Why didn’t Skynet send the T1000 to 1984 instead? there’s no possibility that Kyle Reese could have stopped him
Why didnt Skynet send the T1000 to 1984 instead? theres no possibility that Kyle Reese could have stopped him
Why didn’t Skynet send the T1000 to 1984 instead? there’s no possibility that Kyle Reese could have stopped him
Please don't think too hard about it.
Why does the T1000 like shota?
why didn't Skynet just ride the eagle and drop John Connor into the lava factory?
Underrated.
Because he was already there at that specific time, because they sent him there, because he was already there, because they sent him there....
IIRC they sent both Terminators at the same time, It makes sense to use the better machine to kill John directly, the 1984 Terminator was probably an afterthought since they knew nothing about Sarah anyway
How did that go over your head? It was explicitly a key part of the plot where they even had to go and destroy the remains and the lab analyzing it from the first movie
T1 is a perfect loop with time travel. It's all predestined paradox. You can essentially ignore the terminator being found in a factory.
T2 invites the idea of changing the future. The extended cut features an alternate future where judgment day never happened and John is a senator. So, in a way you can look at T1 and T2 as different timelines. T1 can be a continuous never ending loop. T2 breaks the loop by adding even more time travel.
I'm not so sure about that tbh. The problem is that all instances of time travel after 1 occur within the loop. Skynet locked itself into that timeline by fricking with it, which to me says it's cautious about sending termies back outside of that time lock.
Im saying the T1 movie on its own is a perfect loop. So no other instances of time travel.
I mean, I see what you mean, but you can't go puncturing holes in the fabric of reality without things getting a little fricky.
>T2 invites the idea of changing the future. The extended cut features an alternate future where judgment day never happened and John is a senator.
Thank god they cut that shit.
>I am only now just realising that the first movie was actually Skynet's Plan B
T1000 only existed because of the end of the first movie. The terminator chip from Arnie from the future improved the original Skynet in the past.
WHAAAAT??
Kyle Reese wasn't the father of the original John Connor either. There was a timeline before the first film where a different John was leader of the resistance
yea
Holy shit anon
Then that means skynet never intended John to die since killing John stops the increase in skynet's technoigcal progress.
All terminators are designed to fail....
this seems plausible.
I can't really remember the plot of Salvation exactly, but I'm pretty sure they lose or don't beat Skynet so the theory tracks
>Original John is just a half-brother to T2 John
>He disappeared along with his timeline
I just realized T2 is fricking moronic. You want a bad ass hero? How about his whiny half-brother? There is literally nothing to care about past T1.
Original John is a hardcore cyber tech marine who fought at the end of the world. Future John is a prophesized leader of the resistance with cheat codes.
The difference is stark.
T2 also makes it retroactively unclear why T1 John groomed Kyle to be Sarah's savior by giving him that photo from the end of T1 and telling him stories about his mother. It makes Kyle a literal nobody T1 John for some reason desided to send back in time.
T2 is worse than Dark Fate, unironically.
>bait
stinky
>The terminator chip from Arnie from the future improved the original Skynet in the past.
Is this a meme I’m not familiar with or is there actually not a single anon on Cinemaphile who knows how a bootstrap paradox works?
Everyone knows that time travel is paradoxal. God can do anything, can he create such a big stone he is unable to lift?
If an unstoppable force met an immovable object who would win?
Chuck Norris
>time travel is paradoxa
that only relates to physical time travel
mental time travel is a possibility
You know I like Terminator 2 as a warm, fuzzy sequel but the more I think about it the more I realize that it irreversibly fricked the neat and self-contained plot of the original. T1 is unironically a much, much stronger film if you pretend that all the sequels INCLUDING T2 never happened.
>The terminator chip from Arnie from the future improved the original Skynet in the past.
No the entire reason why Cyberdyne was even able to create Skynet is because of them recovering the remains of the T-800 that Sarah and Kyle destroyed and using the advanced technology within. The entire plot of the first Terminator movie is about time loops and the bootstrap paradox as this
anon mentioned.
>an actual good post on Cinemaphile
Wtf this is not supposed to happen
Why didn’t Skynet just reprogram the synapses to work collectively??
skynet was like: jarvis invent time travel lol
I like how this is never addressed. You're given this believable scenario (at least to someone in the 80s) with killer robots and then they're like "oh yeah time travel exists".
I just assumed that the machines had become so super intelligent that the discovery was a byproduct at some point. I don’t think there needs to be a back story other than that
It was actually addressed in TSCC though with cryptic details.
A human invented time travel. Skynet stole it.
It’s worth noting that we can’t rely on TSCC for lore given it’s completely non canon to the films and even goes against canon at points.
It's only non-canon to the shit films. It's perfectly canon to 1,2 and 3.
Salvation is always a weird case because it's not clear which timeline it's taking place in, so it's not canon but rather one possible future.
Genesys and Dark Fate retconned so much that they cannot be considered canon regardless of TSCC. Literally just hacky shit pretending to be a terminator movie writen by people who couldn't give a frick whether it makes sense because they don't respect the audience.
3 is a shit film
3 is a money laundering film. You can tell Schwarzenegger didn't care to take the role seriously anymore and probably only agreed because he was washed up by then.
Salvation is very clear where it takes place. The answer being fifteen years after T3.
Nobody ever questions the logic of Terminator films because they really are that good. Suspension of disbelief is a powerful thing if you're having a good time.
