We love to say dc/marvel fricked up but this has got to be the biggest of all frick ups, possibly irreversible. The righteous guy made a pact with the devil. Even if you retcon it, people wont forget.
Name a bigger frick up by the big 2
We love to say dc/marvel fricked up but this has got to be the biggest of all frick ups, possibly irreversible. The righteous guy made a pact with the devil. Even if you retcon it, people wont forget.
Sue Dibny
It blew my fricking mind when I finally read that story and found out that the rape thing wasn't even the main part, or worst part. What the frick were they thinking. They could have told the whole brainwashing story in so many ways that wouldn't have thrown her and Ralph into a meatgrinder.
Eh, she and Ralph were ultimately very inconsequential characters.
All that did was make them unusable in the long run, which isn't a big loss for DC, shame about the 13 Elongated Man fans tho.
>They could have told the whole brainwashing story in so many ways that wouldn't have thrown her and Ralph into a meatgrinder.
But anon, that was like half the point of Identity Crisis, DC really wanted to be dark and edgy, specially with two of their most wholesome characters, they specifically wanted to do rape before Marvel.
I'm trying to remember, how did EM die?
Yup, came here to say Identity Crisis. /thread right there and then.
Qrd?
Sue was the wife of Elongated Man. In identity Crisis, the main plot was she was killed and there's a panic over someone supposedly going after the loved ones of heroes. One suspect was villain Dr Light, who in a flashback had at one point infiltrated the JL space station where Sue was and raped her. It was basically an edgy moment that added nothing since Light was not the culprit. The real murderer and the motives were much more stupid.
Brad Meltzer was a fricking mistake. I get it seems like a good idea to have an actual novelist write capeshit but then he poisons the well by introducing rape and mind erasing to the JLA.
Is there a DC Crisis event that was seen by more as good than bad?
Whenever a new one was announced, the general thought process is wondering, "is this somehow going to be even more stupid than the last one?"
No. The one with the least complaints is Zero Hour because it's the most forgettable. But in our heart of hearts, we must admit that Flashpoint had its moments.
I don't remember any comic event that was seen as more good than bad whatsoever, the first secret wars had terrible reviews and caused massive damage to Marvel cosmology that to this day still have constant huge retcons and pointless changes
Which kinda fit the Beyonder, he's so powerful that he ruined Marvel forever simply by existing and continue to do so and no one can stop him
Infinity gauntlet
It's just another plot created to keep the comic book industry from going sterile.
Too bad it had the opposite effect
It was literally Marvel attempting to reset Spider-Man to an earlier status quo because he changed too much from their childhood
for like the 3rd time. I remember John Byrne did just as bad with Spider-man Chapter One
I don't understand how the FF get to marry, have kids and generally grow little by little but Spiderman can't. seems hypocritical and kinda stupid given that they share the same universe.
Because Reed and Sue were married when THEY first read the comics.
All this sober businessmen making the hard decisions bullshit is a total LARP. There's a reason Dan Slott went from a Gordon Gekko wannabe on CBR saying 'the only thing that matters is the sales and we should only do what sells' to 'w-well Amazing Spider-Man is still selling good enough so you should just leave it alone...' when new Ultimate took off.
I mean, bear in mind that Slott is very much one of the people that has dragged the FF into the next stage of being a growing family, letting Valeria and Franklin get older, making Johnny worry that he's going to end up alone at this rate, and having Alicia and Ben get married and adopt the best and most adorable child soldiers ever. I'm not about to absolve him from blame with the current state of Peter's love life, but I doubt he's one of the true obstacles to undoing OMD.
>and having Alicia and Ben get married and adopt the best and most adorable child soldiers ever.
That was fricking awful the brats are terrible characters, nevermind how 2 of them at once already makes them far more distant to Grimm and harder to properly write their relationship with him than if it was only one
>Big chunk of thread is anons angry at Joe Q for not wanting Peter to grow up and have a loving wife & kids
>Anon is unhappy that Slott gave Ben Grimm a loving wife and kids
Pottery.
Going to have to strongly disagree with you. N'kalla and Jo are my second-favorite thing added to FF in years and years.
Ben "has put up with way too much space bullshit" Grimm adopting the living embodiments of the end of the Kree-Skrull war is just great, and I've enjoyed the interactions enough to ALMOST make up for stupid things in the past few years.
My #1 favorite thing from the last few years of FF has to be Johnny managing to frick up his own pseudo-marriage by fricking Doom's fiancé. 10/10 Johnny frickup. Even managed to work Lyja in there somehow.
It was funny when he and his alt account tried desperately to downplay the Peter/MJ appearance in X-Men 97
bloody heck, Slott is such a two faced moron. He told marriage fans to buy books strategically to send a message, and now that they did exactly what he literally told them to do, then he turns around and says "nope, nothing you can do will change anything."
I'm still baffled that anyone thinks it's his call though. Man's only a writer, they don't decide anything "important" these days. Haven't since Crisis.
because Lee and Kirby did it, the same reason the O5 X-Men keep getting wanked off despite nobody actually caring about that era
>O5 X-Men keep getting wanked off
Do they though? It's really just Scott and Jean
Hank has been getting shat on for the better part of two decades
Bobby has done nothing but become gay
And I can't think of a single thing done with Warren that is of note
More like Writers dont know how to write a marriage or kids.
Not securing copyrights for 'Captain Marvel' by DC
Putting out a new logo for your brand, then suing an existing shoe company for its logo now looking like yours and then getting sued by said shoe brand because...not securing copyrights by DC
I thought Marvel’s Captain Marvel series started in the late 60s, after Fawcett went under but a few years before DC bought and revived Fawcett’s Captain Marvel.
remembered when DC tried suing a football club for having a bat as it symbol, even though the club predates DC by decades and the bat is a historical symbol of the city
There are a lot of bats in that area so it makes sense.
fricking homosexuals
its like a recurring gag
Idk, not finding the contract that Archie and Ken Penders had to secure their copyright on their characters is more of a frick up.
Archie's not part of the Big Two. That term refers to Marvel and DC.
Sega was actively avoiding using SOA stuff for Sonic even before shit went down, it only came to attention with Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, which was a very unprofessional, sub par outsourced game.
I'm surprised they have not regressed Peter back to high school with how much Disney wants to portray him as the teenage hero in all other media.
I kind of wonder what 90s Marvel would have looked like if they didn't go full speculator boom and focused on 5 different variant foil covers for a single issue, 3D cardboard covers, books bagged with cards and other collectables etc. That eventually led to bankruptcy and cancelling of half the titles.
Could Thunderstrike, Darkhawk, New Warriors, and Avengers West Coast last a little longer, maybe even become something lasting?
Avengers West Coast wouldn't have lasted. Someone in editorial, I believe it was Brevoort, fricking hated that book because it "hogged" big characters like Iron Man and Hank Pym that should have been in the main book
So the problem is that the talent is stupid and the management doesn't stop them as much as the speculation is?
Variants weren't Marvel's issue in the 90s. The biggest problem they had was trying to be a distributor on top of publisher but they had no idea how to do that let alone even a fraction of the needed logistics to accomplish it. They nearly bankrupted themselves off that expansion alone which was just coumpounded as the bubble burst on the speculator market and readership nose dived.
They invested a lot of money into a project they had no idea how to finish and their source of income was dramatically reduced in a very short timeframe.
I know everyone loves to boogyman variant covers but they are not nearly as big of a deal as people make them out to be. (And tthey're actually hella lucrative for LCS that know what they are doing)
Marvel's owner from the late 80s to mid 90s had the plan of the company doing everything in-house instead of licensing merch out to other companies. They got themselves into massive debt buying up trading card companies, a toy company, a comic distribution company and more, so they could do everything themselves. Then the crash happened and they were in massive debt they couldn't work their way out of anymore. If it hadn't happened, they'd likely have tried buying a videogame company as well, and comic retailers at the time were terrified of the prospect of Marvel launching their own chain of stores, even though they denied having plans to do so.
IIRC the distribution company they bought was only a regional company, and just didn't have the capabilities for national distribution, let alone international, and it was a side of the industry Marvel's own people had no idea how to manage.
Gimmick covers were a thing Marvel did in the 90s, but not variant covers so much. In the late '90s they had an initiative where every #2 would have a variant cover, as an incentive to try and minimize sales drops from #1 to #2, but they didn't really get into the RARE LIMITED COLLECTOR'S ITEM VARIANT game in a big way until the 2000s. It happened occasionally, but it wasn't an integral part of their business model the way it's become.
Nah, they lasted past spec boom. I wonder what they would have been like if they gave the Image bunch their due.
Stop crying over it already. It was the right move. The wedding was a mistake.
It clearly wasn't. The only mistake was allowing people like Quesada and Brevoort to climb as high up in the company as they did.
Ok Mephisto
Frick off, you geriatric Marvel employee.
Even if you believe the wedding was a mistake, you have to concede that having the flagship character sell his marriage to the devil was a massive mistake.
All the times Superman got unmarried to Lois was just because they reset the universe and it didn't reflect anything on Superman as a character, it was just DC going "yeah whatever we're doing this now."
