>Kind of surprised War Journal bombed
John Stewart fans are DCAUgays who don't read comics. They're the type of people who are more enticed by the concept of a black hero but couldn't;t care less about actually supporting one.
This is true mainly because most of his fans grew out of comics a decade ago and as adults don't think of "Green Lantern" as someone that needs their financial support. Go tell DC to get their online comics in a better state before the start b***hing about people not buying things.
>This is true mainly because most of his fans grew out of comics a decade ago
Most of his fans never touched a comic book, they went into manga and anime because that's what JL shared the timeslot with on Toonami, and those that did realized he was the boring guy on the team.
Green Lantern isn't a very strong IP these days but John especially can not carry a solo title. At first I blamed a string of writers that don't know how to make him interesting but after a while I have to start blaming the character too
>Green Lantern isn't a very strong IP these days but John especially can not carry a solo title.
It was a golden goose but the failure of the movie definitely stopped the hypetrain. Then the Nu-52 put further strain on thanks to the inane premise. Obviously, Geoff Johns and Peter Tomasi left it in a better state than just about every other IP minus Batman but the new editors and Venditti pretty much eroded it and it went from a premiere comic to just another comic on the rack.
Johns' run was incredibly strong but it ran for 8+ years across multiple books and events and by the end he was really running out of steam. The ending pages of First Lantern was good but the actual New 52 run was the low point of his run in terms of quality, and then Vendetti picked it up and shit all over it which killed GL in the comics alongside the movie just not doing well
>he ending pages of First Lantern was good but the actual New 52 run was the low point of his run in terms of quality, and then Vendetti picked it up and shit all over it which killed GL in the comics alongside the movie just not doing well
I nearly agree on all accounts. The last run was weak but the final battle against Volthoom was a great send-off that beats a strong beginning and weak ending.
The writers following Geoff were actually very strong, and did stories that were core to what Johns had set up. The DC hype train just stayed on Johns and let GL die.
Because Lee and Nelson wanted it to die, because their New52 died after 4 years, with the same shitty and painfully deserved death as all new all different marvel shit.
Even worse is that Both companies under their main higher ups Warner and Disney shut down both of their fandom favorite games that were DCUO and Marvel Heroes, they killed the companies out of spite.
> but the failure of the movie definitely stopped the hypetrain
I still feel more people might have seen the movie had the used John Stewart instead of Hal Jordan. I think by the time the movie came out, normies were more familiar with the DCAU version of Green Lantern and were confused why he wasn't black in the movie.
>I still feel more people might have seen the movie had the used John Stewart instead of Hal Jordan.
It would have sold even less with John Stewart because you need Hal Jordan to set up all the story angles in the first place. Plus the movie came out years after the show wrapped up and the audience moved on to anime or whatever cartoon CN had on that time.
>I still feel more people might have seen the movie had the used John Stewart instead of Hal Jordan.
It would have sold even less with John Stewart because you need Hal Jordan to set up all the story angles in the first place. Plus the movie came out years after the show wrapped up and the audience moved on to anime or whatever cartoon CN had on that time.
Also coming from the JL cartoon, John was just really boring.
>At first I blamed a string of writers that don't know how to make him interesting but after a while I have to start blaming the character too
John Stewart as a character was fricked from the start because Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams wanted a Green Lantern who was BLACK. John Stewart was so fricking 70s I'm surprised he didn't have a pan-Africa medallion and a fro.Literally, the only time he was interesting was when they dumped that shit and made him sheriff of a shitpost planet.
John fails for the same reason Cyborg always fails. He has no side cast, no major villains, no major story arcs that he is well known for, and no major defining traits that let him stand out. When he does get into the spotlight, he never does much hero shit and it always turns into some kind of personal story, further failing to establish a side cast or villain. which is the only reason anyone reads a cape book in the first place.
NTA but that sums up a lot of side characters once they get their own book/story to shine in. One writer leaving their mark won't be carried by the next one causing the character to feel disjointed and never see their true potential.
Cyborg is even worse. John can at least do fun space shit and has the other GLs to play around with. Cyborg on the other hand has been stuck telling the same story in every solo book he's ever been, or being a discount Martian manhunter for whatever group he's in.
wasn't it only supposed to be 6 issues long originally?
it was always a limited series, and AFAIK it IS doing well.
i think OP and the twitter rando might both have been a little disingenuous (people post shit like this every time a limited series with a non-white, non-male lead approaches its end because they don't even read comics enough to know what a limited series means)
personally i've been really enjoying reading War Journal's 'civilian life'-subplot but couldn't care less about the space zombies plot, funnily enough.
Tom King sells well too. Look at his Wonder Woman.
Superman books have been doing well due to the House of Brainiac event too.
i am alright with looking at it, but reading it is not nearly as pleasant (it is being hard carried by the art)
“Limited series” is an eternal precope to save face to prepare for something not selling. Green Arrow was a limited series and it upgraded to ongoing when it was well recieved. Theres no such thing as a true limited series anymore. Anything that sells gets more issues.
if it were originally a 12-issue limited series, i'd probably agree with you, but a 6-issue limited monthly series is basically never going to get to full series status unless it's an INCREDIBLE breakout success - it has two big hurdles to cross, the 6 -> 12 extension and the 12 -> full series extension, and both are difficult from a writing (since you're often building a series off the foundation of a single short arc) and fan engagement standpoint (since some people avoid limited series, or wait until they're complete to binge them)
Everyone has to admit
They need Johns and HEAT for Green Lantern.
But Jism Lee and Diane Nelson finished their killing coup at DC to push homosexualry, with lee now hating his past drawing.
It was a limited series to begin with but because of the decent word of mouth they most likely extended it. That being said the good word of mouth was disingenuous at best it really wasn’t that good, mainly because the storyline/big bad was nonsensical garbage that was hard to follow. The only thing the book had going for it was Johns mom having Alzheimer’s… but after the reveal it kinda fell flat as well.
>Thought it was getting strong word of mouth
Shills pushing it desperately aren’t word of mouth. Johnson or his friends did the same with his god awful warworld saga too. He’s just not a good writer.
This is sad news actually. They’re just going to crowbar this shitstain into Hal’s book now to keep him in print like they did with Jo. We need a new Green Lantern Corps title to shovel these freeloaders off into. But even then i’d rather see Guy and Jessica leading that. Maybe Arisia too.
Maybe black people can, you know, spend money on the things they want? So they will continue to happen? Funny how they expect to just be pandered to for existing and offer zero trade-off for meeting their irrational demands to be dominant everywhere.
It's ironic that black people support Anime and manga, despite the near complete lack of representation... while Western "creatives" insist that representation is the most important aspect of modern entertainment. You CANNOT have a modern entertainment product without adding diversity, meanwhile the consumers just prioritize creative, fun, and sexy products.
>You CANNOT have a modern entertainment product without adding diversity, meanwhile the consumers just prioritize creative, fun, and sexy products.
Imagine saying something like this in a GL thread knowing people love the Corps.
>It's ironic that white people support Anime and manga, despite the near complete lack of representation... while Western "creatives" insist that representation is the most important aspect of modern entertainment. You CANNOT have a modern entertainment product without white people, meanwhile the consumers just prioritize creative, fun, and sexy products.
My point is that the audience (white, black, whatever) wants creativity more than representation. Representation is meaningless, I don't need to see White people in kung fu films anymore than Black people need to see Black Gundam pilots or Mexicans caring about Latino Saiyans in DBZ.
Western media insists on representation as the most essential (and often only) aspect of an entertainment product. Whites, Blacks, Latinos, Asians just laugh at Western media progressives and continue consuming whatever product appeals to them.
>My point is that the audience (white, black, whatever) wants creativity more than representation
No, they want something cool, they want good designs, good battles, charismatic characters, you don't need to be creative for those things, all you need is to be competent and give a frick, no one in DC give a frick about what people think is cool, they want to show off some kind of imaginary power they have over a dead company.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because actual consumers do not give a flying frick about >Representation
they just want a fun story with cool shit happening in it.
This is what something like..,EVERY single creative in the US refuses to understand.
One might have thought all the shows that were successful but really didn't have humans front and center might have taught people this.
Transformers did really well, while people can't actually relate to a giant robot from space, they shoot lasers and turn into jets so who cares?
Looney Tunes and Ducktales did incredibly well, while kids can't relate to talking ducks and rabbits, they don't care.
Animaniacs are even more unrelatable, no one related to wacky crazy doodles from the 1930s.
Viewers by and large do not give a shit if something is relatable to them. They just want the entertainment and cool visuals. Psychology degrees need to get the frick out of entertainment already. Neurotic adults keep trying to make shows about race. Deranged adults keep trying to make comics about gender. Creepy adults keep trying to make movies about puberty. While some of the biggest franchises in history only had big robots punching each other, mutant turtles kicking robots, wacky rabbits dropping pianos on people, a talking sponge catching jellyfish.
It's weird how the biggest, most beloved franchises in entertainment never talked about race, gender, or puberty right? No, no it isn't It should not even be a fricking surprise. No shit the biggest franchises that everyone loves never says a single fricking thing about race, gender, or puberty.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
This is just >I am white
:The Post
It is hard to even begin to explain why and how you are wrong. but it is easier to just understand you are a racist pining for the Gool ol' Days. As usual...
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>W-W-W-WAYSISS!!!
Opinion discarded.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Transformers did really well, while people can't actually relate to a giant robot from space, they shoot lasers and turn into jets so who cares?
the most ironic thing is, they constantly tried to add humans into the franchise so that "people can relate", when in reality every kid always wanted the humans gone so that the show/movies can focus on the giant robots instead.
I think the problem is already perfectly displayed in that tweet. They did not write a book and expect it to attract readers due to the story being interesting, or fun things happening that people would want to read about.
They thought they could slap a book together, stick a black character in the lead and every black reader would run to buy three copies on basic principle that it was a book with a black lead. And when it fails they fall back on blaming everyone else for being racist instead of themselves for not making something people are interested in. It's always the customer's fault.
There are too many GLs and Stewart can easily be killed off and stay dead to hype an event. Death of Green Lantern would be a cool book even, do in the style of Death of Superman.
>There are too many GLs and Stewart can easily be killed off and stay dead to hype an event.
Reminder this crybaby sack of shit left when the editors presented him with an angle to kill off John Stewart and said it would set back black heroes and shit on Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams' work.
who? you fricking comic nerds think people memorize these people just because you have a hateboner on someone for writing a book like 20 people read lmao
black people vote with their wallets the same as the rest of us
my lcbs’s resident black guy is a iron man gay, is he supposed to financially support ironheart just because shes muh black? no
tired off racial grifters yapping about comics they didnt read themselves going out of print.
said the virtue signalling racial grifters are finally getting their due and going out of business. It was never sustainable to keep taking losses.
And I’m glad to see this pandering finally end. I agree with you about it not being sustainable, but honestly there was a time when it felt like it was never going to end.
It sucks for John fans but some of the Green Lanterns seriously need to die. There is no fricking reason there needs to be this many Earth-based GLs.
Unironically what did DC ever did to promote black characters? All they ever did was a bunch of outrage bait choices like temporary race change actors and new sidekicks they would clearly be discarded.
Black Lightning, Mr Terrific, Bumblebee, Vixen and Cyborg never get to do anything important, and they are doing the same to gay characters, Superman and Aquaman sidekicks aside all their gay characters were abandoned even Midnighter who got his own little fandom. Stop shilling sidekicks, start shilling actual main characters.
I was gonna say "what? Garth had Tula and married Dolphin" but then I remembered the current Aqualad is a literal gay Black person. lol
you can't really frame it like you would the death of superman because unlike superman there's ten other green lanterns ready to jump into the spotlight and replace him
black people vote with their wallets the same as the rest of us
my lcbs’s resident black guy is a iron man gay, is he supposed to financially support ironheart just because shes muh black? no
tired off racial grifters yapping about comics they didnt read themselves going out of print.
>black people vote with their wallets the same as the rest of us
And by their wallets I mean wallets they stole after sucker punching some 70 year old White dude
Well DC is pretty white. All the most powerful characters are white. All their women are tamed or strong enough to be noticed but not tough enough to hang with the big boys.
It's pretty basic and kind of stale. Which is hard to change. It's pretty much white guy powerful fantasies and to hell with every other minority, culture, or whatever.
Unironically what did DC ever did to promote black characters? All they ever did was a bunch of outrage bait choices like temporary race change actors and new sidekicks they would clearly be discarded.
Black Lightning, Mr Terrific, Bumblebee, Vixen and Cyborg never get to do anything important, and they are doing the same to gay characters, Superman and Aquaman sidekicks aside all their gay characters were abandoned even Midnighter who got his own little fandom. Stop shilling sidekicks, start shilling actual main characters.
>Black Lightning, Mr Terrific, Bumblebee, Vixen and Cyborg never get to do anything important
Like what? Join the JLA? Lead a team of superheroes? Save the world? They have did those things but no one seems to care?
They didnt, every single DC event is about Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman and sometimes Hal Jordan and Flash, the only superhero teams in DC that ever do anything relevant is the Justice League whose leadership is consistently Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. None of those characters is an important member to the Justice League none of them have even an unique friendship with any of the trinity members, none of them are an important character in most events.
So is Captain America and Spider-Man to Marvel but you don't see Captain America and Spider-man joinining forces and saving the multiverse by themselves while every other character stay in the background every single event.
Because all of Black Characterization these days is MUH Victimish and MUH I CANT BRREATHE when God Himself blasted the wall with a lightning to send a message to everyone praising the fricker as a divine entity
>Green Lantern isn't a very strong IP these days but John especially can not carry a solo title.
It was a golden goose but the failure of the movie definitely stopped the hypetrain. Then the Nu-52 put further strain on thanks to the inane premise. Obviously, Geoff Johns and Peter Tomasi left it in a better state than just about every other IP minus Batman but the new editors and Venditti pretty much eroded it and it went from a premiere comic to just another comic on the rack.
Green Lantern isn't a very strong IP these days but John especially can not carry a solo title. At first I blamed a string of writers that don't know how to make him interesting but after a while I have to start blaming the character too
DC also fricked with Jess out of simple spite because she sold better and she was more popular than Simon Baz and the now Token Bingo Sheboon.
In fact, DC is literally killing everything Johns did to save the fricking company out of spite because Lee and Nelson hates him for killing the Shit that was New 52 aka "Wildcats for morons"
>DC also fricked with Jess out of simple spite because she sold better and she was more popular than Simon Baz and the now Token Bingo Sheboon.
In all honesty, I'm more fine with Jo than I am with John. John brings nothing to the table but at least Jo has a fat ass.
DC fricked Jessica because EVS is her co-creator. And no I’m not a “le gator” I’ve called them soda slugging homosexuals for years. But that’s just obviously why they hate her.
>DC fricked Jessica because EVS is her co-creator. And no I’m not a “le gator” I’ve called them soda slugging homosexuals for years.
If that was the case then Jess would have been pulled from that awful superhero girl cartoon. The truth is that Jessica Cruz (and Simon Baz) does not move numbers on paper. Jo Mullein doubly so, but the fallout of Didio's failed 5G pulled her in.
>Jess could do fine if given a solo by an actual writer.
That could be said about any character, but the truth is that female heroes just don't sell. Pic related.
DC fricked Jessica because EVS is her co-creator. And no I’m not a “le gator” I’ve called them soda slugging homosexuals for years. But that’s just obviously why they hate her.
Nah, Jess sold, but the entire Fallout of 5G, Johns getting phased out as the Lanterns, All of the Obvious internal Sabotage to put him out as Didio.
And the 2 people getting mentioned here wo are still salty over their pet project dying hard, contributed to this shitshow we see now.
The only reason of why we had Dark Crisis, was to fix Tom King's Character assassination's of Wally West and the JSA Cast back as Johns Asked Snyder to do so before he fricked off alongside DiDio.
EVS was never the reason for her, DC alone became a shitshow post New 52 due to Lee and Nelson.
And now, all of this shitty new DC Future whom we have a batallion of shills shitting even on Beyond, is their interns coming here every tuesday when Cinemaphile shits hard on WW and all of the shitty comics released that day.
They are desperate to pull that ESG Garbage as the new future of DC, and shitting hard even on the LoSH.
>Jess could do fine if given a solo by an actual writer.
That could be said about any character, but the truth is that female heroes just don't sell. Pic related.
Carol Danvers post Captain Marvel shit is and will always be always a garbage person, and she always sucked solo, because Marvel never learned that People wants Mar-Vell, not her, and the funniest thing of all is that They cucked her twice with Kamala Selling better than her and being more memorable.
And that PIC alone is the proof of it.
Does DC even have good black characters?
They have, but the people who used to write, died the moment he learned of Bendis murdering Ultimate Peter to introduce fricking Miles because of a obvious internet pysop to put the community homie as spider man.
NTA, but that alone sold better than the post kung flu garbage DC shat. And to nobody's surprise at all, they are murdering Jess character again on the new GL run while making Hal look weak as Rayner, and have Carol and her Star Sapphire corps to save the day, because she still loves Hal.
Can I have your attention, please? Thank you... I'm tired of Carrol and Hal's romance.
See the potpourri thread posted above.
We are back to that, but with Carol Corps 2.0 due to the new Event later this year.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
See:
Bro a humphries comic saddled with Simon isn’t indicative of sales. Jess could do fine if given a solo by an actual writer.
He took the form of a white man though most of his career. Even in the JL show he was white despite having a black VA. I do agree that he can conveniently fill any diversity quota on account of being a shape shifter.
Static could be good and was good for a long time, just needs the right writer. I know he just had a series but I never heard of the writer and nobody talked about the comic so it died.
>ywn go back to Green Lantern being a Batfamily tier line with a thousand different titles
We had a fricking Red Lanterns ongoing at one point for frick’s sake. Nowadays we can’t even get a GREEN Lantern Corps title. We had it so good and we didn’t know.
The problem is they still refuse to use any characters or concepts Johns created for some reason. They sharply reduced the scope of the book even though the expansion of its scope was why it took off. It's like if after Moore left Swamp Thing they took away all his new powers and just made him a resilient green dude again
Because DC's higher ups aka Lee and Nelson HATES him, and sidelined him into the Movie and TV department.
Unironically, Johns and HEAT had even the colossal Balls to restore even the bridge with Marvel for Another Crossover.
