>but it's okay when Japan does it
said no one ever
pretty much everyone agrees that the retcon to make him more like superman is fricking moronic and a result of the original authors alzheimers
Isn't Dragonball Z inspired by some chinese fantasy genre, wuxia or some shit like that and that's why the characters glow and transform and shoot ki blasts and cultivate super kung fu powers? Wouldn't copying the conventions of that genre without even knowing that the genre exist just create an inauthentic weeaboo experience like every burgerland creator making something "anime-inspired" but too chickenshit to bring over all the little nuances of anime (or even properly copying the artstyle instead of looking like an anatomically correct beanmouth show)
>Isn't Dragonball Z inspired by some chinese fantasy genre, wuxia or some shit like that and that's why the characters glow and transform and shoot ki blasts and cultivate super kung fu powers?
You think literally any Amerifatt knows what wuxia is? They just like DBZ for the screaming and explosions and big muscular men hitting each other through buildings
Isn't Dragonball Z inspired by some chinese fantasy genre, wuxia or some shit like that and that's why the characters glow and transform and shoot ki blasts and cultivate super kung fu powers? Wouldn't copying the conventions of that genre without even knowing that the genre exist just create an inauthentic weeaboo experience like every burgerland creator making something "anime-inspired" but too chickenshit to bring over all the little nuances of anime (or even properly copying the artstyle instead of looking like an anatomically correct beanmouth show)
DB turned into way too much of an amalgam of inspiration to classify it as just being inspired by one or two things.
For example, the androids and Trunks would never ever have come to if Toriyama hadn't watched Terminator 2 and loved it.
[...]
Goku is based on Wukong, yes.
>Goku is based
Indeed. However, Goku's in-world origins revealed six years after the manga started is based off of Superman. The character and the story was initially a take on Journey to the West yes, but that was long before they even started with the martial arts having any sort of presence.
>However, Goku's in-world origins revealed six years after the manga started is based off of Superman
OG manga version's only similarity to Superman was "alien child from doomed world crashlands on Earth" and kung fu fantasy had been doing that same thing for decades. Nothing else about the origin was particularly similar. Goku was closer to Momotaro/Peach Boy or Kintaro than Superman.
DBSuper Goku, on the other hand, is almost shot for shot Superman's origin. All that needs to changed is for Bardock to be a BRILLIANT SCIENTIST.
Yeah you're right. I guess "inspired by" is more accurate than "based on".
>DBSuper Goku, on the other hand
I forgot about that. It was originally an extra in the Jaco manga though, so I'm not sure it counts as Super (Unless you count everything DB from the 2010s Super I guess)
>I forgot about that. It was originally an extra in the Jaco manga though, so I'm not sure it counts as Super (Unless you count everything DB from the 2010s Super I guess
The Broly movie from 2018 fully animated Minus
10 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah that's true, but that means Minus came before.
I'm just being nitpicky of course, but yeah.
10 months ago
Anonymous
And yes it was blatantly obvious that Jor El, father of Kakarot-El, was aping Superman that time around
I had been saying since the late 90s that OG origin Goku was NOT Japanese Superman and that was the English dub writing him that way. I don't even bother nowadays because Toriyama straight up lifted Superman's backstory rendering those years of Hong Kong movie/comic sperging for nothing
10 months ago
Anonymous
At least when it was just Minus, I could pretend it was just an alternative interpretation for a silly 16-page bonus chapter of a different manga. The entire first act of Super:Broly and its 100 million box office returns isn't easy to ignore dammit.
Dragon Ball is the most “I do what I want” manga that isn’t a parody. It is honestly really fun to read Dragon Ball and map out what Toriyama was into at the time. >Muscle Tower
He was watching Terminator >Frieza
You sure like Alien didn’t you, Toriyama
For the transformations while the great Ape was inspired by Wu Kong Super Saiyan was done so they didn’t have to color Goku’s hair
>Dragon Ball is the most “I do what I want” manga that isn’t a parody
That's literally what most old shounen, and even some new ones are. That's why they were so fun. No rules. Just funny things happening. Like silver age capeshit.
