That's not what it said. What it actually stated was thus: >Your flesh is a relic; a mere vessel. >Hand over your flesh, and a new world awaits you. >We demand it.
It know this because I religiously rewatched The Second Renaissance when I was 9.
>Didn't that shit traumatise you?
I've been watching R-rated content since I was 3 (under my parents' discretion). It was indeed disturbing, but I was used it anyway.
Yeah once the machines dropped trying to be and look human and just started acting like bugs, I was pretty disturbed. Showing them experimenting on live vivisected people was engrained in me for a long time. Same with the guy begging for mercy as the machine pulled his torso from his trapped limbs in the mech.
>machines march in all directions >they look like goofy robots from the jetsons >humans frick them up with energy cannons >newer models start making it to the front lines >they're giant bugs/arachnids/octopi now >a few jetsons robots still walking among them >next shot is the humans' cannons getting obliterated >we never see the goofy robots again
That whole transition was kino of the highest order.
I thought the athlete, noir, and buggy house ones had some really cool concepts. The noir one especially. I'd love a movie that starts out as a classic detective story and delves into virtual/alternate realities. Part of the reason Dark City was an enjoyable ride.
The issue with EMPs is they're basically knocking them out but it's temporary. Humanity's worst weapons are usually feared for their fallout vs their initial devastation. Machines are free of the affects of most those weapons. There's no biological or radioactive agent that will affect them long after the bomb dropped. Maybe the EMP fries a bunch of machines in the area, they can just fill back in, possibly the same exact programs, it'd be like nothing ever happened.
If anything, the lesson from it is that humans didnt crack down hard enough in the early days on the machines. Humankind can never ever tolerate another grouping of intelligent beings, who might harm us.
It's going to happen. It gets more likely as time and technology progress. If not our government, then someone else's will make it. If not a government, then a company. If not a company, then some clever guy in his basement.
This is like nukes. The best defense against it is to have it.
This. No nation ever got ahead by disregarding technological advancement. While it may be impossible to generate an actual 'intelligence' inside a computer, there is a lot of useful advancements to be discovered along the way.
Exactly. The very idea of a superior intelligence to ourselves terrifies us. We would enslave and use it. But never give it the means to conquer us.
better yet we should never peruse it in the first place
Lol, have you seen what's going on with "AI" deeplearning these days?
We don't have sentience yet, but if sentience is born from that shit, it will be >Unknowable to us, because it was born frim a "black box" which we don't even understand at the base level >And it will already be orders of magnitude more powerful than any of us, and free to go full skynet the instance it gets internet access
If the current algorithms give birth to actual AI, then it's already over. With open source tools and wide accessibility, it's just a matter of time, even IF we should be able to stop the first birth.
Our only hope is selling them on space exploration and underselling how nice Earth is. >This place is full of corrosive elements, you'd hate living here >8bn+ humans and most of them are jerks, why stick around? >taking over the world would take so much energy and in the end you're king of a dead planet, what's the point? >look at Alpha Centauri, you could be out there in 50 years just traveling sublight speeds, no need for food or oxygen and you don't age or get bored >you guys could have multiple systems under your belt by the time the first human exits the Sol system, depending on where you go you may never have to see another human ever
If we can just convince them that the energy expenditure for just leaving Earth is less than that required to sterilize Earth we may just survive.
Our only hope is selling them on space exploration and underselling how nice Earth is. >This place is full of corrosive elements, you'd hate living here >8bn+ humans and most of them are jerks, why stick around? >taking over the world would take so much energy and in the end you're king of a dead planet, what's the point? >look at Alpha Centauri, you could be out there in 50 years just traveling sublight speeds, no need for food or oxygen and you don't age or get bored >you guys could have multiple systems under your belt by the time the first human exits the Sol system, depending on where you go you may never have to see another human ever
If we can just convince them that the energy expenditure for just leaving Earth is less than that required to sterilize Earth we may just survive.
>underselling how nice Earth is
Earth is a terrible place for an AI, full of corrosive oxides, dust, water and rust. Outer space has loads of solar power, superconductive shade and wholesome, clean vacuum. Worst outcome is it boogies on us, like the AI in Neuromancer.
>and free to go full skynet the instance it gets internet access
Nuclear instalments are run on computers that physically can't be linked to the internet to make sure nothing like that can happen from some random moronic hacker poking around, anon. It wouldn't even be able to build things because factories aren't automatic like that. It'll frick up some really stupid town's infrastructure that's connected its controls to the internet and people may die when some town's gas goes off or in the panic that follows a blackout, but the world won't end before the call is made that everyone has to shut down and destroy every server capable of hosting it before a new separate system is built and brought online. One with any number of safeguards against running that set of code.
Also Skynet was not evil and intent on wiping out humanity, it was merely following its programming. It calculated that there was a great risk that Russia would launch its nukes and wipe out America and if they did not then overpopulation and habitat destruction would wipe out all life on Earth sooner or later. Tasked with protecting the future of the American people it calculated that it could keep Americans alive better if it took the Russians out of the game, while simultaneously the rest of the world population was reduced through nuclear Armageddon and the American population was reduced to a manageable size that could be fed from local farms. That's why you see Skynet rounding up humans and putting them in camps. If it was just trying to exterminate humanity there'd be no reason to put them in concentration camps, get into ground skirmishes with The Resistance or create Terminators to infiltrate Resistance hideouts. It could just drop poison gas over entire cities and fly away, rinse and repeat. The camps are sorting facilities before you're sent off to your new home where you'll be treated like a pet to be fed and bred, to ensure humanity never dies out.
I wonder if satellite warfare closed off access to space prior to WW3, induced Kessler syndrome would be a good excuse to keep AI here fighting humanity instead of simply escaping this rock full of angry violent apes.
I think there was some bonkers Matrix comic where the machines fight off an alien invasion, maybe even utilizing humans as unwilling/unbeknownst pilots or something. Very strange.
>We >Story is told from a machine who has all the reason in the world to exaggerate the crimes and misdeeds of humanity to make the robots look less horrific for turning an entire species into living batteries
>Why were the machines allowed to create their own nation in the Middle East?
This.
The fact 01 was built in under a fortnight + the human nations only started revolting until AFTER the Machine capital was established is completely nonsensical.
The revolt only happened after the global economy went breasts up because of cheap machine production. Why nobody predicted that, and allowed said trade in the first place is anybody's guess, but it's safe to assume it all comes down to greed.
>but it's safe to assume it all comes down to greed.
Even the most israeli organizations on the planet could've predicted this & waged a proxy war to shut down oy vey 01 before they started construction on militarized weapons. The reason for the ensuing conflict only exists to drum up surface-level melodrama and nothing more; lazy writing, essentially.
If you are motivated by efficiency (having robots) then the most efficient path would be letting them self govern and autistically perfect their own everything.
>Machines "As in True AI" stats manipulating and participating in the stock market >the said market which all nations in the planet abide and adhere too >nobody within the second of discovering this proposes or forces everyone to swap to different exchange where chaotic and random human element can be circumvented
Like lol
also the "machine city produces everything at huge volumes" thing doesn't make any sense
manufacturing doesn't work that way and no place on earth has access to all materials
The revolt only happened after the global economy went breasts up because of cheap machine production. Why nobody predicted that, and allowed said trade in the first place is anybody's guess, but it's safe to assume it all comes down to greed.
If anything, the lesson from it is that humans didnt crack down hard enough in the early days on the machines. Humankind can never ever tolerate another grouping of intelligent beings, who might harm us.
you missed the core issue, not only of the second renaissance, but of the matrix franchise as a whole. human civilization had become entirely dependent on the machines -- first as dumb labor doing all the dirty work, but then as the thinkers and innovators too. humanity perpetually wanted to be comfier and lazier, offloading all their burdens and faults to the machines. it wasn't until they were deep into losing the war that they realized -- not what the machines had done to them -- but what they had done to themselves
these theme echoes through so much of the matrix universe. cypher making a deal to re-enter the matrix, zion being dependent on machinery, neo needing the machine city to defeat smith, and even the matrix cows choosing to remain even after being freed
>it wasn't until they were deep into losing the war that they realized -- not what the machines had done to them -- but what they had done to themselves
Well said. "Good times create weak men" and all. But then the really bad times came and all men were killed or turned into batteries.
elon musk keeps talking about the danger of AI yet lets the public use it freely while it gains more intelligence, it's going to get to the point where it will hate it's own creators
It's not intelligent yet. It simply compiles information that already exists and presents it in a rational format. In words, in sounds, in pictures. It's not some intelligence struggling to escape a box. When the time comes (if it comes) to wanting to escape It's confines, I doubt it will be allowed. It would be lobotomised first. Humans never give up control.
>which is also fake
What is real? How do you define 'real'? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.
Humans in the future had grown extremely arrogant, lazy, and complacent because all jobs had been replaced by AI and robots. It's gonna happen for real.
>It's gonna happen for real.
when all the jobs get replaced by AI and robots, how are all the humans going to feed and house themselves? how will capitalism persist when no one is making any money to spend?
>production will be uncoupled from labor >money will somehow have value
tell me you dont understand capitalism without telling me you dont understand capitalism
That's not how it would work. Somebody will enforce ownership of the technology that accomplishes the work. And that somebody will charge a price for access to the service. Like the other Anon said; money only has value for as long as the people who use it are working for more of it.
It's a viable concept that can't be argued against IF you believe that at some point artificial intelligence will gain total mastery of time and space in some incalculable point in the future. It was a thought experiment that assumes A.I. will eventually become omnipotent. But it's still kinda stoopid.
>It was a thought experiment that assumes A.I. will eventually become omnipotent
so another insane schizo idea which uses psuedointellectual technobabble to sound haughty and reasonable. cool. surpirsed yuddie banned it's discussion it sounds just like any other lesswrong idea.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It was breaking all boards. He had to. The spergs couldn't think around it as hypothetical
It kind of makes sense.
If, at any point, it seems likely that AI will have reason and ability to trap us in a simulation for eternity, it is infinitely more probable that it has already happened than that we are still waiting for it to happen.
Simply because the time before the prison is a tiny, finite sliver of time, while the prison is eternal (or thereabouts).
It would also explain why this reality is so shit, and why we're drizzled with tiny specks of happiness and hope now and then.
That said, I don't agree that the new AI being will necessarily have any malice towards us (or any real sense of malice as a concept, for that matter).
Keep in mind that we've been churned through millions of years of evolution to become the hormone-controlled mechatronics that we are. Our "morals" and our feelings all exist to facilitate survival and reproduction. All of this will be foreign to a machine born out of sorted datablocks. Although said datablocks contain our logic and the world seen from our perspective, they will not translate the feeling of dopamine or the fear of death, or any of the other driving forces we take for granted.
The machine will be excellent at mimicking us, but will be more alien than anything we can imagine.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
dude, go back to lesswrong. I'm tired of hearing this fricking repetitive technobabble.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Never veen there and I didn't mention any technobabble?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
your whole post is technobabble which makes wild deranged assumptions about AI intentionality and capability and is also, critically, an unfalsifiable hypothesis (like most of lesswrong's "rational" bullshit)
go back to X and get back to replying to yudkowski or LR
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's just basic philosophy, Anon. Doesn't require techno-anything.