I am tired of this shit, and i hope now that the big 2 burn in their own hubris.
Hal being a jackass is his appeal. Same as Guy. Kyle being an emo b***h is his thing. Writers making John into le rational man because they’re too afraid to make a black character with flaws is exactly why he’s so boring and his shit gets cancelled. People would rather watch Hal be a loser b***h living in a trailer and being a creeper to Carol than watch paint dry with John.
Which is the problem with John in first place, he is supposed to be Hotheaded due to the tragedy in his life and he trying to deal with the trauma of losing his wife to fricking Carol, But nope.
DC Sterilized him thanks to JLU
Johns created the majority of the current GL lore, he created the colour spectrum beyond just green lanterns, yellow lanterns, red, whatever, created by Johns.
To be clear I regard the retcon that Parallax is actually a space wienerroach that mind controlled Hal, thus absolving him of all his murders, to be Hal Wank.
Nah, Rebirth doesn't clear Hal of what he did, it just gives a reason for why Hal was so quick to commit murder and why the greatest Green Lantern of all time had his will corroded in the first place.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Making an excuse for why "the greatest Green Lantern of all time" went bad isn't Hal wank.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Correcting character assassination isn’t wank
If Bruce Wayne snapped and murdered Robin and became the new Joker you’d rightly call it moronic, and wouldnt call the writer who corrected that shit performing “Batwank”
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>and wouldnt call the writer who corrected that shit performing “Batwank”
I actually might. I'm kinda burnt out on Batman because of the sheer amount of Batwank that DC does. I mean shit he's the name of the company so I get why but I'm still sick of him.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's called fixing the mistake of Batcuck and Supergay editors inflicted on Green Lantern comics for a decade. Say thank to Peter Tomasi for doing it.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Funny how all of this makes Clint Barton already look superior to Ollie.
GA was always a butthole prick
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'll never understand why they push him so hard as Hal's best friend.
How is the Parallax retcon worse than Magneto not actually be responsible for putting New York citizens in ovens at the end of Morrison's X-Men run, Cass being brainwashed by Deathstroke was why she became evil, and all the retcons that were done to absolve Wally from what he did during Heroes in Crisis? All of those are celebrated but people complain about the Parallax retcon still.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Magneto being guilty or not or being worth redemption or not is one of the most divisive topics in capeshit.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Bro, the vast majority of X-gays and every X-Men writer from the past 20 years sucks off Mags. The major complaint about Morrison's run is that Magneto was regressed into a mustache twirling villain.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not really, people making memes and jokes about Magneto redemption and many crimes is really common, he's seen as just like Catra from She ra.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
so they say Magneto's entire motivation is he wants to frick Charles?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why did Wally get fricked so hard? Is Barry really that beloved?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Didio saw what Geoff did with Hal and ordered him to do the same for Barry. DiDio was an idiot.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Basically
Didio saw what Geoff did with Hal and ordered him to do the same for Barry. DiDio was an idiot.
already answered, but to add a bit more context...
Right or wrong there was a growing chorus of fans demanding Hal's return to GL. Kyle had a good run but had become stagnant, plus the GL titles had always revolved around a big cast of heroes sharing the moniker... so the idea to bring back Hal opened the doors for John, Guy and the Corps to become more prominent with no real detriment to Kyle. Plus, the a lot of fans had never forgiven the fall from grace that DC brought upon Hal. The attempts to alleviate the hurt feelings with his run as Spectre and his heroic sacrifice in Final Night didn't work. Personally, I think those fans were babies... who doesn't love a good fall from grace?
Regardless, it was a massive sales success, so Didio being a 6-year old child thought to himself "more more more."
Wally was a totally different story from Kyle though. His mentor had sacrificed himself heroically in the climax of one of the biggest storylines in DC history, it was noble and beautifully tragic. Barry fans were upset but eager to see how young Wally would follow in Barry's footsteps... and that was the story of Wally for the first decade. How can you live up to one of the biggest heroes of his era, how can you honor the legacy of your family? Wally's growth from grumpy teen, to unsure young man, to bona-fide hero was excellent. When he surpassed his mentor and stood atop the peak of legend the fans embraced it. Wally was The Flash for decades, and was the only Flash for most fans. Nobody wanted Barry back, his death was more heroic and memorable than any of his Silver Age exploits could ever be. He was also... let's call it "stoic" and not "boring," so there was very little to work with. The solution was to bury Wally and just transpose his personality on Barry. It was a gross perversion of the original "man inherits legacy" story, where the mentor robs his mantle from the hero that earned it. It wasn't what Barry wanted.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
> The attempts to alleviate the hurt feelings with his run as Spectre and his heroic sacrifice in Final Night didn't work. Personally, I think those fans were babies... who doesn't love a good fall from grace?
Because the Spectre run never addressed how Hal was so fricking reader to murder, it just continued to rub in salt on the wound.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
What was so confusing about it... Hal had a mental breakdown.
Hal watched his hometown, every person he ever knew and the people he protected vaporized in a completely pointless act of violence. While in the depths of despair he used his powers to create a brief vision of his home and his people just to see the last apologize to their rapidly fading light. He was then cruelly and coldly punished for this act of selfishness. It broke him, as it would break anyone. He saw a way to bring back all the lives lost and was denied, so he took a life and then another and then another. It was tragic, it was cruel... but it wasn't confusing. It wasn't poorly written, if anything it was more realistic than anyone wanted to admit. Anyone that has suffered a sudden loss has been guilty of wishing it wasn't so. What happens when the man making that wish has the power to actually see the wish granted?
Hal's fall defined the limitations of man, the desperation of guilt, and the resignation of altruism. The fact that some fans just didn't want to read it only proves how effective it was.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>What was so confusing about it... Hal had a mental breakdown.
Except it pan out that way. Hal doesn’t have a break down, he stops thinks and comes to the conclusion that taking power is going to solve everything, that killing everyone in his path is going to fix it. ET didn’t paint him as a tragic hero, it made into a crazy person. It’s only after Rebirth and Last Will and Testament that we can say Emerald Twilight was good because as it stands on its own it’s a cheap stunt pulled by people like Denny O’Neil who never understood the character.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Hal doesn’t have a break down, >it made into a crazy person
So which is it?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Don't you understand, Hal going full Rambo on the Corps is actually good character writing!
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Again, it's you that is confused. I never said Hal was justified in any way. My point was that his fall from grace was tragic and believable in a narrative sense. A man sacrificing everything to redeem a perceived wrong, losing themselves and their principles in the act, is not only credible it's common in history.
He THOUGHT he was acting as a hero... we, the audience, know that he had crossed the line. That's the tragedy.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>A man sacrificing everything to redeem a perceived wrong, losing themselves and their principles in the act, is not only credible it's common in history.
It was the comic equivalent of a carrying out a workplace shooting because he thought was wronged by his employers. It was a character assassination.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Seven fricking million people died in Coast City.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Kilowog's entire species got genocided but you didn't see him carrying out Emerald Twilight.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yes, anon because people deal with trauma in different ways.
Hal reacting poorly to the death of his loved ones is not character assassination, that would imply that the character was written in a way that made no logical sense. Unfortunately, a hero having a breakdown in the face of overwhelming tragedy and, in turn, commiting an atrocity in a desperate attempt to repair the situation is not a leap in logic. It's a simple tragedy.
What you're arguing for is a narrative dead-end, an unceasing adherence to the status quo. A man is fallible, a hero can become a villain... all you need is a reason.
If Superman woke up one day and said "I'm going to kill all Daxomites," it would be character assassination... but if villains started genociding all human life and Superman made the fateful decision to kill them it's a tragedy.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's silly how you're trying to play up Emerald Twilight as this deeper story but the truth is that it was literally cooked up by editors because Green Lantern was losing money and in their incompetence decided that the reason for it was that Hal was too old and uncool and that the Green Lantern Corps needed to go despite the fact that people actually liked their premise of the Corps. Emerald Twilight doesn't become good until Rebirth is there to fix it. The destruction of Coast City was the editors sweeping away forty years of history without care and Hal going crazy was a solution to a problem they created.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Never said it was deep.
Never said the motivations for the story were altruistic or artistic.
Never said the rebranding/new direction was effective.
The only thing I argued was that it wasn't character assassination because it made sense narritively. That's it.
You keep crying because you didn't like the story, which is fine. Go on and dislike the story, but when you state that it's character assassination, you're just plain wrong. When you misconstrue my arguments and put words in my mouth so that you can easily dispute them you're wrong.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The only thing I argued was that it wasn't character assassination because it made sense narritively. That's it.
But it was a character assassination. In the course of three issues, Hal jumps from sadness to a maniacal murderer no different than his rival Sinestro with no real build-up. Coast City blows up and Hal decides he's a bad guy now. It's Heroes in Crisis levels of bad without Rebirth.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>maniacal murderer
He believed he was on the cusp of realizing the power needed to resurrect millions of innocent lives, all he had to do was kill one friend. He begged Kilowog to step aside, he bargained with him, he pleaded with him. Even Kilowog acknowledged that everything up to that moment (even the murder of Sinestro) was forgivable, Hal was still redeemable.
... you make it sound like he was some galactic Carnage hoping from planet to planet butchering women and children. Is it really so preposterous to you that a hero would chose the murder of one friend to save the loves of millions?
Yes, he was misguided but it wasn't character assassination. Their was a reason, there was a progression of bad choices, there was a final line crossed reluctantly. If you didn't like the story just say so, stop pretending like it was illogical.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Even Kilowog acknowledged that everything up to that moment (even the murder of Sinestro) was forgivable, Hal was still redeemable.
Kilowog didn't see the beatdown that Hal dealt to the GLC. >... you make it sound like he was some galactic Carnage hoping from planet to planet butchering women and children.
I mean, that's how they implemented him during Zero Hour. The character of Parallax is very flip-flop depending on what was happening.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Kilowog explicitly acknowledged the beatdown that the GLC members received. He also watched Hal kill Sinestro... and STILL said he was redeemable.
>Zero Hour
We weren't talking about Zero Hour. We were talking about Emerald Twilight. I won't argue that the character wasn't assassinated to some degree by Zero Hour, but everything he did in ET was believable for a character experiencing a trauma.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>but everything he did in ET was believable for a character experiencing a trauma.
But it wasn't tho. People experience trauma in many ways, but those who carry out violence because of said trauma are a danger to themselves and others. Also, you have to take into account that Emerald Twilight had occurred several issues after Coast City got nuked. By that point, Mongol was in custody and Hal more or less realized he could do nothing about it. Then with ET Hal has his sudden breakdown and decides that anyone is his way to power is fair game. It just doesn't add up.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>People experience trauma in many ways, but those who carry out violence because of said trauma are a danger to themselves and others.
Yes, that's true... and the comic explicitly states that Hal needed to chose to let go of the pain or he could be led down a dark path. The comic agrees with you and you still seem to be suggesting that it's illogical.
>Also, you have to take into account that Emerald Twilight had occurred several issues after Coast City got nuked. By that point, Mongol was in custody and Hal more or less realized he could do nothing about it.
Poor planning on DC editorial resulted in a filler issue that had nothing to do with anything. In continuity ET opens with Coast City still smoldering.
Also, by Mongol being removed there was nobody for Hal to take out his aggression on. He was robbed of justice... doesn't that lend more credibility to his breakdown? He was left completely impotent in the destruction of his home town, the death of millions and he couldn't even punch the bad guy.
>Then with ET Hal has his sudden breakdown and decides that anyone is his way to power is fair game.
The guardians interrupt his therapy session and chastise him for being selfish in seeking catharsis. They sneer at him when he is literally kneeling in the crater of his home, holding the tattered remains of some child's doll. There's nothing sudden about it, he's grieving and getting poked and prodded... his pain just bubbled to the surface. >It just doesn't add up.
It does though.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>he comic agrees with you and you still seem to be suggesting that it's illogical.
The comic of in itself is illogical. >Also, by Mongol being removed there was nobody for Hal to take out his aggression on. He was robbed of justice... doesn't that lend more credibility to his breakdown?
No, because he took down Mongol and the Cyborg had yet to return. >The guardians interrupt his therapy session and chastise him for being selfish in seeking catharsis. They sneer at him when he is literally kneeling in the crater of his home, holding the tattered remains of some child's doll.
The guardians chastise him because he's using his ring for personal gain. He knows that Coast City is gone and then decides that the very reason why Sinestro got the boot in the first place is worth fighting for. They practically made him the thing he hated most, effectively assassinating his character.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm going to assume you're either a troll or on some spectrum where human emotions are confounding to you.
There's no other explanation for why you would read a comic that opens with the hero, broken and battered, kneeling in a mass grave for millions ...and call it illogical for the hero to have a breakdown.
Again, just because you don't like seeing your favorite hero fall from grace doesn't make it illogical.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I'm going to assume you're either a troll or on some spectrum where human emotions are confounding to you.
Says the moron trying to find a deeper meaning in Emerald Twilight alone. I already made myself clear in
[...]
Also, I have to add that I don't even hate Emerald Twilight, the premise is actually ten times more interesting than Death of Superman or Knightfall, but the execution is rushed. With Rebirth, Emerald Twilight becomes ten times better than DOS or Knightfall because its explanation of why Hal let Parallax happen in the first place makes so much sense and gives greater meaning to the last thirty years of Green Lantern.
. It's a poorly paced-and flawed event. Ron Marz knows this, Peter Tomasi knows this, Geoff Johns knows this, and the readers know this which is why the sales failed until Rebirth.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Now you're just repeating yourself. You already accused me of searching for deeper meaning and I pointed out in
Never said it was deep.
Never said the motivations for the story were altruistic or artistic.
Never said the rebranding/new direction was effective.
The only thing I argued was that it wasn't character assassination because it made sense narritively. That's it.
You keep crying because you didn't like the story, which is fine. Go on and dislike the story, but when you state that it's character assassination, you're just plain wrong. When you misconstrue my arguments and put words in my mouth so that you can easily dispute them you're wrong.
that I've never once said it was deep. It's not deep at all, which is why I find it so odd that you can't grasp its simplicity.
You keep shifting to an argument based on the rushed nature of the event. Again, I've never once said otherwise.
You bring up Zero Hour. I've never argued in favor of Zero Hour.
You say the comic tried to justify Hal's actions. When confronted with panels explicitly condemning his actions. You go back to saying it's illogical for somebody dealing with stress to lash out in anger... which just seems to reveal a weakness in your grasp of human emotions.
You keep changing your argument, it's very disingenuous. Which is why I now believe you are nothing more than a troll. Well played, this is my last (you)
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Good, now we can stop hearing your moronic arguments for Emerald Twilight.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
is she smoking weed?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
She's a ring-manifestation of Hal's desperate search for salvation, the swirling bits of smoke around her are the ashes of the former residents of Coast City.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
So why didn't Parallax go do that? He had the power to rebuild Coast City, rewind time and stop Mongul, or rewrite reality to bring it back. But all he did for about 4 years was frick around in space and occasionally pick on Henshaw some.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
No idea. I was only saying that the events that took place during Emerald Twilight were a plausible path for Hal to take. Emerald Twilight was not character assassination, it was just a story that some people don't want to accept so they dismiss it as illogical.
The events that happened after the storyline were pretty shit. The best argument I've seen is that Hal's consciousness expanded with his newfound power and that he needed time to adapt. Zero Hour was Hal's new plan, why resurrect just one city when you can resurrect every innocent life lost? I don't necessarily buy it but it's better than what we were given.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The only thing I argued was that it wasn't character assassination because it made sense narritively. That's it.
But it was a character assassination. In the course of three issues, Hal jumps from sadness to a maniacal murderer no different than his rival Sinestro with no real build-up. Coast City blows up and Hal decides he's a bad guy now. It's Heroes in Crisis levels of bad without Rebirth.
Also, I have to add that I don't even hate Emerald Twilight, the premise is actually ten times more interesting than Death of Superman or Knightfall, but the execution is rushed. With Rebirth, Emerald Twilight becomes ten times better than DOS or Knightfall because its explanation of why Hal let Parallax happen in the first place makes so much sense and gives greater meaning to the last thirty years of Green Lantern.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Johns got the reputation of the guy who can modernize a failing book and make villains likable, etc. He was stuck on Hawkman, Flash, and Titans for a while in hopes of upgrading those titles into something.
Everything that makes up the space part of GL was invented by Johns. He took what was a franchise that no one had ever really bothered putting in work to invent a backstory before and made a huge amount of history of the GLC and the Guardians. All the GL villains were still leftover silver age mustache twirling losers before Johns remade them into modern characters.
He built up a near dead franchise that nobody ever tried making anything out of except monthly adventures and turned it into DC's #3 book. But his inclusions were
>Yellow Lantern corps >Brought back the Anti Monitor >Rest of the color spectrum corps >Larfleeze >Atrocitus and tied him to the Empire of Tears >Made Guy into more than a joke or loser character >Black Hand, turned him into a major villain and tied it to 80s era mostly forgotten lore >Nekron >Made Hawkman and Hawkgirl into primordial symbols of love in the universe >Made Earth the lynch pin of all life in the universe
>Made Guy into more than a joke or loser character
This is an underrated but essential contribution that nobody thinks to credit him for, because he was so successful at wiping everyone’s minds of the fricking dogshit that was Guy in the years before Rebirth.
>Did Johns introduce anything that isn't ultimately Hal wank?
The Johns and Tomasi's GLC runs basically took the premise of the Green Lanterns and took it to the next level with pure refinement. As far back as the early 80s the premise of the Corps was a gold mine that was being wasted on the typical monster of the week shit and forgettable antagonists. The late 80s era of Green Lantern was fricking wild and spinning out of control because of how little of a shit the editors gave about it.
But Kylegays tell me that Green Lantern was much better when he was ruining other female heroes, abandoned Earth when his gay friend got beat up, and was fighting the much superior foes, Effigy and Grayven!
Everything that makes up the space part of GL was invented by Johns. He took what was a franchise that no one had ever really bothered putting in work to invent a backstory before and made a huge amount of history of the GLC and the Guardians. All the GL villains were still leftover silver age mustache twirling losers before Johns remade them into modern characters.
