I think Ian Flynn is not making as good work as he used to. I think if more people read his Archie Sonic run people will get to be able to understand why some people like his writing and how he originally used to have such a good reputation that people were begging him to work on the games. I don't know why it happened or what's going on but his newer storylines are blander and less creative than his older ones. Nowadays from what I'm seeing his perception as a comics writer is pretty split down the middle and controversial.
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I miss Penders
Can you buy old archie sonics anymore? How do you read them legally now?
You can't
Rats
I an can be a great writer when he is dropped in a pre-existing world with a lot of material that doesn't have a lot of rules, that's when the magic happens.
However, when he gets pressured or pushed, either to follow rules or make a quick change, bad decisions or lack of creativity/motivation ensues.
Archie already had hints of what was to come in IDW.
>Ian was forced to make Sonic: Genesis and he didn't want to.
People say that Genesis was lacking, and that Ian wasn't giving it his all. While admittedly not the most exciting arc, its still one of my favorites anyway. Sweet ending too... right before the pain...
>Charmy
Makes him moronic via brain damage instead of just using a macguffin like the one Amy used or some other explanation like that, would've been a lot cooler.
>Robotnik having a mental breakdown
The Freedom fighters let him go with Snivley for... reasons? I don't even know why that happened.
Then of course, we have IDW. It feels like that Ian just gave up due to the more restricted world and less lore, with him having to start from scratch after having his shit nuked twice. Don't really blame him. The question is, how much did his decline stem from depression, and how much from his actual inability to write new stuff?
Buy them used from either Amazon or Ebay.
There's also this site (adblocker/content blocker recommended): https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Sonic-The-Hedgehog
It’s nice to imagine it’s just the mandates but honestly I think he was never as great as people liked to say.
Likewise, Penders isn’t as bad as everyone says, in terms of writing. His legal shitfits have tainted his work.
Same, won’t be buying any new Sonic media until they return (so probably never)
People need to seperate the art from the artist more often. I agree that some people overexaggerate how bad Penders is and how good Ian is due to behind the scenes stuff. But I still think Ian's work on the comic was pretty good and entertaining and more people should read it.
I think his writing style has changed in recent years. I think he is no longer doing the big scope battles as he used to do inside Archie using elements on that universe inside IDW. The arcs almost feel like inconsequential filler by comparison. And he worldbuilds much less often nowadays
>I think his writing style has changed in recent years.
Take note that a lot of what Flynn was known for during his Archie days involved re-shaping/re-framing elements that other writers had already introduced, all while having comparatively less oversight. Coming up with new ways to use existing content and fill existing story holes seems to be more of his specialty than actually coming up with original ideas that are interesting in both concept and execution (the latter of which being the usual problem).
Basically Flynn leans more towards "advanced fan wiki editor" than "skilled writer"
That's his specialty but he came up with new stuff inside post reboot and also Dragon
Kingdom factions and Eclipse the Darkling. Though I do agree he's more of a fanfic writer in terms of his skillset and maybe hasn't really evolved out of that shell because of how long he's been writing Sonic.
have you actually read anything he's done outside Sonic? People's problems with him somehow still show up in his other work. It's not about Sega or Archie or IDW, it's just his style.
I guess its just flaws with his writing style. That I can understand. But its still not too bad.
It definitely has to be noted that his most celebrated contributions to IDW have been “what if roboticization worked like vampires” and “what if the Android Saga but furries.” Novel concepts seem to be… not his strong suit.
At least he still holds the title of “only Sonic to ever definitely get laid.”
Surge and Kit are “what if the Andoid saga but the Androids aren’t an actual threat”.
Imagine if Android 18 slipped on a banana peel on the ground and started crying while having a schizophrenic breakdown. That’s Surge in a nutshell.
Who's Lanolin then?
Sally 2.0.
Very different from israeliteel, Tangle and IDW Amy, who are also Sally.
Very fitting as both are shit.
Lanolin is the tard-wrangler, which basically was Sally's role in Archie, to be the order on which Sonic and company's chaos is compared to.
It's a role that really isn't needed now, and all she does is drag things down, but people like her because Adam Bryce Thomas draws her with fat breasts which makes them clap and go yay.
Sally wasn't even needed in the first place she was dogshit.
My dick needed her
Maybe if she didn't exist your dick would have better taste.
>your dick would have better taste
Bro...?
Captcha: 0XXXY
You heard me, your dick has bad taste.
It's amazing how little she actually mattered to the overall narrative, in spite of both the show and comic bending over backwards to shill her.
*Geoffrey St. John
he popped sally's cherry
it's canon
Lanolin is a sheep she can't be the offspring of a skunk and a chipmunk
Go to bed, Penders.
That's about as canon as JK Rowling saying House Hufflepuff hosts public circlejerk sessions which is to say if you believe it then you're a moron.
>At least he still holds the title of “only Sonic to ever definitely get laid.”
Technically that's not true. That Sonic manga with Nicky and all that had Amy as his girlfriend. So Archie Sonic was the 2nd Sonic to get laid.
There's also AOSTH where he got laid with multiple chicks like Ms Possum, Roxy Racoon, Merna the Merhog and voiceless pink Christmas special Sally
Boom Sonic was also heavily implied to be dating Amy behind the scenes.
he wasn't. That thing you see repeated on Boom threads is out of context, Boom Amy doesn't even tell anyone she has a crush on Sonic.
I don't know. It's been a while, but I think there were one or two scenes that implied it.
They weren't dating, but had a clear crush between the two instead of being more onesided like in the 2000s games.
>“what if roboticization worked like vampires”
>not zombies
...zombots is literally the name anon
I think the problem is that SEGA doesn't want to define world of Sonic. I see why they want to do so, since it allows them to pull locales out of their ass, but it isn't really good for building stakes.
Also, the problem is that there no real side villians that can be trashed. There is Clutch and Surge, but they don't really have the means to really mess up heroes. It would be cool to have Nagus back, to contranst with Eggman and his technology.
Rough and Tumble but thats not enough
>Penders isn’t as bad as everyone says
Yes he is. Sonic fans just have abysmal standards and didn't care until they had a grudge against him. People criticize him for stupid shit ("This battered housewife is saying awful things, that's sexist!!!"), but his actual ability to write, especially when he isn't stealing from Kirby, Ditko and PAD is just dreadful.
> Likewise, Penders isn’t as bad as everyone says, in terms of writing. His legal shitfits have tainted his work.
Penders was only capable of making good, initial ideas at his best. As stories moved on, he lost his way on what to do with them or his characters. And then of course he had his infuriating love triangle stuff, echidna propping, and other stupid moments that just make all the good he does, meaningless.
>Penders kept having a 25 year old character sexually assault a 16 your old minor and made him an unlikeable butthole with no good backstory to help.
>Tried to kill off Robotnik to replace him with an OC.
>Tried to kill off Sally for his own interests as well, Seethed when the fans and Sega themselves wanted her back.
>Made Anti-Sonic rape Bunnie and all the other women he slept with.
>All of his dumb love triangle shit.
>Started the Tails cuckshit that Ian unfortunately had the brilliant idea to continue…
>Knuckles stayed green and did literally nothing in the comics for two whole years.
>Knuckles comics started off pretty good but then just became very boring and uneventful.
>Echidna Nazis
>Edited Holocaust poems
>Believes that the age of consent shouldn’t be 18 and knows all of the state laws in the US about the subject matter… makes you think…
>25 years later.
Actually makes a good case as to why Sonic being King isn’t a good idea, I’ll give it that. Shadow being evil… why??
>Everything is Sonic’s fault
Ken making it to where Sonic’s actions to save everyone are actually dooming the world is stupid and goes to show how much he is willing to not understand even the main fricking character, and undermine him, while trying to uplift his own characters and Knuckles, who he turns literally into Jesus (dude even walks on water at some point).
Penders decided one day that this story wasn’t the world of Sonic, but his own world, with echidnas at the helm. When he didn’t get what he wanted, he left.
Ian Droid
>Shadow being evil… why??
The editor wanted Shadow in the book to boost sales. That's it. Ken was frustrated that he had to use the guy.
Oh in that case, if that’s true, I’ll take that one thing back. 25 years later is still only good for showing why Sonic being a monarch is not great for the dude. That’s the only things I’ll give Penders credit for because it’s a pretty accurate idea of how Sonic would turn out. Aimless, mid-life crisis, depressed, the feeling of being boxed in. Being a King is more or less a glorified miserable office job that Sonic had to be chained to everyday for the rest of his life, due to his personality and being.
Ken and Ian both talked about it. Pellerito went full Shadow-pandering to keep sales up while they were flushing inventory stories.
>Penders decided one day that this story wasn’t the world of Sonic, but his own world, with echidnas at the helm.
>When he didn’t get what he wanted, he left.
I think you perfectly nailed the explanation as to what is the deal when it comes to Penders. The man just can't let go of the fact that he invested so much of "his" precious storylines (you know, the ones he definitely "didn't" steal from other authors) in an IP he has absolutely no rights over.
For the same reason, he could have made The Lara-Su Chronicles a completely original thing, with all Sonic ties completely cut and an all new setting, cast and narrative universe... but no.
He needs the Sonic connection, not because he "knows it wouldn't sell otherwise", but rather because he is mentally dependent of Sonic, or to be more accurate, Knuckles.
He feels entitled to Knuckles, even though it wasn't his comic nor his ideas what made Knuckles popular in the first place (I'll willing to make a concession regarding some US Sonic fans, given they grew up with Archie Sonic and related).
>Penders isn’t as bad as everyone says
This is literally the only thing you guys say about him. I've never seen anyone actually enjoy his stories.
The Robin Hood/Atlantis one's ok.
That's about it.
>Penders isn’t as bad as everyone says, in terms of writing.
You're right... he's worse.
Have we really reached the levels of contrarianism and forgetfulness needed to want Penders again. He single-handedly almost killed the Archie Sonic Comics. He was given everything, complete artistic control over the comic and he fricked it up so bad Sega never let the comic writers have the same level of creative control again.
Just ignore him anon, chances are, he is just trolling. Very few people on this planet still like Penders as it is, just a handful of morons on Twitter. Chances are, everyone who praises him like this here is not being serious.
sonic was doomed from the moment they removed my homies from the picture
Antoine looks so cool here
i've been reading (and downloading) the Mega Man stuff. it's pretty good so far. i need to finish.
>Nowadays from what I'm seeing his perception as a comics writer is pretty split down the middle and controversial.
This is more because he now has a bigger spotlight on him than he did during the Archie days. He was always "good" when compared to other writers that regularly worked on the comics/series, but when you significantly widen that horizon his work just comes across as middling.
He only ever worked in the context of Archie, where he was free to write glorified fanfiction. But even then he still had a ton of issues that people ignored out of fear of the comics going back to Penders. Now that he has to adhere to the actual canon he's struggling and falling back on his worst habits. It really makes me glad he never had a chance to work on Mario because good GOD it would be insufferable.
This, Ian is the definition of "big fish, small pond".
It's sad this little blue dude's legacy will mostly be from people measuring his power level. That likely didn't even read his seriese.
It's amazing how he had more personality smashing into the SEGA logo in the intro of S3&K than he does now as Preachy McBluespines.
I'll take power scaling nonsense flooding Archie discussion over the whole "Penders wrote and drew the entire book! Echidnas!" type of talk that has been going on for years
Good GOD no, power scale wanking is the death of conversation all together. Have you seen any given shonen thread on Cinemaphile? It's almost entirely spam, shitposts, and shitposty spam. The DBS generals especially make even THESE threads look sane.
