in her dogshit books
hopefully, Brevort blows that all up so it can be forgotten again, but I doubt it. I never took him for someone who cared about Marvel UK books.
Yeah that's the real issue. Unless Claremont is allowed to write modern continuity I doubt anyone will ever care enough to fix it, and making Betsy gay has essentially preserved her being Captain Britain for all time
>Cullen
Was that the gay kid in that terrible Arena story?
yes
Which is fricking moronic and one of the main reasons why krakoa kept getting criticized. It would have been fine if it was to show their hypocrisy that would then lead to a revelation for most of the characters, but the writers are too shitty at their jobs and you just see the constant pity party all of these mutants wind up throwing at each other. I forget which issue it was, but the X-Men saved a bunch of mutants from a big disaster and instead of thanking them those same mutants threw a massive fricking fit because "you X-Men are a slightly different kind of mutant from us real actual mutants and therefore that makes you and everything you do bad", but we're supposed to feel bad for those innocent victims still.
Meanwhile Spider-Man. That's it, don't need to say no more because it's fricking Spider-Man.
Hickman just went the easy route of the planet of hats trope and plot>characterization. It's a lot easier than letting different mutants have different thoughts on Krakoa. Like, how did none of the classical heroic X-Men characters have any issues with Apocalypse and Sinister being allowed to live on Krakoa let alone be a part of the Quiet Council?!
>B-But Wolverine didn't like the Crucible and Scott and Jean resigned from the Council
Logan made no effort in trying to stop the Crucible or be vocal on how fricked up it was and Scott and Jean basically resigned to have plausible deniability and did nothing to try and abolish the Council.
If Nightcrawler was still even vaguely Catholic he should have been having constant breakdowns too, instead of all-in on the sex cult aspects in the Hickman books and wet blanket CofE vicar in his own.
Holy frick did Spurrier drop the ball with "The Spark", congrats Kurt, you created the equivalent of a religion for a hippie commune. Further proof that only Ostrander should talk about religion in comics.
They could have quite easily fixed/undone this by saying that Xavier brainwashed everyone but a few key people to make them all easier to get along together. Make it part of that phony Krakoa language dump. Then when it all hits the fan you can have Xavier going "it was for the greater good, you have to believe me!" while the others have various kinds of breakdown. Hell, you could do that just with Beast - Xavier needed a CIA type guy he completely trusted to do all the bad things without needing to know the details and getting his hands dirty, why not just give Hank the little push over the edge he needed to be a useful tool.
Especially when you compare his efforts to those of true believers like Exodus and Apocalypse, who managed to put together more coherent (if completely psychotic) cults and had meaningful impact on mutant society, and the amused/benign contempt his peers in the elite mutant caste held him. Combining your hippy cult with a police force made it obvious it was a tool of societal control rather than a genuine good faith... uh... faith, and the fact that the vague lib "In this House we believe" style rules got co-opted to mean whatever the elites on the council wanted should have (a) destroyed his faith and (b) been completly obvious from the start.
Here's the thing about American comics. Everyone has their own ideas about how a book should be run. The current writer may feel strongly that the previous writer was wrong and work to "correct" their mistakes, and the following writer may do the same. Multiple writers working on multiple concurrent stories in the same universe may vehemently disagree with each other. This is part of why American comics are such a clusterfrick at times.
And the X-Men are the worst off. Because X-Men is in many ways concerned with real-world ideologies regarding races, nations and equality, different writers and editors will inevitably have INCREDIBLY strong feelings about it, and many will inevitably strive for different messages. Some of those messages may conflict. Worse still, several writers don't even necessarily care about those conflicts and so they may establish something that inadvertently contradicts what other writers have done. And this is why X-Men in particular is in a perpetual state of frickery. No one's really on the same page. Not really.
Probably why manga does better. One writer creates a definitive beginning, middle, and end of the story so it's all one complete vision.
>Muh manga
Oh shut the frick up. Western comics have done just fine for longer than most manga were ever in print.
Are they doing fine now?
Certainly not, but It's not because of manga. And I'm sick of you morons acting like manga is somehow infallible.
There is a reason why one manga outsold all American comics.
Part of me what's to refute that by citing AoT, Boruto and JJK as examples of what happens when said writer fricks up. Another accepts that when the competition is fricking capeshit, you've set the bar so low it's basically impossible to lose when most of Cinemaphile refuses to acknowledge the last 20 years of comics has actually happened
all of those are better than your comics
Except the mangaka is oftentimes subject to his editor who wants things to drag themselves out as long as they can go and then when the popularity wanes, ends more abruptly than it should.
That's a shueisha issue. With some of the other publishers you have the exact opposite problem, nepotism hires who reject any editorial input, which is how absolute frickery like you can occasionally see in Shonen Champion happens.
Two people coming to an agreement isn't exactly the same as a konga line of writers deliberately shitting on each other's ideas out of spite.
>One writer creates a definitive beginning, middle, and end of the story so it's all one complete vision.
And that’s why there’s plenty of manga that have shitty endings, meanderings middle parts because they can’t think what to do next, lots of fluff where the story doesn’t progress, etc. etc. etc. that makes most people drop the manga and not complete it.
And that's not counting all the manga that just gets axed unceremoniously. People always point towards a handful of popular shonen shit but there are lots of series that just get dropped with no warning.
You gotta remember most manga evangilists on Cinemaphile are the worst kinds of mangagays they're usually newbies and shonnengays who just discovered the joys of Japanese comics but have only read the most surface level shit. It's why everything with them is in the most binary glowing terms
>Manga good, comics bad
Because they only know Jump
Apocalypse
Went from a cool badges to uwu softball who was only ever evil because of his wife
Apocalypse was ALWAYS a jobber
Comic Apocalypse is such a joke that TAS Apoc is considered a superior version
As much as I hate Thanos I really want to see him kick Pocky's ass. Like all X-men villains he's a big fish in a small pond and I want to see him knocked down the last few pegs he has left
...can it be literally anyone else than Thanos? Like say, Ultron. I'm so sick of Thanos wank it somehow outweighs my disgust at mutie ethnostate pity parties, and like Ultron is right there if they're so scared of robots.