He built up a near dead franchise that nobody ever tried making anything out of except monthly adventures and turned it into DC's #3 book. But his inclusions were
>Yellow Lantern corps >Brought back the Anti Monitor >Rest of the color spectrum corps >Larfleeze >Atrocitus and tied him to the Empire of Tears >Made Guy into more than a joke or loser character >Black Hand, turned him into a major villain and tied it to 80s era mostly forgotten lore >Nekron >Made Hawkman and Hawkgirl into primordial symbols of love in the universe >Made Earth the lynch pin of all life in the universe
>Made Guy into more than a joke or loser character
This is an underrated but essential contribution that nobody thinks to credit him for, because he was so successful at wiping everyone’s minds of the fricking dogshit that was Guy in the years before Rebirth.
>He took what was a franchise that no one had ever really bothered putting in work to invent a backstory before
You absolute fricking moronic Black person. Why are Johnsgays like this? They do the same thing with Hawkman, the JSA, Legion, Aquaman- they didn't "really" exist until ol' Geoff got a hold of them. Frick off
Nah, in the case of Green Lantern it was absolutely true. It was in the fricking dumps until Geoff picked it up and dusted it off.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
It was in a lull for a few years in the late 90s/early 2000s. That doesn't mean Johns singlehandedly invented Green Lantern mythology. You would know that if you read literally any Green Lantern comic ever from the 70s through the early 90s. Hell Emerald Dawn I & II still mogs Secret Origin to this day
Thing is, no writer cared to do a single damn thing with the franchise at all until Johns. Everyone was fine with monster of the week, or make Green Lantern frick around on Earth and stop street level guys. No one cared about the corps or space stuff in 40 years.
This literally isn't fricking true. How in the hell are you kids so moronic? Have you read any comic books ever prior to 2003?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You would know that if you read literally any Green Lantern comic ever from the 70s through the early 90s.
The 70s era of Green Lantern was absolute ass dude.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Hell Emerald Dawn I & II still mogs Secret Origin to this day
Only Dawn ll, the robot from Dawn l looked ridiculous and was a reminder of how the yellow weakness was absolutely dumb.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Emerald Dawn was kind of annoying in how it pointed out that all anyone ever had to do was build a big robot and paint it yellow. It would then be able to murder the entire GLC without trouble,
it's like >Okay, you can't shoot it with a green laser, but maybe could you shoot meteors or a planet at it instead? >Could you scoop up some sun plasma and eject it at the robot? >Can you open a wormhole and shoot it to another dimension or something? >Can you do literally anything but shoot at it with green lasers or punch it with a green boxing glove??!?!
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Just because the ring's power couldn't affect the robot, doesn't mean they'd be unable to stop it. The GLs could just pick up boulders and throw it at the thing. Things like that.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Goldface taught people that like 20 years earlier.
>Did Johns introduce anything that isn't ultimately Hal wank?
The Johns and Tomasi's GLC runs basically took the premise of the Green Lanterns and took it to the next level with pure refinement. As far back as the early 80s the premise of the Corps was a gold mine that was being wasted on the typical monster of the week shit and forgettable antagonists. The late 80s era of Green Lantern was fricking wild and spinning out of control because of how little of a shit the editors gave about it.
Thing is, no writer cared to do a single damn thing with the franchise at all until Johns. Everyone was fine with monster of the week, or make Green Lantern frick around on Earth and stop street level guys. No one cared about the corps or space stuff in 40 years.
You can tell the editors are clueless about the balances and scales of the Green Lantern Corps. Hal gets the main run, but the rest of the team gets the Green Lantern Corps. Now that DC is financially in the shits thanks to WB being incompetent, the scope is smaller than ever. By giving John a run and not to the GLC, the rest of them get delegated to side characters in Hal's main run. They had this shit figured 14 years ago.
I like the new Hal cuck arc tbh which i never thought could be done well after Spider-Man. Hopefully it causes Hal to move on and get a space gf.
Nah, they already teased Carol and him being together again, because of the new yearly event, since she will bring her corps back now that all batteries outside hers were destroyed by the Non-sinestro minister.
It's always the same shit >Big 2 release book made for LGBT/non-white audience >LGBT/non-white audience do not buy comic, only pirate it instead because boycotts or whatever >Big 2 get the message that these books don't sell, but books for white audience do >Naturally they pump out more of those >LGBT/non-white audience cry because they don't make books for them
Rinse and repeat
He gave Superman a brand new set of twins and exiled gayjon out of the Superfamily to be a titanshitter. Based in my eyes. Let the gays have their character and let him die.
>He gave Superman a brand new set of twins and exiled gayjon out of the Superfamily to be a titanshitter.
Because he knew they fricked up. Nobody like the replacement Jons.
Why don’t they try pushing black characters who don’t have the same code names as white characters? This would help them to stand out. It shouldn’t be too hard to get decent sales for a book starting Black Lightning, Static, or Steel.
they recently made a Steel limited series actually. i thought it was pretty decent.
i didn't need the second issue to punch me in the gut with a 'casualty report' end card that stated Tracy Corben (Metallo's sister, stuck in a cyborg body with no sense of touch/taste/smell, quite distressed by it) is still locked in the basement of Steelworks Tower "under surveillance" and has tried to kill herself at least 3 times, but that's not relevant to the plot.
I'm going to be honest with you guys; I fricking hate this run. I was fooled into thinking Jeremy Adams was going to be a good writer because of his time on the GL cartoon. I hate the premise of the United Planets, I hate how Sinestro is back to being a whiplash villain, I hate how they're trying to make Hal a turbo israelite, I hate how fricking slow this run is. I hate it.
I loved the Hal on earth stuff. Good back to basics adventures and interesting drama with Carol and Hal’s poorhomosexualry. The UP setup stuff is slow but itll probably read better in trades. The release schedule is the worst culprit tbh, we get one fricking issue a month and have to put up with Jo as a co lead in the book now. We only get to see Hal once a month and the entire book isn’t dedicated to him, it’s moronic.
War Journal is just flat out better than the main run, and part of the reason is it's off in its own little bubble unmarred by all the characters in regular GL being insufferable.
Hal's a prick, Carol's a prick, the whole corps is now pricks, and the only characters i've kind of enjoyed have been Kilowog who's actually just Hal's light construct and the random Czarian man that Guy Gardner thought was Lobo
>War Journal is just flat out better than the main run, and part of the reason is it's off in its own little bubble unmarred by all the characters in regular GL being insufferable.
War Journal is carried by the art, John is a boring ass character.
Honestly I think character writing wise his mom and creepy light construct Ellie are carrying my interest more than he is. Still better than regular GL, though.
Hal being a jackass is his appeal. Same as Guy. Kyle being an emo b***h is his thing. Writers making John into le rational man because they’re too afraid to make a black character with flaws is exactly why he’s so boring and his shit gets cancelled. People would rather watch Hal be a loser b***h living in a trailer and being a creeper to Carol than watch paint dry with John.
Honestly I think character writing wise his mom and creepy light construct Ellie are carrying my interest more than he is. Still better than regular GL, though.
This, War Journal is doing better than the main run because it's not being hindered by the dumbass events.
War Journal is just flat out better than the main run, and part of the reason is it's off in its own little bubble unmarred by all the characters in regular GL being insufferable.
Hal's a prick, Carol's a prick, the whole corps is now pricks, and the only characters i've kind of enjoyed have been Kilowog who's actually just Hal's light construct and the random Czarian man that Guy Gardner thought was Lobo
Honestly I think character writing wise his mom and creepy light construct Ellie are carrying my interest more than he is. Still better than regular GL, though.
>anon says the good things about the character writing in GL:WJ consist entirely of a weird not-ghost child and an old black lady with dementia >"must be a shill"
I cannot stand how fricking SSSLLLOOOOWWWWWWWW this book is. The damn book made it slightly over a year before Hal finally got a ring and flew off earth. What the frick?
Black Panther doesn’t like non african blacks, his movie is literally about that. Sad to see ameriblacks claim him when he probably hates them more than the average racist american white
Wakandans hate anyone who’s not wakandan. Tl them every non wakandan is the same level of shit, only in different colors. His movie was about wanting to remain isolated from the entire world, not specifically about him hating blacks.
Black Panther being a nice friendly helpful guy is mostly a MCU creation. Further pushed into ridiculous levels by Disney+ shit by having him do insane things like be the perfect space character that nicely asks Thanos to stop killing everyone.
While comic Black Panther was always a dismissive, brooding butthole that gave no fricks about anyone's opinions or international laws, and was basically exactly like post 90s Batman. The silent, dickish guy that wanders off mid conversation because he does not care what other people are saying, always makes contingency plans for everyone including other heroes, has no problems attacking other heroes for getting in his way, etc.
That Avengers Cartoon... secret spin off/au/whatever it was- Black Panther Quest is kind of the closest they've come to making T'Challa at least somewhat like his more insular, standoffish comic persona. His running flaw throughout the episodes is an inability to loop people in on what's going on, wanting to keep it to Wakanda only, and ends up causing pointless conflict with the other heroes. Worse, it leads to him getting played by Zemo because he trusts his tragic backstory over his own family and friends' motivations.
It was still a kids cartoon to be clear, but it was also obviously trying to have Black Panther have some sort of character conflict that was largely just him being unjustifiably secretive and untrusting.
Wakanda in general doesn't like non-Wakandan blacks. There's even a comic where Africans are literally starving to death outside of Wakanda's walls and the only attention the guards pay them is telling them to frick off and starve somewhere else.
If those were going to Wakanda for food, it was already not a good Black Panther comic.
first, political themes =/= ideological pandering. it's not "keep muh politics away", it's a "make a good story regardless of its politics"
second, Civil War 1 was a confused mess that had no overarching plan or message the writers of different works agreed on before they started, and both it and Identity Crisis sacrificed previous characterization in support of their subtext (to the detriment of their stories going forward) - but neither was really pandering to an ideology, either. Civil War didn't even decide what it was trying to say until nearly the end.
not good examples of what i'm talking about (either good or bad), really. more like just "generically bad to meh comics" for reasons completely outside this discussion.
Were you reading at the time? Civil War was part of Marvel's hysteria dealing with bush's bullshit. There was a lot of political commentary going on.
>both it and Identity Crisis sacrificed previous characterization in support of their subtext
Prrrrretty much what happens most of the time in stories with ideological pandering these days.
By the way, Potpouri storytime has finished covering GL Carol's love for Hal is going to save everyone from another Blackest Night incident caused by a homosexual from Korugar wanting to be sinestro
>John Stewart?
Finished. >Static?
Nobody wants to deal with the legal work behind Milestone comics. >Steel?
His run just finished and didn't do so hot. >Vixen?
Sadly an ensemble character. >Some other Milestone character?
See Static. >Cyborg?
Ensemble character. >Black Lightning?
homie who? >Mr. Terrific?
Ensemble character now but actually pretty cool.
Mr Terrific doesn't need a solo since he works better with the League and the JSA.
Static is a NOPE since his comic has been a rollercoaster due to The Blight that is the BLM shit instead of McDuffie's original vision
Vixen needs Black Label and full Sex
Milestone is on the same pit as Static.
Cyborg works better with the Titans and Jess
Black Lightning is more of a JSA than JLA either
Steel will never shine as his 90's Run because DC's higher ups HATES Superman, since their New 2 project where he was a super autistic Ryu died off.
>John Stewart?
Finished. >Static?
Nobody wants to deal with the legal work behind Milestone comics. >Steel?
His run just finished and didn't do so hot. >Vixen?
Sadly an ensemble character. >Some other Milestone character?
See Static. >Cyborg?
Ensemble character. >Black Lightning?
homie who? >Mr. Terrific?
Ensemble character now but actually pretty cool.
Exactly
Crossover? What was the pitch?
As everyone rumored of what Doomsday Clock was, Bring the JSA back and have the trigger to make a new JLA-Avengers Crossover if legal talk for both sides was finally done.
>Mr Terrific doesn't need a solo since he works better with the League and the JSA.
What does Mr. Terrific have to do with the League you moron casual cartoongay?
Give him another solo series but make it good this time. Bring back his alt earth dead wife, sasha bordeaux and his checkmate connections, the pulpy sci-fi of the terrifics
It would have been written by Cates, Snyder, tynion and or ewing or something. So obviously it would have been absolutely atrocious. God help us if king or Hickman were involved.
Knowing Johns, he would make Steve part of the JSA as Namor, and Steve Rogers being Steve Trevor's Cousin per Mother side.
So Trevor's motivation is that he wants to Honor Captain America, also Hippolyta and Diana knowing Rogers and how good he is.
If Ewing is in it, he would pull out even the original TT X-Men Crossover with Darkseid taunting Jean
If Hickman is also involved he would finally Write the Lanterns and Nova corps cosmic stuff he wanted to do with Johns With the Nova corps being in fact remnants of the original Gold Lantern corps off the Xandarians who escaped DC to Marvel
>JLA/Avengers 2 by Keith Giffen, J.M. DeMatties & Al Ewing >AKA the only guys we trust to try and NOT frick up.
Knowing Johns, he would make Steve part of the JSA as Namor, and Steve Rogers being Steve Trevor's Cousin per Mother side.
So Trevor's motivation is that he wants to Honor Captain America, also Hippolyta and Diana knowing Rogers and how good he is.
If Ewing is in it, he would pull out even the original TT X-Men Crossover with Darkseid taunting Jean
If Hickman is also involved he would finally Write the Lanterns and Nova corps cosmic stuff he wanted to do with Johns With the Nova corps being in fact remnants of the original Gold Lantern corps off the Xandarians who escaped DC to Marvel
Black Lightning, Static, and Steel. All have had successful solos in the past and could now.
I see potential in Mr. Terrific and Vixen, but I think you’d need to put a really great team on solos featuring them if you wanted a hit. Or you could have them written well in an ensemble and build up some interest there. Maybe both approaches combined.
John Stewart and Cyborg don’t work well with solos, they need other characters around them to bring out their character.
>Reddit Spacing
All 3 you mentioned right now got shitty solos recently, with steel being more or less.
Mr Terrific works better with a cast and dealing with F4 levels of shit
Vixen works Better as Black Label as Constantine. And yes she needs sex on the same level as that OVA movie
I spaced to indicate each grouping I put the characters in: Those who could have solos now, those who could have solos with some work and if certain conditions are met, and those I don’t think could have working solos.
As for Vixen, I see her more as a recurring character in Animal Man. I think she showed up there a few times in the Morrison run. That’s where I’d build the interest before spinning her off, much like Constantine spun off from Swamp Thing.
I would read a Cyborg comic but it has to be handled like he was in the Snyder movies. He messed a lot of things up but it's by far the most interesting interpretation of Victor.
Bumblebee >everybody knows her thanks to teen titans, teen titans go and DC superhero girls >good design >She is supposed to be an Ant Man and Iron Man mix with Wasp suit so you can easily just copy those 2 >DC only big female hero with constant ongoings is about superstrenght and magic so they are not going to outshine each other
I would divorce her from her husband though, the guy is useless, plus it's already canon that when she lost her memories she really liked to be around Dick Grayson rather than him so why not give him a clickbait romance with him.
I never saw a single thread about Mal Duncan in this board, he's never mentioned, Bee get a thread per week and Duncan is never mentioned there as well and she is often shipped with Dick Grayson.
They even retired Duncan as a superhero for no reason at all and no one cared. What is even the point of keeping her stuck with a character no one give a frick?
>Bee get a thread per week and Duncan is never mentioned there as well and she is often shipped with Dick Grayson
Bumblebee 3 most popular ships are probably Nightwing, Hawkman and Zatanna now
>I never saw a single thread about Mal Duncan in this board, he's never mentioned
There's a world outside Cinemaphile anon, get out of this bubble once in a while. >Bee get a thread per week
The only version of Bumblebee that gets a thread is the DCSHG one because she's a shy cute girl that Cinemaphile lusts over, no one here actually cares about canon Karen >she is often shipped with Dick Grayson.
Where and by who? WMBF fetishists? It's definitely not as popular as you're making it out to be, definitely not enough to break her up with the character that's been her love interest since her creation. >What is even the point of keeping her stuck with a character no one give a frick?
If you think no one gives a frick about one of the few DC couples that actually got married and had a kid, then you probably need a bigger sample size.
I'm not gonna pretend like I'm Mal's #1 or something, but DC would absolutely get a frick ton of backlash for breaking up a black couple that had a kid, SPECIALLY if they suddenly decided to ship Karen with Dick, which would also never happen anyway since DC decided to go all in with DickBabs.
>but DC would absolutely get a frick ton of backlash for breaking up a black couple that had a kid, SPECIALLY if they suddenly decided to ship Karen with Dick,
Anon, Black Panther and Storm breaking up so Storm would go to be with Wolverine in the same very comic didn't cause any problem, do you really think Bumblebee breaking up with a literal who character that barely got a personality and can't even keep a consistent job or superhero mantle would cause any problem?
I don't think Mal is that much of a big deal to be honest, more popular characters than him are killed off every year. If anyone gave a frick they wouldn't force him to retire then bring him back just to drastically change his superhero costume and name just to retire him again.
I can't think of a better example of a character no one knows what to do with nor a better example of a "fandom" giving zero fricks.
I think they were already testing the waters for a tighter focus on Bumblebee with the World's Finest: Teen Titans miniseries, since she appeared as a back-up character there. She also got a story in the annual of the main series. Thing is, this happens every time DC has tried to revive interest in the "classic" Titans roster over the past 20 or so years. Her and blue boy always show up but thats largely it. She could never carry her own title, but it's still awkward to see that happen, especially whenever the company is attempting to seem diverse/progressive/etc.
It helps that she got a consistent premise, design and personality unlike Mal who often change both his character and his superhero costume and powers. Mal is not even a character at this point, he's just a name. You can't write his peronality wrong because there is none, you can give him whatever superhero uniform and any superpower you want because he got no superhero identity.
Mal really lost the plot when he got stuck with that magic horn thing. That's really unfitting for a guy who wants to keep his ghetto neighborhood safe. YJ had it right for keeping him in the Guardian mantle.
So tired of it being a problem when monitorities and women don't care about things. Just let us enjoy our comics, craft beer, and pinball machines in peace.
>made Green Lantern the best comic of the 2000s >thinks Cassandra Cain is a fricking dogshit character >did the impossible and made general audiences give a shit about Superman
How come he doesn't have Jim Lee's job?
