>It's a "villain has been treated like shit all his life for no reason and when he decides to get what he's owed he's suddenly the worst of the worst " trope
How am I supposed to support the """heroes""" in this case?
>It's a "villain has been treated like shit all his life for no reason and when he decides to get what he's owed he's suddenly ...
Much like yourself, OP, both of these characters were humongous gigahomosexuals (especially Scar) that threw a b***hfit tantrum and decided to kill people the moment things didn't go their way. You see so much of yourself in them that you can't comprehend that they're actually accountable for their own terrible actions.
Scar was literally named a slur just because his parents thought he was ugly or some shit
Scar had the best position possible and threw it away. Royalty, but with no worry of responsibility. He could have spent his days doing nothing but kicking back, eating and fricking. But he had to let ego get in the way.
This. Kion is in exactly the same position as Scar, but spends his life being a hero adored by the commoners and later marries a foreign queen. Scar literally ATE those below him and still whined about his life.
Contrariness is not necessarily a sign of intelligence.
Been seeing a bunch of youtubers trying to make Scar and Tai Lung into dindu nuffins and make excuses for them lately, the hell is up with that.
This is going to piss me off if this is the case. Tai Lung is one of my favorite villains and I will never forgive the public if they're defanging him like this
Basically it's putting all the blame on Ogway and Sifu like his own decisions doesn't matter, they made him a monster and he was right to kill and rampage, the usual making a ton of excuses for the villain I want to frick/ is just like me garbage.
>Shifu
Gaslight him since birth, hyped the title up like he was destined to have it
>Oogway
Literally some dementia ridden old tard that made no difference throughout the movie at all. It's a mystery why anyone would bother to ask him for advice.
Tai Lung was done dirty and deserved better.
>gaslight
come on man you have to know that isn't what that word means. Regardless of how much his dad gassed him up, lashing out and rampaging through the village was an objectively unjustifiable option. He was entitled to some anger towards Shifu or Oogway but he lost any sympathy the minute he lashed out at random strangers. It's basically like a kid whose parents made him study 4 hours a day not getting into Harvard and shooting his school up for it.
Tai Lung was groomed by Shi Fu into believing that he was the dragon warrior. Yes, he should have let it go when Oogway said otherwise, but a lifetime of being told you were by your master is really hard to shake.
And Shifu was the only one who deserved the blame and anger from Tai not everyone else. That's why the movie also made it a point to show that Shifu had to acknowledge his faults and poor ability as a master and why he ultimately apologizes to Tai
Yes. And this kinda thing and its variations hav3 often been used as a test of character in fiction, where most facing this situation realize that. Instead Tai Lung failed the test, and didn't even take a moment to even reflect on why in his rage. But the real problem i have with videos is like this is that creator always take the subject's agency away to project their own views on them to the point they don't even resemble the character anymore.
I've said it before in a similar thread to this one, but I need to say it again.
Shifu takes a significant portion of blame for basically projecting his own ambitions nonstop into Tai Lung, but he recognizes that he was responsible for Tai Lung's obsession for the dragon scroll, learns from his mistakes with how he trains the Furious Five, and even apologizes to Tai Lung for what he put into his head during that climactic fight. Oogway is old as frick, but he was one of the wisest masters of kung fu in the setting and literally achieved nirvana, he didn't have dementia and did absolutely nothing wrong, especially when he judged Tai Lung unfit for the title of Dragon Warrior.
Tai Lung's singleminded obsession with the dragon scroll became his one and only goal in life. Instead of practicing martial arts for the sake of self improvement and discipline (Kung Fu literally means hard work), he only did it for the scroll to become the BEST of the best, the uncontestable and undeniable, a living LEGEND. His already extremely impressive skills were never going to be enough, he wanted the infinite power and knowledge that the Dragon Scroll was said to have, and Oogway saw through his ambitions and denied Tai Lung the scroll for those reasons. If the Dragon Warrior didn't have humility, the title would be meaningless; Tai Lung did not have the right mindset to even UNDERSTAND the Dragon Scroll, much less become the Dragon Warrior.
I'm not saying Tai Lung shouldn't be allowed to be upset about not having it, or is obligated to ever forgive Shifu or Oogway, but he's a villain because he takes out his anger on innocent people who had nothing to do with it and tears apart the Valley of Peace, showing that he would abuse his power. And if he was given the scroll anyway and saw it was blank, he would've lashed out anyway. Had Tai Lung eventually accepted it with humilty, he could've been a great martial artist and not have to get Dr. Manhattan'd.
No issues with the first paragraph.
>His already extremely impressive skills were never going to be enough, he wanted the infinite power and knowledge that the Dragon Scroll was said to have
What is your source for this? Once he was declared the Dragon Warrior he's effectively already the best.
>Oogway saw through his ambitions and denied Tai Lung the scroll for those reasons.
Which resulted in Tai Lung attacking everyone. It's also unclear whether making Tai Lung the Dragon Warrior would have had any negative consequences.
>Tai Lung did not have the right mindset to even UNDERSTAND the Dragon Scroll, much less become the Dragon Warrior.
Then why didn't Oogway show him the scroll and tell him that he couldn't become the Dragon Warrior until he understood it? That way Tai Lung would have focused on improving what he lacked instead of attacking people.
Oogway screwed everything up when he didn't explain why Tai Lung wasn't worthy and gave him no way of becoming worthy.
"but he's a villain because he takes out his anger on innocent people who had nothing to do with it and tears apart the Valley of Peace"
This is completely out of character for him as he never shows any interest in attacking anywhere other than the temple after being freed. Almost like this was added in using a still frame because test audiences didn't like how he was punished for trying to steal this scroll.
>And if he was given the scroll anyway and saw it was blank, he would've lashed out anyway.
Why? His goal was to become the Dragon Warrior, something Po achieved without doing any training because Oogway declared him the Dragon Warrior.
Also Oogway could show him the scroll and tell him that he couldn't become the Dragon Warrior until he understood it. That would have fixed the entire problem.
>What is your source for this?
If you mean his martial skills, I'd say the fact that he beat the shit out of all Five of the Furious, beat the shit out of Shifu, and beat the shit out of Po, the actual Dragon Warrior.
>Which resulted in Tai Lung attacking everyone. It's also unclear whether making Tai Lung the Dragon Warrior would have had any negative consequences.
Which resulted in Tai Lung getting upset, and then HIM deciding to decimate farmers, merchants, and common civillians. Tai Lung deliberately fricking attacked the Valley of Peace over the scroll, he CHOSE to be evil. And come on now, Tai Lung still attacked Po even AFTER he got the scroll he threw everything away for.
>Then why didn't Oogway show him the scroll and tell him that he couldn't become the Dragon Warrior until he understood it?
Because becoming the Dragon Warrior means you have to read the scroll?? Watch the fricking movie?? And Tai Lung saw the scroll in the end and literally couldn't comprehend it.
>Oogway screwed everything up when he didn't explain why Tai Lung wasn't worthy and gave him no way of becoming worthy
Even beating him over the head with why he can't have it wouldn't have made a difference, he was dead set on the scroll no matter what and would've maimed anyone in the way. And he was already mad as shit when he couldn't have it, what makes you think he would listen? He couldn't have it, simple as, and Tai Lung could never accept that.
>This is completely out of character for him as he never shows any interest in attacking anywhere other than the temple
The Valley of Peace had to fricking EVACUATE when Tai Lung was coming. How can you see the flashback, and see the evacuation, and see how violent Tai Lung is and not think he's dangerous to other people? Other people with no defense to Kung Fu?
>Why?
If given absolute power, Tai Lung would abuse it absolutely. And Tai Lung's entitlement and pride wouldn't be able to accept the Scroll's true lesson: humility.
>the Scroll's true lesson: humility.
Now you're just making shit up to support your nonsense. The moral was be yourself. Its a mirror. The title and prestige is still real. Kung Fu Panda is just a badly written film.
Which requires humility to realize that being the Dragon Warrior isn't about being the best martial artist in the land, but about being the best "you" you can be, dumbass.
I can't think of any real plot holes in that film At best you could argue that Oogway in his benevolent wisdom should have intervened with Shifu before it reached the point of Tai Lung being so tightly wound, but even that I'm not sure is out of character. Oogway's a fatalist, he chose Po because the universe literally dropped him out of the sky in front of him.
>If you mean his martial skills
I meant your source that he wanted more power, despite already being the strongest.
>Tai Lung still attacked Po even AFTER he got the scroll he threw everything away for.
Because he thought that scroll was fake.
>Because becoming the Dragon Warrior means you have to read the scroll??
Oogway declared Po the Dragon Warrior at the start of the movie. Po only had to read the scroll because they needed him to fight Tai Lung and they thought it would help him. During the end credits Po showed the scroll to everyone.
>he was dead set on the scroll no matter what and would've maimed anyone in the way.
Which is why he should have been given it so he could understand why he wasn't worthy. That way he wouldn't have caused all the problems in the movie.
