Maybe, maybe not. But a normal bad Gundam is bad in a way that just feels really dumb. This was bad in a way that was constantly kind of frustrating and annoying.
Some of it is because the show is just genuinely not very good. A lot of it is that /m/ as a whole has the biggest hateboner for Kira and Lacus that they have for anything. It was one of the first Gundam shows that we were all watching live and talking about it on the internet as it aired, and people got really emotionally invested in Shinn and Durandal being right and Kira and Lacus being wrong. When it turned out that Kira and Lacus were right, it broke those people, and their existing dislike of those characters escalated into a frothing hatred that's lasted nearly twenty years.
Destiny itself is meta-commentary for Shinn’s hatred of Orb. The fact that it started out good and gave him high hopes makes him hate it even more passionately when it fails to live up to his expectations. Shows that were never interesting to begin with, like Age, don’t get people arguing constantly twenty years later.
when something is called "the worst ever" people go into it expecting it to kill their entire family, so when they watch it and their family is still alive by the end, it's not as bad as they thought.
That's by design. Tomino's mental health was collapsing and he wanted an out from Bandai.
>Victory Gundam was marred by unreasonable demands from Bandai and other sponsors. By Victory, Bandai’s stranglehold on a show’s actual production process had reached unprecedented levels. For instance, they decided that the titular mobile suit must appear in the first episode, despite Tomino’s planned scenario; this resulted in the first episode being slightly at odds with the introductory narrative. It consists of a future event that’s then explained via flashbacks in the following episodes, all for the sake of Gunpla marketing and promotion. Tomino had dealt with Bandai for over a decade, and at this point in his career he could not take it anymore, so he found ways to retaliate. One time in a meeting with Bandai executives, they demanded that he include battleships into the show in an effort to further appeal to younger audiences. Tomino lashed out by saying he’d make ground-based battleships with wheels on them (the Adrastea-class). To his surprise they accepted his preposterous proposal, and the TV station found no qualms either as long as ratings stayed the course. Tomino continued to make irrational decisions like this and grew to dislike Victory‘s mechanical aesthetic, and it’s a Gundam title generally recognized for its outlandish designs—the infamous Einerad comes to mind. He was also disgusted by its “ugliness”; it’s a very chaotic anime with a high character death count, almost as if Tomino was airing out his frustrations on-screen.
I would say it was AGE, yes. If it wasn't AGE then it might be Build Fighters Try, but everything else isn't seriously in the running when those two are options.
Literally saved Gundam from dying.
Original SD stuff and Sangokuden are among the best things Gundam anime has to offer.
But sure, Force didn't age so well and World could be better.
The only change needed was to frame the whole siding with Chocoman as a tragedy that they sincerely believed in what the guy was saying, only to meet a tragic death instead of romanticizing everything
And at least set them up for failure in a way that feels more satisfying and let the villains not get away every time to make it seem you're watching a Saturday morning cartoon.
I liked the idea of them turning into the 'villains' but they were still the Protagonists so treat them as such.
Some of it is because the show is just genuinely not very good. A lot of it is that /m/ as a whole has the biggest hateboner for Kira and Lacus that they have for anything. It was one of the first Gundam shows that we were all watching live and talking about it on the internet as it aired, and people got really emotionally invested in Shinn and Durandal being right and Kira and Lacus being wrong. When it turned out that Kira and Lacus were right, it broke those people, and their existing dislike of those characters escalated into a frothing hatred that's lasted nearly twenty years.
>When it turned out that Kira and Lacus were right,
Well that's kind of the problem with the show. It didn't just make them RIGHT it went so far out of the way that even disagreeing with them at all may has well been blasphemy. Lots of shows pull the moral gay hero is right bullshit but you'd be pressed to find one that goes this hard.
SEED was terrible and SEED Destiny was even worse. The show is ugly as shit, which hurts even more coming off the back of Turn A. The mecha designs of CE are awful, made even worse when Destiny brings in UC designs. The amount of recycled animation transform-and-pose sequences is more offensive because of this- the posing isn't cool when the Gundams aren't.
CE is very blatantly Gundam for a new audience- Gundam for people who don't like Gundam. Naturally, people who already love Gundam,can be turned off by this.
The increased focus on interpersonal (teen soap opera) character drama just serves to highlight how unlikeable (and worse, uninteresting) the characters are, and how poorly they're written. The melodrama is terrible, the negative colour shot in the first episode of SEED really sets the tone in a big way.
