>how do we attract new audiences to this franchise? >uh, we don't. the franchise/audience don't exist in a vacuum. the franchise is large/prevalent enough that everyone already has opinions of it. >hmmm. very interesting. you're fired. next? > ...have people who don't like the franchise make movies in the franchise? >brilliant! you get to keep your job!
He loves Star Wars, he just doesn't like YOUR engagement with it, which is more about worshipping superficial brand iconography, consuming merchandise, and living vicariously through the characters as a power fantasy rather than the real human lessons of the original trilogy
That the guy who never gave up trying to find humanity in the galaxy's most sinister villain will grow up to try to stab his sleeping nephew, because of his a bad dream?
I swear prequelgays have never actually watched these movies
1 month ago
Anonymous
It was a moment of weakness for Luke. Then he noticed his dad was a fricking robot because he made the same mistakes he was about to make if he killed Vader and came to his senses
1 month ago
Anonymous
And seeing that Ben Solo was planning to shoot up a school was another moment of weakness. But you think Luke is an action figure, who because he resisted temptation once at 25, means that he has conquered temptation as a metaphysical concept and will never think about doing bad things ever again.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>And seeing that Ben Solo was planning to shoot up a school was another moment of weakness
Lmao moron "seeing ben solo" wasn't the moment of weakness, it was when he tried to kill child Ben Solo in his sleep who hadn't yet done anything wrong.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>wanting to kill a family member, son of your sister and best friend >it was just le moment of weakness
1 month ago
Anonymous
>it was when he tried to kill child Ben Solo in his sleep who hadn't yet done anything wrong
Based. Made this boring character interesting for once.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>he made that character completely different character? >OH MY GODDESS I AM LIKE SO SUBVERTED AND STUFF LIKE I CAN'T EVEN RIGHT NOW
You watch Lower Decks.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>he made that character completely different character?
No? It's called character development. One that is not a complete snooze fest, made to appeal to manchildren smashing their funko pop action figures together.
1 month ago
Anonymous
See
>character refuses to kill space Hitler when all of his friends are about to die >decides to kill a kid over bad dream
Now THAT'S proper progressive writing. No wonder millenial shitters need quotas for writing rooms. Btw what happened to Bobblehead's SW trilogy?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Ben Solo was planning to shoot up a school
May I see it?
1 month ago
Anonymous
"I looked into his mind." Actual line of dialogue.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The same character tosses away his lightsaber and is willing to die, and you think older and wiser him would think to kill his nephew in his sleep? You're one of those morons who believes they're smart so they overthink everything. In truth you are a midwit, and I can also tell you're a massive homosexual since you came here to argue. Pretty gay combo if you ask me.
1 month ago
Anonymous
These people don't understand character development and growth. They want the character to be realistic and repeat mistakes because that's what real people do
1 month ago
Anonymous
>character development is a linear scale of progressive, positive growth
WTF, Tony said he wasn't going to cheat on Carmela anymore after his coma, then he cheated on her again anyway! Wtf is this bad writing?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>character refuses to kill space Hitler when all of his friends are about to die >decides to kill a kid over bad dream
Now THAT'S proper progressive writing. No wonder millenial shitters need quotas for writing rooms. Btw what happened to Bobblehead's SW trilogy?
1 month ago
Anonymous
See
[...]
I don't understand you people. The guy sees something that frightens him, acts on emotion but cognitive function kicks in a few milliseconds later and he stops himself. What's so fricking unbelievable about that? Feels like a very human thing to do.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>The guy sees something that frightens him >Vader didn't >sleeping kid did
Ok rian, where's the trilogy?
1 month ago
Anonymous
You don't understand how humans work. How a strong sudden emotion can make a person act on impulse. That's why you're a fan of funko pop figurine smashing dogshit.