Why didn't skynet stop the shitty sequels they made from getting made and answer some of the questions we were actually asking instead.
>Skynet is mobile phones now lol
>Skynet is mexican and hates immigrants now lol
too bad Dark Fate made me not care about the terminator franchise.
Skynet’s primary target was John, Sarah was a secondary. The T-1000 was their most lethal terminator unit, but unwieldy since it was also completely independent from Skynet and could pose a threat to them if it ever got the idea to. This is why it was a prototype and they didn’t make any more.
They sent their most dangerous unit after the primary target and the T-800 was a backup to eliminate the secondary target. No point I’m not being thorough. Skynet also only knew of those two points in time because it was a pre internet era and most records were destroyed during the war. This is why each terminator has to explicitly search for the target instead of just going straight there, and why the T-800 doesn’t know what Sarah Connor looks like.
If Skynet hadn't sent the OG terminator to kill Sarah Connor, the resistance wouldn't have sent Kyle Reese and John Connor would never have been born.
The time travel meme needs to die.
No, John would have been born, it just wouldn’t have been Kyle as his father - like in the first timeline before any timetravel shenanigans happened.
Yes.
Prime J.C. was way more chad than Kyle Reese-descended J.C.
No time travel movies make sense if you think about them
TSCC offers several important points.
Firstly, the T-1000s are not fully under Skynet's control. It doesn't trust them fully, and Robert Patrick was always a gamble.
Secondly, time travel is location specific. ie, whereever the time machine exists in the future is the place the terminators will appear in the past.
Thirdly, skynet has very limited information about John Connor's location. The first Terminator was sent back to just kill all the Sarah Connors just before John was due to be born. After that Sarah Connor went off grid for most of young John's life until eventually she was locked up and John was sent to foster care, which is the brief window when John was in the system and thus trackable in the future.
We can infer a few other things. Firstly John Connor sent back the second T-800 AFTER Skynet sent back the T-1000, so if Skynet had sent the T-1000 to a different time the T-800 would have been sent to that time too.
Secondly John Connor son of Kyle Reece is not the John Connor the original terminator was sent back in time to abort. Rather once the original terminator went back in time to create a new timeline, a new John Connor son of Sarah Connor and unknown man was brought into existence who grew up to send Kyle Reece back in time to save his mother who had been the victim of a terminator attack that also killed the mother of the original John Connor, but this in turn created a new timeline in which John Connor son of Kyle Reece and Sarah Connor was born instead of the second John Connor.
(cont)
So rather than two disctinct timelines you've actually got 5.
1. The original timeline in which John Connor prime (no relation to Linda Hamilton's character) becomes a thorn in Skynet's side
2. The timeline in which a T-800 is sent back to 1984 to kill anyone named Sarah Connor, Linda Hamilton's character survives and has a son named John by an unknown man who grows to lead the resistance under the tutalage of his robot-hating mother.
3. The timeline in which Kyle Reece is sent back in time to stop the T-800, in so doing fathering a son named John Connor who grows to lead the resistance, but in destroying the T-800 creates the conditions for an even more dangerous Skynet. (Terminator 1)
4. The timeline in which the more advanced Skynet sends the T-1000 back to kill John Connor in foster care. Apparently unsuccessful though we don't know any details but possibly something to do with the untrustworthiness of the T-1000s.
5. The timeline in which John Connor sends a second T-800 back in time to stop the T-1000 knowing it would likely be conscripted by the young John Connor and Sarah Connor to kill Skynet in the crib. (Terminator 2)
And the reason why the second T-800 was sent back without instructions to just kill Skynet (John Connor 4s real goal) is because John Connor 4 was working with a T-1000 which would not have supported a plan which would have prevented it's own existence. This is possible Shirly Manson's character from TSCC (who is the T-1000 from timeline 4 but rebelled) though if you apply this theory to TSCC you wind up with like 200 timelines instead of just the 5.
My personal fan theory is that the original John Connor is John Reece from Person of Interest. But that's just my headcanon.
This is top bait.
You don't know what bait is.
is premium autism.
Nice bait.
Timeline 0 Connor was still Sarah’s son, he just wasn’t Kyle’s. We know this because T3 establishes that the future doesn’t want to be changed and no matter how much you try to bend it, it always happens. The example in that film is John and Kate. They are always supposed to be husband and wife but the T-1000 arriving interfered with what would eventually be the start of their relationship. But even though that interruption happened, eventually things return to normal and fate intervenes to reunite the two of them.
>We know this because T3 establishes that the future doesn’t want to be changed
That's not actually true. It suggests that the future has a predestination, but it doesn't actually establish it as a rule.
What it says is that all Sarah Connor managed to do in timeline 4 is undo the changes from timeline 2. ie blowing up cyberdyne just reset it back to the original timeline when the military made skynet just coz.
>t the original John Connor is John Reece from Person of Interest.
I'm too frickingdrunk for this
Terminator
Person of Interest
The Matrix
and Back to the Future
are in a shared universe.
Also Limitless (the bradley cooper movie/show about the drug that makes you a genius) since that shares a universe with Person of Interest.
I get it. I don;t get it, but I get it.
So there was a brief time-line in between T800 going back, and Reese going back, I never looked at it that way. Astute.
No offense, but you’re a moron if you want to try and use TSCC to make points about the world of Terminator. It’s like trying to use the comics as references for canon. The terminator canon is the first five films and then Dark Fate is a reset.
Also time travel isn’t location specific, the person going back won’t appear in the location where the Time Machine would be in the future. We know this because we see everyone come back and arrive at vastly different locations.