>He couldn't have it, simple as, and Tai Lung could never accept that.
Again Oogway screwed everything up when he didn't explain why Tai Lung wasn't worthy and gave him no way of becoming worthy.
>The Valley of Peace had to fricking EVACUATE when Tai Lung was coming.
So Po could have his battle in this city. If Po kept the battle entirely within the temple no one would need to evacuate.
>How can you see the flashback
The image with text because they didn't animate any of this. Almost like they added it at the last moment.
>see how violent Tai Lung is and not think he's dangerous to other people?
Notice how he ignored the city until Po went into it. Almost like he didn't care about it.
>If given absolute power, Tai Lung would abuse it absolutely.
Why?
>And Tai Lung's entitlement and pride wouldn't be able to accept the Scroll's true lesson: humility.
The lesson was you're special.
>understand why he wasn't worthy
He would not have
He would have accused them of shenanigans and gone on a rampage
>I meant your source that he wanted more power, despite already being the strongest.
Simple. He wanted the dragon scroll's infinite power to be the allegedly uncontested Dragon Warrior. He was extremely powerful, arguably one of the strongest, and he wanted MORE of it.
>"At last, the power of the Dragon Scroll is...MINE!"
>Because he thought that scroll was fake.
I don't think he did. He would've started coping and demanding Po to show him the real one. Po basically confirms its legit when he says that he didn't get why the Dragon Scroll was blank at first.
>Oogway declared Po the Dragon Warrior at the start of the movie. Po only had to read the scroll because they needed him to fight Tai Lung and they thought it would help him.
Alright, fine, I misremembered. I checked the movie again and the Dragon Scroll was meant to only be read by the Dragon Warrior, not that reading it would dub one a Dragon Warrior. That still means Oogway couldn't just show Tai Lung the scroll and expect everything to be fine or for the title to mean anything after that.
>Which is why he should have been given it so he could understand why he wasn't worthy. That way he wouldn't have caused all the problems in the movie.
But he didn't earn it and more importantly didn't GET it. You see how bewildered he is when he actually steals it from Po near the end of the movie. Po told him what it meant and Tai Lung couldn't understand it, he was engulfed in red mist. He would've certainly tried to strike Oogway in his fury. It's like trying to explain to a toddler why they can't have ice cream today and they start throwing a fit, except that toddler is 400 pounds of pure muscle and can shatter steel.
>So Po could have his battle in this city. If Po kept the battle entirely within the temple no one would need to evacuate.
Tai Lung was the one who dragged the fight to the city, not Po. He punted the shit out of that fatass panda down the stairs, it took a lot to get up there too.
(1/2)
>The image with text because they didn't animate any of this. Almost like they added it at the last moment.
citation needed
>Notice how he ignored the city until Po went into it. Almost like he didn't care about it.
Because nobody was there, and he was running to fight the Dragon Warrior himself and take the Dragon Scroll.
>>If given absolute power, Tai Lung would abuse it absolutely.
>Why?
He clearly abused the power he already did have, you moron. He was decimating the city and beat up Shifu TWICE, and had it not been for Oogway intervening the first time he would've unfairly stolen the scroll.
>The lesson was you're special.
>implying you can only have one lesson
Media literacy is fricking dead and people self inserting as the villains aren't helping it.
> Tai Lung still attacked Po even AFTER he got the scroll he threw everything away for.
>Because he thought that scroll was fake.
> he was dead set on the scroll no matter what and would've maimed anyone in the way.
>Which is why he should have been given it so he could understand why he wasn't worthy. That way he wouldn't have caused all the problems in the movie.
You anwser yourself.
Also he was a diciple of the master
The master dont need to giving an explanation of why he dont get what he want, if you need to explain to him like he is an autistic child its the exact reason of why he was a shitty diciple.
Also Shifu say this, he loved him so much that he dont realised what he become, Tai Lung was evil even there, but shifu was blinded by his love, that is why Oogway stop both.
>Tai Lung opens Dragon Scroll
>sees a reflection of himself
>"It's nothing."
I have no doubt in my mind that if Tai Lung had originally gotten the scroll he still would've gone on a rampage. He probably would've perceived the blankness as a conspiracy against him. Hell, even if the scroll had been actual instructions, Tai Lung would've still wanted more. Shifu promising it to him was a bad move, but Tai Lung was obsessive about the wrong goal from the start.
He would absolutely have regarded it as a trick that made his lifetime of training a cruel joke, without recognising the inherent value of that training.
Unless Oogway told him he couldn't use it because he was unworthy.
Never forget that Shifu is beaten senseless and apologizes, genuinely, for his role in Tai Lung’s misery. And Tai Lung’s face briefly falls as he considers accepting the apology and changing his ways. But he doesnt. He brushes Shifu aside and keeps charging towards his inevitable self-destruction
Tai Lung had a shot at redemption but CHOSE to continue down that path. Shifu is liable for a lot of the bad things that happened to him, but not that time. That was 100% a failure of Tai Lung’s character.
He implicitly killed a ton of peasants for no reason whatsoever. He should have been executed, but maybe they couldnt due to some martial artist ethics thing I dont understand
you can't abuse someone all their lives
and say your sorry, even if its a genuine apology, and act like that absolve you of everything you've done
A) Shifu didn't fricking abuse Tai lung. He babied tai lung and abused Tigress if anything
B) It wasn't supposed to but Tai Lung is also supposed to stop being a psychopathic murderer
We can't really objectively judge whether Shifu was a shit dad to Tai Lung or not, but Shifu thought so. At minimum, you can't train someone to fight without noticing they're an aggressive prick, unless you yourself are to some extent a prick. This was not a complicated movie yet I feel like some people here had trouble with it.
Yes, Shifu apologized, but only after locking Tai Lung up and intending to leave him there his entire life. Tai Lung had zero reason to forgive him because Shifu and Oogway already proved they didn't care.
I'm sure Shifu meant to apologize earlier, but kind of hard to give an apology after someone you know just went on a murderous rampage and thus had to be incarcerated for the good of the world
Come to think of it, what you said fits well with why Po is the Dragon Warrior.
He loves Kung Fu. Sure the admiration is nice but at the end of the day he chooses to stick it out despite facing the fact that everyone who he hoped to gain the admiration of fricking hates him for doing so.
His motivations for learning are entirely internal, he wants to learn because he wants to learn, not for the validation of others.
Most Tai Lung sympathisers are probably just autists who were themselves formerly treated like "gifted children" until they entered their 20s and reality hit them with disappointment and now they feel wronged by society somehow over the mistakes of the people who raised or mentored them.
It’s simpler than that.
The hero (Shifu) says clearly obviously and out loud:
“I was wrong for what happened. It was my fault. I have no excuse. I am sorry.”
Autists struggle with anything that isn’t obvious
Yeah, this type is common among Joker and Harley nuthuggers as well
This. The movie does not make excuses for Shifu's mistakes, and Shifu is forced to realize his frickup rather than just glossing it over.
I feel like you guys might be autistic yourselves with the amount of psychoanalysis you do of people based on what cartoon character they like.
Having the ability of disern the mind of someone just because how they understand a character is the opposite of autism
Do you actually have that ability? Or are you just projecting?
Are you not trying to do the same thing?
>formerly treated like "gifted children" until they entered their 20s and reality hit them with disappointment and now they feel wronged by society somehow over the mistakes of the people who raised or mentored them.
Oddly specific. Is there anything you want to tell us, anon? Get it off your chest.
I like sticking carrots up my ass
What type(s) of carrot?
I only watched Kung Fu Panda once all the way back as a kid, but I remember Tai Lung was framed as very sympathetic and I remember thinking it sucked he had to be evil. For Scar it's probably the opposite, everyone shits on him all the time and hates him just because, so some people, especially those that are drawn to him more than the milquetoast square jaw heroes, were annoyed by this and wanted to create their own narrative where things aren't quite so one-sided.
I can understand Tai Lung because the movie frames his fall as being a failing on Shifu's part just as much as his, something Shifu himself admits. Scar though is just classic pride overriding good judgment and terrible leadership.
What's kind of mind boggling is that the Lion guard states that Scar apparently got a super god tier mystical power, went around murdering people with it, and then the worst that his brother did was "Eh, I think I'll take the super roar away from him"
Wasn't Scar also corrupted by the big bad of the show? Like some kind of nonsense that basically implies his actions were just because he was infected?
Yeah the Gingetrons really screwed those lions over, if you're being fair about it. Scar wasn't the villain, the alien nanovirus was responsible for it all. What the frick are you talking about?
>One day, on a solo patrol, Askari encountered a mysterious lion, who suggested that Askari should be the King of the Pride Lands instead of Mufasa; a thought that intrigued Askari. However, the lion led him to a trap where a cobra bit his left eye, giving him his infamous scar as well as poisoning Askari's mind.
Yes sure if that's what you got, but where's it from was what I was trying to get at? Which direct to VHS sequel or ill-conceived TV series has given us this glorious concept?