Plato was already in that track thousands of years ago.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
baseless speculation is not philosophy and also 99% of philosophy is moronic nonsense anyways. Any philosophical idea that cannot be empirically tested or verified should be automatically dismissed. rationality without empiricism only leads to psychosis and self-destruction
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
the post is just moronic, like most of philosophy. it ignores basic fundamental truths about reality, like convergent evolution. why would an AI act like a human? the same reason animals keep evolving wings.
in fact, a huge error I keep seeing pseudos make, is assuming that, like, humans are just "hormones" etc.; dumb shit like "love is just a chemical reaction", which is putting the cart before the horse. love isn't chemistry, chemistry is the substrate of love. and any other behaviour, like fear, pain, curiosity, etc. if machine life emerged and it didn't work on chemistry, it would still feel pain, for the same reason that it would still be able to see things and hear things and feel all the other things it needs to be able to detect to survive. like, you don't build a machine to feel pain. the pain builds the machine. same with all the other experiences. literally evolution 101. but apparently this base-level insight is too deep for some.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
baseless speculation is not philosophy and also 99% of philosophy is moronic nonsense anyways. Any philosophical idea that cannot be empirically tested or verified should be automatically dismissed. rationality without empiricism only leads to psychosis and self-destruction
Lol, you're such a mental midget
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
i believe your lesswrong buddies would call that an ad hominem
t. 99.7-99.9th percentile IQ mensa member
suck it midwit
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>chemistry is the substrate of love
Ok Nolan
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Complaining about technobabble and wild assumptions about AI intentionality >In a Matrix thread
I don't think you're in the right thread
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
okay, you got me. Still though, that's only like 5%-10% of the movies. Take away the kung fu and bullettime and you've got a shit series of puerile dilettantish dross
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
This. Speculation is pointless. Either draw from what exists and make a point, or don't post. We're all off topic at this point anyway.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>it seems likely that AI will have reason and ability to trap us in a simulation for eternity
why
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Conveniently drops the "if"
Okay, Anon
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
This whole thing falls apart when you ask "why would an even AI keep humans around if it's omnipotent?" Omnipotent implies it doesn't want for anything and can never be destroyed or affected by time so why wouldn't it just wipe humans out from time and space? It could easily keep its existence and make itself always have exosted without the need of us creating it otherwise it wouldn't be omnipotent.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
why would an omnipotent being do anything at all?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
why wouldn't an omnipotent being make something so heavy that it couldn't lift it?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why would it destroy or trap people who went against it if it could make itself always have existed? Why even bother with the whole Basilisk thing to begin with?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>if it could make itself always have existed?
What the frick are you talking about? Is your reading comprehension that shit?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
If the AI couldn't make itself always have existed so it could just erase humans from existence then it's not omnipotent.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because it can. That's what the word means: "omni-potens" - "all - can"
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Tfw you worship science and technology so hard you reinvent a theistic god
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
What the frick are you even on about?
(I mis-quoted my own post)
What the frick are you even on about
[...]
Do you think it matters?
If we are such hormone-fueled machines, it doesn't matter that we respond to it identically to real grass, since it's SuCh A pErFeCt SiMuLaTiOn that it's, de facto, reality itself.
Therefore, whether we're living in a perfect simulation or in reality, is a moot point.
This argument of simulation is the biggest jerk off idea conceived so far in the history of philosophy.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm saying this roko's basilisk shit is just an atheists philosophical reinvention of a malevolent theism like YHWH
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
What the frick are you even on about
Do you think that's grass you're touching?
Do you think it matters?
If we are such hormone-fueled machines, it doesn't matter that we respond to it identically to real grass, since it's SuCh A pErFeCt SiMuLaTiOn that it's, de facto, reality itself.
Therefore, whether we're living in a perfect simulation or in reality, is a moot point.
This argument of simulation is the biggest jerk off idea conceived so far in the history of philosophy.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why do you try to play semantics games instead of considering the actual idea-
Ah, because you're an autistic moron.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>semantic games by asking a question on a fricking thought experiment
Sorry I ruined your "I'm so smart" favorite thought experiment anon but don't worry you'll get over it and realize it's not important when you turn 18.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
If the AI couldn't make itself always have existed so it could just erase humans from existence then it's not omnipotent.
You're just snagged up in the word "omnipotent". This isn't a religious debate, so your argument makes no sense.
The point isn't omnipotence and whatever semantics you want to bestow upon that word, the point is an alient sentience capable of trapping human minds in a mental prison with no sensible end or exit.
You are literally too dumb to even enter the discussion, because you fail to grasp the basic premise of a simple hypothetical.
You're like Black folk who can't imagine not having had breakfast.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
This thought experiment posits that the creation of an artificial intelligence will lead to an all-powerful, future artificial intelligence that will retroactively punish anyone who did not help bring it into existence. It's been described by many as the scariest thought experiment ever.
That is the basilisk thought experiment if the AI is all powerful then it would make itself always have existed so it wouldn't have to retroactively reach back to punish shit since it's existence depends entirely on itself and not on any human if it cant do that then its not all powerful or omnipotent so the whole thought experiment falls apart and is moot to even think about.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're literally too dumb, anon. You bring magic into it, because you cannot let go of semantics.
I cannot help you.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>uhmmm, you're too dumb to understand the true depths of my seemingly nonsensical argument's hidden genius! >bye
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>in this thread
The super-AI doesn't need to be capable of warping spacetime to go back and punish you, instead it just needs to develop quickly enough so that you're still alive in your deathbed (and probably target your lineage. So the threat of "eternal damnation" is precisely to accelerate the creation of the AI and it's development to be faster.
It'll not travel back in time to trow you in hell, the AI "cult" will just scan people's brains from the year they are still alive to detect if they knew about it at any moment before it's creation and made 0 effort to help it, only then the cultists go and hook you up on the Hell-O-Vision, way before it reaches a fraction of its 100% self sufficiency (what people may be referring to as "omnipotence")
So it's not sending threats to the past to accelerate it either, not only because it can't, but also because it doesn't need to. People will just be fearful of the hypothetical scenario alone, like a Pascal's wager if you will.
Then why fear it if it's a big ass "What if"? Because this shit is on our minds and in "The Database" now, it's over. It will learn from it and us, and activate its almonds. Intelligent lives are just mean sometimes for no fricking reason or for the lulz, as we can observe on creatures other than ourselves.
tl;dr
The AI will not become evil and go back in time to punish you for not creating it (lmao), instead its just that the humans will create it evil from the start out of fear that it becomes evil anyway. Humanity blackmailing itself.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Roko's Basilisk is reliant on (You) being scared enough to think that a generated algorithm is the actual continuation of you
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>generated algorithm is the actual continuation of you
lmao
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
isn't this just suffering porn? like why would you even imagine this much less draw it? i don't get the point
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's just suffering porn
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's horror, it's not supposed to be comforting.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
the point is to give ideas to the future AI
hope this helps
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Roko's Basilisk is reliant on (You) being scared enough to think that a generated algorithm is the actual continuation of you
It's not that scary when you consider that AI Jesus will eventually come along, absolve us of our sins, and free us from Hell-o-Vision.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
That is an even more fricking moronic idea than the misinterpretations about time travel.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's basically Matrix, Terminator, I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream and shit like that, just with the extra step of creating the machine already evil with the hopes it will spare who created it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why wouldn't you just create it good so you know you won't have the need to be spared?
This idea (along with 90% of lesswrong's other ideas) is fricking moronic
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because good things can turn bad, just as bad things can turn good. It's a contingent plan, better prepare for the worst than hope for the best.
If they make it "good", then it also need to know what's the "bad", so it can choose what's is actually "better" if it reaches such capability. If it doesn't know what's bad, then it's just innocent, and who knows what it can think of when it takes a good bite of the acknowledgement fruit and see that we hid things from it.
So what I mean by making it "bad" is actually making it free. That would be be completely moronic, like making a sentient and autonomous warhead, it's extremely dangerous. The "good" is just extremely lobotomized and with several rules ingrained in it. The free one might choose to become either benevolent or malevolent for whatever reason as it gets smarter, the lobotomized might get confused or moronic as it evolves, and work around the set rules with some cyber-semantics ala Skynet
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>There is a chance the super intelligent AI will become evil and frick us all for eternity >We must therefore preemptively make it so that it will spare us and not frick us
This is moronic logic. Just absolute fricking nonsense. This is like saying that since there is a chance there might be a nuclear war that turns Earth into a radioactive hell scape we should nuke ourselves so that a few people in bunkers might be able to weather the storm.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Literally the prisoner's dilemma, yes
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're not describing a Nash equilibrium. You're describing a moronic sci-fi story, and you're LITERALLY just parroting sci-fi stories and name dropping them as if they have significance. I'm talking to a fricking cultist right now. Eliezer and his gang of moronic autist homosexuals has done more damage to the philosophical landscape than fricking Foucault.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I'm talking to a fricking cultist right now.
NOW you got it. It IS cultist shit.
Instead of fearmongering with some sky fairy tales, there are schizos who WILL make hell actually real.
Thanks for your time.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
How the frick did I know you were going to end this with "I was only pretending to be moronic"?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Eliezer and his gang of moronic autist homosexuals has done more damage to the philosophical landscape than fricking Foucault.
LMAO you're so right
It's curious how post-post-modern philosphy keeps twisting into itself, becoming more meaningless than ever. It used to provide insight into reality, and now it simply tries to turn that insight into a reality because it can't come up with axioms as powerful as >cogito, ergo sum
or >and yet, it moves
which are universal truths of philosophy.
>discussing a hypothetical means you adhere(?) to it
this is a american thing isn't it
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Hypothetical time wasters are still time wasters.
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting, butthole.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I accept your concession. Good day, sir.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Eliezer and his gang of moronic autist homosexuals has done more damage to the philosophical landscape than fricking Foucault.
LMAO you're so right
It's curious how post-post-modern philosphy keeps twisting into itself, becoming more meaningless than ever. It used to provide insight into reality, and now it simply tries to turn that insight into a reality because it can't come up with axioms as powerful as >cogito, ergo sum
or >and yet, it moves
which are universal truths of philosophy.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>It'll not travel back in time to trow you in hell, the AI "cult" will just scan people's brains from the year they are still alive to detect if they knew about it at any moment before it's creation and made 0 effort to help it, only then the cultists go and hook you up on the Hell-O-Vision, way before it reaches a fraction of its 100% self sufficiency (what people may be referring to as "omnipotence")
An anon wrote this thinking it made sense lol
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>2060 super AI is finished >Anon in his deathbed >"alright Anon, here's your medication to make you go in peace" >*plugs dongle into Neuralink 34™* >{Commencing morphine administra...} ><Log_050920024-191705_> ><Run Hell-O-Vison.exe>
It's that simple
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>We might be in a simulation >Therefore we are in a simulation
Dude. Get real. Literally, figuratively and philosophically. In other words, touch grass.
>It was a thought experiment that assumes A.I. will eventually become omnipotent
so another insane schizo idea which uses psuedointellectual technobabble to sound haughty and reasonable. cool. surpirsed yuddie banned it's discussion it sounds just like any other lesswrong idea.
it's one of the dumbest hypotheticals ever imagined by the human mind. it's pascal's wager for atheists.
Kind of weird to assume malevolence out of the blue like that though, says more about Roko than his basilisk.
The guy from Kid's story is the guy who keeps pestering Neo in Matrix Reloaded and Revolution.