Seriously what is Ultron's opinion on the Dominions.
We need Ultron's input on posthumanity as a concept
I want Ultron to beat up Nimrod for being an inferior knock off
I chose Thanos because the fill a similar niche as their properties "dogshit Darkside"
I want Ultron to absorb Nimrod and become the final villain of the Marvel universe the fact that this has never happened even in an alt universe is a travesty
there will never be a "final villain" of Marvel outside of alternate universes.
Ultron has assimilated the Phalanx in the past. I think he would make any Dominion his b***h and ascend to a level that makes Enigma shit itself.
>jobber
This isn't about wins and losses, this is about Hickman rewriting his entire history and personality so he's not the same character anymore.
Yeah Hickman just cut out all the Celestial stuff from his backstory, his entire purpose for what he does, called it window dressing, and replaced it with a wife and another mutant island.
>Xavier
What da....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!111!1
classic
The biggest problem with Krakoa was most of the writers were larping as supremacists that the storyline was supposed to be a warning against in the first place.
Gwenpoole for investing in mutantcoin at a time when mutantcoin is continuously in the process of imploding.
Nah Gwenpool can just sell it all off and invest it all back in Spider-Versecoin. Kamala is the one that is fricked, she had no fans before she leeched onto the x men and now it’s imploding she is worse off than before she died.
It was the Blue b***h
Now everyone knows what kind of a monster he really is
Ever noticed how adaptations try to make sure Beast is well-liked, where the X-Office tries to make him suffer to a point his clone could relapse from being gaslit that the clone is evil?
>his clone could relapse from being gaslit that the clone is evil?
That interlude's really frigging weird in itself. We don't like you, so we've cloned a new version of you we like better that we intend to replace you with. Its a different guy! At best its a twin who you've brainwashed!
Reminder that this is literally all Destiny and Mystique's fault because if they didn't burn Moira alive she wouldn't have gone full Terminator on everyone out of spite.
Reminder that Dominions are actually frauds at the cosmic level that can be soloed with ye olde Phoenix Force asspull powerup or oneshot with merely the force of a supernova. A regularass supernova.
Reminder that there was nothing everyone present at the gala could do to save their dumb asses from Nimrod just bodyslamming it. That's it. That's how robots frick over mutants, with big WWE-style dynamic entries. It's that fricking easy. They're so lucky Ultron hasn't deigned to give the muties any attention.
Reminder that while all this is happening, Nate Grey is off creating a better world in an alternate plane of existence and shaking his head in disappointment at what all those smug gits who tried to tell him he was wrong to prevent mutant sex have accomplished. I mean look where excessive mutant fricking got Krakoa: Somehow allowing a man literally calling himself Mr. Sinister to upgrade himself into a threat even The One Above All can't fully comprehend
>Reminder that while all this is happening, Nate Grey is off creating a better world in an alternate plane of existence
Don't care, nasty b***h has severe mommy issues and will never succeed in making his schizo playground perfect lmao
Nate needs to frick Maddie asap god damn it. Ultimate X-Men had one job and instead we get e-girls who will btfo my waifu Magik. Fricking hell.
>Nate hates sex now
>Maddie has apparently gone off the deep end with no Nate dick
It's less likely to happen than Umar fricking the Hulk again anytime soon
I'm pretty sure Ultimate x-men won't last long enough to even get to Magik and the whole Russian state that doesn't control any of the important parts of Russia but Iis still a world power somehow
That is depressing. Magik and Hulk are the illuminati members I'm most looking forward to seeing go down. Idc about french Captain Britain, Sunfire or Moon Knight.
that going to be covered in the Ultimates probably Ultimate X-men will probably just go in a diffrent direction than everything else in the new ultimate line
That's a lot to dump on Camp who is a noob to big 2 writing. I feel Hulk goes down in Spider-Man as he was the one who came up with the idea to use the satellite weapon on new york. Magik will be either Ultimates or Ultimate X-Men, frenchie Capt Britain is def Ultimates, Moon Knight falls in Black Panther and. Sunfire in UXM
You just reminded me how many people were unironically calling the Age of X-Man reality "a utopia" because there were no humans there, only mutants. Love, sex and family being illegal, or the literal Thought Police and criminals having all memory of their existence erased from everyone else's minds didn't seem to bother these people at all.
With all the time travel/alternative timeliness shit, I'm surprised Kang, Immortus, the Time Variance Authority or the Captain Britian Corps haven't come in, beat the piss out of Sinister, Moria and anyone else mucking about.
>Captain Britain Corps
Well...they were strongarmed into some bullshit interdimensional invasion that the white woman Psylocke thwarted in that Captain Britain comic apparently nobody read. And nobody except MCU viewers remembers or cares the TVA exists, and the TVA they're thinking of is a totally different thing.
Bet Kang and Immortus are having a good laugh at muties being moronic tho. I mean, Doom definitely is.
Kang is currently helping Eddie Brock and a bunch of out of time variants of him become Dominions in all but name
Part of me wants to ask why, another part of me wants to ignore the Venomverse now it's spiralling into absolutely absurd and unwarranted levels of cosmic escalation
he's doing it for the challenge, Kang is basically a thrill seeker that only does something because it proves he can do it
Venom is the most sauceless shit at Marvel right now and not what I expectef when Ewing took up the King in Black plot. Then Gronbekk is doing next level moronic shit with Carnage.
it will be over by October since we know Venom War starts in July
>Doom definitely is.
I would love if Doom stepped in and just make Sinister and ORCHIS his b***h. Remind them who's the Master of Menace.
