No way. No matter how good or bad things were then, at least the X-Men were still recognizably the X-Men, and hadn't become as unlikeable as they'd go on to become in the 2000s and 2010s.
Bendis is a shithead but at least he was interested in telling a story (poorly) instead of just jacking off to a dumb power fantasy
Bendis was playing to a different kind of power fantasy of fighting the cops, SHIELD and the establishment superheroes to protect and recruit the mutant teens that the authorities are trying to arrest or kill for no reason, and empty talk of the coming revolution. It played to the power fantasy self-inserters just as much as Hickman's orgy island ethnostate does, but as the real world got crazier, so did the power fantasy.
>She could never stand leaving Wolverine's wiener that long
Pretty sure anyone who manages to pull it out of Cyclops' butt gets crowned king of Krakoa.
Husband and wife stay loyal to each other is basic moral, you must be fricking mentally ill to think otherwise. Cyclops and Jean Grey are terrible beings what's difficult to admit it?
Believe it or not, most people don't think it's a good idea IRL, and also don't want to see fictional characters they've followed for years suddenly doing this either.
>this shitpost that I made up
The Yakub stuff was a joke from the thread about it, but the latest issue of Marauders really did claim there was a highly advanced civilization of mutants on Earth before humans even existed.
Jon Hamm? So I guess Mad Men exists in Marvel. Funny to imagine the SCDP gang reacting to Galactus touching down for the first time or whatever shit was going on in Marvel 60s
>put mutants on an isolated island in the middle of a bay
They stayed alive on that Island until he was betrayed from within. You can make up hypotheticals all day long but it's canon that Scott kept those backbiting b***hes alive no matter how many nations were trying to finish the job. Then in AvX he fought off *everyone* and pulled it off: he brought mutants back.
>he brought mutants back.
No he didn't. Hope did that, after she and Wanda were done kicking Scott's ass when he killed millions and tried to destroy the entire world.
>Cyclops tried to destroy the Earth, and killed millions >he was right
What's wrong with you?
Even if you're trying to credit him for what Hope did, it wasn't a good thing. She didn't give any former mutants their powers back, she turned a new generation of normal humans into mutants, ruining their lives in the process.
>brought mutants back
for what? so he could warmonger the other mutants to start a race war with inhumans, then medusa stops the mist, making it the inhumans that saved mutants from their own bullshit, no cyclops saving anyone? cyclops didn't do jack shit
wait no, cyclops did something. he started an ethnostate with magneto, apocalypse, sinister, mystique, and invited cassandra nova (who's guilty of genocidal crimes against mutants) over with open arms like it's nothing
99% of mutants 'powers' were just curses or disfigurements, and the X-Men have spent about 20 years trying to take those people's chances of a normal human life away from them just to make their own lives mean something.
for what? so he could warmonger the other mutants to start a race war with inhumans, then medusa stops the mist, making it the inhumans that saved mutants from their own bullshit, no cyclops saving anyone? cyclops didn't do jack shit
wait no, cyclops did something. he started an ethnostate with magneto, apocalypse, sinister, mystique, and invited cassandra nova (who's guilty of genocidal crimes against mutants) over with open arms like it's nothing
The idea of the former child soldier growing up and realizing his mentor's flaws only to become a freedom fighter for his people and planet is such a strong character arc.
I just can't get over how easily people are willing to accept separation as a solution for racial divides when you look at how people talk about Krakoa.
People say that it's fine if a minority is the one enforcing racial separation like enforcing a state with government, laws, and culture based purely around your ethnic status (and even the superiority if your ethnic status, overtly) isn't incredibly wack in itself.
They also say that of course the X-Men had to separate because of the decades of history of genocides attempted and successful on their kind like this isn't solely because the X-Men brand of being horrifically persecuted had to be artificially maintained and people haven't been saying that the handling of X-Men within the Marvel universe has been clumsy and difficult to believe for decades.
You can justify fricking anything in a fantasy setting if you just, you know, write the justification for it. They could've written mutants as universally bloodthirsty conquering buttholes and justified sentinels coming for them but that wouldn't have made it a good fricking look.
nah, it's just liberals who end up with racist plots because, as right wingers, liberals settle in to racism just like any other right wing authoritarian.
in IvX, beast suggested they frick off to space. that was when they should have explored the mars thing, that was when they should have pushed to ask the avengers to let them integrate
OH WAIT.