Speaking of the characters, look at Kira and Lacus in particular. Old Jesus Yamato and his beautiful girlfriend are so righteous all the time. Kira is a better pilot and super hacker than everyone else ever, with his supreme Gundam that he reprogrammed himself in ten minutes to be betterer. It would take a regular god of war to challenge Kira, but thankfully he has his super special Seed Mode to make sure he wins anyway. Destiny gives us a new MC, who immediately comes across as an obnoxious c**t, and promptly tosses him aside to show us what Athrun and Kira, the REAL people in a world of NPCs, are up to. Even Shinn's friends constantly talk about his bad attitude and shittiness. Durandal is clearly going to be the villain from the moment you hear his voice, but that's supposed to be a surprise later... so early on, we just have no compelling antagonist. Mounting TENSION around the world leading to skirmishes between mooks and our beloved heroes, wowee. Oh, but the second coming of drugged tard kids in designated jobber Gundams! Now there's a thrill! Cagalli has gone from determined but in over her head to pathetic, ineffectual and stupid.
When we have the exact same threads every single week, eventually they develop to the point where we have them down to a science. Threads like these are a solved game.
Talking about "SEED's popularity" is like arguing about "the ongoing quagmire in Iraq for US troops" or "Apple's revolutionary iPod". A lot of time has gone by, my man.
SEED was outrageously popular two decades ago. Nowadays, it coasts on the nostalgia of all those kids who watched it during middle school.
>Why is it so hated?
Besides the writing issues (which are not exclusive to SEED. I think all of the Gundams have sloppy writing), it came out during the mid 2000s, at the height of the West's phobia of Japanese entertainment. This was the time when IGN was mocking Final Fantasy games, when Power Rangers and Pokemon and Naruto were being derided, etc. It is only natural that the most prominent Gundam show of the time would also be a popular target for mockery. Cinemaphile was also created during this time and the echochamber of thought has persisted to this day. If you look outside of Cinemaphile you will see that most of the haters have moved on, and people discovering it nowadays aren't affected by a seething disdain for Japanese entertainment and view it more objectively (they still point out the flaws, though).
I think there is also an element of Westerners watching SEED with the wrong expectations. They're expecting another realistic war story, but at its heart SEED is a romantic story about how teenagers and the power of love and idealism can change the world, which Westerners tend to be allergic to.
>They're expecting another realistic war story, but at its heart SEED is a romantic story about how teenagers and the power of love and idealism can change the world, which Westerners tend to be allergic to.
So basically Wing? Which Westerners seem to adore.
>love and idealism can change the world, >End game of the Show is Trieze wants a war to end all wars wrapped in knight and chivalry nonsense westerners love >final message of EW is total pacifism, Relena's idealism, doesn't work
SEED seems to be well liked and popular outside the west. Destiny not so much. meanhile G and Wing are pretty much forgotten outside US. it truly is a show that manged to connect with peple outside the anglosphere/west. which is par for the course since no country had the hate boner for anime like the US had and still has. I got surprised that the nagatoro S2 trailer mentioned that show exploded in South America. There were also cases like France, Brazil and Italy getting simultaneous release of the last EVA manga volume alongside Japan.
In Italy's defense, it was the very first exposition of a complete gundam show under their tv.
The original MSG was morphed into a weird chimera of westernizations and censure (i will never forget Amuro getting called PETER RAY, fraw bow MIRKA etc...). It was basically the Italian equivalent of 4kids's One piece dub. And after that, beside Gundam Wing, Italy didn't had a proper dub or broadcasting of any gundam show until 2010s.
After that people started some serious dubs for Z, reworking on MSG and the three movies, CCA etc...
So yeah, for a long while, Gundam Wing was the only proper gundam show in Italy.
2000s were peak anime popularity of any decade. It was the biggest pokemon sales until pokemon go. Every kid was watching dragon ball z no matter the race or social status. Anime was never bigger than in the 2000s and dominated prime time kids TV. Anime was getting slots on the sci fi channel and jrpgs were literally the biggest genre on the PlayStation, which was the biggest fricking console of the time.
You find 1 shitty g4 review segment shitting on jrpgs and distort history around it. Missing endless pop culture references to anime and its popularity from South parks chingpokemon to bare naked ladies singing about sailor moon being hot. Pokemon and digimon movies seeing cinema releases and doing extremely well with ost cds flying off the shelves.
This desperate need to always be the victim is so fricking stupid. Anime was as main stream as ever in the 2000s. Japanese media was popular with your parents generation watching dubbed kung fu movies they rented on vhs. And their parents grew up watching dubbed anime like battle of the planets. Gorilla had enough staying power to get American made spin offs and was a staple of vhs rentals before then.