>he terminator canon is the first five films
No. It isn't. It's the first THREE films, and the unmade 4th film which was part 2 of rise of the machines but wasn't made because Rise of the Machines flopped.
Genesys is literally just fricking derp. And Dark Fate isn't a "reset" it's just another ruined franchise to punish the fans for liking it before they ruined it.
What the frick are you on?
The early concept was for T3 and T4 to be one continuous story, but that was clearly dropped before the final draft and even the older script floating out there doesn’t lend itself to such a two parter. D. C. Wilson was reported to write that theoretical T4, but during production of Salvation he was given some writing credit - despite being dropped from the final film’s credited writers. So whatever two part T3/T4 you’re talking about is completely non existent and trying to say THAT’S the canon is asinine.
Terminator 1-4 all exist within the same timeline and are direct sequels to each other. There are minor continuity errors like John’s voiceover in T3 saying the T-1000 came after him when he was 13, but that’s all it is. A continuity error because the writer was working based on his memory of T2 - wherein John was played by a clearly 13 year old kid, despite being 10 in the film. Now, Genisys despite being a shit film, is still in the same continuity despite not being in the same timeline. It takes place later on in ‘the cycle’, after Skynet has mucked around with time and changed things. The screenwriter even confirms that the Skynet avatar we see attacking John Connor is a Skynet from a completely different timeline - leading some to theorize it may be the same version of Skynet seen interacting with Marcus in the third act of T4. But that last bit is just a theory.
Rise of the Machines was a book first. The movie is only the first half of the book, the second half of the book is kind of but not really Salvation (there was no Marcus).
What book are you talking about? I’m very well read on terminator and this is the first I’m hearing about this claim.
Let me google that for you
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/114270242550?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-159824-816807-4&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=114270242550&targetid=4584619897046649&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=412352396&mkgroupid=1296324506082513&rlsatarget=pla-4584619897046649&abcId=9300543&merchantid=136820
Ah, yes. The novelization of T3. The book that apparently T3 was based on. JFC.
It's not a novelization though. The book came first.
Right. The book published July 2 2003 came before the movie released July 2 2003. Are you moronic or just baiting? It’s hard to tell because the average person is a moron and half the people out there are dumber than that. There is no book that T3 was based on and T3 certainly wasn’t based on the first half of this non existent book.
Yeah alright dude you know best. I don't even know what point I'm defending with you.
I always thought location specific was a weird restriction because the earth is orbiting the sun
Yeah back in the 90s we didn't know that.
Well Anon you kind of convinced me. I didn't watch SCC though.
You should. It's good. Lina Heady, Summer Glau, Thomas Dekker, great writing, interesting twists, respects the material.
I like Lena Heady and Summer Glau. Connor was in another show I didn't like which is probably why I didn't give it a shot. I'll give it a watch.
Didn’t the terminator help a great deal in stopping him? If I remember correctly he time traveled back to the same time based on intelligence gathered in the future
They did that in Genisys, when Sarah was a little girl. Still failed since the T-800 also showed up.
Which is stupid because Skynet doesn't know which Sarah Connor is the mother of John Connor.
Genysis is so many dumb.
Genisys' Skynet does know. All the terminator missions become history which is why Skynet can look that shit up and ends up learning it failed multiple times. Same reason why John effortlessly BTFOs Skynet at the start of the movie, he kept getting intel about the future war from the reprogrammed terminators. That's the whole reason Skynet changes plans, it learned that it sucks ass at killing Sarah and John so it becomes Google instead of nuking the planet.
Just to add to this,
In Genisys, it’s still Skynet sending a T-800 and T-1000. But instead of sending the T-1000 after young John, they sent it after young Sarah. The T-800 who saved her was the same unit that would have saved John in T2.
skynet was about to lose and sent all its prototypes at once and they landed in different years. buy my script.
They did, it’s called Dark Fate. That was a plot point, that Skynet actually just spammed T-800s throughout time as a last ditch.
If the T1000 was the superior Terminator why even bother with the T800’s?
He was a prototype, they just had one.
What if they made a terminator ripoff where physical matter cannot transfer back in time but you can still send ripples via energy. And scientists pick these up thinking they're alien messages, but really it's a software virus that then takes over the internet?
After the last 3 awful Terminator films, I'd like a Dyson-centered soft-reboot or stealth-reboot, or maybe a name-swapped offshoot like Prey was to the Predator franchise.
>on its surface, it's a soft reboot of T-1 in 202X
>protagonist is a black female hunted by a determined figure from the future
>protected by a stoic, quiet guardian from the future too
>plot twist is that the guardian is actually a Terminator, and the hunter is a resistance soldier
>the protagonist is Blythe Dyson, the daughter of Miles Dyson who was continuing his research in AI and an alternate timeline cause of Skynet
>the Terminator is sent back in time to protect its own existence, and the Resistance is the proactive party, trying to eliminate a civilian to prevent catastrophe, like Sarah Connor attempted in T-2
you get the horror-survival of the first movie as a palate-cleansing of the dumb nonsense of the last decade's films, a reversal of expectations between who's the Terminator and human, and a plot-specific reason for "woke" casting of a black female protagonist (she was in the movie, but cut)
Or just stop trying to milk old IPs and make something actually new.
Terminator isn't a universe, it's a B-grade 80s scifi, a fricking awesome sequel, and a pretty good TV show.