VVVVVVV
https://i.imgur.com/52EBEvr.jpg
Cyclops was right
captain america already invited mutants to join the rest of society. captain america and cyclops had that conversation in the savage land. cyclops didn't take captain america up on his offer. now they're a shitty ethnostate and beast has been forced to fit in by turning from one of the best most moral characters to being considered worse than the actual villains not because he's a villain, but because he's been x-men writers' scapegoat for 10 years straight
cyclops gays are literally up their own ass. x-men is where it is now because cyclops was held up like he was hot shit in a champagne glass. the result is cold diarrhea in a dixie cup
I'd say it's obviously better, but it's still not good. That's kind of the point. The fact that you can say the X-Men were plausibly justified into taking this course of action doesn't matter because the writing was always a shit portrayal of racial divides and shit writing can be used to justify anything you can imagine.
The idea of marvel's favored allegory for social/racial justice struggles coming to the conclusion that we're too fundamentally different and the only solution that will work is getting away from our oppressors and start a new land SOLELY BASED on racial divides is a nightmare.
not when captain america offers them a place in the world.
not when they pass up the chance to frick off in to space when it matters
not when they invite cassandra nova with open arms.
not when they join with apocalypse, the biggest social darwinist in the marvel universe
saying those details don't matter is damage control. no, it's not plausible because no normal person would be friends with cassandra nova. we're here because writers chose to have cyclops be the main chad character. this is worse than integration, this is worse than if they fricked off in to space. the way it is now, an ethnostate on planet earth while not integrated is a recipe for race wars. there is no "moral of the story" here, this is capitalists writing reactionary scenarios, the opposite of class consciousness and cooperation
if they wanted to be isolationist, they would have fricked off to another planet or even another solar system, which can be done in the marvel universe with the help of the shiar, maybe even nova corps to help with nova corps. hell, there's no reason for mutants not to work with the nova corps on humanitarian efforts in the galaxy/universe. none of what they're doing makes sense unless you just accept liberals are racist and the correct path would be ending alienation of different factions, which is part of marxism. capitalist writers will never do that. i don't know why you're saying that what marvel is doing is nightmare after trying to say it's "better". it's literally the worst one possible
Painting mutants as insane monsters as in the deliberately extreme hypothetical would be pretty terrible.
The issue though is that the X-men's treatment in the marvel universe never made sense. For the longest time, people have been saying that they should probably split off into another universe because the sheer gravity of the hate mutants receive in 616 has multiple problems. >It's so extreme that it makes everyone else in the marvel universe look terrible by proxy for not doing anything about it, literally millions dead and governments constantly secretly trying to kill them, every other hero in the universe looks like a massive butthole whenever they have to deal with the X-Men because for the X-Men concept to persist they have to be persecuted to the degree of being forced to violently defend themselves >It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. In the Marvel universe, you have literal demons, evil foreign regimes, hostile alien races, swarming monsters of all stripes- mutants being the one thing all humans seem to agree to hate feels utterly absurd and unnecessary. >Because the universe isn't ABOUT the X-Men, their struggle usually seems irrelevant outside of their books. The sticking point of a social struggle is usually that a group is everywhere and not going to go away, but they're not being heard or treated rightly. X-Men would have to believe that mutants becoming accepted is an inevitability and that they're everywhere, but they also never appear outside of their own books. To be a proper allegory they need to be an actual part of humanity
what do you mean would be? what do you think is going on right now at krakoa?
>there's hate for mutants >this can never change ever ever ever
bad argument
>makes everyone look terrible
so have them reach out, like captain america did when he spoke with cyclops in the savage land
(cyclops turned him down, this is a failure of the writers)
>demons
inferno >evil foreign regimes
Latveria (?) doesn't contraindicate mutants >hostile alien races
you mean like brood and phalanx? >swarming monsters
yeah and? >it's unnecessary
ah so the other stuff is normal but mutants are the part that you think is superfluous? what the frick is wrong with you?
>their struggle is irrelevant outside of books
pretty sure avengers and ff got shunted to another reality because of onslaught in the 90s
>never appear outside their own books
beast was an avenger
>to be a proper allegory they need to be part of humanity
well yes. that's what the premise of fricking was. it's like stan lee came up with this shit and then 60 years later dumbass liberals can't fathom the shit they claim to support
For how much the fanbase and X-Men writers love God Loves, Man Kills, they seem to miss the part where Stryker's human followers turn on him and realize that not all mutants are bad.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Claremont X-Men isn't really a part of the discussion. His shit was more restrained. It's all the post-Morrison writers who kept increasing the mutant plight to ridiculous proportions.