Marvel's flagship character now has his soul beholden to a supervillain and is believing false memories implanted by that supervillain. There are a million ways they could have ended the marriage that wouldn't have resulted in the clusterfrick they left the characters and fans stuck in.
Marvel editorial keep doing this shit without ever learning from their mistakes, like the time they insisted on having Scott Summers walk out on Madelyne Pryor the moment they mandated the return of Jean Grey, in effect turning Scott into a heel without realizing that's what they were doing.
Having Cyclops marry a woman he met like six issues earlier and who looks just like Jean Grey was always a moronic plot from day one, someone should have stopped this long before it got to the point of them being married with a kid, and that's regardless of whether Jean eventually comes back or not.
Go back to bed, Brevoort.
Anon, I'm sorry you happened to start reading back then, but you're an old man now. Take five minutes to think about it again as a grown up and recognize how stupid and messed up that was.
Go back to shilling From the Ashes.
>everyone who doesn't blindly like and worship everything Claremont did, even the really moronic or fetishistic stuff, is Tom Brevoort
>everyone who didn't ship Cyclops/Emma is Jordan White
>everyone who didn't like Krakoa is also Tom Brevoort
This is why nobody can take you people seriously.
Oh, my apologies. I didn't realize Joe Quesada posted here too.
Surprised no one is bothered by Cyclops just giving up on his brother Gabriel even though he was aware he was mentally fricked up by that mission.
Way more surprised Scott didn't go after him when he murdered their father. At that point, regardless of how he got fricked up, there was no return.
And then they had Scott just be alright with him in the Krakoa shitshow.
I never read this story so reading about it on wikipedia is pretty fricking funny
>Scott was going to move on. Jean was dead get on with your life. And it was close to a happy ending. They lived happily ever after, and it was to create the impression that maybe if you came back in ten years, other X-Men would have grown up and out, too. Would Kitty stay with the team forever? Would Nightcrawler? Would any of them? Because that way we could evolve them into new directions, we could bring in new characters. There would be an ongoing sense of renewal, and growth and change in a positive sense.
>Then, unfortunately, Jean was resurrected, Scott dumps his wife and kid and goes back to the old girlfriend. So it not only destroys Scott's character as a hero and as a decent human being it creates an untenable structural situation: what do we do with Madelyne and the kid? ... So ultimately the resolution was: turn her into the Goblin Queen and kill her off.
Marvel really has been run by a bunch of morons for at least 40 years.
That's mostly Claremont's idea of what he wanted for the line. Fans wouldn't be that keen on what he wanted.
The way they handled it in the storyline could have been better, yes. Peter Parker selling anything to the devil was a bad idea. But the story itself has been basically ignored since it came out, and the Brand New Day status quo was still the right move.
Compare that to every major event DC has done in the last 15 years and it's not even close. It's like if Marvel had taken Heroes Reborn then doubled down on it again and again and again.
This is historical revisionism propagated by pro-Quesada zealots who actually think that One More Day saved the franchise when in reality it damaged it heavily. Quesada being willing to eat bad sales while man-children like Slott and Wells continued to further ruin the character of Peter Parker does not mean the Brand New Day status quo was the right decision. It was simply the only decision that allowed self-inserters to vicariously relive fantastical versions of their youth through a fictional character.
Brand New Day and Slott's run do not hold up well at all.
>But the story itself has been basically ignored since it came out
Why would you just lie? It's been referenced over and over
Don't forget he sold his unborn daughter to the devil.
You forgot the part where it all happened because a single normal bullet hit Aunt May SO HARD that NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THE ENTIRE MARVEL UNIVEERSE COULD SAVE HER.
NOT IRON MAN
NOT REED RICHARDS
NOT DOCTOR FRICKING STRANGE SORCERER SUPREME
NOBODY!
And then because Peter can not for the life of him let go of Aunt May.
I just got done re-reading the wedding arc. Frick you.
I like this story, but I can't disagree. It did bad damage to Supergirl and Powergirl, amongst others.
As a kid who grew up with a married Spidey it was a great role model to try to marry a hot fearless redhead. I thank him for it every morning I wake up with my wife.
>Let's have Spider-Man make a deal with the devil instead of just getting a divorce
Yeah sure....
>Stop crying over it already. It was the right move. The wedding was a mistake.
I Agree with this Peter being married to MJ was a mistake don't get me wrong I did want him to be married just not with her. It should have been betty, maybe Gwen or somebody else but definitely not MJ.
Shut the frick up, Dan
I'll fight you Dan
>Stop crying over it already. It was the right move. The wedding was a mistake.
supposedly one of the reasons they did it was so MJ didn't drag them down and Peter could have new romantic partners
now lets list those partners
>Carly Cooper
>MJ again
>Felicia from moment to moment that ends up in nothing
wow, a totally worth trade-off
I can name bigger ones, but none that did as much damage.
The New 52.
A decade of stories about stories to explain away the mess this initiative made of DCU continuity.
I'd say it goes back to OYL and the "jump one year forward" that writers didn't want and couldn't agree on.
What was wrong with OYL?
For every book that suffered from the jump (Flash, Nightwing, Teen Titans) there were books that made the most of the change (Action Comics, Manhunter, Justice League).
OYL was what we had to endure to get 52 which was comics as they should be.
Nobody cares about maria puta, sales actually increased
Yeah, but now peter has done a deal with the devil
nah they didn't
No they didn't. lol
Comic sales are at an all time low,
Civil War is what ruined Marvel as a whole and what One More Day spun out of. If it's not this it's COIE and Secret Wars, which were fine enough stories on their own but are the original sin of events.
>the original sin of events
Speaking of, Original Sin was peak moronation.
>ok, what if we made an event JUST to introduce retcons? and not a single one anyone will like?
I mean it was bad but New 52 was even worse and it affected the entire DC universe and since Rebirth didn't fully erased it the damage is still there
it's not fricked up enough yet
Anyone got the one with Jackie Chan and Uncle?
Kanigher's entire 20+ year run with Wonder Woman. The guy even objected to Amazons being warriors and trued retconning them to be a bunch of women left behind when all the soldier menfolk died. Just a disaster the characters never recovered from.
>Kanigher's entire 20+ year run with Wonder Woman. The guy even objected to Amazons being warriors and trued retconning them to be a bunch of women left behind when all the soldier menfolk died. Just a disaster the characters never recovered from.
Huh. Not something I would've immediately thought of, but I think this might actually be a winner. A character with worldwide recognition so thoroughly broken by one guy that there's not even consensus on her basic powers or origin.
No, the real problem was getting rid of depowered kung fu Emma Peel Wonder Woman after just a few issues. The readers demand Kung Fu!
That's just a bad story to get Spider-Man to a more evergreen and creator and reader friendly status quo.
It hasn't hurt Spider-Man one bit and isn't even a footnote in grander Marvel Universe. Marvel
Doomsday Clock, Dark Knights Metal, Infinite Frontier and Dark Crisis broke DC at a narrative level, all trying to solve the problem Convergence created.
Making everything canon has rendered nothing canon.
Frick off, Quesada
If it's such a reader friendly decision, then how come there's barely any new readers?
>Name a bigger frick up by the big 2
Crisis on Infinite Earths is the greatest self-inflicted wound in comics history, junking decades of rich storytelling to please a handful of unimportant continuity wonks and locking DC into the self-destructive pattern of hitting the reset button to create short cash spikes, burning out creatives and readers alike and resulting in diminishing monetary returns for the company over time.
Preach
This is the obvious winner. OMD's damage is limited to Spider-Man. COIE's damage touches every DC comic and spans 39 years.
New Earth was a great idea. Could you imagine a DCU without the reset? No Batman: Year One? No Man of Steel? It would be ass.
>Could you imagine a DCU without the reset?
Yes.
>No Batman: Year One?
Could've been published as an Elseworlds, but it's minor Miller and would no great loss if it'd never gotten greenlit.
>No Man of Steel?
No one actually likes Byrne's Superman.
>but it's minor Miller and would no great loss if it'd never gotten greenlit.
It would have been a tremendous loss, since it's one of the very few actually great comics from either Marvel or DC.
Coie didn't start any of those things.
What started every single thing you said was when they abandoned the original version of DC universe, the "golden age" one. When they got rid of Jay Garrick and replaced him for Barry for no reason, when they created a new Superman rather than changing his personality through a bit of character growth.
And then they had to bring back all the golden age characters anyway through a forced retcon that never fully solved the issue.
>Coie didn't start any of those things.
It actually did. What you're talking about is the timeline splitting into two divergent timelines that ran parallel to each other, not junking past stories wholesale because continuity freaks were sperging out over the calendar of Dick Grayson's college life not mapping onto Batman's adventures.
Dick's time at Hudson mapped up to Batman fine. It was all handled by the same editors in the same books. It wasn't till the NTT and the introduction of Jason Todd when it started to slip.
You're vastly incorrect about the nature of comics in the Golden Age. They weren't written or created as if they were a part of a grander shared universe, and the silver age reinventions weren't created with the idea that originals were characters either.