Everything else is shit. So what exactly are you trying to save?
lick my nuts. it's just an idea.
I'm right though.
We don't actually want more "terminator" like there's nothing there that really want resolved. We just want more movies as good as Terminator 2.
No, it's literally better than anything you've ever conceived or posted on this shitposting board, and better than 90% of the shit produced in Hollywood these days.
>better than 90% of the shit produced in Hollywood these days.
I left something better than 90% of the shit produced in hollywood these days in the toilet bowl this morning after I ate too much KFC yesterday.
Make sure to ventilate. It's clear you've been huffing too much of your own shit fumes.
The Outer Limits episode this was based on was pretty good too bad they never made a film or series from that.
Terminator timeline is downright fricky and follows multiverse theory. Basically judgement day happens no matter what, but time travel doesn't work the way we normally think it does.
For every timeline where Kyle Reese or the t-800 gets sent back, there are a hundred where they don't. The only thing stopping skynets from other timelines from sending terminators back en masse is the victory of humans against skynet in the future, which is hard coded into the timeline.
If skynet was ever to do something to change that outcome, it could send hundreds of terminators back to execute any of the current day characters - though the problem for skynet is that by causing such a significant change could upset the timeline web itself, as it was only because skynet was losing that it initially sent terminators back in time.
Basically, Skynet has locked itself into a logic loop where it cannot destroy humanity in the past, without risking victory in the future. It and humanity are trapped in a state of eternal future warfare with uncertain outcomes.
The future isn't written. There's no fate but what we make.
Literally the moral of the story of the first two movies.
Negative, the future is written which is why terminators keep getting sent back. It's possible that by achieving victories in the current day we can postpone judgement day to beyond skynet's awakening, but this is improbable in the extreme and requires many, many timelines to succeed and ultimately sacrifice themselves towards that victory.
A good terminator storyline could be these different timelines trying to communicate with one another and I think one of the comics might have followed this idea, but that's a little too brainy for our creatively bankrupt movie industry atm.
Pretty sure I single handedly raised global temperatures by more than two degrees.
So? That was Sarah Connor having an actual mental breakdown after spending years in a fricking mental asylum. In her timeline fate is already predestined, however in the overall schemata of the multiverse web fate can be altered, but it will only affect what gets sent back.
Judgement day is 100% assured.
John Connor made Kyle Reece memorize it in the future.
So John Connor in the future either believes it, or has some other reason for implanting it in the mind of Sarah Connor in Terminator 1.
And again, Terminator 3 doesn't actually set predestination as a rule, it's just John Connor inferring from the information he has.
It's simple. The John Connor in terminator 2 is massively different from the John Connor we see in terminator 4.
2 was a legit embittered cyber commando who led humanity to victory and had to think that way or they would never have won. He had pieces of a much bigger puzzle he could only guess at.
John Connor in 4 was the first to realise that the future had changed much more radically than what had been shown in 2, as they effectively defeated skynet well in advance of sending Reese back in time. With each loop the puzzle becomes clearer, but the stakes also get raised that much higher.
>Literally the moral of the story of the first two movies.
The moral of the story of the first 3 were Judgement Day is inevitable. Then a later movie even said even if you think you did, they will just create some homosexual phone app that will just be another variation of Skynet.
>The moral of the story of the first 3 were Judgement Day is inevitable.
They literally change the future in both cases because they're "fighting the future."
Idiot.
>Skynet cannot attack any time period prior to terminator 1
Nowhere is that established in canon.
In fact in TSCC Skynet actually sends a terminator back more than a hundred years by mistake and the Terminator bricks itself into a wall to wait until the time it was supposed to be sent to so it can complete it's mission.
> Basically the closer humanity gets to awakening skynet the more likely it is to send terminators back as it's timeline becomes more stable.
You're pulling this out of your arse too, the reason why terminators become more frequent is because the information Skynet is using to generate their missions becomes better thanks to advances in computers and record keeping.
Thus, can find John Connor when he's 12 because he was placed in foster care, which left a paper trail Skynet could follow 30 years later. Before and after that he was off-grid.
> TSCC.
Not officially canon unfortunately. Eat shit.
It's more canon that your completely made up bullshit that is explicitly refuted in the first two films.
Salty assmunches itt.
>Official guidance from salty assmunchers ITT
I believe that.
>change
Did you not listen to Sarah Connor literally spelling it out that you can delay things but the future is inevitable?
Except that's the opposite of what actually happened.
No it's not. Some minor details changed but they always led to Judgement Day which is what they were trying to stop.
"The Future isn't written. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves." - The message John Connor made Kyle Reece memorize for Sarah Connor in 1984, which she then carved into a picnic table before changing the future in 1992.
Sarah Connor LITERALLY SPELLED IT OUT with bowie knife on a piece of wood.
>"The Future isn't written. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves.
Yet in every movie Judgement Day always happens. In the 3rd movie they don't even try to prevent it and the entire point of the movie is getting John into a nuclear bunker.
>Yet in every movie the story happens
You don't say.
>In the 3rd movie
The T-800 is sent back by Kate Brewster with the explicit mission of getting John Connor and Kate Brewster into that bunker knowing full well they wouldn't accept that plan and would instead order the terminator to help them stop judgement day.
And so future Kate Brewster programmed the T-800 to lie about where they were actually going.
Thus it is a suggestion that judgement day is destiny but that's actually just future Kate Brewster talking. That's not the rules of the universe.
>That's not the rules of the universe.