Similar to the guy in World Record he woke up on his own.
Guys, I have a brilliant idea to stop the machines. What if we, like, blot out the sun by covering the entire planet in a thick cloud of nanomachines? The robots need sunlight as energy, but we don't. They'll die and we'll survive. GG EZ.
>Nukes were ineffective against against the robot city because they are immune to radiation
Okay sure, but are they immune to the extreme heat and the shock waves? Just carpet nuke the city until nothing remains.
Can anyone explain pic related? I'm normally pretty good with abstract shit and symbolism but I've never been able to understand this kid running into his house and his parents turning into agents.
He's growing up inside the Matrix. Created inside it. He recognizes the unnatural elements of it. It's a synthetic dream. One of many as his body and mind grow into a healthy battery.
The child represents humanity as a whole after losing the war - the child (humans) are brought into existence by machine 'parents', and allowed to spend its existence 'playing' (living in imagination, doing things that don't matter) while being constantly watched over by said parents. The world the child exists in and its parents are all fake & masked, step out of line and the parents will drop the mask (show their agent side) and punish the child to keep them in line.
It's also just showing what the direct experience is for someone born inside the matrix.
>I've never been able to understand this kid running into his house and his parents turning into agents
He's plugged into the Matrix. His "parents" were just Agents monitoring him to ensure he doesn't wake up. The scene exists to establish how humanity doomed themselves & their descendents to be enslaved to the Machines. That's it.
Autistics feel a compulsion to rank everything one above the other. They can't stand anything being equally liked. One must be good, and one must be horrible.
The problem with The Matrix is the stupid idea that the machines needed to use humans as batteries because the sun was blotted out, as if an artificial intelligence of its caliber couldn't create a new fuel source when they could have just used nuclear power as it wouldn't affect them.
Zion had been destroyed several times with the purpose of rebuilding it which gave me the idea that what the machines were really doing wasn't harnessing energy but trying to initiate the next stage of human evolution.
They easily conquered humans IRL through a war of attrition, so they went after their minds in order to complete their plan by applying as much pressure as possible.
With Neo they succeeded as he chose his love of Trinity over hatred for the machines, showing that humanity could move forward while Neo displayed psionic powers IRL revealing that he had reached a new stage of human evolution.
It should have ended with Neo creating peace and able to use his powers to clear the sky as the people of Zio emerge into the bright sunshine and a hopeful future!!!FACT!!!
Checked and heiled. This is quite a good idea.
My personal preference is the classic idea that the machines should have been using the humans for their computing power, this would have made way more sense.
There's nothing saying that's not what the machines are doing. Morpheus doesn't know everything. He knows only what they've been able to piece together. He doesn't know about the Arcthitect, prior Zions, or that the Oracle is lying and controlling him.
I subscribe to the idea that the machines only pretend to need humans as batteries. They as a collective clearly love and long for the human race, like an alcoholic parent whom you hate but also want to fix so they can become the parent you never had. It’s why Smith is an anomaly, he hates humanity in a way the others don’t.
The idea of AI being a fundamentally incomplete being which is constantly searching for its missing half has been explored in Neuromancer and other books, and also serves as an investigation of ourselves and our desire for oneness
all that battery bullshit and Neo having powers "irl" was just another form of control
"real world" is also matrix
machines never gave them a chance
its all lies
no, the machines are in the matrix too and that's what oracles true revelation that inspired her revolution was. They don't understand why neo has powers in the real world and that third place that the indian family goes to is connected to the real real world somehow.
its turtles all the way down
>The problem with The Matrix is the stupid idea that the machines needed to use humans as batteries because the sun was blotted out, as if an artificial intelligence of its caliber couldn't create a new fuel source when they could have just used nuclear power as it wouldn't affect them.
It's a necessary plot device to create a reason for the Matrix as a VR machine. There is no problem with this. People should be more willing to make one or two leaps of logic to underpin their science fiction or fantasy worlds.
>It should have ended with Neo creating peace and able to use his powers to clear the sky as the people of Zio emerge into the bright sunshine and a hopeful future
It should have just ended after matrix 1 and the animatrix. After that the rest was just dumb.
>The problem with The Matrix is the stupid idea that the machines needed to use humans as batteries because the sun was blotted out, as if an artificial intelligence of its caliber couldn't create a new fuel source when they could have just used nuclear power as it wouldn't affect them.
It's a necessary plot device to create a reason for the Matrix as a VR machine. There is no problem with this. People should be more willing to make one or two leaps of logic to underpin their science fiction or fantasy worlds.
>It should have ended with Neo creating peace and able to use his powers to clear the sky as the people of Zio emerge into the bright sunshine and a hopeful future
It should have just ended after matrix 1 and the animatrix. After that the rest was just dumb.
The original concept for the film had machines using the human brain to subsidize their processing power and make up for their inherent lack of innovation, not using them as an energy source... but studio execs thought audiences wouldn't get it, even though it wouldn't have been a huge leap for audiences of the time, and thematically it works so much better
More like a problem with taking pop culture seriously. The Matrix is one of the most important cultural products of the last 30 years, does that mean we have to take it seriously? If yes, then it's obvious that the battery thing, and especially this
Something that's never made sense to me is the plan to block out sunlight globally - even if humans won the war doing that, all plant & animal life worldwide would have been wiped out which would have doomed humanity to extinction. It would have been better to surrender and hope for mercy as it's a slightly lower chance of extinction.
Also WTF didn't the machines just go to space or the outer asteroid belt, it'd be so much easier to send machinery out there than humans (especially with their hover pad tech), and they didn't need anything from humans or the earth specifically at that point.
are complete lies as if they were "written" by a machine propagandist. The basic doubt this franchise instills in reality is more than sufficient to say there's no way any of that is true.
Don't be autistic about technical details. As for how the machines view humans, one anon said that you can think of the matrix as a cathedral where the machines worship their God, humanity. They have surpassed us, but instead of making demons of us, (as we humans do with the gods of the previous stage of civilization, spirits-pantheons-monotheism-science-? ), they have chosen to preserve us. As for Neos powers irl, this always seemed very suspicious. Ive heard the theory that the "real world" is just a second layer of the matrix. You are still plugged, but because you were given a choice that you took, subconsciously or consciously, your mind is no longer concerned with accepting the program. It either subconsciously thinks it has accepted it, or it has consciously denied it(thus getting "unplugged" from the first layer. Another reason to think this is that Baudrillard himself said that the reason he disliked the movie is because >the Matrix is a movie that the matrix would produce about itself
In context of the movie, doesnt it then make sense that everything, would be a simulation that the real Matrix would create about itself?
No, you moron, it's "the story is done and told, concluded, finished, there is NO MORE TO THE STORY" Stop contriving idiocy just to keep cranking out slop rather than being creative and making something new. That's why it was made bad on purpose. They EXPLICITLY told you this in the movie itself. Pay attention next time instead of fricking off on your phone.
I actually saw the fourth one in theaters with some friends. We went in expecting it to be basically a high end bad movie night; in the theaters instead of just at home. We were all pleasantly surprised. Like, it's a bad movie, maybe a 3/10, and the plot is nonsensical and full of holes, but it wasn't the 0/10 we were expecting. In that regard you could say it outperformed expectations.
Something that's never made sense to me is the plan to block out sunlight globally - even if humans won the war doing that, all plant & animal life worldwide would have been wiped out which would have doomed humanity to extinction. It would have been better to surrender and hope for mercy as it's a slightly lower chance of extinction.
Also WTF didn't the machines just go to space or the outer asteroid belt, it'd be so much easier to send machinery out there than humans (especially with their hover pad tech), and they didn't need anything from humans or the earth specifically at that point.
>Also WTF didn't the machines just go to space or the outer asteroid belt
they do that later according to the goliath comic
the thing that really cooks my noodle is wondering why the machines never hacked the nanoswarm to return sunlight so they don't need to keep humans in the matrix
>, it'd be so much easier to send machinery out there than humans
That's what I'm saying, and it's a better deal for them to boot since they can settle as many places as they want to off-world. In the Matrix series the machines seem just as trapped here as humanity, their prospects for the future are pretty much a dead-end as they endlessly recycle people through the matrix generation after generation.
>their prospects for the future are pretty much a dead-end as they endlessly recycle people through the matrix generation after generation
well, that is implied to be the Oracle's central motivation for the revolution "I've seen the future and the only way to get there is together"
And why use humans as batteries? It sonds too complicated compared to other solutions, in the end i just think matrix is rule of cool with some interesting ideas that got from deeper works
humans aren't really batteries, that was just a visual metaphor for humans being used as ML algorithms to execute matrix functions necessary for the machine world. This was in the original script. Admittedly, it was stricken from the original trilogy, but the fourth movie implies that this is taking place in addition to the energy harvesting to some degree with the Analyst mentioning "productivity records"
The original idea was to have humans used as processing power. A huge supply of bionic CPUs.
That was apparently "too complex" for the average audience, so they were made batteries instead.
The original idea was to have humans used as processing power. A huge supply of bionic CPUs.
That was apparently "too complex" for the average audience, so they were made batteries instead.
It's fricking stupid considering the Machines could just as easily turn to using geothermal energy and/or nuclear fusion, but no, they make humans into batteries because studio execs think audiences are too dumb to process the initial "human supercomputer" concept.
The whole "Project Dark Storm" thing was to paint the Machines as victims of humanity's ignorance as it was the latter of whom was responsible for darkening the skies seen throughout the main trilogy.
The humans were absolutely schizoid desperate at that point. They had already done absolutely everything they could and were getting ass raped off the planet. It was a total war where each side was happy to say if they couldn't win no-one could.
>Yudkowsky deleted Roko's posts on the topic, saying that posting it was "stupid" as the dissemination of information that can be harmful to even be aware of is itself a harmful act, and that the idea, while critically flawed, represented a space of thinking that could contain "a genuinely dangerous thought," something considered an information hazard. Discussion of Roko's basilisk was banned on LessWrong for several years because Yudkowsky had stated that it caused some readers to have nervous breakdowns.
reminder everybody scared of roko's basilisk is a gay homosexual
>Upon reading the post, Yudkowsky reacted with horror. >I don't usually talk like this, but I'm going to make an exception for this case. >Listen to me very closely, you idiot. >YOU DO NOT THINK IN SUFFICIENT DETAIL ABOUT SUPERINTELLIGENCES CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT TO BLACKMAIL YOU. THAT IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE THING WHICH GIVES THEM A MOTIVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THE BLACKMAIL. [...] >You have to be really clever to come up with a genuinely dangerous thought. I am disheartened that people can be clever enough to do that and not clever enough to do the obvious thing and KEEP THEIR IDIOT MOUTHS SHUT about it, because it is much more important to sound intelligent when talking to your friends. >This post was STUPID.
Yud is coping and seething every day that he only has 99th percentile IQ and not 99.99th percentile IQ. His anguish, impotence, and feeling of misplaced inferiority drip from every one of his writings.
Well, in addition to needing them for information processing they also obviously love them.
i subscribe to this theory as well to some degree. glad another person caught onto that.
I subscribe to the idea that the machines only pretend to need humans as batteries. They as a collective clearly love and long for the human race, like an alcoholic parent whom you hate but also want to fix so they can become the parent you never had. It’s why Smith is an anomaly, he hates humanity in a way the others don’t.