Serendipity brought the multiverse together.
Barry Allen The Flash, named himself after Jay Garrick The Flash comics he liked, he didn't know Garrick was a real person in another universe.
Why couldnt the people writing in the 60s just let the 40s in the past
I don't know if it was really the biggest frick up, but the fact it make people to be nostalgic about Spider-man's status from 90's is a good showcase of how despised the change is.
Because DC never cared about a rigid continuity. They tried to emulate Marvel storytelling and backfired spectaculary.
This. DC didn't really give a shit about continuity until the mid to late 70's when fans started giving them shit about books that contradicted each other.
They wanted to do Crisis in '81 '82 after they introduced the Monitor but it took an editor 3 years read every comic to catalog every version of every character they owned. By the time he was done they decided to wait another year just so they could do COIE for the 50th anniversary.
>fans started giving them shit about books that contradicted each other.
It's worth emphasizing that this was a vanishingly small number of loudmouths and that if DC had stuck to their guns and told them to frick off, we'd still be reading books with strong roots extending all the way back into the 1930s and 1950s instead of having to deal with endless moronic resets.
>we'd still be reading books with strong roots extending all the way back into the 1930s and 1950s
There is no roots if there is no continuity though, the writers would just randomly make it a completely different comic, it would just be a name.
Anon, what the frick are you talking about?
? You said "roots", there are no "roots" without continuity, which part don't you get? What does roots even mean to you?
You're too dumb to read comics.
So you are a butthurt moron, got it.
You have to be over 18 to post here, child. Go read some pre-COIE comics till you're old enough to talk about comics without writing the editor over meaningless inconsistencies.
Not even Marvel gave much of a frick about continuity, it was absolutely not a single long story but rather a loosely tied shared universe, that's why there are several different Martian species or several different origins for the universe that are btw not "legends" or beliefs but events shown on panel with direct consequences to the present, when Captain America joined the avengers his golden age runs were often seen to be canon and then it was stated to be pure fiction in universe but his adventures with Namor were still totally canon.
Too much focus on canon ruined both Marvel and DC, now every run heavily rely on the previous one no matter how much some try to insist you can start at any run you want.
You are correct about Marvel having a loose continuity, but then DC doubled down and tried to establish a more coherent continuity without loose ends, which led to continuos frick ups after Crisis.
You didn't refute anything to the comment you just replied.
>please a handful of unimportant continuity wonks
With all due respect, I think you're underselling just how damn ridiculous things were getting thanks to writers going "no, no, it's fine, I know this story doesn't work in the universe that I usually write, but sometimes I write in a different universe that looks a lot like it!" Factor in multiple books and different writers, and that's not sustainable for any real amount of time without causing frickups left and right.
Someone finally said it.
https://comicsalliance.com/dc-comics-marvel-golden-age-silver-age-comics-history/
The Big 2 want to be too many things to too many people too much, too often. Trying to please everyone all the time.
"in an effort to appeal to a wider audience" is the death knell of creative works.
It’s funny how much of an essential read everyone says it is while the actual book is fricking boring as all hell.
But it’s the needed kind of cynicism so that a person doesn’t invest too much into comics.
OMD is apart of a line of huge Marvel frick ups, along with Avengers Disassembled, House of M & Civil War.
Crisis is a frick up much like Flashpoint/New 52 is a frick up: DC failed the follow through.
>OMD is apart of a line of huge Marvel frick ups, along with Avengers Disassembled, House of M & Civil War.
And these were when Marvel was selling well.
They've only fricked themselves harder since then.
There is a Myth that the reason of why every fricking Western and Japanese media has their own CRISIS level event til this day since the original event happened, is that the shockwave caused by the Aftermath once Barry and the AM Machine merged together and exploded, Is Echoing all over the entire Creation til this day.
All Fictional universes since then has been going through their CRISIS level events since then.
The CRISIS is inevitable.
Name one crisis level event in japanese media
The Kamen Riders mega event where past present and future riders met to stop a literal CRISIS level event that threatened the multiverse.
The recent DBS Stuff was also classified as one on the universal scale.
The Nasuverse Shit had one because Mages and Vampires thinks they can frick with the laws of reality like Flashes do. And Kinoko Nasu is a DC and Kamen Rider gay
Jesus Christ Why?
>Myth
Your headcanon ain't that important buddy
Best post shouldn't be this far down the thread, but better late than never.
It gave us two evergreen TPBs in Batman: Year One and Man of Steel, not to mention COIE itself. McFarlane released an Anti-Monitor figure this year in fact.
>All new 52 gave us was no trunks and made the Joker into a failed Halloween mask
They could just have done it like Ultimate Marvel with no event to excuse it like COIE or New 52, as an experiment
Start with origin stories and a few core books like Justice League, then if people like them, expand
So what happened to May Parker? The 616 version? Is she dead? Alive? Erased? In a limbo? In Hell?
She's been in limbo since Byrne's run. That was a plot point mandated by Harras that was never planned to have an ending, he just wanted to bait readers into hoping
That's really fricked up, Peter got a missing daughter, his only child and only relative somewhere and he simply forgot her?
Peter never finds out about Norman's involvement. To Peter she's just dead. I mean still pretty fricked up that he's just moved on and forgotten about her, same with MJ. You'd think counseling over her fake adopted kids would be a great time to bring up her real daughter who died but apparently not
Peter is absolutely obsessed with his dead ex girlfriend, his lost baby daughter was supposed to absoltuely destroy him
Also why didn't he tried to use Mephisto to save her? Why didn't he used Jackal or X-men clone soul tech to save her?
>Also why didn't he tried to use Mephisto to save her?
Because that wasn't in the note from editorial.
Would Spider-Man comics be in a better state today if instead of relentlessly sticking to their guns about OMD, they instead relentlessly stuck to their guns about Ben Reilly being the new, unattached Spider-Man?
Ben Reilly is the most clear case of "you are totally not supposed to bring this character back from the dead seriously he was created to die in this story, you will ruin the entire point of the character if you bring him back, don't do it you stupid frick, just don't" I ever saw
I think there are probably worse choices on like an individual decision level but the fact that they've been steadfast in sticking to this for two decades despite the universally negative reaction from the fanbase is what really elevates it.
One More Day worked well
I am glad we did not get the last 15 years being married spider-man mary-jane drama
Industry bots are out in force today.
So how many Mary Jane comics you checking for
Check deez nutz, Joe.
They're fricking furious that USM is doing well and are trying to aggressively argue that it isn't the marriage that's making it sell
What else would it be?
Yes the past 15 years of unmarried Peter MJ drama have been so much better.
>One More Day worked well
Yeah, but not for Marvel.
no it didn't its the worst continuity retcon in existent Quesada
The bits people actually care about are easily retconnable, or otherwise reversed. Peter and MJ could easily get back together or punch Mephisto in the face, and their deal can be viewed as giving up his own happiness to help May.
I'd say the more terrible frickups are the ones that would require an outright reset to fix, like how Symbiotes have been getting fricked with for the past 10+ years, and they've spread to every inch of Marvel to the point that it's not just easily retconned in one book either. Even then, you can fix the lore, but you can never return to character arcs like what Flash and Venom had in the Remender-Bunn monthly.
Why is MJ still in the comics if they refuse to let them get together.
Because Marvel editorial has always been staffed by people allergic to long-term planning.
They know she's too popular to get rid of for good, and they can keep baiting people with hope that she and Peter will get back together once and for all.
yet ultimate has her and is married to peter and the office is seething about it because its what the fans actually want
There's a lot of stuff in comics that I often have to ask how it made it past several editors. Absurd deaths and characters doing the most outlandish thing. How you can write Spider-man deals with the devil with any shred of self awareness is beyond me. I have never been able to look at Marvel the same way since. And I put up with some dumb shit.
For fans-turned-pros, the reality of working in the business end of the industry probably makes them cynical about comics very quickly.
Letting unqualified wokesters have so much influence.
Eric July is unqualified.
Genuinely has there been any good decisions in the comic book industry in this century besides making omnibuses
>Name a bigger frick up
Jason Todd revival
I considered just bringing up Jon being aged up, but that was just one of the many shitty things Bendis did while at DC.
I find it very infuriating how most of the changes Bendis did at DC were reversed, but they decided to double down on arguably the worst one of them all.
Most characters that get changed this drastically tend to revert back after a while, but with Jon they just doubled down so hard that they just refuse to go back, they refuse to acknowledge how terrible of a decision it was, so now Jon just exists as the gay Superman no one but Taylor wants to do anything with.
That's another stupid thing, Jon is Superman, while Kon is Superboy, so fricking stupid.