It's literally the backstory from Lion Guard, pay the frick attention the reply string
I absolutely deserve that, but you or whoever also deserves at least a notional bollicking for bringing up "Lion Guard", independent of my own stupidity.
Hardly, it's part of the discussion since people are comparing the faults of Scar and Tai Lung, and as it so happens, Scar apparently was just a "victim" of brainwashing or some horse shit
I draw the line at b***hing about the movie, I refuse absolutely to b***h about an obscure spin-off's retroactive implications about the movie.
Yea, well it was part of the discussion. Your lines mean squat
I wasn't addressing you that means, just the original criminal.
yeah, got super evil venom stuck into him to corrupt him, and then, woops, turns out turning someone with a super power super evil is going to end up with him murdering you too.
>Let's take one of our most iconic villains give him a supernatural corruption so he's effectively innocent of all wrongdoing
Fricking Christ, Disney is creatively bankrupt
Fair, but posting with an image of Yellow Diamond who is undeniably worse than either of them is pretty funny
FYI Scar didnt mind Mufasa. He freaked the frick out when Mufasa replaced Scar with SIMBA. Hence his monologue that life is unfair for both of them. Scar figured when Mufasa finally ate it he'd be next in line and more or less lost his shit. In all three movies they've said the same thing, while Mufasa was a great king economically because he practiced restraint, Scar was the only thing stopping it from devolving into anarchy whether it's from hyenas or other prides trying to take over and his rage button is the fact that Mufasa is much more charismatic than he is and hes stuck in his shadow (literally) even though he was just as vital as Mufasa.
>Scar was the only thing stopping it from devolving into anarchy whether it's from hyenas or other pride
Wtf are you talking about?
He’s coping. Any Hyena that stepped foot on pride lands was publicly raped and executed by Mufusa himself.
umm ackshually, there’s no rape scene in original lion king movie but check out my fanfic which may or may not have dozens of tasteful displays of certain actions
>He freaked the frick out when Mufasa replaced Scar with SIMBA
What kind of a moron doesn’t realise that in a royal family once someone is king their successor will always be their own kid (unless they’re like two, in which case you could potentially have a chance of being regent for certain number of years) and not the king’s sibling?
Amongus haha sus
>Villain is abused
The people who abused him aren't held accountable
>Villain acts out
He must be held accountable
And you wonder why america is the way it is today
I completely agree with school shooters and I'm tired of pretending that I dont
America is the way it is because we're not allowed to put shitheads like you in your place anymore
go ahead and try
i have a knife just give me an excuse
>knife
Shouldn't you be more worried about tea and crumpets, Carter?
in close proximitty such as you punching me its way easier to stab you in a kidney and watch you die in less than a minute than shoot you
>in close proximitty such as you punching me its way easier to stab you in a kidney and watch you die in less than a minute than shoot you
Kid I've seen three people shot and two dead in ranges about six feet because anybody with a CCW legally has access to it and can generally flip off the safety with one hand. Plus all that adrenaline makes you run un a straight line.
>Kid
You can't say that word and then talk about personal experience with violence. Not because of school shootings or anything it just makes you sound like a fatass with a katana. I thought everyone understood this ten years ago.
I met a guy who got stabbed 6 times during a gun fight, he survived while the other dude got away but his body gor wrecked so fricking bad he was stuck on a liquid diet for the rest of his life
>gets punched and dies immediately
fp is bp
Doesn't apply to Scar. He just wanted to be King, but his bigger, stronger nobler younger brother was chosen instead. So he decided to be a manipulative, lying dickbag and murder his own brother so he could be in charge. And he completely fricked it up, proving that Mufasa was the correct choice all along.
Mufasa was king because he was bigger and would win in a fight. That is literally the only reason he was King and not Scar, not because of a vote of nobility or any bullshit, because if Scar challenged him for the throne Mufasa would kill him. The movie, the books, Scar, the gay toucan and Mufasa all say this fact.
Hence Scar killing Mufasa through subterfuge is a perfectly acceptable way of ascending to title. He won using the strengths gifted to him, just as Mufasa would have won otherwise.
something something dishonorable
something something somehow caused the drought
>use what few gifts you have to take throne from homicidal violent brother
>turns out nature itself despises you as well
>causes drought and famine during your reign
I'm starting to think Africa might be a stupid fricking continent.
Not enough human sacrifice, rule number 1 of appeasing the rain gods
The drought was normal, the dry season/wet season cycle happens every year. What was ABNORMAL was hunting every prey species to extinction to feed the insatiable appetites of the hyenas.
That doesn't change the fact Scar was a tertible king when he did get the chance to prove himself
Wasn't Scar younger?
Scar is younger. He states that he cant take Mufasa in a fight and doesnt plan to and feels utterly betrayed his nephew will ascend before he does.
Mufasa fricked his brother over hard. Regardless if Scar was going to be an asshat he got fricked anyway.
>feels utterly betrayed his nephew will ascend before he does. Mufasa fricked his brother over hard.
I feel like this is standard for dynastic succession, maybe I missed something in the several millenia we've been doing it.
It is but in an actual kingdom Scar would be given some other conquered territory to rule over himself rather than squatting in Pride Castle Rock with his brother so he wouldn't be too upset
That's arguably so, I guess, for a conquering nation in an expansionist phase. I'm having trouble thinking of many examples though. Would you give your ambitious younger brother an autonomous territory within the pridelands, close enough to make trouble? It's not like he was worse off than the plebs/gazelles in any way, there's very little to defend Scar.
>scar
>kills his repected and liked brother
>is a shit king as he refuses to move on when his pride begins to starve
>Tai Lung
>the moment he isn't given power for fear he would abuse it he proves the choice correct when he abuses the power he does have to dunk on townsfolk
>kills his repected and liked brother
This part I never bought, Mufasa is a dickhead the entire movie and whenever Scar is onscreen characters literally jeer and hiss. Mufasa tries to kill him at least once because he has worse autism than Scar does.
Asides from eating his subjects which comes with the gig, how is Mufasa a dick? When did he try to kill Scar? Which characters jeered and hissed? I don't remember any of this.
It's all in anons 2000 page NSFW lion king fanfic
>Kills the father of the character you are supposed to care about
OP: Why is he supposed to be the bad guy?
I get you want to frick the lion but come on.
You can make a case for Tai Lung getting screwed over because he was promised something he was later denied but that's still on him for going crazy and taking his anger out on everyone. Scar lived a luxurious life and yet his ambition was going from position of power #2 to position of power #1.
>dude just obey the government lmao don't try to make a change
>dude just kill people to get your way lmao even your brother that loves and trusts you
Anon, Scar was still royalty despite not being the ruler of the entire pridelands. He was no peasant, he CHOSE the Hyenas over his own family and was only in being the King for personal gain and power. The minute that he needed to exercise responsibility as a ruler and move the pride somewhere else, he tossed his hands up and drank wine while the rest of the pride starved.
I was talking about Tai Lung
Mufasa was the favorite child and stole his woman. He had it coming.
>dude just go on a killing spree because you got screwed over lmao even though it proves you aren't worthy
It proves that the higher ups are corrupt and don't deserve to decide who's worthy and who's not
Justice is defined by the authorities and people who try to change society are maligned as rabble rousing traitors. This is why scar and snowleopardman are portrayed as making society worse, to ensure people are loyal to the society that be.
I think Scar's problem was he simply got greedy. I'm not going to imply that he really did anything overtly wrong outside of this (see
) but killing his brother just to "be king" (which doesn't appear to actually mean anything) was indeed greedy. The man did not play to his strengths at all.
>Well what were his strengths?
Pic related. Simba was the same golden child of the pride that Mufasa was if not moreso. Simba loved his uncle and listened to everything he had to say up until it became clear Scar as duplicitous. This is probably in spite of Mufasa (and this is an assumption, but it seems likely) instructing everyone to regard Scar as if he was lion-satan every time he made an appearance anywhere. If he simply treated Simba with a level hand he probably could have gotten whatever he wanted, outside of being the king of Pride Rock, which again does not appear to actually mean anything outside of taking responsibility for inevitable droughts and other bullshit you can't control. And even then, imagine if Simba was in that sort of position. If Scar could absorb the blame somehow (without dying) and leave Simba pristine then that would have cemented how loyal Simba was even harder. Literally the winning play was "be a good uncle for Simba", the guy is already royalty but if he wants influence then that's how you do it. Killing Mufasa so you have to be the scapegoat for every stupid or bad thing that ever happens was idiotic.
1. Go be the lord of the hyenas
2. Make it clear to Simba and family you are still with them, you just lord over the "bad guys"
3. Keep said bad guys in line, placate them as Scar seemed largely effective at doing
4. Whenever anything bad happens "uhh Scar and the hyenas did it"
5. Everyone boos and jeers until Simba "fixes it"
Voila, you now have power over an entire group and your family regards you as an irreplaceable boon
He also should've fricked him and become young king's mate so second king on the throne
you should try therapy
Can we also talk about how ass moronic Scar's plan was? Him and Simba were the only ones at the gorge and Simba didn't even know Scar was the one that killed Musfasa. He literally could have played the role of the caring uncle and becoming a surrogate father to Simba all the whole making the decisions because Simba would have been too young to rule.