You twitter homosexuals crying this bullshit were not alive in this era. You have no clue what it was like and how constant anime was. You would think pokemon might give you a hint but you're too fricking stupid to realize the literal biggest thing on the planet at its peak might be an example of what is and isn't popular and accepted.
Seed Destiny started off as an 8/10 for me. I was wondering what the frick people were talking about when I first watched it. But then it took a huge nosedive in the last 13 or so episodes. Shinn is still my favorite gundam protag
I struggled to get through the first episode of SEED, the main character, particularly his design, was so unbearable that I couldn't go on. I do like a lot of the SEED gunpla kits though so I guess it's got that going for it.
Durandal's beliefs are based entirely on his feelings of being cucked about Talia, and he does many wrong things like keep unnecessarily antagonizing Kira and Lacus and driving them into a crusade against him that eventually ruins his plans and gets him killed.
The fact that he’s a biological essentialist and everyone should be assigned and categorized according to their genes which determines their destiny is the red-pilled truth though, he was right.
Durandal's plans failed due to execution. He did his parts perfectly but was poor staff constantly failing on their end.
The fricking Earth Alliance followed his orders better than his own men who couldn't ever pull off a mission.
That being said, it might be said that this in itself was a flaw since he predicates all these plans on people moving the way they're supposed to with zero contingency if they screw up. Rau by comparison was smart enough to adjust constantly around opportunities and failures.
Durandal's beliefs are based entirely on his feelings of being cucked about Talia, and he does many wrong things like keep unnecessarily antagonizing Kira and Lacus and driving them into a crusade against him that eventually ruins his plans and gets him killed.
Destiny is unironically my favourite Gundam, but you gotta remember a lot of the context, especially if you watched it for the first time and enjoyed it recently.
Watching it weekly, you had a show that actually started off really nicely that just went fricking moronic over time. It also followed Seed which was fricking massive at the time and more or less universally beloved, before the opinion on the first show became divisive over time. A major part of the love was the characters, which was the part of the original that got done most dirty going into Destiny with Athrun and Cagalli getting it particularly bad. These are all factors that net a show much more hate than if it was simply, consistently mediocre.
Watching it weekly was fricking painful too because of all the filler content. The remaster is some episodes shorter overall and replaces a lot of the filler content with actual stuff even after the fact. The Seed remaster is questionable, but the Destiny remaster is such a big improvement over the original that a lot of people who only watched it back in the day never got to see.
These days everyone who watches it, new or returning, goes in with tempered expectations too and tend to appreciate it much more for what it is than what it should've been. Which still isn't great by any objective metric, but makes it much more palatable and a lot easier to love.
I don't understand how Durandal had all the intel connections/resources to pull this shit off.
>Had connections to deliberately leak Chaos/Gaia/Abyss to the EAF, but also the ability to keep Impulse secret. >Rey was the one who told Talia to do the Lodonia Lab recon mission? >Knew about Destroy before it was first used. >Knew all the LOGOS members.
He's been in office like five minutes and before that he was a biologist. Did Rau hand over his network?
>Did Rau hand over his network?
Durandal was close friends with Rau and the one supplying him with his pills, so probably, yeah.
>friends
If that’s how Durandal wants to see it sure. Dude worked at Mendel. No way Rau had anything but seething burning hatred for him in his heart despite what Gil’s brian ghosts say
Durandal's just incredibly lucky in most cases. The sheer dumb luck that all his enemies keep making moves that have his ace pilot personally hate their guts and have excuses to legally attack them is kind of crazy.
Everything relating to Stellar was luck. But Kira and the Archangel, even Athrun, were a win-win-win for Durandal—they joined ZAFT or sat the war out, in which case whatever, or they got in the way, in which point Rey heckles Shinn into rage mode.
And hey maybe he had footage of Freedom blowing up Shinn’s family as an ace of his sleeve.
I'm drunk and annoyed that the soundtrack doesn't weave some of Shinn's leitmotif from "Shutsugeki! Impulse" into "Akuma no Keiyaku" once the latter became the default BGM for Shinn fighting.
>Stock footage out the ass. Rivaling even Wing. >Majority of characters are bland planks of wood, or are assassinated by the writers. >Absolutely 0 stakes whatsoever. Multiple character deaths are undone with nothing more than 'uhhh actually they lived because they're popular'. >Forgos much of the CE style in favor of walmart brand UC retreads.
If it's not the worst gundam, its pretty damn close. At least AGE didn't reuse the same shots 500 times.
much of the CE style in favor of walmart brand UC retreads.