To be fair Jon was clearly a mistake by himself, Superman just having a teenager son out of nowhere was such a massive skip of his character growth and progression. Nevermind how they had no plans on what to do with Superman having a family, there was no arcs exploring the new problems he would face by having a superpowered little kid walking around without proper training or good sense, there wans't anything about him and Lois learning how to be parents or how he was truly stuck on earth with no way to ever be with Kryptonians again. Nor there was any reaction from his arch enemies specially Lex and Zod to all those changes.
i fricking hate that homosexual
>What if superman's selfless and heroic dad was alive
Oh okay could be neat
>What if he was a massive fricking butthole and Zod seems like he was right by comparison
Bullshit, also
>What if we had a new ancient kryptonian threat that is TOTALLY not just doomsday guys
Bendis was the worst possible person to have written superman
>What if superman's selfless and heroic dad was alive
Bendis didn't even set that up, it was a leftover from the Rebirth plans they had before Bendis came along.
Originally Jor-El had some Kryptonite radiation in his brain and was being controlled by Mr. Blue Dick to collect people from the DCU.
Bendis just ignored all that and did his own thing.
*that was just one of the many shitty things Bendis did
ftfy
atleast for once Bendis faced actual consequence for his terrible writing, his small stint at DC completely vaporised his career with big comics and the indie scene
nowadays hes mostly cashing checks from Miles Morales
Truly a dark time for Superman.
500k to completely destroy all good will your company had FINALLY pumped back into the brand. Do you think that the executive that hired him was fired?
>Do you think that the executive that hired him was fired?
If you believe EVS, Diane Nelson was the one who did it, but she resigned in March 2018
Other people claim Didio, and he was fired for different reasons in early 2020.
>Truly a dark time for Superman.
Getting worried that they may kill him off again? don't worry they won't been there done that before they are are not going kill him again and revive him for second time.
Here's the funniest thing for me about OMD. I wouldn't be mad about separating Peter and MJ if it wasn't for the fricking deal with the devil.
Really? Would you be happy if Peter and MJ just decided their marriage wasn't good and decided to divorce naturally?
Also I guess Aunt May gets brought back through non-Devil magical means.
Maybe Aunt May should've just stayed dead
I'm fine either way, but the hypothetical was just about removing the "deal with the devil" part of the story.
My thoughts exactally. Can it even be undone?
easy. have the whole thing be a farce Mysterio illusion
>Also I guess Aunt May gets brought back through non-Devil magical means
Or the old bag stays dead because she's like a hundred and twenty now and peter doesn't need to be a child in his aunt's attic for the rest of his fricking life.
Yeah, because Peter making a deal with the devil and MJ encouraging him to go through it is a massive OOC moment for both of them.
Mind you, I don't like the separation thing, but OMD without devil (or even anything over the top like a cosmic retcon) would have made it more acceptable.
It’s funny, at the end of the clone saga the proposal was to use the miscarriage as a catalyst to get them divorced, which is valid but they didn’t do. Hero’s reborn was a reboot for many marvel characters, that could’ve been used as a way of separating Peter and MJ, but they didn’t do it. Secret wars could’ve been used as a way of eliminating OMD and soft rebooting Peter, but they didn’t do it. It’s so strange how often they’ve established TRYING to eliminate the marriage but the ONLY THING they could thing to do is have pete sell his soul and unborn child’s soul to the devil
Yes! He could become a monk, he could cheat on her, he could become gay, i dont care, just dont have a deal woth the devil
Yes? Do you think they would never be able to date again if they divorced by themselves? You could easily just put Peter under a lot of situations where he would be unable to have any contact with MJ for several months that could turn into years or even forever such as a job or superhero adventure which would lead to a reasonable divorce but not a reason for them to never try again in the future
Exactally
Just all of Xmen for the last few years.
Bringing Jean back from the dead certainly is way up there in frick ups.
Letting morrison kill her again was worse, to begin with.
Actually let's not be modest here, that entire run was a huge mistake.
This book has done irreversible damage to Superman, and I'm tired of people pretending otherwise. Superman is seen as a boring and uninteresting character and playing second fiddle to Batman going forward and it all mostly traces back here.
As great a comic book artist as Byrne is, he's absolutely poisonous as a comic writer.
>As great a comic book artist as Byrne is, he's absolutely poisonous as a comic writer.
I'm not going to pretend it was a bigger deal than wrecking higher-profile characters, but what Byrne did to Scarlet Witch and Vision was just pointless malicious spite, and Marvel's refusal to fix it over 30 years later is just unacceptable.
What "damage" did it do exactly?
the only kek crying is you Quesada that everyone rejected it
Kill mj but dont have peter deal with the devil ffs
And have Gwen 2? Peter spending the rest of his days crying he got 2 GFs killed? Nonsense.
Erase his memory of it but you can do without corrupting peter: pur memories cant be erased
>Kill mj
They tried that, it didn't stick
when?
Byrne's run in the very early 2000s
The craziest thing is that it looks bad and they know everyone hates it and they keep teasing it and allowing AUs of it and they screwed over Spencer's run but they still haven't backed down from undoing OMD. I have to admire them for that.
>amazinggays are still crying because UltimateGODS are better than them
Amazing spidercuck sales are too high ,It should be in the bottom.
..as punishment for making a deal with mephisto.
I do wonder how long the Ultimate comics can keep it up.
It ends when the comics hit double digits, like always.
>Amazing SpiderKEK jobbing to Ultimate
All is right.
Did Batman stop selling?
Nobody wants to read about poorcuck Batman.
God, Spideygays are so pussy whip. The books are irredeemable garbage yet they still eat this shit up. It's even funnier since they're the biggest complainers of the state of the books.
I always get confused. Is Donna the wife, or is Roberta the wife?
Marvel should bring Gwen back for real and make *everyone* unhappy.
>"The Day Gwen Stacy Lived"
>Gwen comes back from the dead, 100% for real this time
>doesn't really matter how it happens
>(off the top of my head, maybe it's because her gobblin up Norman's radioactive Super Sperm meant some of his resurrective abilities passed onto her like a reverse Reign, which also recanonises Sins Past; or alternatively, she's been in suspended animation in a cocoon at the bottom of the Hudson this whole time)
>Peter is absolutely shaken by the shocking reveal (despite the fact that he has seen Gwen about half a dozen times after her death in various forms)
>takes him several issues to get used to the fact Gwen is actually back
>he tries to confide in MJ about how he feels, but she can't do much to help him emotionally as she's still shacked up with Paul
>goes to the X-Men (shameless From the Ashes plug) to see if they can help him deal with a resurrection like this, they tell him to frick off because he didn't help with Krakoa
>eventually Miles gives Peter much-needed sage advice he takes to heart
>meanwhile, as Peter's been struggling to cope, Gwen has been busy enjoying her new lease on life
>she confronts Norman
>tells him she forgives him despite everything he did
>Norman breaks down in tears after she leaves, stunned by her bravery
>she signs up to the police force outta respect for her fawtha, wanting to make her second chance count
>met Miles, gets on with him just as well as she did Peter back before she died
>shit happens
>Spider-Man and GG have a big fight
>both fuelled by their confused emotions over Gwen's return, what it means if such a monumental event can be overturned like nothing
>luckily, before they can think about it any further, Gwen arrives
>she tells them to stop fighting, that she's her own woman now and will be making her own way in NYC without them
>tearful goodbye
>arc ends with Peter reluctantly accepting Gwen's wishes
>leads into Gwen's brand new police ongoing (cancelled after 6 issues)
HIRE ME MARVEL
What about that time they tried to retcon Aunt May as Peter's biological mother?
Maybe we could write an "American Pie" parody about bad creative decisions in comics. "The day the comics died..."
Why not just let different incarnations of characters be different?
Not a bad idea but I would like to something to it. The story picks up after Gwen joins the police force in new police ongoing. At the end of the series we learn who brought Gwen back it turns out to be Thanos,as you can imagine he did not do out it of the kindness of his heart. Oh no he did it for a very specific reason.
Anyway story cuts back to Gwen who is now living her own life at first everything seems to be going fine and she even begins dating other people not men however but rather women. But then peculiar things start to happen the women who she dates simply die, members of her police force fall ill and also die. At this point Gwen starts to think something is not right with her since people all around her die.
Right thanos then shows up and revels to her that when her brought he back he also gave her the ability of death. That means whoever comes in contact with Gwen is doomed to die after a while thus she has become Death incarnate.
Thanos motive for doing such a crude thing is quite simple you see fans have complained many times saying "Gwen Stacy was a nobody character who never amounted to anything". And this why Thanos has made Gwen the instrument of death, by doing so in a sense he has made her matter, if only in terms of being death incarnate.
>Marvel should bring Gwen back for real and make *everyone* unhappy.
Unironically I would be happy if they did bring her back. Lots of people say she is better off dead but given all of spider-man history and the mess things are I just don't know anymore. Maybe given all the shit which has occured her staying dead no longer really matters and pehaps that's why she should brought back. After so many years I doubt anybody would really mind if they were to do it.
I don't give a frick about Gwen and I wonder why would anyone else specially when May Parker is dead, kidnapped or stuck in an alternate reality. May being dead or alive changes nothing of Peter story, he did failt to help innocents before and after her including her father.