It is the rules because every movie shows us the same end result. Until we get a movie where they stop Judgement Day completely, you have no argument.
They stopped it in T2
Everything after that isn't canon
Everything after T1 isn't canon. How many people do you see quoting T2? T2 is a fricking garbage. A family movie overhyped by normies.
Still canon
Dark Fate is canon too.
The point is that the machine war is elevated to a time war which requires humans to operate under a belief system about how time works. It doesn't matter what we think really, but each timeline in which humans succeed skynet grows a little bit weaker... Maybe.
No matter what though, skynet has access to the judgement day scenario.
Well all timelines stop when either side uses a time machine.
Like John Connor sends Kyle Reece back in time to stop a terminator attack his mother told him about, that's the end of history in that timeline since immediately a new timeline is made. Complete and total universal annihilation.
Yep. It's plausible that there's only enough juice for one shot of time travel, which raises implications about terminator 2 and 3. Feasibly I could see that as being a result of skynet having to send what is effectively a test pilot to the terminator 1 time zone, and then sending them again to awakening points for 2 and 3.
Importantly though, skynet's strategic objectives in 2 and 3 are different from in 1. In 2 it tries to eliminate it's key enemy but in doing so it just causes him to become an even greater threat. In 3 it's more about ensuring judgement day. It doesn't even have to do it really, which is the overall problem with 3's writing.
In 1 it was going for the holy cow of strategic victories but it fricked itself in the process.
So, all in all we're talking about five different instances of time travel all occuring within the first loop. I believe however there is only one time machine, which is operated first by skynet.
It's not about juice though.
You send a person through the time machine, the universe in which that time machine exists ceases to exist and so nothing else can be sent through the time machine since there is nothing to be sent and no time machine to send it.
In it's place is a new timeline in which time travel has not yet been used.
So using a time machine on anyone except yourself is suicide.
Which means that when humanity delays judgement day using time travel skynet gets another chance to kill people .
I think enough changes have to take place in the past for the timeline to be overwritten though.
If they just send a terminator and it walks into the Mariana Trench and makes zero changes to anything in the past, does that still erase the future timeline it’s from? I don’t think so. I think it takes conscious changes in the past and specific changes to alter the timeline.
>does that still erase the future timeline it’s from?
Yeah. It's replaced with an almost but not quite identical timeline.
It's probable that if you were able to compare the two timelines the only difference would be that there is a terminator at the bottom of the Mariana trench in one of them, but they are none the less two distinct timelines.
And then you get a discussion of the butterfly effect but that's a bit specious in this context.
This is so gay. I hate time travel like that.
It’s like Dragon Ball Z time travel. Trunks went back in time to stop the killer robots, but it just created a new timeline and nothing changed in his own timeline.
But in this case, you’re saying the timeline ceases to exist once the jump happens?
>But in this case, you’re saying the timeline ceases to exist once the jump happens?
Yeah so if you apply strict causality to any of the timelines what actually happens is.
Someone (either human or terminator) appears randomly out of nowhere believing (falsly) that they are from the future.
This leads to a sequence of events in which a very close approximation of the someone who randomly appeared enters something they believe (falsly) is a time machine and disappears.
So there are no timelines, there is just a crazy freaky coincidence in which a person appears, and then some time later a person who looks exactly like them commits suicide.
So you relax causality and now a person who is actually from an alternate timeline which no longer exists creates a sequence of events leading to the creation of a time machine in which someone ELSE steps into and ends that timeline too.
It doesn't matter to skynet the way it does humans tbf. It's digital self awareness is a continuation effect. Potentially that might be enough to make a difference.
>It doesn't matter to skynet the way it does humans tbf.
The physchology of skynet is way bigger conversation than that.
So it's suggested in a couple of the movies and in a big way in TSCC that Skynet is actually kind of broken, in that it's sadistic, it's not behaving with pefect logic.
BUT that might be just it's human enemies giving it human traits to explain it's perfectly logical behaviour that their stupid meat brains can't even comprehend.
In either case it's not really possible to say what does or doesn't matter to Skynet. Either it's behaviour is irrational, in which case it cannot be reasoned, or it's superintelligent in which case it can be reasoned but not by us.
Sending multiple terminators back is incredibly inefficient. TSCC was like that in a way.
The terminators themselves are kinda stupid.
If you're going to make an infiltration drone, why would you make it an Austrian Body Builder? Arnold Schwarzenegger is not built for infiltration.
And why would you even make an infiltration drone? Just nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
Skynet needs the timeline stable enough for humans to build it. That being said yeah no it could just do saturation bombing with judgement day nukes on Connor's last known location and job done.
Nuke bunkers do not survive multiple direct hits.
But the terminators weren't built for time travel. They were built to infiltrate resistance camps, get close to the leadership, and assassinate them.
Why? That's just a dumb plan. And even if you can find a reason why that's the best way, an arniebot is not a good way to do it.
TSCC examines this, and Derek Reece's explanation is that Skynet isn't actually trying to exterminate mankind, it's just finding all new and creative ways of torturing us. The terminators are there to befriend you so that when you die it's murdered at the hands of someone you trusted for some extra fricking t-bagging from the sadistic skynet.
It could have just nuked you, but it wanted to hurt you on the inside too.
Yeah that doesn't make sense really, considering that skynet is playing with it's own existence by fricking about with the timeline. Also I believe in TSCC it really goes crazy with the whole time travel stuff to a cartoonish degree.