>did the impossible and made general audiences give a shit about Superman
...What? I'm trying to figure out what you're talking about. Surely it's not his Rebirth Superman run?
>cancel the only good GL character's book >more Halshit on the menu
Frick. Hal is the most boring motherfricker in comics. What does anyone see in that motherfricker.
Who is supporting Hal? Shit, this isn't like a Spider-Man situation where John is an annoying shit like Miles in the comics but is getting slammed down everyones throats constamtly, John is genuinely a better character all around than Hal and Hal should've been shipped off ages ago.
>t. Geoffrey Thorne
have a nice day you fat slob. How much does it make you seethe that you have one of the whitest names ever? Your parents had zero self respect.
Johns made Hal into a shonen main character, as the dumb slacker that fricks around in life but wins fights against just anybody by getting pissed off and yelling really loudly.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
He’s been been that way long before Johns though… did you ever read Emerald Dawn?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
It was in a lull for a few years in the late 90s/early 2000s. That doesn't mean Johns singlehandedly invented Green Lantern mythology. You would know that if you read literally any Green Lantern comic ever from the 70s through the early 90s. Hell Emerald Dawn I & II still mogs Secret Origin to this day
[...]
This literally isn't fricking true. How in the hell are you kids so moronic? Have you read any comic books ever prior to 2003?
Green Lantern in the 90s was a total shitshow. The books were awful. It was all >Hal is depressed and feeling bad, lost his job, lost his house, issues were about how much he hated himself >Hal was an old guy now and not in tune with the rest of the hero community, was depressed he was getting older >Hal self loathes some more, some alien tells him how much he sucks, some human tells him how much he sucks >Hal is more depressed Mongul blew up his town >John is depressed he let a planet blow up >Guy is the most hated person in all JLA history, heis the butt of every joke, he only appears to be made fun of or have something fall on his head >Hal is more depressed, now he is evil >Kyle is unsure of himself, constantly mopes around doubting himself, this goes on for 7 years >The rest of the JLA talk down to him and treat him badly too >Hal is spectre, is depressed, constantly mopes around and talks about how bad of a person he is
Just god dammit, from 1990 to 99 it was GL is sad, feels bad, other heroes talk shit to them too while they feel sad. all narration is informing the reader how much of a frickup this person is.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I really hate how DC was absolutely fine with making Hal old as frick but would never do the same for Clark or Bruce. Even as far back as the 80s they had disdain for the character.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah what was going on there? Why was Hal the only hero that got older while everyone else was still 32 or so?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
It happened in the Mike Grell Green Arrow during an issue where Ollie was celebrating his 45th. Again, meeting Green Arrow is one of the worst things to happen to Hal.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Like the other anon and Kurt Busiek said it was apparently an attempt to keep Hal and Ollie's 1970s adventures canon. Except this would necessitate them pre-dating Superman. And lo and behold, in Emerald Dawn, Hal claims to be the only super-powered individual he knows of. This is lampshaded/retconned in Man of Steel Annual #4 where it reveals he was mistaken and just hadn't heard about Superman yet.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
What was so special about their little road trip that it became integral to the character?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
It exemplified comic books becoming "grown up" and gritty.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
People really thought that Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams were cooking when they brought up racism, drug abuse, and politics. Most of those people are probably fans of Denny O'Neil than they were Green Lantern.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why bother explaining it to you. You obviously don't read comics.
Frick off obvious newbie.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
You never read a single issue of the 90's GL series.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
not that anon but I liked it, it was about Hal getting his life back on track
rebuilding the corps was cool too, I liked kreon and brik a lot, and getting green lantern corps quarterly gave us more good stories about the corps
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You never read a single issue of the 90's GL series.
He's right about Gerard Jones' Hal Jordan being a whiny sad sack of shit who doesn't want the job.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
disagree, post-crisis and after they had a firing squad for sinestro that destroyed almost everyone's ring + star sapphire killing katma tui + hal being dumped by arisia and not being part of any team for a fair amount of time it was understandable hal was a little lost
I like drifter hal, I think it fits the character
I think he regained his identity a bit, even if his fight with guy to go back to earth instead of rebuilding the corps was dumb
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>t was understandable hal was a little lost
It made him look so lame. Dude didn't want his job and so they gave it to John.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
you're not wrong. the 90s were a strange period for dc
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Except he wasn't a 'sad sack' in the slightest. Hal was on the classic hero's journey, rebuilding both himself and the Green Lantern Corps.
So you just proved you didn't read a single issue. Good day, moron.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Hal was on the classic hero's journey
It was a retread of the 70s run. How many runs did we have to see Hal go through a hero's journey because of his self-doubt?
you're not wrong. the 90s were a strange period for dc
That was the mid-80s, I think '84-'86. Crazy to think that Hal was a supporting character in his own run but then again we had to put up with Geoff Thorne.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
yeah you're right, after green lantern became green lantern corps and then reverted
that was a real dark period for green lantern, with hal talking about how the ring fricked with his mind to remove all traces of fear and rushing that guy with the knife
at least the 90s had actual storytelling
I have never, and will never, read anything by geoffrey thorne
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I have the 90s Vol 3 run anon. You however have not made a single argument other than
>N-Nuh uh! You just never read anything!!!!!
without any counter examples. So you are really just stupidly trolling.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
And yet you still know frickall about the character. Not even a wiki article.
So nothing you said matters and it's all a lie.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>POOPYPOOPY! PISS AND CUM! SHIIITT!
Opinion discarded.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Go frick yourself, there's my counter example homosexual.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Take into account of who Hal was for the last thirty years prior to that to understand why people like him like that.
John always came off like the typical boring leader guy in cartoons who's only character trait is In Charge and stick in the mud. Like Leonardo, Cyclops, the one who is the boring adult who rolls their eyes when a cooler character does something fun.
>Hal: The Main Hero. wienersure yet is the standard. Heck of a pilot. >John: The Master Builder. Kinda rigid due to being USMC and an architect. But has a collection of Barbara Streisand. Go figure. >Guy: The Warrior. Can be considered as the "Dirty Harry" of the GLC. Somehow also a former teacher. Smarter than he looks. >Kyle: The Torchbearer. Kept it up when the GLs were down and almost out. Bit of a weeb(thanks to him, the rest have basic knowledge of UC Gundam). Nice guy but also contained a supernova.
>>Kyle: The Torchbearer. Kept it up when the GLs were down and almost out. Bit of a weeb(thanks to him, the rest have basic knowledge of UC Gundam). Nice guy but also contained a supernova.
Kyle used to be a party kid who slept around but his time as a Lantern helped him slow down and smell the roses.
Outrage over John existing has always felt so forced and unnatural. I grew up on the Justice League cartoon, so as far as I was concerned for many years of my childhood Green Lantern and John were indistinguishable concepts. I didn't even know Hal existed until a while later.
>Outrage over John existing has always felt so forced and unnatural.
John has always been the affirmative action character. He exists because two honky white bread motherfrickers decided they were going to play savior and save black people by creating a superhero who was black before being interest. There’s a reason why Mosaic is beloved but John’s mid-80s run is forgotten about.
>Shit Writers and Shit Artists are put in charge of comics >Their work is shit so people call it shit >Shit Writers and Shit Artists want to avoid criticism so they start using minorities as shields so they can play the racism card >The quality is still shit so people still don't buy the comics but now people are blaming minority inclusion for why the comics are shit >Corporate instead of cutting the dead weight staff are now likely do believe that too many minorities turn people off and are dancing around limiting their presence but will to make money
It really is just very funny. In cartoons and comics progress was being made and nobody and stories were being told for these people but the hacks have basically ruined everything for everyone to save their jobs.
They are a little behind the times, the film industry tried this a decade ago and it still failed over and over again.
At this point, I honestly have no idea why they keep trying it. It should be clear to all executives now that twitter likes do not equal profit, and twitter chatter does not mean it will gain decent ratings. So intentionally making a bad movie or show, sticking a female or black lead and then decrying all viewers are actually evil racist incels when it doesn't sell is not really a game winning strategy. We have seen it just plain not work too many times.
They did course correct with patient zero, Ghostbusters. After making a bad movie that had just plain terrible press because it hid behind attacking anyone and everyone that did not praise it as the greatest thing ever made less money, they started totally over again and made a different Ghostbusters sequel instead.
Problem is that we are a few years too late in that Ghostbusters is just a bad title with too much baggage attached to it after that whole 2016 mess. Coupled with movies in general doing badly.
They are a little behind the times, the film industry tried this a decade ago and it still failed over and over again.
At this point, I honestly have no idea why they keep trying it. It should be clear to all executives now that twitter likes do not equal profit, and twitter chatter does not mean it will gain decent ratings. So intentionally making a bad movie or show, sticking a female or black lead and then decrying all viewers are actually evil racist incels when it doesn't sell is not really a game winning strategy. We have seen it just plain not work too many times.
They did course correct with patient zero, Ghostbusters. After making a bad movie that had just plain terrible press because it hid behind attacking anyone and everyone that did not praise it as the greatest thing ever made less money, they started totally over again and made a different Ghostbusters sequel instead.
Problem is that we are a few years too late in that Ghostbusters is just a bad title with too much baggage attached to it after that whole 2016 mess. Coupled with movies in general doing badly.
What does this have to do with Green Lantern you stupid homosexuals? Nobody fricking cares
Imagine if Batman became a bad guy because Ares nuked Gotham City but it all happened in a spare issue of The Flash and Flash made a monument to the death out of the engine that killed all those people and Bruce went insane and killed Nightwing and Joker because they were in his way and he became a super evil Batman.
>love green lanterns as a concept >don't like them existing alongside DC properties >don't like most of the green lanterns (I like hal and jess)
what's wrong with me
I always thought the biggest issue with any GL on the JLA is that they have to pretend that they know fricking nothing about space, aliens, or anything outside of Earth, and they also have to forget they are also trained professional law enforcement that can solve crimes too.
Any alien that shows up, a GL should know all about or easily identify. Or just pull up their info in a second. They never do this.
Sure you do, it's called turning every other book into pure shit and constantly shoving Superboy Prime into everything until readers flock to the only books he was not in....yet.
not that anon but what the frick are you talking about Boy Prime ony show up in a few books and the ones where he was in sold way better than the average.
Meanwhile Thanos show up in more comics than Prime peak and they sell like dogshit because no one wants to see that purple Gary Stu vore TOAA
It's called the marketing department. Didio directed them to keep a white hot hype spotlight on everything Johns was assigned to. If it was organic growth, it would have sustained Johns leaving (along with the marketing hype). But it didn't.
The stories that followed were just as good, better even when you factor in they don't lean heavily into casualties for le gravitas or rely on past event and/or author hype, while also getting marketing hype. Johns is a mid writer at best. As soon as he lost the hype machine, he fell off, never to recover.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
This. My favorite part was Relic and the death of the universe because the lanterns kept dipping into the spectrum, very cool stuff Venditti!
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Who are you kidding, in the decade and a half since Geoff's run, Green Lantern has effectively been forgotten.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah, because no hype machine from marketing playing it all up. It was always artificial, and you're just a consooomer who buys what he's told.
>no black-led comics because they don't buy it >no unwoke Marvel/DC comics because anti-woke don't buy it, they pirate
why should Marvel/DC not pander to 1 but should pander to 2?
Your so-called "anti-woke" are just heterosexual men, and they faithfully supported comics for nearly 70+ years. They only stopped buying after being told they weren't wanted anymore, even then it took years of abuse for most to finally throw in the towel on the hobby they loved. The fans that turned to pirating are absolutely dwarfed by the fans that simply walked away from the medium entirely.
The good news is that us "anti-woke" fans don't even want to be wandered to... we just don't want to see pandering to fringe minorities in every comic. By not pandering to progressives (that were NEVER going to buy comics anyway) you also have the added benefit of being able to reach a wider audience with children, families, etc. Children don't want comics about Superman exploring his homosexuality, or bedbugs, or unsolicited opinions on Israel, or racism mascarading as black excellence. They just want to see Captain America throw his mighty shield, and for villains to yield.
IMO the problem isn't the "wokeness" or "anti-wokeness" part, because explicitly "anti-woke" productions are also shit quality - the problem is ideological pandering in general.
i don't want specifically "a story about a heterosexual white man" or "a story about a gay black woman", i just want a good fricking story.
culture war obsession is a disease that turns subtext into text for brownie points with loud but small terminally online minorities that aren't actually fans of the works (regardless of what ideology the author expresses), they're fans of the ideology. there legitimately aren't enough people like that on ANY side to sustain these businesses. most people just want to read good stories, and almost NOBODY wants author tracts.
the long history of literature leaves subtext in the subtext for a reason: ideology won't write your stories for you.
That was basically my point, albeit more eloquently presented by yourself. The vast majority of fans don't want to be pandered to, they are begging the Big Two to simply stop pandering and just tell stories again. Tales of Wonder, Tales to Astonish, Brave and Bold stories of heroes and villains. It's escapism, you can do so much with the medium...just stop alienating people. It's a dying medium, pandering only limits your audience further.
>the problem is ideological pandering in general
Yeah... remember when comics decided to do political commentary with Civil War and Identity Crisis? Shit times.
first, political themes =/= ideological pandering. it's not "keep muh politics away", it's a "make a good story regardless of its politics"
second, Civil War 1 was a confused mess that had no overarching plan or message the writers of different works agreed on before they started, and both it and Identity Crisis sacrificed previous characterization in support of their subtext (to the detriment of their stories going forward) - but neither was really pandering to an ideology, either. Civil War didn't even decide what it was trying to say until nearly the end.
not good examples of what i'm talking about (either good or bad), really. more like just "generically bad to meh comics" for reasons completely outside this discussion.
Literally all they need to do is longer and more creative fight scenes in capeshit comics and cartoons, is just that simple, that's why everything popular nowadays is mostly fight scenes, anime, warhammer40k, games etc
the ideas of liberal and progressive are sunk cost fallacy of ideology. even much of what we call conservative is just what progressives and liberals where like a few decades ago. we should have stopped a while ago.
Didn't they do this minority heroes push back in the 80s and early 90s, and it also failed hard too? DC and Marvel are going after a demographic that doesn't give two shits about their progressive message or comics in general.
This is no different than non-athlete women arguing that female sports players should make as much as the male players...then admitting they don't watch the games and failing to realize that ticket sales and ad shares are what pay professional athletes.
If you don't buy the tickets and the merch, the people involved don't get paid.
I'm curious- with so many people here saying Emerald Twilight was a mistake, who here was actually reading at the time? And how many started liking Hal after Johns?
I was reading DC when Emerald Twilight occurred, and I didn't hate it all. Hal wasn't my favorite character, I was a little kid and Hal seemed like an old guy. Kyle wasn't as interesting as Batman or Wally but I followed it for a while, it was probably the first big character reset in my comic experience. Had no opinion on John, he was a discarded z-list character at the time.
I have no dog in this fight, explain why general GL fans won't buy a Jon book that's getting strong word-of-mouth?
Comic fans are Hal gays first and foremost. He's the lead, the standard, etc. The GL for two generations of fans.
Guy is the rebel, that one that doesn't play by the rules. He is a fan-favorite mostly due to his tenure on JLI.
Kyle was the loner, the torch bearer, the last light, and all that... later on he became the younger artistic GL. He was the only comic GL for a younger generation of fans and is fondly remembered for both his solo run on GL but also being the GL for Morrison's JLA.
John was a very temporary replacement for both Guy and Hal. DC had no real use for him after that, but miraculously he found himself in the excellent Mosaic maxi-series... which will never be collected or acknowledged by DC ever again. Long story short; his defining comic run was written by a convicted pedo. Oops. Not that it matters because Mosaic ended in tragedy and defined John as the GL that failed but still carried on. He was perseverance personified... but you can't have a POC comic character defined by a perceived weakness, so the comic stays buried.
Otherwise, he is just the stern, humorless GL. The GL that follows the rules and takes orders. He is unfortunately dull, his comic fans are nearly non-existent.
>buy no books starring black characters
>buy all books starring white characters
>WTF HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN
Its not for lack of trying that there are no black characters leading. They shove a new one down our throats every solicitation.
Finally, comics are healing. Now we only need better writers
Kind of surprised War Journal bombed
Thought it was getting strong word of mouth
>Kind of surprised War Journal bombed
John Stewart fans are DCAUgays who don't read comics. They're the type of people who are more enticed by the concept of a black hero but couldn't;t care less about actually supporting one.
>John Stewart fans are DCAUgays who don't read comics
Yes, We are based.
frick slopmics
This is true mainly because most of his fans grew out of comics a decade ago and as adults don't think of "Green Lantern" as someone that needs their financial support. Go tell DC to get their online comics in a better state before the start b***hing about people not buying things.
>This is true mainly because most of his fans grew out of comics a decade ago
Most of his fans never touched a comic book, they went into manga and anime because that's what JL shared the timeslot with on Toonami, and those that did realized he was the boring guy on the team.
JS fans don't read comics to begin with. Any black reader ends up being a fan of Static, milestone, or some other random hero.
Green Lantern fans in general are hard to find who aren't just man children at this point.
I have no dog in this fight, explain why general GL fans won't buy a Jon book that's getting strong word-of-mouth?
It got extended from 6 to 12 issues, so it wasn't a complete failure.
Green Lantern isn't a very strong IP these days but John especially can not carry a solo title. At first I blamed a string of writers that don't know how to make him interesting but after a while I have to start blaming the character too
>Green Lantern isn't a very strong IP these days but John especially can not carry a solo title.
It was a golden goose but the failure of the movie definitely stopped the hypetrain. Then the Nu-52 put further strain on thanks to the inane premise. Obviously, Geoff Johns and Peter Tomasi left it in a better state than just about every other IP minus Batman but the new editors and Venditti pretty much eroded it and it went from a premiere comic to just another comic on the rack.
Johns' run was incredibly strong but it ran for 8+ years across multiple books and events and by the end he was really running out of steam. The ending pages of First Lantern was good but the actual New 52 run was the low point of his run in terms of quality, and then Vendetti picked it up and shit all over it which killed GL in the comics alongside the movie just not doing well
>he ending pages of First Lantern was good but the actual New 52 run was the low point of his run in terms of quality, and then Vendetti picked it up and shit all over it which killed GL in the comics alongside the movie just not doing well
I nearly agree on all accounts. The last run was weak but the final battle against Volthoom was a great send-off that beats a strong beginning and weak ending.