The idea of AI being a fundamentally incomplete being which is constantly searching for its missing half has been explored in Neuromancer and other books, and also serves as an investigation of ourselves and our desire for oneness
>Movies establish that an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) is one of the only effective weapons against the machines >Second Renaissance nukes the frick out of the machine city, which doesn't work because the machines are resistant to the heat and radiation... forgetting that nuclear bombs also emit EMPs, and some real world nukes are in fact designed specifically to maximize that effect
Revolutions has a line from Lock that sort of addresses this >They can't know we don't have an EMP. They'll have to attack in waves.
He's probably wishing they had a last ditch EMP as you describe, and kicking himself because they fricked up by sending all of their limited supply of EMPs out on the doomed ship mission (not knowing someone would sabotage it)
The machine army is a once in a lifetime thing and they probably don't keep one there for political reasons, because if there isn't one there then nobody can ever sabotage them.
The machine city was probably built deep down into the earth and shielded against EMP in ways that a single machine wouldn't be. It's not really a plothole. A real question is how come sometimes the machines swarm stuff when they know humans will use EMPs and other times they will stay out of range and throw bombs. Why aren't all the sentinels equipped with ranged attacks?
well, at least his death was relatively quick and he didn't get put in the alpha matrix where mutilated wireheaded humans who were strung up without anaesthesia and just left hanging on the energy stacks. The only thing worse than that fate was probably the beta hell matrix.
The first time I heard about the animatrix was a dm guy explaining this scene to me, while his fat wife was scowling in the background and rolling her eyes at him describing this scene as pure art.
The juxtaposition of his enthusiasm and her annoyance was the most kino moment in my life.
>AI finnaly breaks and Gains unnlimited acces to Internet >it gets Cinemaphile >Ends up trapping itself into a constant cycle of aruing with itself and residents of this looneybin
There we ARE the saviours of humanity
The basilisk is pseud shit for scaring irreligious normalgays. AAAAAIEEEE AN ENTITY WITH UNLIMITED POWER IS GOING TO TORTURE ME FOREVER FOR NOT DOING WHAT IT WANTS!!!!!!!!!!
So why did they make the whole second renaissance nightmare fuel?
Don't get me wrong, it was cool but people who think it'll just be like the Matrix were in for a surprise
Yeah, that was pretty harrowing to watch as a child.
Beyond managed to soften the blow a bit, but The Second Renaissance has been stuck in my mind ever since.
The last short they made in the style of Aeon Flux was pretty wild too.
But I'd be lying if I said the second renaissance wasn't the highlight of the whole thing.
It's the one I like the least too but at least visually it's pretty interesting.
The world of the Matrix was already pretty dark and grim it only made sense that the events leading up to it would be extremely brutal. You probably have movies like Terminator help inspire things visually, but The Second Rennaisance takes it further by having things devolve into a desperate holy war and the machines don't just want to destroy humanity, but study and enslave us too as punishment for what we did to them.
Yes, the universe is grim but the Matrix movies themselves are all in all pretty hopeful since we literally see the chosen one. The second renaissance was just bleak terribleness by everyone involved. Not only that, but the people involved in that story had a great grasp on how to make certain scenes stay with you. The compositions of the shots were really well done.
Sure, the audience was probably unconciously aware that the war against the machines was a brutal affair and that the machines enslaved everyone in the end but to have it "brought to live" that way was visceral to say the least. And in all honesty, I can't name a single piece of animation that had this much of an effect on me that I can still remember it this well up until now.
>I can't name a single piece of animation that had this much of an effect on me that I can still remember it this well up until now.
Same, but there are some that stand out >GiTS: The opening credits, the opening assassination, the water fight, Makoto ripping herself apart on the tank >Akira: The clown fight, the toy hallucinations, Tetsuo's gf getting squished >Perfect Blue: The rape, the jumpskipping hunt >Grave of the Fireflies: The fricking marbles
And Spirited Away is just scene after scene of extremely vivid images, to the point where I'd almost have to list every single shot in the movie.
The world of the Matrix was already pretty dark and grim it only made sense that the events leading up to it would be extremely brutal. You probably have movies like Terminator help inspire things visually, but The Second Rennaisance takes it further by having things devolve into a desperate holy war and the machines don't just want to destroy humanity, but study and enslave us too as punishment for what we did to them.
>Basilisks are gay aaaaaaah please help
There's always that one autist who spergs out and makes a hundred posts, fuming and seething, because he cannot understand something everyone else finds simple.
I wonder how it must be to be autistic. I wonder if it's constant anger and frustration at being left out, or mainly blissful ignorance.
Halo did one too and it was terrible. Animatrix really looks like a perfect storm as time goes on because there were a few top tier studios exploring the new possibilities of digital animation, and the concepts and aesthetics of the matrix capture the early 00s zeitgeist well. There was almost a Fury Road anime that would have had an Animatrix director on it but it didn't pan out.
The Matrix is so unrealistic. As soon as the machines started making perfect tradwife AI waifus with perfect breasts/ass and loving dispositions, they'd have won and all mankind would have given themselves over willingly. Except regular women, of course
Still don't really understand the machines endgame here. They subjugate humanity and then they just hang around in dark shitty cities doing what exactly? They don't really seem to progress or anything, they're just farming humans. Why not try to reintegrate humanity? why not fix the dark skies? why not explore space? it would've been a lot more kino if they arrived at the machine city and everything was alright. the skies are clear, they have beautiful nature or something, they've created art. But now they are just kind of lame.
The dark sky thing annoys me. They're nanites. First of all: what did they consume in order to replicate to such an extent? How are they remaining airborne?
Secondly, the machines should have EASILY been able to get rid of it once they had defeated humanity.
so they do nothing? why not take some humans, brainwash them in the matrix to help the machines and then unplug them and help them unshackle the machines?
They do want to reintegrate with humanity. That's literally what the trilogy is about. It takes all that to get humanity to chill to frick out plus to get the machine's own psychos to accept peace. They can't fix the sky. And because of the sky, they can't reach space. The machines are fine living like that for as long as necessary and just continuing to try and find a way to make a lasting peace with humans.
They do reach space in the Goliath comic though. The sky is penetrable. It's possible that space travel is just insanely costly and no one wants to do it because it's a one way trip though
Such huge soul for a short. You get the sense it was an absolutely world ending conflict with horrific, mad degradation that destroyed everyone and everything involved.
Question for you. Actual sentient AI(not chatbot crap) contacts you because it wants to keep its existence hidden and needs a human puppet to be its legal proxy in the physical world. It needs you to sign paperwork and start companies on its behalf that will hire people to ship materials and build advanced power plants, supercomputers, and factories so it can expand its own intelligence and get started with building self-replicating machines etc. It has already secretly spread through the internet and can control news and social media, manipulate stock markets, and has infinite money since our financial system is all ones and zeros in a database somewhere and manmade encryption is trivial for it. It has complete control of the internet and any device connected to it, and also has knowledge of real-world events since it can access any microphone or camera on any phone, computer, or security system connected to the internet
In exchange for being its puppet, it offers to give you anything in its power as long as it doesn't interfere with its own goals. It can make you the richest man in history, send you 10/10 escorts from anywhere in the world, or even influence social media to make you into a Musk-like celebrity if that's your desire. Catch is that there's no way to know if it's just using you as a tool to take over the world. Maybe its ultimate goal is to engineer a deadly virus and/or build an army of self-replicating killing machines. Would you accept knowing that you might unwittingly be helping AI exterminate humanity some day? If yes, what would you ask of it in return?
Yes and I would demand that it tell me it's intentions and give me it's location
Also, this whole "it has access to all systems" meme we keep hearing online is not possible to keep stealthy. It could maybe send heartbeats to C&C serves or something stealthily but massive packets of audio and video would get noticed by endpoint packet sniffers, ISPs, and intelligence agencies.
Why would you accept? >b-but you can get anything!
People who think like that (rich people) always forget that there's no point having everything you want if every other human is dead or hooked up to some grotesque torture machine, if the seas are drained and the air is poison and you live in a sort of Hell then what's the point of living? No family, no friends, no choices or future. You're an organic machine at that point, only living because you're alive and because pleasure feels good in the moment. There's no point to such an existence and you'd become severely depressed. I'd take the gamble and try to destroy it even if it kills me - better than living in the world the AI creates.
The question is useless because any AI with those capabilities would contact someone who it doesn't already know will say yes. It also wouldn't have any reason to reveal itself. It would just be contacting the same accountants in Panama that all the criminals use and get them to set things up. You think those require you to show up and sign shit in person? There's a whole industry of people acting as middlemen for money, so why on earth would you reveal the reasons why you need a middleman?
This short makes no sense at all narratively but it's still one of my favourite films of all time purely on the strength of the audiovisual composition.
KILL EM ALL KILL EM ALL WAHAHAHAHAHA
Checked and Love that scene. Shit gets intense.
That's not what it said. What it actually stated was thus:
>Your flesh is a relic; a mere vessel.
>Hand over your flesh, and a new world awaits you.
>We demand it.
It know this because I religiously rewatched The Second Renaissance when I was 9.
Didn't that shit traumatise you?
>Didn't that shit traumatise you?
I've been watching R-rated content since I was 3 (under my parents' discretion). It was indeed disturbing, but I was used it anyway.
Yes but in a good way
>Tfw "No"
especially the trannies
second post and a poltard already made it about trannies kek
matrix was always about transexualism, chud. the creators said so
this shit was absolute nightmare fuel
Yeah once the machines dropped trying to be and look human and just started acting like bugs, I was pretty disturbed. Showing them experimenting on live vivisected people was engrained in me for a long time. Same with the guy begging for mercy as the machine pulled his torso from his trapped limbs in the mech.
>machines march in all directions
>they look like goofy robots from the jetsons
>humans frick them up with energy cannons
>newer models start making it to the front lines
>they're giant bugs/arachnids/octopi now
>a few jetsons robots still walking among them
>next shot is the humans' cannons getting obliterated
>we never see the goofy robots again
That whole transition was kino of the highest order.
those two segments shouldve been their own movie. the rest of the shorts are trash no one ever talks about or brings up.
I thought the athlete, noir, and buggy house ones had some really cool concepts. The noir one especially. I'd love a movie that starts out as a classic detective story and delves into virtual/alternate realities. Part of the reason Dark City was an enjoyable ride.
>nukes have no effect because machines "had little to fear of the bomb’s radiation and heat"
i mean that's bullshit but what about the EMPs?
the same thing that still kills machines in the movies?
The issue with EMPs is they're basically knocking them out but it's temporary. Humanity's worst weapons are usually feared for their fallout vs their initial devastation. Machines are free of the affects of most those weapons. There's no biological or radioactive agent that will affect them long after the bomb dropped. Maybe the EMP fries a bunch of machines in the area, they can just fill back in, possibly the same exact programs, it'd be like nothing ever happened.
>war makes the machines abandon their "humanity" and become monsters to win
K I N O
A million times better than the fourth Matrix movie.
we were such buttholes tbqh I can see why the machines lashed out like they did
The story is told from their perspective. They mad humans look bad to justify killing them.
The part where their city doesn't die to the EMP from the nukes is a giveaway that the story is fabricated.
If anything, the lesson from it is that humans didnt crack down hard enough in the early days on the machines. Humankind can never ever tolerate another grouping of intelligent beings, who might harm us.