>Reminder that there was nothing everyone present at the gala could do to save their dumb asses from Nimrod just bodyslamming it. That's it. That's how robots frick over mutants, with big WWE-style dynamic entries. It's that fricking easy. They're so lucky Ultron hasn't deigned to give the muties any attention.
This is the worst of all, in the end they lost against an enemy they always win.
And shit if Nimrod alone could do that much damage, imagine how much Omega Sentinel could do if she actually got off her ass for more than 5 minutes
And like a few months later Synch just solos Nimrod using Storm's powers, but doesn't just destroy him for REASONS.
the reason being Duggan is a hack who can't write a team book to save his life
>Duggan is a hack who can't write
could've stopped there tbh
That's the thing he HAS, Savage Avengers and Punisher Kill Krew was great but X-men just made him go full moron
Savage Avengers was just a Marvel Team up featuring Conan and an ongoing plot and the fact the character doesn't mind killing probably didn't let Duggan express some of his bad tendencies in a logical way same with punisher Kill Krew.
that there was nothing everyone present at the gala could do to save their dumb asses from Nimrod just bodyslamming it. That's it. That's how robots frick over mutants, with big WWE-style dynamic entries.
I've got to finish the rest of this comic edit, it was the first thing I thought of when I saw it.
Who are the tree men?
Its an attempt at the Krakoa tree technology, which is mostly wood with red globs growing on it. I hadn't realised how old the original was until I looked it up, that was a nasty surprise. This whole linear progression of time thing may have been a mistake.
>Somehow allowing a man literally calling himself Mr. Sinister to upgrade himself into a threat even The One Above All can't fully comprehend
Brian Griffin vomiting profusely gif.
Shouldn't the rest of the world be affected by Krakoa no longer being a thing? All those miracle drugs it was providing?
The irrational hatred for mutantkind even after that one living virus guy was destroyed is so profound and omnipresent, that I fully believe the average Marvel civlian's hatred of mutants far outweighs any regrets about the miracle drugs running out.
They're probably secretly cheering on their new robot overlords.
I just want a fun X-Men adjacent book that isn't submerged in mutie bullshit like the original Excalibur run, is that too much to ask?
The die was cast when someone decided that an organisation named "The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants" needed to be justified because then people might think Magneto is a BAD MAN instead of a misunderstood visionary.
Even if he was being ironic the fact that Mastermind, Sabertooth and Mystique were not only members, not only founding members but recurring members proves Magneto was either full of shit or a fricking idiot
It's so funny how they talk about Sabretooth like he's an unhinged monster these days, when the truth is he's just not fashionable enough to hang out with the real monsters on Krakoa.
To be fair Darkseid himself is pretty dogshit these days
Keyword being "these days"
Apoc was dogshit since his first appearance
>Original Excalibur
That was a fun book, wasn't it?
only when Clairemont and Davis were on the book otherwise it was kinda bad I guess the Warren Ellis run wasn't the worst outside of the Kitty sex thing
Fair. We need a fun X-Book again.
Sexo. Who are they?
Kitty and an English Banker that the 616 version of saturnyne
The banker version from 616 was dead at that point. That was the Nazi version that killed the Banker version and assumed her life to get close to Excalibur.
Alan Davis draws sexy women
I know Giffen died. That's I wrote "it could never happen".
Alan Davis draws sexy everything.
I just want a fun X-Men book like Excalibur or PAD's X-Factor.
Excalibur went downhill the moment it became just another X-Men book and removed Captain Britain
honestly at this point, i would like to see another take on pads serval xfactor
I'd do bad shit for a book like that, I just read the early-mid 2000's X-Factor and it was one of the comfiest books outside of the Concentration camp arc and Madox's life going to utter shit. The last chunk with them dealing with non-mutant super human shit was the best
I feel like now would be a good time for it after the mutants pissed off every government in the world. Is Val Cooper still around? It'd be nice to get her back
Don't know who I'd trust to write it though
You know, I've wondered how a Giffen/DeMatties X-Men run would go. I know it could never happen but those 2 glorious bastards on an X books sounds interesting.
JMD actually did write a bit of X-Factor after PAD left back in the 90s.
I thought it was pretty good
Huh, interesting. I remember being shocked he did some Avengers before JLI and that Beast & Wonder Man came off as proto-Blue & Gold.
JMD did a lot of good shit in the 90s
>Is Val Cooper still around
She last showed up in a USAgent mini a couple years ago. The governments most competent stooge is still kicking.
>The governments most competent stooge is still kicking.
Way to set the bar low when her competition is Nick Fury (who caused the whole Unworthy Thor fiasco by a miscommunication), everyone involved in the Hulk project (who kept banging on Mega Satan's door despite it resulting in nothing but big monsters), and Maria Hill (no elaboration necessary)
Imao reminds me how the governments LEAST competent stooge got the Cylon treatment
I'm surprised it took what, fifty years. for someone to finally off Gyrich.
>Cap: Good Lord! Henry Gyrich is....dead!
>Hawkeye: YES!......I mean....
>Cap: Clint!
>Tony: Steve, let's be real, the fact he's survived this long is a minor miracle. I can name maybe 5 Avengers who DIDN'T hate him and that's because they didn't deal with him.
>Hawkeye/SamCap: Ding-dong, Gyrich is dead! >Which old witch? Henry Gy-rich
>Ding-dong, Gyrich is dead
>Hawkeye: God I wish Hank was alive to see this both of them
shit, the rest of the avengers dont know that pym is alive, do they? even though janet is a loud mouth
>Hawkeye: God I wish Hank was alive to see this both of them
That's depressing and hilarious. Also
>After all the BS, Abigail Brand gets a package with Asgardian & Olympian booze, a custom S.W.O.R.D outfit by Janet Van Dyne, the newest StarkPhone, Jarvis' recipes & a message from SamCap and Clint telling her to keep up the good work.