The writers following Geoff were actually very strong, and did stories that were core to what Johns had set up. The DC hype train just stayed on Johns and let GL die.
Because Lee and Nelson wanted it to die, because their New52 died after 4 years, with the same shitty and painfully deserved death as all new all different marvel shit.
Even worse is that Both companies under their main higher ups Warner and Disney shut down both of their fandom favorite games that were DCUO and Marvel Heroes, they killed the companies out of spite.
Why do you leave DiDio out, when he was the main butthurt about Nu52 failing and Rebirth getting some interest back?
DiDio at least saw the writing on the wall the moment he was backstabbed by Lee and Nelson.
> but the failure of the movie definitely stopped the hypetrain
I still feel more people might have seen the movie had the used John Stewart instead of Hal Jordan. I think by the time the movie came out, normies were more familiar with the DCAU version of Green Lantern and were confused why he wasn't black in the movie.
>I still feel more people might have seen the movie had the used John Stewart instead of Hal Jordan.
It would have sold even less with John Stewart because you need Hal Jordan to set up all the story angles in the first place. Plus the movie came out years after the show wrapped up and the audience moved on to anime or whatever cartoon CN had on that time.
Also coming from the JL cartoon, John was just really boring.
>At first I blamed a string of writers that don't know how to make him interesting but after a while I have to start blaming the character too
John Stewart as a character was fricked from the start because Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams wanted a Green Lantern who was BLACK. John Stewart was so fricking 70s I'm surprised he didn't have a pan-Africa medallion and a fro.Literally, the only time he was interesting was when they dumped that shit and made him sheriff of a shitpost planet.
Anon, he debuted with a 'fro.
Not like this.
About half that size.
John fails for the same reason Cyborg always fails. He has no side cast, no major villains, no major story arcs that he is well known for, and no major defining traits that let him stand out. When he does get into the spotlight, he never does much hero shit and it always turns into some kind of personal story, further failing to establish a side cast or villain. which is the only reason anyone reads a cape book in the first place.
NTA but that sums up a lot of side characters once they get their own book/story to shine in. One writer leaving their mark won't be carried by the next one causing the character to feel disjointed and never see their true potential.
Cyborg is even worse. John can at least do fun space shit and has the other GLs to play around with. Cyborg on the other hand has been stuck telling the same story in every solo book he's ever been, or being a discount Martian manhunter for whatever group he's in.
wasn't it only supposed to be 6 issues long originally?
it was always a limited series, and AFAIK it IS doing well.
i think OP and the twitter rando might both have been a little disingenuous (people post shit like this every time a limited series with a non-white, non-male lead approaches its end because they don't even read comics enough to know what a limited series means)
personally i've been really enjoying reading War Journal's 'civilian life'-subplot but couldn't care less about the space zombies plot, funnily enough.
i am alright with looking at it, but reading it is not nearly as pleasant (it is being hard carried by the art)
“Limited series” is an eternal precope to save face to prepare for something not selling. Green Arrow was a limited series and it upgraded to ongoing when it was well recieved. Theres no such thing as a true limited series anymore. Anything that sells gets more issues.
if it were originally a 12-issue limited series, i'd probably agree with you, but a 6-issue limited monthly series is basically never going to get to full series status unless it's an INCREDIBLE breakout success - it has two big hurdles to cross, the 6 -> 12 extension and the 12 -> full series extension, and both are difficult from a writing (since you're often building a series off the foundation of a single short arc) and fan engagement standpoint (since some people avoid limited series, or wait until they're complete to binge them)
Everyone has to admit
They need Johns and HEAT for Green Lantern.
But Jism Lee and Diane Nelson finished their killing coup at DC to push homosexualry, with lee now hating his past drawing.
It was a limited series to begin with but because of the decent word of mouth they most likely extended it. That being said the good word of mouth was disingenuous at best it really wasn’t that good, mainly because the storyline/big bad was nonsensical garbage that was hard to follow. The only thing the book had going for it was Johns mom having Alzheimer’s… but after the reveal it kinda fell flat as well.
>Thought it was getting strong word of mouth
Shills pushing it desperately aren’t word of mouth. Johnson or his friends did the same with his god awful warworld saga too. He’s just not a good writer.
It wasn't a John Stewart movie. Focus was wasted on Green Arrow and Geoff Johns' self insert as well.
This is sad news actually. They’re just going to crowbar this shitstain into Hal’s book now to keep him in print like they did with Jo. We need a new Green Lantern Corps title to shovel these freeloaders off into. But even then i’d rather see Guy and Jessica leading that. Maybe Arisia too.
Maybe black people can, you know, spend money on the things they want? So they will continue to happen? Funny how they expect to just be pandered to for existing and offer zero trade-off for meeting their irrational demands to be dominant everywhere.
They shouldn't have to because it's white people's responsibility to multiple copies of some comic nobody cares about to prove they're not racist
>Maybe black people can, you know, spend money on the things they want?
How can I spend money on something that doesn't exist?
Dragonball exists, liar.
Black guy here. When did black people demand any of this? I missed that meeting.
How could you miss it? The Emperor summoned us all.
Jesse Jackson is not the emperor of black people.
>Maybe black people can, you know, spend money on the things they want?
They do. Which is why manga is selling so well.
It's ironic that black people support Anime and manga, despite the near complete lack of representation... while Western "creatives" insist that representation is the most important aspect of modern entertainment. You CANNOT have a modern entertainment product without adding diversity, meanwhile the consumers just prioritize creative, fun, and sexy products.
>You CANNOT have a modern entertainment product without adding diversity, meanwhile the consumers just prioritize creative, fun, and sexy products.
Imagine saying something like this in a GL thread knowing people love the Corps.
>It's ironic that white people support Anime and manga, despite the near complete lack of representation... while Western "creatives" insist that representation is the most important aspect of modern entertainment. You CANNOT have a modern entertainment product without white people, meanwhile the consumers just prioritize creative, fun, and sexy products.
My point is that the audience (white, black, whatever) wants creativity more than representation. Representation is meaningless, I don't need to see White people in kung fu films anymore than Black people need to see Black Gundam pilots or Mexicans caring about Latino Saiyans in DBZ.
Western media insists on representation as the most essential (and often only) aspect of an entertainment product. Whites, Blacks, Latinos, Asians just laugh at Western media progressives and continue consuming whatever product appeals to them.
>My point is that the audience (white, black, whatever) wants creativity more than representation
No, they want something cool, they want good designs, good battles, charismatic characters, you don't need to be creative for those things, all you need is to be competent and give a frick, no one in DC give a frick about what people think is cool, they want to show off some kind of imaginary power they have over a dead company.
One might have thought all the shows that were successful but really didn't have humans front and center might have taught people this.
Transformers did really well, while people can't actually relate to a giant robot from space, they shoot lasers and turn into jets so who cares?
Looney Tunes and Ducktales did incredibly well, while kids can't relate to talking ducks and rabbits, they don't care.
Animaniacs are even more unrelatable, no one related to wacky crazy doodles from the 1930s.
Viewers by and large do not give a shit if something is relatable to them. They just want the entertainment and cool visuals. Psychology degrees need to get the frick out of entertainment already. Neurotic adults keep trying to make shows about race. Deranged adults keep trying to make comics about gender. Creepy adults keep trying to make movies about puberty. While some of the biggest franchises in history only had big robots punching each other, mutant turtles kicking robots, wacky rabbits dropping pianos on people, a talking sponge catching jellyfish.
It's weird how the biggest, most beloved franchises in entertainment never talked about race, gender, or puberty right? No, no it isn't It should not even be a fricking surprise. No shit the biggest franchises that everyone loves never says a single fricking thing about race, gender, or puberty.
This is just
>I am white
:The Post
It is hard to even begin to explain why and how you are wrong. but it is easier to just understand you are a racist pining for the Gool ol' Days. As usual...
>W-W-W-WAYSISS!!!
Opinion discarded.
>Transformers did really well, while people can't actually relate to a giant robot from space, they shoot lasers and turn into jets so who cares?
the most ironic thing is, they constantly tried to add humans into the franchise so that "people can relate", when in reality every kid always wanted the humans gone so that the show/movies can focus on the giant robots instead.
Because actual consumers do not give a flying frick about
>Representation
they just want a fun story with cool shit happening in it.
This is what something like..,EVERY single creative in the US refuses to understand.
I think the problem is already perfectly displayed in that tweet. They did not write a book and expect it to attract readers due to the story being interesting, or fun things happening that people would want to read about.
They thought they could slap a book together, stick a black character in the lead and every black reader would run to buy three copies on basic principle that it was a book with a black lead. And when it fails they fall back on blaming everyone else for being racist instead of themselves for not making something people are interested in. It's always the customer's fault.
They do. Air Jordan sales didnt even slow down during covid.
I'm pretty sure the whole fighting game community is being held up by blacks, with a couple Japanese and Hispanics here and there.
There are too many GLs and Stewart can easily be killed off and stay dead to hype an event. Death of Green Lantern would be a cool book even, do in the style of Death of Superman.
>There are too many GLs and Stewart can easily be killed off and stay dead to hype an event.
Reminder this crybaby sack of shit left when the editors presented him with an angle to kill off John Stewart and said it would set back black heroes and shit on Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams' work.
who? you fricking comic nerds think people memorize these people just because you have a hateboner on someone for writing a book like 20 people read lmao
Too stupid to image search I see.
too lazy to see who bald comic nerd writer #145 would be.
I didn't know that but yeah like
said the virtue signalling racial grifters are finally getting their due and going out of business. It was never sustainable to keep taking losses.
And I’m glad to see this pandering finally end. I agree with you about it not being sustainable, but honestly there was a time when it felt like it was never going to end.
Of course it's always a bald white guy with glasses, and pube beard.
It sucks for John fans but some of the Green Lanterns seriously need to die. There is no fricking reason there needs to be this many Earth-based GLs.
I was gonna say "what? Garth had Tula and married Dolphin" but then I remembered the current Aqualad is a literal gay Black person. lol
Hal, Guy, John, and Jessica should be the earth green lanterns. Kyle should be a white lantern. Kill the rest
you can't really frame it like you would the death of superman because unlike superman there's ten other green lanterns ready to jump into the spotlight and replace him
DC Comics is lucky to have any comics with how badly they sell.
The only thing keeping them afloat are Batman and Nightwing.
Tom King sells well too. Look at his Wonder Woman.
Superman books have been doing well due to the House of Brainiac event too.
Disneygay we can smell you a mile away
> We're progressing backwards it seems
Yes, from the knifes edge of insane pandering and tribalism. This is a good thing, let it rot and let something better grow out of the remains.
black people vote with their wallets the same as the rest of us
my lcbs’s resident black guy is a iron man gay, is he supposed to financially support ironheart just because shes muh black? no
tired off racial grifters yapping about comics they didnt read themselves going out of print.
>black people vote with their wallets the same as the rest of us
And by their wallets I mean wallets they stole after sucker punching some 70 year old White dude
excuse you, they prefer targeting asians.
Well DC is pretty white. All the most powerful characters are white. All their women are tamed or strong enough to be noticed but not tough enough to hang with the big boys.
It's pretty basic and kind of stale. Which is hard to change. It's pretty much white guy powerful fantasies and to hell with every other minority, culture, or whatever.
Reject slave morality, anon.
Unironically what did DC ever did to promote black characters? All they ever did was a bunch of outrage bait choices like temporary race change actors and new sidekicks they would clearly be discarded.
Black Lightning, Mr Terrific, Bumblebee, Vixen and Cyborg never get to do anything important, and they are doing the same to gay characters, Superman and Aquaman sidekicks aside all their gay characters were abandoned even Midnighter who got his own little fandom. Stop shilling sidekicks, start shilling actual main characters.
>Black Lightning, Mr Terrific, Bumblebee, Vixen and Cyborg never get to do anything important
Like what? Join the JLA? Lead a team of superheroes? Save the world? They have did those things but no one seems to care?
They didnt, every single DC event is about Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman and sometimes Hal Jordan and Flash, the only superhero teams in DC that ever do anything relevant is the Justice League whose leadership is consistently Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. None of those characters is an important member to the Justice League none of them have even an unique friendship with any of the trinity members, none of them are an important character in most events.
>Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman
Well, they are the literal icons of DC.
But they are also the most boring characters they have to offer.
So is Captain America and Spider-Man to Marvel but you don't see Captain America and Spider-man joinining forces and saving the multiverse by themselves while every other character stay in the background every single event.
It's telling that the best rendition of the Justice League doesn't have WW or Superman, and Batman is on support duty.
But what made the Detroit team so good?
I really enjoyed the Terrifics while it lasted. And Sideways and Vibe, but apparently only one minority matters in Nigmerica.
Because all of Black Characterization these days is MUH Victimish and MUH I CANT BRREATHE when God Himself blasted the wall with a lightning to send a message to everyone praising the fricker as a divine entity
DC also fricked with Jess out of simple spite because she sold better and she was more popular than Simon Baz and the now Token Bingo Sheboon.
In fact, DC is literally killing everything Johns did to save the fricking company out of spite because Lee and Nelson hates him for killing the Shit that was New 52 aka "Wildcats for morons"
>DC also fricked with Jess out of simple spite because she sold better and she was more popular than Simon Baz and the now Token Bingo Sheboon.
In all honesty, I'm more fine with Jo than I am with John. John brings nothing to the table but at least Jo has a fat ass.
DC fricked Jessica because EVS is her co-creator. And no I’m not a “le gator” I’ve called them soda slugging homosexuals for years. But that’s just obviously why they hate her.
>DC fricked Jessica because EVS is her co-creator. And no I’m not a “le gator” I’ve called them soda slugging homosexuals for years.
If that was the case then Jess would have been pulled from that awful superhero girl cartoon. The truth is that Jessica Cruz (and Simon Baz) does not move numbers on paper. Jo Mullein doubly so, but the fallout of Didio's failed 5G pulled her in.
Bro a humphries comic saddled with Simon isn’t indicative of sales. Jess could do fine if given a solo by an actual writer.
>Jess could do fine if given a solo by an actual writer.
That could be said about any character, but the truth is that female heroes just don't sell. Pic related.
Nah, Jess sold, but the entire Fallout of 5G, Johns getting phased out as the Lanterns, All of the Obvious internal Sabotage to put him out as Didio.
And the 2 people getting mentioned here wo are still salty over their pet project dying hard, contributed to this shitshow we see now.
The only reason of why we had Dark Crisis, was to fix Tom King's Character assassination's of Wally West and the JSA Cast back as Johns Asked Snyder to do so before he fricked off alongside DiDio.
EVS was never the reason for her, DC alone became a shitshow post New 52 due to Lee and Nelson.
And now, all of this shitty new DC Future whom we have a batallion of shills shitting even on Beyond, is their interns coming here every tuesday when Cinemaphile shits hard on WW and all of the shitty comics released that day.
They are desperate to pull that ESG Garbage as the new future of DC, and shitting hard even on the LoSH.
Carol Danvers post Captain Marvel shit is and will always be always a garbage person, and she always sucked solo, because Marvel never learned that People wants Mar-Vell, not her, and the funniest thing of all is that They cucked her twice with Kamala Selling better than her and being more memorable.
And that PIC alone is the proof of it.
They have, but the people who used to write, died the moment he learned of Bendis murdering Ultimate Peter to introduce fricking Miles because of a obvious internet pysop to put the community homie as spider man.
>Nah, Jess sold
NTA, but that alone sold better than the post kung flu garbage DC shat.
And to nobody's surprise at all, they are murdering Jess character again on the new GL run while making Hal look weak as Rayner, and have Carol and her Star Sapphire corps to save the day, because she still loves Hal.
See the potpourri thread posted above.
We are back to that, but with Carol Corps 2.0 due to the new Event later this year.
See:
That's also why Sinestro disappeared for years, was taken out of the corps, and back in his blue costume. Evs designed everything Sinestro Corps
They put a lot of them on the Justice League.
Cinemaphile lost its shit so hard that it got McDuffie axed.
Milestone is the only minority driven comic book company, and DC started it.
Has anyone else done as much? That's what you need to be asking.
>and DC started it
don't oversell it. dc didn't start milestone, they were milestone's partner for publishing and distribution.
Milestone wouldn't have existed without DC, anon. They absolutely get that credit. Cope and fricking SEETHE.
Ban Twittershit
Yes. We need a rule against Twitter screenshots.
Have Jon Stewart consider being interesting? Maybe that would had saved his book?
He was the coolest motherfricker in Green Lantern: Mosaic. But that shit's problematic, now.
It was problematic back then too, DC higher-ups wanted it cancelled before issue 5 even dropped despite it launching with 210k sales.
>Mosaic
Just picked it up
funny about the author going to jail
Enjoy your goodread, anon.
>industry is dying
>shit that doesn't sell no longer gets made
The rest of theGL Corps needs to go. There can only be ONE.
>aiiiiiieeeee its anudda genocide!!!
Maybe buy the fricking book then so they dont stop making them idk
The only answer is new J'onn series. He is black coded.
He took the form of a white man though most of his career. Even in the JL show he was white despite having a black VA. I do agree that he can conveniently fill any diversity quota on account of being a shape shifter.
When did J'onn become a black guy? Seems like any time he appears in tv stuff he's a black guy that goes green when he does hero shit.
This american obsession with calling every alien or monster character "black coded" seems a bit racist
i don't know make good new black character. Spawn was the leading sales book for image at one point. Do better.
Yeah but Spawn is hot garbage and has been since it came out.
Static could be good and was good for a long time, just needs the right writer. I know he just had a series but I never heard of the writer and nobody talked about the comic so it died.
>ywn go back to Green Lantern being a Batfamily tier line with a thousand different titles
We had a fricking Red Lanterns ongoing at one point for frick’s sake. Nowadays we can’t even get a GREEN Lantern Corps title. We had it so good and we didn’t know.
The problem is they still refuse to use any characters or concepts Johns created for some reason. They sharply reduced the scope of the book even though the expansion of its scope was why it took off. It's like if after Moore left Swamp Thing they took away all his new powers and just made him a resilient green dude again
Because DC's higher ups aka Lee and Nelson HATES him, and sidelined him into the Movie and TV department.