Sega may have mishandled this franchise to hell and back, but keeping those morons at bay by putting a hard cap on the power levels with Super Sonic was the one reasonable decision they've made.
90% of the DBS generals talk about cucking or pedoshit. Latest chapter dropped and I think Death Battle gen talked about it more.
Yeah. If they actually read the series, then they would realize that Archie Sonic is usually less impressive than game Sonic because of how often he ends up with PIW and character shilling.
Every year the Ride shows people that Archie-Sonic really doesn't hold up to nostalgia, outside of the trainwreck factor.
Now kiss.
I went and reread it and I hold it up in the same regard as some of my favorite series such as Dragon Ball and Naruto which also has their fair share of flaws
Nah it's still plenty enjoyable. You can definitely see the cracks start to form during the reboot though.
We get some crying lesbians here and there
Evan introduces a dogshit OC in the form of Gold who we thankfully only saw once
The Ride shows how much one moron rard can obsessive try to ruin other people's fun with his hatred of a dead property while everyone else recalls what they like or don't like from the runs, writers or characters
>only one person in the world doesn’t like muh Ian Flynn’s rancid shit run
Holy frick get over yourself
There are multiples that do not like his writing but most of his Archie stuff is looked upon fondly.
Lol it's not that, there is this really pathetic homosexual who goes in the threads, whines about Sonic self inserts while being all oh whoa is Tails or saying how Sally should bang him or goes into gross detail about cucl stuff or whatever. Honestly people can dislike Archie or Flynn but don't be a twat loser about it, but you probably already know that
This. There is plenty of things to criticize Ian for, and I still love his run. But some people are way too terminally online, it's pathetic.
If the power-level shit was actual legitimate, Archie Sonic should've had 0 problems dealing with Eggman. Literally just defeat the guy and his entire empire by merely simply snapping his fingers. Hell, defeat any enemy in the comic by doing this.
Sonic's real legacy will always be it's music.
He was at his best working with other people's concepts, sprinkling in some new elements, and somehow stringing them together in interesting ways. There was ample room to flesh out the world given how outlandish the contrast is between the archie continuities and whatever passes as Sonic game canon. Flynn is not nearly as strong with purely original concepts and is kneecapped when he can't play off limits game material.
>Flynn sucks, therefore Penders was good!
let's not go nuts here
I didn't say Flynn sucks nor did I say Penders was good. I was just thinking that people don't really seperate art from artist and if you look at it from a neutral perspective some of Penders's work isn't that bad and some of Ian's isn't that good. Still think Ian is the better writer of the two.
Penders is miserable to read, especially without a storytime crew to gawk at it with. But you do you.
Muh mandates
Wasn't he used as an example of how not to write comics in something?
I only hear this from schizo flynn haters, who don't get notable views on their youtube content.
Sonic Universe was good. The main title issues that focused on the game characters were good. Even the X comic issues that Ian wrote were good. The uniting thread is that Ian is actually good when he's forced to stick to using the game characters in a licensed game comic. Everything falls off the rails the more OC shittery is added, especially now with how much fan interaction dominates their creative thought processes.
Explains why I enjoy the IDW classic spinoff comics more than the main run. There's basically no room for awkwardly-handled character arcs and crying OCs.
Huh? His most celebrated works involve the Freedom Fighters. Many of whom are technically game characters, but I suspect you don’t count them as such. Granted his Sonic X work was leagues better than the actual show, but that’s a very low bar.
>Many of whom are technically game characters
Based on the critters in the capsules /= furrified OCs in their image. If it's not SoJ designed, it's non canon.
I'll give them a pass since they predate every game character other than Sonic, Tails, and Eggman, but the OCs I'm referring to are mostly the IDW ones, since IDW isn't allowed to use non-game characters besides their own. This also came up post-reboot Archie since a whole bunch of their OCs got wiped off the board and Ian responded to it by just creating a frick-ton more.
>Huh? His most celebrated works involve the Freedom Fighters.
I'm actually going to call bullshit on that. Outside of that one Sonic/Bunnie two-parter, his most celebrated stories in Archie were ones where the Freedom Fighters were tangential and the focus was on the game characters.
Is the Flynn hate existing outside twitter? In tumblr and other social medias I don't see that much of it in comparison.
People just like to complain more than they like to cheer. Multiple writers with multiple mandates and multiple restrictions means it's easy to point fingers at the writers who have been working longer and have bigger names, which makes them scapegoats for everything. It's like how dumb people think a president can be the one responsible for gas prices.
>It's like how dumb people think a president can be the one responsible for gas prices.
bidengay detected
From what I remember, Tumblr fanbase for Sonic was already pretty small comparative to other sites, even before the porn ban. Archie Sonic was even more niche. Definitely not enough to attract haters to it.
The truth is simple: Sonic was never suppose to be Archie, IDW, Sonic Adventure-Frontiers, and ever since Sonic 2/CD he was doomed to being dogshit because SEGA were never made of people that knew how to make a long term IP that made sense. Even DB, the very thing Sonic is stolen from most, is now a clusterfrick of moronation. It was just destined to fail trying to go for a format about growth and development.
Give me back my fricking Archie characters.
They're gone
I dont like this edit at all
It should have Sega's logo instead of Penders.
not yet https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tzJBq-fPrF4
If Ian Flynn was a great writer Drogune would have a big audience.
There are plenty of great works that go unrecognized. Also different writers have different strengths. I think Ian is at his best when its an established universe with elements to remix and re use and has a skillset more aligned to that rather than coming up with original stories.
It constantly going on hiatus, having poor advertising/release timing (I don't know where you can buy it unless you go directly to Ian's store page), and character designs that weren't streamlined until years later really hampered it.
Did Penders ever release his Lara-Su thing?
No, but he's selling a book collecting the Mobius 20 Years Later stuff into a sort of prequel book which I guess he's somehow legally able to use even though it has actual Sega characters in it
It is a total grift from how I understand it... Or so I thought when I was typing this. Holy shit it is actually set to come out in July, currently taking pre-orders for a $36 Hardcover.
Thats only old Archie issues, at that.
I mean it's still a grift, he's been doing this "my new stuff is coming out really soon" shit for like 12 years now and all he's putting out is reprints of his old stories. Penders never actually wanted to do anything with his OCs, what he wanted was for Archie to cave and pay him royalties for his characters and stories. That gambit failed and while he got the rights to his stuff he can't coast on it and let Archie or another company use them, now that the only way to make money off his work is to actually produce content he's just going to keep dragging his feet.
I can't help but wonder what it was that suddenly got everybody to collectively turn against Ian today. It came out of nowhere.
ABT is worse with him forcing his OC into the comic, at least the Shadow mandates actually do something good for once and protect him from Lanolin.
>today
Man people have been complaining about Ian since the Metal Virus arc dragged on, and it started getting really loud with Frontiers.
Simply put, people carrypicked his "best traits" only for those traits to be decades old shit that doesn't reflect his headspace today on how he does things, while also revealing a lot of his headspace is soulless nostalgiapandering of the Adventure era with zero actual talent and self awareness to how to implement such shit in a way that even remotely comes off as organic and nature to how the games would do story telling in the first place.
If I knew his form of "content" is dangling keys over shitty fanwank references that just tells the audiences "REMEMBER WHEN SONIC WAS BAD ASS AND COOL AND HAD GOOD GAMES YOU PLAYED AS A KID??????" and the overdone lyric as fricking dialogue shit he does as well, then I'd never shill for him just because Pontraff triggered the frick out of the 2000s gaybase. Fact is a real writer that actually knows how to make stories worth shit regardless if Sonic is the topic is who people should have been looking for.
I want the old Flynn back. He was a true creative powerhouse and I love his work. All of his new stuff is making people not see his legacy properly. More people need to read his run on Archie to see it. It's not perfect and it has some of his flaws that he has nowadays but it wasn't nearly the same way it is today.
>I want the old Flynn back. He was a true creative powerhouse and I love his work.
What is your opinion of Drogune? What do you think of New Crusaders? Did you read his Rivals of Aether?
I didn't read any of it but it depends on the differing writing styles he's had over different eras. If it's closer to the one he had in Archie maybe I will like it.
My point is I see some fans be overly superlative about Ian's writing in general when what they mean is "I really liked what he did in Archie Sonic, in a specific moment in time, in specific". It sounds pedantic but it matters, because you're not going to understand him and why people react to his writing if you don't understand his writing in general- how do you know it's his writing you like and not his editing? How do you know what you like isn't his ability to edit other people's work, and his actual writing style is incidental to that? Can you like his writing when Archie Sonic is removed from the equation? If not, then you might start to understand what people dislike in his writing in Sonic too.
It’s easy to target a figurehead. If Stanley didn’t draw good feets, everyone would hate her, too.
You give Flynn haters too much credit.
I'm giving both haters and fans too much credit, which is insane. You'd expect at least the fans to have bothered to read more of the man's work
Yeah because Ian's work only encapsulates Sonic and Drogune.
>Drogune
Good base concept, too focused on franchising, no core motivation. Adam unironically came up with a ton of better ideas for the reboot to the point that I wonder why Ian is even part of it.
>New Crusaders
The most boring superhero comics this side of dropped Spider-Man Unlimited (the book, not the show) plotlines.
>Aether
Probably his absolute worst work. I have no idea what he thinks he's doing. Dungeons was awful.
You didn't mention, but
>Cosmo
Terrible when he thought he had years. Great when he realized he actually just had a few issues.
>Mega Man
Adaptations: God awful.
X stuff: God awful.
Incidental stories: Decent to great.
Ian is his own worst enemy. He holds himself back by being too rigid and not just operating on vibes.
I had no idea Dungeons of Aether came out s year ago.
Most Cinemaphile posters don't go into the Ride threads that are known for their occasional (sometimes very unhealty) Ian simping.
>occasional
Constant. Archiegays are all terminally online manchildren with zero standards. I’ve seen several of them on their faux-gay general admit they’re in their 40s
I'm 21 and all I wanna do is just have fun with the silly and shitty le blue hedgehog comic, is that so bad?
You'll get your discount Freedom Fighter drama and you'll like it.
Why is Lanolin such a b***h??
Because she feels its her responsibility to do what the "heroes" won't and actually do something serious about all the problems Eggman and other villains cause.
Because she has to deal with Tangle's ADHD and Whisper's trauma on a regular basis.
Because she's trying to act like a soldier in a job nobody asked her to take.
So… what? Is she going to be a huge Surge simp since the latter was introduced being buttmad that she got mindraped by Starline because Sonic never killed Eggman, or are all these characters a mixed bag of dropped plot sign posts?
Lanolin would probably favor Surge's approach of actually trying to finish off her enemies instead of just letting them live to terrorize innocent people another day.
is there porn of them together
Yes.
All of it futa.
hot
I mean gay haha
Surge only seems to like Whisper, Sonic's friends, and ironically enough Sonic.
Also I'm pretty sure her wanting Sonic to kill his enemies was dropped as when Evan was writing her she's given monumental amounts of wiener lust and obsession over Sonic and it's not even brought up in issue 67, which Ian did write.
She has to work with Tangle and Whisper, anyone would be irritable in such a situation. Doesn't excuse her existence in the first place but that's how ABT sees her character,
Best case scenario is that she gets killed by Mimic so we never have to see her annoying ass ever again, the only reason people like her in the first place is due to being a coombait titcow.
I kinda relate to Lanolin just this one page cause everyone has moments where they are stressed and want quiet n relaxation but someone is talking about shit you don’t care for and don’t want to hear in the moment
Ian, go take a good vacation. Go to Hawaii or something. You need rest.