......I wonder how the Avengers feel about this. I mean, one hand, it's Gyrich. But....did he deserve to die?
>did he deserve to die?
He was working with Orchis so yeah he got what was coming, that being said he honestly got off easy considering X-men have taken to commiting far worse unironic atrocities against Orchis
Everything the X-Men are doing in response to Orchis, retroactively justifies Orchis in principle which is amazing because Orchis is the most cartoonishly villainous organisation in a fricking comic book setting. On top of recruiting from every major Marvel villainous organisation the whole thing is a front for a Dominion trying to secure the eternal survival of it's existence in the future.
Seriously what the frick is up with how powerful Dominions are supposed to be?
>Taken out by supernova
>Taken out by P-force and hot sword
>Claims to have infinite power
>Enigma is for whatever reason the only one that can threaten the entire omniverse but the other Dominions don't seem to care nearly as much compared to X-Men shit in the past
Duggan really fricking showed his hand as the type to immediately turn to doing fricked up shit if it's against the "right" people. His entire last wrap up of the X-book is him jerking off to extremely violent fantasies against his so called enemies. I've had a lot of arguments with X-gays over this shit but I'll say it again;
You can't have the heroes killing like this, yeah they can kill especially in extreme circumstances but taking sadistic glee in it no thanks even if it's against the worst of the worst. Killing doesn't make you as bad as the bad guys but sadism and torture sure as frick does
I mean my take is that there's self-defence, there's warfare, and then there's UNLEASHING THE FRICKING BROOD TO SPITE AN ORGANISATION THAT ISN'T EVEN SPACEFLIGHT-CAPABLE
>Orchis
>not spaceflight-capable
on their orbital base that they used to transit to their other bases on the moon and orbiting the sun?
You know what I mean, they aren't anywhere close to the Kree technologically. At least, they shouldn't be from a logical standpoint but you don't see many Kree drones soloing every mugga ever with one body slam
Orchis is based around Mercury so it's clearly spaceflight capable just not able to leave the Sol System, the fact the Solar system exploration wasn't explored better during Krakoa is a travesty that would have been more interesting than whatever was going on during New Mutants, X-factor, or Marauders.
Oh, so Orchis can plot genocide but you can’t use Brood, who are controlled by Broo and thus are just alien goons, to fight against Orchis?
If you want to be fricking heroes you sure as frick can't do that
When your numbers are decimated, you’re fighting for survival against a genocidal organisation with overwhelming numbers and overwhelming power, you’re essentially fighting a guerrilla war and the rules of engagement change. You aren’t operating as a hero anymore. You’re a soldier waging war.
>When your numbers are decimated
No one actually died. The mutants were moved to the White Hot Room and it wasn't even Orchis's intention to kill them, they legitimately just wanted them to live on Mars. Mother Righteous just made the situation look worse than it was on her own.
>No one actually died.
*Except the mutants in Orchis' concentration camps
Mutant Resurrection Protocols means killing a mutant's body didn't actually kill them. This became especially true after Wanda worked her magic to allow them to resurrect literally everybody.
Here it is, this fricking bullshit cope borderline copy pasta. No frick you and frick the writers, just because the chips are down, the outcome is bleak or the bad guys are the worst of the worst kinds of fascists' doesn't give the heroes, the excuse to indulge in acts of sadism and degradation fricking miss me with that shit you terrorist frick
on retreating enemies at that
I feel like there should always been an aura of sad resignation when a hero has to take a life. Unavoidable at times but done so with reverence that weighs heavily on them. Or done in a way that there's perhaps division in the ranks. It should be not be done as a FRICK YEAH WE ARE AWESOME TAKE THAT FASCISTS!
Out of all the pieces of media I've consumed New Vegas had one of my favorite thoughts on killing and this is from a character who was one bad day away from doing exactly what the X-men are doing
>Fascist
This is pretty much the hot new buzzword ain't it
Orchis are though Duggan just likes having the characters scream it as a sort of thought terminating cliché before doing pretty fricked up shit to them as "justification"
They fit the literal definition.
No, anon, they're not fascist cause that implies they've got personalities beyond "Herp derp kill dem muties". AIM minions are at least all greedy self-interested bastards. Hydra agents will at least attest to being either too stupid to grasp what they're getting into or genuinely believe a world under HYDRA rule will lead to better things. ORCHIS goons don't even warrant that. They're faceless meat puppets so that readers can imagine them as whatever alt-right chud of the week they're angry at being smashed to a pulp or ripped apart gorily without worrying about the moral consequences of unleashing one of the most evil alien species upon a bunch of duped goons working for robot supremacists. So calling them "fascist" is giving them far more characterization than Duggan actually bothered with.
>the x-men using the brood
What the hell are the writers thinking?
I honestly don't know how Polaris can possibly come back from this as a character. Thanks, Duggan.
Unless they make her entire character arc in whatever book she's in next something like, "Oh my God, how could I do something like that. I'm turning into my father."
Polaris gets ignored often enough I wouln't be shocked if it never comes up again
Lorna needs to be pregnant asap
Lorna and Alex need to be freed from core X-Men bullshit for a while so they can be fixed
I need Polaris to be an Avenger for a run. Make a new unity squad with a writer that is not moronic and give her a big role. Make her the only mutant on the team and have her get her cheeks clapped by Thor. It would be kino. Or Steve. But Lorna probably needs someone damaged like Matt or Marc Spector. She seems the type.
>Polaris fricks Matt Murdock
You want Lorna to die?
She'll survive. She's not Matt's usual type of frick buddy
The worst part is where it's said that she used broods specifically because she didn't want to give them quick deaths.