Unironically, Johns and HEAT had even the colossal Balls to restore even the bridge with Marvel for Another Crossover.
I am tired of this shit, and i hope now that the big 2 burn in their own hubris.
Which is the problem with John in first place, he is supposed to be Hotheaded due to the tragedy in his life and he trying to deal with the trauma of losing his wife to fricking Carol, But nope.
DC Sterilized him thanks to JLU
Why would Jim Lee hate Johns? I thought they were on good terms.
Because Lee is a spiteful and envious homosexual.
He Killed his own Gen 13 out of spite, and gave us clone Fairchild to mock the original fans.
Crossover? What was the pitch?
Asking as someone that doesn't read GL.
Did Johns introduce anything that isn't ultimately Hal wank?
>Did Johns introduce anything that isn't ultimately Hal wank?
Well deserved Kyle wank actually.
Johns created the majority of the current GL lore, he created the colour spectrum beyond just green lanterns, yellow lanterns, red, whatever, created by Johns.
To be clear I regard the retcon that Parallax is actually a space wienerroach that mind controlled Hal, thus absolving him of all his murders, to be Hal Wank.
Nah, Rebirth doesn't clear Hal of what he did, it just gives a reason for why Hal was so quick to commit murder and why the greatest Green Lantern of all time had his will corroded in the first place.
>Making an excuse for why "the greatest Green Lantern of all time" went bad isn't Hal wank.
Correcting character assassination isn’t wank
If Bruce Wayne snapped and murdered Robin and became the new Joker you’d rightly call it moronic, and wouldnt call the writer who corrected that shit performing “Batwank”
>and wouldnt call the writer who corrected that shit performing “Batwank”
I actually might. I'm kinda burnt out on Batman because of the sheer amount of Batwank that DC does. I mean shit he's the name of the company so I get why but I'm still sick of him.
It's called fixing the mistake of Batcuck and Supergay editors inflicted on Green Lantern comics for a decade. Say thank to Peter Tomasi for doing it.
Funny how all of this makes Clint Barton already look superior to Ollie.
GA was always a butthole prick
I'll never understand why they push him so hard as Hal's best friend.
How is the Parallax retcon worse than Magneto not actually be responsible for putting New York citizens in ovens at the end of Morrison's X-Men run, Cass being brainwashed by Deathstroke was why she became evil, and all the retcons that were done to absolve Wally from what he did during Heroes in Crisis? All of those are celebrated but people complain about the Parallax retcon still.
Magneto being guilty or not or being worth redemption or not is one of the most divisive topics in capeshit.
Bro, the vast majority of X-gays and every X-Men writer from the past 20 years sucks off Mags. The major complaint about Morrison's run is that Magneto was regressed into a mustache twirling villain.
Not really, people making memes and jokes about Magneto redemption and many crimes is really common, he's seen as just like Catra from She ra.
so they say Magneto's entire motivation is he wants to frick Charles?
Why did Wally get fricked so hard? Is Barry really that beloved?
Didio saw what Geoff did with Hal and ordered him to do the same for Barry. DiDio was an idiot.
Basically
already answered, but to add a bit more context...
Right or wrong there was a growing chorus of fans demanding Hal's return to GL. Kyle had a good run but had become stagnant, plus the GL titles had always revolved around a big cast of heroes sharing the moniker... so the idea to bring back Hal opened the doors for John, Guy and the Corps to become more prominent with no real detriment to Kyle. Plus, the a lot of fans had never forgiven the fall from grace that DC brought upon Hal. The attempts to alleviate the hurt feelings with his run as Spectre and his heroic sacrifice in Final Night didn't work. Personally, I think those fans were babies... who doesn't love a good fall from grace?
Regardless, it was a massive sales success, so Didio being a 6-year old child thought to himself "more more more."
Wally was a totally different story from Kyle though. His mentor had sacrificed himself heroically in the climax of one of the biggest storylines in DC history, it was noble and beautifully tragic. Barry fans were upset but eager to see how young Wally would follow in Barry's footsteps... and that was the story of Wally for the first decade. How can you live up to one of the biggest heroes of his era, how can you honor the legacy of your family? Wally's growth from grumpy teen, to unsure young man, to bona-fide hero was excellent. When he surpassed his mentor and stood atop the peak of legend the fans embraced it. Wally was The Flash for decades, and was the only Flash for most fans. Nobody wanted Barry back, his death was more heroic and memorable than any of his Silver Age exploits could ever be. He was also... let's call it "stoic" and not "boring," so there was very little to work with. The solution was to bury Wally and just transpose his personality on Barry. It was a gross perversion of the original "man inherits legacy" story, where the mentor robs his mantle from the hero that earned it. It wasn't what Barry wanted.
> The attempts to alleviate the hurt feelings with his run as Spectre and his heroic sacrifice in Final Night didn't work. Personally, I think those fans were babies... who doesn't love a good fall from grace?
Because the Spectre run never addressed how Hal was so fricking reader to murder, it just continued to rub in salt on the wound.
What was so confusing about it... Hal had a mental breakdown.
Hal watched his hometown, every person he ever knew and the people he protected vaporized in a completely pointless act of violence. While in the depths of despair he used his powers to create a brief vision of his home and his people just to see the last apologize to their rapidly fading light. He was then cruelly and coldly punished for this act of selfishness. It broke him, as it would break anyone. He saw a way to bring back all the lives lost and was denied, so he took a life and then another and then another. It was tragic, it was cruel... but it wasn't confusing. It wasn't poorly written, if anything it was more realistic than anyone wanted to admit. Anyone that has suffered a sudden loss has been guilty of wishing it wasn't so. What happens when the man making that wish has the power to actually see the wish granted?
Hal's fall defined the limitations of man, the desperation of guilt, and the resignation of altruism. The fact that some fans just didn't want to read it only proves how effective it was.
>What was so confusing about it... Hal had a mental breakdown.
Except it pan out that way. Hal doesn’t have a break down, he stops thinks and comes to the conclusion that taking power is going to solve everything, that killing everyone in his path is going to fix it. ET didn’t paint him as a tragic hero, it made into a crazy person. It’s only after Rebirth and Last Will and Testament that we can say Emerald Twilight was good because as it stands on its own it’s a cheap stunt pulled by people like Denny O’Neil who never understood the character.
>Hal doesn’t have a break down,
>it made into a crazy person
So which is it?
Don't you understand, Hal going full Rambo on the Corps is actually good character writing!
Again, it's you that is confused. I never said Hal was justified in any way. My point was that his fall from grace was tragic and believable in a narrative sense. A man sacrificing everything to redeem a perceived wrong, losing themselves and their principles in the act, is not only credible it's common in history.
He THOUGHT he was acting as a hero... we, the audience, know that he had crossed the line. That's the tragedy.
>A man sacrificing everything to redeem a perceived wrong, losing themselves and their principles in the act, is not only credible it's common in history.
It was the comic equivalent of a carrying out a workplace shooting because he thought was wronged by his employers. It was a character assassination.
Seven fricking million people died in Coast City.
Kilowog's entire species got genocided but you didn't see him carrying out Emerald Twilight.
Yes, anon because people deal with trauma in different ways.
Hal reacting poorly to the death of his loved ones is not character assassination, that would imply that the character was written in a way that made no logical sense. Unfortunately, a hero having a breakdown in the face of overwhelming tragedy and, in turn, commiting an atrocity in a desperate attempt to repair the situation is not a leap in logic. It's a simple tragedy.
What you're arguing for is a narrative dead-end, an unceasing adherence to the status quo. A man is fallible, a hero can become a villain... all you need is a reason.
If Superman woke up one day and said "I'm going to kill all Daxomites," it would be character assassination... but if villains started genociding all human life and Superman made the fateful decision to kill them it's a tragedy.
It's silly how you're trying to play up Emerald Twilight as this deeper story but the truth is that it was literally cooked up by editors because Green Lantern was losing money and in their incompetence decided that the reason for it was that Hal was too old and uncool and that the Green Lantern Corps needed to go despite the fact that people actually liked their premise of the Corps. Emerald Twilight doesn't become good until Rebirth is there to fix it. The destruction of Coast City was the editors sweeping away forty years of history without care and Hal going crazy was a solution to a problem they created.
Never said it was deep.
Never said the motivations for the story were altruistic or artistic.
Never said the rebranding/new direction was effective.
The only thing I argued was that it wasn't character assassination because it made sense narritively. That's it.
You keep crying because you didn't like the story, which is fine. Go on and dislike the story, but when you state that it's character assassination, you're just plain wrong. When you misconstrue my arguments and put words in my mouth so that you can easily dispute them you're wrong.
>The only thing I argued was that it wasn't character assassination because it made sense narritively. That's it.
But it was a character assassination. In the course of three issues, Hal jumps from sadness to a maniacal murderer no different than his rival Sinestro with no real build-up. Coast City blows up and Hal decides he's a bad guy now. It's Heroes in Crisis levels of bad without Rebirth.
>maniacal murderer
He believed he was on the cusp of realizing the power needed to resurrect millions of innocent lives, all he had to do was kill one friend. He begged Kilowog to step aside, he bargained with him, he pleaded with him. Even Kilowog acknowledged that everything up to that moment (even the murder of Sinestro) was forgivable, Hal was still redeemable.
... you make it sound like he was some galactic Carnage hoping from planet to planet butchering women and children. Is it really so preposterous to you that a hero would chose the murder of one friend to save the loves of millions?
Yes, he was misguided but it wasn't character assassination. Their was a reason, there was a progression of bad choices, there was a final line crossed reluctantly. If you didn't like the story just say so, stop pretending like it was illogical.
>Even Kilowog acknowledged that everything up to that moment (even the murder of Sinestro) was forgivable, Hal was still redeemable.
Kilowog didn't see the beatdown that Hal dealt to the GLC.
>... you make it sound like he was some galactic Carnage hoping from planet to planet butchering women and children.
I mean, that's how they implemented him during Zero Hour. The character of Parallax is very flip-flop depending on what was happening.
Kilowog explicitly acknowledged the beatdown that the GLC members received. He also watched Hal kill Sinestro... and STILL said he was redeemable.
>Zero Hour
We weren't talking about Zero Hour. We were talking about Emerald Twilight. I won't argue that the character wasn't assassinated to some degree by Zero Hour, but everything he did in ET was believable for a character experiencing a trauma.
>but everything he did in ET was believable for a character experiencing a trauma.
But it wasn't tho. People experience trauma in many ways, but those who carry out violence because of said trauma are a danger to themselves and others. Also, you have to take into account that Emerald Twilight had occurred several issues after Coast City got nuked. By that point, Mongol was in custody and Hal more or less realized he could do nothing about it. Then with ET Hal has his sudden breakdown and decides that anyone is his way to power is fair game. It just doesn't add up.
>People experience trauma in many ways, but those who carry out violence because of said trauma are a danger to themselves and others.
Yes, that's true... and the comic explicitly states that Hal needed to chose to let go of the pain or he could be led down a dark path. The comic agrees with you and you still seem to be suggesting that it's illogical.
>Also, you have to take into account that Emerald Twilight had occurred several issues after Coast City got nuked. By that point, Mongol was in custody and Hal more or less realized he could do nothing about it.
Poor planning on DC editorial resulted in a filler issue that had nothing to do with anything. In continuity ET opens with Coast City still smoldering.
Also, by Mongol being removed there was nobody for Hal to take out his aggression on. He was robbed of justice... doesn't that lend more credibility to his breakdown? He was left completely impotent in the destruction of his home town, the death of millions and he couldn't even punch the bad guy.
>Then with ET Hal has his sudden breakdown and decides that anyone is his way to power is fair game.
The guardians interrupt his therapy session and chastise him for being selfish in seeking catharsis. They sneer at him when he is literally kneeling in the crater of his home, holding the tattered remains of some child's doll. There's nothing sudden about it, he's grieving and getting poked and prodded... his pain just bubbled to the surface.
>It just doesn't add up.
It does though.
>he comic agrees with you and you still seem to be suggesting that it's illogical.
The comic of in itself is illogical.
>Also, by Mongol being removed there was nobody for Hal to take out his aggression on. He was robbed of justice... doesn't that lend more credibility to his breakdown?
No, because he took down Mongol and the Cyborg had yet to return.
>The guardians interrupt his therapy session and chastise him for being selfish in seeking catharsis. They sneer at him when he is literally kneeling in the crater of his home, holding the tattered remains of some child's doll.
The guardians chastise him because he's using his ring for personal gain. He knows that Coast City is gone and then decides that the very reason why Sinestro got the boot in the first place is worth fighting for. They practically made him the thing he hated most, effectively assassinating his character.
I'm going to assume you're either a troll or on some spectrum where human emotions are confounding to you.
There's no other explanation for why you would read a comic that opens with the hero, broken and battered, kneeling in a mass grave for millions ...and call it illogical for the hero to have a breakdown.
Again, just because you don't like seeing your favorite hero fall from grace doesn't make it illogical.
>I'm going to assume you're either a troll or on some spectrum where human emotions are confounding to you.
Says the moron trying to find a deeper meaning in Emerald Twilight alone. I already made myself clear in
. It's a poorly paced-and flawed event. Ron Marz knows this, Peter Tomasi knows this, Geoff Johns knows this, and the readers know this which is why the sales failed until Rebirth.
Now you're just repeating yourself. You already accused me of searching for deeper meaning and I pointed out in
that I've never once said it was deep. It's not deep at all, which is why I find it so odd that you can't grasp its simplicity.
You keep shifting to an argument based on the rushed nature of the event. Again, I've never once said otherwise.
You bring up Zero Hour. I've never argued in favor of Zero Hour.
You say the comic tried to justify Hal's actions. When confronted with panels explicitly condemning his actions. You go back to saying it's illogical for somebody dealing with stress to lash out in anger... which just seems to reveal a weakness in your grasp of human emotions.
You keep changing your argument, it's very disingenuous. Which is why I now believe you are nothing more than a troll. Well played, this is my last (you)
Good, now we can stop hearing your moronic arguments for Emerald Twilight.
is she smoking weed?
She's a ring-manifestation of Hal's desperate search for salvation, the swirling bits of smoke around her are the ashes of the former residents of Coast City.
So why didn't Parallax go do that? He had the power to rebuild Coast City, rewind time and stop Mongul, or rewrite reality to bring it back. But all he did for about 4 years was frick around in space and occasionally pick on Henshaw some.
No idea. I was only saying that the events that took place during Emerald Twilight were a plausible path for Hal to take. Emerald Twilight was not character assassination, it was just a story that some people don't want to accept so they dismiss it as illogical.
The events that happened after the storyline were pretty shit. The best argument I've seen is that Hal's consciousness expanded with his newfound power and that he needed time to adapt. Zero Hour was Hal's new plan, why resurrect just one city when you can resurrect every innocent life lost? I don't necessarily buy it but it's better than what we were given.
Also, I have to add that I don't even hate Emerald Twilight, the premise is actually ten times more interesting than Death of Superman or Knightfall, but the execution is rushed. With Rebirth, Emerald Twilight becomes ten times better than DOS or Knightfall because its explanation of why Hal let Parallax happen in the first place makes so much sense and gives greater meaning to the last thirty years of Green Lantern.
Johns got the reputation of the guy who can modernize a failing book and make villains likable, etc. He was stuck on Hawkman, Flash, and Titans for a while in hopes of upgrading those titles into something.
But Kylegays tell me that Green Lantern was much better when he was ruining other female heroes, abandoned Earth when his gay friend got beat up, and was fighting the much superior foes, Effigy and Grayven!
Kyle's run is underrated but it's not as good as Rebirth and it's built on destroying an entire IP in service to him
Honestly, his run isn't as bad as people make it out to be, his early issues are pretty fun and his chemistry with Guy and Hal is unmatched.
Everything that makes up the space part of GL was invented by Johns. He took what was a franchise that no one had ever really bothered putting in work to invent a backstory before and made a huge amount of history of the GLC and the Guardians. All the GL villains were still leftover silver age mustache twirling losers before Johns remade them into modern characters.
He built up a near dead franchise that nobody ever tried making anything out of except monthly adventures and turned it into DC's #3 book. But his inclusions were
>Yellow Lantern corps
>Brought back the Anti Monitor
>Rest of the color spectrum corps
>Larfleeze
>Atrocitus and tied him to the Empire of Tears
>Made Guy into more than a joke or loser character
>Black Hand, turned him into a major villain and tied it to 80s era mostly forgotten lore
>Nekron
>Made Hawkman and Hawkgirl into primordial symbols of love in the universe
>Made Earth the lynch pin of all life in the universe
>Made Guy into more than a joke or loser character
This is an underrated but essential contribution that nobody thinks to credit him for, because he was so successful at wiping everyone’s minds of the fricking dogshit that was Guy in the years before Rebirth.
You mean all the garbage because no one wants to remember WARRIOR Gardner
Post-Rebirth Guy is the same character as Warrior Guy, only no more Vuldarian DNA.
This. Not only did Johns make Hal one of the top 3 heroes in the DCU and amp up the villains, he also fixed the other heroes and supporting cast.
>He took what was a franchise that no one had ever really bothered putting in work to invent a backstory before
You absolute fricking moronic Black person. Why are Johnsgays like this? They do the same thing with Hawkman, the JSA, Legion, Aquaman- they didn't "really" exist until ol' Geoff got a hold of them. Frick off
Nah, in the case of Green Lantern it was absolutely true. It was in the fricking dumps until Geoff picked it up and dusted it off.
It was in a lull for a few years in the late 90s/early 2000s. That doesn't mean Johns singlehandedly invented Green Lantern mythology. You would know that if you read literally any Green Lantern comic ever from the 70s through the early 90s. Hell Emerald Dawn I & II still mogs Secret Origin to this day
This literally isn't fricking true. How in the hell are you kids so moronic? Have you read any comic books ever prior to 2003?
>You would know that if you read literally any Green Lantern comic ever from the 70s through the early 90s.
The 70s era of Green Lantern was absolute ass dude.
>Hell Emerald Dawn I & II still mogs Secret Origin to this day
Only Dawn ll, the robot from Dawn l looked ridiculous and was a reminder of how the yellow weakness was absolutely dumb.