1 month ago
Anonymous
If it is normal in your shitty family that you often find yourself standing next to your nephew's bed with a dick in your hand, you should be in prison.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Very funny. Now go back to watching your unoriginal boring and predictable space cape shit. I bet you onioned out when you saw han solo in the episode seven trailer too.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Now go back to watching your unoriginal boring and predictable space cape shit
Imagine thinking that a millenial leftie numale shitter like Rian wasn't entirely predictable.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Le expectation subversion is... le bad >Actually, it wasn't subversive at all.
You guys should stick to coherent criticism. You sound like you have schizophrenia.
1 month ago
Anonymous
He didn't subvert shit, he went exactly according to Blackrock spreadsheet.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>character development isn't a linear scale of progressive, positive growth
Why not? It's fiction. Character regression is usually unsatisfying. Everyone hated when Jaime went back to Cersei
1 month ago
Anonymous
you think the point of art is to provide hollow positive reinforcement and to make you feel good about yourself, when Star Wars had always previously avoided that kind of shallow messaging.
I will remind you that Anakin turned evil because he was an immature manbaby who couldn't cope that bad things would happen to him in life
1 month ago
Anonymous
Movies are not art. Rian's movies aren't even entertainment.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Movies are not art
No, they're just glorified toy commercials. Isn't that right, George?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Why not?
Because it's fricking boring. If you want that, then there's 10 quadrillion already existing movies for you to watch.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Why don't you watch something else and let us have Star Wars since you obviously don't like it in the first place
1 month ago
Anonymous
Star Wars was never yours to begin with.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I love how prequelgays who defend Hayden in RotJ will accuse people of not being real Star Wars fans
1 month ago
Anonymous
What’s funny is that after Luke momentarily considers killing his nephew out of fear he could be a school shooter, his nephew decides to go ahead and become a school shooter and slaughter all his classmates. Makes a lot of sense, very well motivated. TLJ was well written.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>prequelgays have never actually watched these movies
This. To them, there is no OT. To them, Star Wars begins and ends with their school shooter Space Jesus.
1 month ago
Anonymous
this just proves Luke was never an infallible cardboard cut out but did struggle with reconciling his rage with his values. In the end he did the right thing.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Now let's see what happens immediately after, you disingenuous weasel.
>heroes don't exist, all men are cowards. Look, this uplifting character you admired chimped out for no reason and exiled himself from his family and responsibilities.
BASED and MATURE writing!
That the guy who never gave up trying to find humanity in the galaxy's most sinister villain will grow up to try to stab his sleeping nephew, because of his a bad dream?
Admit it, if it was all George's idea and doing, you'd eat it up without a second thought.
>IF YOU'RE NOT WITH THE PREQUELS, THEN YOU'RE WITH DISNEY
You mean the company that owns and distributes the prequels?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Let's not pretend that Disney didn't embark on a huge strawman campaign of uniting prequel haters in the hope of making their sequels look less terrible
1 month ago
Anonymous
>look less terrible
At least they succeeded there, to their credit.
This, I swear to God. He tried to write an ordinary Star Wars film and just failed spectacularly, the notion that it's a deconstructionist film is entirely damage control
Chris Avellone didn't like Star Wars but it was his job to be lead writer for KotOR 2. It was a little darker and more preachy than Star Wars usually is but at least it was still Star Wars. TLJ feels like a parody.
They didn't initially want jj to do all three.
They wanted to recapture the "magic" of the ot. That's why so much of the marketing for tlj focused on using practical sets instead of cgi. The ot also had 3 different directors. So the st had to have 3 different directors.
The ot wasn't planned out in advance. So the st could be made up as they went along too.
That was genuinely their thought process.
>The ot also had 3 different directors. So the st had to have 3 different directors.
That only happened because George had a shit time making ANH, what with having to tard wrangle everybody to get the movie done. Dude suffered a mental breakdown and went into workaholic mode to finish the movie. Even with the other directors, he still played back seat director and basically directed the movies anyway.
Bad leadership on the part of Disney.
I honestly can't believe they spent 1.5 billion dollars on a trilogy and literally just had no fricking plan from the get-go.