>won't someone think of the genocidal, sadistic human supremacists
I swear to Christ you homosexuals slurping this slop down have only three fricking responses to "I don't like my superheroes being sadistic killers"
Yes, the guy was literally part of Orchis that exist solely to genocide mutantsx8aj8
Man it's really telling how distorted shit got from Gyrich being the guy who had to be the hardass doing the grunt work of making it so the Avengers were allowed to do their jobs.
Yes he did the paperwork but Gyrich's an butthole. Who the frick makes Earth's Mightest Heroes take a fricking bus?
I think all uses of Xavier suffer from him not really serving a purpose in the comics. They killed him off in the 1960s because they wanted to have the young cast go out and have adventures on their own, and then he was brought back (before that was totally common) probably for no better reason than Neal Adams wanted to draw him.
As far back as the Silver Age he's always being portrayed as a guy with hidden agendas who keeps secrets from the X-Men, but writers also go to the opposite extreme and portray him as some kind of saint, and his portrayal kind of ping-pongs between saint and scoundrel, but it's all related to the problem that the X-Men don't need him around.
>but it's all related to the problem that the X-Men don't need him around.
They killed him off in AvX and the X-books were worse off for it. The same for him being sidelined after Decimation. The X-Men really lost their way when you didn't have Xavier around as a moral voice with Cyclops leading and instead becoming more and more closer to Magneto over time.
the biggest losers are anti-krakoa gays. they're going to eat the upcoming goyslop and pretend that they love it
Krakoa is imploding. The new books show it's doomed. Anti-Krakoagays won.
You have got a bunch of gender studies majors taking over the books.
The losers are the anti-krakoa gays since From the Ashes is going to implode.
Counter-point: X-Men has been shit since the 2000s so I don't care. Krakoa was awful because it infected other books which I actually cared about
Bold of you to assume anti-krakoagays don't hate Krakoa enough to cheer gender studies majors if it means shitting up mutants forever.
homie mutants have already been shitted up forever the moment we all let the gays nearly exclusively claim them
Mutants were shit long, long before then. This is merely salting the earth to ensure nothing ever grows back.
homie that was a chunk of the Krakoan writers. Anyway Mackay is kino so I'll check his book out. Phillips rumored Phoenix is guaranteed to be dogshit.
wonder when we will get more news on those subbooks
Probably at sdcc
>implying anyone who quit reading the X-books was actually going to come back
This, to be honest. If the X-Men books would just stay in their own lane and leave the rest of Marvel alone, and the rest of Marvel just quietly retconning it's mutant characters into having some other origin, a lot of us who've been complaining would probably just stop paying attention to whatever gay racewar nonsense the mutants are doing.
>You know, I've wondered how a Giffen/DeMatties X-Men run would go. I know it could never happen but those 2 glorious bastards on an X books sounds interesting.
Anon, do you not know? Do we have to be the ones to break the bad news to you?
See a lot of it would stop being an issue if the X-Men stopped two things
>Trying to hijack the story of every character that is or has associated with mutants
>Quadrupling down on the "everyone hates mutants, every storyline is about da bigots wanting to kill all mutants" bullshit
As opposed to eating the current slop and pretending to love it?
I shshshjswj
How Krakoa should have ended.
Meme Kang was more right than he thought.
>Dominion-Sinister is officially the first cosmic threat to leave even TOAA baffled
I don't even like Kang but this based and I wished it happened during the Krakoan era for the pure seethe. Maybe between mid 21 around HFG 1 and Planet Size X-Men and early 22 when Red and Immortal launched.
That's written by someone who never fricking read Uncanny Avengers
>>Kang's timeline is mutant free because it's one of the timelines where all mutants left Earth to set up home on another world
future where mutantkind leaves for the stars, they basically end up in a fascist dictatorship aka Krakoa where they preach mutant supremacy
>>Kang's entire future hinges on this happening, since the Apocalypse mini from the 90s firmly establishes the fact that Kang and Apocalypse's bad future is a binary situation where you either get Kang's future or Apocalypse (and from him Cable/Stryfe's) future with no way of them co-existing.
all mutants from Earth you get Kang's future and Apocalypse's future never happens. Let the mutants stay on Earth and Kang's future never happens, and you get Apocalypse's future which leads to Cable/Stryfe happening.
No it doesn't. Betsy as Captain Britain has only happened because Hickman's frick toy demanded it because she alone was dead set on making Betsy the MCU Captain Britain to spite Henry Cavill who was rumored to have had a standing offer to play Brian/Cap Britain.
And given how badly Kwannon flopped by herself, ten gets you twenty that they body swap again and kill off Kwannon/Betsy's original body or say "frick it...." and put Betsy in a bikinni and make her a white British version of the Jim Lee Asian Psylockes and have her frick Angel again for Uncanny X-Force nostalgia while sending Rachel back into comic book limbo.
Nah if anything Betsy will also enter limbo with Rachael, which means Captain Britain won't ever get fixed.
There's no way they'll do the body swap again, they're more likely to just act like Kwannon is Betsy and not use Betsy anymore
Why not just get a good writer to write Betsy having awesome adventures in Britain & Europe as Captain Britain?
to much work for breevort
Man frick that noise. It shouldn't be that fricking hard. The whole Captain Britain thing is fun comic books on a silver platter. Shit, make a new Excalibur.
>Betsy
>Rachel
>Motherfricking Union Jack
>Death Angel
>Nightcrawler
>Motormouth
>And Brian & Meggan show up every now & again
Have them adventure around, go up against Doom since he's in Europe and amongst other things.
I'd say add Black Knight, give his daughter her own identity, and Alison Double because she's cute.
Because no one wants Betsy as Captain Britain. Give Brian his job back and work out an actual role for Betsy
I always find it hilarious that Tini's idea to solve Bety's little identity crisis was to have her steal her twin brother's identity.