Bring uncle ben too while you are at it
Ultimate made it work, but only because they also killed off Aunt May.
uh I guess you missed the preview from Spectacular Spider-men 3 anon. she seems to be back and married to peter here,
https://www.looper.com/1583637/exclu...es-gwen-stacy/
Somehow I doubt she a clone
That's not Gwen, that's a simulation.
There is no evidence to that being the case
It clearly is. Gwen's dead, she got chucked off a bridge by her baby daddy Norman Osborn.
She looks pretty damn alive there to me.
That Gwen isn't real, though. She's clearly a computer simulation.
I truly doubt that is the case here is some food for though anon arcade does not know Peter is Spider-Man. Since we know this to be the case here it would make no sense for arcade to make a computer simulation of Gwen.
Yeah, but The Jackal knows that Peter is Spider-Man so...he probably just told Arcade outright.
Why would the Jackal share his knowledge of peter being really spider-man to arcade? don't you think think it would more sense for the jackal to keep that info to himself so he could have a advantage over peter.
Who knows? But what I do know is that that Gwen Stacy isn't real. The cover of the next issue proves it, Peter and Miles will wake up from the simulations and get revenge.
The cover only hints arcade is in the book nothing more. For all we know his scheme is directed at miles not peter. At any rate it would make zero sense for the Jackal to share his knowledge of spider-man secret identity to arcade.
To be fair, Peter canonically died around a dozen times
I'd only be bothered because they'd figure a way to do her dirtier than Bucky. Maybe even than Punisher's wife.
Peter's never been all that righteous. I remember Back in Black.
If OMD was so bad why'd they copy it in the movies? Nobody wants to accept Quesada did the right thing and the world moved on.
he didn't do the right thing it was a bad idea in the the movies as well especially if he does end up back with MJ
There was no devil in the movie
Movie copied one moment in time.
the only similarity the mcu version has is having a magic spell retcon every other detail is different
Movie: Peter's loved ones are being punished for associating with him after he's framed for murder and terrorism, he wants the world to forget he's Spider-Man for their sake, it goes wrong and he has to sacrifice his romance with MJ to save the multiverse, and he ends up completely alone.
Comic: An assassin inadvertently shoots Aunt May when Peter dodges the shot, Peter agrees to sell his marriage (and apparently his future daughter) to bootleg Satan so that she can live because no super scientists or sorcerers can save her, and it ends with him surrounded by friends (one of which had been dead for over a decade), and meeting his next girlfriend, as Quesada pats himself on the back with one hand and jerks himself off with the other while moaning "I saved you, Spidey" over and over again.
and to make things worse they made TOAA himself get into the story just to tell Peter that was a terrible idea and would have very serious consequences.
So Peter knew very well something very VERY BAD was going to happen, which makes him responsible if his daughter soul was in hell for all those years rather than an accident.
MJ and Peter will be back together in the next movie. They aren’t wasting Zendaya, who is a legit movie star now, and her real life romance with Holland just to please a handful of whiny fanboys who cry about Peter being always miserable
No one wants Michelle Jones and her ugleh mutty face.
Disney doesn’t care about the incel market. Sorry.
Funny, this is why they are bleeding money fast and the park is going into disrepair as their shitty cartoon, tv and movie productions going thru the same.
Disney is on track for $8 billion in free cash flow generated in FY 2024.(that’s cash after cap expenditures). I can only hope to be so unsuccessful. But hey, whatever lie you need to cry yourself to sleep alone every night.
Sure paid intern who comes here to shill your shitty company off a paid marketing agency.
Sorry to disappoint, I’m just able to use Google while also correctly able parse reality.
Now I see why they call you schitzo.
WB tried to hype 6 billion free cash flow as well, it didn't work.
$6B, not $8B.
They also have a massively different debt load.
But agree Wall Street is not giving them enough credit for their free cash flow, probbaly because of the debt.
Ins't that because studios are seen as a dogshit investment nowadays while Disney is 50% theme parks, meanwhile WB is like 90% movies and 10% video games or something
I was hoping they’d at least give it a movie of pete being disconnected before bringing her back. This is the perfect time to introduce black cat but Michelle would just get in the way of that story
She's just zoomer boy kryptonite, bring her back immeditately!
Not married, no kid, no geriatric aunt, no devil, not dealing with your shit today shill.
The conclusion to the nonsensical Gwen/Norman plot
What you didn't like Hell Robots?
one more day would be a good story if it ended with Peter telling Mephisto to go frick himself
>Name a bigger frick up by the big 2
Here you go anon they made MJ a cheater. Sins Past was pretty bad also but thanks to spencer it is thankfully no longer canon.
they need to kill that homosexual paul off
You know that wouldn't be so bad if Paul actually looked like a literal Gigachad meme all the time, I mean it would still be bad but it would be the classic nerd lose to chad rather than MC lose to self insert.
>My waifu isn't with the guy I don't like
Apart from the silly complaints, am I the only one who thinks that these characters shouldn't be important? I can't think of a good storyline with them
Considering you're making shit up, yes, you are the only one.
Paul isn't canon but Sins Past is.
>Paul isn't canon but Sins Past is.
No no more sins past is canon. Good old loveable Harry.
Sins Past is always canon. Paul isn't though, he's from a parallel universe which means he isn't canon.
>Sins Past is always canon.
It was never canon to begin with the thing to to bear in mind that spider-man blue came before it so alas.
It was always canon. You have to accept it.
No it was never canon.
It's canon.
Parallel universes are canon
No, they aren't. That is why they are called Parallel Universes.
But he was in a sexual relationship with 616 MJ
Paul can't have sex, he doesn't have a dick.
>Paul can't have sex,
I am sure he can.
Sorry Gwenschizo, but even X-Men editor Tom Brevoort says that if it doesn't happen on page, it doesn't happen at all.
You're an out and proud X-gay, aren't you? Then I'm afraid you've got to trust and respect him at his word. Repeat after me, and Tom.
>If it doesn't happen on the page, then it hasn't happened at all!
The frick are you talking about moron there no mention of paul in that article.
If any characters don't frick on page, then they haven't fricked at all!
Brevoort's words, not mine! Paul fricking MJ is no longer canon!
>Paul fricking MJ is no longer canon!
Kindly do not spam the thread with stupidity
>implying it was ever canon in the first place
It's still funny to me that Tom Brevoort of all people put the final nail in this coffin.
They had sex end of story.
Hey man, this is X-Men editor Tom Brevoort weighing in on this. You shut your mouth, and you show him some fricking respect.
You are not Tom Brevoort
A DURR yes obviously but
A DURR these are still obviously Brevoort's own feelings on comics in general
If it doesn't happen "on screen" then it hasn't happened, period. And Paul and MJ haven't even kissed on screen, hahaha.
>If it doesn't happen "on screen" then it hasn't happened, period. And Paul and MJ haven't even kissed on screen, hahaha.
Just because readers didn't see it happen quite literally "on screen" does not mean it never happened anon I say it DID happen end of story.
Not according to X-Men Editor Tom Brevoort! And I think what HE says matters quite a bit more than what YOU say.
Stop with the fakeout Tom Brevoort is in charge of X-Men he has nothing do with this.
He is a SENIOR EDITOR at Marvel Comics, and furthermore, he is the one who is ushering X-Men into a new and successful post-Krakoa era with Rise from the Ashes.
Questioning Tom means you're questioning the X-Men. Questioning Tom means you're questioning Marvel itself. Do you think he's wrong about this, or that he's some kind of an idiot or something?
I hate to think about what might happen to X-Men if he's actually dumb...
Tom Brevoor hass nothing to do with paul thiis a fake-out frick off.
Tom says that if a thing in a comic doesn't happen on screen, then it hasn't happened, period! It doesn't matter if it's Paul and MJ, it doesn't matter if it's Logan and Jean Grey!
TOM BREVOORT HAS DECREED THIS AND YOU *WILL* RESPECT IT IF YOU TRULY ARE AN X-MEN FAN.
Get the frick out here Tom Brevoor has nothing to do with this.
Tom Brevoort has decreed his opinions on all Marvel comics, in general. He's a highly respected industry figure, and has been an influential chief editor for years and one of the biggest supporters of One More Day.
Sorry man, what he says matters. Unless you think he's just... some kind of dumbass... who's know in charge of the X-Men...???
If Brevoort wants to undo all the damage, the first thing he has to do once the Crash happens next year into 26.
is buyout marvel off disney and have it independent by licensing and copy what Jump did to save their asses from bankrupcy years ago.
>Unless you think he's just... some kind of dumbass... who's know in charge of the X-Men...???
Well, that IS accurate.
>the schizo is now torn between shilling for Paul and shilling for Editorial
He's being eaten alive.
Hi Slott. Got tired of using CBR to carry on your pointless, childish fights?
>Gwenschizo is now accusing other people of being Slott instead of engaging with the argument.
Hey man, I'm just the one pointing out that even Tom Brevoort doesn't think Paul is fricking MJ.
Tom Brevoort doesn’t know what fricking is, because it’s on the page in X-Force
Even better.
>Logan fricked Jean
>But Paul never fricked MJ
Brevoort's own words, people. Pack it in.