If they wanted him to do a SW thing it should have been a side story, and that's totally fine, he would have been happier doing that anyway. Randomly having a guy come in and make a movie in the middle of a trilogy that totally throws out the rest of the trilogy, and then expecting a third person to come in and wrap it up is mind bogglingly moronic. It's like the gig economy equivalent of directors. Marvel/Disney has historically done this pretty well with staying on target, I don't know how this happened with Star Wars.
It's because Kathy has literally no vision. Her plan for Star Wars is "persistent storytelling" which translates to have a constant feed of shit being thrown at the wall and hope something sticks
There is no synergy, no build up to an Avengers Endgame event. It's just picking friends or other hot talent to create a vessel to push some message in whatever time periods Star Wars they want.
All they had to do was copy MCU or Arrowverse and they could've been 10x more successful. Scrap the EU, fine. Then create a new story about what happened after ROTJ and tell it through movies and shows that build off each other and culminate in a climactic crossover. And do it in chronological order.
With all this skipping around, resurrecting dead characters, undermining previous stories, all leading to nothing, there is no point in watching or getting invested.
It wasn't unsalvageable. It was a total blank slate. He could have done anything with the story line that he wanted there were hardly any handcuffs at all.
The previous movie set up so much rehashed unoriginal dogshit that he had to course correct very sharply. There was going to be just too many cracks. There wasn't much else to do.
I know you guys on Cinemaphile hate a lot of various filmmakers. I don't. I only hate one - this POS. I was made to watch Knives Out 2 and it was beyond words horrific in so many ways I shan't waste time typing them out here. He's a nu male with that innocuous nice guy exterior that conceals a heart of subversion and hate.
I do shit on TLJ because it is atrocious, incompetent movie made by a hack, but even then Knives Out 2 is legit the worst movie I ever saw in my life, no contest.
The Holdo storyline still baffles me to this day. The rest of the movie is bad but you can at least see his thought process and the message he was trying to communicate. This b***h just didn't make any sense though.
>crashes multibillion dollar IP for manchildren, makes Star Wars fans seethe, proceeds to get insane funding for movies he actually wants to make
He won and is /ourguy/ even if he’s a little pozzed
Narcissism and a fundamental dislike for the source material. Star Wars is a classic hero's journey myth about honor and family, all things that Rian Johnson and modern Hollywood hate. So when given the opportunity to take charge of something he hated he took the opportunity to destroy it, he dismantled the hero, he injected his own ideology, and then he killed off the villain and left the series with nowhere left to go because he didn't care.
I don't even blame him, he made the film he wanted, he hate Star Wars and he never should have been put in charge of it and once it was apparent that he was going to run it off a cliff Kathleen Kennedy should have pulled him off the project before filming even started; but because she's grossly incompetent and equally narcissistic as Rian all he had to do was throw in some feminist garbage to keep her on board while he ran the franchise off a cliff.
Decided to torpedo nu-wars from the inside because a dramatic flameout for a franchise is less painful than a long extended strangulation of every last penny.
He very vocally hated Star Wars. Disney's interview process is weird
>how do we attract new audiences to this franchise?
>uh, we don't. the franchise/audience don't exist in a vacuum. the franchise is large/prevalent enough that everyone already has opinions of it.
>hmmm. very interesting. you're fired. next?
> ...have people who don't like the franchise make movies in the franchise?
>brilliant! you get to keep your job!
Source(s)?
Every interview with him about making TLJ
He loves Star Wars, he just doesn't like YOUR engagement with it, which is more about worshipping superficial brand iconography, consuming merchandise, and living vicariously through the characters as a power fantasy rather than the real human lessons of the original trilogy
delectable bait
It's not bait, it's the truth.
what real human lessons of the original trilogy?
That the guy who never gave up trying to find humanity in the galaxy's most sinister villain will grow up to try to stab his sleeping nephew, because of his a bad dream?