>pass up the chance to frick off in to space when it matters
Why should they frick off to space? They've essentially done the same thing anyways. Krakoa doesn't harm humanity in any way. They've even bargained for their recognition when they could have demanded it with nothing in exchange.
not when captain america offers them a place in the world.
not when they pass up the chance to frick off in to space when it matters
not when they invite cassandra nova with open arms.
not when they join with apocalypse, the biggest social darwinist in the marvel universe
saying those details don't matter is damage control. no, it's not plausible because no normal person would be friends with cassandra nova. we're here because writers chose to have cyclops be the main chad character. this is worse than integration, this is worse than if they fricked off in to space. the way it is now, an ethnostate on planet earth while not integrated is a recipe for race wars. there is no "moral of the story" here, this is capitalists writing reactionary scenarios, the opposite of class consciousness and cooperation
if they wanted to be isolationist, they would have fricked off to another planet or even another solar system, which can be done in the marvel universe with the help of the shiar, maybe even nova corps to help with nova corps. hell, there's no reason for mutants not to work with the nova corps on humanitarian efforts in the galaxy/universe. none of what they're doing makes sense unless you just accept liberals are racist and the correct path would be ending alienation of different factions, which is part of marxism. capitalist writers will never do that. i don't know why you're saying that what marvel is doing is nightmare after trying to say it's "better". it's literally the worst one possible
Painting mutants as insane monsters as in the deliberately extreme hypothetical would be pretty terrible.
The issue though is that the X-men's treatment in the marvel universe never made sense. For the longest time, people have been saying that they should probably split off into another universe because the sheer gravity of the hate mutants receive in 616 has multiple problems. >It's so extreme that it makes everyone else in the marvel universe look terrible by proxy for not doing anything about it, literally millions dead and governments constantly secretly trying to kill them, every other hero in the universe looks like a massive butthole whenever they have to deal with the X-Men because for the X-Men concept to persist they have to be persecuted to the degree of being forced to violently defend themselves >It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. In the Marvel universe, you have literal demons, evil foreign regimes, hostile alien races, swarming monsters of all stripes- mutants being the one thing all humans seem to agree to hate feels utterly absurd and unnecessary. >Because the universe isn't ABOUT the X-Men, their struggle usually seems irrelevant outside of their books. The sticking point of a social struggle is usually that a group is everywhere and not going to go away, but they're not being heard or treated rightly. X-Men would have to believe that mutants becoming accepted is an inevitability and that they're everywhere, but they also never appear outside of their own books. To be a proper allegory they need to be an actual part of humanity
>would be
what do you mean would be? what do you think is going on right now at krakoa?
>there's hate for mutants >this can never change ever ever ever
bad argument
>makes everyone look terrible
so have them reach out, like captain america did when he spoke with cyclops in the savage land
(cyclops turned him down, this is a failure of the writers)
>demons
inferno >evil foreign regimes
Latveria (?) doesn't contraindicate mutants >hostile alien races
you mean like brood and phalanx? >swarming monsters
yeah and? >it's unnecessary
ah so the other stuff is normal but mutants are the part that you think is superfluous? what the frick is wrong with you?
>their struggle is irrelevant outside of books
pretty sure avengers and ff got shunted to another reality because of onslaught in the 90s
>never appear outside their own books
beast was an avenger
>to be a proper allegory they need to be part of humanity
well yes. that's what the premise of fricking was. it's like stan lee came up with this shit and then 60 years later dumbass liberals can't fathom the shit they claim to support
you're not saying anything
I think you're confused
Eat shit commies
No racial divides cannot be changed because biology has already made them insurmountable and no you aren’t going to have your disgusting mud brown dystopia
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
Eat shit commies
No racial divides cannot be changed because biology has already made them insurmountable and no you aren’t going to have your disgusting mud brown dystopia
So nazis are really digging the new direction the X-Men have taken.
Once upon a time, within the X-men it was a well established fact that Scott 'Cyclops' Summers was the put-together boy scout team leader X-man with a massive stick up his ass but fully willing to believe in and commit to Xavier's dream of peaceful integration between humanity and mutants by way of showing the good they could do. It was also a well established fact that Wolverine was the cynical bad boy counterpart whose bullt-headed stubbornness, rough treatment from life, and cynical personal views on how humanity will never properly accept mutants lead him to perpetually clash heads with the goody two shoes leader of the X-men regarding nearly everything. In short, everyone either loved or hated Scott for being the straight laced heroic type, while everyone either loved or hated Wolverine for being the whiny bad boy who shivs people.