Scar didn't care. He was through and through a narcissist that didn't care what happened to others or to the land as long as he was in charge. The deleted scene where he proposes to Nala and then briefly reprises Be Prepared shows it more clearly.
But he wanted to be king, if Simba was alive he wouldn't be able to. It was moronic but his arrogance didn't allow him to settle for less
>Tai Lung
Nah. He was fricked over, but then threw a temper tantrum and attacked random peasants.
>we have to keep exclusive the mysterious amazing dragon scroll with the hidden knowledge of... be true to yourself
They all deserved to die for that bullshit.
It was a test and meant for self reflection and realization. Oogway knew Tai Lung would fail it which is why he wasn't able to become dragon warrior. Po got it and then he vaporized Tai Lung.
Then why didn't they teach him better? Thy found him as a baby. Any behavior he exhibited is a result of their influence
That was all Shifu, and he and the movie knew he fricked up with raising him. Nobody but Oogway knew what the dragon scroll was about though
Tai Lung's b***hfit wasn't a part of Oogway's prediction, he just saw that he was a little b***h with zero humility and didn't let him have the scroll. And if Tai Lung didn't tear apart the Valley of Peace over it, he could've been a great martial artist that might've one day became worthy to receive it. Despite Shifu's mollycoddling, Tai Lung was never once owed the Dragon Scroll.
>he just saw that he was a little b***h with zero humility and didn't let him have the scroll.
The magical scroll with the exclusive forbidden knowledge of... be true to yourself
Oogway was a fricking dumb c**t and a bigger villain than Tai Lung.
>The magical scroll with the exclusive forbidden knowledge of... be true to yourself
That's the point, yeah. It serves as a higher goal so that people won't just sit on their laurels and strive to better themselves so that they could one day be worthy of the scroll, its a fricking kung fu movie. You're the dumb c**t for not even grasping that. Last time I checked, Oogway didn't demolish a whole town or enforce military action on all of China or started sucking people's souls and shit.
He didn't do it himself, he just caused all that with his Dragon Scroll bullshit.
Only one of the villains in the KFP movie trilogy could be said to be Oogway's fault, and it isn't Tai Lung. That's like blaming gold for making gold diggers murderous backstabbing curmudgeons.
Shify really was an idiot. Him dismissing Po because he wasn't the unstoppable berserker that he was expecting shows that he didn't learn anything from what happened with Tai Lung.
To be fair, it was an unbelievable pill to swallow. He eventually got around it though, and achieved a small bit of that peace Oogway was talking about
Po displayed nothing but rank incompetence, scepticism was an appropriate reaction. And while he trained him cruelly at first, he did train him.
It's a tale of love, expectations, and tragic realization. Oogway knew about the scroll's contents and saw Tai Lung become someone that couldn't become the dragon warrior. Shifu didn't know about the scroll but only thought about Tai Lung being the dragon warrior. Neither of them realized that Tai Lung would go out of control like he did. You can blame all three but Tai Lung is still in the wrong because of how he reacted. He could've been a great warrior that could rival Po. His nephew in the first series showed what should've happened with raising and training Tai Lung. A fighting prodigy that forged his own path and helped others instead of hurting them. He was fortunate because he didn't have aspirations of being the dragon warrior. His conflict was if he would go bad like his uncle.
I think Oogway came to realize that Tai Lung wasn't the dragon warrior but nothing beyond that and it was only after all that training and when Tai Lung and Shifu were expecting Oogway to give his blessing. Tai Lung would've probably still have gone crazy when he got the scroll and realized it was a self discovery thing and not some super power or secret knowledge.
Oogway saw their was arkness but still close to do nothing knowing very well he had the type of personality to sperg out due to being denied the dragon scroll
Tai Lung in the flashback didn't seem like he'd sperg out. Disappointed and angry is understandable but going on a rampage and having to be jailed for 20 years heavily restrained and watched over 24/7 by multiple guards isn't.
>Tai Lung was going to go crazy and murder everyone even if he received the scroll because... because... BECAUSE I'D BE WRONG IF ANYTHING ELSE HAPPENED
>Tai Lung was going to go crazy and murder everyone even if he received the scroll because his entire identity revolved around it, and if it was nothing then he too would be nothing
Ftfy. And the moment he finally got what he wanted, the first thing he did with that knowledge is punching Po in the throat.
>only thought about Tai Lung being the dragon warrior
Was his training about that, though? I thought he believed that Tai Lung could be the best or w/e, but it wasn't specifically about becoming the Dragon Warrior. The hall of artifacts shows there's been a ton of kung-fu heroes with no connection to the Scroll.
Taking his quotes from
which was during his fight with Shifu.
>Tai Lun: You knew I was the Dragon Warrior! You always knew... But when Oogway said otherwise, what did you do? What did you do?! Nothing!
>Shifu: You were not meant to be the Dragon Warrior! That was not my fault!
>Tai Lung: Not your fault?! Who filled my head with dreams?! Who drove to train until my bones cracked?! Who denied me MY DESTINY?!
It's implied he was believed to be the dragon warrior early in training or even the very beginning and he spent years working towards that goal only to be denied in the end. Tai Lung got a raw deal but he proved he wasn't worthy with how he reacted.
Did Oogway know/intend for Tai Lung to go on a killing spree?
If he did, he a monster who is ultimately responsible for all of it.
But if Tai Lung hadn't gone on a killing spree then denying him the worthless scroll would have been for nothing and wrong.
Megatron
>Born as a low class miner in a world with massive inequality ruled by the Primes
>due to impressive skills, become a gladiator
>Through charisma alone and a message of meritocracy, amass a loyal following of soldiers willing to die for you
>to maintain their grasp on Cybertron, elect a a new Prime nd grant him immense powers and convince him to wage war on Megatron
>Despite their lowly beginnings, the decepticons nearly win the war, shattering the Prime aristocracy that has ruled Cybertron since the beginning
>In a last ditch attempt to save their sclerotic regime, cast the very thing that brings life to their species( the allspark) into space and put the planet at jeopardy
>Universally reviled as the bad guy despite wanting to save his race and planet (not to mention the fact that earth is literally Transformer Satan in th Bayverse)
Most of that isn't true for every version of Megatron and it's especially not true for Bay Megatron. He was Cybertron's military leader and was mad he had to share power with Optimus, the political leader, so he staged a military coup.
Movie Megs was right to hate earth though. It is the dormant unicron and his sole goal in all the movies is reviving Cybertron while Prime opposes that
it's funny that post is specifically about bayverse megatron when he's the only one psychotic enough to eat the sparks of the bots he's killed
God how different things would have been had we gotten the novel's ending for Dark of the Moon instead of psycho Prime offing Megs
I wonder if th goal for the sequel to the last knight was to turn megs into the psycho version of gakvatron since Prime kicking Megs off the station was identical to rodimus kicking galvatron off unicron
>Megatron did nothing wrong
nah man kill space Hitler
Optimus was lying in the first movie.
He plans to shove the Allspark into his spark to destroy it and kill himself, yet when Sam goes to put in in Megatron which would solve multiple problems without Optimus dying he cries "NO!". Optimus thought something else would happen if the Allspark was forced into a spark.
Optimus was lying.
is he holding a spliff?
Scar was an awful king, he replaced his own kind with hyenas so his brother was better candidate
Oogway supporters are like Trump supporters.
I knew Tai Lunggays were moronic Hilldogs.
>Guys, guys. I know about Tai Lung. He was a student, the first ever to master the thousand scrolls of kung fu, and... then he turned bad and... now he's in jail...
>He wasn't just a student. Shifu found him as a cub. And he raised him as his son... and when the boy showed talent in kung fu... Shifu trained him. He believed in him. He told him he was destined for greatness... It was never enough for Tai Lung. He wanted the Dragon Scroll. But Oogway saw darkness in his heart and refused... Outraged, Tai Lung laid waste to the valley. He tried to take the scroll by force
>I rotted in jail for 20 years because of your weakness!
>Obeying your master is not weakness!
>You knew I was the Dragon Warrior! You always knew... But when Oogway said otherwise, what did you do? What did you do?! Nothing!
>You were not meant to be the Dragon Warrior! That was not my fault!
>Not your fault?! Who filled my head with dreams?! Who drove to train until my bones cracked?! Who denied me MY DESTINY?!
>All I ever did, I did to make you proud!
Posting Tai Lung's backstory
I think 'jail' undersells the torturous inhumane conditions Tai Long was kept in for 20 whole years.
20 years in the dark, on your knees, with your arms chained to your sides.
>20 years in the dark, on your knees, with your arms chained to your sides.