>Luke never gave up on Vader
I swear prequelgays have never actually watched these movies
It was a moment of weakness for Luke. Then he noticed his dad was a fricking robot because he made the same mistakes he was about to make if he killed Vader and came to his senses
And seeing that Ben Solo was planning to shoot up a school was another moment of weakness. But you think Luke is an action figure, who because he resisted temptation once at 25, means that he has conquered temptation as a metaphysical concept and will never think about doing bad things ever again.
>And seeing that Ben Solo was planning to shoot up a school was another moment of weakness
Lmao moron "seeing ben solo" wasn't the moment of weakness, it was when he tried to kill child Ben Solo in his sleep who hadn't yet done anything wrong.
>wanting to kill a family member, son of your sister and best friend
>it was just le moment of weakness
>it was when he tried to kill child Ben Solo in his sleep who hadn't yet done anything wrong
Based. Made this boring character interesting for once.
>he made that character completely different character?
>OH MY GODDESS I AM LIKE SO SUBVERTED AND STUFF LIKE I CAN'T EVEN RIGHT NOW
You watch Lower Decks.
>he made that character completely different character?
No? It's called character development. One that is not a complete snooze fest, made to appeal to manchildren smashing their funko pop action figures together.
See
>Ben Solo was planning to shoot up a school
May I see it?
"I looked into his mind." Actual line of dialogue.
The same character tosses away his lightsaber and is willing to die, and you think older and wiser him would think to kill his nephew in his sleep? You're one of those morons who believes they're smart so they overthink everything. In truth you are a midwit, and I can also tell you're a massive homosexual since you came here to argue. Pretty gay combo if you ask me.
These people don't understand character development and growth. They want the character to be realistic and repeat mistakes because that's what real people do
>character development is a linear scale of progressive, positive growth
WTF, Tony said he wasn't going to cheat on Carmela anymore after his coma, then he cheated on her again anyway! Wtf is this bad writing?
>character refuses to kill space Hitler when all of his friends are about to die
>decides to kill a kid over bad dream
Now THAT'S proper progressive writing. No wonder millenial shitters need quotas for writing rooms. Btw what happened to Bobblehead's SW trilogy?
I don't understand you people. The guy sees something that frightens him, acts on emotion but cognitive function kicks in a few milliseconds later and he stops himself. What's so fricking unbelievable about that? Feels like a very human thing to do.
>The guy sees something that frightens him
>Vader didn't
>sleeping kid did
Ok rian, where's the trilogy?
You don't understand how humans work. How a strong sudden emotion can make a person act on impulse. That's why you're a fan of funko pop figurine smashing dogshit.
If it is normal in your shitty family that you often find yourself standing next to your nephew's bed with a dick in your hand, you should be in prison.
Very funny. Now go back to watching your unoriginal boring and predictable space cape shit. I bet you onioned out when you saw han solo in the episode seven trailer too.
>Now go back to watching your unoriginal boring and predictable space cape shit
Imagine thinking that a millenial leftie numale shitter like Rian wasn't entirely predictable.
>Le expectation subversion is... le bad
>Actually, it wasn't subversive at all.
You guys should stick to coherent criticism. You sound like you have schizophrenia.
He didn't subvert shit, he went exactly according to Blackrock spreadsheet.
>character development isn't a linear scale of progressive, positive growth
Why not? It's fiction. Character regression is usually unsatisfying. Everyone hated when Jaime went back to Cersei
you think the point of art is to provide hollow positive reinforcement and to make you feel good about yourself, when Star Wars had always previously avoided that kind of shallow messaging.
I will remind you that Anakin turned evil because he was an immature manbaby who couldn't cope that bad things would happen to him in life
Movies are not art. Rian's movies aren't even entertainment.
>Movies are not art
No, they're just glorified toy commercials. Isn't that right, George?
>Why not?
Because it's fricking boring. If you want that, then there's 10 quadrillion already existing movies for you to watch.
Why don't you watch something else and let us have Star Wars since you obviously don't like it in the first place
Star Wars was never yours to begin with.