...And then in the 2010s, some chucklefrick decided to switch the two's position, and now you have Wolverine as the short tempered leader of a mutant educational institution trying to protect the dream of integration not out of personal beliefs but out of respect for the memory of his friends who have died trying to make that dream come alive, while Cyclops is now the hotheaded cynical bad boy who never stopped working to protect the X-men but is too emotionally burnt out from how much life sucked to think humans and mutants can get along and will repeat it as many times as possible to your face while STILL having a massive stick up his ass.
And yet Wolverine became considered the mutant uncle tom for being the goody two shoes and Cyclops the "Right"clops for being the abrasive dick this time around. Primarily because years of bad stories and shifting demographics has lead not just the X-men but the fans themselves to buy into Magneto's bullshit that a race war is inevitable between humans and mutants. Ergo, this tired old meme. The X-fandom's a funny thing that way.
Since Krakoa started I've learned X-Men readers are massive wienergargling homosexuals, figuratively and literally, which makes sense given X-Men sucked for 30 something years in a row now.
The X-Men broke him out, they then spent years screeching about SHIELD and the Avengers considering Scott and Emma criminal fugitives, and acting like they had no reason to do so at all.
It's honestly amazing how tone-deaf Claremont and other X-Men writers have been about Magneto, Emma, and other mutant villains joining the X-Men and expecting everyone else to just accept they've changed sides and should be allowed to get away with everything they've done.
>It's honestly amazing how tone-deaf [comic book writers] have been about [villain characters] joining [superhero team]
>B-But the Avengers accepted ex-villains.
Because what Clint, Natasha, Wanda, and Pietro did back in the 60's is at all comparable to what Magneto and Emma have done.
>Because what Clint, Natasha, Wanda, and Pietro did back in the 60's is at all comparable to what Magneto and Emma have done.
Sadly, I think a combination of Ultimate Marvel and X-Men cartoons having versions of Wanda and Pietro who were full and willing members of the Brotherhood, and X-Men fandom always telling new readers to ignore 60s X-Men and start with Claremont does mean there are a LOT of readers who honestly don't know that Wanda and Pietro weren't really villainous at all and spent more time trying to escape or undermine Magneto's plans. Even Jason Aaron doesn't know, his Heroes Reborn event last year had as an actual plot point that they would have "remained villains" if the Avengers hadn't recruited them.
Silver Age Magneto was retconned to being insane because of his powers or some shit. His first heroic turn around the Claremont New Mutants era was fine.
>His first heroic turn around the Claremont New Mutants era was fine.
It really wasn't. It takes a villain who was trying to conquer the world, trying to enslave humanity or exterminate them with nukes, and pretends he was just trying to protect his people from persecution. And it lets him just get away with everything he'd done. Shooter really should have said no to Claremont on this.
As someone who hasn't read an X-book in several years, my understanding of it is every action of his past a certain point became "mutant survival at all costs" and when others in-universe were calling him out for it, the writers (knowingly or not) vindicated him nearly every time.
Why does Scott still need the visor in the Krakoa era? The only reason he couldn’t control his optic blasts was because of a head injury he sustained as a child. He’s been resurrected multiple times already, are they bringing him back with the same head injury or something?
I know they’ve rezzed that one girl with the mechanical leg without restoring her original limb, but that’s at least a visual thing, I can sorta understand not wanting to give that up, even if I personally wouldn’t do the same. But keeping a brain injury that forces you to wear a visor every minute of your life is moronic.
Was thinking on start reading xmen what order should i Go?
Firstlass>Clermont>god loves>agr of apocalypse>Morrison>AXM>House of M
What should i read after house of M to cover until AvX? Also anything to add?
Kids and women never like a disciplined and responsible leader characters. Many writer always fail to write a good leader. They always put these character in unnecessary torment.
Do you remember Garfield's orange penis?
AvX was shit but the aftermath was kino.
Is Beast still ugly or did he revert back to a sexy face?
yeah everyone loves Wonder Woman now
c'mon buddy, you know Marvel's sliding timeline will have squeezed that out of canon by 2025
it's just dogshit, wipe your shoe and move on
those are certainly words
those are certainly words
They're words, but arranged into sentences that make no sense at all.