>even properly copying the artstyle instead of looking like an anatomically correct beanmouth show)
I don’t get this. Somebody enlighten me. I've had peers draw anime styles so perfectly that one had been passed off as official art.
Why then does "American anime" or "French anime" (animesque anime in that case) look like some el atrocidad hybrid that's neither as appealing as western stylized art or standard anime look?
Teen Titans I could kinda get as trying to cross anime with the DCAU look of the 90s and early 00s, but other examples that make it to TV are so blatantly that weirdo discount "learn how to draw anime book" look.
Why can't American studios just straight up pull off the anime look?
why these days is always "inspired by anime" in western cartoons? i barely see anime inspired in western cartoons and don't tell me panty & stocking that is 13 years old
Inspiration from burgertoons in anime still happens.
At its worst, though, you get the One Piece/Dragon Ball Super "super deformation squash and stretch" that got royally annoying
Because anime is superior in every way to today's westoid cartoons?
Their movies have great animation, sure, but the everyday cartoon is garbage.
Everytime they need something animated in a cool way they literally brag about getting japanese animators to do it because they simply don't know how to animate anymore.
Corporations have made it so that profit is the most important thing so they use the cheapest shittiest tools instead of actually drawing things like japs. Also the women are attractive and there are no forced darkies.
I've been re watching the first 100 one piece episodes, it's amazing how many Hannah Barbera sound effects they use when Luffy does anything in the ship.
I know people were real divided on gear 5 and the retcons made for it can obviously be debated but as an evolution of Luffy I think it is incredibly fitting.
i'm a second-hand One Piece enjoyer (my younger brother is a lifelong fan so i get most of my news from him) and I fricking love gear 5. It seems to fit perfectly.
Also happy to hear that my favourites Buggy and Vivi are apparently having lots of screen time now.
I really hope that Oda does something with Vivi. She still gets way more attention then any character that was left behind especially when you look at the cover stories. I love her as a character and in rereading OP at work I remember how attached I got to her.
10 months ago
Anonymous
It really feels like Vivi was going to be a crew member but Oda got cold feet at the last second
10 months ago
Anonymous
He honestly probably didn’t know what to do with the character at the time which if so it was best he write her off for a bit. Character bloat is a real issue in OP and in comic/manga in general so restraint is good imo. I do think he has big plans for her give how the manga is going but I haven’t read the new arc yet as I am rereading everything from scratch (currently at Skypia).
I’m also on that youtube banner hopium
>i barely see anime inspired in western cartoons
Anime itself took extreme influence from Western animation in its early days, Dragon Ball DIRECTLY ripped its origin from Superman funnily enough. The difference is that modern Western animation is fricking shit, so Japan rarely adopts influences from it.
Because there's a fundamental difference between "inspiration" and the crew jumping up and down to say "LOOK GUYS WE'VE SEEN ANIME!"
Anime inspiration on Western cartoons has been huge since the 1990s, but outside of stuff like direct parodies, it always felt more like just an inspiration.
Once you get to the mid-2010s, they keep jumping to doing thing like shot for shot magical girl transformations and "super" forms. They can't put a mecha in without turning to the camera, winking, and saying "get it guys, it's like Evangelion or Gundam!"
This is the point we've reached.
>even properly copying the artstyle instead of looking like an anatomically correct beanmouth show)
I don’t get this. Somebody enlighten me. I've had peers draw anime styles so perfectly that one had been passed off as official art.
Why then does "American anime" or "French anime" (animesque anime in that case) look like some el atrocidad hybrid that's neither as appealing as western stylized art or standard anime look?
Teen Titans I could kinda get as trying to cross anime with the DCAU look of the 90s and early 00s, but other examples that make it to TV are so blatantly that weirdo discount "learn how to draw anime book" look.
Why can't American studios just straight up pull off the anime look?
said, they take all this from anime but apply it to CalArts beanmouth of generic anatomically correct cartoons. There's no feasible way we can’t completely mimic the bug-eyed anime look or that weird way it animates, but no one does that.