You saw what he did when he got free, right? Of course he was jailed that way. It was the only way to keep him there for even that long.
They could have executed him but their lust for revenge bite them in the ass.
>receives a single goose feather and a little bit of help shattering a single armband
>escapes
If anything he needed more. Oh it must've been awful to not be able to fricking breathe but still.
It's reasonable that it was the only way to contain him, and it's in character that he'd refuse a humane execution or being hamstrung and released or whatever. But yeah that's rough time.
The Tai Lung thing is exacerbated by how unlikeable Shifu and the Five are in KFP1.
>(Tigress to Shifu after Po is chosen Dragon Warior) Forgive us, Master (she kneels forward and bows. The others follow suit) We have failed you
>(Shifu holds up a paw to stop her) No. If the panda has not quit by morning, then I will have failed you
Shifu was a well written character in 1. His attitude towards Po was understandable.
Yeah Shifu was flawed because he had his own arc to go through, but that doesn't make him unlikeable (at least to me). The only thing that actually bothers me about him is that he obeyed Oogway completely in not giving Tai Lung the scroll, but tried to mess with Po when Oogway chose him.
Difference is that Po was a fat moron at the start of the film that fell out of the sky that got the scroll that even Tai Lung was unworthy of.
It's african version of the mandate of heaven. If bad things like natural disasters happen during your rule, that's because you weren't worthy to rule in the first place.
It's a fairly direct Fisher King scenario, the kingdom is a reflection of the king.
>(Prison warden Vachir to Tai Lung while he's imprisoned) Hey, tough guy. Did you hear? Oogway's finally going to give someone the Dragon Scroll and it's not going to be you
>(Tai Lung to the messenger after he escapes) I'm glad Shifu sent you. I was beginning to think I had been forgotten. Fly back there and tell them... the real Dragon Warrior is coming home
He was totally entitled. Couldn't even accept the possibility of someone more worthy of the title than him showing up in the last 20 years.
Scar was a pussy. You take over the pride, you kill the cubs to bring the females into heat and ensure that only your own genetic line is passed on. You don't tell them to run off and get adopted by an interracial gay couple before coming back for revenge, you grow a pair and fricking kill the little shit yourself. That's Lion 101.
Tai Lung was an idiot. How do you get that good at Kung Fu and not realize most of it is parables and Zen bullshit? Oogway never once gives a straight answer the whole goddamn time. The answer was to go on an epic solo journey studying under other masters and return when the kingdom needed you most, dumbass.
Megatron was a deluded fool for appearing in a Michael Bay movie.
>Scar was a pussy. You take over the pride, you kill the cubs to bring the females into heat and ensure that only your own genetic line is passed on. You don't tell them to run off and get adopted by an interracial gay couple before coming back for revenge, you grow a pair and fricking kill the little shit yourself. That's Lion 101.
Scar's behavior was actually atypical for lions. Despite what people may think, it is fairly common for brothers taking a pride together and both mate with the females. Not only are multiple lions more likely to take down a rival, but on a genetic level, full-blooded brothers are so closely related that your nieces and nephews surviving is almost as good as having kids yourself.
The guy on the right literally got the validation he wanted from his father and then decided he didn't care and only wanted ultimate power.
The guy on the left is just an butthole.
>Oogway supporters be like
THEY OWED HIM SEX
I MEAN THE DRAGON SCROLL
Scar did whatever he wanted when he was King, something that Mufasa knew was wrong.
The Lion King, at the very least, is based on a story where you're most definitely not supposed to root for the protagonist.
As for KFP, while Tai Lung was tragic, he was also completely out of control and had to be put down. Oogway absolutely did not deserve a peaceful death, but the rest of the village wasn't responsible for Tai Lung's mistreatment.
But you were absolutely supposed to root for Kimba.
>villain is more reasonable than the protagonists and has better morals if you look at the facts rationally
>movie/cartoon/comic scrambles to make them illegitimate at the last minute by having them act irrationally evil in stupid ways (oh look, he's a murderer/rapist/genocidal so we don't have to consider his other points now)
Post examples
Santa Claus
from "Santa Inc."
Name three
Amon. Magneto. The Butler from the Aristocats.
>Amon
Waaah why are some people just better at shit how dare they
>Magneto
Just doing unto others what was done to him, no moral high ground
>Butler
Too stupid to do anything right
>Amon
Benders having higher social status is simply an inevitability of how the worldbuilding was set up. Nobody in real life blames athletes who are born with better genetics and wants them to be disqualified, they understand it's just luck.
>Magneto
Way too many incarnations to judge them all, but he's been portrayed as the good guy multiple times, so he's hardly made out to be illegitimate.
>The Butler
Never saw The Aristocats, can't comment.
>Benders having higher social status is simply an inevitability of how the worldbuilding was set up. Nobody in real life blames athletes who are born with better genetics and wants them to be disqualified, they understand it's just luck.
Being a bender is much more than being able to jump higher than other people by a foot. Its the difference between easily providing for you village or being a magic-less peasant
> Its the difference between easily providing for you village or being a magic-less peasant
Like half the world was made out of benders, where this line of thought comes from
We obviously see a lot more benders than non-benders since they're the only ones who matter, Amon would still be a butthurt b***h even if he we pretended he wasn't a bender. How many ITT have waged terrorist campaigns just because others have more god-given gifts than they? And before you answer remember that yes, although you're the most intelligent person in the universe, it doesn't count when you leave it to rot.
There's plenty more people born able bodied than those who are born with severe physical or mental defects, but most people understand it's not anyone's fault.
>The Butler from the Aristocats
Frick off the entire point of rich people leaving money to pets is so that it goes to the help in all but name. Literally all the idiot has to do is take care of some cats for a decade until they die and all the rest of the money is his to do with. He can hire a sitter himself just to take care of the cats then go on a year long vacation to hawaii.
This has always been one of the weridest things to argue about on Cinemaphile to the point I can't believe anyone defending Edgar is serious. Like you said, he's a dumbass that just had to be patient since the money was his in all but name.
What if the cats reproduce?
Frickin spay them its not like she specified they can't undergo surgery or some shit
Its also technically not her pets after that if you want to put them for adoption
It also doesn't matter you're a multi-millionaire an additional litter should mean fricking nothing to you.
The new cats wouldn't count since they weren't the rich lady's pets.
Why would that matter? It's not like the cat's kids inherit, it still goes to the butler. He was just bad at math and thought the cats would outlive him.
?t=51
Magneto has always been a genocidal moron. Since his first appearance. Magneto also is usually directly responsible for the worsening image of mutants and of the escalation of tension between mutants and humans.
That only really hapoens when the morals they claim to have sound well and good in a vaccuum, but ultimately make shit worse when applied, atleast by them. Their ideas aren't entirely wrong, but their morals and the methods they're comfortable with are. Like how Thanos said that there isn't enough resources in the universe, and instead of using the infinite stones of power to make more, he cut the universe's population in half and didn't even bother fixing it with flex tape.
I think you're posting a good example of what anon is talking about.
Instead of having Thanos acting reasonable with reasonable concerns about limited resources, they had is solution be stupid just because he was a villain. Then they doubled down in Part 2 and had Alt Universe Thanos be even less complex morally by just having him be a murder everyone douche.
>he's not the Dragon Warrior, he's always going to be evil since he has the same amount of denial as a transvestite, shut the frick up already
>Oogway won't give Tai Lung the scroll because he's afraid Tai Lung will sperg out
>Tai Lung spergs out anyway
>This is Oogway's fault for not giving him the scroll
???
Oogway set up the test.
Oogway's teaching is what made Tai Lung who is is, literally raised from birth to follow his bullshit.
Without Oogway's bullshit Tai Lung wouldn't have killed anyone.
>Oogway set up the test.
So now the teacher is responsible for the student chimping out and giving other students a concussion and broken bones for failing said test?
>Oogway's teaching
SHIFU'S TEACHING. SHIFU was the father figure, NOT Oogway
And who taught Shifu? Who's teaching/learning is Shifu passing on?
Fricking moron. Admit your ideas are thoughts are garbage.
And who is responsible for teaching Oogway? We clearly need to keep climbing the chain to find the one to blame.
Oogway didn't have a master, he INVENTED kung fu.
Alright, then we'll blame Mr and Mrs Oogway for letting their son invent it.
Oogway was born grown up with no parents? He just frickin materialized into the universe to do bicycle kicks? And at no point did Tai Lung ever fricking realize that the master of all kung fu being a long sighted turtle was ever indicative of the kind of thoughts he should have?
>And at no point did Tai Lung ever fricking realize that the master of all kung fu being a long sighted turtle was ever indicative of the kind of thoughts he should have?
Oogway shat on Tai Lung so hard when they fought, he probably should have realized the highest possible authority on kung fu telling him he's not worthy of the scroll means he's not fricking worthy of the scroll.