I really hope that the GiNNS in the Freedom trailer are current suits. I want ZAFT to get back their own identity.
They wouldn't go back to 5 year old suits at that point, and it's rumored that whole sequence in a Seed era flashback showing Ginn's against the original Freedom to market the A.N.I.M.E. ver Freedom figure that will presumably be coming out around this time if they keep their release schedule consistent.
However hopefully whatever Zaft grunts they use they're based more on Ginn's then UC ripoffs.
You really need to watch Destiny in it's original form (not the HD remaster patch) to truly appreciate how badly managed and off the rails it went.
What started out as an interesting scenario with a fresh MC and crew basically devolves into a series of clipshows, rampant stock footage abuse, confused writing, and an ending that needed 3 (that's right, THREE) different re-dos in order to make it slightly more coherent.
I was pretty fresh to anime when Destiny aired and had no preconceived ideas about the franchise. But even I realised midway through the show that something was seriously wrong behind-the-scenes.
So yeah, track down the original broadcast rips of Destiny if you really want to see why it broke the internet. The HD remaster is almost a different show entirely and a dishonest attempt to try paint over the biggest flaws of the series.
And hell even when Kira and friends DID come back people were still hyped because the casts fighting it out sounded cool and obviously it would just be a tempoary thing and they expected it would happen for better reasons than "Cagalli is crying"
I don't think they forgot. That was just one of their attempted "fixes" when it was pointed out that Kira and Athrun have the final confrontation despite him never meeting or interacted with Talia and Durandal before
Both Talia and Rey dying is stupid IMO. The kid is understandably mad at Talia for abandoning him and he also knew that Talia is in a relationship with Durandal.
Also that drama CD said that there's no casualty when Athrun sink the Minerva? Some of the comments though said that some Minerva crews actually died including one of Shinn's mechanic friend.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Most of them seemed ok and we see Arthur evacuating the crew and everyone seems accounted for
watching the original ending without seeing the final plus OVA might be the worst ending in any piece of media. maybe mass effect 3 comes close
Final Plus is, from Shinn's perspective, even more insulting than the original ending: >FLAWLESS VICTORY still happens >Insult #1: Shinn and Lunamaria are rescued by Athrun after he beat their asses >Insult #2: begging Kira for forgiveness
As it is, Shinn has no character of his own. After being Durandal's puppet for the whole series, Final Plus has him becoming yet another Kira/Lacus puppet, right next to Athrun and the DOM pilots.
As bad as it was, the original finale at least has the chance, the idea that Shinn might take a path of his own at some stage.
I mean from like the middle point on it's just a weird echo of the second half of regular SEED, which I didn't like ether.
You essentially got two shows where I was only really able to enjoy one half.
>from like the middle point on it's just a weird echo of the second half of regular SEED, which I didn't like ether.
I'd say from episode 13 or so. It's obvious they ran out of ideas at that point.
I don't think they ran out of ideas but it felt like the writing staff were fighting each other and throwing shit at the wall until the eleventh hour to see what stuck.
Going by the credits, Morosawa was practically running the show by herself.
The only two episodes on which she isn't officially credited are the one on which Lacus does the switcheroo with Meer and escapes on a stolen ZAFT shuttle, and a clip show.
Maybe, maybe not. But a normal bad Gundam is bad in a way that just feels really dumb. This was bad in a way that was constantly kind of frustrating and annoying.
Destiny itself is meta-commentary for Shinn’s hatred of Orb. The fact that it started out good and gave him high hopes makes him hate it even more passionately when it fails to live up to his expectations. Shows that were never interesting to begin with, like Age, don’t get people arguing constantly twenty years later.
>that bad
So you're saying it was still bad?
when something is called "the worst ever" people go into it expecting it to kill their entire family, so when they watch it and their family is still alive by the end, it's not as bad as they thought.
Are these "people" capable of dressing themselves?
>Definitely not the worst gundam show they’ve made.
So, which one was it? AGE?
Victory was unwatchable for me.
That's by design. Tomino's mental health was collapsing and he wanted an out from Bandai.