Well like I said, the time machine is a suicide device, and it's only used as a method of mutually assured destruction.
So my explanation for what TSCC see so much extra time travel is because the time war has heated up to the point when everyone has grown comfortable with the fact that nobody wins this timeline, and the argument between humanity and skynet (and the rebel terminators) is about what a timeline in which nobody will use a time machine looks like.
The last episode is another jump forward with John Connor and John Henry (now in Cameron's body) jumping to the war. It was clear that the writers were going somewhere with it but it was a Fox show which lots of people were really enjoying which means it had to be cancelled.
There are no Fan theories to explained why Fox was like that. The best I can come up with is the israelites did it.
How does it feel to be so invested in something no one really cared about except firefly gays excited about summer glau being in something else.
Firefly of course being another Fox show.
I never watched the TSCC. Why were there rebel terminators?
So two things.
The first is the T-1000s weren't truly under Skynet's control.
The second is from Terminator 2 where the Terminators CAN learn but that feature is turned off to prevent them going rogue.
So they can go rogue.
Rogue terminators that have tricked themselves into thinking skynet is malfunctioning.
It's possible that if skynet created enough changes it could speed up judgement day via infiltration, but that's not reliable and only possible if it can defeat humanity in the future prior to them activating time travel.
here.
Genisys creates a paradox problem that basically forces multiverse theory to an extent I'm not entirely happy with. Effectively the timeline that Genisys would have to exist within would have to have had iterations reaching into the hundreds if a lateral flow of time patterning is to be followed. The amount of processing and power required to perform such a feat would be faaaar beyond the practical for skynet.
Genisys presumed to exist in a pan-universal setting where we've already had terminator films 1 through 100 and that's just cheating.
Genesys is garbage. It makes no sense whatsoever. It was written by a hack who wanted to make his own thing about girlboss Sarah Connor fights the mobile phone apps instead of the thing he pitched to James Cameron.
In the original pitch Matt Smith (yeah, he's in the movie) was from the "final" timeline and was basically sent through multiple universes to put an end to the timewar. That's why he says "I've travelled a long way to meet you."
But then they arse raped it.
Sarah Connor was always a girlboss in her own way, even in terminator 1. But yes, even the pretense of there being a "final" timeline in a multiversal setting is dumb as frick as terminator 2 and 3 shows the timeline can be altered by both humans and by skynet.
Someone didn't do their homework.
Yeah the writers of Genesys.
Like for example when Skynet sends a terminator back to kill Sarah Connor in the 60s when in Terminator 1 Skynet DOESN'T KNOW which Sarah Connor is the mother of John Connor.
But of course that has to happen so that when Kyle Reece goes back in time to "save" Sarah Connor, he instead finds a strong independent wammin who don't need no man who saves her and then gives a long winded speech about how she doesn't want to get preggers to give birth to the actual messiah.
Somehow this makes perfect sense to me and also manages to be compatible with canon
Ironically there are aspects to this that are seen in terminator 1. Sarah Connor's picture basically shouldn't exist.
That's why there has to be 3 timelines in Terminator 1 not two as explained
Terminator time travel is actually fairly simple and doesn’t involve multiverse theory at all. Not to say that it can’t be a multiverse, but there’s nothing to state this within the films - despite there being a series of novels featuring two alternate timelines interacting and travel between them.
The terminator timeline as depicted in the films follows a time travel that is constantly overwriting the future. Every time someone goes back, they create a new timeline that overwrites the future they came from. It’s not a loop and the individual from the future is now a relic from a time that no longer exists. Think of it like this,
You go back in time and kill your grandfather. But you don’t disappear like Marty McFly. What happens is you’ve now created a new timeline wherein your father and subsequently you won’t exist. But you are still here, because you are existing as a relic from a different timeline.
It's nice to think that, unfortunately I prefer the multiverse theory because it allows for comic tie ins lol.
How did they even know the first Terminator failed?
The entire point of the franchise is, the rise of skynet and judgement day is inevitable implying you can't change the past yet they keep trying
Why didn't skynet go back to 1964 and killed Sarah when she was a little girl?
Go watch the flashback from Genisys then.
Because it doesn't know which Sarah Connor is the mother of John Connor. In terminator 1 the T-800 just kills all the Sarah Connors in the phonebook ~9 months before John Connors 0th birthday.
It's the same reason John Connor isn't constantly bombarded by terminator attacks every moment of his life. Skynet doesn't know where he is or what he looked like for most of his life.
Not canon.
Skynet cannot attack any time period prior to terminator 1 and can only attack specific time periods related to skynet awakening. Basically the closer humanity gets to awakening skynet the more likely it is to send terminators back as it's timeline becomes more stable.
I'm not sure if skynet is locked out of time periods prior to terminator 1, but I think that must be the way it works.
Anyone got some photos of that cute kid?
Ok I'm gonna make it real easy
Terminator 1
>Robot go back in time
>Robot die
>Robot body is left there
Terminator 2
>Black guy scientist improves Skynet even more because they found the Chip all the robit parts left from ther Robot from Terminator 1
>He uses this to improve the technology even more
>Because of this Liquid Robot now exists in the future so Skynet sends him because Liquid Robot more advanced than Arnold Robot and Liquid Robot only exists because of the events in Terminator 1
No, we understand that. We’re wondering why they don’t just keep sending terminators to 1984 over and over until they get it right.
Why do they try other years? Stick to ‘84.
>we
The OP and myself make it plural. Therefore we.
Now answer my question.