Emerald Dawn was kind of annoying in how it pointed out that all anyone ever had to do was build a big robot and paint it yellow. It would then be able to murder the entire GLC without trouble,
it's like
>Okay, you can't shoot it with a green laser, but maybe could you shoot meteors or a planet at it instead?
>Could you scoop up some sun plasma and eject it at the robot?
>Can you open a wormhole and shoot it to another dimension or something?
>Can you do literally anything but shoot at it with green lasers or punch it with a green boxing glove??!?!
Just because the ring's power couldn't affect the robot, doesn't mean they'd be unable to stop it. The GLs could just pick up boulders and throw it at the thing. Things like that.
Goldface taught people that like 20 years earlier.
Because I actually read the book and you didn't
>Did Johns introduce anything that isn't ultimately Hal wank?
The Johns and Tomasi's GLC runs basically took the premise of the Green Lanterns and took it to the next level with pure refinement. As far back as the early 80s the premise of the Corps was a gold mine that was being wasted on the typical monster of the week shit and forgettable antagonists. The late 80s era of Green Lantern was fricking wild and spinning out of control because of how little of a shit the editors gave about it.
Thing is, no writer cared to do a single damn thing with the franchise at all until Johns. Everyone was fine with monster of the week, or make Green Lantern frick around on Earth and stop street level guys. No one cared about the corps or space stuff in 40 years.
You can tell the editors are clueless about the balances and scales of the Green Lantern Corps. Hal gets the main run, but the rest of the team gets the Green Lantern Corps. Now that DC is financially in the shits thanks to WB being incompetent, the scope is smaller than ever. By giving John a run and not to the GLC, the rest of them get delegated to side characters in Hal's main run. They had this shit figured 14 years ago.
All any other writer can do is blow up the central power battery, or have some new army show up for the GLC to fight. That's it.
Sinestro and Larfleeze had books at one time
Parallax Sinestro was the best shit johns made
Nah, they already teased Carol and him being together again, because of the new yearly event, since she will bring her corps back now that all batteries outside hers were destroyed by the Non-sinestro minister.
Jeremy's Sinestro acts like 1994 Sinestro.
>DC isn't publishing any black-led comics anymore. HELP ME OBAMA, I'M BEING GENOCIDED!!!
>zero comics lead by black characters
>dc comics is starting to do quality books and sell comics
What does this means?
>dc comics is starting to do more Batman and Bat-adjacent books and sell comics
fixed
Ah, thanks, now that makes sense.
It's always the same shit
>Big 2 release book made for LGBT/non-white audience
>LGBT/non-white audience do not buy comic, only pirate it instead because boycotts or whatever
>Big 2 get the message that these books don't sell, but books for white audience do
>Naturally they pump out more of those
>LGBT/non-white audience cry because they don't make books for them
Rinse and repeat
Based Jim Lee slowly righting the ship now that he's completely in charge.
Jim Lee sat back while Jon Kent became gay.
He gave Superman a brand new set of twins and exiled gayjon out of the Superfamily to be a titanshitter. Based in my eyes. Let the gays have their character and let him die.
>He gave Superman a brand new set of twins and exiled gayjon out of the Superfamily to be a titanshitter.
Because he knew they fricked up. Nobody like the replacement Jons.
Jon became gay for the sin of replacing Chris Kent and for the new canon "Chris Kent" beingevil. Jon had it coming.
DC made the wrong Superboy into wienersucker. The two of them could've been canon but DC just had to frick it up!
Why don’t they try pushing black characters who don’t have the same code names as white characters? This would help them to stand out. It shouldn’t be too hard to get decent sales for a book starting Black Lightning, Static, or Steel.
they recently made a Steel limited series actually. i thought it was pretty decent.
i didn't need the second issue to punch me in the gut with a 'casualty report' end card that stated Tracy Corben (Metallo's sister, stuck in a cyborg body with no sense of touch/taste/smell, quite distressed by it) is still locked in the basement of Steelworks Tower "under surveillance" and has tried to kill herself at least 3 times, but that's not relevant to the plot.
I feel like Steel had some momentum in the nineties before the movie adaptation. He was my favorite of the Supermen in Reign.
I'm going to be honest with you guys; I fricking hate this run. I was fooled into thinking Jeremy Adams was going to be a good writer because of his time on the GL cartoon. I hate the premise of the United Planets, I hate how Sinestro is back to being a whiplash villain, I hate how they're trying to make Hal a turbo israelite, I hate how fricking slow this run is. I hate it.
I loved the Hal on earth stuff. Good back to basics adventures and interesting drama with Carol and Hal’s poorhomosexualry. The UP setup stuff is slow but itll probably read better in trades. The release schedule is the worst culprit tbh, we get one fricking issue a month and have to put up with Jo as a co lead in the book now. We only get to see Hal once a month and the entire book isn’t dedicated to him, it’s moronic.
War Journal is just flat out better than the main run, and part of the reason is it's off in its own little bubble unmarred by all the characters in regular GL being insufferable.
Hal's a prick, Carol's a prick, the whole corps is now pricks, and the only characters i've kind of enjoyed have been Kilowog who's actually just Hal's light construct and the random Czarian man that Guy Gardner thought was Lobo
>War Journal is just flat out better than the main run, and part of the reason is it's off in its own little bubble unmarred by all the characters in regular GL being insufferable.
War Journal is carried by the art, John is a boring ass character.
Honestly I think character writing wise his mom and creepy light construct Ellie are carrying my interest more than he is. Still better than regular GL, though.
Hal being a jackass is his appeal. Same as Guy. Kyle being an emo b***h is his thing. Writers making John into le rational man because they’re too afraid to make a black character with flaws is exactly why he’s so boring and his shit gets cancelled. People would rather watch Hal be a loser b***h living in a trailer and being a creeper to Carol than watch paint dry with John.
This, War Journal is doing better than the main run because it's not being hindered by the dumbass events.
Samegay, shill, kys.
>anon says the good things about the character writing in GL:WJ consist entirely of a weird not-ghost child and an old black lady with dementia
>"must be a shill"
You said something positive which makes you a shill, obviously.
I cannot stand how fricking SSSLLLOOOOWWWWWWWW this book is. The damn book made it slightly over a year before Hal finally got a ring and flew off earth. What the frick?
And Adams is murdering Jess into being a traitor at all serving some Glowie Lantern shit inside all corps
Having her become Yellow wasn't enough.
no surprise. DC was always the white batman's house
Black Panther doesn’t like non african blacks, his movie is literally about that. Sad to see ameriblacks claim him when he probably hates them more than the average racist american white
citation needed
African blacks haste American blacks.
That was sorta implied in the first Black Panther run.
When T'Challa comes home with an american girlfriend.
Wakandans hate anyone who’s not wakandan. Tl them every non wakandan is the same level of shit, only in different colors. His movie was about wanting to remain isolated from the entire world, not specifically about him hating blacks.
Black Panther being a nice friendly helpful guy is mostly a MCU creation. Further pushed into ridiculous levels by Disney+ shit by having him do insane things like be the perfect space character that nicely asks Thanos to stop killing everyone.
While comic Black Panther was always a dismissive, brooding butthole that gave no fricks about anyone's opinions or international laws, and was basically exactly like post 90s Batman. The silent, dickish guy that wanders off mid conversation because he does not care what other people are saying, always makes contingency plans for everyone including other heroes, has no problems attacking other heroes for getting in his way, etc.
It took Namor Flooding all of wakanda into the sea to humble his black ass into buck status = broken
>buck status = broken
Wrong board
I think that's legit more of the 2000s characterization.
That Avengers Cartoon... secret spin off/au/whatever it was- Black Panther Quest is kind of the closest they've come to making T'Challa at least somewhat like his more insular, standoffish comic persona. His running flaw throughout the episodes is an inability to loop people in on what's going on, wanting to keep it to Wakanda only, and ends up causing pointless conflict with the other heroes. Worse, it leads to him getting played by Zemo because he trusts his tragic backstory over his own family and friends' motivations.
It was still a kids cartoon to be clear, but it was also obviously trying to have Black Panther have some sort of character conflict that was largely just him being unjustifiably secretive and untrusting.
>Black Panther being a nice friendly helpful guy is mostly a MCU creation
It's not consistent at all, he's sometimes a regular cool guy and sometimes an butthole.
Wakanda in general doesn't like non-Wakandan blacks. There's even a comic where Africans are literally starving to death outside of Wakanda's walls and the only attention the guards pay them is telling them to frick off and starve somewhere else.
If those were going to Wakanda for food, it was already not a good Black Panther comic.
Were you reading at the time? Civil War was part of Marvel's hysteria dealing with bush's bullshit. There was a lot of political commentary going on.
>both it and Identity Crisis sacrificed previous characterization in support of their subtext
Prrrrretty much what happens most of the time in stories with ideological pandering these days.
Did they seriously use the subtitle War Journal?
You don't capitalize "black"
Isn't Batwing in Outsiders? That doesn't count?
By the way, Potpouri storytime has finished covering GL
Carol's love for Hal is going to save everyone from another Blackest Night incident caused by a homosexual from Korugar wanting to be sinestro
Realistically, which black DC character has the best bet at leading a successful ongoing comic in this climate?
John Stewart?
Static?
Steel?
Vixen?
Some other Milestone character?
Cyborg?
Black Lightning?
Mr. Terrific?
>John Stewart?
Finished.
>Static?
Nobody wants to deal with the legal work behind Milestone comics.
>Steel?
His run just finished and didn't do so hot.
>Vixen?
Sadly an ensemble character.
>Some other Milestone character?
See Static.
>Cyborg?
Ensemble character.
>Black Lightning?
homie who?
>Mr. Terrific?
Ensemble character now but actually pretty cool.
Mr Terrific doesn't need a solo since he works better with the League and the JSA.
Static is a NOPE since his comic has been a rollercoaster due to The Blight that is the BLM shit instead of McDuffie's original vision
Vixen needs Black Label and full Sex
Milestone is on the same pit as Static.
Cyborg works better with the Titans and Jess
Black Lightning is more of a JSA than JLA either
Steel will never shine as his 90's Run because DC's higher ups HATES Superman, since their New 2 project where he was a super autistic Ryu died off.
Exactly
As everyone rumored of what Doomsday Clock was, Bring the JSA back and have the trigger to make a new JLA-Avengers Crossover if legal talk for both sides was finally done.
>Mr Terrific doesn't need a solo since he works better with the League and the JSA.
What does Mr. Terrific have to do with the League you moron casual cartoongay?
Give him another solo series but make it good this time. Bring back his alt earth dead wife, sasha bordeaux and his checkmate connections, the pulpy sci-fi of the terrifics
>new JLA-Avengers Crossover
I wonder what story would have been about.
It would have been written by Cates, Snyder, tynion and or ewing or something. So obviously it would have been absolutely atrocious. God help us if king or Hickman were involved.
>JLA/Avengers 2 by Keith Giffen, J.M. DeMatties & Al Ewing
>AKA the only guys we trust to try and NOT frick up.
Unironically Johns would do that because he loves the JDM Spiderman and Batman to a point it can be considered canon for both.
Al Ewing sucks though
Knowing Johns, he would make Steve part of the JSA as Namor, and Steve Rogers being Steve Trevor's Cousin per Mother side.
So Trevor's motivation is that he wants to Honor Captain America, also Hippolyta and Diana knowing Rogers and how good he is.
If Ewing is in it, he would pull out even the original TT X-Men Crossover with Darkseid taunting Jean
If Hickman is also involved he would finally Write the Lanterns and Nova corps cosmic stuff he wanted to do with Johns With the Nova corps being in fact remnants of the original Gold Lantern corps off the Xandarians who escaped DC to Marvel
There was a hint in the final issue of Doomsday Clock, looks like it might have been more multiverse-focused than the first one
Black Lightning, Static, and Steel. All have had successful solos in the past and could now.
I see potential in Mr. Terrific and Vixen, but I think you’d need to put a really great team on solos featuring them if you wanted a hit. Or you could have them written well in an ensemble and build up some interest there. Maybe both approaches combined.
John Stewart and Cyborg don’t work well with solos, they need other characters around them to bring out their character.
>Reddit Spacing
All 3 you mentioned right now got shitty solos recently, with steel being more or less.
Mr Terrific works better with a cast and dealing with F4 levels of shit
Vixen works Better as Black Label as Constantine. And yes she needs sex on the same level as that OVA movie
I spaced to indicate each grouping I put the characters in: Those who could have solos now, those who could have solos with some work and if certain conditions are met, and those I don’t think could have working solos.
As for Vixen, I see her more as a recurring character in Animal Man. I think she showed up there a few times in the Morrison run. That’s where I’d build the interest before spinning her off, much like Constantine spun off from Swamp Thing.
Considering that there’s a great writer/artist team on the book, then Mister Terrific. He has immense potential for an incredible sci fi focused book.
Bloodsport can be a serviceable ensemble leader.
Tattooed Man
I would read a Cyborg comic but it has to be handled like he was in the Snyder movies. He messed a lot of things up but it's by far the most interesting interpretation of Victor.
Bumblebee
>everybody knows her thanks to teen titans, teen titans go and DC superhero girls
>good design
>She is supposed to be an Ant Man and Iron Man mix with Wasp suit so you can easily just copy those 2
>DC only big female hero with constant ongoings is about superstrenght and magic so they are not going to outshine each other
I would divorce her from her husband though, the guy is useless, plus it's already canon that when she lost her memories she really liked to be around Dick Grayson rather than him so why not give him a clickbait romance with him.
>I would divorce her from her husband though
They'd kill you.
I never saw a single thread about Mal Duncan in this board, he's never mentioned, Bee get a thread per week and Duncan is never mentioned there as well and she is often shipped with Dick Grayson.
They even retired Duncan as a superhero for no reason at all and no one cared. What is even the point of keeping her stuck with a character no one give a frick?
>Bee get a thread per week and Duncan is never mentioned there as well and she is often shipped with Dick Grayson
Bumblebee 3 most popular ships are probably Nightwing, Hawkman and Zatanna now
You secondaries are embarrassing.
>I never saw a single thread about Mal Duncan in this board, he's never mentioned
There's a world outside Cinemaphile anon, get out of this bubble once in a while.
>Bee get a thread per week
The only version of Bumblebee that gets a thread is the DCSHG one because she's a shy cute girl that Cinemaphile lusts over, no one here actually cares about canon Karen
>she is often shipped with Dick Grayson.
Where and by who? WMBF fetishists? It's definitely not as popular as you're making it out to be, definitely not enough to break her up with the character that's been her love interest since her creation.
>What is even the point of keeping her stuck with a character no one give a frick?
If you think no one gives a frick about one of the few DC couples that actually got married and had a kid, then you probably need a bigger sample size.
I'm not gonna pretend like I'm Mal's #1 or something, but DC would absolutely get a frick ton of backlash for breaking up a black couple that had a kid, SPECIALLY if they suddenly decided to ship Karen with Dick, which would also never happen anyway since DC decided to go all in with DickBabs.
>but DC would absolutely get a frick ton of backlash for breaking up a black couple that had a kid, SPECIALLY if they suddenly decided to ship Karen with Dick,
Anon, Black Panther and Storm breaking up so Storm would go to be with Wolverine in the same very comic didn't cause any problem, do you really think Bumblebee breaking up with a literal who character that barely got a personality and can't even keep a consistent job or superhero mantle would cause any problem?
I don't think Mal is that much of a big deal to be honest, more popular characters than him are killed off every year. If anyone gave a frick they wouldn't force him to retire then bring him back just to drastically change his superhero costume and name just to retire him again.
I can't think of a better example of a character no one knows what to do with nor a better example of a "fandom" giving zero fricks.
I think they were already testing the waters for a tighter focus on Bumblebee with the World's Finest: Teen Titans miniseries, since she appeared as a back-up character there. She also got a story in the annual of the main series. Thing is, this happens every time DC has tried to revive interest in the "classic" Titans roster over the past 20 or so years. Her and blue boy always show up but thats largely it. She could never carry her own title, but it's still awkward to see that happen, especially whenever the company is attempting to seem diverse/progressive/etc.
Ironically she only existed to make Mal look better and give him a real Titans membership. But she mogs him in every way as the worthwhile character.
It helps that she got a consistent premise, design and personality unlike Mal who often change both his character and his superhero costume and powers. Mal is not even a character at this point, he's just a name. You can't write his peronality wrong because there is none, you can give him whatever superhero uniform and any superpower you want because he got no superhero identity.
Mal really lost the plot when he got stuck with that magic horn thing. That's really unfitting for a guy who wants to keep his ghetto neighborhood safe. YJ had it right for keeping him in the Guardian mantle.
None. White "readers" get too triggered at non white chars being a lead and non nerds don't read comics.
For the sake of Vixen's success as a solo character, I think we need to see her have sex... with a white guy.
But which white guy?
let Buddy smash her, he has intense jungle fever
>But which white guy?
>Making both sides of the political horseshoe seethe simultaneously
The perfect book according to Marvel's Editorial.
We'll do the statistically impossible: A White man raping a black woman!
Frick Frogposters
So the market has spoken. YET AGAIN.
Now frick off before lynching is brought back.
God willing
Does DC even have good black characters?
another homie is going to replace him, it doesn't matter
Can I have your attention, please? Thank you... I'm tired of Carrol and Hal's romance.
I like the new Hal cuck arc tbh which i never thought could be done well after Spider-Man. Hopefully it causes Hal to move on and get a space gf.
Hal meeting this homosexual was the worst thing to happen to him and the reason why Sinestro was able to crawl into his brain.
No
How was he not?
So tired of it being a problem when monitorities and women don't care about things. Just let us enjoy our comics, craft beer, and pinball machines in peace.
Oh no!
Anyway
>made Green Lantern the best comic of the 2000s
>thinks Cassandra Cain is a fricking dogshit character
>did the impossible and made general audiences give a shit about Superman
How come he doesn't have Jim Lee's job?
Nepotism, Simple as, and why Lee is still there as Tom King and Diane Nelson.
>made the greatest comic in the last 20 years in Super Sons
you forgot that one anon
I love him
>did the impossible and made general audiences give a shit about Superman
...What? I'm trying to figure out what you're talking about. Surely it's not his Rebirth Superman run?
Good.