The irony of Tai Lung is that for all his intense training and discipline, he was ultimately a spoiled brat who thought he knew better than everyone else. And while Shifu is responsible for not instilling some humility in him, it's not like Shifu raised him that way purpose. Shifu literally tells Tai Lung that obeying his master is not weakness but Tai Lung wouldn't listen.
They aren't implied to have had much direct interaction. Shifu's teachings are what made Tai Lung who he is. Oogway's degree of responsibility for Shifu is not cut and dried.
Shifu taught Tai Lung poorly but he didn't teach Tai Lung to go on a rampage if he doesn't get what he wants. That's all on Tai Lung.
Shifu arguably had responsibility to make sure the guy he was teaching kung fu superpowers to was a murderous butthole regardless of whether he was born that way or was nurtured into it. It's on Tai Lung and Shifu.
*Was not a murderous butthole.
He could try to teach
He could never force
He was not obliged to teach him kung fu if he wasn't able to curb his impulses.
He unsuccessfully taught him kung fu, as he unsuccessfully taught him to curb his impulses.
Tai Lung successfully learned to fight though
he unsuccessfully learned to curb his impulses.
Their failure is mutual.
How the frick did Scar taking the throne caused a drought? does the king control the weather?
I think that shit just happened because shit happens in nature. They just had a scapegoat in the form of the king.
His own, dipshit. Shifu projected his own pride into Tai Lung, Shifu was the one who worked him to the bone, and it was Shifu that served as Tai Lung's father figure. It started with him, and over the course of the film he recognized it was him, knew it was his fault, and tried to make up for it and apologize to the person he affected. Stop being willfully moronic.
Wrong dipshit. Shifu's master was Oogway. He learned from Oogway and taught Oogways bullshit to Tai Lung.
You will clearly do anything and everything to pretend that turtle frick isn't responsible with his bullshit test that caused all the problems. Lie, invent baseless headcanons and just plain act dumb.
>Oogways bullshit
You mean the idea that the scroll granted power? Because it's difficult to imagine any of the power hungry butthole behaviour Tai Lung had coming from Oogway. It's made pretty explicit it came from Shifu, more or less accidentally.
>and taught Oogways bullshit to Tai Lung.
Last time I checked, he never tried instilling Oogway's fatalism and inner peace mantras and what have you. Shifu was his student, but you've got to be fricking with my entire ass if you think you're convincing me that they're 1:1 reflections of eachother and their teachings. Oogway lived and died by the flow, and Shifu was a harsh teacher, especially after the falling out between him and Tai Lung. Watch the fricking movie and tell me these two characters are the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAQtEs2Img
>You will clearly do anything and everything to pretend that turtle frick isn't responsible with his bullshit test that caused all the problems. Lie, invent baseless headcanons and just plain act dumb.
>He says, while inventing his own baseless headcanon
In what world would someone going on a rampage for being rejected or denied something be seen as anything but a lunatic? How would it be anyone else's fault but them for the property damage and casualties? "Give him what he wants all the time or else its your fault that he spazzes out!" Get the frick outta here with that bullshit.
Why are you stopping at oogway then? Why not go ask oogway's master why didn't he stop foetal tai lung from being evil? Why not ask oogway's master's master why he didn't make kung fu completely evil proof?
Because its completely fricking moronic and trying to absolve the grade A c**t that is Tai Lung of blame.
>OOOH ITZ NOT HIS FAULT HE DIDDN HAF NO DADDY OH HE JUST NEEDS MORE TRAININ FOR DEM PROGRAMS HE DIDN'T MEAN TO DESTROY AN ENTIRE TOWN
Because the spirits control the sky, and those spirits include the parents of those Scar tried to murder and (in the musical) rape.
The drought hurt the honest Pridelanders, but it also forced them to stand up to Scar ASAP before more lives could be lost.
There is some real contrarian UM ACKTUALLY the villain was WRONG infesting Cinemaphile these days.
Its some kind of nasty brainworm where they will die on the hill of maintaining that no villain in the history of fiction was ever actually right.
>There is some real contrarian UM ACKTUALLY the villain was WRONG infesting Cinemaphile these days
We're only talking about two villains, and they're wrong because they're actual villains. Not antagonists, but actual EVIL villains that murder, lie, cheat, and steal and shit. Are you trying to act like you're some genius for being contrarian?
You should be embarrassed for being incredibly reddit you contrarian psude frick.
Of course anon. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is something something reddit. Do you even read what you're typing up, or is it all predictive text and autocorrect writing it for you?
>some real contrarian UM ACKTUALLY the villain was WRONG
by definition that's not contrarian you fricking moron
Tai Lung flipped out after being told his entire life he was special. Scar had no reason behind his actions other than being a greedy, spiteful c**t. I wouldn't say either was treated like shit. Scar got to live in the lion version of a castle and Tai Lung lived happily with his adoptive dad until he had his temper tantrum.
I don't get people shitting on Oogway. He was right the whole damn time. He was right about Tai Lung not deserving the scroll and he was right about Po being the correct choice. This is even further justified by all the insane bullshit Po could do in the sequels. If anyone is responsible for why Tai Lung went ape shit aside from himself, it'd be Shifu.
I think its because they don't get what Oogway's about either and an additional disdain for the elderly. Also he inconveniently croaks in the first movie and can't kung pow punch the problem away this time
Its gays with no personal responsibility trying to blame anybody but themselves for their own failings then projecting themselves onto Tai Lung. They also have the overinflated egos to believe that they're also supremely competent and have just been wronged by the universe; completely missing the point that Po was wronged far more than Tai Lung ever was and never dreamed of hurting those around him.
>completely missing the point that Po was wronged far more than Tai Lung ever was and never dreamed of hurting those around him.
That, and everyone just ignores the parallels between Tigress and Tai Lung. Not for both of them being tigers, but both of them were expected to be the dragon warrior and then ended up not getting it. Tigress was arguably done dirtier because instead of just a plain no, a fat moron fell out of the sky at the last second in front of her just when Oogway was going to point in her direction. Yet she never threw a b***hfit like Tai Lung, she still kept up her training and was a hero, and to this day is one of the most respected martial artists in KFP.
Scar is royalty who lusted for power and obtained it by starting a peasant's rebellion. he's the lowest of the low
Mufasa: Some minorities can't live here because all they do is cause problems
Scar: I'm gonna orchestrate an insurgent revolution to regicide you and your son under the guise of fighting for equality
The world becomes a shithole
Simba: I'm back and I'm ready to restore order
Scar killed his brother because Mufasa replaced him as an heir. Holy shit there is an entire scene where Scar says hes the brains and Mufasa is the charisma and muscle and Mufasa fricked him over for his own son. Like this is straight dialog in the movie that Scar is pissed he was disinherited and Mufasa cant grasp why his brother might resent his arrogant kid crowing about being king.
>hes the brains
Where is that shown to be anything other than Scar wanking himself? Committing crimes does not mean you're smart.
>Mufasa replaced him as an heir.
Which is idiotic to complain about since Mufasa would have been king until he died. If he lives a long time Scar would be geriatric and in no shape to be king or dead already, and if he dies in a freak accident Simba would be a figurehead while the lion higher-ups (including Scar) would make the real decisions.
Well, presumably Scar was pissed because it added an extra step to his coup.
>It's a "villain has been treated like shit all his life for no reason
pic unrelated
Oggway is a piece of shit
letting Shifu messed up Tai Long and almost messing up Tigress
just so he could teach Shifu a lesson is fricked up
>letting Shifu messed up Tai Long
Oggway doesn't hover over Shifu every second he didn't know how badly he was forcing this you'll be the dragon warrior thing into Tai Lung's head. Oggway isn't Shifu's god damn babysitter he lets Shifu does his own thing.
Scar killed his brother because he's a greedy narcissist and was such a shit ruler the kingdom nearly collapsed.
Tai Lung was sympathetic but he wasn't "treated like shit all his life". He lived a pretty good life until he was denied what he worked his whole life towards and had a meltdown.
Even if Tai Lung was denied becoming the Dragon Warrior, he could've still done great and benefitial things with his skills and knowledge. Instead he chose to ruin his reputation on China and his relationship with Shifu out of lust for power (reading the scroll wouldn't make him the Dragon Warrior. It'd just make him more powerful, or so he thought)
>you can't abuse someone all their lives and say your sorry, even if its a genuine apology, and act like that absolve you of everything you've done
Shifu never asked Tai Lung for forgiveness, and Tai Lung was never goaded into forgiving Shifu for all of that shit. That, and Shifu did take responsibility not just for taking the asswhooping but for also defending the Jade Palace *alone*. He fully expected to be defeated or even killed during that confrontation.
Oh for fricks sake, meant to reply to
>murder
>attempted murder
come on, now. Still, I love them both. Good villains with great ambition, and unfortunately the question afterwards for both would be "and then what?" Scar clearly failed this question, and I suspect Tai Lung, as well.