I love how prequelgays who defend Hayden in RotJ will accuse people of not being real Star Wars fans
What’s funny is that after Luke momentarily considers killing his nephew out of fear he could be a school shooter, his nephew decides to go ahead and become a school shooter and slaughter all his classmates. Makes a lot of sense, very well motivated. TLJ was well written.
>prequelgays have never actually watched these movies
This. To them, there is no OT. To them, Star Wars begins and ends with their school shooter Space Jesus.
this just proves Luke was never an infallible cardboard cut out but did struggle with reconciling his rage with his values. In the end he did the right thing.
Now let's see what happens immediately after, you disingenuous weasel.
This. All the way.
>Ugh this fictional character isn't realistic enough. He needs to be a loser like I am!
>heroes don't exist, all men are cowards. Look, this uplifting character you admired chimped out for no reason and exiled himself from his family and responsibilities.
BASED and MATURE writing!
>prone to doubt
>tries to murder the child of his sister and best friend in his bed
>rather than the real human lessons of the original trilogy
WAKEY WAKEY BEN
Admit it, if it was all George's idea and doing, you'd eat it up without a second thought.
that's right! nobody ever dared to question or criticize lucas
That's the Luke Skywalker I grew up with, thanks Rian 🙂
That's nice except he ignored all the lessons of the OT and PT which actually made sense unlike his collection of bizarre contradictions
>all the lessons of the PT
You mean, "BUY OUR TOYS"?
Nice try mouse
>IF YOU'RE NOT WITH THE PREQUELS, THEN YOU'RE WITH DISNEY
You mean the company that owns and distributes the prequels?
Let's not pretend that Disney didn't embark on a huge strawman campaign of uniting prequel haters in the hope of making their sequels look less terrible
>look less terrible
At least they succeeded there, to their credit.
People bought PT toys and games. No one buys ST shit
There were no Fortnite or TikTok when the PT came out.
There were no good Star Wars products when TikTok and Fortnite came out either
the prequels contradict the OT left and right
Name one
>Your full potential is determined not by your spirituality, but your cholesterol level
That's one.
That's not a retcon, if anything it's affirmation that The Force is hereditary, which the OT implied several times
Try again
And pink hat wearing numale Rian contradicted SW out of existence.
Nah.
He had a problem with continuity and story progression. That's just poor writing ability.
8/8
fpbp, but also a clueless loser with a big budget
jj was worse than him though - no originality whatshoever
>implying he did it on purpose
This, I swear to God. He tried to write an ordinary Star Wars film and just failed spectacularly, the notion that it's a deconstructionist film is entirely damage control
>deconstruction
It's literally mostly the same beats as Empire. Idk how people still cope with saying "at least he did something different"
Chris Avellone didn't like Star Wars but it was his job to be lead writer for KotOR 2. It was a little darker and more preachy than Star Wars usually is but at least it was still Star Wars. TLJ feels like a parody.
>let the past die
>kill it if you have to
>star wars is literally dead now
He fufilled his prophecy
JJ either should have agreed to do all 3, or find someone else who would
They didn't initially want jj to do all three.
They wanted to recapture the "magic" of the ot. That's why so much of the marketing for tlj focused on using practical sets instead of cgi. The ot also had 3 different directors. So the st had to have 3 different directors.
The ot wasn't planned out in advance. So the st could be made up as they went along too.
That was genuinely their thought process.
>The ot also had 3 different directors. So the st had to have 3 different directors.
That only happened because George had a shit time making ANH, what with having to tard wrangle everybody to get the movie done. Dude suffered a mental breakdown and went into workaholic mode to finish the movie. Even with the other directors, he still played back seat director and basically directed the movies anyway.
>your Snoke theory sucks!!
>shut up manbaby MAAAHHH DEEEK
Guy is just an butthole. Even all the cast straight up said they liked working with JJ more
It had to be ruined and he made a quite good job of that.
Because he watches RLM. Just a talentless millenial moron overdosing on turboirony.
shit writer who also realized the gig was a trap that wouldve resulted in someone's ire no matter how it was done
He wanted to subvert your expectations
Bad leadership on the part of Disney.