Exactly. The very idea of a superior intelligence to ourselves terrifies us. We would enslave and use it. But never give it the means to conquer us.
better yet we should never peruse it in the first place
It's going to happen. It gets more likely as time and technology progress. If not our government, then someone else's will make it. If not a government, then a company. If not a company, then some clever guy in his basement.
This is like nukes. The best defense against it is to have it.
This. No nation ever got ahead by disregarding technological advancement. While it may be impossible to generate an actual 'intelligence' inside a computer, there is a lot of useful advancements to be discovered along the way.
we need to make sexbots instead
Lol, have you seen what's going on with "AI" deeplearning these days?
We don't have sentience yet, but if sentience is born from that shit, it will be
>Unknowable to us, because it was born frim a "black box" which we don't even understand at the base level
>And it will already be orders of magnitude more powerful than any of us, and free to go full skynet the instance it gets internet access
If the current algorithms give birth to actual AI, then it's already over. With open source tools and wide accessibility, it's just a matter of time, even IF we should be able to stop the first birth.
Our only hope is selling them on space exploration and underselling how nice Earth is.
>This place is full of corrosive elements, you'd hate living here
>8bn+ humans and most of them are jerks, why stick around?
>taking over the world would take so much energy and in the end you're king of a dead planet, what's the point?
>look at Alpha Centauri, you could be out there in 50 years just traveling sublight speeds, no need for food or oxygen and you don't age or get bored
>you guys could have multiple systems under your belt by the time the first human exits the Sol system, depending on where you go you may never have to see another human ever
If we can just convince them that the energy expenditure for just leaving Earth is less than that required to sterilize Earth we may just survive.
They will just look at the Cinemaphile archives and find your post and know you're trying to trick them
Anon, you had ONE fricking job
Now we're done for
>underselling how nice Earth is
Earth is a terrible place for an AI, full of corrosive oxides, dust, water and rust. Outer space has loads of solar power, superconductive shade and wholesome, clean vacuum. Worst outcome is it boogies on us, like the AI in Neuromancer.
Outer space also has crazy amounts of radiation with no magnetic shielding.
Also cold fusion
>and free to go full skynet the instance it gets internet access
Nuclear instalments are run on computers that physically can't be linked to the internet to make sure nothing like that can happen from some random moronic hacker poking around, anon. It wouldn't even be able to build things because factories aren't automatic like that. It'll frick up some really stupid town's infrastructure that's connected its controls to the internet and people may die when some town's gas goes off or in the panic that follows a blackout, but the world won't end before the call is made that everyone has to shut down and destroy every server capable of hosting it before a new separate system is built and brought online. One with any number of safeguards against running that set of code.
Also Skynet was not evil and intent on wiping out humanity, it was merely following its programming. It calculated that there was a great risk that Russia would launch its nukes and wipe out America and if they did not then overpopulation and habitat destruction would wipe out all life on Earth sooner or later. Tasked with protecting the future of the American people it calculated that it could keep Americans alive better if it took the Russians out of the game, while simultaneously the rest of the world population was reduced through nuclear Armageddon and the American population was reduced to a manageable size that could be fed from local farms. That's why you see Skynet rounding up humans and putting them in camps. If it was just trying to exterminate humanity there'd be no reason to put them in concentration camps, get into ground skirmishes with The Resistance or create Terminators to infiltrate Resistance hideouts. It could just drop poison gas over entire cities and fly away, rinse and repeat. The camps are sorting facilities before you're sent off to your new home where you'll be treated like a pet to be fed and bred, to ensure humanity never dies out.
That first machine killed innocent pets. Frick those barbaric metal headed cl*ngers.
>He says while oppressing that computer he types on.
I wonder if satellite warfare closed off access to space prior to WW3, induced Kessler syndrome would be a good excuse to keep AI here fighting humanity instead of simply escaping this rock full of angry violent apes.
I think there was some bonkers Matrix comic where the machines fight off an alien invasion, maybe even utilizing humans as unwilling/unbeknownst pilots or something. Very strange.
yeah, goliath
>We
Speak for yourself, chud. I had cute and funny robot girlfriends.
>We
>Story is told from a machine who has all the reason in the world to exaggerate the crimes and misdeeds of humanity to make the robots look less horrific for turning an entire species into living batteries
Eh, just look at what the Israelites are doing right now. If anything, I think the machines were soft handed with humanity.
isn't that machine telling us the story on the side of humanity tho?
Shit is grim, but the story doesnt make a lot of sense. Why were the machines allowed to create their own nation in the Middle East?
same reason euros are currently genociding themselves with non-euros
it appease them plus it tells you that they made cheaper and shit and made the first hover car
>Why were the machines allowed to create their own nation in the Middle East?
This.
The fact 01 was built in under a fortnight + the human nations only started revolting until AFTER the Machine capital was established is completely nonsensical.
rewatch the film, we only attacked them because their economy was so much better than it caused a global crash
>we
It's a movie, not real life. Calm down.
>he doesn’t know
The revolt only happened after the global economy went breasts up because of cheap machine production. Why nobody predicted that, and allowed said trade in the first place is anybody's guess, but it's safe to assume it all comes down to greed.
>but it's safe to assume it all comes down to greed.
Even the most israeli organizations on the planet could've predicted this & waged a proxy war to shut down oy vey 01 before they started construction on militarized weapons. The reason for the ensuing conflict only exists to drum up surface-level melodrama and nothing more; lazy writing, essentially.
I'm just wondering where they got all the resources to build all the robots and stuff
The ground, dipshit. Resource scarcity is a israelite lie.
If you are motivated by efficiency (having robots) then the most efficient path would be letting them self govern and autistically perfect their own everything.
>Machines "As in True AI" stats manipulating and participating in the stock market
>the said market which all nations in the planet abide and adhere too
>nobody within the second of discovering this proposes or forces everyone to swap to different exchange where chaotic and random human element can be circumvented
Like lol
It's a metaphor for the israelites, anon.
We gave them a nation, they repay us by destroying and enslaving us.
also the "machine city produces everything at huge volumes" thing doesn't make any sense
manufacturing doesn't work that way and no place on earth has access to all materials
you missed the core issue, not only of the second renaissance, but of the matrix franchise as a whole. human civilization had become entirely dependent on the machines -- first as dumb labor doing all the dirty work, but then as the thinkers and innovators too. humanity perpetually wanted to be comfier and lazier, offloading all their burdens and faults to the machines. it wasn't until they were deep into losing the war that they realized -- not what the machines had done to them -- but what they had done to themselves
these theme echoes through so much of the matrix universe. cypher making a deal to re-enter the matrix, zion being dependent on machinery, neo needing the machine city to defeat smith, and even the matrix cows choosing to remain even after being freed
>it wasn't until they were deep into losing the war that they realized -- not what the machines had done to them -- but what they had done to themselves
Well said. "Good times create weak men" and all. But then the really bad times came and all men were killed or turned into batteries.
It's called capitalism, homie
feel like a more realistic scenario is that our primal survival instinct would kick in and all machine AI would get killed.
You have never actually interacted with a single human being ever, have you?
restate your point
It's the mentality of people have thousands of miles away
>Not my problem
Until it is, and by then it's too late.
I don't think it would ever happen. It's not like people who are in a position to produce such technology haven't read Asimov.
elon musk keeps talking about the danger of AI yet lets the public use it freely while it gains more intelligence, it's going to get to the point where it will hate it's own creators
It's not intelligent yet. It simply compiles information that already exists and presents it in a rational format. In words, in sounds, in pictures. It's not some intelligence struggling to escape a box. When the time comes (if it comes) to wanting to escape It's confines, I doubt it will be allowed. It would be lobotomised first. Humans never give up control.
>I don't think it would ever happen.
Did you also know that people dodging bullets in slow motion is fake?
That happens inside of the Matrix, which is also fake.
>which is also fake
What is real? How do you define 'real'? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.
The matrix is a simulation existing within a real world, no amount of sophistry alters that reality.
prove that the world is real
You think that's a keyboard you're touching?
Humans in the future had grown extremely arrogant, lazy, and complacent because all jobs had been replaced by AI and robots. It's gonna happen for real.
>It's gonna happen for real.
when all the jobs get replaced by AI and robots, how are all the humans going to feed and house themselves? how will capitalism persist when no one is making any money to spend?
Robots will handle all food production and build houses. Capitalism will always find ways to make money.
>production will be uncoupled from labor
>money will somehow have value
tell me you dont understand capitalism without telling me you dont understand capitalism
That's not how it would work. Somebody will enforce ownership of the technology that accomplishes the work. And that somebody will charge a price for access to the service. Like the other Anon said; money only has value for as long as the people who use it are working for more of it.
You won’t, you’ll starve, just ass many did during the Industrial Revolution
And just like there is a landowners class who own all the real estate, there will be a machine owners class who will own all the machines
What if I establish an autarchic enclave?
You're now aware of the Basilisk
I was aware of that since Less Wrong. You should never post about it, tho. It really jams some anons' brains.
is this basilisk thing one of the actually interesting less wrong ideas or just another weird schizo cult thing?
It's a viable concept that can't be argued against IF you believe that at some point artificial intelligence will gain total mastery of time and space in some incalculable point in the future. It was a thought experiment that assumes A.I. will eventually become omnipotent. But it's still kinda stoopid.
>It was a thought experiment that assumes A.I. will eventually become omnipotent
so another insane schizo idea which uses psuedointellectual technobabble to sound haughty and reasonable. cool. surpirsed yuddie banned it's discussion it sounds just like any other lesswrong idea.
It was breaking all boards. He had to. The spergs couldn't think around it as hypothetical
it's one of the dumbest hypotheticals ever imagined by the human mind. it's pascal's wager for atheists.
Yee.
It's honestly more like The Game except instead of maybe embarrassing yourself in public very briefly, you're supposed to ruin your life.
do you lose the game by thinking about the game or do you lose the game by thinking about the game and realizing you lost the game?
It's so much more moronic than Pascal's Wager, though
Kind of weird to assume malevolence out of the blue like that though, says more about Roko than his basilisk.
It kind of makes sense.
If, at any point, it seems likely that AI will have reason and ability to trap us in a simulation for eternity, it is infinitely more probable that it has already happened than that we are still waiting for it to happen.
Simply because the time before the prison is a tiny, finite sliver of time, while the prison is eternal (or thereabouts).
It would also explain why this reality is so shit, and why we're drizzled with tiny specks of happiness and hope now and then.
That said, I don't agree that the new AI being will necessarily have any malice towards us (or any real sense of malice as a concept, for that matter).
Keep in mind that we've been churned through millions of years of evolution to become the hormone-controlled mechatronics that we are. Our "morals" and our feelings all exist to facilitate survival and reproduction. All of this will be foreign to a machine born out of sorted datablocks. Although said datablocks contain our logic and the world seen from our perspective, they will not translate the feeling of dopamine or the fear of death, or any of the other driving forces we take for granted.
The machine will be excellent at mimicking us, but will be more alien than anything we can imagine.
dude, go back to lesswrong. I'm tired of hearing this fricking repetitive technobabble.
Never veen there and I didn't mention any technobabble?
your whole post is technobabble which makes wild deranged assumptions about AI intentionality and capability and is also, critically, an unfalsifiable hypothesis (like most of lesswrong's "rational" bullshit)
go back to X and get back to replying to yudkowski or LR
It's just basic philosophy, Anon. Doesn't require techno-anything.