It sucks how KFP1 is the only Dreamworks film directed by John Stevenson, who joined Dreamworks in 1999 (when Shrek was being made). His first credit there was a special thanks on the 2000 short Metropopular (pic related), before having a story artist credit on Shrek in 2001. After working as a story artist on some later DW films (like Madagascar), he became the KFP1 director in 2004. He knocked it out the park with his first directional job, which premiered in 2008, but then departed from Dreamworks afterwards. No involvement with the KFP sequels.
>I strongly identify with the villain so that means they did nothing wrong. People were mean to me and I feel entitled.
Maybe you're just a shit person too.
Unironically a bully mentality post
How to you memory-hole the opening to The Lion King? The song "Circle of Life" gives away the whole thing, but they then later have Mufasa exposition dump and explain that the success of any lion king is understanding the balance of nature and respecting all the animals that take part in it. Scar is treated like shit because he's always bullying and/or trying to eat anyone smaller than him, which Mufasa recognizes (as should anyone in the audience capable of wiping themselves) that he lacks the respect and wisdom required to be a proper ruler who can see the kingdom through good times and bad.
There are legitimate complaints against Mufasa's rule. He eats people too. Presumably some body donor system could be worked out, or if that doesn't supply enough meat the lions should ethically speaking allow themselves to die so they aren't supporting themselves through repeated murder. Shockingly enough, nobody thought this was such great content that it simply had to be included.
If his people accept the circle of life then they also accept their place in it as prey
The jokes and overall personality from both KFP sequels are unbearable and obnoxious. Totally different from the first film.
Scar is incel coded. Like Shakespeare's depiction of Richard III, who cites the fact that he can't bang any woman as one of the reason's he's made in the very opening of the play.
Scar's a prick and an idiot who ruined everything when he came into power by forgetting to betray the hyenas.
Tai Lung just got fricked over by Kung Fu Autism. They purposely trained him wrong, as a joke.
>by forgetting to betray the hyenas
But he didn't forget, he threw them under the bus in a last effort to save his ass. If anything, if he had just NOT screwed them over, he just might have been able to get away with his life, or even just try to bring down Pride Rock by warring until everyone, possibly even himself were dead
Scar's an idiot who felt entitled to something and wound up squandering it
Tai Lung got hyped up, but is still at fault for how he REACTED. You can't say a rapist is justified just because he was led on and blue-balled for most of his damn life
What would Tai Lung even do if he was given the scroll, though? There was no secret.
Probably still sperg out, since he had been fed nothing but hypium and hype cola for half his life. He (and Shifu and pretty much everyone that had some inkling about the scroll) thought the scroll was meant to unlock greater power or impart some kind of unique move only the Dragon Warrior could possess, and turns out to just be what many think is a cosmic joke
How is it that you autists struggle this hard to grasp why Tai Lung is in the wrong?
It doesn’t matter what happens in the past, if you start harming or outright KILLING innocents who committed the simple crime of living their life, YOU are the bad guy, plain and simple.
As for Scar, he’s just a dumbass.
>context doesn't matter
autism
>I was hyped up by my father figure, that means I can kill people
Who fricking knows. It's one thing to say that Tai Lung was given a shit deal by his stepdad not helping him gauge his expectations, but then you got folk outright making it sound like going on a rampage is a legitimate response to finding out you're not the legendary super kung fu master
It's because Tai Lung is a tragic sympathetic character and a total badass, while Po is a comedic dumbass and Shifu and the Five are worthless jobbers. Naturally people gravitate towards Tai Lung.
>tragic sympathetic characte
Just barely
>It's because Tai Lung is a tragic sympathetic character and a total badass
True, but he's badass because he fricks shit up and is a twisted opposite of Po. Making him a dindu nuffin just robs him of his presence and ruins what made him such a treat onscreen as well as the movie's message. If he really was as innocent as some anons project to be--sorry, I meant claim to be, then it just weakens him and weakens the story. Retroactively claiming Oogway to be evil all along is convouluted and only serves to shit on what is a pretty decent movie for its age.
They're probably incel sorts or general disgruntled fricks rather than autists. Using your shitty life as a lame excuse to hurt others is pretty common, it stands to reason a lot of people like to relate when the guy with a shitty life is also a super kung fu badass.
The movie does a shit job of depicting Tai Lung as a killer. We're told he "laid waste to the valley" and it's IMPLIED he killed people, but the flashback is just him trying to take the Dragon Scroll in the temple. Later he escapes and lets the messenger goose live. Then he fights the Five and lets them all live. He fights Shifu and might have killed him, but he was conflicted about the whole thing.
So the only ones Tai Lung kills that we see are the guards, who both personally wronged him and were kinda pricks. After watching the movie Tai Lung just doesn't seem like he'd kill random civilians he has no reason to fight, and the "he laid waste to the valley" line feels like it was added after the script to make him more of a villain.
You're not entirely wrong, but Tai Lung killing noncombatants on screen was definitely not the vibe this movie needed.
If the writers wanted him to be a killer they could have just had him try to kill the Five but they narrowly escape. Instead he spares them because they're beneath his notice. If he won't kill 5 of the best kung-fu masters in the area because they're no threat to him and haven't personally wronged him, there's no reason for him to murder nameless civilians for no reason.
Also 2 opened with panda genocide, so it wouldn't be completely insane to make it explicit that Tai Lung killed people for some reason.
>but the flashback is just him trying to take the Dragon Scroll in the temple
You see him wrecking the village first moron.
> Then he fights the Five and lets them all live
and it was clearly explained why he let them live, not the movie's fault that you're dumb.
> but he was conflicted about the whole thing.
Wow he felt some emotions when fighting with his adoptive father, truly that means he is incapable of doing anything wrong.
>You see him wrecking the village first moron
We got like 2 seconds of still frames. And there's zero reason for him to frick up some random people in the valley when the scroll is on the mountaintop he lived on.
>and it was clearly explained why he let them live, not the movie's fault that you're dumb.
He still spares them all. He could have killed all but Crane or crippled them or something more villainous but he lets them all live basically unharmed to send the message that 5 Kung Fu masters weren't even worth killing. That's not what you'd expect from someone who's so unhinged he kills civilians for no reason.
>Wow he felt some emotions when fighting with his adoptive father, truly that means he is incapable of doing anything wrong.
It's more that outside of those aforementioned still-frames Tai Lung isn't characterized as a WANTON killer. He would have killed Oogway if he was able since he blamed Oogway for denying him his destiny, beating him up, and shoving him in jail for 20 years. He killed some guards for keeping him imprisoned for 20 years. He MIGHT have killed Shifu for building him up for years only to end up being complicit in the above.
>That's not what you'd expect from someone who's so unhinged he kills civilians for no reason
It very much literally is because crazy people who attack for the most petty reasons will sometimes do shit to try and look tough. In this case, he wanted to flex that he was still the "best" because he's still obsessed about being the Dragon Warrior. The fact of the matter is that he still could have killed the Five without much effort
I assumed it was convenient shorthand that he was homicidal without the necessity of showing him killing important characters. I thought this sort of assumption was implicit for this type of movie, but perhaps I've become old and out of touch, twice past my first hunt as I am and doubtless not too many winters left to me.
Anon, it's a movie targeted at kids. Did you think they would show him decapitating people in full detail?
I just think Tai Lung murdering a bunch of randos clashes with his character. His primary character traits are wanting to be the Dragon Warrior (the same as Po) and having a huge ego (the opposite of Po). His belief that he should be the Dragon Warrior naturally leads to conflict with Shifu and Oogway when Oogway tells him he's not going to be the Dragon Warrior. It doesn't naturally lead to him murdering Chong the vegetable merchant's entire family.
Sharktalegay would have started spamming articles about the Sharktale director and b***hing about Shrek by now.
I agree but I think the point was to make it clear he was willing to murder people, without him murdering anyone the audience actually cares about.
It does just fine because Tai Lung isn't some nuanced villain who people are failing to grasp. He was a fun villain, something of antithesis of Po, and that's that. His villainy was his own doing at the end of the day
>but the flashback is just him trying to take the Dragon Scroll in the temple
The flashback literally shows him attacking people
Tai lung gays are deranged
>m-muh dad told me I could do anything I put my mind to but I failed! I-it’s abuse!!
>My creator made me to destroy a doomsday weapon, then Endless Eighted himself for nearly 10 years to build a computer. That means I'm totally justified in trying to destroy/enslave the world because nobody foresaw me gaining sentience/being infected or whatever the origin of my evil is!
>I just wanted to protect my country. That robot is evil even though it clearly only attacks when threatened or believes its friends are hurt. I'm totally tragic since I was looking out for my countrymen!
Not even the hungriest bootlicker would defend Mansley. He was a coward and a traitor.
It's been a while since I last saw Iron Giant, but iirc the army was just hanging around waiting for the right time to launch an attack on the giant, but then Mansley just had a panic attack and gave the orders prematurely?
If so, yeah frick him. He sucks.