>Victory Gundam was marred by unreasonable demands from Bandai and other sponsors. By Victory, Bandai’s stranglehold on a show’s actual production process had reached unprecedented levels. For instance, they decided that the titular mobile suit must appear in the first episode, despite Tomino’s planned scenario; this resulted in the first episode being slightly at odds with the introductory narrative. It consists of a future event that’s then explained via flashbacks in the following episodes, all for the sake of Gunpla marketing and promotion. Tomino had dealt with Bandai for over a decade, and at this point in his career he could not take it anymore, so he found ways to retaliate. One time in a meeting with Bandai executives, they demanded that he include battleships into the show in an effort to further appeal to younger audiences. Tomino lashed out by saying he’d make ground-based battleships with wheels on them (the Adrastea-class). To his surprise they accepted his preposterous proposal, and the TV station found no qualms either as long as ratings stayed the course. Tomino continued to make irrational decisions like this and grew to dislike Victory‘s mechanical aesthetic, and it’s a Gundam title generally recognized for its outlandish designs—the infamous Einerad comes to mind. He was also disgusted by its “ugliness”; it’s a very chaotic anime with a high character death count, almost as if Tomino was airing out his frustrations on-screen.
https://tsukinomayu.com/2021/03/28/the-history-and-production-of-turn-a-gundam-part-i-victory-gundam-battling-depression/
Destiny doesn't have that excuse, rumours of Morosawa's illness notwithstanding.
I still found Victory to be pretty good despite all this.
To be fair, the Adrastea-class battleship is cool as frick
I would say it was AGE, yes. If it wasn't AGE then it might be Build Fighters Try, but everything else isn't seriously in the running when those two are options.
Nah, AGE is vastly overhated. IBO, Twilight Axis, Try and all the SD shit are vastly worse and way too underhated.
>SD shit
You never watched any.
Because it's that fricking garbage.
Literally saved Gundam from dying.
Original SD stuff and Sangokuden are among the best things Gundam anime has to offer.
But sure, Force didn't age so well and World could be better.
IBO season 1 is good
IBO season 2 's ideas are good but done horribly.
The only change needed was to frame the whole siding with Chocoman as a tragedy that they sincerely believed in what the guy was saying, only to meet a tragic death instead of romanticizing everything
And at least set them up for failure in a way that feels more satisfying and let the villains not get away every time to make it seem you're watching a Saturday morning cartoon.
I liked the idea of them turning into the 'villains' but they were still the Protagonists so treat them as such.
Some of it is because the show is just genuinely not very good. A lot of it is that /m/ as a whole has the biggest hateboner for Kira and Lacus that they have for anything. It was one of the first Gundam shows that we were all watching live and talking about it on the internet as it aired, and people got really emotionally invested in Shinn and Durandal being right and Kira and Lacus being wrong. When it turned out that Kira and Lacus were right, it broke those people, and their existing dislike of those characters escalated into a frothing hatred that's lasted nearly twenty years.
>When it turned out that Kira and Lacus were right,
Well that's kind of the problem with the show. It didn't just make them RIGHT it went so far out of the way that even disagreeing with them at all may has well been blasphemy. Lots of shows pull the moral gay hero is right bullshit but you'd be pressed to find one that goes this hard.
SEED was terrible and SEED Destiny was even worse. The show is ugly as shit, which hurts even more coming off the back of Turn A. The mecha designs of CE are awful, made even worse when Destiny brings in UC designs. The amount of recycled animation transform-and-pose sequences is more offensive because of this- the posing isn't cool when the Gundams aren't.
CE is very blatantly Gundam for a new audience- Gundam for people who don't like Gundam. Naturally, people who already love Gundam,can be turned off by this.
The increased focus on interpersonal (teen soap opera) character drama just serves to highlight how unlikeable (and worse, uninteresting) the characters are, and how poorly they're written. The melodrama is terrible, the negative colour shot in the first episode of SEED really sets the tone in a big way.
Speaking of the characters, look at Kira and Lacus in particular. Old Jesus Yamato and his beautiful girlfriend are so righteous all the time. Kira is a better pilot and super hacker than everyone else ever, with his supreme Gundam that he reprogrammed himself in ten minutes to be betterer. It would take a regular god of war to challenge Kira, but thankfully he has his super special Seed Mode to make sure he wins anyway. Destiny gives us a new MC, who immediately comes across as an obnoxious c**t, and promptly tosses him aside to show us what Athrun and Kira, the REAL people in a world of NPCs, are up to. Even Shinn's friends constantly talk about his bad attitude and shittiness. Durandal is clearly going to be the villain from the moment you hear his voice, but that's supposed to be a surprise later... so early on, we just have no compelling antagonist. Mounting TENSION around the world leading to skirmishes between mooks and our beloved heroes, wowee. Oh, but the second coming of drugged tard kids in designated jobber Gundams! Now there's a thrill! Cagalli has gone from determined but in over her head to pathetic, ineffectual and stupid.
People have been making those exact same points for years now.