Because she is the new pre-Ian Geoffrey.
Eh? How can that be? Archiechads are among the few Sonic fans who might reject Sega’s awful slop. “Moderngays” and “Classicgays” just slurp it right up and ask no questions. You can even find them revising history, trying to pretend Heroes, Unleashed, 06 and Shadow are under appreciated gems rather than pure reeking dogshit.
No, Archiechads and other GenesisGODS are the only people associated with this franchise that have any claim to standards, taste or dignity.
>archie’s self-insert ntr cuckshit
>standards, taste, dignity
HAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Oh god you had me for a second there, anon
Archiechads? The same people who refuse to let go of their garbage tier OCs just because they got their first boner to Sally Acorn? LOL
>zero standards
You're not wrong, I'd let (you) call me daddy 😉
It seriously takes a sheltered autistic Archiegay to think calling themselves a gay wiener guzzler in public is somehow a sick own
You're not saying no though
I'm saying yes - that Sonic self-inserters are wiener-guzzling homosexuals.
>I'm saying yes
Message received! Hit me up and I'll rock your world 😉
Why do Archie-haters get so pissed about other people liking a comic? Are they really all just Tailsgays mindbroken by Fiona?
Noone likes simps. You'd get the same response being a homosexual trying to white knight Bendis or Joe Quesada's shite.
Noone likes gays and troons either so that's a weird angle to try and position yourself as.
Bro, why are you getting so angry? No one here is seriously into the cuck arc, you are just taking the bait and/or getting angry for no good reason, making yourself look like a mentally ill, terminally online twitter user. Don’t you have something better to do, like deleting our replies and non-ride threads? Oh wait… you can’t do that anymore, can you?
We’re gonna enjoy watching you seethe more than ever from here on out.
Archiegays being mentally-challenged homogays just like on every thread
This is also why they simp for shit-tier fanfic writers like Ian
You know, a good pounding would cure (you) of your neurosis 😉
Sadly I heard he was super into cuckoldry, he'd just watch in the corner instead of participating so you are out of luck there buddy
lmao, I'd forgot about that! Such a pity, with an attitude like that he'll never get a partner for me to plap on his behalf ;_;
>today
It's been going for a while.
As for what happended?
While Ian was working on Archie Sonic, he was only exposing himself to the group who even cared about a specific side continuity comic.
IDW was not only a jumping on point for people afraid of big numbers, but it's closer ties to the games and the boasting about how it was canon opened it to scrutiny from a much bigger chunk of Sonic fans.
And then Ian started showing up in a shit ton of non-comic media in some role before straight up getting to write the games. And setting himself up as some sort of 'loremaster' for the games.
Did some people turn against Ian? Probably. But I think a big chunk of it is people who wouldn't have liked him in the first place being exposed to him.
I’m fine with him being a lore master if his job was quality control instead of writing. I’m not fine with needing to justify every single thing and being in a position to, for example, have Tails monologue about his apparent personality inconsistencies, when it makes more sense to totally ignore contradictory elements entirely.
Wasn't the Encyclospeedia filled with errors too?
For a long time there was absolutely no quality control on forums, fandoms, and wikis. Even today you’re likely to find fan theories that are listed as canon fact, like Gerald thinking of creating the Ultimate Lifeform based on the mural in the Hidden Palace, or that the Biolizard looks like Perfect Chaos not because it’s an oversized salamander, but because Gerald planned for that, too.
>when it makes more sense to totally ignore contradictory elements entirely
And then you get people whining still.
I think that his work on Archie is better than his work on IDW
Also excerpts from his podcast have exposed a lot of really dumb takes and lack of knowledge he has on many topics
Examples?
Well people got mad at him when he said they should get rid of the Sol Dimension
He didn't know that Sonic gets stronger and faster as stated in Sonic Battle and Sonic Colors
Stuff like that seems to happen every other week on his podcast.
>He didn't know that Sonic gets stronger and faster as stated in Sonic Battle and Sonic Colors
Meanwhile
The Phantom Ruby ignores universal laws, except when the plot demands Infinite lose.
Which is exactly why I don't understand why anyone cares about powerscaling in this series.
Which is why Silver and Sonic are able to hit him later?
It's powers are literally illussions
For all we know Infinite was always standing a few feet to the side.
To be fair, the Sol Dimension might as well not exist. We have less world building for it than we do for the world of Sonic, which is saying a lot because the main world already has sandcastle world building. I don't know if I would campaign for its removal, but from a writing stand point I could see wanting to free up Blaze to participate in the plot more.
As for the Sonic getting stronger aspect, that's honestly fine to not remember because Sonic is already very nebulously strong and fast, so him getting faster without a demonstration is kinda meaningless.
Specifically, his idea was merging Blaze's planet with Sonic's. So all the locations would still exist, just part of the same planet.
That seems pretty pointless given how Sonic's planet is rarely consistent to begin with.
Which just emphasizes the point there is nothing special about Blaze's dimension that keeping it separate serves a purpose.
It's just an excuse to justify the Sol Emeralds' existence.
Just examples. These kinda things happen pretty regularly on his podcast. All of his takes on Silver really really fricking wrong and he apparently knows very little about the character when writing him but if I get into that the Silver haters will chime up and I don't wanna deal with that.
>As for the Sonic getting stronger aspect, that's honestly fine to not remember because Sonic is already very nebulously strong and fast, so him getting faster without a demonstration is kinda meaningless.
You're missing the point, it's not that Sonic is getting stronger/power scaling/whatever it's that Ian keeps making definitive statements like that without knowing these things, creating misconceptions and digging a hole for himself because he can't help but run his mouth.
Sometimes it feels like Ian's shooting himself in the foot. It's sad to see and I hope he eventually learns from his mistakes
>I hope he eventually learns from his mistakes
After years of inciting fandom rages thanks to his Bumblekasts, I don't think he can do either.
Game purists never wanted Ian to touch the games and he was going to be in for it the moment he did. His reputation in the Sonic comic community though also started to get shaky when he revealed Sally and Nicole were planned to be a possible couple in the Nu-Archie universe. People started to accuse him of pushing “propaganda”, the accusation made worse in IDW with Tangle and Whisper.
But all in and all, people mostly just liked him for his early Archie stuff because he looked miles better compared to past writers like Penders which really boosted his mediocrity. Once Archie died, people really started to notice the flaws of Ian's writing which always existed, but are now very noticeable the more he gets put in the forefront like your post is saying.
People have been sick of him for a while. Fans don't like him shilling lesbians, his terribly paced and padded out story arcs that go no where, and the fact his Sonic morally lectures people like Superman. Seriously, Sonic is supposed to be a guy who speaks with his actions and acts before he thinks. Instead we get issue after issue of Sonic going on moral lectures about forgiveness and redemption. I'm not asking for Sonic to act like he does in StC or OVA, but at least try to write him in character.
The saddest part is the that the best Sonic we recently had was the Sonic that bullied Surge so hard she had a mental breakdown. If it had ended with him beating the shit out of her and telling her that “Eggman makes his choices and you make yours, and I’ll treat you both how you deserve to be treated,” that would have been sexy as all hell. Trying to make her sympathetic (like how Frontiers tried to make Eggman sympathetic) was the wrong move.
Sympathetic villains require heroes who sympathize. Sonic is a borderline anarchist butthole who just wants to be left alone and gets his kicks out of rebelling against authority… which is also why something like the Restoration as anything more than a relief effort should be a huge turn off for him.
Stop posting and get back to work Evan.
You have to understand that even most Surge fans, who aren't a majority in the first place, aren't ryona brained coomers like you, and WANT Surge to be a serious rival, not a weepy punching bag for the supposed hero.
That's a very niche implementation of the character.
I don’t want her to STAY a punch bag. She’s green (figuratively) with a massive chip on her shoulder and got bodied like the rookie she is. I despise her loss at the workshop, I hate the Dynamo Cage, and I hate that at no point will she ever go Power Surge.
What I am explicitly saying is that I don’t want Sonic to feel bad for her, because in his mind she chose to be a bad guy like Eggman. I don’t want Sonic to sympathize with any villains. That was the entire conceit of the post you replied to, because -that- post was agreeing that Sonic shouldn’t preach like Superman.
NTA
While I agree Sonic isn't some superman type boy scout, he also doesn't take any particular issue with people who try to kill him and he was completely fine with Metal when they defeated him during heroes and during SA2 didnt seem to hate Shadow despite their rivalry and Shadow trying to end the world.
Unless he has a specific reason to hate Surge he'll probably treat her like any other person who tries to kill him, which is to say casually and almost friendly the entire time.
I can see why you would think that I want Sonic to hate Surge, but I don’t want that, either. I’m an old man. SA2 Sonic is peak Sonic for me for two lines:
>What you see is what you get! I’m just a hedgehog that loves adventure.
and
>Well! You’ve become a big-time villain, doctor!
It was like I was falling in love with the Sonic franchise again when Sonic was treating Surge like a plaything. He’s at his best when he’s confident and smug. I just want that feeling again, and after typing this all out, I realize that I’m just as bad as everyone else, chasing a high that I can’t have anymore.
>I don’t want Sonic to sympathize with any villains.
That's around where I checked out of IDW. I agree with that's how it should of went, and yeah Sonic is more of an "anarchist" or "force of nature" type character than trying to rebuild furry democracy or whatever is going on. Like a lot of fans with complaints I'm just sick of other fans treating Ian as uncriticizable because of mandates or "he's one of us who got his dream job!". You could have cool moments with Surge still in her villain arc fighting Shadow. I think Shadow would care more about redemption or change than Sonic but he would also be way more brutal than Sonic.
The majority of that was Evan so...
>people blaming things evan did on ian
It keeps happening
Some people still refuse to believe he hasn't been head writer since the end of MV.
Like for real, current thing he's doing is that fang thing lmao.
Evan could use a lot of work, but I feel her stuff's been better. Those Blaze backups late last year Ian did were terrible.
>I feel her stuff's been better
Oh yeah? Like what? I never see anyone talk about her stories except to complain.
The Chao Race arc was a decent start. The VR arc sucked. People like shitting on the camping arc, but only the first issue was bad. Her Surge material was strong, even if people b***h about her being a "jobber." The Egg City arc she co-wrote with Ian was abysmal. The Lanolin/Duo story is mediocre, but better than Ian's Blaze stories. Her Cream two parter was really good. The Salmamder story is goofy and could have used a bit more weirdness, but was a fun little story.
She could be better, but she's usually middling. Most of Ian's stuff on IDW is actively bad. The Classic stuff's been ok, but damn is the rest terrible.
>Her Surge material was strong
Now I know you're taking the piss
>Her Surge material was strong, even if people b***h about her being a "jobber."
What about her character is ""strong""? b***h has no personal history, her backstory revolves around a dead character and her motive is effectively to just make Sonic look good because it's an effectively unachievable task for her paygrade. We also didn't need a third "woe is me" weepy female OC. Surge might be a neat concept but her execution is weak and her continued presence doesn't feel like it has much potential with how she's already been treated.
I think Evan's first three issues of her four issue Surge arc are really fun, engaging comics that mixed fun antics with some character exploration. Last one was a bit repetitive, but the first three could have been the entirety of Surge's presence prior to joining the resistance and the comic would arguably be better for it.
I dunno, I just really am not impressed with her and Kit's dynamic. Even her fans don't seem to be into it.
NTA
Kit seems to be an after thought which is a shame, all he does is act as a plot device to get Surge where Evan wants, he'll probably be the villain she faces off against to prove that she'll fully switched sides.