I honestly can't believe they spent 1.5 billion dollars on a trilogy and literally just had no fricking plan from the get-go.
If they wanted him to do a SW thing it should have been a side story, and that's totally fine, he would have been happier doing that anyway. Randomly having a guy come in and make a movie in the middle of a trilogy that totally throws out the rest of the trilogy, and then expecting a third person to come in and wrap it up is mind bogglingly moronic. It's like the gig economy equivalent of directors. Marvel/Disney has historically done this pretty well with staying on target, I don't know how this happened with Star Wars.
It's because Kathy has literally no vision. Her plan for Star Wars is "persistent storytelling" which translates to have a constant feed of shit being thrown at the wall and hope something sticks
There is no synergy, no build up to an Avengers Endgame event. It's just picking friends or other hot talent to create a vessel to push some message in whatever time periods Star Wars they want.
All they had to do was copy MCU or Arrowverse and they could've been 10x more successful. Scrap the EU, fine. Then create a new story about what happened after ROTJ and tell it through movies and shows that build off each other and culminate in a climactic crossover. And do it in chronological order.
With all this skipping around, resurrecting dead characters, undermining previous stories, all leading to nothing, there is no point in watching or getting invested.
It's the soap-operafication of content.
I just don't know how they let it leak into the mainline entries that are supposed to be the hooks/bait.
He tried desperately to salvage what was unsalvageable. Cut him some slack. He tried.
It wasn't unsalvageable. It was a total blank slate. He could have done anything with the story line that he wanted there were hardly any handcuffs at all.
The previous movie set up so much rehashed unoriginal dogshit that he had to course correct very sharply. There was going to be just too many cracks. There wasn't much else to do.
Mad about Trump winning.
I know you guys on Cinemaphile hate a lot of various filmmakers. I don't. I only hate one - this POS. I was made to watch Knives Out 2 and it was beyond words horrific in so many ways I shan't waste time typing them out here. He's a nu male with that innocuous nice guy exterior that conceals a heart of subversion and hate.
I do shit on TLJ because it is atrocious, incompetent movie made by a hack, but even then Knives Out 2 is legit the worst movie I ever saw in my life, no contest.
He was way better than JJ.
TLJ just needed a bit of editing here and there, TROS was unsalvageable.
The Holdo storyline still baffles me to this day. The rest of the movie is bad but you can at least see his thought process and the message he was trying to communicate. This b***h just didn't make any sense though.
The producers probably told him that he needed to meet ESG quota for Black Rock funding
She was Kathleen Kennedy's self insert. The brilliant leader doubted by lesser men around her.
>The brilliant leader doubted by lesser men around her.
But she got most of them killed.
he doesn't believe in making sense
>crashes multibillion dollar IP for manchildren, makes Star Wars fans seethe, proceeds to get insane funding for movies he actually wants to make
He won and is /ourguy/ even if he’s a little pozzed
I think anyone here would do the same thing if they were in his position. No single person has been able to frick Disney over to the same extent.
>Why did he do it?
Narcissism and a fundamental dislike for the source material. Star Wars is a classic hero's journey myth about honor and family, all things that Rian Johnson and modern Hollywood hate. So when given the opportunity to take charge of something he hated he took the opportunity to destroy it, he dismantled the hero, he injected his own ideology, and then he killed off the villain and left the series with nowhere left to go because he didn't care.
I don't even blame him, he made the film he wanted, he hate Star Wars and he never should have been put in charge of it and once it was apparent that he was going to run it off a cliff Kathleen Kennedy should have pulled him off the project before filming even started; but because she's grossly incompetent and equally narcissistic as Rian all he had to do was throw in some feminist garbage to keep her on board while he ran the franchise off a cliff.
A CIS LORD
Decided to torpedo nu-wars from the inside because a dramatic flameout for a franchise is less painful than a long extended strangulation of every last penny.
When is Knives Out 3?