When we have the exact same threads every single week, eventually they develop to the point where we have them down to a science. Threads like these are a solved game.
>Ask what 2+2 is
>Ask why you keep getting 4 for years
Everything seed is the worst gundam show they've made rofl
Why is it so outrageously popular then?
Talking about "SEED's popularity" is like arguing about "the ongoing quagmire in Iraq for US troops" or "Apple's revolutionary iPod". A lot of time has gone by, my man.
SEED was outrageously popular two decades ago. Nowadays, it coasts on the nostalgia of all those kids who watched it during middle school.
because women are moronic
Because we can't stop talking about it ;^)
Hey, as much as SEED is garbage, Stargazer is an excellent OVA in and of itself.
>Why is it so hated?
Besides the writing issues (which are not exclusive to SEED. I think all of the Gundams have sloppy writing), it came out during the mid 2000s, at the height of the West's phobia of Japanese entertainment. This was the time when IGN was mocking Final Fantasy games, when Power Rangers and Pokemon and Naruto were being derided, etc. It is only natural that the most prominent Gundam show of the time would also be a popular target for mockery. Cinemaphile was also created during this time and the echochamber of thought has persisted to this day. If you look outside of Cinemaphile you will see that most of the haters have moved on, and people discovering it nowadays aren't affected by a seething disdain for Japanese entertainment and view it more objectively (they still point out the flaws, though).
I think there is also an element of Westerners watching SEED with the wrong expectations. They're expecting another realistic war story, but at its heart SEED is a romantic story about how teenagers and the power of love and idealism can change the world, which Westerners tend to be allergic to.
>They're expecting another realistic war story, but at its heart SEED is a romantic story about how teenagers and the power of love and idealism can change the world, which Westerners tend to be allergic to.
So basically Wing? Which Westerners seem to adore.
>love and idealism can change the world,
>End game of the Show is Trieze wants a war to end all wars wrapped in knight and chivalry nonsense westerners love
>final message of EW is total pacifism, Relena's idealism, doesn't work
You fail to consider why Treize is like that, as well as the ways Wing end game could've gone.
SEED seems to be well liked and popular outside the west. Destiny not so much. meanhile G and Wing are pretty much forgotten outside US. it truly is a show that manged to connect with peple outside the anglosphere/west. which is par for the course since no country had the hate boner for anime like the US had and still has. I got surprised that the nagatoro S2 trailer mentioned that show exploded in South America. There were also cases like France, Brazil and Italy getting simultaneous release of the last EVA manga volume alongside Japan.
For Italian nostalgiagays they also had Wing which aired on Italian TV about 20 or so years ago.
In Italy's defense, it was the very first exposition of a complete gundam show under their tv.
The original MSG was morphed into a weird chimera of westernizations and censure (i will never forget Amuro getting called PETER RAY, fraw bow MIRKA etc...). It was basically the Italian equivalent of 4kids's One piece dub. And after that, beside Gundam Wing, Italy didn't had a proper dub or broadcasting of any gundam show until 2010s.
After that people started some serious dubs for Z, reworking on MSG and the three movies, CCA etc...
So yeah, for a long while, Gundam Wing was the only proper gundam show in Italy.
This zoomed narrative needs to fricking die.
2000s were peak anime popularity of any decade. It was the biggest pokemon sales until pokemon go. Every kid was watching dragon ball z no matter the race or social status. Anime was never bigger than in the 2000s and dominated prime time kids TV. Anime was getting slots on the sci fi channel and jrpgs were literally the biggest genre on the PlayStation, which was the biggest fricking console of the time.
You find 1 shitty g4 review segment shitting on jrpgs and distort history around it. Missing endless pop culture references to anime and its popularity from South parks chingpokemon to bare naked ladies singing about sailor moon being hot. Pokemon and digimon movies seeing cinema releases and doing extremely well with ost cds flying off the shelves.
This desperate need to always be the victim is so fricking stupid. Anime was as main stream as ever in the 2000s. Japanese media was popular with your parents generation watching dubbed kung fu movies they rented on vhs. And their parents grew up watching dubbed anime like battle of the planets. Gorilla had enough staying power to get American made spin offs and was a staple of vhs rentals before then.
You twitter homosexuals crying this bullshit were not alive in this era. You have no clue what it was like and how constant anime was. You would think pokemon might give you a hint but you're too fricking stupid to realize the literal biggest thing on the planet at its peak might be an example of what is and isn't popular and accepted.
I'm pretty sure most people didn't mentally register those things as Japanese at the time.
SEED and SEED Destiny are the best Gundam shows.