Luckily Marvel exists to pick up the slack
He was the real-life Parallax.
I mean, they turned the likable thoughtful architect from Mosiac into a hardnosed jarhead.
This. They made him Hal Jordan but more angry, and army instead of Air Force.
Fricking boring.
Why did McDuffie hate Cosmic Odyssey?
>cancel the only good GL character's book
>more Halshit on the menu
Frick. Hal is the most boring motherfricker in comics. What does anyone see in that motherfricker.
your own fault for not supporting John
you should've bought 100 copies of each issue to show DC how much you care
Who is supporting Hal? Shit, this isn't like a Spider-Man situation where John is an annoying shit like Miles in the comics but is getting slammed down everyones throats constamtly, John is genuinely a better character all around than Hal and Hal should've been shipped off ages ago.
>John is genuinely a better character all around
ehhh
It's not hard to be a better character than Hal. Hal has the charisma and personality of watching paint dry.
>the charisma and personality of watching paint dry.
But enough about John.
hal is entertaining
lmao Hal has an actual character, John on the other hand is literally just "serious black man", he's consistently the most boring GL after Simon.
>t. Geoffrey Thorne
have a nice day you fat slob. How much does it make you seethe that you have one of the whitest names ever? Your parents had zero self respect.
Wait Thorne isn't white?
Johns made Hal into a shonen main character, as the dumb slacker that fricks around in life but wins fights against just anybody by getting pissed off and yelling really loudly.
He’s been been that way long before Johns though… did you ever read Emerald Dawn?
Green Lantern in the 90s was a total shitshow. The books were awful. It was all
>Hal is depressed and feeling bad, lost his job, lost his house, issues were about how much he hated himself
>Hal was an old guy now and not in tune with the rest of the hero community, was depressed he was getting older
>Hal self loathes some more, some alien tells him how much he sucks, some human tells him how much he sucks
>Hal is more depressed Mongul blew up his town
>John is depressed he let a planet blow up
>Guy is the most hated person in all JLA history, heis the butt of every joke, he only appears to be made fun of or have something fall on his head
>Hal is more depressed, now he is evil
>Kyle is unsure of himself, constantly mopes around doubting himself, this goes on for 7 years
>The rest of the JLA talk down to him and treat him badly too
>Hal is spectre, is depressed, constantly mopes around and talks about how bad of a person he is
Just god dammit, from 1990 to 99 it was GL is sad, feels bad, other heroes talk shit to them too while they feel sad. all narration is informing the reader how much of a frickup this person is.
I really hate how DC was absolutely fine with making Hal old as frick but would never do the same for Clark or Bruce. Even as far back as the 80s they had disdain for the character.
Yeah what was going on there? Why was Hal the only hero that got older while everyone else was still 32 or so?
It happened in the Mike Grell Green Arrow during an issue where Ollie was celebrating his 45th. Again, meeting Green Arrow is one of the worst things to happen to Hal.
Like the other anon and Kurt Busiek said it was apparently an attempt to keep Hal and Ollie's 1970s adventures canon. Except this would necessitate them pre-dating Superman. And lo and behold, in Emerald Dawn, Hal claims to be the only super-powered individual he knows of. This is lampshaded/retconned in Man of Steel Annual #4 where it reveals he was mistaken and just hadn't heard about Superman yet.
What was so special about their little road trip that it became integral to the character?
It exemplified comic books becoming "grown up" and gritty.
People really thought that Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams were cooking when they brought up racism, drug abuse, and politics. Most of those people are probably fans of Denny O'Neil than they were Green Lantern.
Why bother explaining it to you. You obviously don't read comics.
Frick off obvious newbie.
You never read a single issue of the 90's GL series.
not that anon but I liked it, it was about Hal getting his life back on track
rebuilding the corps was cool too, I liked kreon and brik a lot, and getting green lantern corps quarterly gave us more good stories about the corps
>You never read a single issue of the 90's GL series.
He's right about Gerard Jones' Hal Jordan being a whiny sad sack of shit who doesn't want the job.
disagree, post-crisis and after they had a firing squad for sinestro that destroyed almost everyone's ring + star sapphire killing katma tui + hal being dumped by arisia and not being part of any team for a fair amount of time it was understandable hal was a little lost
I like drifter hal, I think it fits the character
I think he regained his identity a bit, even if his fight with guy to go back to earth instead of rebuilding the corps was dumb
>t was understandable hal was a little lost
It made him look so lame. Dude didn't want his job and so they gave it to John.
you're not wrong. the 90s were a strange period for dc
Except he wasn't a 'sad sack' in the slightest. Hal was on the classic hero's journey, rebuilding both himself and the Green Lantern Corps.
So you just proved you didn't read a single issue. Good day, moron.
>Hal was on the classic hero's journey
It was a retread of the 70s run. How many runs did we have to see Hal go through a hero's journey because of his self-doubt?
That was the mid-80s, I think '84-'86. Crazy to think that Hal was a supporting character in his own run but then again we had to put up with Geoff Thorne.
yeah you're right, after green lantern became green lantern corps and then reverted
that was a real dark period for green lantern, with hal talking about how the ring fricked with his mind to remove all traces of fear and rushing that guy with the knife
at least the 90s had actual storytelling
I have never, and will never, read anything by geoffrey thorne
I have the 90s Vol 3 run anon. You however have not made a single argument other than
>N-Nuh uh! You just never read anything!!!!!
without any counter examples. So you are really just stupidly trolling.
And yet you still know frickall about the character. Not even a wiki article.
So nothing you said matters and it's all a lie.
>POOPYPOOPY! PISS AND CUM! SHIIITT!
Opinion discarded.
Go frick yourself, there's my counter example homosexual.
Take into account of who Hal was for the last thirty years prior to that to understand why people like him like that.
>John is genuinely a better character all around than Hal
Good bait
John always came off like the typical boring leader guy in cartoons who's only character trait is In Charge and stick in the mud. Like Leonardo, Cyclops, the one who is the boring adult who rolls their eyes when a cooler character does something fun.
>Hal: The Main Hero. wienersure yet is the standard. Heck of a pilot.
>John: The Master Builder. Kinda rigid due to being USMC and an architect. But has a collection of Barbara Streisand. Go figure.
>Guy: The Warrior. Can be considered as the "Dirty Harry" of the GLC. Somehow also a former teacher. Smarter than he looks.
>Kyle: The Torchbearer. Kept it up when the GLs were down and almost out. Bit of a weeb(thanks to him, the rest have basic knowledge of UC Gundam). Nice guy but also contained a supernova.
>>Kyle: The Torchbearer. Kept it up when the GLs were down and almost out. Bit of a weeb(thanks to him, the rest have basic knowledge of UC Gundam). Nice guy but also contained a supernova.
Kyle used to be a party kid who slept around but his time as a Lantern helped him slow down and smell the roses.
Wasn't Guy Hal's defense attorney in Gerard Jones origin story?
Yes, but he decides to go back to teaching gym at the end.
Do Americans really read Comic books for the leads?? Is this why American comic books are exclusively for speculation market?!
>I read Iron Man for the supporting cast
???
I read comics for the story
We're progressing towards what though?
Let Chaos take the world?
They should have a parachute ongoing black character always ctive even with low sales for that not to happen.
we're healing
Outrage over John existing has always felt so forced and unnatural. I grew up on the Justice League cartoon, so as far as I was concerned for many years of my childhood Green Lantern and John were indistinguishable concepts. I didn't even know Hal existed until a while later.
Like bro get over it
>Outrage over John existing has always felt so forced and unnatural.
John has always been the affirmative action character. He exists because two honky white bread motherfrickers decided they were going to play savior and save black people by creating a superhero who was black before being interest. There’s a reason why Mosaic is beloved but John’s mid-80s run is forgotten about.
I miss 2000s era GL and DC.
>Shit Writers and Shit Artists are put in charge of comics
>Their work is shit so people call it shit
>Shit Writers and Shit Artists want to avoid criticism so they start using minorities as shields so they can play the racism card
>The quality is still shit so people still don't buy the comics but now people are blaming minority inclusion for why the comics are shit
>Corporate instead of cutting the dead weight staff are now likely do believe that too many minorities turn people off and are dancing around limiting their presence but will to make money
It really is just very funny. In cartoons and comics progress was being made and nobody and stories were being told for these people but the hacks have basically ruined everything for everyone to save their jobs.
They are a little behind the times, the film industry tried this a decade ago and it still failed over and over again.
At this point, I honestly have no idea why they keep trying it. It should be clear to all executives now that twitter likes do not equal profit, and twitter chatter does not mean it will gain decent ratings. So intentionally making a bad movie or show, sticking a female or black lead and then decrying all viewers are actually evil racist incels when it doesn't sell is not really a game winning strategy. We have seen it just plain not work too many times.
They did course correct with patient zero, Ghostbusters. After making a bad movie that had just plain terrible press because it hid behind attacking anyone and everyone that did not praise it as the greatest thing ever made less money, they started totally over again and made a different Ghostbusters sequel instead.
Problem is that we are a few years too late in that Ghostbusters is just a bad title with too much baggage attached to it after that whole 2016 mess. Coupled with movies in general doing badly.
What does this have to do with Green Lantern you stupid homosexuals? Nobody fricking cares
It's relevant to the OP, we actually read the OP and answered it.
What does your reply have to do with the original discussion of a comic with a black lead failing and people talking about why that is?
i love doug mahnke
I like Green Lantern but the yellow weakness ensured nobody would ever take Green Lantern seriously for decades.
Parallax beating the shit out of the Justice League was cathartic as frick.
Autism.
Imagine if Batman became a bad guy because Ares nuked Gotham City but it all happened in a spare issue of The Flash and Flash made a monument to the death out of the engine that killed all those people and Bruce went insane and killed Nightwing and Joker because they were in his way and he became a super evil Batman.
Great, let's call him the Bat who lol and lmao even
Let's sell this idea to DC, we are going to be rich kid.
Impossible, Batman has at least half a dozen prepared plans and traps for alien nuclear destruction.
LOL... even in a thread about John Stewart all anyone wants to talk about is Hal. That's why his comics fail.
Maybe "diversity" is just not enough to carry a book. Huh.
More like stop pushing midcarders and give people what they really want.
>give people what they really want
Well you could have, at least, not used a cover with "Nu2" written all over it, then.
I just picked the best looking GLC pic. I didn’t realize the Nu-52 logo there.
this was pretty meh compared to kyle and guy in the preflashpoint era.
>love green lanterns as a concept
>don't like them existing alongside DC properties
>don't like most of the green lanterns (I like hal and jess)
what's wrong with me
>>don't like them existing alongside DC properties
I hate them being on the JL because they have to stand back so the Trinity can shine.
I always thought the biggest issue with any GL on the JLA is that they have to pretend that they know fricking nothing about space, aliens, or anything outside of Earth, and they also have to forget they are also trained professional law enforcement that can solve crimes too.
Any alien that shows up, a GL should know all about or easily identify. Or just pull up their info in a second. They never do this.
>makes Emerald Twilight good
Thank you HEAT's most beloved son.
Any hopes for the Zero Hour event?
Isn't crazy how Geoff and Tomasi rebuilt Green Lantern over the course of six issues?
>Things johnsgays actually believe
You don't make it that far to Blackest Night and Sinestro Corps War without an audience who wants it.
Sure you do, it's called turning every other book into pure shit and constantly shoving Superboy Prime into everything until readers flock to the only books he was not in....yet.
Yeah, but who cares? As long as Green Lantern is good, the rest of DC could burn in a fire.
not that anon but what the frick are you talking about Boy Prime ony show up in a few books and the ones where he was in sold way better than the average.
Meanwhile Thanos show up in more comics than Prime peak and they sell like dogshit because no one wants to see that purple Gary Stu vore TOAA
It's called the marketing department. Didio directed them to keep a white hot hype spotlight on everything Johns was assigned to. If it was organic growth, it would have sustained Johns leaving (along with the marketing hype). But it didn't.
>But it didn't.
Because you didn't have a guy like Tomasi as editor either and the stories that followed weren't as good.
The stories that followed were just as good, better even when you factor in they don't lean heavily into casualties for le gravitas or rely on past event and/or author hype, while also getting marketing hype. Johns is a mid writer at best. As soon as he lost the hype machine, he fell off, never to recover.
This. My favorite part was Relic and the death of the universe because the lanterns kept dipping into the spectrum, very cool stuff Venditti!
Who are you kidding, in the decade and a half since Geoff's run, Green Lantern has effectively been forgotten.
Yeah, because no hype machine from marketing playing it all up. It was always artificial, and you're just a consooomer who buys what he's told.
Sounds more like Batman than Green Lantern.
I'm surprised we don't have a static shock revival, for all the nostalgia his show has.
what scapegoat will comic book publishers use when the industry crashes?
Manga stole their market
Not sure if it will work because american capeshit was already dead before shonen took over the west.
Rob Liefeld
Good riddance.
OH NO! now let's see all the comics made by blacks with whites as leads.
>no black-led comics because they don't buy it
>no unwoke Marvel/DC comics because anti-woke don't buy it, they pirate
why should Marvel/DC not pander to 1 but should pander to 2?
Your so-called "anti-woke" are just heterosexual men, and they faithfully supported comics for nearly 70+ years. They only stopped buying after being told they weren't wanted anymore, even then it took years of abuse for most to finally throw in the towel on the hobby they loved. The fans that turned to pirating are absolutely dwarfed by the fans that simply walked away from the medium entirely.
The good news is that us "anti-woke" fans don't even want to be wandered to... we just don't want to see pandering to fringe minorities in every comic. By not pandering to progressives (that were NEVER going to buy comics anyway) you also have the added benefit of being able to reach a wider audience with children, families, etc. Children don't want comics about Superman exploring his homosexuality, or bedbugs, or unsolicited opinions on Israel, or racism mascarading as black excellence. They just want to see Captain America throw his mighty shield, and for villains to yield.
IMO the problem isn't the "wokeness" or "anti-wokeness" part, because explicitly "anti-woke" productions are also shit quality - the problem is ideological pandering in general.
i don't want specifically "a story about a heterosexual white man" or "a story about a gay black woman", i just want a good fricking story.
culture war obsession is a disease that turns subtext into text for brownie points with loud but small terminally online minorities that aren't actually fans of the works (regardless of what ideology the author expresses), they're fans of the ideology. there legitimately aren't enough people like that on ANY side to sustain these businesses. most people just want to read good stories, and almost NOBODY wants author tracts.
the long history of literature leaves subtext in the subtext for a reason: ideology won't write your stories for you.
That was basically my point, albeit more eloquently presented by yourself. The vast majority of fans don't want to be pandered to, they are begging the Big Two to simply stop pandering and just tell stories again. Tales of Wonder, Tales to Astonish, Brave and Bold stories of heroes and villains. It's escapism, you can do so much with the medium...just stop alienating people. It's a dying medium, pandering only limits your audience further.
>the problem is ideological pandering in general
Yeah... remember when comics decided to do political commentary with Civil War and Identity Crisis? Shit times.
first, political themes =/= ideological pandering. it's not "keep muh politics away", it's a "make a good story regardless of its politics"
second, Civil War 1 was a confused mess that had no overarching plan or message the writers of different works agreed on before they started, and both it and Identity Crisis sacrificed previous characterization in support of their subtext (to the detriment of their stories going forward) - but neither was really pandering to an ideology, either. Civil War didn't even decide what it was trying to say until nearly the end.
not good examples of what i'm talking about (either good or bad), really. more like just "generically bad to meh comics" for reasons completely outside this discussion.
Literally all they need to do is longer and more creative fight scenes in capeshit comics and cartoons, is just that simple, that's why everything popular nowadays is mostly fight scenes, anime, warhammer40k, games etc
I like to think of it as regressing forward
the ideas of liberal and progressive are sunk cost fallacy of ideology. even much of what we call conservative is just what progressives and liberals where like a few decades ago. we should have stopped a while ago.
Pretending black people are heroes and not villains amd criminals was backwards. This is real progress.
You have to go back,
Ironic, considering you think that is your hugbox
War Journal is great. Better than the main title.
It was always a mini and it got extend to a 12 issue series.
Fake news.
Didn't they do this minority heroes push back in the 80s and early 90s, and it also failed hard too? DC and Marvel are going after a demographic that doesn't give two shits about their progressive message or comics in general.
If people actually read it it wouldn't end though.
Most black comic readers Ik read on free websites lol
>Look, I posted it again!!!
>look, i'm from xitter!!!
Why so defensive, homosexual?
Good.
Black People: "Rules for thee, but not for me!"
How progressive can we be though?
This is no different than non-athlete women arguing that female sports players should make as much as the male players...then admitting they don't watch the games and failing to realize that ticket sales and ad shares are what pay professional athletes.
If you don't buy the tickets and the merch, the people involved don't get paid.
I'm curious- with so many people here saying Emerald Twilight was a mistake, who here was actually reading at the time? And how many started liking Hal after Johns?
I was reading DC when Emerald Twilight occurred, and I didn't hate it all. Hal wasn't my favorite character, I was a little kid and Hal seemed like an old guy. Kyle wasn't as interesting as Batman or Wally but I followed it for a while, it was probably the first big character reset in my comic experience. Had no opinion on John, he was a discarded z-list character at the time.
Comic fans are Hal gays first and foremost. He's the lead, the standard, etc. The GL for two generations of fans.
Guy is the rebel, that one that doesn't play by the rules. He is a fan-favorite mostly due to his tenure on JLI.
Kyle was the loner, the torch bearer, the last light, and all that... later on he became the younger artistic GL. He was the only comic GL for a younger generation of fans and is fondly remembered for both his solo run on GL but also being the GL for Morrison's JLA.
John was a very temporary replacement for both Guy and Hal. DC had no real use for him after that, but miraculously he found himself in the excellent Mosaic maxi-series... which will never be collected or acknowledged by DC ever again. Long story short; his defining comic run was written by a convicted pedo. Oops. Not that it matters because Mosaic ended in tragedy and defined John as the GL that failed but still carried on. He was perseverance personified... but you can't have a POC comic character defined by a perceived weakness, so the comic stays buried.
Otherwise, he is just the stern, humorless GL. The GL that follows the rules and takes orders. He is unfortunately dull, his comic fans are nearly non-existent.