What’s wrong with his Blaze stories?
Nothing ever happens in them. Even worse, they made her universe become even more underdeveloped when he decided to write off all the pirates that were in it.
Pirates in rush adventure pretty much got wiped anyway tho.
We still had some potential for any pirates that were left to still show up, but Ian just decided to have the story explicitly say how all of them were wiped out and that Blaze should just go to Sonic's universe since there's nothing to do in her world anymore.
>when he decided to write off all the pirates that were in it
Sega did that
>Wow Sonic, we sure are in Spagonia, now let me exposit about my current situation for six pages.
It's not even a story.
Personally I blame ABT.
Mind redpilling me on Evan? I live under a rock.
She wants Surge and Sonic to frick.
Also she's a foot gay.
Started as an regular artist on the Archie comics in the preboot during Ian's run. Wrote one Silver arc in the reboot. Got picked up again for the IDW comic as an artist and was picked by editorial to be head writer after the Metal Virus arc ended and continues to be since while occasionally still doing the art.
Evan is also anti-hetero and can't NOT include LGBT themes in her work. This extends to putting homoerotic subtext in Sonic and Shadow's interactions and trying to introduce LGBT characters under the radar.
She's a coomer, and definitely wants Shadows and Sonic to frick, but I'd say that's more up to her general coomer fujo tendencies.
Just look at how she writes and draws Surge, womans just horny.
>Just look at how she writes and draws Surge
I don't get what A has to do with B.
Unless you're buying into the fan autism that Surge wants to frick Sonic, in which case, that's a really bad look there.
>anti-hetero
So I cite how she draws Surge and Sonic when the fight, I'm calling her a general weirdo coomer, which I think she is, and give an example of what I think is her being that.
Not to mention she's also drawn Shadow and Rouge.
Your pic related's ABT.
Sorry, here's a better picture, I need to sort my Surge folder better.
>Evan is also anti-hetero
She tried putting sonamy moments into the comic, though? Sega forced her to redo one of them because Sonic was blushing.
I'd hit it.
With a brick.
Shut up, Boco
Ian Flynn isn't an incredible writer, but he's infinitely better than the Meta era sonic writers could ever hope to be.
I'll take references and member berries over excuse plots with next to zero continuity between them.
To be fair, I have no idea how much SEGA keeps him under mandates. Apparently they rewrote Frontiers for the Japanese dub because they didn't like Ian's takes on things? I am not totally sure on that front, but for me it would read that SEGA might end up doing another East-West split of canon. Perhaps more subtlety, but that just ends up more annoying for the nittygritty details of worldbuilding.
Also regarding Penders, he isn't that bad overall but he draws really hard from Cape Comics. That caused a lot of total disconnect and massive variance between what characters get shown doing and what they can actually do.
>I don't know why it happened or what's going on but his newer storylines are blander and less creative than his older ones.
He got cucked out of two comic universes. He had big plans and they all went to shit so now he sticks to small sol stuff
You can’t be a super fanatic without having fanatical tendencies.
Yeah I used to argue with the guy and take the bait but he is just sad and not worth even trying to insult cause he does a good enough job of to himself, have to wonder if he actually is a tails fan cause all he does is make people like the character or people who like the character less honestly
Who is your favourite completely C-List character? someone who isn't a game character of significance or one of the massive fan faves or major players from the comics/shows. For me it is Mordred Hood cause he is a reptile which are criminally underused in Sonic and his drsign incorporates him being a cobra in a fun way with his posing or him using a robot shell to cope for being a boop rope, plus like how much of a smug smarmy prick he is then instantly a seething serpent once things go wrong
I admit it, I did think Rob was cool.
They just never did anything good with him.
Funny he was meant to be In the arc that showed of the snake but the pendering happened and so was replaced with Bow, shame as Hood and him having this banter woulda been fun
They weren’t able to do anything with him in the end, he was supposed to show up right before the reboot and Amy’s royal lineage was to be explored further. They couldn’t show Rob again because of Penders
Jun Kun I like him because he is strong and honorable
They were gonna do a zodiac of cyborgs like him but never got to that before reboot, Jun is fun in how much of a blunt instrument and honour autist he is
Probably the alternate angry version of Lara-Su. It was nice how this arc actually gave pay-off to that one old story that initially seemed to go nowhere. I liked how her past was such a sore topic that she took a new name and refused to acknowledge her connection with her father until her very last line. Her dynamics with Silver were fun, too.
Sonic's dad was based.
Yeah made Scourge cry like a b***h then made Naugus leave his house seething about Sonic's infuriating heroic nature bring genetic
Not a Pendersgay tho but she can get it
I think they should just keep Flynn on games and kick Evan off main writer entirely and give the spot to Daniel Barnes. His work on Scrapnik Island was phenominal
you're in a thread about archie.
You must be new, because otherwise you would have noticed who came to ruin the thread and is represented by Sherman in pic related
>I think Ian Flynn is not making as good work as he used to
See the pic you are using for your OP. In it, Sonic lose. One of his most terrible defeat. Back in the day, Ian was allowed to do that. Not anymore.
He literally wins again the issue right after. He was allowed to do more losses in Metal Virus than in this. I'm starting to think Ian fans don't actually read what he writes
Yeah, the hero lose to win again, you are not making a point, there.
My point is anon's acting like Sega won't allow that to happen any more when it literally has.
His friends take it on in two pages. It's the same as Metal Virus or any other overall confrontation in IDW- Sonic or the heroes can lose, so long as it's obvious they'll win after. 175 gets held as this lost standard when it's the most obvious example of it.
His friends take it on because it was designed to be a Sonic-buster, not a Freedom Fighter-buster. It remains undefeated against Sonic.
You can write it off however you want, it's still an anticlimatic end to a big threat and shows the same formula as anything else - heroes get to have losses so long as they're temporary setbacks.
>it's still an anticlimatic end to a big threat
It absolutely isn't. What the actual frick?
He never got his win back against the Egg Beater, his friends had to take it on.
Metal Virus is kind of a strange situation because technically he never loses any fights but he’s always facing setbacks and not saving the day.
The Surge and Mecha Sonic fights are pretty cut and dry examples of the guy never being allowed to lose. He was injured in those battles and he still somehow ends up winning.
Because Sonic in Archie isn't the main character, the Freedom homosexual OCs are.
Jap media never lets the MC lose, ever. If they do, even for a second, they always "find their inner power" and save the day. Always.
If you don't like that, you are anti Japanese and thus anti Sonic.
>Because Sonic in Archie isn't the main character,
He definitely is.
It depends on the arc and the writer, but while Sonic is usually a main player, he usually isn't the one to pull off a win or big plays. Knuckles, Tails, and Sally all get this prophecy type stuff to contend with while Sonic is mostly unspecial.
SatAM was the same way, except Sally was the actual main character while Sonic was more of a weapon.
Archie Sonic pulls off every single win all by himself, he's such a shameless gary stu that 175 became famous because for once in his life the comic stopped sucking him off for 5 seconds. The only "big win" Tails ever was involved with was that awful johnny bravo story, and I don't even know what you mean by Sally since she failed at fricking everything. Maybe you mean her bumping a jetski into Mogul's head? Every time Sally was involved she usually ends up crying about how useless she is, faux dying or needing to be rescued.
He's not a gary stu he has flaws
Lol no he doesn't, at the end of the comic he's the same as he started and hasn't had to fix or improve anything about himself at all.
They even did that awful fanfic trope where the gary stu mc plays a cringy guitar in front of his house and everybody in town claps for him.
and the one where they do a cliffhanger where the mc rides a motorcycle off a cliff. And the one where his "bad" self wears a leather jacket like they think they don't look moronic. Now that I think about it archie had a lot of awful fanfic tropes
It depends on what you're looking for in a series on whether those tropes are good or bad
Then you haven't noticed how through Ian's writing he has a character arc and slowly becomes more humble with time, culminating in his darkest hour during the Mecha Sally arc, where after he gets past it, he's never as mean to anybody as he was before.
>and slowly becomes more humble with time
HAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH`HAHJHHAHAHAA
No fricking way you're this deluded. Archie Sonic's just as much an arrogant spoiled narcissist at the end of Ian's run as he is at the start. He never had a single moment of humility, he's vain as fricking can be
>he has a character arc and slowly becomes more humble with time
no??? What fancomic have you been reading
Sonic late preboot is never as much of a jerk as he was around 160-180 and is nicer generally speaking and much closer in demeanor to game Sonic. It was a gradual change I think. Sonic becomes very similar to his game counterpart after the reboot.
His demeanour is the exact same late preboot, he constantly sucks himself off and is obsessed with himself. He's also a jerk to others, especially Amy, he never changed that.
Reboot probably yeah, that was a change but a change by literal reboot.
Well I don't agree. But I think this was an intention decision by Ian since he reportedly agreed on his podcast that preboot Sonic was a jerk and hard for him to write. I actually like preboot Sonic a lot. So it would make sense that he would eventually try to write him more like his game counterpart, through character development. Can you give examples of Sonic being a jerk during after the middle part of the Mecha Sally arc, because I can't remmeber any in particular.
Can you give any examples of Sonic losing or being humiliated for being such a vain butthole? He got showered with rewards and praise at every single junction for being vain and self-centred. Mecha Sally was literally the very end of preboot, if he never experiences any loss or humiliation then he never learnt his lesson about anything, he just stopped being written like that by the writer at the very end of preboot. That's not an arc, and that's not a flaw, that's just a writing style.
He got beat up by Tails, and he lost the first fight against the Iron Dominion for being too hasty and got chewed out by Monkey Khan about it, yeah maybe there's more but I kind of forgot
He beat up Tails back, and didn't even struggle in their fight, he's too much of a Gary Stu self-insert to even lose a fight after he humiliated Tails. If he actually suffered then he would've lost and tasted some humble pie, but he doesn't lose because he's a writer's self-insert gary stu.
And Sonic literally soloed the Iron Dominion. The arc even started with a goddamn concert being held in his honor and him being given a medal.
>And Sonic literally soloed the Iron Dominion.
He absolutely did not. He constantly got pushed back by their overwhelming numbers. There was an entire Sonic Universe story arc hammering that point in where Monkey Khan and Sally have to dismantle their army through diplomatic means.
where Sonic does. That entire arc does nothing but constantly suck Sonic off. "The Bat Clan surrender because they're so intimidated by Sonic's incredible power." "The Conquering Storm clan surrender because Sonic's so amazing he humiliates their strongest warrior without even trying." "The Destructix come back and Fiona constantly sucks off how handsome and attractive Sonic is because Ian can't help but suck Sonic off some more".
classic mary sue shit. That arc even STARTS with Sonic having to rescue Sally and Tails after they got captured and tied up somehow offscreen.
That's just because Sonics a strong character you wouldnt call Superman a gary stu
Don't even dare compare your shitty hedgehog self-insert to Superman you fricking twat. Every single great Superman story he loses, and is driven low, and changes and grows and develops himself.
>Superman for all Seasons
>Must there be a Superman?
>Kingdom Come
>Exile
>Death of Superman
>All Star Superman
>Man of Steel
>Red Son
>For the Man who has Everything
Superman is a strong character because he has an actual character, and a layered personality, and loses, and is humiliated, and grows and overcomes himself.
Sonic's a 1-dimensional Gary Stu corporate mascot who only exists for the entire setting to suck him off while he shits on every other character to make himself look good.
He was less a corporate mascot in the Archie Comics and he is not a gary stu
He's a constant gary stu and shits on every character to make himself look good. Even collects a personal harem just by cucking every other character.