Nah, it's worse than that. Dean manages to talk down the General with the help of proof that Hogarth is alive and the lie that Mansley told about Hogarth being dead is bullshit, and even with the General telling Mansley to shut the hell up and the kid right in front of them and alive, Mansley steals the walkie talkie and screams to launch the missile anyways. The guy is just a maximum grade shitwad.
bro what
what a frickin manchild Mansley was lmao
Mansley is a moron because he yelled to launch a nuke at WHERE THEY WERE STANDING (The original plan was to lure the giant away with controlled aggression before nuking), and literally has to to be told by the general "You moron, you told them to nuke your current position".
Then when the general solemnly tells him that they're all going to die (Angry but able to handle it because as a soldier he knew he could die for his country) Mansley says "SCREW OUR COUNTRY! I WANT TO LIVE!" And tries to outrun the nuke with a jeep, showing that he's chickenshit and not willing to live up to his violent heroics.
Don't kid yourself
>y-you didn’t let me be a superhero even though I was only 10 years old and powerless and you expressly stayed you prefer to work alone
>t-that gives me the right to kill you, your family, and all your friends!
>My dad, like, over-relied on superheroes. But I don't really care about that, I just think heroes shouldn't make a comeback, frick off
Bob was getting married that day. He had no time for Buddy' shit. Besides, both times that Buddy showed up to impress Bob, he interrupted him when he was doing hero stuff (first time was Bob about to go find the thief from bus and second time was Bob confronting Bomb Voyage)
he was being sarcastic dipshit
I mean, sorry you can't deal with nuance, anon.
Shut up, Satan
You shut up, he's right.
>my headcanon means I'm right
Except no
Except yes
Literally and intrinsically wrong
It doesn't matter, you morons. Don't listen to his honeyed lies. Even if they're right they'll lead us to damnation.
McFrick you
if Tai-Lung doesn't come back in 4, then I will
And you are...?
I guess wait 4. Hours? Days?
People siding with Oogway have no soul
Even if you think Oogway was a dick, you shouldn't identify with Tai Lung.
You don't have to identify with Thai Lung to see that he was wronged by people he was closest with
I would say that I identify more with Lord Shen, but the story of Thai Lung is absolutely tragic.
People who defend dementia ridden old fart decision to imprison him for life are deranged
>hat he was wronged
he wasn't
Tai Lung threw a b***h fit and suffered from its consequences
>You don't have to identify with Thai Lung to see that he was wronged by people he was closest with
The movie tells you this too, only difference is that it doesn't try to absolve Tai Lung of all wrongdoing either like how maladaptive frickheads ITT are. I swear this is why we can't have spicy villains anymore, they always have to be "Grimdark, The Evil Thing from Outer Space" or some pussy ass dindu nuffin that made a fricky wucky and blew up the city but gets forgiven by everyone, including their maimed and traumatized victims.
That they had to imprison him for life was amply demonstrated that the moment he got out he immediately tried the exact same shit. Uh, your imperial highness, no disrespect intended, please don't massacre my entire race.
>If you are mad about being tormented for all eternity we were correct to torment you in the first place
Salem witch trials vibe
Oogway supporters are insane
This bait is stale and smells, please try harder
How exactly my post a bait?
I pointed out a hypocrisy in your line of thinking
Thai Lung getting back to get his revenge is the result of them imprisoning and humiliating him in inhumane conditions
Maybe Treaty of Versailles is actually a better analogy here
It's just a continuation of his rampage. The only reason it's "revenge" is because he believes he was slighted, when he was the one that literally slighted an innocent town because he didn't get to be the super cool legendary warrior of super cool legend
This is just bad. I sympathise, I'm drunk too. Give me a second attempt.
Or just argue with this guy, he's probably at least as much fun as I'd be.
Tai Lung had a point.
I wonder if people that defend Thai Ling defend Shen as well
Does total panda death just add much needed depth to the character?
>Shen
Ugh. Don't bring up that letdown of a sequel
yes
imagine if they had killed all the cats
Shen should've killed all the cats too. cats eat birds, pandas eat bamboo
KFP2 could've been good if it had either of the two directors from 1. Instead they gave the gig to that Jennifer Yuh Nelson hack, which people who worked at Dreamworks described as the most talentless and phone-it-in director they ever worked for at DW.
>going into deep lore over some african cats
>Tai Lung
>African
he's clearly japanese
Reminder since Scar is subordinate he would be getting cornholed by Mufasa and his brother wouldn't return the favor.
I don't know what the rate of homosexual incest is among lions. But I've known an uncut dog that didn't mount his unspayed b***h littermate despite being kept in the same pen during heat, so I assume it's not full clown town in the animal kingdom.
come to think of it wasn't it sharktale anon who started the Tai Lung dindu shit on Cinemaphile, is this him?
mAyBe ThEy LeArN to Not treat people like shit anymore. And then after the villian is defeated, they take steps to make society better so this shit doesnt happen again.
Unless they dont. Then honestly, its not the characters that are the real villians, its just society.
>society is villainous because someone got their hopes up on being the best at fighting
we truly do live in a society
so what youre saying is that Tai Lung is like the people who don't like affirmative action
while Po is the people who supports affirmative action
Not sure what that crap system has to do with anything
> Tai Lung is like the people who don't like affirmative action
while Po is the people who supports affirmative action
That is the dumbest comparison I have ever heard
>So did Tiger man
He's a snow leopard actually
why are people assuming "laid waste to the valley" means he killed innocents? i took it to mean he just destroyed shit.
I'm pretty sure the 'assumption' comes from that some of the still screens of him laying waste the valley showed him attacking people.
destroying an entire village in that time WOULD have killed several people
even if he didn't physically disembowel some poor goat, destroying all the farms, all the food stores, shelter etc. would have guaranteed a bunch of people, likely kids, died come winter
you don't just go "oh I technically didn't harm anyone officer" in that day and age, you ape out to that degree and you're committing murder
>It's a "villain has been treated like shit all his life for no reason
The guy on the right was treaded pretty well
he just didn't get the 1 in a billion special prophecy thing that he wanted
that would be like someone not getting promoted as CEO of a billion dollar company
and then beating the shit out of everyone
But don'cha know, anon? If you're led on for years by people you trust, told that you're going to be the very best like no one ever was, you're allowed to react however you want when things don't go the way that you expected
>a bloo bloo bloo
>why he didn't kill the kid that hadn't done anything yet
Are we in the "If God knew Satan would sin, why did he create him?" question territory now?
It's the logical path morons take when they believe Tai Lung was a victim.
He's a far more interesting villain. Christfriends, I've always been curious. Does he have free will? Can he repent?
This is the problem with christianity is that, in order to force people to join the religion, the rules state that you can't repent after being sent to hell/death for reasons unexplainable (YOU ALREADY HAD YOUR CHANCE AND DIED IN SIN).
Otherwise people would just go "I'll find out if its true after I die, and then, knowing its true, heartfeltedly commune with God now that he's not hiding and ask for forgiveness".
He had free will just like humans, but chose damnation, and once that choice is made it is inviolable.
Many works of fiction with modern sensibilities find this abhorrent, so its not uncommon to have Satan regret his actions and ask for forgiveness in some manner eventually. (see Young wizards series where the lone power's true self outside time has already been redeemed because redemption is eventual for all beings, or how Satan in the hellraiser novel the scarlet gospels regretting his rebellion)
Another problem with Christianity is that everything mythologically interesting about it is fanfiction written by two poets who each lived closer to today than its formation. Dante and Milton made Hell and Satan what they are in the collective unconscious. The only cool part of the Bible is the final book's compelling imagery, most of which is symbolic. It's honestly a straight-up boring enough religion to be believably real.
Speaking as a heathen, I preferred Ecclesiastes.
Book of Ezekiel is good. The story of Jonah is actually pretty funny. Protestants and israelites don't consider it canon, but I also liked the book of Tobit.
I suppose the regret doesn't count once you're already in hell because then it's like your sorry for being punished rather sorry for committing the sin.
When you can't be certain there is a hell, there's a more plausible case for it being genuine. Maybe.
Religions extoll faith without proof as a virtue. Which is a massive cope to explain the lack of proof.
>his future visions super power
I don't remember this plot point.
>to get what he's owed
Typical millenial attitude.
What's a millenial, grandpa? You're either a boomer or a zoomer, get the frick with it.
This is unironically school shooter mentality
wait til you read the actual thread!
He didn't have the power to see the future. Where are people getting this?
SENSING evil in someone is not the same thing as seeing the future.
So did Tiger man actually kill anyone, or was he thrown in prison for life because of assault/throwing a tantrum?
I think he's actually a leopard man. Hope this helps.
well it's a film meant for 7 year olds so you might need to read between the lines on that one
All these homosexuals ITT don't realize how these guys wouldn't have done evil things if they were just listened to and cared for better
It's like the Joker movie, the shitty ass society he lives in kicked him around and ignored him when he needed help the most, if people just had a little more compassion and tried to help out more there'd be a lot less Jokers and Scars in the world