I still get mad thinking about how this bullshit happened to begin with
>Brian is getting captured
>Asks Betsy to hold onto the amulet for safe keeping
>Betsy decided to use it to become Captain Britain
>Scolds Brian later for "forcing" the position onto her when she was the one that chose to do it
>Also refuses to give it back to him
It's like they wanted Betsy to be an unlikable c**t
>to spite Henry Cavill who was rumored to have had a standing offer to play Brian/Cap Britain.
homie wat. This is schizo speculation.
>This is schizo speculation.
Nah Tini "the c**t" Howard wanted the MCU royalties and she hates Cavill, is very plausible
>My memefic
>Who is the BIGGEST LOSER of the Krakoa era?
The readers.
>tfw Magneto never got any of the economic shit he threatened the politicians at Davos to materialize
X-corp flopped so Editorial decided economic warfare wasn't something the readership was invested in
>Corporate intrigue book about Angel trying to run a business while Monet runs around like a power mad psycho
>Made Madrox a bad dad
Of coarse if flopped.
tbf to Tini Howard on that one I doubt any of the other writers could have done a much better job with X-corp, it simply is not the type of story that is well suited to big two comics writers i.e. complex detailed story where the financial drama is key to how it progresses which requires a readership that is either informed about such economic systems or the story has enough runway to explain those systems to the reader efficiently, modern comics are just ill-suited to that.
still don't understand what was going on with that Monet characterization in that book though.
Can we admit that brevoort era is going to be worse?
I'm starting to relate to Moira. The idea the brevoort era will be worse fills me with joy at the idea of mutants either suffering, or being degraded with modern buzzwords until nobody can take them seriously.
>all those magnetic powers and he couldn't handle robots
Magneto can't even handle a dude with a metal mallet
Xmen/Mutants are generally below Thor and other sky father level beings because at the end of the day, they only scale to planetary at best while Thor scales to universal or casual galaxy.
Ewing wants you to believe Storm is pound for pound on the level with Allfather Thor.
Ewing thinks power wanking is pointless and the readership should stop giving a shit about it
>Ewing thinks power wanking is pointless
Unless they're writing Storm, apparently.
He should be fired then
Dumbass, Thor fricking played along to make her feel better, he literally asked her own lightning to stop effecting him and it listened
mental illness
Only a moron would be proud of writing that
I honestly don't know how things could possibly get worse yet I somehow know they will.
You remember Operation Galactic Storm? When the Avengers debated if they should kill Supremor? Half were against the idea and half went ahead and did it anyways? It was treated like kind of a big deal and caused a rift in the team where characters debated their responsibilities and even if you sided for or against you understood the points made by either? It wasn't just characters power posing and screaming FASCIST!
Ah yes, the same Avengers who were subsequently split into Tony believing the Avengers' top priority should be murdering a little boy and Carol believing the Avengers' top priority should be abusing said little boy's precognitive visions as if Marvel has literally no other precogs, all of which was caused by said boy becoming an Inhuman because of a random Terrigen Mist cloud. And also Thanos was unceremoniously bodied early on but everyone treats it like a massive tragedy because Rhodey died (and also She-Hulk was hospitalised)
>little boy
he was in his 20s
and also that was literally THIRTY YEARS LATER
He gets bullied so hard I keep forgetting he isn't a helpless little boy tbh, the story sure fricking treats him like one until he apparently becomes a god and Eternity himself comes over so they can get cosmic brewskis while Carol just hovers there crying
You know when I complain about how modern stories are worse, pointing out a shitty modern story being worse isn't really the best argument. But that would require you to actually be able to understand the point being made and not some tribal AvX moronation.
Making Cap, a WW2 vet, the most oppossed to killing anybody in war time scenario (the supreme intelligence having just killed billions of kree btw) was moronic honestly.
For better or worse, the official canon at that time was that Steve Rogers managed to get through WW2 without killing anyone, was strongly against killing and that the first time he'd ever killed was a mid 80s story where he shot a terrorist.
And to be fair, Galactic Storm wasn't about "killing in war time", it was about executing a head of state for war crimes. It's as much about whether the Avengers had any right or jurisdiction to do so as whether they should kill, and whether the Supreme Intelligence counted as being alive or just a computer, Iron Man's position was that they were just destroying a computer.
Huge difference between two guys with rifles pointing at each other and killing each other and a soldier having who is basically the leader of the opposing country being held dead to rights and no longer an immediate threat and executing them.
>>he successfully stops it
Did he, though?
What's some good Captain Britain stuff to read if I liked Claremont's Excalibur?
Moore and Davis' CB run pretty much sets up everything for Excalibur.
The 2001 Excalibur Mini.
The Uncanny X-Men House of M tie-in issues.
New Excalibur.
Captain Britain and MI13.
What issues does MODOK show up in and where is he?
I don't care about any characters but MODOK. Show me him.
Duggans X-men i think starts in #3 or so, he is mostly as just comic relief though
You know what might have been interesting? Kwannon, in Betsy's body, as Captain Britain. Just to get a really outside perspective.
We don’t need more trans allegories in x-men.
>Kwannon, in Betsy's body, as Captain Britain
Juggernaut and black tom, they were a nice gay couple but now tom left juggy to have krakoa stick roots in his bussy. juggy now slumming it with the xmen when he shold be an omega villain beating the shit out of thor hulk and the thing
Yeah, I feel sorry for them too.
Nearly everyone suffers uncanny valley syndrome, Magik, Spidey and Luna are cute however. And "Doctor Strange" is blatantly just Tony Stark with dyed hair LARPing as a wizard.
Is it too much to ask for a status quo wherein the X-Men are actually accepted by the populace outside of your few nutjobs, hate groups and gorillionaires with murderous robots instead of HUMANITY IS CONSTANTLY FIGHTING A WAR WITH MUTANTS OVER CONTROL OF THE EARTH AND THE FUTURE?
The whole "mutants vs men/machines" shit is getting old.
It's especially funny if you compare how humans received mutants compared to how humans received Asgardians the one time they crashlanded in America.