Archie Sonic is the worst written gary stu to ever disgrace the comic medium.
Also I haven't read any Superman comics but I'm reading Flash walley west run right now and started with 164 vol 2 because the art was too bad in Waid's run the coloring was so flat and ugly looking. I like stories focusing on speedsters and I wanted to see what the whole fuss around superhero comics was.
Ian would pop a blood vessel if Sonic were humbled the kind of ways Superman always is. This is what happens to Superman when Batman is just jealous that he grew old while Clark is immortal. Compare that to Sonic who shits on and cucks every other character every single story just to artificially make himself seem the coolest.
Oh so you didn't even read this one then.
Did you? Bruce beat up Superman to feel better about himself when he fakes his death, he has a whole internal monologue going "Yeah THAT'S how it feels to be old like me, Clark. Frick you." Superman was never in on it, he found out at the cemetery by accident.
Oh is the capeshit fan gonna cry that someone compared a face character to a face character?
…”face character”?
What’s with these weird terms archiegays invent to mental-gymnastics their way into pretending Sonic is deep and not just a shit shallow gary stu powerfantasy?
We know, Fartchiebro.
the actual delusion it takes for a sonic archiegay to think their cuckshit fanfic is comparable to an icon like Superman
>The Bat Clan surrender because they're so intimidated by Sonic's incredible power."
That never happens. Khan convinces them to abandon the Dominion so they can become free bandits.
>"The Conquering Storm clan surrender because Sonic's so amazing he humiliates their strongest warrior without even trying."
Sonic beats the simp lynx but that’s not why they surrender. Conquering Storm finds a win-win scenario duel. Also LMAO at Lightning Lynx being their strongest warrior.
>"The Destructix come back and Fiona constantly sucks off how handsome and attractive Sonic is because Ian can't help but suck Sonic off some more"
I don’t remember her doing that. I do remember her calling Tails handsome though, which you’ll probably not accept for some reason.
>That never happens
Kys, the shit comic can't take a single issue break from sucking off the gary stu
>Sonic beats the simp lynx but that’s not why they surrender
They surrender because they wanted to decide by duel and Sonic onesidedly beat him up.
And Lightning factually was named as their greatest champion, he's considered weak by sonic self-inserters because Sonic the shitty Gary Stu wasn't allowed to even struggle in their fight so the comic could suck him off again
>I don’t remember her doing that
Then you're a cherrypicking moron because she DOES do that, because Ian can't stop sucking off Sonic every minute of the day
>I do remember her calling Tails handsome though
And she DOES NOT do this, so no I don't accept you having to LITERALLY MAKE SHIT UP to pretend your 1-dimensional gary stu archie sonic isn't a homosexual power fantasy for self-inserting manbabies
Where do the bats surrender to Sonic because he beat them singlehandedly? Post the page schizo.
Conquering Storm uses the duel as an excuse to take over Iron Queen’s lands while she’s away.
>And she DOES NOT do this
Okay not exactly but I also don’t let Archie Sonic live rent free in my head 24/7. She still flirts with him though.
>Conquering Storm uses the duel as an excuse to take over Iron Queen’s lands while she’s away
MORE Shit you made up. She never once says this, she wanted a duel and Sonic beat their champion easily to win them over because he's a gary stu. And the bats only bothered to talk after asking Sonic to fight the Destructix because they're so scawwed of him (while shitting on Tails because only Sonic must be sucked off 24/7)
Conquering Storm uses the duel as a duel
and that's not flirting. Calling Sonic handsome and writing a goddamn poem telling the reader how amazing Sonic is while Sonic beats up the bad guys, is flirting. It's also being a homosexual 1-dimensional Gary Stu with a harem, who never has any humility and never suffers any comeuppance for shitting on other characters because he's a spoiled brat.
She’s giving Tails frick me eyes and saying his wiener is big.
that's some projection if I've ever seen it. She wants their team to side with her and calls him 'big man'. That's not a flirt.
If you really gotta jump through all these hoops to pretend Sonic's not a shit powerfantasy gary stu, then you really gotta face facts that he really is a shit gary stu.
Because I can't post an example where she DOESN'T say something. Monkey dude says he'll let her keep her castle after he takes charge (nothing about taking over from Iron Queen, Eggman takes over and Iron Queen stayed in charge with a fake snively). She says she doesn't care and wants a duel. Sonic the gary stu easily beats up Lightning.
Dude I think youre exaggerating things for fun. Maybe you do believe that stuff, but nobody being serious says gary stu that often. You're doing it for fun.
It's a discussion about that term is it not? You made up shit that never happened to say Sonic isn't a gary stu, I countered with actual things that happened that show him written as a gary stu.
Conquering Storm gets recruited by Eggman after Eggman takes over
Iron Queen is imprisoned and Conquering Storm takes over her lands.
Even when she is freed she takes over the branch of the United Nations Egg legion.
So then why haven't you posted the pages where this all takes place?
why can't Ian get sonic's tiny dick out his mouth? Like holy shit we get it you self-insert as him, you don't gotta make every single issue a parade for him.
Yeeeeaaah, that's not flirting. Ian would have an aneurysm if Tails had someone flirt with him without Sonic stealing them.
Tails went full 'Nam veteran in that panel.
except that in archie the only accomplishment he has to his name is becoming johnny bravo once.
Okay but he literally saved the entire multiverse, he's a bigger hero than Sonic by a longshot who's only saved a Star System during the Xorda attack
Okay but noone cares what fricking "verse" was involved when a 10-year plotline is wasted and thrown out and forgotten on the most moronic unserious possible shit.
The Iron Dominion could be such a cool alternate villain faction if they were brought over into the games. No need to directly invoke Eggman or ancient aliens. Hell you could probably fold the more charismatic members of the Zetis into the faction to give the Lost Hex more importance to the setting. Or maybe the Sol Dimension. Something that makes use of the one and done concepts so that they can be meaningfully invoked past Frontiers' style of having Sonic randomly be like, "I'm sure Tangle would enjoy this place!"
I'd have loved it if Sonic actually got beaten up by Tails, but Sonic held the advantage most of that fight. You can't exactly call that being humbled. Sonic never gets humbled at all, he's just constantly sucked-off and gets away with everything without a single moment of humility.
>Sonic never gets humbled at all, he's just constantly sucked-off and gets away with everything without a single moment of humility.
So...Sonic's a Mary Sue.
I think I now have my final perspective: Sonic is not a gary stu and also developed as a person throughout the comic
--in spite of facts and reality, where Sonic did not develop at all and didn't suffer at all, because he's a Gary Stu and a shit character
Nicer how? Nothing about him changed, and he didn't make up for anything, just because Tails forgave him for House of Cards doesn't mean Sonic's made up for it or changed. Someone being forced to forgive you isn't an arc.
He's like the worst Gary Stu i have ever seen in a comic. Even down to the point of shitting on every other character to make him look good
>He's like the worst Gary Stu i have ever seen in a comic. Even down to the point of shitting on every other character to make him look good
Then it's obvious what the answer.
Sonic sucks as a comic book character. Since him being a Gary Stu is kind of the point of Sonic.
Its obvious he should stick to those webtoons SEGA makes for him or something his fans could read, like coloring books
Ian ruined archie worse than Penders ever managed
You can bring a character from one continuity and place them into another, who would you pick and which show/game/comic? I think Blaze not being in Prime is still insane, Longclaw being Sonic mum In the games would be neat and Black Doom in Sonic X woulda been entertainingly over the top
Captain Plunder and his crew from Fleetway become Blaze's enemies in her dimension.
Ian never truly cared about Sonic. Only Sally and the Freedom Fighters. He clearly doesn't enjoy writing pure game content.
Archie Sonic is on the same level as the big 3 shonen battle mangas from the 2000s from 160 onwards imo
imo you need to get your brain scanned for any large caterpillars that have eaten away most your frontal cortex
Why are you saying the mangas is better or worse than 160 afterwards archies
They’re all WAAAAYY better than Ian’s archie, because none of them had:
Multiple Years-long arcs back to back where everyone just does nothing
Boring Politicsshit arcs
cuckshit
Throwing away half the entire character list just because you aren’t interested in them
Evaporated character arcs
Petty childish feuds and mind-numbing retcons over “canon”
Shitting on the original writers’ works out of spite
Doing fricking nothing with most of the cast so you can repeat the same shit with the same 2 characters ad infinitum
Etcetera
I don't know know if Ian is to blame personally and I don't really care if mandates are to blame for the state of IDW or not. Scrapnik Island and the Nack mini feel like fun adventures even a kid could appreciate. So why is the main comic so anti-fun? Why is a popular character like Shadow made into such a joke when even Prime which is 50% slapstick takes him seriously? Why is the whole comic a weird extended debriefing of the damage Forces did to the series? I can't imagine Sonic Team told them to shut on Shadow. I can't imagine they told IDW to keep prioritizing through promotion of a seven year old game.
I don't even mind the OCs, but why does it feel like we speedran characters like Whisper and Surge just do we could get to them being vulnerable emotional messes? Does Sega tell them to do that? I doubt it.
I think that it may sadly be Ian and Evan's faults that the comic is that way. The reason why it stays on a post forces backdrop is because they want the series to be archie/satam lite and can't fully move on from that. I love Archie but they really need to let the comic end up being its own thing. They're kneecapping the potential of stories the comic has to tell. I really hope they bring in Barnes and let him be a main writer. I guess its like sometimes how some writers's second run on comics aren't of the same caliber as their first. Something's definitely up. I think if possible they should make an unspecified amount of time pass and turn the setting into post frontiers. Maybe give the restoration less focus and focus more on Sonic and game characters adventures.
I think they should throw in a wider Rogues Gallery while they are at it and maybe a cool scalie heroine, also maybe try letting characters have solo arcs or stories like Sonic Universe did as that was lot of fun
I don't think they want to time skip past Frontiers because it looked like Ian was setting up (pointless) character drama for all of Sonic's pals. But it looks like Dream Team didn't give a frick and ignored that Amy, Tails and Knuckles were supposed to go on college kid "self discovery" vacations. I think that's the right move. But it was Ian's writing so I guessing he was planning something.
Maybe he could possibly write those journeys into IDW if he wanted to
I assume that is his intent.
These would be fine IF they were quarterlies and self-contained. Frontiers has been out since 2022. After getting approval in 2023, we should have seen the first four-issue side story of Amy, or Knuckles, or Tails having their journey of self-discovery. We didn’t.
Flynn keeps opening up threads thanks to his position, and they never go anywhere. Is it his fault? I don’t believe to the degree everyone is complaining. He worked with Penders. He was there when Sega closed its jaws on the comic. He should know more than anyone how anal-retentive Sega is now. If anything, my complaint is that Flynn (and Stanley) are too ambitious because they want things to go back to the way they were before. After all, the Metal Virus is a great example of this. It’s a holdover from an idea they had during the Archie run, and look how it ended so shoddily.
But we can never turn back.
I still don’t think Ian decided the plot or cutscenes of Frontiers.
Like, you think Ian wrote the plot that they’re all sad about how useless they are…but didn’t write them actually contributing with fricking anything in the cutscenes? He just assumed it’s good enough they call themselves shit and cheerlead Sonic and promise to do some vague thint different in the future? Bullshit.
It was always just Sega making Sonic’s shitty friends go “awww I’m so weak and pathetic, oh great and wise Sonikku please uplift us with your wisdom and inspire us to not be so worthless before you beat The End all by yourself”. Saying they’re gonna “improve” but doing nothing is because Sega want them to be “inspired” by Sonic’s homosexualness but not actually do anything in any game to steal the spotlight from Sonic.