Only the stuff with Gillen, Bendis pretty much ruined the concept.
I agree, also Schism
I have the feeling that in latter years, nothing X-men related in between this and Hickman's run will be acknowledged.
>cuclops
opinion disregarded
>Non canon shit
Denial isn't healthy.
Every comic after 2008 is not canon
>on panel
>non canon
>Cyclops was right
>to join Logan's harem
The X-Men ended at
This point, Bendis takes over plus they merely exist as means to drum up cheap publicity for the MCU
At least choose an earlier end point. At least a decade earlier.
The decade of 92-02 was certainly worse than 02-12
No way. No matter how good or bad things were then, at least the X-Men were still recognizably the X-Men, and hadn't become as unlikeable as they'd go on to become in the 2000s and 2010s.
Bendis was playing to a different kind of power fantasy of fighting the cops, SHIELD and the establishment superheroes to protect and recruit the mutant teens that the authorities are trying to arrest or kill for no reason, and empty talk of the coming revolution. It played to the power fantasy self-inserters just as much as Hickman's orgy island ethnostate does, but as the real world got crazier, so did the power fantasy.
Bendis was based
Bendis is a shithead but at least he was interested in telling a story (poorly) instead of just jacking off to a dumb power fantasy
bendis already took over by then, wotxm was just a prelude
Right about the awesome taste of Wolverine and dozens of other men's cum
>and dozens of other men
....who else has he been sucking off? Xavier? Beast?
Depends on Jean, Cyclops can only taste second-hand cum
>Implying Jean doesn't just sit back and watch Scott getting WOLVERINED all night long
She could never stand leaving Wolverine's wiener that long, in fact as a selfish b***h as she is she won't even share it with Scott
>She could never stand leaving Wolverine's wiener that long
Pretty sure anyone who manages to pull it out of Cyclops' butt gets crowned king of Krakoa.
It's not up to her, even her son calls in Wolverine to take care Scotts needs.
i admire your weird autistic devotion to heterosexual relationships in fictional comic books
I'm pretty sure anon is implying they do gay stuff.
True.
Wolverine is Summer's dog/pet. You just know
So you're say Scott lets his own dog sexually dominate him?
you can't pronounce bestiality without best
wonder if jean feels weird having a full family of kids that everyone would swear are hers but aren't actually her kids.
why the frick is Cinemaphile so afraid of women fricking other people. Its not like your ever getting a gf you frick
Husband and wife stay loyal to each other is basic moral, you must be fricking mentally ill to think otherwise. Cyclops and Jean Grey are terrible beings what's difficult to admit it?
It’s so funny polyamory triggers Cinemaphile so much
It basically triggers everywhere as much, I wonder why
usually it's at people in poly relationships doing dumb shit, not at the very idea in a fictional context
Oh really of course
Believe it or not, most people don't think it's a good idea IRL, and also don't want to see fictional characters they've followed for years suddenly doing this either.
I honestly can't even tell if it's trolling at this point. Fricking Poe's law.
It's a white thing, you wouldn't understand. Get back to me when your race figured out how to land on the moon.
But mutants existed before humans and probably reached the moon first.
Thanks, Marvel.
>Krakoa believes in this shitpost that I made up
Ok moron
>this shitpost that I made up
The Yakub stuff was a joke from the thread about it, but the latest issue of Marauders really did claim there was a highly advanced civilization of mutants on Earth before humans even existed.
NASA was integrated.
Jon Hamm? So I guess Mad Men exists in Marvel. Funny to imagine the SCDP gang reacting to Galactus touching down for the first time or whatever shit was going on in Marvel 60s
right on what tldr please
>tbf logan is kinda a prick
GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE! YOU'RE MAKING A DELIVERY TO THE MUTANT-HATING PARAMILITARY CHILD-MURDERERS OF THE POINTLESS DRAMAGURO CLUSTER! OFF YOU GO!
I'd offer to go with you, but I am already in my pajamas.
>Cyclops was right
About what
Bullshit, he just took credit for what others did.
he was right to do what? put mutants on an isolated island in the middle of a bay that can easily be bombarded by artillery from all sides?
much strategery!
>put mutants on an isolated island in the middle of a bay
They stayed alive on that Island until he was betrayed from within. You can make up hypotheticals all day long but it's canon that Scott kept those backbiting b***hes alive no matter how many nations were trying to finish the job. Then in AvX he fought off *everyone* and pulled it off: he brought mutants back.