Apparently humans are more prepared to accept the existence of actual gods than kids with long necks.
amen
Anyone who wanted Beast to not be Dark Beast (again) but then the writers copped the frick out and made him Dark Beast (again) anyways. Like god damn, couldn't even be a little original could they?
there's like 4 or 5 comics dropping today. how are we feeling
x-force is all the way at 50 issues. god so many better comics didn't get that long of a run
Rise is good. The rest are ass.
>how are we feeling
like marvel is not going to get any money from me
When’s them last time we’ve had a new wave of mutants
*the
I sort of lost track after the Generation Hope batch.
did we really get any major or even notable new guys in the Krakoan era??
>max
I haven't read X-Men since the 90s, when did Magneto's name become Max?
X-Men: Magneto Testament from 2008.
from the not-canonical Magneto Testament. In 616 Mags should still be Erik and from Poland, alas Ewing tries to show his nerd knowledge so he considers Testament to be canon (it isn't)
Magneto Testament was always canon. Additionally they got rid of "Erik" in 1997 when Magneto killed the guy who created that alias for him to keep his true name hidden.
Apocalypse.
Dude had the misfortune of being written by Tini Howard and becoming a wife guy.
If you guys want some Xman like content while the main series is busy shitting itself to death I highly recommend chojin x.
X is great, I love these perverts
At one point I hated how few Gambit related things had came out, but now I realize things were so bad him not showing up aside from holding Rogue's purse on occasion probably saved his character
Basically all the heroes of the X-Men got shat on because Hickman wanted his X-Men run where he just ripped off Dune and Gaiman Miracleman. The X-Men are revealed to not actually accomplish anything and fail. Meanwhile, Xavier, Magneto and Moira despite seeing how things pan out don't come forward with knowledge that would actually help the X-Men in their mission because they want to keep in control. In HOXPOX, Hickman literally just goes "Oh yeah, everything that the X-Men did meant nothing, it was all gonna go to shit and Magneto/Xavier didn't even believe in the shit that they were spouting".
Moira, a character who was characterised as being unambiguously kind and good, proof the dream was feasible was retconned into being a manipulative b***h who actually never gave a shit about anyone, who was retconned into basically letting herself get raped to birth Proteus and being a discount Bene Gesserit.
Meanwhile, you have a bunch of writers desperately trying to convince us that the supervillains who are in Krakoa are actually "totally misunderstood", which is probably the most prominent with Greycrow and Apocalypse. Greycrow went from a guy who literally murdered kids for sport, had been Sinister's number 2 for decades and helped him literally round up German concentration camp victims to send to Sinister's own camps with a grin and a smile, to "My daddy hit me and I actually didn't like murdering people".
Meanwhile Hickman did to Apocalypse what he did to Doom. Wanked him off and ignored the central joke, that being that Apocalypse was never what he preached and absolutely a pathetic wretch whose power came from the blessing of the gods, not his own strength like he claims. Hell, he got rid of the Celestial stuff entirely despite it being essential to Apocalypse's characterisation and instead did "Mutant magic".
It's such a goddamn awful era of X-Men and as people get more distance, I think they'll be able to see that.
>ignored the central joke, that being that Apocalypse was never what he preached and absolutely a pathetic wretch whose power came from the blessing of the gods, not his own strength like he claims.
Anon no. Writers who try to claim everything about Apocalypse comes from Celestial tech are just ignoring his origin mini and other appearances set before he finds the Celestial ship, and he has virtually all of his powerset already. You were right about everything else, but this one thing is a weird widespread misconception.
I think the real truth of the matter is the literally no one likes apocalypse. He looks stupid, his powers are stupid, his gimmick is stupid, and his character is just shit. I've never seen anyone ever claim to actually enjoy reading him in any other context then when he's getting his ass kicked. The fact that he's still regularly used in any capacity is a testament to how out of touch the writers
Apoc's claim to fame is that his original set of appearances was pretty solid, the highlight of a run that was rapidly decaying and burning through the good will of a just starting to die industry, and that while we didn't realize it at the time he was the last big impressive grisly villain who would ever have actual stakes or hype not because he was all *that* good but because everyone after him comes into existence in a time period where the homosexuals at Marvel had finally realized Jim was never coming back to tard wrangle them and DC no longer had to try and compete with a tard-wrangled marvel, so everyone could just do literally whatever the frick they wanted and nothing mattered anymore.
The problem is that he's very much a product of his time. He's an over designed character with an over complicated backstory, and a really boring motivation, whose sole claim to fame is that he's a violent edgelord. He's the kind of villain that's good for one big story arc then needs to be shelved indefinitely.
His backstory isn't that complicated persay, he's an old as shit mutant who got Celestial tech with some of the usual celestial baggage bullshit. It's more his *history* that developed to fill in the gaps that got overcomplicated but the worst of that is admittedly Krakoa's fault.
I wouldn't say he needs to say gone forever but he's definitely the kind that loses impact the more he's used. It should be a big deal any time he shows up so maybe you brush him off every 6 or 7 years for a bigger moment.
Big world breakers like Ultron, Thanos, Kang and Apocalypse ect should only show up once a decade for an all hand on deck event after a LOT of build up not relegated to weekly jobbers
The Big A has a cool design and villains who convert people into edgy-looking villains are also cool (see also Cenobites, the Borg).
An important point about Apocalypse is that in addition to a lot of his earlier stories being pretty strong for the time, he's a comic villain who was PERFECTED in an adaptation. The 90s cartoon version of him is a very popular villain, all Marvel really needed to do was copy that, instead of constantly adding more baggage, retcons and changes onto him. He's also one of those characters a lot of X-Men fandom has developed a real hateboner for, and constantly dismissing him as some jobber that's always getting beaten up, which isn't really fair or accurate. He's one of those villains who just escapes when his plan is thwarted a lot more often than actually getting physically defeated by a hero, though like with Juggernaut there are times when it did happen just so some writer could show off how powerful /theirguy/ was.