Unless I am mistaken, Flynn bragged about doing all of the writing for Frontiers.
Writing, yes. I just don’t assume he decided what the plot of Frontiers was.
In media, writers merely write the story that the director tells them to write. Sega tell Ian it’s about Sonic inspiring the shitty friends to stand around and cheerlead for him yet again, but they don’t actually do anything to steal his spotlight.
>Unless I am mistaken,
You are.
https://www.ign.com/articles/sonic-frontiers-writer-ian-flynn-open-zone-dr-eggman-story-ign-first
>IGN: You’ve been intrinsically tied to the Sonic series for a long time now, whether through comics, TV, or games. What has it been like taking the reins of writing Sonic Frontiers’ story compared to everything else you’ve worked on for the Blue Blur?
>Flynn: It’s been a very different experience to be sure. With the other tie-in media, I’m the one to pitch the story, the characters, the themes, etc. With Sonic Frontiers, SEGA provided the story, backstory, plot beats, usable characters, and so on. So it was a very different approach to telling a Sonic story than what I’m used to.
>Like, you think Ian wrote the plot that they’re all sad about how useless they are…but didn’t write them actually contributing with fricking anything in the cutscenes?
I mean, that's what Metal Virus was like.
If you dont like Sonic's friends cheering for Sonic, than you're a fake ass fan.
NTA, and I don't mind Sonic being the guy who gets shit done. But literally writing a story where his friends have all agency taken away from them and are made totally helpless for most of the story is really taking things to a new level. It wasn't just a quick plot element to explain why Sonic has to fix things himself, the entire focus of each island is showing how inadequate each character feels and how they don't feel like they measure up. In fact if I didn't have such low expectations from the series I might think it was some kind of parody of their treatment in games like Forces.
All of that is a good thing.
Only because it makes sure Sage and Eggman the uncontested most interesting part of the story.
>Sega of Japan: “You will pay attention to OUR version of SatAM and you WILL like it”
It's trying to make an ongoing story while working within the constraints of the game stories, if instead we had a separate canon for the comics with less oversight and mandates and mini-series in the classic and modern continuity it would be better.
Of course it's also Evans's and Ian's fault for not managing to create an engaging story with things as is, even when they seemingly have almost complete freedom regarding their OCs.
Oh no Ian has gone over and over again that Shadow being written like Cell Saga Vegeta but worse was 100% SEGA required.
I think it says a lot about a writer if their fanbase's default reaction to criticism is blaming someone else. You can't control crazy people, but you do set the tone for your community.
Maybe instead of idolizing Ian we can recognize his faults and not everything is due to mandates. Either way, I think people who aren't fans of Ian should try being more respectful of the way they critique his work and also recognize that the #knowingsmiles aren't supposed to be taken so seriously and he's just kind of a teasing creator.
I think the way he behaves online builds a cult of personality that insulates (and isolates) him, makes fans prone to elevate his work, and radicalizes discourse. He's a flawed writer, but the way he handles social media is a way bigger issue than the quality of his work. Dude needs to cut that shit out. Just be real.
What a great example of fanatic behavior.
I don't understand how Ian has his fingers in so many pies that seem to have very different interpretations of things.
In Prime, Sonic literally says Shadow is his biggest rival, the two fight very evenly and Shadow ends up being a voice of reason in the narrative. In IDW he's an idiot who constantly gets knocked on his ass and his big moment is suggesting they execute a guy with brain damage, and regardless of this actually being a good idea or not the narrative puts him in the wrong.
IDW tries to make Amy into this no nonsense leader figure for the Resistance/Restoration and seems to go out of its way to remove her from any context that may relate her to her characterization from Adventure.
In Forces she's as love obsessed as you'd expect any sentimental teenage girl to be. It's just that she's moved on from being a Sonic fanatic and has moves on to approaching "love" like she's some idol spouting platitudes for her fans.
In IDW Rouge is some estranged orbiter who the know fans want to see, but have little use for.
Prime seems to be trying to change her into a main cast member. And I don't know if Ian touched it, but Dream Team seems to share that agenda.
The answer is he doesn't have creative control over most of these things.
Then why even put him on payroll for unrelated projects?
He didn't get to write for Prime. That's part of why he was so pissy about it, he got snubbed.
Regardless
>Why give someone a job without complete free reign over the product!?
That's a really dumb question.
>Why give someone a job without complete free reign over the product
With the current state of Sonic media, and considering the people currently writing for it, we either...
>Get a story with no real implications or stakes, completely policed by Sega and the Mandates
>Get a story tailor-made for Sonic Xitter (and similars) masses, no different to the craziest fanfic you have read
There are no in between, whatever the case... we lose.
>inb4: "but muh fanfic is better than mandates!" If only you knew bad things truly are, anon.
I'd be just fine with comics like Scrapnik, or that Rouge story in the first annual, or the Christmas special, or that comic Adam did on Twitter.
"NOOOOO IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT" is the refuge of mediocre writers. We've had people who work in an official capacity do better.
>Get a story with no real implications or stakes, completely policed by Sega and the Mandates
All I see when I read this is "I NEED more to be autistic about."
>no real implications or stakes, completely policed by Sega and the Mandates
>"I NEED more to be autistic about."
Then you must see that constantly, cause that is a the most consistent complaint I have seen in Cinemaphile about IDW so far.
>Sonic fans are autistic and don't value quality as much as pandering.
Yes.
What quality? The movies genuinely have the best character writing of recent Sonic content and they are still trashy Hollywood flicks.
>What quality?
That's my point, yes.
>The movies genuinely have the best character writing
I can't take any of you seriously.
How is he wrong? Tails is a nothing burger in the movies but Sonic is actually allowed to show negative emotion and react to stakes and movie Knuckles is finally giving the character some respect after years and years of the games decimating his IQ.
>after years and years of the games decimating his IQ
As much as I like Boom, they are some of the main responsible for enforcing the "Knuckles is a complete moron" meme.
Back to the games, are we a 100% sure this isn't just a Western side issue? Is he just as stupid in the Japanese versions?
>movie Knuckles is finally giving the character some respect after years and years of the games decimating his IQ
By turning him into a big doofus as the tv show proves.
To be fair I haven't seen anything in the TV show, but I'm worried he's going to be a doofus in the third movie since Sonic doesn't need two active rivals with Shadow around. I will be shocked if Knuckles doesn't Worf for Shadow.
You presumably saw the ending of the sequel so you already got how he is going to be most of the time going forward.
Are you... implying that without the mandates IDW Sonic would be pure pandering rather than quality?
I'm saying you're a bunch of morons who don't actually care about quality and cling to easy scapegoats. We could have good Sonic comics with things as they are now, but they wouldn't be what specific fans want to see so they fearmonger about nebulous "mandates." It's stupid.
The people currently running the comics are the main proprietors in fear mongering with mandates.
IDW seems to get pretty decent reception with anuals and spin-offs. People just don't like this Restoration stuff they have been doing since before the virus.
People seem to like a variety of things out of Sonic. The Tangle and Whisper spinoff. That segment where Eggman shows Starline his toys. The Scrapnik Island stuff. The Fang mini. They just don't care for the thing the main comic story has decided to doubled down on for these last few years. Even fans of the OCs aren't getting what they want.
Yeah, that's fair.
I'm talking about the broader problem where people insist regulations mean we can't get anything good. At most it just means the comic needs to embrace picaresque/episodic traits.
>We could have good Sonic comics with things as they are now
Interesting choice of words... are you implying we don't have good Sonic stories up to this point?
>nebulous "mandates."
You know what? I think mandates is such an ugly word. I would rather say directives or directions, which is a normal thing any writer working for an IP must deal with.
>are you implying we don't have good Sonic stories up to this point
I'm implying most issues of IDW haven't been great, but the problem is more in execution than content.
Ian and crew turning mandates into a baseless point of speculation by blaming them publicly one too many times is their own fault. Everyone brought into a larger IP deals with mandates. They usually shut up and deal and you'll only hear about the specifics years after employment has ended. Instead we got all this shit we didn't need to know about like Ian apparently being forced to make Shadow suck.
Imagine somethign not Sonic for a second, hard I know, then imagine any random mass of people genuinely liking what they saw not because it's a brand, a trend, a cult, or anything like that, it was just well put together and people had a blast and the people behind it are competent and care about their work
That's quality. Which Sonic lacks. He only has autistic people thinking up autistic things they THINK is good quality, but is very, very bad when you actually process through it.
He doesn't even seem to have any push as a creative consultant. He wouldn't need complete creative control just to nudge Shadow's depiction in a similar direction between current stories.
The problem is he's fighting other people. IDW is Ian doing what he thinks is right within the limitations provided. Prime is what other writers come up with.
He literally does not get the character and he fights things instead of trying to understand what others are doing.
>And I don't know if Ian touched it, but Dream Team seems to share that agenda.
He was told to do a second pass of the script.
Is Rouge going to get a push in the comics too?
He was just a "consultant" for Prime.
Prime would have been shit with or without Ian.
As someone that grew up when SatAM aired but has no emotional attachment to the FF the amount of obsession with them strikes me incredibly odd.
I just they’re neat. Even with all the flaws that got in the show and the comics, I still like them. Is that so bad?
You're entitled to your opinion. I just think that being so centered on a single 2 years span in a 30 year franchise to the point that you have guys saying they'll quit entirely unless that specific cast of characters (and let's be real it's character designs because the roles and personalities have been recycled) is kind of "lost causey"
>single 2 years span
The FFs lived on in the comics that lasted for 24 years including numerous fancontent. Don't try to brush that off as if it doesn't count.
Well yeah, people being weird to the point they’ll quit Sonic altogether if the FF or Archie stuff doesn’t come back is a rather much.
Other than that, most people, even people here, are willing to admit that a lot of this stuff was crap, and yet still like it. It’s not that deep.
As much as I love Archie stuff, it’s characters, and the FF, I don’t want them in the main storyline. They just wouldn’t work there. Or rather, those characters and concepts would have to be even more altered than what they had already been in the Reboot, which wipes away more of their identity.
They belong in fan projects and… if Sega ever allows it, a new alternate continuity that isn’t tied to the games. That’s where that stuff can shine the most.
>As much as I love Archie stuff, it’s characters, and the FF, I don’t want them in the main storyline. They just wouldn’t work there. Or rather, those characters and concepts would have to be even more altered than what they had already been in the Reboot, which wipes away more of their identity.
I think there is a way that you can bring them into the games without altering their personalities & roles too much...it's just, it could only work for ONE game. And it couldn't be a traditional Sonic game either. It would have to be another kitchen sink approach like Frontiers or something different (I vote rpg).
After which, they will have to be drastically reformatted to fit the vibe of SEGA Sonic (which may piss off their fans) or just be shelved with Chip, Merlina & the rest of the one shots until the next mobile game needs bodies to fill in a roster (which WILL piss of their fans).
>They belong in fan projects
At this point, I'm more than ready for The Freedom Fighters to live on as expies in some Indie Sonic Clone down the line.
Hell, if you squint hard enough, Freedom Planet is kinda like Archie Sonic in some ways.
Too many Sonic Fan Devs are CanonNazis to care about SatAM, Archie, Boom or any divergence not tied to "canon"
>if Sega ever allows it, a new alternate continuity that isn’t tied to the games.