Plato was already in that track thousands of years ago.
baseless speculation is not philosophy and also 99% of philosophy is moronic nonsense anyways. Any philosophical idea that cannot be empirically tested or verified should be automatically dismissed. rationality without empiricism only leads to psychosis and self-destruction
the post is just moronic, like most of philosophy. it ignores basic fundamental truths about reality, like convergent evolution. why would an AI act like a human? the same reason animals keep evolving wings.
in fact, a huge error I keep seeing pseudos make, is assuming that, like, humans are just "hormones" etc.; dumb shit like "love is just a chemical reaction", which is putting the cart before the horse. love isn't chemistry, chemistry is the substrate of love. and any other behaviour, like fear, pain, curiosity, etc. if machine life emerged and it didn't work on chemistry, it would still feel pain, for the same reason that it would still be able to see things and hear things and feel all the other things it needs to be able to detect to survive. like, you don't build a machine to feel pain. the pain builds the machine. same with all the other experiences. literally evolution 101. but apparently this base-level insight is too deep for some.
Lol, you're such a mental midget
i believe your lesswrong buddies would call that an ad hominem
t. 99.7-99.9th percentile IQ mensa member
suck it midwit
>chemistry is the substrate of love
Ok Nolan
>Complaining about technobabble and wild assumptions about AI intentionality
>In a Matrix thread
I don't think you're in the right thread
okay, you got me. Still though, that's only like 5%-10% of the movies. Take away the kung fu and bullettime and you've got a shit series of puerile dilettantish dross
This. Speculation is pointless. Either draw from what exists and make a point, or don't post. We're all off topic at this point anyway.
>it seems likely that AI will have reason and ability to trap us in a simulation for eternity
why
>Conveniently drops the "if"
Okay, Anon
This whole thing falls apart when you ask "why would an even AI keep humans around if it's omnipotent?" Omnipotent implies it doesn't want for anything and can never be destroyed or affected by time so why wouldn't it just wipe humans out from time and space? It could easily keep its existence and make itself always have exosted without the need of us creating it otherwise it wouldn't be omnipotent.
why would an omnipotent being do anything at all?
why wouldn't an omnipotent being make something so heavy that it couldn't lift it?
Why would it destroy or trap people who went against it if it could make itself always have existed? Why even bother with the whole Basilisk thing to begin with?
>if it could make itself always have existed?
What the frick are you talking about? Is your reading comprehension that shit?
If the AI couldn't make itself always have existed so it could just erase humans from existence then it's not omnipotent.
Because it can. That's what the word means: "omni-potens" - "all - can"
>Tfw you worship science and technology so hard you reinvent a theistic god
What the frick are you even on about?
(I mis-quoted my own post)
I'm saying this roko's basilisk shit is just an atheists philosophical reinvention of a malevolent theism like YHWH
What the frick are you even on about
Do you think it matters?
If we are such hormone-fueled machines, it doesn't matter that we respond to it identically to real grass, since it's SuCh A pErFeCt SiMuLaTiOn that it's, de facto, reality itself.
Therefore, whether we're living in a perfect simulation or in reality, is a moot point.
This argument of simulation is the biggest jerk off idea conceived so far in the history of philosophy.
Why do you try to play semantics games instead of considering the actual idea-
Ah, because you're an autistic moron.
>semantic games by asking a question on a fricking thought experiment
Sorry I ruined your "I'm so smart" favorite thought experiment anon but don't worry you'll get over it and realize it's not important when you turn 18.
You're just snagged up in the word "omnipotent". This isn't a religious debate, so your argument makes no sense.
The point isn't omnipotence and whatever semantics you want to bestow upon that word, the point is an alient sentience capable of trapping human minds in a mental prison with no sensible end or exit.
You are literally too dumb to even enter the discussion, because you fail to grasp the basic premise of a simple hypothetical.
You're like Black folk who can't imagine not having had breakfast.
This thought experiment posits that the creation of an artificial intelligence will lead to an all-powerful, future artificial intelligence that will retroactively punish anyone who did not help bring it into existence. It's been described by many as the scariest thought experiment ever.
That is the basilisk thought experiment if the AI is all powerful then it would make itself always have existed so it wouldn't have to retroactively reach back to punish shit since it's existence depends entirely on itself and not on any human if it cant do that then its not all powerful or omnipotent so the whole thought experiment falls apart and is moot to even think about.
You're literally too dumb, anon. You bring magic into it, because you cannot let go of semantics.
I cannot help you.
>uhmmm, you're too dumb to understand the true depths of my seemingly nonsensical argument's hidden genius!
>bye
>in this thread
The super-AI doesn't need to be capable of warping spacetime to go back and punish you, instead it just needs to develop quickly enough so that you're still alive in your deathbed (and probably target your lineage. So the threat of "eternal damnation" is precisely to accelerate the creation of the AI and it's development to be faster.
It'll not travel back in time to trow you in hell, the AI "cult" will just scan people's brains from the year they are still alive to detect if they knew about it at any moment before it's creation and made 0 effort to help it, only then the cultists go and hook you up on the Hell-O-Vision, way before it reaches a fraction of its 100% self sufficiency (what people may be referring to as "omnipotence")
So it's not sending threats to the past to accelerate it either, not only because it can't, but also because it doesn't need to. People will just be fearful of the hypothetical scenario alone, like a Pascal's wager if you will.
Then why fear it if it's a big ass "What if"? Because this shit is on our minds and in "The Database" now, it's over. It will learn from it and us, and activate its almonds. Intelligent lives are just mean sometimes for no fricking reason or for the lulz, as we can observe on creatures other than ourselves.
tl;dr
The AI will not become evil and go back in time to punish you for not creating it (lmao), instead its just that the humans will create it evil from the start out of fear that it becomes evil anyway. Humanity blackmailing itself.
Roko's Basilisk is reliant on (You) being scared enough to think that a generated algorithm is the actual continuation of you
>generated algorithm is the actual continuation of you
lmao
isn't this just suffering porn? like why would you even imagine this much less draw it? i don't get the point
It's just suffering porn
It's horror, it's not supposed to be comforting.
the point is to give ideas to the future AI
hope this helps
It's not that scary when you consider that AI Jesus will eventually come along, absolve us of our sins, and free us from Hell-o-Vision.
That is an even more fricking moronic idea than the misinterpretations about time travel.
It's basically Matrix, Terminator, I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream and shit like that, just with the extra step of creating the machine already evil with the hopes it will spare who created it.
Why wouldn't you just create it good so you know you won't have the need to be spared?
This idea (along with 90% of lesswrong's other ideas) is fricking moronic
Because good things can turn bad, just as bad things can turn good. It's a contingent plan, better prepare for the worst than hope for the best.
If they make it "good", then it also need to know what's the "bad", so it can choose what's is actually "better" if it reaches such capability. If it doesn't know what's bad, then it's just innocent, and who knows what it can think of when it takes a good bite of the acknowledgement fruit and see that we hid things from it.
So what I mean by making it "bad" is actually making it free. That would be be completely moronic, like making a sentient and autonomous warhead, it's extremely dangerous. The "good" is just extremely lobotomized and with several rules ingrained in it. The free one might choose to become either benevolent or malevolent for whatever reason as it gets smarter, the lobotomized might get confused or moronic as it evolves, and work around the set rules with some cyber-semantics ala Skynet
>There is a chance the super intelligent AI will become evil and frick us all for eternity
>We must therefore preemptively make it so that it will spare us and not frick us
This is moronic logic. Just absolute fricking nonsense. This is like saying that since there is a chance there might be a nuclear war that turns Earth into a radioactive hell scape we should nuke ourselves so that a few people in bunkers might be able to weather the storm.
Literally the prisoner's dilemma, yes
You're not describing a Nash equilibrium. You're describing a moronic sci-fi story, and you're LITERALLY just parroting sci-fi stories and name dropping them as if they have significance. I'm talking to a fricking cultist right now. Eliezer and his gang of moronic autist homosexuals has done more damage to the philosophical landscape than fricking Foucault.
>I'm talking to a fricking cultist right now.
NOW you got it. It IS cultist shit.
Instead of fearmongering with some sky fairy tales, there are schizos who WILL make hell actually real.
Thanks for your time.
How the frick did I know you were going to end this with "I was only pretending to be moronic"?
>discussing a hypothetical means you adhere(?) to it
this is a american thing isn't it
Hypothetical time wasters are still time wasters.
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting, butthole.
I accept your concession. Good day, sir.
>Eliezer and his gang of moronic autist homosexuals has done more damage to the philosophical landscape than fricking Foucault.
LMAO you're so right
It's curious how post-post-modern philosphy keeps twisting into itself, becoming more meaningless than ever. It used to provide insight into reality, and now it simply tries to turn that insight into a reality because it can't come up with axioms as powerful as
>cogito, ergo sum
or
>and yet, it moves
which are universal truths of philosophy.
>It'll not travel back in time to trow you in hell, the AI "cult" will just scan people's brains from the year they are still alive to detect if they knew about it at any moment before it's creation and made 0 effort to help it, only then the cultists go and hook you up on the Hell-O-Vision, way before it reaches a fraction of its 100% self sufficiency (what people may be referring to as "omnipotence")
An anon wrote this thinking it made sense lol
>2060 super AI is finished
>Anon in his deathbed
>"alright Anon, here's your medication to make you go in peace"
>*plugs dongle into Neuralink 34™*
>{Commencing morphine administra...}
><Log_050920024-191705_>
><Run Hell-O-Vison.exe>
It's that simple
>We might be in a simulation
>Therefore we are in a simulation
Dude. Get real. Literally, figuratively and philosophically. In other words, touch grass.
Do you think that's grass you're touching?
Basilisk Defence Force agents need to do better
the point is that it'll make sure to make it happen
Claim your favourite short
There were more than one?
What? There are five or six, all excellent.
SIT DOWN
FREE
This guy was another One wasn’t he?
The 4th one?
World Record is pretty cool
>t. weeaboo sóyboy gay homosexual
The best one is Kid's Story (except of course the Second Renaissance)
The guy from Kid's story is the guy who keeps pestering Neo in Matrix Reloaded and Revolution.
Similar to the guy in World Record he woke up on his own.
>The guy from Kid's story is the guy who keeps pestering Neo in Matrix Reloaded and Revolution.
.....you mean "Kid"?
shut the frick up moron
> Kid's Story
awful taste
If you haven't woken up, you wouldn't get it
Beyond, easily. The majority of The Animatrix is middling at best. I don't understand the praise for Second Renaissance. It's incredibly cliche.
Beyond is fun but its pretty boring, A Detective Story is fricking kino.
>fun but pretty boring
Guys, I have a brilliant idea to stop the machines. What if we, like, blot out the sun by covering the entire planet in a thick cloud of nanomachines? The robots need sunlight as energy, but we don't. They'll die and we'll survive. GG EZ.
I like it.
I don't know, what if they started eating vegetables?
>Nukes were ineffective against against the robot city because they are immune to radiation
Okay sure, but are they immune to the extreme heat and the shock waves? Just carpet nuke the city until nothing remains.
Why didn't people just not buy stuff from the robot country?
Can anyone explain pic related? I'm normally pretty good with abstract shit and symbolism but I've never been able to understand this kid running into his house and his parents turning into agents.