>Paul never fricked MJ
like hell he didn't that last panel stongly implies he did.
If it didn't happen on the page, then it didn't happen. Also, Paul can't have sex. He doesn't have a dick. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
He fricked her anon pure and simple.
He didn't nor is he capable of doing so. Pure and simple.
They fricked.
Sorry anon, Tom Brevoort was very clear. If it's not on the page, it's not happening.
You know, there IS a couple that DID frick on page, though...
TOM BREVOORT HAS CONFIRMED
PAUL AND MJ IS NOT CANON
GWEN AND NORMAN OSBORN IS CANON
RULES ARE RULES, THEY FRICKED ON PAGE AND THEREFORE IT HAPPENED.
I can't believe Brevoort casually made Sins Past canon again. Truly /ourguy/
THAT IS A THING THAT IS ON THE PAGE!
IT IS A THING THAT IS HAPPENING! SINS PAST IS BACK, BABY!
No it is not and never will be back.
sorry, schizo-kun, Brevoort's word>"Spencer's" fanfic. Simple as, nothing complicated about it.
Maybe you should write a letter to Brevoort then.
I will do something better I will ask him to do a youtube video confirming he has nothing do with paul or spider-man
You do that, little buddy.
But he isn't talking about just the X-Men. These are Brevoort's rules.
If it doesn't happen on page, it hasn't happened at all. It's just basic storytelling, from one of Marvel's greatest and most beloved veterans.
>You know, there IS a couple that DID frick on page, though...
Anon it's over spencer made thos non-canon.
Tom Brevoort begs to differ.
Spencer is a mere writer, for Spider-Man of all things. Brevoort is a Chief Editor, and helming the X-Men, one of the most important franchises of all things.
Brevoort >>> Spencer, simple as.
>Tom Brevoort begs to differ.
Tom Brevoort is in charge of X-Men not spider-man thus he has nothing to do with this now get lost.
You do know he's an Editor with massive pull and influence in the company, right?
He's in charge of a hell of a lot more than just the X-Men...
Oh do be serious Dan Buckley is the one who gets to call the shots and if you don't shut up then I may just give him a ring asking him to a youtube video/it just so happens I do know his number don't know about you though however I strongly doubt it.
Dan Buckley hasn't said anything about this. Tom Brevoort has, and it's like Tom Brevoort always says:
If it's not on the page, then it's not happening!
>Tom Brevoort decanonized MJ/Paul even before Zeb’s run finished
Holy shit that’s based.
Then I am sure you won't mind me giving him a call confirming that to be the case. if turns out fake however then Brevoort will no doubt plaster you all over internet. I hope you have major medical anon.
You have no more arguments other than “nuh uh” anymore. It’s settled.
I think I need to make a phone call now anon. Make sure you have that medical ready.
You don't have his phone number. Quit lying, you dumb little cuck.
Oh are you sure about that. Bad news for if you turn out to be wrong.
I'm not. You are just a moron.
You got that backwards dude.
Hey while you were talking, I gave Dan Buckley a call of my own. He said you’re full of shit.
Thanks anon, glad we could finally clear that up. It’s always good to hear back from Dan Buckley in these threads too.
I just talked with Buckley he says you are full of shit.
Can YOU provide a call transcript? I thought not.
>Can YOU provide a call transcript? I thought not.
Can you provide a picture of you butt? I thought not dumbass.
>no call transcript
Yup, I think you're exposed now, Gwenschizo. You were nothing but a goddamn phony. A pitiful little liar. You never knew anything about anyone.
Shameful. Pathetic. Better watch out, Dan Buckley is getting the FBI involved in this because of your antics.
lol I know more then you think I do bu unlike you I am not dumb enough to post such info in public such as sites like this.
You know nothing. You're a delusional schizophrenic who hallucinates entire conversations with Dan Buckley, and you're going to be sent to pound-me-in-the-ass Federal Prison now that the FBI have gotten involved. Sorry anon.
That's funny he said the same about you.
No, it’s true. I’ve got the audio logs and everything.
>Hey, Dan… buddy, Daniel, did you get any calls from a Polish guy obsessed with Gwen Stacy about Tom Brevoort?
>Uhm… lemme check… no, no calls about Tom from any Polish guys. You said he was obsessed with uh, with uh Gwen Stacy? The only guy I know like that is Cebulski, a-and he hasn’t called me today at least.
>Whoah. Damn. All right, thanks for clearing that up, Dan. Yeah, he was saying stuff like how Tom Brevoort isn’t allowed to say his opinions on storytelling in general because he’s an X-Men guy, and you supported him on it?
>Why, that’s… that’s pretty outrageous. Uh, well, I stand behind Tom and Tom’s abilities as a storyteller. I don’t know who that guy is, but I’d always stand behind my editors. Rest assured, I’ll be reporting what this guy’s been doing to the FBI. Fraud’s a big deal.
>Thanks Dan
>Anytime.
>The only guy I know like that is Cebulski
I chuckled.
Man, that’s a relief. I guess Gwenschizo was a phony after all.
Always was.
What is blud waffling on about???
Is that Tommy Lee Jones?
>He fricked her anon pure and simple.
With what? We've already established he's dickless.
He has a dick you dumbass.
No he doesn't, and nor do you.
Anon you are a idiot and take my word for if we meet in real life then I will show my dick to you personally.
If I find you, I will rape you.
Also Paul's dick isn't canon per Tom Brevoort.
>Strongly implies
That's not good enough for *the* Tom Brevoort, and therefore, it's not good enough for me!
>it's not good enough for me!
It is for me however and many others.
And none of them are Tom Brevoort.
Sorry man, I think the word of a leading industry figure, and newly anointed Supreme Ruler of all things X-Men, knows a bit more than you and your cute little friends on the internet.
>Posting the same image twice now.
Well, looks like that’s spam. Reporting.
Nope. Brevoort said if it doesn't happen on the page, it doesn't happen. Your headcanon does not apply here, cuckboy.
nah they didn't because paul is a homosexual without any balls
>Nick Spencer retconning Sins Past
>Tom Brevoort retconning Paul and MJ even while it's ongoing.
>Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man at the top of the charts for each and every month
Truly these are now blessed times for Spider-Man fans.
>>Nick Spencer retconning Sins Past
Yes I agree him making Sins Past non-canon was a blessing.
Yes, and you also agree with the other two things!
MJ can stay with paul for good for all I care.
>Even one of the Godfathers of Gwenschizo's beloved OMD says that if they don't draw pictures of Paul having sex with MJ, then Paul hasn't had sex with MJ.
Oh man, schizo's really going to self harm over this...
Nice try dumbass
Brevoort is... based?
I hope he One More Day's all over the X-Men, it'd be hilarious.
>I hope he One More Day's all over the X-Men, it'd be hilarious.
>"ugh, frick, I'm gonna... I'm BREVOOOOOORTING"
Fishbowl x Goblin will always be the canon explanation behind that story.
The only screw up worse than OMD is the first time someone changed a Marvel Comic character to try to match up to a movie instead of doing the opposite.
Like when they gave Peter organic webs for a bit
Shuri used to be one of my favorite Marvel characters, they turned her into completely different person out of nowhere to fit the MCU, it's insane. I can't believe I used to wish they replaced her brother for her as the main Black Panther.
With great responsibility come deals with the devil.
the constant mindfrick until peter realizes he is meeting alternate versions of himself on the way to mephisto was great
if the status quo was not permanently changed and it went back i would think that this was actually a good arc
>Marvel kills trust in themselves and tanks readership to end Peter and MJ's relationship
>The general public still thinks they're married
Honestly, hiring Zeb Wells and Nick Lowe as the main writer for ASM as the Wells run is extremely shit and comes pretty close it terms of sheer damage to the characters.
*main writer and the executive editor
Zeb Wells should be blacklisted from the industry
Why do people keep engaging with the shitposter?
How did this thread turn into an argument about Gwen?
People in this thread either don't know about the dipshit who's devoted the last two or three years of his life to derailing every Spider-Man thread he sees, or can't resist indulging him.
Because this is the sort of thing that happens when a resident shitposter is allowed to roam free without ever getting banned. He'll derails every thread he targets into either a discussion about his pet topic or a discussion about himself.
When they brought Jean back
Once they did that they made death meaningless in comics
This wasn't even close to the first death and return of a superhero in comics. The death of Phoenix blowing up into this huge thing that people hyped as "Marvel's best story" for so long and teaching the industry that superhero deaths are events that bring attention and sales to a book has been a cancer on the industry, but fans don't want to have that conversation, they WANT the deaths without the returns. Look at how many of the Marvel stories celebrated as the all time classics are basically just SOMEONE DIES. There's a sickness in the soul of this fandom, a sickness fed by blood.
DC Fricked up with Wally West so hard over a decade and even more once he returned thanks to Tom King and Diane Nelson, that Johns last Act of Service alongside Scott Snyder and Williamson was fix Wally and Send a huge Frick You at the OMD Editorial at Marvel and DC with the entire Dark Crisis Shitshow that restored him and made him more OP.