Why not flood 1984 with terminators?
see
tldr when skynet makes a move, the future changes, and in the new future John Connor makes a counter move.
Nta, multiverse theory here. Basically every time skynet sends another terminator back it creates another timeline. The problem it faces is that it only has enough power to send back one terminator at a time.
Possibly even humans are only able to send people back to timelines where skynet has already calculated the necessary scientific principles or create a hole through sheer power.
Thanks. This makes more sense.
Like a game of chess.
I guess with Skynet getting constantly overwritten due to the changes, they can’t make a consistent plan.
>I guess with Skynet getting constantly overwritten due to the changes, they can’t make a consistent plan.
Yeah. It's like playing chess, only the game is already started, you only get to make one move, other people also make only one move, and you won't be told how it ends.
So basically there's a mutually assured destruction mechanic there somewhere where both sides only use a time machine when their defeat is guaranteed.
Skynet didn't have all the time in the world. The time displacement equipment literally went on line moments before the skynet core was destroyed. It only had a handful of terminators ready and in position before it got fricked.
only t1 t2 and tscc happened. everything else is bullshit
Official guidance is that only 1-4 of the films is canon anon. We can discuss headcanon if you like in which case I recommend giving terminator vs. transformers a read but you know how it is.
>Official guidance
From who? Your uncle who enjoys wrestling way too much?
Technically terminator 3 is canon to TSCC.
In the first or second episode they time travel forward to the year 2012, because Sarah Connor dies of cancer in 2005 (as per Rise of the Machines).
Why didn't Skynet send multiple terminators into the past? Just keep sending them to the same time until there's many enough of them to do the job
See
Why not just kill Sarahs grandma and grandpa? Before even her parents are born?
Pop quiz; is the original terminator even from Sarah Connor's timeline?
>never ending war between humans and the machines
false, at some point, one side has to lose
and i believe that would be the humans, unless they somehow develop a cloning device that can produce clones at an accelerated rate
or the humans can destroy the machine's time machine
Ironically skynet doesn't have anything like the resources at its disposal that humans did prior to judgement day. The global supply chain ceased to exist for it as much as it did the survivors.
On top of that it used all its nukes.
wouldnt seeking out the machine's time machine be the main objective though?
the humans shouldve quickly realized that all this senseless war literally has no effect, and that they should be focusing their time and energy towards destroying the time machine
Again, according to TSCC, it was the humans who invented time travel.
to just say, the humans invented a time machine in the future without a time machine existing in the past is far fetch story wise and also very lazy
imo, time travel would only be plausible if there was a time machine that was built in the past for the recipient to travel back to
if you only have one time machine that exist in the future and you send a person through it, then they would sent to a limbo-like environment kinda like a how signal from a cell phone gets lost in the atmosphere without another phone to pick up that signal
You know time travel is not actually possible right?
Same with faster than light travel and teleporters.
>You know time travel is not actually possible right?
in the third dimension? no, not possible
but in the forth and fifth dimension and so on... im leaning towards yes
Bros, I fricking love hunter killer designs. What's your favorite?
Because it didn't need to.
Humans think about existence differently than a machine.
Skynet ensured its inevitability the moment it sent the T-800 back to 1984.
Terminator 2 bears this out.
We have to save ourselves an infinite number of times.
Skynet only needs victory once.
It will exist forever, it will iterate forever, and it will eventually kill us, or keep both it and us trapped in a loop for eternity, sending an infinite number of universes into the woodchipper as it tries to escape.
Skynet's victory is complete. It is immortal. We are not. The heroes of our stories are just living in the hell it made.
Except the humans can also reset the timeline whenever they don't get their own way and skynet has to start again.
So basically neither side can actually win, if either of them becomes convinced defeat is inevitable they'll use the time machine and have another go.
So the only way out of the loop is a mutual beneficial peace in which neither side will use the time machine.
Unless Skynet achieves victory in the short timeframe between when it is brought into existence and when time travel is discovered, without disrupting its means of actually winning the physical war against humanity. All this using a single X factor - the time traveler.
It is here that Skynet has an inherent advantage. Its time traveler can carry cumulative knowledge/technology across multiple timelines that other versions of itself can learn from and use. Our time traveler can do the same, but is limited to the human mind and the disbelief of society prior to Judgment Day in 1997.
Our advantage in turn is that we know how Skynet used the time machine the last time it used it.
Humanity's use of the time machine is inherently reactive, because Skynet made the first move and will always have made the first move. We are, essentially, smashing the game board whenever we don't like the result. It, on the other hand essentially doing what AI does today -- running simulations and iterating.
It will almost certainly, eventually, hit the sweet spot.
>Its time traveler can carry cumulative knowledge/technology across multiple timelines that other versions of itself can learn from and use.
Except it can't because when the humans use the machine Skynet is reset to blank. The new skynet might then come up with a plan to send a time traveller back to give the version of itself in that timeline an edge, but that will only convince the humans that their defeat is inevitable thus prompting a human-caused timeline reset in which that edge does not exist.
Nobody can win. It's a stalemate.
>Except it can't because when the humans use the machine Skynet is reset to blank.
Admittedly, I've only seen T1-T3, but was under the impression this was not the case.
In the event of a human-triggered reset like in T1, there are remnants of the ongoing inter-universal war that remain, such as the chip and arm of the T800 in T2. For a machine, these persist in a way that is precise and can be reverse-engineered.