>he brought mutants back.
No he didn't. Hope did that, after she and Wanda were done kicking Scott's ass when he killed millions and tried to destroy the entire world.
in other words, Cyclops was right
>Cyclops tried to destroy the Earth, and killed millions
>he was right
What's wrong with you?
Even if you're trying to credit him for what Hope did, it wasn't a good thing. She didn't give any former mutants their powers back, she turned a new generation of normal humans into mutants, ruining their lives in the process.
99% of mutants 'powers' were just curses or disfigurements, and the X-Men have spent about 20 years trying to take those people's chances of a normal human life away from them just to make their own lives mean something.
Scott only got the Phoenix because the Assvengers wanted to stop Hope from doing what she had to do.
>brought mutants back
for what? so he could warmonger the other mutants to start a race war with inhumans, then medusa stops the mist, making it the inhumans that saved mutants from their own bullshit, no cyclops saving anyone? cyclops didn't do jack shit
wait no, cyclops did something. he started an ethnostate with magneto, apocalypse, sinister, mystique, and invited cassandra nova (who's guilty of genocidal crimes against mutants) over with open arms like it's nothing
Rightclops
The idea of the former child soldier growing up and realizing his mentor's flaws only to become a freedom fighter for his people and planet is such a strong character arc.
I just can't get over how easily people are willing to accept separation as a solution for racial divides when you look at how people talk about Krakoa.
People say that it's fine if a minority is the one enforcing racial separation like enforcing a state with government, laws, and culture based purely around your ethnic status (and even the superiority if your ethnic status, overtly) isn't incredibly wack in itself.
They also say that of course the X-Men had to separate because of the decades of history of genocides attempted and successful on their kind like this isn't solely because the X-Men brand of being horrifically persecuted had to be artificially maintained and people haven't been saying that the handling of X-Men within the Marvel universe has been clumsy and difficult to believe for decades.
You can justify fricking anything in a fantasy setting if you just, you know, write the justification for it. They could've written mutants as universally bloodthirsty conquering buttholes and justified sentinels coming for them but that wouldn't have made it a good fricking look.
and the look right now is better?
nah, it's just liberals who end up with racist plots because, as right wingers, liberals settle in to racism just like any other right wing authoritarian.
in IvX, beast suggested they frick off to space. that was when they should have explored the mars thing, that was when they should have pushed to ask the avengers to let them integrate
OH WAIT.
VVVVVVV
captain america already invited mutants to join the rest of society. captain america and cyclops had that conversation in the savage land. cyclops didn't take captain america up on his offer. now they're a shitty ethnostate and beast has been forced to fit in by turning from one of the best most moral characters to being considered worse than the actual villains not because he's a villain, but because he's been x-men writers' scapegoat for 10 years straight
cyclops gays are literally up their own ass. x-men is where it is now because cyclops was held up like he was hot shit in a champagne glass. the result is cold diarrhea in a dixie cup
I'd say it's obviously better, but it's still not good. That's kind of the point. The fact that you can say the X-Men were plausibly justified into taking this course of action doesn't matter because the writing was always a shit portrayal of racial divides and shit writing can be used to justify anything you can imagine.
The idea of marvel's favored allegory for social/racial justice struggles coming to the conclusion that we're too fundamentally different and the only solution that will work is getting away from our oppressors and start a new land SOLELY BASED on racial divides is a nightmare.
>justified in taking this action
not when captain america offers them a place in the world.
not when they pass up the chance to frick off in to space when it matters
not when they invite cassandra nova with open arms.
not when they join with apocalypse, the biggest social darwinist in the marvel universe
saying those details don't matter is damage control. no, it's not plausible because no normal person would be friends with cassandra nova. we're here because writers chose to have cyclops be the main chad character. this is worse than integration, this is worse than if they fricked off in to space. the way it is now, an ethnostate on planet earth while not integrated is a recipe for race wars. there is no "moral of the story" here, this is capitalists writing reactionary scenarios, the opposite of class consciousness and cooperation
if they wanted to be isolationist, they would have fricked off to another planet or even another solar system, which can be done in the marvel universe with the help of the shiar, maybe even nova corps to help with nova corps. hell, there's no reason for mutants not to work with the nova corps on humanitarian efforts in the galaxy/universe. none of what they're doing makes sense unless you just accept liberals are racist and the correct path would be ending alienation of different factions, which is part of marxism. capitalist writers will never do that. i don't know why you're saying that what marvel is doing is nightmare after trying to say it's "better". it's literally the worst one possible
Painting mutants as insane monsters as in the deliberately extreme hypothetical would be pretty terrible.