Also
I just wanna an American action cartoon that has a western artstyle again everything gotta be this ugly anime or half anime looking shit like if you're gonna be anime inspired at least do something cool and unique and still western looking like the guy who did the art for Jackie Chan and The Batman.
Imagine a western action cartoon inspired by Frank Frazetta. That would be dope
>Imagine a western action cartoon inspired by Frank Frazetta. That would be dope
Yeah it would, hell I take something cartoony, I'm just tired of this pseudo anime shit, like Young Justice is one of the ugliest shows I've seen.
>Imagine a western action cartoon inspired by Frank Frazetta. That would be dope
Indeed. Instead of trying to copy anime, we should be bringing our own new styles to the table and thinking outside of the box in terms of aesthetics. I know Frazetta is old as frick, but trying to animate his style sounds great. It won't happen though, suits are a bunch of greedy and incompetent fricks.
> Once you get to the mid-2010s, they keep jumping to doing thing like shot for shot magical girl transformations and "super" forms.
That Starfire magical girl transformation really took me out of that Teen Titans movie.
I just wanna an American action cartoon that has a western artstyle again everything gotta be this ugly anime or half anime looking shit like if you're gonna be anime inspired at least do something cool and unique and still western looking like the guy who did the art for Jackie Chan and The Batman.
I think people shat on it because the character designs sucked, if it was classic TMNT designs with the same artstyle, people like it imo artstyle not bad the designs are.
I still like Dragon Ball Super. It is pure fun. Too bad Toyotaro has spent most of the year doing a Super Hero retelling, I cannot wait for the new arc.
It's honestly a shame that you can't really talk about it because of how fricking horrifically cancerous the fanbase became. Latin American internet access was a mistake.
>inspiration from an*me
I had no expectations, and I'm still disappointed.
>Superman
>Ripping off DBZ
>Again
This is why comics will always live in the shadow of manga
>Goku's origin is ripped wholesale from Superman
>but it's okay when Japan does it
delusional tr/a/nny tourist, as always
>a movie with a limited release did worse than a movie with a full release
KWAB!! DCucks are funny.
>but it's okay when Japan does it
said no one ever
pretty much everyone agrees that the retcon to make him more like superman is fricking moronic and a result of the original authors alzheimers
Isn't Dragonball Z inspired by some chinese fantasy genre, wuxia or some shit like that and that's why the characters glow and transform and shoot ki blasts and cultivate super kung fu powers? Wouldn't copying the conventions of that genre without even knowing that the genre exist just create an inauthentic weeaboo experience like every burgerland creator making something "anime-inspired" but too chickenshit to bring over all the little nuances of anime (or even properly copying the artstyle instead of looking like an anatomically correct beanmouth show)
Goku is based on Wukong, yes.
Weird way of spelling Superman
Was the "your father was an average fighter but a brilliant scientist" line from the Ocean dub supposed to be a reference to Superman?
Yea.
There were several things in both dubs trying to make him similar to Supes. The dubbed Super Saiyan speech also comes to mind
>"discount Superman"
These days, Goku is literally more popular than Superman.
Hispanic opinions do not matter.
>Isn't Dragonball Z inspired by some chinese fantasy genre, wuxia or some shit like that and that's why the characters glow and transform and shoot ki blasts and cultivate super kung fu powers?
You think literally any Amerifatt knows what wuxia is? They just like DBZ for the screaming and explosions and big muscular men hitting each other through buildings
DB turned into way too much of an amalgam of inspiration to classify it as just being inspired by one or two things.
For example, the androids and Trunks would never ever have come to if Toriyama hadn't watched Terminator 2 and loved it.
>Goku is based
Indeed. However, Goku's in-world origins revealed six years after the manga started is based off of Superman. The character and the story was initially a take on Journey to the West yes, but that was long before they even started with the martial arts having any sort of presence.
>However, Goku's in-world origins revealed six years after the manga started is based off of Superman
OG manga version's only similarity to Superman was "alien child from doomed world crashlands on Earth" and kung fu fantasy had been doing that same thing for decades. Nothing else about the origin was particularly similar. Goku was closer to Momotaro/Peach Boy or Kintaro than Superman.