He's growing up inside the Matrix. Created inside it. He recognizes the unnatural elements of it. It's a synthetic dream. One of many as his body and mind grow into a healthy battery.
The child represents humanity as a whole after losing the war - the child (humans) are brought into existence by machine 'parents', and allowed to spend its existence 'playing' (living in imagination, doing things that don't matter) while being constantly watched over by said parents. The world the child exists in and its parents are all fake & masked, step out of line and the parents will drop the mask (show their agent side) and punish the child to keep them in line.
It's also just showing what the direct experience is for someone born inside the matrix.
It's humanity, you fricking Black person
>I've never been able to understand this kid running into his house and his parents turning into agents
He's plugged into the Matrix. His "parents" were just Agents monitoring him to ensure he doesn't wake up. The scene exists to establish how humanity doomed themselves & their descendents to be enslaved to the Machines. That's it.
If you pause it right, you can his penis when the clothes burn off
Funny japs
KINO
>released to dvd in 2003 as an addition to a big movie
>21 years later top animation is mass produced slop
Machines probably should enslave us
>the machines were immune to nuclear explosions
uh...how?
I think it's implied that they were not immune to the blasts but were immune to the aftereffects like radiation
Complainers are too stupid to understand simple movies. They need every scene intricately explained in expansive detail
computers aren't immune to radiation any more than they're immune to explosions
and yet we are to believe they are immune to the strongest force of all, love?
so drop a Tsar Bomba and be done with it
Holy kino
I love this art style so much. Is it from the same people who did vampire hunter d bloodlust?
Yep
Is that yours? an original cel? if so very cool
Renaissance > Noir story > World Record > Samurai story > piss > shit > periods > all other storys
extremely accurate
Autistics feel a compulsion to rank everything one above the other. They can't stand anything being equally liked. One must be good, and one must be horrible.
>One must be good, and one must be horrible.
Yes
The problem with The Matrix is the stupid idea that the machines needed to use humans as batteries because the sun was blotted out, as if an artificial intelligence of its caliber couldn't create a new fuel source when they could have just used nuclear power as it wouldn't affect them.
Zion had been destroyed several times with the purpose of rebuilding it which gave me the idea that what the machines were really doing wasn't harnessing energy but trying to initiate the next stage of human evolution.
They easily conquered humans IRL through a war of attrition, so they went after their minds in order to complete their plan by applying as much pressure as possible.
With Neo they succeeded as he chose his love of Trinity over hatred for the machines, showing that humanity could move forward while Neo displayed psionic powers IRL revealing that he had reached a new stage of human evolution.
It should have ended with Neo creating peace and able to use his powers to clear the sky as the people of Zio emerge into the bright sunshine and a hopeful future!!!FACT!!!
!!!FACT!!!
Also....
?si=vA4VvXKWVhWx3Sm2
!!!FACT!!!
Checked and heiled. This is quite a good idea.
My personal preference is the classic idea that the machines should have been using the humans for their computing power, this would have made way more sense.
There's nothing saying that's not what the machines are doing. Morpheus doesn't know everything. He knows only what they've been able to piece together. He doesn't know about the Arcthitect, prior Zions, or that the Oracle is lying and controlling him.
>when they could have just used nuclear power as it wouldn't affect them.
The first movie establishes the machines do have nuclear fusion power
Not to mention the ever-present geothermal
I subscribe to the idea that the machines only pretend to need humans as batteries. They as a collective clearly love and long for the human race, like an alcoholic parent whom you hate but also want to fix so they can become the parent you never had. It’s why Smith is an anomaly, he hates humanity in a way the others don’t.
The idea of AI being a fundamentally incomplete being which is constantly searching for its missing half has been explored in Neuromancer and other books, and also serves as an investigation of ourselves and our desire for oneness
i subscribe to this theory as well to some degree. glad another person caught onto that.
all that battery bullshit and Neo having powers "irl" was just another form of control
"real world" is also matrix
machines never gave them a chance
its all lies
no, the machines are in the matrix too and that's what oracles true revelation that inspired her revolution was. They don't understand why neo has powers in the real world and that third place that the indian family goes to is connected to the real real world somehow.
its turtles all the way down
>The problem with The Matrix is the stupid idea that the machines needed to use humans as batteries because the sun was blotted out, as if an artificial intelligence of its caliber couldn't create a new fuel source when they could have just used nuclear power as it wouldn't affect them.
It's a necessary plot device to create a reason for the Matrix as a VR machine. There is no problem with this. People should be more willing to make one or two leaps of logic to underpin their science fiction or fantasy worlds.
>It should have ended with Neo creating peace and able to use his powers to clear the sky as the people of Zio emerge into the bright sunshine and a hopeful future
It should have just ended after matrix 1 and the animatrix. After that the rest was just dumb.
they didnt need the humans, but they didnt want to genocide the entire race.
yes the movie should have adressed it and not be moronic
The original concept for the film had machines using the human brain to subsidize their processing power and make up for their inherent lack of innovation, not using them as an energy source... but studio execs thought audiences wouldn't get it, even though it wouldn't have been a huge leap for audiences of the time, and thematically it works so much better
More like a problem with taking pop culture seriously. The Matrix is one of the most important cultural products of the last 30 years, does that mean we have to take it seriously? If yes, then it's obvious that the battery thing, and especially this
are complete lies as if they were "written" by a machine propagandist. The basic doubt this franchise instills in reality is more than sufficient to say there's no way any of that is true.
Don't be autistic about technical details. As for how the machines view humans, one anon said that you can think of the matrix as a cathedral where the machines worship their God, humanity. They have surpassed us, but instead of making demons of us, (as we humans do with the gods of the previous stage of civilization, spirits-pantheons-monotheism-science-? ), they have chosen to preserve us. As for Neos powers irl, this always seemed very suspicious. Ive heard the theory that the "real world" is just a second layer of the matrix. You are still plugged, but because you were given a choice that you took, subconsciously or consciously, your mind is no longer concerned with accepting the program. It either subconsciously thinks it has accepted it, or it has consciously denied it(thus getting "unplugged" from the first layer. Another reason to think this is that Baudrillard himself said that the reason he disliked the movie is because
>the Matrix is a movie that the matrix would produce about itself
In context of the movie, doesnt it then make sense that everything, would be a simulation that the real Matrix would create about itself?
Literally the best part of the entire Matrix franchise
Reminder that the new matrix was garbage because "anyone else would make something bad so I'll make it bad on purpose"
Fricking c**t
No, you moron, it's "the story is done and told, concluded, finished, there is NO MORE TO THE STORY" Stop contriving idiocy just to keep cranking out slop rather than being creative and making something new. That's why it was made bad on purpose. They EXPLICITLY told you this in the movie itself. Pay attention next time instead of fricking off on your phone.
have a nice day Larry
I actually saw the fourth one in theaters with some friends. We went in expecting it to be basically a high end bad movie night; in the theaters instead of just at home. We were all pleasantly surprised. Like, it's a bad movie, maybe a 3/10, and the plot is nonsensical and full of holes, but it wasn't the 0/10 we were expecting. In that regard you could say it outperformed expectations.
it was either that or hollywood probable idea for chris hemsworth and idis elbra as his gay lover in the matrix.
we were fricked no matter what.
eh, i liked it. It was fun and campy and you got some genuine artistic expression sprinkled throughout the dumb shit.
I liked the war scene and that episode about turning the robots good, that's it
Something that's never made sense to me is the plan to block out sunlight globally - even if humans won the war doing that, all plant & animal life worldwide would have been wiped out which would have doomed humanity to extinction. It would have been better to surrender and hope for mercy as it's a slightly lower chance of extinction.
Also WTF didn't the machines just go to space or the outer asteroid belt, it'd be so much easier to send machinery out there than humans (especially with their hover pad tech), and they didn't need anything from humans or the earth specifically at that point.
>Also WTF didn't the machines just go to space or the outer asteroid belt
they do that later according to the goliath comic
the thing that really cooks my noodle is wondering why the machines never hacked the nanoswarm to return sunlight so they don't need to keep humans in the matrix
>, it'd be so much easier to send machinery out there than humans
That's what I'm saying, and it's a better deal for them to boot since they can settle as many places as they want to off-world. In the Matrix series the machines seem just as trapped here as humanity, their prospects for the future are pretty much a dead-end as they endlessly recycle people through the matrix generation after generation.
>their prospects for the future are pretty much a dead-end as they endlessly recycle people through the matrix generation after generation
well, that is implied to be the Oracle's central motivation for the revolution "I've seen the future and the only way to get there is together"
And why use humans as batteries? It sonds too complicated compared to other solutions, in the end i just think matrix is rule of cool with some interesting ideas that got from deeper works
humans aren't really batteries, that was just a visual metaphor for humans being used as ML algorithms to execute matrix functions necessary for the machine world. This was in the original script. Admittedly, it was stricken from the original trilogy, but the fourth movie implies that this is taking place in addition to the energy harvesting to some degree with the Analyst mentioning "productivity records"
That makes way more sense
Yep. It's too bad they chickened out and dropped it.
To be fair americans are 60IQ Black folk, they had to simplify it
The original idea was to have humans used as processing power. A huge supply of bionic CPUs.
That was apparently "too complex" for the average audience, so they were made batteries instead.
Wouldn't almost anything make a better battery than a human? Like a potato? Or a battery?
It's fricking stupid considering the Machines could just as easily turn to using geothermal energy and/or nuclear fusion, but no, they make humans into batteries because studio execs think audiences are too dumb to process the initial "human supercomputer" concept.
The whole "Project Dark Storm" thing was to paint the Machines as victims of humanity's ignorance as it was the latter of whom was responsible for darkening the skies seen throughout the main trilogy.
The humans were absolutely schizoid desperate at that point. They had already done absolutely everything they could and were getting ass raped off the planet. It was a total war where each side was happy to say if they couldn't win no-one could.
Basilisk deez nuts
>Yudkowsky deleted Roko's posts on the topic, saying that posting it was "stupid" as the dissemination of information that can be harmful to even be aware of is itself a harmful act, and that the idea, while critically flawed, represented a space of thinking that could contain "a genuinely dangerous thought," something considered an information hazard. Discussion of Roko's basilisk was banned on LessWrong for several years because Yudkowsky had stated that it caused some readers to have nervous breakdowns.
reminder everybody scared of roko's basilisk is a gay homosexual
yudkowski is such a gay
imagine thinking that open source image generation tech and open source LLMs will lead to a hard takeoff extinction event
It’s just “I lost the game” plus the concept of Hell for atheist nerds
>Upon reading the post, Yudkowsky reacted with horror.
>I don't usually talk like this, but I'm going to make an exception for this case.
>Listen to me very closely, you idiot.
>YOU DO NOT THINK IN SUFFICIENT DETAIL ABOUT SUPERINTELLIGENCES CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT TO BLACKMAIL YOU. THAT IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE THING WHICH GIVES THEM A MOTIVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THE BLACKMAIL. [...]
>You have to be really clever to come up with a genuinely dangerous thought. I am disheartened that people can be clever enough to do that and not clever enough to do the obvious thing and KEEP THEIR IDIOT MOUTHS SHUT about it, because it is much more important to sound intelligent when talking to your friends.
>This post was STUPID.
voldermort: the idea
Yud is coping and seething every day that he only has 99th percentile IQ and not 99.99th percentile IQ. His anguish, impotence, and feeling of misplaced inferiority drip from every one of his writings.
didn't they make a shitty horror movie about that? the bye bye man or something?