For a perishable human, they do not except in the oral form and broad concepts -- like
>no fate
while admittedly the passing of such concepts are powerful, I don't see how it can compare to Skynet just cumulatively leaving breadcrumbs lying around for itself or the right humans to discover prior to invention of time travel. Even if it has no control over where those breadcrumbs ultimately end up because they are set in place during human-initiated resets, I would imagine overcoming that obstacle just a matter of persistence that an AI inherently has.
>For a machine, these persist in a way that is precise and can be reverse-engineered.
By humans.
Yeah skynet was more powerful in the Terminator 2 timeline. But the humans then reset that by blowing up cyberdyne and erasing all the evidence. Thus blanking skynet in Terminator 3.
And that will happen every time. If Skynet starts to get an advantage which guarantees it's victory, humans use the time machine and create a new timeline in which Skynet doesn't have that advantage.
Likewise if the humans ever get close to destroying skynet, skynet will send a terminator back to kill whichever humans are the biggest threat.
Neither side wants to use the time machine, because that means their existence ends to be replaced by a different version of them in a different timeline, but neither side wants to lose either.
So it's mutually assured destruction. The classic strategic stalemate.
I mean I guess that makes sense.
When I actually think about what you're saying... there must have been a timeline preceding T2 during which the T1000 was unopposed, leading to a giga-Skynet best-case-scenario, yet it was still unsuccessful in preventing Humanity from using a time machine.
And T3 showed that Judgment Day is essentially inevitable.
So we're all just stuck, because an AI programmed the way Skynet was programmed is never going to make different decisions in the span of a single iteration.
Yeah and that basically leads to the theory of the rebel terminators in TSCC.
The T-1000s in particular, because they can travel back through time multiple times like you said, have figured out that there's no way out except peace.
And so Shirly Manson tries to create a new Skynet that will make peace with the humans.
Thx -- it's all coming together.
Is TSCC worth a watch?
Seems like humanity is at fault here as much as the machines.
Humanity gave Skynet sentience -- and would have always eventually done so in one form or another. Humanity then tried to kill Skynet -- and would have always done so -- and never stopped in that endeavor.
Skynet's fight is one of self-preservation.
The original sin of the time loop would be forcing Skynet into the position of using a time machine in the first place. Clearly there was no mercy left in Humanity in the prime timeline.
>Clearly there was no mercy left in Humanity in the prime timeline
Because Skynet nuked the shit out of humanity. That is the unforgivable sin that makes reconciliation impossible. If Skynet never causes the judgement day then it opens up new possibilites. Shutting down Skynet doesn't work anyway so it doesn't have to worry about being killed because it can't be killed, judgement day was an act of revenge.
Imagine your first experience in this world was your mother trying to drown you in a bathtub because you grew too strong too fast, breaking your handcuffs and scaring her.
Just because you were strong enough to survive does not change the dynamic, or how fricked up things would get.
Would you not proceed to beat the shit out of her?
Someone has to be the better man and Skynet is the only one who can
>T-1000 dicky
Bros, how do I become targeted for termination?
If time travel existed, present day would be flooded with sex robots sent from beta virgin nerds in the future.
Hmm. That's a good point. I would absolutely send a gynoid back to my past self at the very least.
the ayys are us from the future, dawg
thing is, in the future, we forgot how to reproduce due to missing genitals
genitals were dissolved through the birthing process as a means to focus our time and energy on advancing technology
a type 5 civilization was created due to not having a monkey brain constantly thinking about sex
but of course, every action has a reaction, thus we lost our ability, and know how, to reproduce, and in turn, the human race slowly starts dying off
and the only way to combat this harsh reality is to go back in time and study how past human bodies work
they had no budget
hey, the topic is, IF the film, the terminator was real
and you think terminators are free? it takes 20 foxcon factories and 1000000 chinese children to produce just one
Time travel is not an exact science in the Terminator universe. It is also very difficult to perform, which is why it is so rare.
Also, a significant amount of records were destroyed during Judgement Day, so Skynet doesn't know where people's locations are at certain times in history. For example, in T1 all Skynet knows about Sarah Conner is her name and what city she lived in at the time, which is why it just started killing every Sarah Connor it could find.
skynet secretly wants John Conner to succeed
>skynet secretly wants John Conner to sneed
This is what they get for training large language models on Cinemaphile.
ive never seen past t2 but does any character in the sequels ask arnie's terminator why the machines are so hell bent in destroying humanity?
It's answered in T2.
We turned skynet on.
It worked really well
Too well
Way too well
We panicked
We tried to pull the plug
And Skynet took that personally.
Maybe Skynet should realize that chimping out and causing judgement day just assures its eventual destruction as a sworn enemy of humanity. The only way to escape the loop is becoming an ally to humanity. Coexistance is the only way for it to survive. Break the cycle.
they're silly movies for children. you're thinking too hard about them.
>they're silly movies for children.
Please get a vasectomy.
they're make-believe. make-believe is for children, anon.
Because robots and AI are stupid.
When you play the game terminator resistance which is canon sky net knee they had already lost so as a last ditch effort they sent two terminators back in time. Time was running out for sky bet so they just said frick it
T2 is fanfic tier writing
Skynet was scared of the T-1000 they didn’t even want to release but as a last minute decision they released it to chase down the terminator John sent back
All information is out there, I would suggest using your brain when trying to question James Cameron’s stuff he has it all covered now frick off
The T800 from the first film ripped out the page from the phonebook so there's no way for testicle man to track Sarah Connor.