How has this thread gone without a single mention of best girl Meer? She's the cover image.
I wish she would have survived. It would have added a crazy dynamic if Athrun fell for her while looking like Lacus.
>Lacus, but she actually romantically loves me? Don't mind if I do!
Seed Destiny started off as an 8/10 for me. I was wondering what the frick people were talking about when I first watched it. But then it took a huge nosedive in the last 13 or so episodes. Shinn is still my favorite gundam protag
I struggled to get through the first episode of SEED, the main character, particularly his design, was so unbearable that I couldn't go on. I do like a lot of the SEED gunpla kits though so I guess it's got that going for it.
Seed Destiny was a misunderstood masterpiece
Shinn is literally me
OL-san please.
I wish they continued translating it
I don’t know about Destiny as a whole but Durandal’s beliefs were based and he literally did nothing.
Durandal's beliefs are based entirely on his feelings of being cucked about Talia, and he does many wrong things like keep unnecessarily antagonizing Kira and Lacus and driving them into a crusade against him that eventually ruins his plans and gets him killed.
The fact that he’s a biological essentialist and everyone should be assigned and categorized according to their genes which determines their destiny is the red-pilled truth though, he was right.
Durandal's plans failed due to execution. He did his parts perfectly but was poor staff constantly failing on their end.
The fricking Earth Alliance followed his orders better than his own men who couldn't ever pull off a mission.
That being said, it might be said that this in itself was a flaw since he predicates all these plans on people moving the way they're supposed to with zero contingency if they screw up. Rau by comparison was smart enough to adjust constantly around opportunities and failures.
>Durandal's plans failed due to execution. He did his parts perfectly but was poor staff constantly failing on their end.
Any plan that relies so heavily on the actions of others beyond your supervision is doomed to fail from the start.
Based
Cope
Destiny is unironically my favourite Gundam, but you gotta remember a lot of the context, especially if you watched it for the first time and enjoyed it recently.
Watching it weekly, you had a show that actually started off really nicely that just went fricking moronic over time. It also followed Seed which was fricking massive at the time and more or less universally beloved, before the opinion on the first show became divisive over time. A major part of the love was the characters, which was the part of the original that got done most dirty going into Destiny with Athrun and Cagalli getting it particularly bad. These are all factors that net a show much more hate than if it was simply, consistently mediocre.
Watching it weekly was fricking painful too because of all the filler content. The remaster is some episodes shorter overall and replaces a lot of the filler content with actual stuff even after the fact. The Seed remaster is questionable, but the Destiny remaster is such a big improvement over the original that a lot of people who only watched it back in the day never got to see.
These days everyone who watches it, new or returning, goes in with tempered expectations too and tend to appreciate it much more for what it is than what it should've been. Which still isn't great by any objective metric, but makes it much more palatable and a lot easier to love.
I don't understand how Durandal had all the intel connections/resources to pull this shit off.
>Had connections to deliberately leak Chaos/Gaia/Abyss to the EAF, but also the ability to keep Impulse secret.
>Rey was the one who told Talia to do the Lodonia Lab recon mission?
>Knew about Destroy before it was first used.
>Knew all the LOGOS members.
He's been in office like five minutes and before that he was a biologist. Did Rau hand over his network?
>Did Rau hand over his network?
Probably. They were shown to be bros.
>friends
If that’s how Durandal wants to see it sure. Dude worked at Mendel. No way Rau had anything but seething burning hatred for him in his heart despite what Gil’s brian ghosts say
Rau gave Rey to Durandal though. Either he hates Rey or he likes Durandal better than he likes most people.
>does he hate the kid that looks like his dad?
The answer may surprise you
Official art looks friendly though.
And this flashback of Rey’s. If Rau hated Rey, he could have just killed him or left him in a lab.
>Did Rau hand over his network?
Durandal was close friends with Rau and the one supplying him with his pills, so probably, yeah.
Durandal's just incredibly lucky in most cases. The sheer dumb luck that all his enemies keep making moves that have his ace pilot personally hate their guts and have excuses to legally attack them is kind of crazy.
Everything relating to Stellar was luck. But Kira and the Archangel, even Athrun, were a win-win-win for Durandal—they joined ZAFT or sat the war out, in which case whatever, or they got in the way, in which point Rey heckles Shinn into rage mode.
And hey maybe he had footage of Freedom blowing up Shinn’s family as an ace of his sleeve.
He is secret member of LOGOS, of course he knows.
I'm drunk and annoyed that the soundtrack doesn't weave some of Shinn's leitmotif from "Shutsugeki! Impulse" into "Akuma no Keiyaku" once the latter became the default BGM for Shinn fighting.