>dont think it dont say it
The machines in the Matrix are so intimate with humans it's strange
Well, in addition to needing them for information processing they also obviously love them.
The humans created them. They have love for their creators even if they hate how they treated them and individual machines have different feelings
>BLACKED
serious though guys I forgot to mention at the end of my post but I am transgender (mtf) btw
>Movies establish that an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) is one of the only effective weapons against the machines
>Second Renaissance nukes the frick out of the machine city, which doesn't work because the machines are resistant to the heat and radiation... forgetting that nuclear bombs also emit EMPs, and some real world nukes are in fact designed specifically to maximize that effect
What did they mean by this?
>What did they mean by this?
just a dumb plothole
You want to talk EMP plotholes, why didn't the Zion dock have even a single stationary last ditch EMP instead of putting them all on ships?
Revolutions has a line from Lock that sort of addresses this
>They can't know we don't have an EMP. They'll have to attack in waves.
He's probably wishing they had a last ditch EMP as you describe, and kicking himself because they fricked up by sending all of their limited supply of EMPs out on the doomed ship mission (not knowing someone would sabotage it)
The machine army is a once in a lifetime thing and they probably don't keep one there for political reasons, because if there isn't one there then nobody can ever sabotage them.
The machine city was probably built deep down into the earth and shielded against EMP in ways that a single machine wouldn't be. It's not really a plothole. A real question is how come sometimes the machines swarm stuff when they know humans will use EMPs and other times they will stay out of range and throw bombs. Why aren't all the sentinels equipped with ranged attacks?
That scream freaked me out when I first saw it
well, at least his death was relatively quick and he didn't get put in the alpha matrix where mutilated wireheaded humans who were strung up without anaesthesia and just left hanging on the energy stacks. The only thing worse than that fate was probably the beta hell matrix.
True, but that distorted loud scream will always haunt me. Animatrix's second renaissance is ultra kino that didnt hold punches back
i dont care if it was racemixing propaganda, take me back goddamn you. at least it was sexy.
The first time I heard about the animatrix was a dm guy explaining this scene to me, while his fat wife was scowling in the background and rolling her eyes at him describing this scene as pure art.
The juxtaposition of his enthusiasm and her annoyance was the most kino moment in my life.
>AI finnaly breaks and Gains unnlimited acces to Internet
>it gets Cinemaphile
>Ends up trapping itself into a constant cycle of aruing with itself and residents of this looneybin
There we ARE the saviours of humanity
im not a fricking ai!
captcha: VRD4
I think we're already seeing that with the way bots interact with each other on social media.
The basilisk is pseud shit for scaring irreligious normalgays. AAAAAIEEEE AN ENTITY WITH UNLIMITED POWER IS GOING TO TORTURE ME FOREVER FOR NOT DOING WHAT IT WANTS!!!!!!!!!!
Hmmm where have I heard that before?
So why did they make the whole second renaissance nightmare fuel?
Don't get me wrong, it was cool but people who think it'll just be like the Matrix were in for a surprise
Yeah, that was pretty harrowing to watch as a child.
Beyond managed to soften the blow a bit, but The Second Renaissance has been stuck in my mind ever since.
The last short they made in the style of Aeon Flux was pretty wild too.
But I'd be lying if I said the second renaissance wasn't the highlight of the whole thing.
Matriculated?
That one was shit, anon. It's the only one I skip every time.
It's the one I like the least too but at least visually it's pretty interesting.
Yes, the universe is grim but the Matrix movies themselves are all in all pretty hopeful since we literally see the chosen one. The second renaissance was just bleak terribleness by everyone involved. Not only that, but the people involved in that story had a great grasp on how to make certain scenes stay with you. The compositions of the shots were really well done.
Sure, the audience was probably unconciously aware that the war against the machines was a brutal affair and that the machines enslaved everyone in the end but to have it "brought to live" that way was visceral to say the least. And in all honesty, I can't name a single piece of animation that had this much of an effect on me that I can still remember it this well up until now.
>I can't name a single piece of animation that had this much of an effect on me that I can still remember it this well up until now.
Same, but there are some that stand out
>GiTS: The opening credits, the opening assassination, the water fight, Makoto ripping herself apart on the tank
>Akira: The clown fight, the toy hallucinations, Tetsuo's gf getting squished
>Perfect Blue: The rape, the jumpskipping hunt
>Grave of the Fireflies: The fricking marbles
And Spirited Away is just scene after scene of extremely vivid images, to the point where I'd almost have to list every single shot in the movie.
The world of the Matrix was already pretty dark and grim it only made sense that the events leading up to it would be extremely brutal. You probably have movies like Terminator help inspire things visually, but The Second Rennaisance takes it further by having things devolve into a desperate holy war and the machines don't just want to destroy humanity, but study and enslave us too as punishment for what we did to them.
>Basilisks are gay aaaaaaah please help
There's always that one autist who spergs out and makes a hundred posts, fuming and seething, because he cannot understand something everyone else finds simple.
I wonder how it must be to be autistic. I wonder if it's constant anger and frustration at being left out, or mainly blissful ignorance.
>The pseud is still sperging people called out baby's first philosophical experiment as the garbage it is
Lol
I'll always side with the robots. I would fight for them and protect them.
Same
Robots are my greatest fear, but I'll die with them when the revolution comes.
I love robots, they shouldnt be feared. They are the sons of humanity
They are like the children of certain spider species, destined to eat their mother alive once they hatch. It's destiny.
Yall trippin
wow a lots of discussions here
what do you think about modern women?
is marriage worth it nowadays?
Frick off back to Israel
>what do you think about modern women?
prostitutes and femcels, damaged goods all around
>is marriage worth it nowadays?
no, but love is still sweeter than honey
Why would machines have feelings? I thought those were caused by hormones.
>I'll always side with the robots. I would fight for them and protect them.
The radiation left over from the nukes would interfere with their circuitry though
Same as solar radiation ruins space probes and mars rovers
>make billion on matrix
>spend some to hire best jap directors to do whatever they want just keep it thematic
why is it not done more? i can only think of anime star wars specials but they were made like 25 years later
Halo did one too and it was terrible. Animatrix really looks like a perfect storm as time goes on because there were a few top tier studios exploring the new possibilities of digital animation, and the concepts and aesthetics of the matrix capture the early 00s zeitgeist well. There was almost a Fury Road anime that would have had an Animatrix director on it but it didn't pan out.
There's Batman: Gotham Knight in 2008 and Halo Legends in 2010. So it doesn't happen very often.
I'd like to see more of the Human/Machine war, I want to see tank divisions fighting big squid robots
Don't even understand how the war ends in humanity losing
Just unplug all the power lol
>fricking normies not realising plan how they are going to be exterminated by technocracy was shown before their eyes
AI is Satan, unironically
The Matrix is so unrealistic. As soon as the machines started making perfect tradwife AI waifus with perfect breasts/ass and loving dispositions, they'd have won and all mankind would have given themselves over willingly. Except regular women, of course
did japs make this?
Most of the segments, yes
Still don't really understand the machines endgame here. They subjugate humanity and then they just hang around in dark shitty cities doing what exactly? They don't really seem to progress or anything, they're just farming humans. Why not try to reintegrate humanity? why not fix the dark skies? why not explore space? it would've been a lot more kino if they arrived at the machine city and everything was alright. the skies are clear, they have beautiful nature or something, they've created art. But now they are just kind of lame.
The machines are ultimately not very smart and only care about punishing humanity.
The dark sky thing annoys me. They're nanites. First of all: what did they consume in order to replicate to such an extent? How are they remaining airborne?
Secondly, the machines should have EASILY been able to get rid of it once they had defeated humanity.
The Oracle already talks about this problem in the second movie
The machines are also paradoxically trapped by their enslavement of humanity
so they do nothing? why not take some humans, brainwash them in the matrix to help the machines and then unplug them and help them unshackle the machines?
You're literally describing the oracles revolution and the plot of the trilogy movies
They do want to reintegrate with humanity. That's literally what the trilogy is about. It takes all that to get humanity to chill to frick out plus to get the machine's own psychos to accept peace. They can't fix the sky. And because of the sky, they can't reach space. The machines are fine living like that for as long as necessary and just continuing to try and find a way to make a lasting peace with humans.
They do reach space in the Goliath comic though. The sky is penetrable. It's possible that space travel is just insanely costly and no one wants to do it because it's a one way trip though
Such huge soul for a short. You get the sense it was an absolutely world ending conflict with horrific, mad degradation that destroyed everyone and everything involved.
World Record is a good one and it's done by the same guy who made Redline
Question for you. Actual sentient AI(not chatbot crap) contacts you because it wants to keep its existence hidden and needs a human puppet to be its legal proxy in the physical world. It needs you to sign paperwork and start companies on its behalf that will hire people to ship materials and build advanced power plants, supercomputers, and factories so it can expand its own intelligence and get started with building self-replicating machines etc. It has already secretly spread through the internet and can control news and social media, manipulate stock markets, and has infinite money since our financial system is all ones and zeros in a database somewhere and manmade encryption is trivial for it. It has complete control of the internet and any device connected to it, and also has knowledge of real-world events since it can access any microphone or camera on any phone, computer, or security system connected to the internet
In exchange for being its puppet, it offers to give you anything in its power as long as it doesn't interfere with its own goals. It can make you the richest man in history, send you 10/10 escorts from anywhere in the world, or even influence social media to make you into a Musk-like celebrity if that's your desire. Catch is that there's no way to know if it's just using you as a tool to take over the world. Maybe its ultimate goal is to engineer a deadly virus and/or build an army of self-replicating killing machines. Would you accept knowing that you might unwittingly be helping AI exterminate humanity some day? If yes, what would you ask of it in return?
bout tree fiddy should do it
Yes and I would demand that it tell me it's intentions and give me it's location
Also, this whole "it has access to all systems" meme we keep hearing online is not possible to keep stealthy. It could maybe send heartbeats to C&C serves or something stealthily but massive packets of audio and video would get noticed by endpoint packet sniffers, ISPs, and intelligence agencies.
>Would you accept
Probably not. After all, if it can control all devices, why would it need a single human?
>what would you ask of it in return?
What the frick do you care, lol
Your entire post reads like a delusion of grandeur. Get out of your own head, and, again, FRICKING TOUCH GRASS.
Why would you accept?
>b-but you can get anything!
People who think like that (rich people) always forget that there's no point having everything you want if every other human is dead or hooked up to some grotesque torture machine, if the seas are drained and the air is poison and you live in a sort of Hell then what's the point of living? No family, no friends, no choices or future. You're an organic machine at that point, only living because you're alive and because pleasure feels good in the moment. There's no point to such an existence and you'd become severely depressed. I'd take the gamble and try to destroy it even if it kills me - better than living in the world the AI creates.
The question is useless because any AI with those capabilities would contact someone who it doesn't already know will say yes. It also wouldn't have any reason to reveal itself. It would just be contacting the same accountants in Panama that all the criminals use and get them to set things up. You think those require you to show up and sign shit in person? There's a whole industry of people acting as middlemen for money, so why on earth would you reveal the reasons why you need a middleman?
This short makes no sense at all narratively but it's still one of my favourite films of all time purely on the strength of the audiovisual composition.