Now Wally is literally the Shonen Hero of Western Comics, While Barry is now treated like trash thanks to the movie and he in comics behaving like ass and getting beaten by Edward Nygma.
>Name a bigger frick up by the big 2
How is Civil War 2 not worse in every single possible way except impact?
Cause the ramifications of OMD are still felt today. Marvel claimed OMD was necessary because they needed Spider-Man young and relatable, they needed to get him back to basics, etc etc
The reality is:
>If Aunt May is in peril, it will remind the reader of OMD
>The setup using Mephisto requires the resolution to be Peter and Mary Jane married again, regardless of what Marvel thinks. If it were Loki doing the deal, I think most people could've moved on.
>Despite wanting Spider-Man to be young, they bring in Miles Morales who will draw more attention to Peter being older. Ditto Spider-Boy.
>Despite wanting Spider-Man to be relatable they allowed Slott to do his Parker Industries storyline, where Doc Ock under control of Peter's body made Parker Industries and Peter just basically fell into taking it over and running it.
>Every attempted relationship goes nowhere because either the reader knows it will go nowhere because Marvel could do another OMD to reset, or the relationships are written unconvincingly (ie new characters like Carlie or Michelle Gonzales or established characters like Black Cat and Mockingbird in BND/Slott/Wells eras)
>Marvel claimed OMD was necessary because they needed Spider-Man young and relatable
Pretty sure they wanted him just to be single because it seems like Marvel characters are aging faster in the last two decades or so, everybody who was 20 or 30 now looks 40 and the kids are all young adults
wanting Spider-Man to be young, they bring in Miles Morales who will draw more attention to Peter being older
Just makes no sense.
Hey Peter you're looking too old this marriage thing is over. By the way Peter here's your black spider son.
All this shit is making me grateful for Ultimate. Hickman is proving that it’s really easy to write a simple and straightforward Spider-Man story that isn’t marred by sheer moronation.
The most infuriating part of it is that despite wanting a young and relatable Peter from "the good old days" nothing about the comics since OMD has ever even resembled it
>He's not even at ESU anymore, he only ever went back during Spencer's run and it was a footnote (superiorshit doesn't count)
>He doesn't interact with the Bugle cast at all, meaning 80% of his supporting cast goes unused
>They went so far as to blacklist Peter from photography so he'd never be able to do that job again
>The other 20% of his supporting cast are also unused or made into symbiote users for whatever fricking reason. Characters only get used if they are directly related to the Spider-Man plot going on right now (like Randy or Betty), B-Plots and Peter Parker plots are all gone
>The current comics don't resemble the good old days at all. Instead of Peter being a down on his luck guy trying to do well by himself, his family, and his city (as Spider-Man), he's a loser with an unstable career, almost no friends (the ones he does have are all in stable relationships and have kids) and no girlfriend
they never wanted classic spider-man, they wanted a Sienfeld rip off
Civil War 2 was ultimately a waste of time that was quickly forgotten. It was bad but it only ruined itself. Comics that ruin other comics for years rank higher. So something like Ultimatum is infinitely worse than Civil War 2.
I'm just amazed they've never done anything like What If Peter and Mary Jane didn't go through with Mephisto's deal yet? It seems like somethin they would've done years ago.
They've done it multiple times, get pissed off at how popular it ends up being, and then kill it without explanation.
Because then they would have to admit that Mary Jane was pregnant at the time and that the story is the two of them selling their unborn child’s soul to the devil
>We really have a marketing shill defending Disney in this thread.
>The righteous guy made a pact with the devil
This is why this storyline is fundamentally flawed and ridculous. It relies on Spiderman acting out of character to an insane degree.
I wanna half-ass contribute with a bullet dodged, except less “bullet dodged” and more “WW3 avoided at the zero hour”, where rumor holds they wanted to give Wonder Woman her own tragic event, like ‘The Death of Superman’ and when Robin got crowbar’d by having “The Rape of Wonder Woman”.
I cannot fricking fathom the shitshow and ramifications that would’ve had to this day.
>a 22-page rape scene with the first page having already been rendered
I can’t fathom. It boggles the mind. It would’ve been an absolute game changer, guaranteed, in the worst fricking way. Imagine the culture wars hitting comics a whole fricking decade earlier, maybe 15 years earlier.
>rumor holds
It was literally just Mark Millar trolling and people took him seriously. He was a Literally Who? in the industry back then, and would have had zero pull to pitch a story like that.
He was joking, anon. People took him seriously for some reason, and worse there are people who want it to be true.
That's the scary part, the company is so insane they think that is a good idea and the only reason they didn't do it is because no writer at the time was insane enough to put their name on it.
Anon, no. The entire story is untrue. Mark Millar was working on Sonic the Hedgehog comics in the UK back then, not for DC. He never pitched this in 1993, DC were never considering this, and nothing was drawn. He was trolling and people believed him because they want it to be true, either because they have that low an opinion of DC, or because they want to read a comic like that.
The biggest fricking mistake was doing away with self contained titles and making everything connected. Constant crossovers and events are what has been killing capeshit.
"These characters exist in the same world, sometimes they meet, sometimes they team up" wasn't a problem. Even "sometimes there are event stories where all the heroes come together" isn't that much of a problem until it's happening several times a year.
The big problem was turbo autist nerds who just want to connect everything that originally was self-contained, making characters from different books suddenly related to each other, or insisting characters in one book had to react or deal with things going on in another title. By the time we get the X-Men yelling at the Avengers for not being there to solve all their problems, something had gone badly wrong.
Avengers #200 was irrelevant and largely forgotten by the type Marvel started pushing Carol, the problem was more taking a character who'd been a cheesecake swimsuit bimbo aimed at male readers for decades and trying to turn her into "Marvel's Wonder Woman" and their idea of a strong female A-lister.
>By the time we get the X-Men yelling at the Avengers for not being there to solve all their problems, something had gone badly wrong.
Here's a question I've never really seen answered: When did that start? Pre-Quesada, or Post-Quesada?
Or during Quesada, for that matter?
Depends. Was AvX after Original Sin or before it?
Before by 2 years
Before, but AvX and Original Sin are post-Quesada, because it came out in 2012 but Quesada already stepped away from EIC in 2011
My theory is that this "X-Men hates Avengers for not being there" thing is primarily coming from either Quesada era or post-Quesada Marvel and would be perpetuated by shills defending Marvel's bad decisions
I think it might have been post-Quesada. I don't have any strong memories of people claiming that the X-Men hated the Avengers because they weren't there until after AvX happened.
Quesada also hated the JLA avengers crossover and moved mountains to sabotage any next crossover with DC in the 2000's
He was right to do that
have a nice day Slobb
Double trips of truth, fact is, he hated George Perez Cover being the only one standing when all was lost.
And possibly the only comic book cover that was never beaten til this day, surpassing even Death of Superman and macfarlane's shit.
What a ridiculous image. Superman could crush those things in his hands just like I crushed your momma's pussy
What a hack. JLA/Avengers was awesome.
Trips of truth
I consider it the official ending for both Marvel and DC. Nothing else happens after that.
It does feel like a grand goodbye to the Marvel and DC of yesterday. I think it was also the last book that George Perez ever worked on.
No he did work on a few things after that, like Legion of 3 Worlds
It was kind of a last hurrah before Identity Crisis and Disassembled ushered in the age of crap we've had since.
There's that bit in Civil War where Stark goes to meet Emma Frost and she gives him a bunch of shit about WHERE WERE YOU AT GENOSHA
So it's been a thing for long than that
Genosha issue came from Morrison New X-Men which was Quesada-era
Civil War was also Quesada-era
If anything it's still convincing me that this is primarily a Quesada-era/Post-Quesada-era thing
Yes, this was where it started, it happened twice around the time of Civil War, once in the main event book, and again in the Kyle/Yost New X-Men, and snowballed from there.
>Quesada also hated the JLA avengers crossover and moved mountains to sabotage any next crossover with DC in the 2000's
As bad as his time as EiC was for Marvel, in fairness to him, the bad blood with DC came from him making jokes during an interview (not even "comics journalism", but mainstream media) that he'd asked be kept off the record but the interviewer printed them anyway. Blame the absolute state of journalism.
I would say that's primarily a modern X-Men pity party issue though.
The unwritten rule in all shared universes is that you don't expect other characters to always show up in every other book. They can't have the Avengers show up and deal with everything because then they'd take over the book and no one would be happy. Instead, the writer is supposed to justify why others don't show up (a simple "they're busy" is really all you need) or you don't raise the question at all (unless it's in obvious jest like pic related). But the X-Men need their victim complex so you always get Emma Frost whining about Genosha as if the Avengers ignored their pleas for help when in reality the sentinels came and went far too quickly for the to reasonably respond, even if they weren't busy fighting Kang
This with a mix of getting rid of anthologies.
There's a parallel timeline where the likes of Sensation Comics, Action Comics, & Detective Comics remained anthologies and got thicker, letting new characters ride on the coattails of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman (who kept appearing in those books in their own stuff). That timeline is better and has more diversity in the books.