The only continuity that isn't allowed to be tied the games is the movies & that's because Paramount has a bigger dick than SEGA's. That continuity has trouble enough introducing the franchise's main female character, even I don't think we'll ever get that far where Sally will be prostituted off for quick nostalgia bucks.
>That continuity has trouble enough introducing the franchise's main female character
>trouble
More like REFUSING. Fowler doesn't even like Rouge and it seems to be the same with Amy. Sonic movies a dudecore.
The comic that used them and their setting went on for like, 26 years, man. Up until 2016-17, they had been a constant in the franchise.
Likewise. It helps that SatAM is incredibly, massively overrated.
>as someone who doesn't care about thing, I'm confused by people who do
What was the point of this post?
To spur discussion? IDK I just want to understand what about the FF is so goddamn vital that they're a cornerstone of the property to some people.
Sometimes it just seems like it's for coomer reasons but I wanna give anons the benefit of the doubt.
>To spur discussion?
By insulting people? Interesting angle.
Where do you think you are?
Yes but it's still a very insular part.
>it's still a very insular part.
To you but some people grew up with the comcis as their main source of Sonic content. You don't have to give a shit but people who do have reasons for doing so.
Two things:
1) They're considered a cornerstone of the Archie comics because they were part of the Archie comics for its entire run, including predating SatAM.
2) I emphasize again that they predated SatAM, because they weren't "the SatAM characters." They were cornerstones of the entire American Sonic brand identity throughout the 90s until everything got overhauled with Adventure. They were part of the cartoon, comics, books, stage shows, theme park attractions, etc. Outside of the games, it was always "Sonic and the Freedom Fighters."
So yeah they're 90s characters that only continued in the Archie comics, but relative to the entire rest of the Sonic franchise that's a frick-ton. They lasted longer than most game characters. They lasted longer than the entire Boom sub-franchise, and that had official Sega backing!
>2) I emphasize again that they predated SatAM, because they weren't "the SatAM characters." They were cornerstones of the entire American Sonic brand identity throughout the 90s until everything got overhauled with Adventure. They were part of the cartoon, comics, books, stage shows, theme park attractions, etc. Outside of the games, it was always "Sonic and the Freedom Fighters."
As someone that was there firsthand? They went from the cartoon to the archie comics. The games never really had them outside of one easter egg in a bonus level, the tie in books that weren't the archie comics were all over the place, and they weren't even in the other two cartoons that aired when I was a kid. AoStH was all Sonic and Tails, Sonic Underground was Sonic and his pallete swap siblings. So no, it really wasn't *always* "Sonic and the Freedom Fighters". It mostly *wasn't* from my experience.
Never heard of the stage shows or theme park attractions either and I considered myself pretty deep into this. Is that non US stuff?
>They were cornerstones of the entire American Sonic brand identity throughout the 90s until everything got overhauled with Adventure.
No they weren't. Only Sally at least. The US manuals made no reference to the Freedom Fighters outside of Sally being in the Sonic CD manual once in replacement of Amy.
May I post humanized Surge?
>
>Slashy is here
As if I didn't need anymore evidence of /sthg/ being the parasite leeching off threads here and of Cinemaphile and opening gates for their insects to shit over everything.
You just found out?
This place hates IDW and Flynn like /sthg/.
What
And like /sthg/ you project on everyone here
It is not projection it is a consistent pattern.
If you get offended by reality, that is your problem
>it is a consistent pattern
Yeah, you consistently project.
Who's slashy?
Do it
Yes
It’s going to be the other way around. She’ll force you to give her your seed over and over again, and electrocute you every time she orgasms. And it sounds pretty damn hot
Sonic, Kit, whichever one of you wrote this, get back to work.
>calls Archie cuck trash
Yep, confirmed for a butthurt Tailsgay who's mad about the Fiona arc.
The first chunk of Archie Sonic that's essentially a weird compromise between the setting and characters of SATAM and the humor and internal logic of AOSTH is the best part of any officially published Sonic comic.
He's not wrong.
Bursting your bubble, sorry. Other than the movie incarnation which has explicit toes, Sonic characters have weird blob feet.
I want this to happen to me. Even if I die, at least I will be happy
Sonic should be written like The Sopranos.
So which Sonic character gets an intervention that ends with them getting their shit beaten?
I will still cherish the memories I have for his work on Archie Sonic and reccomend more people to read his work there regardless of his reputation as a writer. I think that every Sonic fan should at least try to read a few issues of it and if they like it continue until the end. I also accept that people can have different perspectives on the quality of his work and respect differing opinions. Its obviously not for everyone. I started this thread with the thought that something's up and wanted to see what everyone's perspective on it is. I am not also likely to shift my opinion on the matter that Ian's writing on Archie Sonic was decent, even good at times, and I think somehow his early work was better than his new stuff.
I'll give my two cents:
>haven't read all of archie sonic but i did read some of it and ALL of Universe
>reading all of IDW since day one
>saw all the cartoons
>saw all movies
>played most games, but know the plot of them all
Conclusions:
>Sonic was better when it had actual stakes and drama
>gritty stories work best, but they need to stick to them and take them seriously, like in SATAM and Archie and early IDW and SA1 & 2
>Forces had potential, so does current IDW if they made/make Eggman more competent and makes other villains more dangerous
>the landscape too can be better, we ued to have big cities, interesting natural scenery and magical places, now most spots are very cartoony and simple
Now, for character related changes they should use
>Designs used to have that cool reflection effect and were very rubbery in their faces, gave them sturdy yet expressive looks
>fights were more violent or appeared more violent
>Make characters have independent goals and independent struggles with their own villains and such
>Have characters on both sides struggle for real, not just petty shit
>Humans dont need to return, but something similar to GUN served a cool function
>Aliens arent necessary, but are a cool excuse to add a new faction that shakes things up, and have worked many times
>Silver is a pot of gold, use him, Blaze too, give their worlds stories and make their worlds look impressive
If they dont change soon, then the plot will just simmer down to boring talk every 3 issues with some fighting in between.
fiona is the biggest non-character ever before she turns evil, why do people even care so much
because they used that non-character to jack Sonic the shitty gary stu off yet again, at everyone other characters' expense
ngl i refuse to believe someone is this animated over archie sonic, there's no way a mediocre comic is the highlight of your existence
hardly a highlight, more like a shitstain
that's just a highlight in inverse
Guy has been mad at this comic for so many years, goes into threads for it to scream at people at how assblasted he is at a blue hedgehog, it is so pathetic and not even annoying or frustarting anymore, just sad
>only one person in the world doesn't like my cuckshit comic
Never change, archiegays, never change.
you sure love making it the one thing in your life of any significance with how many days and threads you seethe at a comic book, you have let this take your life over more then anyone who else who could hate or love the book, it is pathetic, even if you spent all this energy on something I personally disliked it’d still be utterly pathetic
because I said archie's cuckshit stories are bad? That's not "letting it take over your life", that's just calling it like it is.
Holy shit get a life Ian Defence Force homosexual if criticism roils you over that much. Ian's archie run was AWFUL.
It doesn't make me seethe or feel bad I just felt the need to defend what I like. There's nothing morally wrong about liking something and wanting to defend it.
There is about being a simp. People calling your trash cuck comic a trash cuck comic is not an act of lunacy, it's you being a fricking abby because someone called your pigslop the pigslop that it IS.
>it's you being a fricking abby because someone called your pigslop the pigslop that it IS.
...what?
First time encountering him huh? Don’t worry he’s always this deranged about Ian, Sonic, Archie and people who dare not be as hateful of it as him, was a jannie for a while to so lmao
>anyone who doesn't dicksuck Ian's godawful cuckshit story is deranged
So this is the mind of an Archiegay...
They're all like that. I call them the Ian Defence Force
please stop defending shit comics like a gay. Trash is Trash, Bendis-tier garbage like Ian isn't magically rendered good just because you're a tasteless idiot, accept it and move on.
It's one of my favorite series I can handle it being criticized say what you want about it go ahead I don't care because I have my opinion and you have yours. I'm not going to let myself get angry over something so small.
Me personally, I can't suspend my disbelief with this guy because it really feels like a dude trying to act like a caricature of what he "thinks" someone who hates (Archie) Sonic acts like, because what DOES he like? I'm not gonna act like Sonic doesn't veer close to Mary Sue (Gary Stu?) territory myself, but in that case, why's he even here?
>the games
Doubt it, I've never actually seen him talk about any of the games to my knowledge.
>the comics
Already clearly hates that shit.
>the shows
Same deal as the games.
>the side cast
Mega kek, genuinely the only decently well-written character (Sonic himself included) was Shadow -specifically- in SA2B, maybe Gamma and Emerl, but otherwise every character is clearly just a bog-standard archetype, which isn't even necessarily bad in a franchise that clearly focuses more on gameplay mechanics (for better or for worse), but it means there's literally no point trying to go this angle.
So at the end of the day, I'm just left perplexed at yet another one of Cinemaphile's endless horde of schizos.
Sonic was never good in anything.
I think he was perfectly fine as a silent blue hedgehog with a "kewl" attitude.
If a person goes far enough they eventually become a parody of themselves.
This is one such case.
Never underestimate the power of autism.
I think my second time reading through its hinted plenty of times of her turn to evil before it happened. I don't think it was so bad although I can understand how it gets under some people's skin
Ian Flynn was never good.
I liked his writing before.
Good for you, I'm glad you liked eating steaming piles of shit.
Here's his writing "before".
You've posted this same image so many times its exhausting to explain it to you again and again that its not comparable to what he was doing in IDW. This is not some own you think it is.
Cope harder.
That's not a response. Also Archie Sonic is a hero unlike Game Sonic the adventurer so giving plodding speeches about his heroism makes sense here. He has a hero complex and believes himself to be the "Hero of Mobius" and is kind of an egomaniac so it makes sense that he is acting like this in this situation.
I really think this encounter rattled Scourge too. Cause he tried to break Sonic into thinking that they weren't so different One Bad Day style and got it flipped back on him. I doubt he would ever become a good guy, but he would probably strike out and do his own thing instead of falling back into just being the Evil Sonic.
He's kind of trying to make a false equivalence here and I'm trying to set things straight.
Oh I wasn't really responding to the arguments, I just remembered the scene and liking how it played out. Sucks that Scourge just got turned into another token for Penders to liscence out these days and we never did get payoffs from how Scourge could have developed further.
SOVL
Cringe shit.
Based kino.
There's nothing wrong with this page.
I think he's saying Sonic is kind of being preachy here. But I think it makes sense in this context rather than divorcing it entirely from it.
Imagine being such a tasteless archie manbaby you think this pretentious cringe shit is a good sonic comic. Read a real goddamn book for once, please.
But i read plenty of books and comic books already
Nah if this dogshit of "Sonic the Hedgehog makes a speech about how inspirational he is tot eh world" is your standard of good then you desperately need to read something that isn't archieshit.
Read From Hell if you want an actually good book.
>Read le deep artsy fartsy graphic novel
No.
>Adult Sonic manbaby only consooms babyshit goyslop like fartchie
Well I knew it was true of Archiegays but at least you had the courage to admit it.
No wonder you consider pretentious gradeschool sonicshit of blue mickey mouse giving a gradeschool lecture while noone else speaks or counterpoints him to be "deep" or "impactful", when you've never read anything adult in your life. No wonder you defend bottom-of-the-barrel cuckold SHIT like archie sonic.
It's a Sonic comic, Black. And i'm judging it as such.
>posts pretentious manbaby cringe scene from a pretentious manbaby cringe game
Maybe just stop mindlessly consooming pretentious Sonicshit and you'll grow some better taste. Not everyone wants to hear your Mickey Mouse self-insert lecture them and "inspire" them with his elementary school grade moralising.