>Stock footage out the ass. Rivaling even Wing.
>Majority of characters are bland planks of wood, or are assassinated by the writers.
>Absolutely 0 stakes whatsoever. Multiple character deaths are undone with nothing more than 'uhhh actually they lived because they're popular'.
>Forgos much of the CE style in favor of walmart brand UC retreads.
If it's not the worst gundam, its pretty damn close. At least AGE didn't reuse the same shots 500 times.
much of the CE style in favor of walmart brand UC retreads.
I really hope that the GiNNS in the Freedom trailer are current suits. I want ZAFT to get back their own identity.
They wouldn't go back to 5 year old suits at that point, and it's rumored that whole sequence in a Seed era flashback showing Ginn's against the original Freedom to market the A.N.I.M.E. ver Freedom figure that will presumably be coming out around this time if they keep their release schedule consistent.
However hopefully whatever Zaft grunts they use they're based more on Ginn's then UC ripoffs.
We already know there's a CE version of Gyan appearing.
You really need to watch Destiny in it's original form (not the HD remaster patch) to truly appreciate how badly managed and off the rails it went.
What started out as an interesting scenario with a fresh MC and crew basically devolves into a series of clipshows, rampant stock footage abuse, confused writing, and an ending that needed 3 (that's right, THREE) different re-dos in order to make it slightly more coherent.
I was pretty fresh to anime when Destiny aired and had no preconceived ideas about the franchise. But even I realised midway through the show that something was seriously wrong behind-the-scenes.
So yeah, track down the original broadcast rips of Destiny if you really want to see why it broke the internet. The HD remaster is almost a different show entirely and a dishonest attempt to try paint over the biggest flaws of the series.
And hell even when Kira and friends DID come back people were still hyped because the casts fighting it out sounded cool and obviously it would just be a tempoary thing and they expected it would happen for better reasons than "Cagalli is crying"
watching the original ending without seeing the final plus OVA might be the worst ending in any piece of media. maybe mass effect 3 comes close
>forget to put Athrun in the final scene
>add him in for Final Plus
I love this show but it’s a mess.
I don't think they forgot. That was just one of their attempted "fixes" when it was pointed out that Kira and Athrun have the final confrontation despite him never meeting or interacted with Talia and Durandal before
Kira and not Athrun that is
Talia dying is stupid. The CD drama where Arthur visits her kid is even more bizarre. https://youtu.be/vL9EbHKSRvc
Both Talia and Rey dying is stupid IMO. The kid is understandably mad at Talia for abandoning him and he also knew that Talia is in a relationship with Durandal.
Also that drama CD said that there's no casualty when Athrun sink the Minerva? Some of the comments though said that some Minerva crews actually died including one of Shinn's mechanic friend.
Most of them seemed ok and we see Arthur evacuating the crew and everyone seems accounted for
The most hilarious part of Destiny's original ending was they leave Shinn and Luna stranded on the moon in punctured spacesuits waiting to die XD
Final Plus is, from Shinn's perspective, even more insulting than the original ending:
>FLAWLESS VICTORY still happens
>Insult #1: Shinn and Lunamaria are rescued by Athrun after he beat their asses
>Insult #2: begging Kira for forgiveness
As it is, Shinn has no character of his own. After being Durandal's puppet for the whole series, Final Plus has him becoming yet another Kira/Lacus puppet, right next to Athrun and the DOM pilots.
As bad as it was, the original finale at least has the chance, the idea that Shinn might take a path of his own at some stage.
Shinn will be fine.
>Insult #1: Shinn and Lunamaria are rescued by Athrun after he beat their asses
Should they have just been left there to suffocate?
Destiny should have ended with Shinn versus Rey, and Meer killing Durandal.
Unicorn for me. Destiny was just boring bad but Unicorn felt way too up its own farts
I mean from like the middle point on it's just a weird echo of the second half of regular SEED, which I didn't like ether.
You essentially got two shows where I was only really able to enjoy one half.
>from like the middle point on it's just a weird echo of the second half of regular SEED, which I didn't like ether.
I'd say from episode 13 or so. It's obvious they ran out of ideas at that point.
I don't think they ran out of ideas but it felt like the writing staff were fighting each other and throwing shit at the wall until the eleventh hour to see what stuck.
Going by the credits, Morosawa was practically running the show by herself.
The only two episodes on which she isn't officially credited are the one on which Lacus does the switcheroo with Meer and escapes on a stolen ZAFT shuttle, and a clip show.