DBSuper Goku, on the other hand, is almost shot for shot Superman's origin. All that needs to changed is for Bardock to be a BRILLIANT SCIENTIST.
Yeah you're right. I guess "inspired by" is more accurate than "based on".
>DBSuper Goku, on the other hand
I forgot about that. It was originally an extra in the Jaco manga though, so I'm not sure it counts as Super (Unless you count everything DB from the 2010s Super I guess)
>I forgot about that. It was originally an extra in the Jaco manga though, so I'm not sure it counts as Super (Unless you count everything DB from the 2010s Super I guess
The Broly movie from 2018 fully animated Minus
Yeah that's true, but that means Minus came before.
I'm just being nitpicky of course, but yeah.
And yes it was blatantly obvious that Jor El, father of Kakarot-El, was aping Superman that time around
I had been saying since the late 90s that OG origin Goku was NOT Japanese Superman and that was the English dub writing him that way. I don't even bother nowadays because Toriyama straight up lifted Superman's backstory rendering those years of Hong Kong movie/comic sperging for nothing
At least when it was just Minus, I could pretend it was just an alternative interpretation for a silly 16-page bonus chapter of a different manga. The entire first act of Super:Broly and its 100 million box office returns isn't easy to ignore dammit.
Dragon Ball is the most “I do what I want” manga that isn’t a parody. It is honestly really fun to read Dragon Ball and map out what Toriyama was into at the time.
>Muscle Tower
He was watching Terminator
>Frieza
You sure like Alien didn’t you, Toriyama
For the transformations while the great Ape was inspired by Wu Kong Super Saiyan was done so they didn’t have to color Goku’s hair
>Dragon Ball is the most “I do what I want” manga that isn’t a parody
That's literally what most old shounen, and even some new ones are. That's why they were so fun. No rules. Just funny things happening. Like silver age capeshit.
>even properly copying the artstyle instead of looking like an anatomically correct beanmouth show)
I don’t get this. Somebody enlighten me. I've had peers draw anime styles so perfectly that one had been passed off as official art.
Why then does "American anime" or "French anime" (animesque anime in that case) look like some el atrocidad hybrid that's neither as appealing as western stylized art or standard anime look?
Teen Titans I could kinda get as trying to cross anime with the DCAU look of the 90s and early 00s, but other examples that make it to TV are so blatantly that weirdo discount "learn how to draw anime book" look.
Why can't American studios just straight up pull off the anime look?
A fundamental misunderstanding of the Japanese style. People who just know that anime is popular, so they do a subpar xerox job and call it a day.
Ah, so will Pa Kent ask to motorboat Lois' breasts all the time?
why these days is always "inspired by anime" in western cartoons? i barely see anime inspired in western cartoons and don't tell me panty & stocking that is 13 years old
Because Anime is superior. Anyone who tries to deny this is simply coping, and I don't even watch anime
Inspiration from burgertoons in anime still happens.
At its worst, though, you get the One Piece/Dragon Ball Super "super deformation squash and stretch" that got royally annoying
>Inspiration from burgertoons in anime still happens.
>Pic
Madoka magica's anime is 12 years old.
Huh? That was a cartoon reference? I have always thought that it was a simple cereal mascot reference. Interesting.
Because anime is superior in every way to today's westoid cartoons?
Their movies have great animation, sure, but the everyday cartoon is garbage.
Everytime they need something animated in a cool way they literally brag about getting japanese animators to do it because they simply don't know how to animate anymore.
Corporations have made it so that profit is the most important thing so they use the cheapest shittiest tools instead of actually drawing things like japs.
Also the women are attractive and there are no forced darkies.
Luffy's new transformation in One Piece is Looney Tunes powers
I've been re watching the first 100 one piece episodes, it's amazing how many Hannah Barbera sound effects they use when Luffy does anything in the ship.