The issue though is that the X-men's treatment in the marvel universe never made sense. For the longest time, people have been saying that they should probably split off into another universe because the sheer gravity of the hate mutants receive in 616 has multiple problems.
>It's so extreme that it makes everyone else in the marvel universe look terrible by proxy for not doing anything about it, literally millions dead and governments constantly secretly trying to kill them, every other hero in the universe looks like a massive butthole whenever they have to deal with the X-Men because for the X-Men concept to persist they have to be persecuted to the degree of being forced to violently defend themselves
>It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. In the Marvel universe, you have literal demons, evil foreign regimes, hostile alien races, swarming monsters of all stripes- mutants being the one thing all humans seem to agree to hate feels utterly absurd and unnecessary.
>Because the universe isn't ABOUT the X-Men, their struggle usually seems irrelevant outside of their books. The sticking point of a social struggle is usually that a group is everywhere and not going to go away, but they're not being heard or treated rightly. X-Men would have to believe that mutants becoming accepted is an inevitability and that they're everywhere, but they also never appear outside of their own books. To be a proper allegory they need to be an actual part of humanity
>would be
what do you mean would be? what do you think is going on right now at krakoa?
>there's hate for mutants
>this can never change ever ever ever
bad argument
>makes everyone look terrible
so have them reach out, like captain america did when he spoke with cyclops in the savage land
(cyclops turned him down, this is a failure of the writers)
>demons
inferno
>evil foreign regimes
Latveria (?) doesn't contraindicate mutants
>hostile alien races
you mean like brood and phalanx?
>swarming monsters
yeah and?
>it's unnecessary
ah so the other stuff is normal but mutants are the part that you think is superfluous? what the frick is wrong with you?
>their struggle is irrelevant outside of books
pretty sure avengers and ff got shunted to another reality because of onslaught in the 90s
>never appear outside their own books
beast was an avenger
>to be a proper allegory they need to be part of humanity
well yes. that's what the premise of fricking was. it's like stan lee came up with this shit and then 60 years later dumbass liberals can't fathom the shit they claim to support
you're not saying anything
I think you're confused
For how much the fanbase and X-Men writers love God Loves, Man Kills, they seem to miss the part where Stryker's human followers turn on him and realize that not all mutants are bad.
Claremont X-Men isn't really a part of the discussion. His shit was more restrained. It's all the post-Morrison writers who kept increasing the mutant plight to ridiculous proportions.
>captain america offers them a place in the world.
What does this mean?
>pass up the chance to frick off in to space when it matters
Why should they frick off to space? They've essentially done the same thing anyways. Krakoa doesn't harm humanity in any way. They've even bargained for their recognition when they could have demanded it with nothing in exchange.
Eat shit commies
No racial divides cannot be changed because biology has already made them insurmountable and no you aren’t going to have your disgusting mud brown dystopia
Kys shitskin lover
Ethnostates are good and your brown trash is going to extirpated
So nazis are really digging the new direction the X-Men have taken.
How does cyclops sleep?
With his eyes closed.
I think I liked Cyclops's rightness more when he was dead.
Mark Waid wrote the best cyclops
can someone explain this to a noncapeshit gay?
Once upon a time, within the X-men it was a well established fact that Scott 'Cyclops' Summers was the put-together boy scout team leader X-man with a massive stick up his ass but fully willing to believe in and commit to Xavier's dream of peaceful integration between humanity and mutants by way of showing the good they could do. It was also a well established fact that Wolverine was the cynical bad boy counterpart whose bullt-headed stubbornness, rough treatment from life, and cynical personal views on how humanity will never properly accept mutants lead him to perpetually clash heads with the goody two shoes leader of the X-men regarding nearly everything. In short, everyone either loved or hated Scott for being the straight laced heroic type, while everyone either loved or hated Wolverine for being the whiny bad boy who shivs people.
...And then in the 2010s, some chucklefrick decided to switch the two's position, and now you have Wolverine as the short tempered leader of a mutant educational institution trying to protect the dream of integration not out of personal beliefs but out of respect for the memory of his friends who have died trying to make that dream come alive, while Cyclops is now the hotheaded cynical bad boy who never stopped working to protect the X-men but is too emotionally burnt out from how much life sucked to think humans and mutants can get along and will repeat it as many times as possible to your face while STILL having a massive stick up his ass.