Right here on Cinemaphile this week we've had people making false claims about Apocalypse "constantly jobbing to literal children" which isn't remotely true but some people just hate him that much. Nothing's going to ever win those people over, but just write him like in the cartoon and everyone else will enjoy it.
I mean aren't all villains "jobbers" if you're going to be that pedantic about it. It's their job to lose against the hero.
It’s like wrestling. We all know it’s fake and scripted, but Hulk Hogan dropping to the floor in a single finger poke from Kevin Nash still feels like a waste of everyone’s time.
That only sucked because they did it once already. If they hadn't already pulled a fast one before, it would have been legendary.
Right, but you do understand the point though. Villains are meant to ultimately lose to the hero, it’s just a matter of how entertaining or memorable they make their encounters before losing.
Yes, but in my point is also the acknowledgement that having the villain win can enhance a story as long as it eventually has a proper payoff.
Villains can wins battles not wars.
Loosing to the Babyface during WrestleMania is one thing loosing to some dimeless frick getting a push by the booker is another
Villains can win depending on the story.
It's been a long time since I've seen the cartoon but what really stands out apart from the design was his menacing voice
Doom was always a funny villain because while he never really fully redeemed he's still flexible enough to where you buy the team ups and even when they do it's always with someone keeping an eye on him and short lived. They don't call on Doom to be a teacher at the future foundation.
It helps that one of the few people who gets Doom and in turn gets the most sympathy from Doom, Valeria Richards, will straight up agree that her uncle Doom is a bad guy and does plenty of bad things despite doting on her and being motivated more than once to do the right thing with her encouragement. That's the difference between Doom's treatment and Apocalypse's, really. Doom for all his greatness and potential for nobility is a self-serving snake in the grass and not even the people who sympathize him ever try to say otherwise, while with Apocalypse the X-men themselves were practically breaking their spines bending over backwards to both accommodate him and apologize on his behalf to explain away how he was never truly as evil as several decades of comic book history showed him to be.
Oh yeah, you can buy team ups because the heroes treat him like an actual dangerous dude. At the same time, his origin for his hatred with Richards is so funny. It's literally "I burned my own face off out of spite."
The last time the mythology of Apocalypse was interesting imho was Uncanny X-Force where Remender tied him directly to the celestials and that he was just a cosmic pawn. Remender Evan was probably the closet we got to the character being interesting post Simonson.
In Hellions, Wells has him go "Oh I had an abusive upbringing and I was tricked into thinking I was doing the right thing" as his motivation across the cloning etc. In the actual stories of Greycrow, he never was like "I'm a well intentioned dude", he had a hard on for murdering the shit out of people which included murdering kids because they were simply defective mutants.
ORCHIS are unironically the biggest collection of villain sues and also the most pathetic collection of antagonist. Literally come out of nowhere, and the X-Men go "Oh, these are the greatest threats we've ever faced before" and Hickman dedicates an entire page to go "They totally trounce the X-Men guys!" Hell, their leader was literally just Baron Harkonnen minus the pedo shit
I might hate the majority of Duggan's run, but I like he actually tried to put actually established characters on ORCHIS instead of Hickman's donut steels who no one cares about.
The only credit I can give to the use of established supervillains in Orchis is that it gave the image of MODOK, Stasis and Ninrod hanging around like a bunch of super scientist frat bros fricking up the mutants’ shit for fun was funny as shit. Otherwise, the choices were strange and rather stupid. Fricking Judas Traveller? Really?
Greycrow was already like that before Krakoa. And all of Sinister’s henchmen have been established as having been cloned countless times so the surviving version of him breaking the mold works.
Toad
>Risks his safety to get the Mother Mold plans in exchange for a home on Krakoa
>Destiny reveals she was part of the Black Womb project because she knew it would lead to Krakoa, which means it was built on the experimentation done on him and baby mutants like him
>but hey at least he finally has home where he's not persecuted
>Until the Cotati attack and Magneto only makes his dramatic entrance to singlehandedly end the battle, SECONDS after the General breaks Toad's neck.
>Convenient. But at least the resurrection protocols means he can come back to life off panel
>In time for Magneto to give hims orders to take the fall for Wanda's murder, which Magneto himself couldn't possibly do himself.
>Not a single person the island questions how Toad got the magic weapon to kill her.
>Not a single telepath reads his mind to double check, despite Toad suddenly stepping up to take the blame off the boss who abused him
>When Wanda speaks up that she's alive so "no harm no foul", Magneto doubles down on sentencing him to the Pit; an eternal solitary confinement in stasis
>Wanda proclaims she's going to stay and fight for his freedom but actually goes to Exodus's child cult circle to spread the story of her redemption
>Magneto apparently feels really bad about it...so he moves to Mars.
>When he's down in the pit he doesn't even get to rest because Sabertooth converted it too hell
>Doesn't even get to be a part of the Exiles team-building escape plan
>It's probably an artistic miscommunication but Toad may have still undergone the same torment under Sabertooth's rule, just not with everyone else
>When that's all done Cypher kicks him out of the Pit and makes him join the Exiles team because he thinks Toad sucks to much to be left alone under Krakoa
>Feels isolated and distrustful around them because he missed out on the bonding adventure
>Finally in Sabertooth Wars he actually seems to have found his place with them
>Just in time to have his arms ripped off by Sabertooth and probably die
>Meanwhile Magneto comes back to life and is telling people Toad agreed out of love for Wanda and downplaying his influence on Toad
>Skips any mentions of the orders Toad unhappily described
It's telling that Nekra expressing sadness over his probable his death is the nicest thing that's happened to him so far.
Now he can look forwards to
>Finding out that the Waiting Room is completely empty and no one's using it.
Everything he went through was for nothing.