I know people were real divided on gear 5 and the retcons made for it can obviously be debated but as an evolution of Luffy I think it is incredibly fitting.
i'm a second-hand One Piece enjoyer (my younger brother is a lifelong fan so i get most of my news from him) and I fricking love gear 5. It seems to fit perfectly.
Also happy to hear that my favourites Buggy and Vivi are apparently having lots of screen time now.
I really hope that Oda does something with Vivi. She still gets way more attention then any character that was left behind especially when you look at the cover stories. I love her as a character and in rereading OP at work I remember how attached I got to her.
It really feels like Vivi was going to be a crew member but Oda got cold feet at the last second
He honestly probably didn’t know what to do with the character at the time which if so it was best he write her off for a bit. Character bloat is a real issue in OP and in comic/manga in general so restraint is good imo. I do think he has big plans for her give how the manga is going but I haven’t read the new arc yet as I am rereading everything from scratch (currently at Skypia).
I’m also on that youtube banner hopium
>i barely see anime inspired in western cartoons
Anime itself took extreme influence from Western animation in its early days, Dragon Ball DIRECTLY ripped its origin from Superman funnily enough. The difference is that modern Western animation is fricking shit, so Japan rarely adopts influences from it.
Because there's a fundamental difference between "inspiration" and the crew jumping up and down to say "LOOK GUYS WE'VE SEEN ANIME!"
Anime inspiration on Western cartoons has been huge since the 1990s, but outside of stuff like direct parodies, it always felt more like just an inspiration.
Once you get to the mid-2010s, they keep jumping to doing thing like shot for shot magical girl transformations and "super" forms. They can't put a mecha in without turning to the camera, winking, and saying "get it guys, it's like Evangelion or Gundam!"
This is the point we've reached.
>has been huge since the 1990s
Try the 1950s, Osmau Tezuka was directly inspired by Disney.
And yet as
said, they take all this from anime but apply it to CalArts beanmouth of generic anatomically correct cartoons. There's no feasible way we can’t completely mimic the bug-eyed anime look or that weird way it animates, but no one does that.
Also
Imagine a western action cartoon inspired by Frank Frazetta. That would be dope
>Imagine a western action cartoon inspired by Frank Frazetta. That would be dope
Yeah it would, hell I take something cartoony, I'm just tired of this pseudo anime shit, like Young Justice is one of the ugliest shows I've seen.
The studio that did Boondocks and ATLA/Korra came close, but even that felt like pseudo anime. Maybe it's differences in how we animate?
>Maybe it's differences in how we animate?
>we
you don't animate shit, SK's studios do all the work.
>Imagine a western action cartoon inspired by Frank Frazetta. That would be dope
Indeed. Instead of trying to copy anime, we should be bringing our own new styles to the table and thinking outside of the box in terms of aesthetics. I know Frazetta is old as frick, but trying to animate his style sounds great. It won't happen though, suits are a bunch of greedy and incompetent fricks.
That isn’t safe enough Anon. Anime is confirmed popular
> Once you get to the mid-2010s, they keep jumping to doing thing like shot for shot magical girl transformations and "super" forms.
That Starfire magical girl transformation really took me out of that Teen Titans movie.
I just wanna an American action cartoon that has a western artstyle again everything gotta be this ugly anime or half anime looking shit like if you're gonna be anime inspired at least do something cool and unique and still western looking like the guy who did the art for Jackie Chan and The Batman.
Rise of the TMNT was great and super expressive but everyone shat on it because of (comics-accurate) black April.
I think people shat on it because the character designs sucked, if it was classic TMNT designs with the same artstyle, people like it imo artstyle not bad the designs are.
April was based on Kevin East man’s ex wife April Fisher and while she was mixed (don’t know what race) she was not a dark skinned woman
I still like Dragon Ball Super. It is pure fun. Too bad Toyotaro has spent most of the year doing a Super Hero retelling, I cannot wait for the new arc.
It's honestly a shame that you can't really talk about it because of how fricking horrifically cancerous the fanbase became. Latin American internet access was a mistake.
To be fair the anime/manga canon split just feels like fuel to the fire for those kinds of fans.
DBZ is timeless