Trying to make Carol the female face of Marvel after the fricking mess that was Avengers 200
Tower of Babel and/or The Dark Knight for creating Batwank
When did Spider-wank started? Who started the trend of bullshit like Peter being on the same level as Stark and Pym and having him saving the multiverse?
I'm sorry, I don't see 'Spider-Man can beat Goku with prep time' all over the internet so I didn't even know Spider-Wank was a thing.
Dan Slott
Why do people bother to read comics anymore anyway? There's retcons, asspulls, character assassinations, and universe resets every few years.
I wanna see you get over 40 years of sunk cost fallacy without happy pills
As bad as it is that Peter and MJ broke up in the first place, it's not like Peter wasn't getting any while MJ was with Paul. He at least got to bang Felicia a bit before the usual breakup between them.
Also, he actually did make out with her. It happened on page. Peter was definitely more intimate with Felicia than MJ ever was with Paul.
Peter definitely fricked Felicia.
>To this day there are people who think Mark Millar's "yeah, they were interested in 22 pages of Wonder Woman getting raped, sorta like how Superman died!" story seriously
You're the people who would have thought Jonathan Swift literally wanted to eat babies when he wrote A Modest Proposal.
She's already happy, so you should be happy for her and move on.
That isn't love, that's Stockholm Syndrome, you creepy moron.
Based. He's called "big dick" Paul for a reason.
Paul is a eunich. His dad gave it to Wayep.
>He's called "big dick" Paul for a reason.
Because he IS a big dick, not because he has one.
Keep fricking paul posting Dan. It won't bring gwen back from the dead or make Heather interested in you. Get back to jerking off to your imaginary blacked troony girlfriend while ultimate flies off of the shelves you insufferable fat frick.
Damn, that's some "rent free" level-projection.
9/11 was the 9/11 of Marvel.
Yea Im projecting because im the one obsessed with gwen stacy because I think it's the best way to get a roastie editor (Heather antos) to touch my dick.
>9/11 was the 9/11 of Marvel.
Good one, ya really showed me tubby. Is that the same razor sharp wit that makes your comics sell like glass enemas?
Lol, alot of the time I was posting at work. You would put off work so you could post. Who's projecting now, fatass?
This post was definitely Slott, wasn't it:
Yea its me, I took the time to stop pounding off to my commissions of peter fricking gwen on mj's grave to be here so this better be good.
Sorry, I misunderstood your post but yea your right it's slott. 90% of the time if someone is defending Dan it's usually just Dan, nobody likes him enough to fught for him, especially as autisticically often as he does
>this thread
seriously this thread
zero hour
secret empire
image united
that idw crossover
that dark horse crossover
that vampirella crossover
the plutonian
irredemeeble
Chip Zdarsky's Daredevil. People just don't care because it's Daredevil.
Confession: I used to genuinely ship Norman/Gwen. I like Erik/Christine from Phantom of the Opera. I've liked Lucius Malfoy/Hermione Granger from HP since I was 12. It's my 'type' of ship trope. Then I experienced Cinemaphile troll shippers. Can't do it anymore. They've somehow taken the fun out of it.
Congrats anon you’ve hit the final point of being a comic book fan, realizing that there is no positive part of being a comic book fan. The books suck the writers suck the art sucks the parent companies suck the shops suck and the fans suck, see you in the story times on Wednesday
Excuse you. I am capable of controlling myself. I assure you, neither hide nor hair will be seen of me on Wednesday.
A co-worker wanted to call out and was willing to bribe me for cookies. I'll be working all day. You'll see me around midnight on Thursday for my "lunch" break.
I started out trolling, ended up shipping them for real. How can we get you back on the team, anon? We need everyone we can get.
Here's my nomination:
Everything Batgirl/Birds of Prey.
See, with Spider-Man, there's an understandable desire to set back the clock. He's Marvel's biggest character, they're going to want to find ways to turn him into whatever version of the character they think will sell best.
But in terms of unforced error, just look at the mess that the Batgirl/BoP corner of the DCU ended up. First they fricked up Cassandra Cain, just an absolute tried-to-frick-my-wife-somehow-fricked-the-dog-instead "it shouldn't be possible to screw up that badly" screwup. They made Steph Batgirl and quickly ditched the whole likable angle that she lacked the skills and training of the Batfamily but tried really hard. So now she's just another hypercapable Batperson. They cured Oracle, completely undercutting their own claims at "diversity and inclusion" in order to have a new Batgirl book that wasn't popular enough to match the BoP/Batgirl sales from back before the meddling started. So now we've got a "Batgirls" book, but the characters have all been mismanaged so badly there's only a fraction of the interest they could've had if they'd used the same cast back in 2006, before all the idiocy. And they've gradually mismatched the BoP name so badly it basically just means "team of random girls," with a movie adaptation that's a serious contender for worst comicbook adaptation of all time.
I hate OMD but I kinda get it, same with various reboot frickups. With this... it was just headless chickens tripping over one another.
what happened to the baby
One more day was pretty much the 9/11 of marvel.
Weird how no one brings up that this was rooted in another colossal frick-up: Spider-Man just revealing his identity in Civil War, to begin with.
And to another degree, Marvel revealing a bunch of secret identities a few years earlier. That was one moronic idea that to this day is reflected in the MCU.
Spider-Man revealing his identity was probably only allowed to happen because they were setting up OMD
To me It always felt like they chickened out at the last second. Like, they were to afraid to stray from spider-man's original formula.
>Like, they were to afraid to stray from spider-man's original formula.
That's generally what happened with BND, they wanted to do what they thought was Spider-Man's original formula, but it came off looking bad
It hadn't been his formula since the death of Gwen Stacy.
Possibly, which would make it part of OMD.
How to fix one more day:
>Mary Jane remembers the marriage when Aunt May suddenly collapses
>She dumps Paul immediately, goes to Peter, Paul gets jealous, almost evil
>Mary Jane finds Peter, but Peter doesn't remember, they go to Aunt May
>May tells Peter she's so proud of him, and to take care of his wife.
>Mephisto arrives to Paul, tell him for his soul, he'll give him the power to kill Spider-Man. Paul agrees.
>Paul teleports to where Peter is, they fight and Paul nearly kills Peter.
>Its not until May dies that Peter finally remembers his marriage to MJ. May dies post fight.
>Peter recovers, vows to find Paul and talk things out. Finds Paul is a demon.
>Peter tries fighting him, but gets his ass kicked. MJ as Jackpot then appears, and Paul vows to kill her.
>Peter recovers and fights Paul with MJ. Uatu then lets everyone see what is going on, with Peter and MJ getting the upper hand.
>Suddenly Mephisto appears, and injures MJ and kills Paul with one attack.
>Peter charges Mephisto in a fury not seen since Kingpin and blasts Mephisto, hurting him.
>Mephisto retreats from Peter's attack, calling him a "fool", and saying "You got it back, but there is always a price.."
>MJ dies in Peter's arms from her injuries, Marvel Universe grieves.
>One Above All appears at MJ's funeral, and tells Peter he deserves a happy life. Suddenly, Gwen Stacy, not a clone, not an alt version, appears.
>Gwen tells Peter she doesn't blame him for her dying and hugs him. Peter hugs her back, and that's where it ends.
Let's see:
>Sanctuary being a thing. A place where heroes supposedly go for therapy treatment yet there's no qualified therapists at all, nor security. What it does have are rooms which shows the heroes their most traumatising or emotional memories over and over again, which I'm no therapist myself but I'm pretty sure that does the opposite of help
>Another event to kill off characters for no other reason than shock value
>They mentioned they wanted to emulate the horror of a school or mall shooting....except the culprit here was Flash, and the trigger that killed the people was an accident, mass shooters don't accidently kill people.
>The trinity not only pretty much do jack shit throughout the event, despite them being so prominent in the covers and the summaries say they do stuff, they also at one point went 3 on 1 to take Harley in....and she gave them a hard time by herself.
>No blame was placed on the Sactuary itself, despite the comics clearly showing the flaws it had and it continued to be in operation at the end.
I don't know if subsequent comics later rectified the shit listed here but the event itself was easily the worst "Crisis" event DC had put out.
>she gave them a hard time by herself.
That's putting it mildly.
this killed rebirth momentum
I would argue it's a combination of the two:
Just one or the other could've knocked DC off their game but could've been recoverable
Doing both killed a LOT of goodwill and it showed
For all the shit miles gets as a characater, at elast he has never made a deal with the devil. That puts him above peter.
homie he made a deal with the devil to save Kamala’s life at the cost of a strangers life
You really haven't read anything since the 2016, huh
Alex betraying the team for his father he hated was pretty moronic. Ruined one of the good books left at the time.
so the whogays are destined to stay this pathetic and unable to move on, uh?
What is this buttholes fascination with Spider-Man?, dude has battles with Galactus and Silver Surfer and maybe Dr. Strange but for some reason wanted a mans marriage
Pete's daughter was prophesied to be the one to kill Mephisto.
>What is this buttholes fascination with Spider-Man?
You didn't read OMD did you?