And yet Wolverine became considered the mutant uncle tom for being the goody two shoes and Cyclops the "Right"clops for being the abrasive dick this time around. Primarily because years of bad stories and shifting demographics has lead not just the X-men but the fans themselves to buy into Magneto's bullshit that a race war is inevitable between humans and mutants. Ergo, this tired old meme. The X-fandom's a funny thing that way.
Mutants are buttholes.
I hope they get Genosha'd again soon
Since Krakoa started I've learned X-Men readers are massive wienergargling homosexuals, figuratively and literally, which makes sense given X-Men sucked for 30 something years in a row now.
It took you a while. Are you a moron, as in, were you in special class, because you were so fricking slow?
I didn't care to know until mugga lovers stepped outside their containment threads.
in other words, you are a black person of color
damn this comic sucks
imma go reread Age of Apocalypse, at least that shit's fun
how did he get out of doing serious jail time again?
The X-Men broke him out, they then spent years screeching about SHIELD and the Avengers considering Scott and Emma criminal fugitives, and acting like they had no reason to do so at all.
Makes sense since the X-Men have always flipped out if anyone tries to arrest Magneto since the Claremont days.
It's honestly amazing how tone-deaf Claremont and other X-Men writers have been about Magneto, Emma, and other mutant villains joining the X-Men and expecting everyone else to just accept they've changed sides and should be allowed to get away with everything they've done.
>It's honestly amazing how tone-deaf [comic book writers] have been about [villain characters] joining [superhero team]
I mean, you're not wrong, but the X-books are just out of control on this issue in a way nothing else comes close to.
>B-But the Avengers accepted ex-villains.
Because what Clint, Natasha, Wanda, and Pietro did back in the 60's is at all comparable to what Magneto and Emma have done.
>Because what Clint, Natasha, Wanda, and Pietro did back in the 60's is at all comparable to what Magneto and Emma have done.
Sadly, I think a combination of Ultimate Marvel and X-Men cartoons having versions of Wanda and Pietro who were full and willing members of the Brotherhood, and X-Men fandom always telling new readers to ignore 60s X-Men and start with Claremont does mean there are a LOT of readers who honestly don't know that Wanda and Pietro weren't really villainous at all and spent more time trying to escape or undermine Magneto's plans. Even Jason Aaron doesn't know, his Heroes Reborn event last year had as an actual plot point that they would have "remained villains" if the Avengers hadn't recruited them.
I don't want to invoke Tommy, but I could go on about all the shit Doom and Namor did.
Magneto was literally a terrorist
Silver Age Magneto was retconned to being insane because of his powers or some shit. His first heroic turn around the Claremont New Mutants era was fine.
>His first heroic turn around the Claremont New Mutants era was fine.
It really wasn't. It takes a villain who was trying to conquer the world, trying to enslave humanity or exterminate them with nukes, and pretends he was just trying to protect his people from persecution. And it lets him just get away with everything he'd done. Shooter really should have said no to Claremont on this.
What the frick was Cyclops even supposedly right *about* again?
As someone who hasn't read an X-book in several years, my understanding of it is every action of his past a certain point became "mutant survival at all costs" and when others in-universe were calling him out for it, the writers (knowingly or not) vindicated him nearly every time.
About what?
Why does Scott still need the visor in the Krakoa era? The only reason he couldn’t control his optic blasts was because of a head injury he sustained as a child. He’s been resurrected multiple times already, are they bringing him back with the same head injury or something?
I know they’ve rezzed that one girl with the mechanical leg without restoring her original limb, but that’s at least a visual thing, I can sorta understand not wanting to give that up, even if I personally wouldn’t do the same. But keeping a brain injury that forces you to wear a visor every minute of your life is moronic.
Why did this piece of shit deprive us of Rightclops' full potential?
I hate him so much. I hate him more everyday. Everything he touches is ruined.
Was thinking on start reading xmen what order should i Go?
Firstlass>Clermont>god loves>agr of apocalypse>Morrison>AXM>House of M
What should i read after house of M to cover until AvX? Also anything to add?
Kids and women never like a disciplined and responsible leader characters. Many writer always fail to write a good leader. They always put these character in unnecessary torment.