>Mickey mouse gay is back
>Maybe just stop mindlessly consooming pretentious comicshit and you'll grow some better taste. Not everyone wants to hear your Mickey Mouse self-inserts lecture them and "inspire" them with his elementary school grade moralising.
Yes.
Nah. Bite me.
The ironic thing about your "comeback" is Sonic is the only pretentious puddle-deep Mickey Mouse lecturer in all fiction. Every other comic has enough brains to write an actual story and not just some homosexual gary stu who is also a cartoon animal sniffing his own farts. Even Family Guy is self aware about how cringe Brian is. That's how cringe Sonic is.
Based bait.
I have nothing else to say, this is beyond normal levels of based and is unbounded in it's basedness.
Cuthulumythos high tiers shudder at this statment.
No it's not bait, Sonic is factually the only mickey mouse cerealbox-cartoon that's simultaneously so pretentious. No other comic has their homosexual corporate mascot try to lecture people with their puddle-deep self-fellatio.
Truly Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth and even the Supreme Archtype pale in comparison to Mickey Mouse poster.
Stand proud.
Well that was kind of not what I was expecting. I should have expected a divisive response. It was only natural.
Sonic is a Gary Stu in game canon.
Also the moments of heavy romance drama and political stuff was easily the worst part of Ian's run (still better than what came before). Sonic Universe was the peak of his writing, in part because it lacked any of that nonsense
Game Sonic is not a gary stu he is a paragon that everyone looks up to
> he is a paragon that everyone looks up to
So…a Gary Stu, AND ALSO pretentious? Lol
nta
But mechanically, well functionally speaking, he's a flat character who acts the the vehicle for change in other peoples stories. Even a far as Sonic 2 the main narrarive crux could be argued to be Tails' arc, and in Sonic 3/&k, although an antagonist the game character and plot wise is more about knuckles.
SA 2 is more about Shadow's story, Heroes is more about Metal Sonic's character, the games in the 2000s don't really have much story.
I mean you can hate Sonic all you like, but he's not exactly a well rounded and deep character that under goes a lot of development or learns from others. He's also not what I would call pretentious, except for when Ian is writing him, he kinda just does what he does 'cause he like playing the hero.
Can't wait to see him or Evan frick up the Scrapniks by immediately killing them off/turning them evil because they're afraid of upsetting the status quo as they're spineles cowards
*spineless
They will never appear again.
I doubt this. The end of the miniseries teases their return and they were explicitly referenced in the main series. There wasn't a single miniseries that wasn't folowed up in the mainline book, so clearly they're setting something up.
Elaborate. I agreed that there were parts that could've been done better, but I like the potential it has to actually affect things. This is the first time a game-originating character got any meaningful development in a comic since... eell, pre-boot Archie, and it's canon this time, to boot.
Anyone else think this mini series was lame?
Definitely.
>Mecha Sonic says the heckin reference line after some goofy toy robots knock over his pc and he chases them a little
So lame.
So when Ian makes multiple references in arc you either clap or brush it off, but when this one writer makes one reference in an arc, you call it lame
on the contrary, both are cringe as frick
I thought it was pretty good. I didn't notice a huge quality gap between it and mainline IDW like other people though.
I shouldn't get defensive over something like this. I can accept other series writers being critiqued and being taken apart while still liking it. Why is this series different and why do I think like this?
Because you’re an autistic moronic homosexual who should leave for /r/eddit
Because people get hyper aggressive over it or feel adamant to act like you are wrong and vile for your interests? My advice is just either agree to disagree and or just maybe find other places to talk about it really suppose
people hated IDW because instead of actually addressing Surge's point Sonic was being used to jerk off self-righteously over how "heroic" he was talking down to her about seemingly unrelated shit.
It's the same preachiness and self-righteous fart-sniffing about Sonic's "deep heckin philosophy" that Ian has always done
I'd argue it makes a lot more sense in Archie if you take into consideration Sonic's Hero Complex and being a different all around character than game Sonic. He wasn't talking about a philosophy of forgiving others or freedom here, he was just delivering Scourge a verbal beatdown and putting him down for being a jerk. He believes he is THE hero of Mobius and that he's a really great guy, so this Sonic makes sense making speeches like that. I also like to think that he wasn't completely being shown to be in the right here.
>I also like to think that he wasn't completely being shown to be in the right here
He was, though. Not a single thing that entire arc says anything else at all criticising Sonic or humbling him, it's just all wanking over how amazing a speshul snowflake that Sonic is.
I don't know if that's the case but I don't remember any real wanking of Sonic during that arc. I just remember the Freedom Fighters and Suppression Squad fighting a bunch and Scourge saying he conquered his world a bunch.
that arc literally started with the entire FF + Amy going "we can't possibly fight any of these guys, our only plan is to call Sonic back from the Chaotix and beg him to save us!"
the exact same with the suppression squad, who are all so weak and pathetic and scared of Scourge their only plan is to go to the FF...and ask them to beg SONIC to save them.
The entire arc is just endless wank of Ian's 1-dimensional gary stu self-insert.
The whole addressing Sonic not killing Eggman plot line was stupid anyways, maybe in a work not taking place in the game's canon where they could kill him off it would be fine. But it really is overly pretentious and makes Sonic look likes a dick.
Evan seems to have realized that eventually as well as Surge doesn't bring it up when she talks to Sonic during their second fight or when she joins the restoration.
It also doesn't feel true to game Sonic as I never got the feeling he had any philosophical reasons for what he does, he's mostly in it for the fun.
It worked with Starline as that plotline showed Eggman holding back, not Sonic, and there was actual resolution in the form of the trouble maker who tried to escalate things getting killed.
Well that's why I think that the equivalent scene doesn't really work that well in IDW. I'm not that put off by it, but I can understand why people don't really like that scene that much. But I think that it was mostly an IDW problem.
Yeah, by how completely it was dropped, I get the feeling Ian's pitch for the trio didn't include him explicitly mentioning he had a scene like that planned.
Evan clearly thinks that going for that angle with Surge and Sonic is bad.
Of course other than that, all Surge and Kit have is redemption bait, which isn't bad in of itself. While game Sonic isn't a redemption gay like IDW Sonic is, he gave Shadow and Metal a second chance after beating both of them up, and Surge has circumstances just about as tragic as the both of them as well as being significantly less of a threat.
But that's clearly not what Ian was planning for.
There's also the issue of Kit, just kind of being there, he's an accessory to Surge and not much else
My favorite thread was the one where he legitimately had a porngay meltie because someone rightfully accused him of not actually liking Tails
Ian won.
Speaking of Ian winning... I wonder how Penders felt the moment he learned Ian, his archenemy, was going to write a Sonic game.
I doubt he cares about the video games. Remember he had to be dragged by the hair to play Sonic Adventure in order to properly integrate it into his echidna lore.
He said himself he sees Sonic more as a comic character than a game character.
Penders is known liar. For all we know, he could have been biting his fist while saying "why was I born!".
I should stop sharing the things I love with this website. It bites me back whenever it happens. Also twitter, not a fan of that site either.
Archie Sonic is as good as the big three shonen manga from the 2000s. Change my mind. Oh wait you can't.
Good to know you don't think like an adult, but a petulant little (man)child who disavows facts for his own butthurt fee-fees.
How do you think about the big three then compared to this comic
much better and had competent writing if you compare it to the dogshit and cuckshit that was archieshit.
>dogshit and cuckshit
I hate to tell you this...
But Wan Piss literally has rape and cuckoldry.
Impressive. It appears Wan Piss and Ian's Archieshit are both shit-tier garbage and the worst of the worst.
Sonic was never good.
Sonic was always shit.
Reminder that Archie sonic wienersuckers are literally all manchildren in their 40s who never could grow up because of their autism and refusal to read a quality book instead of self-insert sonicshit like archie.
They admit it in their gay circlejerk general right here:
https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/141986019/#141987688
In. Their. 40s. That's you if you never consoom anything but Archieshit.
lmao. Imagine being in your 40s and still needing to self-insert as Sonic the Hedgehog in the most pathetic embarassing Gary Stu fanfic to ever be published. I'd be ashamed but I don't think they can even feel shame.
>One person in a thread with over 600 posts says they're 40, so that must mean all of them are!
Are you moronic or something? lol
other anons also tell them they're old manchildren like him. And their homosexual lgbt circlejerk general never has more than 50 IPs, despite multiple of them using VPN. I know, archiegays are literally that pathetic.
"Other anons" meaning just one other dude
2/52
Hey how old are you since you are also someone obsessed over Archie/Sonic even if it's how much it makes you poop your pants in rage?
Archie Sonic was always crap.
The lack of self awareness is hilarious.
Totally mindbroken.
I have more selfawarness in a single atom of my body than you do in a mote of existence.
Now get your mickey mouse shit off of this fricking board you cuck.
Based chad
shit-eating archiegay
Ok janny
Link me Sonic x Sally fanfics.
https://archiveofourown org/works/search?work_search%5Bquery%5D=sonally
I am a cuck you are a cuck everyone is a cuck here
Maybe the real cucks were the friends we made along the way
/sthg/ trannies lost
this thread was a total failure on multiple fronts. maybe the skeptics and dislikers are vocal minority, or perhaps a majority. i'm fine with them existing. but i guess maybe i can just keep understanding things my way and remember this comic who had impacts on so many peoples lives. some people hate it. fair. some people like it. also fair. but its undeniably had an impact that spans many generations, and sometimes to clicks with some and doesn't with others.
It was dogshit and massively insulting to the beloved game IPs. Imagine defending a Sonic comic that turns Tails and Amy into cucks, Charmy into a braindamage victim and the entire setting into a bad joke.
It's not fair at all liking it, it was DOGSHIT and if you like it then YOU EAT SHIT like a SHITEATING FRICKING PIG.
>massively insulting to the beloved game IPs.
And the endless amounts of shitty games didn't? The cuck shit happened right around the time of Shadow, 06 and Secret Rings
those were shit too.
Except unlike archiegays, gamegays don't praise shit like 06 and Secret Rings like shit-eating morons. Only archiegays love eating shit.
/sthg/ trannies do
Unironically, I do wonder if /sthg/ even plays the games.
>gamegays don't praise shit like 06 and Secret Rings like shit-eating morons.
apologism over those have been going on for years
>unlike archiegays
Even the biggest Archiegays recommend that new readers should skip over large portions of the book, past all the Echidnashit, past all the cuckshit, etc.
The shit quality during the 2000s and early-on in Flynn's run is well understood and sees very few defenders, outside of a couple miscellaneous stories from that time
Return to Angel Island was one of my favorites
It's just a samegayging schizo
>everyone who doesn't like my cuckshit comic is the same person
Never change, archiegays, never change.
sonic is a leftist freedom fighter that resist the control of a totalitarian polluter that's turning people and animals in to mindless robot slaves. it's a story about freedom when uncle chuck overrides his own programming to retain his autonomy. it's a symbolic story about civilization, the art of which like the mural in hidden palace zone reminiscent of the murals in the beginning of the nausicaa movie makes it obvious. it's a parable warning against unregulated capitalist industrialism destroying nature.
in the instruction book for the first sonic sega game, it literally says save the animals. any sonic story that doesn't "get" these things WILL SUCK. EVERY TIME.
Daily reminder he's a janny
Any apologism toward any Sonic Shit Media is usually tied to said shit featuring/implying a specific ship the apologist like.
Is Mickey more mature than Sonic since Epic Mickey and runaway brain exists?